Cider Chat

Charles Martell has spent decades preserving some of England's most remarkable cider and perry traditions — often with a healthy dose of luck along the way.

In this episode, Charles joins Cider Chat from Gloucestershire to talk about the story behind Stinking Bishop cheese and its Wallace & Gromit fame, rare and disappearing perry pears such as Dymock Red, his historic distillery, Gloucester cattle, and a lifetime rooted in the orchards and traditions of the region.

00:00 Charles Martell on Quality of Life 00:30 Welcome to Cider Chat 02:05 Out and About in Ciderville 02:57 Filming Chronicle at New Salem's Museum Orchard 07:13 Totally Cider Tours and a France Preview 07:54 Arriving at Hunts Court 08:56 How Charles Became a Farmer 10:16 Saving Rare Perry Pears 13:54 Small Farm, Low Volume, High Value 16:22 Books and Lost Fruit Varieties 21:55 The Curious Names of Perry Pears 23:48 Perry Versus Cider 25:37 Saving Rare Gloucester Cattle 30:12 Discovering the Farm's Distilling History 32:23 A Wood-Fired Copper Still 34:52 The Historic Distilling House 35:50 A Look Around the Courtyard 37:36 Tracing the Distilling House's Origins 38:12 Building the German-Made Still 39:38 The Stories Behind the Spirits' Names 40:30 Tasting Poireau 42:17 Pommeau and Barrel Aging 44:45 May Hill and the Surrounding Landscape 46:53 Stinking Bishop and Wallace and Gromit 49:07 Single and Double Gloucester Cheese 50:58 Cheese Pairings, Rinds, and Bacteria 57:20 Hulla Baloo Blue Cheese 58:36 A Turning Point for Perry 59:57 Growing Perry Pear Trees 01:02:59 Where to Buy and How to Visit 01:04:10 Final Reflections and Farewell

🍎 Get the full story, photos, links and more in the Episode 519 show notes at CiderChat.com.

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Learn More 🌐 Episode show notes: Charles Martell's Stinking Bishop, Lost Pears and Pure Luck 📰 eCiderNews: https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews/

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"I've never been on holiday in my life. I work 365 days a year. I enjoy what I do." — Denis Gwatkin

A few friends, some old cider-making equipment, and enough cider to share before heading to the pub. That was the plan. Then a stranger stopped at the farm gate, and Denis Gwatkin's homemade perry took an unexpected journey.

In Herefordshire's Golden Valley, Cider Chat host Ria Windcaller sits down with Denis at Gwatkin Cider Mill's Red Cow restaurant. What began as making cider for friends has grown into a destination for farmhouse cider, perry, food, camping, and music festivals.

Denis shares how it all came together and takes the long view on changing tastes. Strawberry cider helps pay the bills, but what happens to traditional bittersweet orchards when the market wants something different? Through it all runs a deep attachment to the farm and a clear enjoyment of the life he has built.

In This Cider Chat

•

The chance encounter with CAMRA's John Hallam that brought Denis's perry to a wider audience.

•

How customer requests helped turn a cider shop into a destination.

•

Changing tastes, fruit cider, and the future of bittersweet apple orchards.

•

Natural fermentation, oak barrels, and stainless steel.

•

How bag-in-box packaging and flash pasteurization changed the business.

•

Selling cider face to face at agricultural shows and food festivals.

•

Lessons from Denis's uncle, Brian Browning, on fruit and perry making.

•

Finding satisfaction in a life where farming, cider, and home are intertwined.

Ciders and Perry Discussed

Kingston Black, Foxwhelp, Yarlington Mill, Norman, Stoke Red, Silly Ewe, No Bull, and Squeal Pig perry. Denis also discusses strawberry cider and recalls that his early award-winning perry was probably made from Moorcroft pears.

Out and About in Ciderville

•

CiderFeast Boston: November 14, 2026, at the South Boston Lithuanian Citizens' Association. Ria will be attending and recording conversations. Going too? Connect on Instagram @ciderchatciderville.

•

Cider gains another competition platform as the Argentina Spirits Awards adds cider alongside mead and kombucha.

•

A preview of the French Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour planned for late April 2027, visiting Paris, Normandy, and Brittany, including a hike at Étretat.

•

A potential UK Totally Cider Tour in August 2027, with dinner at Gwatkin Cider Mill on the itinerary wish list.

To join the interest list for either tour, email info@ciderchat.com.

Contact Info for Gwatkin Cider

•

Website: Gwatkin Cider

•

Restaurant and camping: Gwatkin Red Cow

•

Location: Moorhampton Park Farm, Abbey Dore, Herefordshire, HR2 0AL, England

•

Telephone: +44 (0)1981 551906

•

Down on the Farm Festival

•

Golden Valley Vintage & Country Fair

Time Stamps

00:00 Cider as a Way of Life 00:23 Introducing Denis Gwatkin 01:15 Out and About in Ciderville 03:17 Cider Community and 2027 Tours 06:32 At Gwatkin Cider Mill with Denis 07:45 Farm Roots and Cider History 10:28 An Accidental Start and Award-Winning Perry 16:12 From Cider Shop to Destination 18:07 Festivals, Camping, and Farm Life 21:47 Changing Tastes and Fruit Cider 27:21 What Changing Tastes Mean for Orchards 29:15 Staying True to Traditional Cider 30:23 Natural Fermentation 32:34 Cider-Making Equipment 34:14 The Bag-in-Box Breakthrough 36:38 Selling Cider at Shows 37:55 Lessons from a Life in Cider 41:38 Exploring the Gwatkin Cider Range 42:33 A Passion for Perry 47:04 Orchards and Sourcing Fruit 48:17 Visiting Gwatkin and Final Thoughts 50:16 "Strange Apples" Outro Song

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🌐 Episode show notes: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/518-denis-gwatkin-cider/ 📰 eCiderNews: https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews

Support Cider Chat

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Jeffrey House and his wife Angela founded the California Cider Company in 1993 and built ACE Cider into a nationally distributed brand before selling the company in 2021. In this Cider Chat, Jeffrey gets into what it actually takes to build a cider business: distribution, margins, product development, persistence, scaling, knowing when to sell, and why making great cider is only part of building a valuable company.

Mentions in this Cider Chat - Boston CiderFeast – November 14, 2026 - French Cider Blossom Time Tour – April 24–May 1, 2027 – Find out about Totally Cider Tours: https://ciderchat.com/totally-cider-tours/ - eCiderNews – This week's story features the new Somerset cider box collaboration from Wilding Cider and Rawlins Family Cider- Wilding and Rawlins Team Up on Somerset Cider Box

Time Stamps

00:00 Cider Without Overthinking 02:13 The ACE Cider Origin Story 03:19 Out & About in Ciderville 06:05 Cider Events, Tours & News 09:31 Meet Jeffrey House 11:18 From Local Apples to National Scale 15:52 Building a Cider Company to Sell 18:58 Immigration & the Early Hustle 24:19 Finding Product Winners 30:34 The Reality of Cider Distribution 33:37 Building the Brand & Planning an Exit 37:21 Location, Costs & Business Decisions 38:32 Serendipity, Timing & Luck 39:58 The Entrepreneurial Mindset 41:58 Building a Product vs. Building a Business 42:29 The Pareto Principle & Persistence 44:41 Scaling, Cash Flow & Margins 46:38 Standing Out with Fruit Ciders 47:35 Selling ACE Cider 52:26 The Reality of Corporate Ownership 54:11 How the Cider Market Has Evolved 56:07 The Origins of ACE Fruit Ciders 58:36 Jeffrey House on Cider's Future 01:00:43 The Cider King 01:01:52 Ria's Wrap & Totally Cider Tour 01:03:17 Closing Song

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🌐 Episode show notes: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/517-what-made-ace-cider-brand-worth-40-million/ 📰 eCiderNews: https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews

Support Cider Chat

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What does time taste like?

Join Cider Chat MC Ria on the 2026 Totally Cider Tour through Normandy, Domfrontais and Brittany, where cider, poiré, Pommeau and Calvados become a way of experiencing place, people and time.

The journey begins with a reconnaissance adventure near Étretat and continues into orchards, cellars and conversations with makers, including Jacques Perritaz of Cidrerie du Vulcain and Eric Bordelet. At Eric's table, a tasting across vintages reveals how cider, poiré and Cormé continue to transform in the bottle.

Then hear directly from the people who traveled on the tour about what surprised them, what they learned and what they'll remember from cider country in France.

Mentions in This Cider Chat

Totally Cider Tours

Bent Ladder Estate Ciders & Wine | Episode 392

Giard | 13 Generations Making Cider, FR | Episode 177

France Blossom Time Tour 2027 Interested in joining the next Totally Cider Tour to France? Email info@ciderchat.com

Timestamps

Note: Cider Chat uses dynamic ad insertion. Depending on the ads served, actual playback times may vary slightly from the timestamps below.

00:00 Lost After Dark in Normandy

01:16 Finding the Trail Back

03:02 Welcome to Cider Chat

04:07 Reconnaissance in Étretat

08:25 La Mer à Boire with Jean-François Bougeant

10:05 An Unexpected Normandy Dinner

10:50 The Totally Cider Tour Begins

12:46 Meeting Jacques Perritaz

14:06 Learning to Work with Tannins

14:52 Drought, Deep Soil and Healthy Trees

16:04 Tasting Time with Eric Bordelet

18:43 Argelette Across the Years

23:27 Cormé and Transformation in the Bottle

25:48 Ted's France Tour Reflections

33:16 The Magic of Low-ABV Cider and Poiré

33:43 Carla and Galen's Tour Reflections

34:46 What the Calvados Cellar Teaches You

37:03 Learning from the Distillers

38:53 Discovering the Range of Calvados

40:28 Joyce and Andy's Tour Reflections

42:21 Discovering Poiré and French Towns

44:41 Discovering Pommeau and Calvados

46:58 Martin on Aged Perry and Access

54:57 France Tour Wrap and Blossom Time 2027

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🌐 Episode show notes: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/516-totally-cider-tour-france/

📰 eCiderNews: https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews

Support Cider Chat

If you enjoy independent cider journalism and conversations with cider makers from around the world, consider supporting Cider Chat.

🍎 Become a Patron or Commercial Partner: https://www.patreon.com/c/ciderchat

Stay Connected

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What happens when a cider region has the apples, but not centuries of rules telling cidermakers what cider is supposed to be?

Recorded at CiderCon 2026 in Providence, Rhode Island, this World of Cider session brings together three Latvian cider makers and Asnāte Ziemele of Baltic Cider.

The Baltics have a long apple-growing heritage, but their modern cider movement is remarkably young. That gives today's makers room to experiment with local heirloom apples, wild seedlings, European cider varieties, pét-nat, still cider, wild fermentation and more as they develop their own Baltic cider identity.

In This Cider Chat Why Baltic cider is something of a blank slate Northern climate, orchards and local apple varieties Wild seedlings, crab apples and European cider varieties Pét-nat, still cider and wild fermentation Building consumer understanding of real cider Organic orchard practices and wildlife pressure Cider regulations, ABV and taxes Food pairings and where to find Baltic cider Building a Baltic cider identity without fixed traditions Featured Panel

Asnāte Ziemele | Baltic Cider

Jānis Matvejs | Abuls Cidery

Mārtiņš Knipšis | Pienjāņi Cidery

Māris Plūme | Mr. Plūme Cidery

Timestamps

00:00 Baltic Cider Blank Slate

01:16 Host Intro and Cider Tours

03:17 Why the Baltics Now

04:05 Meet the Baltic Cider Association

04:52 Origins After 1991

05:57 Climate and Growing Conditions

08:17 Orchards and Apple Types

10:22 Styles and Ingredients

11:39 Challenges and Marketing

12:07 Abuls Cidery Story

14:36 Abuls Orchard and Pét-Nat

16:30 Pienjāņi Orchard Journey

19:47 Conservative Dry Cider Approach

21:51 Mr. Plūme Philosophy

26:17 Wild Fermentation Method

28:01 Audience Q&A and Sweet Cider

28:45 Real Cider Education

29:59 Selling Sweet and Natural Cider

30:16 Restaurants Build Awareness

31:09 Organic Orchard Practices

33:03 Wild Apples and Bitters

33:46 ABV Limits and Taxes

35:37 Building a Baltic Cider Identity

36:49 Apples in Latvian Life

38:54 Food Pairings with Cider

40:01 Where to Drink Baltic Cider

41:17 Market Niches and Bottles

43:11 Baltic Cider Association Communication

44:28 Regulations and Labeling

47:20 Fences and Wildlife Pressure

47:57 Grafting and Tree Sourcing

48:58 Closing Thanks and Signoff

Listen & Subscribe

🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cider-chat/id1054230417

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/25z9PBrbF5ERsv8X0SDWIV

▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CiderChat

Learn More

Cider Chat: https://ciderchat.com/

eCiderNews: https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews/

Support Cider Chat

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Lees are more than sediment at the bottom of a tank. Recorded at CiderCon 2026 in Providence, Rhode Island, cidermaker and fermentation consultant Ryan Monkman explores how cidermakers can put lees to work throughout fermentation, élevage, and bottling.

Ryan digs into fine and gross lees, cracking lees, bâtonnage, autolysis, oxygen management, fault correction, bottle conditioning, and practical ways to decide which lees to keep and which to let go.

Timestamps

00:00 Cider Is Sensory

02:25 News From Ciderville

04:29 Back To CiderCon

05:29 Fine, Gross And Cracked Lees

07:58 Passive To Active Uses

09:29 Harvesting And Storing Lees

13:16 Cracking Lees

18:53 Why Crack Fresh Lees

21:46 Using Lees In Fermentation

26:15 Bâtonnage And Élevage

28:30 Using Lees To Correct Faults

31:10 Bottling, Canning And Kegging

35:22 Dosing Lees For Ancestral Cider

36:41 Traditional Method And Sur Lie

38:07 What To Watch For With Lees

39:55 Bâtonnage Timing And Technique

41:55 Bâtonnage And Oxygen

43:25 Cracked Lees And Autolysis

44:26 Building Three Cider Styles

47:03 Élevage Strategies

48:17 Bottling The Three Ciders

49:35 Lees, Yeast And Terroir

50:54 Ryan Monkman Wrap Up

Mentions in This Cider Chat

• eCiderNews

• Cider led the August Beer Purchasers Index for the first time, coming in ahead of imports.
• Michigan's important fall cider season
• An update to the remembrance of cider author and advocate Ben Watson, with additional reflections from his longtime friend Annie Card.
• Subscribe to eCiderNews for the latest cider news and analysis.

• Totally Cider Tours | France

• Ria is heading back to France with Totally Cider Tours for an autumn journey through French cider country, with more stories from the orchards and cideries coming to Cider Chat.

• CiderFeast Brooklyn

• CiderFeast returns to Brooklyn on October 3, bringing cider makers and cider fans together in New York City.

Listen & Subscribe

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🎧 Spotify: Spotify

▶️ YouTube: YouTube

Learn More

🌐 Episode show notes: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/514-doing-more-with-lees/

📰 eCiderNews: eCiderNews

Support Cider Chat

If you enjoy independent cider journalism and conversations with cider makers from around the world, consider supporting Cider Chat.

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What happens when a cidermaker decides to do less and give cider more time?

Spencer Morris of Sowams Cider Works in Warren, Rhode Island, makes cider with more than 70 apple varieties, old mechanical rack-and-cloth presses, glass demijohns and a remarkably hands-off approach.

Explore still cider, single-varietal apples, long aging on the lees, native fermentation, and why some Sowams ciders aren't released until they are three or four years old.

Timestamps *]:pointer-events-auto R6Vx5W_threadScrollVars scroll-mb-[calc(var(--scroll-root-safe-area-inset-bottom,0px)+var(--thread-response-height))] scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id="f4dc7e49-9de6-4914-ad45-cd7bb6b521f7" data-turn-id-container="f4dc7e49-9de6-4914-ad45-cd7bb6b521f7" data-testid="conversation-turn-10" data-turn="assistant">

00:00 Doing Less and Giving Cider Time

00:25 Meet the Guest

01:59 Single Varietal Cider

05:25 News from Ciderville

08:24 Fall Cider Festivals

10:29 Arriving in Rhode Island

12:55 Inside Sowams Cider Works

14:38 Spencer's Cider Story

18:38 Orchard and Rootstocks

22:37 Harvest Timing

24:55 Fermenting in Demijohns

31:59 No Sulfites, No Filtration

35:15 Aging Cider and Favorite Apples

37:07 Storing Apples Before Pressing

37:49 Concentrating the Fruit

38:30 Culling Apples and Sediment

40:53 Hands-Off Fermentation

42:07 Customers and the American Palate

46:15 Rhode Island Heritage Apples

48:53 Tasting the Orchard Blend

51:44 Serving Cider and Batch Numbers

55:03 Blending Apples at the Press

58:04 Tasting Rhode Island Greening

01:01:13 Weather and Vintage Variation

01:02:17 Visit Sowams and Final Thoughts

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🌐 Episode show notes: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/513-sowams-cider/

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Support Cider Chat

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Cider Chat MC Ria Windcaller reads her August eCiderNews editorial, Plant the Damn Apple Tree, reflecting on entrepreneurship, uncertainty, abundance, and what an apple tree might teach us about the time in between.

FROM THE EDITOR'S DESK: SUMMER 2026 NEWS CYCLE REFLECTIONS

Cideries close. People in our community are passing. The weather is never dull.

And somewhere in all of that is a question:

Knowing how uncertain the outcome is, would you choose otherwise?

READ THE ORIGINAL eCIDERNEWS EDITORIAL

Plant the Damn Apple Tree https://ciderchat.com/plant-the-damn-apple-tree/

EPISODE 512 TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Editorial Welcome 01:08 Maybe and the News 02:16 Why We Keep Trying 02:43 Cidery Closures Context 03:56 My Entrepreneur Ledger 05:45 Choosing Abundance 07:01 Plant the Apple Tree 07:52 Time and My Mom 08:48 Deal and Sign Off 09:50 Ciderville Outro Chant

🍎 Subscribe to eCiderNews

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Support Cider Chat

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Hungary may not have a centuries-old cider tradition like England or France, but that is exactly what makes its modern cider movement so exciting.

In this episode, Cider MC Ria Windcaller travels to Budapest to meet András Kovács and Marcell Lukatsi, founders of Bright Cider, who are helping shape what Hungarian cider can become. From traditional method sparkling cider and heirloom apple varieties to the newly formed Hungarian Cider Association and the country's first-ever Cider Salon, discover how a new generation of makers is defining a distinctly Hungarian cider identity.

Along the way, you'll hear how two friends turned a shared love of cider discovered on ski trips into one of Hungary's most innovative cideries, why forgotten local apple varieties matter, and how cider can open the door to unexpected discoveries in art, history, and culture.

Timestamps

00:00 Hungary Cider Surprise

01:14 Show Intro and Guests

02:40 Ciderville News Roundup

04:48 French Cider Tour Preview

06:48 Tea Room Interview Setup

10:27 Bright Cider Origin Story

12:14 Naming Bright Cider

13:52 Founders' Backgrounds

19:29 Pandemic Launch and Team

20:31 Traditional Method Focus

22:07 Hungary's Heirloom Apples

26:17 Rosie and Product Lineup

29:24 Vranja Quince Blend

29:58 Cider Lineup Overview

30:43 Ice Cider Cryo Method

31:30 Yeast Choices Explained

32:47 Stainless Steel and Eco Focus

35:50 Events and Finding Bright Cider

37:45 Hungarian Cider Association

39:10 Defining Cider in EU Law

43:03 Apples, Pears and Orchards

47:13 Future Plans in Etyek

50:48 Travel Reflections and Signoff

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🌐 Episode show notes: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/511-hungarian-cider-comes-of-age/ 📰 eCiderNews: https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews

Support Cider Chat

If you enjoy independent cider journalism and conversations with cider makers from around the world, consider supporting Cider Chat.

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Most cider makers dream of expanding their barrel program. Jason Lummen did the opposite.

In Episode 510, Ria Windcaller visits The People's Cider Company in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where Jason explains why he shifted from barrel-aged ciders to dry, sessionable ciders that keep people coming back for another round. Along the way, they discuss local apples, pub culture, changing American tastes, and what it means to build a cidery around community rather than complexity.

Time Stamps

• 00:00 Craft Palate Lightens
• 01:04 Meet Jason Lummen
• 02:06 Welcome to Cider Chat
• 04:02 GLINTCAP Reunion Story
• 06:43 Ciderville News Roundup
• 10:09 Totally Cider Tours
• 11:27 Sessionable Success Shift
• 12:21 Cheers with Pommeau
• 12:45 Fruit Ridge Apple Sourcing
• 15:13 Old Orchards vs. Trellis Systems
• 18:29 Cider Maker Origin Story
• 23:44 The Pressing "Aha!" Moment
• 25:49 Tiny Pub, Big Vibe
• 30:10 House Yeast and Wild Ferments
• 31:04 The Flavored Cider Debate
• 32:14 A No-Sulfites Philosophy
• 33:19 The Shift to Sessionable Cider
• 33:38 Brick Street Nightclub
• 35:32 Rethinking the Barrel Program
• 36:57 Why American Palates Are Changing
• 39:02 A Toast with Pommeau
• 39:45 The People's Cider Company Origins
• 42:24 The Raised Fist Logo
• 46:16 Winning Over New Cider Drinkers
• 50:44 COVID and the Patio Lifeline
• 52:28 Life as a Publican
• 53:28 The Best Part of the Job
• 56:37 Contact Info for The People's Cider Company
• 57:23 Closing Reflections

🍎 Find the full show notes for Episode 510 at CiderChat.com

Direct Link: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/510-the-peoples-cider-company/

🎙️ Listen wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

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Episode 509 takes us to the heart of Latvia to meet Dace and Māris Plūme, the husband-and-wife team behind Mr. Plūme, an award-winning orchard cidery known for both still and naturally sparkling ciders.

Their journey began with a chance taste of homemade cider that inspired Māris to train in Normandy and Austria before returning home to help shape Latvia's growing fine cider movement. Along the way, they explain why still cider deserves a place alongside sparkling cider, how heirloom apples define their work, the role of wild fermentation, and why patience is one of a cider maker's greatest tools.

Ria also shares the latest News from Out and About Ciderville, including updates on CiderCon 2027, eCiderNews, GLINTCAP, orchards around the world, and this fall's French Cider Tour.

Ciders tasted: • Semi-Sweet Still Cider • Pearadise Pet-Nat

Timestamps

Timestamps

- 00:00 – Still Cider Origins - 00:23 – Welcome to Cider Chat - 02:31 – Ciderville News Update - 05:42 – Orchards Around the World - 08:48 – Fires and Normandy - 10:54 – Meet Mr. Plūme - 11:55 – Latvia and Location - 13:17 – Māris' Cider Journey - 15:34 – Latvian Traditions - 17:24 – Heirloom Apple Abundance - 19:29 – Orchard and Grafting - 22:20 – Learning the Craft - 25:52 – Life as a Married Cidermaking Team - 28:01 – A Microcidery Philosophy - 29:35 – Tours and Education - 30:59 – Bottle Sizes and Sales - 31:52 – Small Bottles and Hops - 32:44 – Wild Fermentation - 33:27 – The Story Behind Their Still Cider - 34:44 – Reading Latvian Labels - 35:35 – A Latvian Toast - 35:52 – Tasting the Still Cider - 36:58 – Why Still Cider Matters - 39:33 – Awards and Philosophy - 41:44 – Yeast and Apple Blends - 43:20 – The Baltic Cider Scene - 47:35 – Stopping Fermentation Naturally - 48:56 – Aging and Storage Challenges - 52:23 – Pouring Pearadise Pet-Nat - 54:40 – Flavor Notes and No Sulfites - 59:11 – Where to Find Mr. Plūme - 1:00:40 – Thanks and Sign Off - 1:02:42 – Closing Outro: We Like Cider Round

The announcement that CiderCon 2027 will be co-located with the Craft Brewers Conference sparked one of the most active online discussions the cider community has seen in years.

In this episode of Cider Chat, ACA Board President Christine Walter joins host Ria Windcaller to discuss why the decision was made, the financial realities facing CiderCon, how the conference will operate alongside the Craft Brewers Conference, and what it means for the future of the American Cider Association.

The conversation also explores cider's identity, the role of orchard-based producers and commercial brands, the ACA's current leadership structure, and whether this partnership is intended to become a long-term model.

Whether you're planning to attend CiderCon 2027 or simply want to better understand the thinking behind one of the cider industry's biggest announcements, this episode offers an in-depth conversation on where things stand today.

Time Stamps

00:00 Why CiderCon Is Co-Locating

00:15 Meet Your Host

01:31 CiderCon 2027 Shakes Up Ciderville

03:29 News Out and About Ciderville

04:51 French Cider Tour Update

08:48 Setting Up the Conversation

10:46 The Future of the American Cider Association

12:41 Why the ACA Chose This Partnership

16:25 Survey Results and Other Options

21:25 Protecting Cider's Identity

21:47 How Co-Location Will Work

28:30 Why Now? Lessons From Providence

32:37 Concerns About Beer Culture

34:46 Safety, Inclusion, and Progress

38:15 Headlines, Keynotes, and Programming

40:36 What Cider Can Learn From Beer

43:42 Big Cider, Small Cider

47:43 Messaging, Tours, and Community

51:46 Leadership and Financial Challenges

56:22 National Conference or Regional Future?

1:01:12 A One-Year Experiment?

1:03:56 An Invitation to Show Up

1:07:08 Host Reflection

1:09:21 Until Next Time in Ciderville

🍎 Find the full show notes for Episode 508 at CiderChat.com

Direct Link: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/aca-cidercon-2027-questions/

🎙️ Listen wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

▶️ Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP. Your support helps keep Cider Chat on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

Become a patron at: https://patreon.com/ciderchat

Sometimes all it takes is one sip.

It happened to the founders of Woodfolk Cider, Martha Lowry and Alistair Whitehead, and it can happen to YOU! What began as a shared love of food, drink, and hospitality eventually led them to plant orchards, build a cidery, and welcome visitors to their 87-acre farm in Ontario, Canada.

Today, their orchard-based cidery sits among forests, rivers, rolling hills, and rows of young cider apple trees and the open invitation to expand your universe one glass at a time.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 The Cider Discovery Moment 00:52 Meet Woodfolk Cider 02:23 French Cider Tour Update 04:49 Secret Tap at Four Phantoms 07:53 eCiderNews Roundup 10:33 Welcome to Woodfolk's Orchard 12:18 The Farm and Family Origins 13:03 From Music and Brewing to Cider 15:09 Distilling, Spirits and Ontario Taxes 17:38 Building the Tasting Room Experience 18:17 The Woodfolk Cider Lineup 19:19 Introducing Tannic Cider to New Drinkers 21:17 The LCBO Challenge for Farm Cideries 24:14 Pressing Apples and Growing Orchards 26:51 Perry Pears, Climate and Terroir 29:22 Harvest-Based Fermentation 29:49 Barrel Aging and Neutral Oak 30:57 Learning From Happy Accidents 32:00 Yeast Choices and Orchard Diversity 33:48 Tasting Meadowland 34:54 Harvest Dates and Labeling Rules 36:23 Cider, Stewardship and Community 40:06 Modern Love Cider 40:39 Copper Moon and the Art of Blending 43:54 Food Pairings and the "Aha" Moment 46:33 Looking Five Years Ahead 48:17 Final Thoughts on Woodfolk Cider 49:55 French Cider Tour Reminder 51:04 Closing Theme Song

Contact info for Woodfolk Cider

• Website: https://www.woodfolkcider.com/

Located near Orillia, Ontario, approximately 90 minutes northwest of Toronto.

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• eCiderNews
• French Cider Tour 2026
• Cider Going Up Patreon

Find the full show notes for Episode 507 at CiderChat.com

Direct Link: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/507-woodfolk-cider-ontario/

Listen wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP.

Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

https://patreon.com/ciderchat

Richard Yi of Brooklyn Cider House isn't interested in making cider that appeals to everyone. He's interested in making cider with personality and if you've ever enjoyed hearing a cider maker tell the story behind the glass, you're going to enjoy this conversation.

In this epiosde, you'll hear how a young man who once imagined a future in engineering found his way into the family cider business. Richard shares the influence of his father, Peter Yi, the evolution of Brooklyn Cider House, and why embracing the unpredictability of fermentation has become central to his philosophy.

Along the way, we discuss:

• Growing into a family cider legacy • The transition from engineering to fermentation • Why cider doesn't need to taste the same every year • Orchard expression and vintage variation • The role of trust in fermentation • Brooklyn Cider House's approach to craft and authenticity • Building a cider culture that values difference over uniformity

Whether you're a cider maker, orchardist, or simply someone who enjoys discovering what makes a cider unique, Richard offers thoughtful insights into the balance between tradition, experimentation, and family.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Cider With Personality: Richard Yi's Approach to Craft Cider

01:34 Ciderville Standards Update

03:19 French Cider Tour 2026 Preview

04:50 Meet Richard Yi of Brooklyn Cider House

05:44 Family Roots, Wine, and the Path to Cider

07:23 Richard's Food Pairing Philosophy

09:31 Working Inside Brooklyn Cider House

10:43 Succession Planning and Learning the Craft

14:23 Building the New Paltz Farm and Orchard

17:28 Creating a Destination Tasting Room

18:27 Pizza, Barbecue, and Growing Crowds

21:10 Events and Community Building

23:15 Celebrating Korean Culture Through Cider

25:21 Craft Cider Versus Commodity Production

26:05 Native Yeast Fermentation and Cider Making

30:03 Wild Fermentation Versus Cultured Yeast

30:44 Small-Batch Ciders and Limited Releases

31:25 The Story Behind Nomad Cider

33:19 Nomad Cider Tasting Notes

35:24 Apples, Oak, and Barrel Aging

37:37 Sherry Cask-Aged Cider Explained

39:28 Lopez de Heredia and Winemaking Influence

42:15 Dance: A Basque-Inspired Fruit Co-Ferment

43:58 Dance Cider Tasting Notes and Technique

48:31 Innovation, Growth, and Consumer Trends

49:56 The Legacy of Peter Yi

51:17 Tandem Ciders Joins the CiderGoingUP Campaign

53:21 Cider Chat Summer Schedule and What's Next

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Tandem Cider in Michigan joing the #ciderGoingUp campaign
• 2026 French Cider Tour
• Ganzenhof Cider – Belgium
• eCiderNews

Find the full show notes for Episode 506 at CiderChat.com

Direct Link at: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/506-richard-yi/

Listen to wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP - by supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

#cidergoingup

There is a question that keeps coming up in cider, small business, and independent media:

Is this sustainable?

In this episode, Ria sits down with Adrian Luna, known as the Hard Cider Guy, for a conversation that goes well beyond cider. What starts as a discussion about content creation quickly turns into something deeper. Two practitioners, each with their own discipline, circling around the same hard truth: if you do not value your work, no one else will.

This is not about rejecting collaboration or generosity. It is about understanding the long-term cost of working for free, and what it takes to build something that lasts.

From orchard life to media strategy, from martial arts philosophy to the realities of burnout, this episode asks what it really means to take your role seriously, whether you are making cider or telling its story.

Timestamps

00:00 Is Cider Work Sustainable

01:28 Episode Theme and What's at Stake

02:12 Orchard Life and Spring Work

03:47 Planting, Grafting, and Growing Trees

07:02 French Cider Tour and Limited Spots

10:22 Meet Adrian Luna The Hard Cider Guy

11:20 The Cider Sensei Mindset

13:42 Finding Cider and Career Shift

15:51 Building the Hard Cider Guy Brand

17:21 From Scholarship to Cider Career

19:13 Too Many Hats Small Business Reality

20:53 Burnout in Cider and Media

24:20 Mission Statement Versus Making Money

26:03 Does Cider Need Independent Media

27:54 Should Creators Be Paid

29:32 Why You Should Not Work for Free

29:59 Martial Arts Discipline and Cider Ethics

30:50 Why Cider Media Needs Support

32:24 Finding Your Lane in Cider

33:16 Education and Audience Building

35:29 Hooks Versus Authentic Content

37:19 Discipline Through Adversity

42:33 Community Responsibility in Cider

48:15 Key Takeaways from the Conversation

49:12 Support Cider Chat and Keep It Going

50:12 Strange Apples Outro

Find the full show notes for Episode 505 at CiderChat.com Direct Link at: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/505-cider-senseis-media-value/

Listen wherever you get your podcasts and do not forget to subscribe so you never miss what is coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP by supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

What happens when breweries start making cider… not because they have to, but because they want to keep drinking beer?

That question kicks off episode 504 featuring Dan Kramer and Ben Anhalt of Element Brewing Company.

"Most breweries probably see cider as a way to let them continue making beer."

That line says a lot. And it opens the door to a bigger conversation.

Breweries adding cider isn't just about diversification. It's not just about gluten-free taps. And it's definitely not just about adding another SKU.

Something is shifting.

In this episode, we dig into: • Why breweries are turning to cider right now • What changing consumer habits have to do with it • How cider fits into a beer-first business model • What this trend means for independent cider makers

At Element, cider isn't an afterthought. It's part of a strategy to stay relevant in a changing market and a window into where craft beverages may be heading next.

Time Stamps 00:00 Why Breweries Are Making Cider 02:01 Season Travels Recap and Road Notes 04:44 Tours, Travel Updates, and France Signup 06:44 Meet Element Brewing Company 07:07 From Brewing to Distilling: The Origin Story 10:43 Barrels, Aging, and Apple Brandy 15:37 Sourcing Cider and Apples for Production 19:23 Why Breweries Are Adding Cider Now 23:53 Branding and the Element Two Concept 25:44 South Deerfield Expansion Plans 29:13 Cider Making Mindset 29:40 Tasting a Dry Botanical Cider 30:36 Yeast Choices and Sweetness Strategy 32:15 Balance First: Building Flavor 33:38 ABV, Structure, and Serving Glassware 34:59 Learning Curve and Cider Books 35:50 Apple Varieties, Terroir, and Flavor 38:33 Experimentation and Small Batch Cider 41:12 Personal Palates and Fridge Favorites 42:40 The Bigger Shift: Breweries Moving to Cider 46:00 Advice: Make Your Cider Stand Out 48:53 Apple Brandy Toast 49:40 Why Independent Cider Media Matters 51:54 Tom Oliver and 500 Episodes 53:00 #CiderGoingUp Campaign 53:45 Final Sign-Off

Find the full show notes for Episode 504 at https://ciderchat.com

Direct link: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/504-breweries-making-cider-element/

Mentions in this episode: Totally Cider Tour to France

Listen wherever you get your podcasts

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube

💛 Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP

Episode 503 takes you through England and Wales with audio snapshots from the UK Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour while exploring one big question: What is a proper cider?

Travel orchard roads through Somerset, Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, and Wales as tour guests share reflections on traditional cider, perry pears, wild fermentations, farmhouse hospitality, blossom-covered orchards, and the people keeping cider culture alive. From Ross on Wye and Oliver's Cider and Perry to Gwatkin Cider Mill and beyond, this episode captures the feeling of living inside cider country for a little while.

Time Stamps

00:00 Proper Cider Defined 01:42 Tour Craft and Group Flow 04:07 Season Updates and UK Teasers 07:22 Pouring Quince and Rolling Clips 08:50 Trevor's Tour Takeaways 13:25 George and Marla's Cidery Story 20:18 France vs UK Cider Culture 24:35 Tom's Cider Journey via Spirits 32:28 Richard and Elizabeth's Mountain Cidery 39:36 Tour Gratitude Recap 40:52 UK Apple Diversity Takeaway 41:39 Cider Kindergartner Graduates 44:19 Cheese Box and Stinking Bishop 45:55 Perry Pear Center Passion 46:43 Usk Castle Cider Picnic 47:27 Blossom Tour with Syracuse Duo 49:11 Far Orchard Mystique and Bees 50:22 Cask Cider Hospitality 53:03 Gwatkins Bag in Box Secrets 55:21 Why Guided Tours Work 59:16 Last Minute Traveler Gene 01:01:08 Farmhouse Cider and Beer Overlap 01:06:33 Proper Cider at Wilkins 01:10:24 Signing Off and Theme Song

Find the full show notes for Episode 503 at https://ciderchat.com

Direct Link: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/503-uk-blossom-time-proper-cider/

Listen wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP by supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

Travel with Cider Chat to Hungary for audio snapshots from the country's first Cider Salon, featuring makers from across Central and Eastern Europe, orchard visits, and a look at why Hungarian cider is a region to watch.

00:00 Budapest Travel Update

02:24 Cider Salon Plans

04:13 Litke Champagne Caves

06:34 Hungary Surprises and Lessons

09:44 Meet Andrew at St Matthias

11:35 Election Energy at Castle

16:13 Turul Bird and Innovation

18:53 Hungarian Cider Roots

22:23 Salon Maker Zuhatag

26:57 Asturian Sidra Reunion

30:06 Cidery Near Ukraine

31:27 Tom Oliver in Pécs

31:44 Why Hungary Matters

34:15 Cider Salon Worldwide

35:20 Natural Wines at Balaton

36:02 First Palinka Tasting

37:19 Teachers Cider Table

38:13 Czech Cidérka Spotlight

40:24 Dark Cider Origins

43:24 Bosnia Bohorina Ciders

45:43 Serbian Cider Shop

47:52 Cider Has No Borders

48:51 Orchard Visit and Paprika

50:36 Quince and Wild Ferments

52:47 Next Hungary Salon and UK Tour

54:12 Strange Apples Outro Song

Find the full show notes for Episode 502 at CiderChat.com Direct Link: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/502-hungary-uncorked/

Listen wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP by supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

Welcome to Season 11 of Cider Chat.

After 500 episodes exploring how cider is made, Episode 501 brings it back to the glass—how to taste cider in a way that actually feels natural.

No jargon. No pressure. Just a simple, sensory approach:

• What do you smell?
• What do you see?
• What do you feel?
• Do you want another sip?

Includes a quick mention of Great Lakes International Cider and Perry Competition and why judging is very different from everyday drinking.

00:00 Pommeau Snowy Epiphany

01:26 Stop Overexplaining Cider

02:59 Taste With Feelings

04:05 Season 11 Kickoff

04:34 Tours And Community News

05:52 Glintcap And Judging

09:38 Pour A Glass Together

10:13 Aroma First Impressions

11:58 Look And Notice

13:34 First Sip Reaction

14:07 Structure And Mouthfeel

15:59 Memories Around The World

18:49 Finish And Another Sip

20:30 Buy A Second Bottle

22:32 Final Sip And Wrap

24:03 Strange Apples Outro

Find the full show notes for Episode 501 at CiderChat.com

Direct Link at: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/501-how-to-taste-cider/

Listen to wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP - by supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

In this milestone Episode 500, we return to a simple question that has come up again and again over the past ten seasons of Cider Chat: How is cider made?

After hundreds of conversations with cider makers, orchardists, historians, and fermentation experts around the world, this episode brings together the core lessons shared across 500 episodes - from orchard to bottle.

This episode walks through the cider making process step by step, including:

• Apples and cider apple varieties
• Milling and pressing
• Fermentation and yeast
• Malolactic fermentation
• Barrel aging and lees aging
• Blending
• Bottling and conditioning
• The science behind cider making

Throughout the episode, listeners are directed to past Cider Chat episodes where these topics are explored in depth with cider makers and experts from around the world.

Episode 500 also reflects on the growth of Cider Chat, the global cider community, and the people who make up Ciderville.

Thank you for listening, supporting, and being part of the journey to 500 episodes.

00:00 Welcome Episode 500

00:36 Season Voices Montage

01:51 Why Cider Chat

06:12 Cider Back To Basics

08:07 Orchard And Apples

11:10 Apple Stories And Resources

13:11 Milling And Pressing

16:57 Fermentation Essentials

18:27 Barrels And Oak Choices

19:30 Blending Art And Science

24:58 Time Bottling And Patience

25:43 Episode 500 Reflections

28:15 Thanks And Season Eleven

29:14 Outro And Bonus Banter

Find the full show notes for Episode 500 at CiderChat.com

Direct Link at: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/500-how-cider-is-made/

Listen to wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 Enjoy cider? Help keep #ciderGoingUP - by supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.