Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

The grid is one of the most important assets in any functioning energy system, transmitting electricity from where it's generated to where it's needed. In Ukraine, that challenge is enormous.

The country is very big, 1,300 kilometers from east to west, almost the distance from London to Rome. And the system is under constant attack from Russia, which targets the grid with everything from tiny drones to ballistic missiles.

In this fourth episode of our Ukraine Deep Dive, we're featuring two separate conversations with guests intimately familiar with the operations of that grid: Vitalii Zaichenko, the current chair and CEO of Ukrenergo, Ukraine's national grid operator, and Volodymyr Kudrytskyi, the former CEO of Ukrenergo from 2020 to 2024, and now co-founder of Negen.

Michael asks each of them how you protect a grid under constant attack. They also talk about the remarkable story of how Ukraine disconnected itself from the Russian grid and connected itself to the European grid in just three weeks at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, how to build more resilient energy systems, and why there's so much political scandal around the management of Ukrenergo and whether Ukraine could be better prepared for winter.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Russia’s attacks on Ukraine’s electricity grid
• Protecting substations from missiles and drones
• Ukraine’s rapid synchronisation with Europe
• The shift towards decentralised power generation
• Batteries balancing nuclear, solar and wind
• Financing and insuring energy projects in Ukraine
• The political controversy surrounding Ukrenergo’s leadership
• Lessons for global energy system resilience

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä.

Links:

• Vitalii Zaichenko’s bio: https://ua.energy/about_us/the-management/chairman-of-the-management-board/
• Volodymyr Kudrytskyi’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/volodymyr-kudrytskyi-45233161/
• Ukrenergo: https://ua.energy/en/
• Negen: https://www.negen.energy/en
• News articles covering Volodymyr’s arrest and bail:

• https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-ex-grid-operator-chief-detained-over-suspected-embezzlement-of-state-company-funds/
• https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2025-11-03/kudrytskyis-arrest-attempt-to-intimidate-representatives-state
• https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5380xwqjo

• Wärtsilä’s Håkan Agnevall on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYjGT55g5A&t=2s
• Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

• TSO: Transmission System Operator
• ENTSO-E: European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity
• DFI: Development Finance Institution
• IFI: International Financial Institution
• EBRD: European Bank for Reconstruction and Development

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 02:34 Ukraine’s Grid
• 08:56 The Need for Flexibility
• 11:18 Protecting the Grid
• 14:10 Repairing the Damage
• 19:58 Connecting to Europe
• 29:04 Ukrenergo Leadership Controversy
• 31:11 Decentralised Power
• 41:20 Kudrytskyi’s Dismissal
• 45:35 Preparing for Winter
• 47:03 Attracting Investment
• 50:54 The Role of Gas
• 53:34 Lessons for the World
• 56:05 Outro

Indonesia is facing a defining question: can it continue to grow its economy while making the shift towards a greener future? In this episode of Cleaning Up, guest host Marie Cheong speaks with Sandiaga Uno, chair of Mutuagung Lestari International and former Deputy Governor of Jakarta and Minister of Tourism, about Indonesia’s potential to become a major player in the green economy, and why the country’s natural resources, growing energy needs and entrepreneurial ecosystem could create significant opportunities for climate solutions and investment.

They explore whether green investing could be the next major growth opportunity, why the economics need to stack up, and how moving beyond the idea of a “green premium” towards “green discounts” could make sustainable business models more competitive. From the challenge of moving away from coal while meeting rising energy demand, to the potential of carbon credits and nature-based solutions, the conversation looks at what it will take to turn Indonesia’s green potential into real economic and environmental value and what investors should consider before taking the plunge.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Indonesia’s green growth potential
• Green investing’s next growth cycle
• Green premiums vs. green discounts
• Politics and the energy transition
• Moving beyond coal
• Carbon credits and nature-based solutions
• Turning green potential into profits
• What green investors should look for

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links

• Sandiaga Uno’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandiaga-salahuddin-uno-7803b642a/
• Saratoga: https://saratoga-investama.com/
• Sandiaga’s article for the Center for International Relations and Sustainable Development: https://cirsd.org/horizon-article/from-rebuilding-to-refining-2/
• Mutuagung Lestari Tbk (MUTU): https://mutucertification.com/en/
• Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com

Acronyms:

• MUTU: Mutuagung Lestari International
• JETP: Just Energy Transition Partnership
• SBY: Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, previous President of Indonesia

Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:51 About Indonesia
13:03 Saratoga’s Evolution
20:47 Green Discounts
26:18 Energy Transition
32:08 Rising Energy Demand
37:14 Growth and Policy
43:23 Carbon Credits
52:33 Nature-Based Solutions
55:21 Climate Investing
01:02:31 Outro

One of the biggest questions when it comes to the brutal and drawn-out Russia-Ukraine war is how it can be brought to an end, and crucially, could it ever be replaced by a stable peace? To understand this, we have to ask not just where we are now, but how we got here.

For episode 03 of our Deep Dive Ukraine, Michael Liebreich is in Kyiv with John E. Herbst, Senior Director of the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Centre and former US Ambassador to Ukraine, to explore the origins of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the chance for a stable peace, Russia and Ukraine’s vulnerabilities, and the role of NATO. They also examine the changing US approach to military support and negotiations, and the risks of a peace deal that forces Ukraine to surrender territory.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Why Putin invaded Ukraine
• Ukraine’s strikes on Russian oil infrastructure
• NATO expansion and Russian aggression
• The legacy of the Orange Revolution
• The cracks in Putin’s regime
• Trump’s shifting approach to peace
• The risks of territorial concessions
• Can Russia’s regime collapse?

Links:

• John E. Herbst’s bio: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/expert/john-e-herbst/
• Atlantic Council Eurasia Center: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/programs/eurasia-center
• Michael’s Substack on Ukraine striking Russian oil refineries: https://mliebreich.substack.com/p/why-ukraine-should-keep-striking
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
• MAP - Membership Action Plan
• FSB - Federal Security Service (Russia)

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 02:15 The Orange Revolution
• 06:45 Putin’s Ambitions
• 11:00 NATO and Ukraine
• 16:30 US Policy Shifts
• 22:00 Ukraine’s Oil Strikes
• 26:00 Sanctions Hit Russia
• 29:00 Cracks in Putin’s Regime
• 36:00 Ukraine’s Winter
• 39:00 Paths to Peace
• 44:27 Outro

The world needs more metals than ever before, but can the mining industry deliver the resources responsibly? The energy transition depends on the mining industry, yet the sector faces hard questions over coal, carbon emissions, environmental damage and the rights of the communities whose land and resources it extracts.

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich puts those questions directly to Rohitesh ‘Ro’ Dhawan, President and CEO of the International Council on Mining and Metals (ICMM). Can mining companies credibly commit to net-zero 2050 while continuing to produce coal? Are they taking sufficient responsibility for the emissions generated by the products they sell? And can voluntary industry standards deliver meaningful accountability, or is the industry being trusted to police itself?

Michael and Ro also touch on Indigenous consent, the lengthy process of permitting new mines, the economics of mineral processing and the challenge of electrifying some of the world’s largest machines.

Topics covered:

• Responsible mining and global standards
• Mining's role in the energy transition
• Coal production and Scope 3 emissions
• Tailings dams and industrial safety
• Indigenous rights and community consent
• Faster permitting without weaker safeguards
• Africa's mineral wealth and value chains
• Electrifying giant mining trucks
• China's dominance in mineral refining
• AI, automation and smarter extraction

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Rohitesh Dhawan’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohiteshdhawan/
• ICMM: https://www.icmm.com/
• Mining Indaba 2027: https://miningindaba.com/
• Mark Cutifani on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50A_NfgE2A
• Subscribe to the Cleaning Up newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

• NGO: Non-Governmental Organisation
• PRI: Principles for Responsible Investment
• ESG: Environmental, Social, and Governance
• R&D: Research and Development
• GFRP: Glass Fibre Reinforced Polymer

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 04:12 ICMM's Role
• 09:38 Tailings Dam Safety
• 13:01 Investor Accountability
• 16:13 Global Mining Standards
• 22:47 Coal and Emissions
• 31:20 Permitting New Mines
• 38:17 Who Benefits from Mining?
• 42:04 Smelting Economics
• 47:38 Moving Up Value Chains
• 51:29 Electrifying Mine Equipment
• 56:06 Mining Technology Breakthroughs
• 01:01:12 Outro

Can you make energy investments work in a country at war? Since Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, repeated attacks on Ukraine’s energy infrastructure have devastated its power system. By spring 2024, the country’s dispatchable generating capacity had fallen from 38 GW before the war to just 12 GW, leaving electricity in short supply and heating disrupted for many households.

For this week’s Deep Dive Ukraine, Michael Liebreich is in Kyiv speaking to Andrii Gerus, Chair of the Ukrainian Parliament's Committee on Energy, Housing and Utility Services, and Dmytro Boroday, Partner at Horizon Capital, about the race to rebuild Ukraine's energy infrastructure, and the capital needed to make it happen.

They examine how Ukraine is attracting international investors into wind, solar and battery storage, why distributed generation makes commercial as well as strategic sense, and how political risk insurance and development finance institutions are helping unlock projects. They also discuss the regulatory reforms needed to attract private capital, the challenge of corruption, and the potential for Ukraine to export electricity to neighbouring European markets.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Ukraine's energy system under attack
• The shift to distributed generation
• Why renewables strengthen energy resilience
• What winter is like to live through
• Financing energy projects during war
• War risk insurance for private investors
• Attracting international capital into Ukraine
• Ukraine's future in European electricity markets

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Andrii Gerus’ bio: https://forumkyiv.org/en/speakers/andrii-gerus
• Dmytro Boroday’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitryboroday/
• Horizon Capital: https://horizoncapital.com.ua/
• European Energy Community fund: https://www.energy-community.org/Ukraine/Fund/overview.html
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

• CHP: Combined Heat and Power
• TSO: Transmission System Operator
• DSO: Distribution System Operators
• IRR: Internal Rate of Return
• IC: Investment Committee
• GP: General Partner
• LP: Limited Partner
• EBRD: European Bank for Reconstruction Development
• IFC: International Finance Corporation
• DFI: Direct Foreign Investment
• PPA: Power Purchasing Agreement
• BESS: Battery Energy Storage System
• MIGA: Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency

Chapters:

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:06 Ukraine's Energy Crisis
• 3:29 Soviet Energy System
• 6:46 War Damage
• 10:09 Distributed Energy
• 13:31 Attracting Investors
• 17:03 War Risk Insurance
• 21:19 Corruption and Reform
• 27:04 Investing in Reconstruction
• 35:16 Financing New Renewables
• 41:03 Investing During War
• 47:26 Insurance Against War
• 51:26 Invitation To Investors
• 53:58 Outro

The world is facing a new era of geopolitical instability, rising energy costs and declining development finance. For many countries, access to reliable, affordable energy is no longer just an economic priority, it is a question of security.

Recorded in New York during the United Nations General Assembly and Climate Week, this episode of Cleaning Up sees guest host Ana Rovzar, Chief of Staff at the Global Renewables Alliance, speak with Alexander De Croo, former Prime Minister of Belgium and now Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP).

They explore how renewable energy can reduce dependence on volatile fossil fuel markets, how decentralised energy systems can strengthen resilience, and what Ukraine’s experience reveals about protecting critical energy infrastructure. The conversation also examines how to attract investment in grids and clean energy, the decline in development assistance, and AI’s potential to accelerate progress.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Energy security as national security
• Renewables and fossil fuel dependence
• Financing the global energy transition
• Ukraine's decentralised energy reconstruction
• Why grids are holding back progress
• De-risking investment in emerging markets
• Turning climate targets into action
• AI's potential to accelerate development

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Alexander De Croo’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderdecroo/
• Ana Rovzar’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ana-rovzar-2546b149/
• Achim Steiner on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2prrV1dPSUI
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
• Michael Liebreich’s Pragmatic Climate Reset: https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-i/

Acronyms:

• UNDP: United Nations Development Programme
• UNGA: United Nations General Assembly
• UNEP: United Nations Environmental Programme
• ODA: Official Development Assistance
• SDG: Sustainable Development Goal
• OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 04:56 UNDP’s Mission
• 07:11 Rethinking Development
• 14:19 Energy Security
• 17:39 Grids and Resilience
• 25:52 From Ambition to Action
• 28:23 Financing the Transition
• 36:44 Development and Security
• 41:27 De-risking Investment
• 45:05 UN Funding
• 50:06 AI and Development
• 57:03 Outro

It's been over four and a half years since Russia unleashed its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and still the war shows no sign of stopping. This week on Cleaning Up, we launch a new Deep Dive looking at Ukraine and how its people and energy systems cope through the war.

In this first episode, Michael Liebreich travels to Kyiv to find out what is happening on the ground. How are people coping with these desperate and difficult circumstances? How is the energy system coping? What can we in the international community do to help? And what do we need to learn from Ukraine's energy workers, how have they managed to keep the lights on?

In Kyiv, Michael meets Oleksandr Tolokonnikov, Deputy Head of the Kherson Regional Military Administration, to find out how a region on the frontlines is coping with constant bombardment from Russian drones and missiles. He also speaks with Sorina Seitvelieva and Emine Emirsalieva, co-owners of Musafir, a Crimean Tatar restaurant that’s become known as a resilience hub, keeping people fed and warm during winter. And he ventures to an electricity substation under renovation, where he is shown around Oleksandr Kozhukhar, head of the high-voltage network operations department at DTEK Kyiv Grids. Oleksandr tells Michael how he keeps his team safe as they repair Kyiv’s battered electricity system, and why it’s so dangerous being an energy worker in Ukraine.

From backup generators and emergency repairs to the challenges of protecting critical infrastructure from drones and missiles, the episode explores what resilience looks like in practice. It also asks what the rest of the world can learn from Ukraine’s experience, and what support is needed as the country prepares for another winter of war.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Energy workers repairing infrastructure under fire
• Preparing Ukraine’s energy system for winter
• What life is like under constant drone attacks
• Kherson’s fight to survive, and why civilians refuse to leave
• How local businesses are coping with damaged energy infrastructure

Thanks to all those who made this episode possible. In particular, Imogen Payter, Heather Buchanan and UK Friends of Ukraine, who've led over 30 parliamentary trips to Kyiv. Gary Edwards and the team at Frontier Global for keeping us safe. Special mention goes to Dominic Culverwell at the Kyiv Independent and Maria Vlokh for her help with translation. Jo Jagger for making sure it happened, the rest of the Cleaning Up team and our Leadership Circle. And to Oscar Boyd, who produced, filmed and edited this episode.

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links

• Oleksandr Tolokonnikov’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oleksandr-tolokonnikov/
• Unbreakable Kherson book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unbreakable-Kherson-Ukrainian-Wartime-Resilience/dp/B0H6CYRFH7
• DTEK Group: https://dtek.com/en/
• Musafir restaurant: https://www.musafir.com.ua/en/
• UK Friends of Ukraine: https://friendsofukraine.uk/
• Kyiv Independent: https://kyivindependent.com/
• Sign up to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com
• “мета ”: Ukrainian meaning goal/purpose/aim

Chapters

• 00:00 Intro
• 01:40 Journey Into Ukraine
• 04:15 Life During War
• 05:55 The Kherson Frontline
• 09:26 Community Resilience
• 12:38 Preparing For Winter
• 13:31 Energy Security Lessons
• 15:04 The Drone Warfare Threat
• 19:03 Life In Kyiv
• 20:40 Musafir Restaurant
• 29:45 Keeping Ukraine Powered
• 35:35 Lessons For Europe
• 37:49 Outro

There's an old joke that energy from nuclear fusion is 30 years away and always will be. For many decades, the industry did little to spoil the fun, running mammoth and unwieldy research projects, hoovering up a few billion dollars every science funding cycle and announcing breakthroughs that were scientifically interesting, but did little to move us towards actual production of electricity.

Then three things happened. First, perhaps emboldened by Elon Musk's successful disruption of the space industry with SpaceX, a bunch of wealthy investors started to invest in much nimbler startups. Second, in December 2022, the National Ignition Facility at the US's Lawrence Livermore National Lab announced that it had finally got more energy out of a fusion experiment than it had put in. And third, AI exploded on the scene, offering dramatic acceleration in everything. These developments have turned the slow-moving world of fusion on its head.

Over $14 billion has now flowed into fusion startups, and that is on top of the tens of billions already committed to national and international programs, like the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) in France, the UK's Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production (STEP) and a variety of US national labs. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with the director of one of those labs.

Professor Sir Steven Cowley has been entrusted with leading one of the jewels in the US's scientific crown. He has dedicated his academic career to trying to make fusion energy work, and he's been known to joke that he hopes it does so before he dies.

Michael and Steven discuss the breakthrough experiments that have shown fusion is possible, why getting from a successful experiment to a commercial power station is such a huge leap, and whether fusion can ever deliver affordable, dispatchable electricity. Steven puts forward the idea that fusion might have a Theranos moment, where over-promises in the industry come back to bite.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• How fusion actually works
• From experiments to electricity
• Laser versus magnetic fusion
• The commercial fusion challenge
• How AI can transform fusion research
• Fusion versus renewables and batteries

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Steven's TED Talk from 2009: https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_cowley_fusion_is_energy_s_future
• Steven’s talk at IPAM 2026: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USPd6zvA8pk
• Steven's talk at SOSV Steven’s talk at DeepTech Live, 2026: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-kb3784BPY
• Princeton Plasma Physics Lab: https://www.pppl.gov/
• Hax Plasma Forge Incubator: https://hax.co/
• Aneeqa Khan on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhEoMd7DEho
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

• ITER: International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor
• STEP: Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production
• JET: Joint European Torus
• TFTR: Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor
• DOE: Department of Energy (US)
• FLiBe: Fluoride Lithium Beryllium
• NIF: National Ignition Facility

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 03:24 Career in fusion
• 06:39 Commercial fusion
• 10:26 Laser fusion
• 18:40 Breeding tritium
• 23:33 Fusion startups
• 25:24 Laser versus magnets
• 29:21 Magnetic fusion
• 35:35 Reactor optimisation
• 40:35 AI controls fusion
• 44:52 Spherical tokamaks
• 46:33 Reversed-field fusion
• 49:24 Private fusion
• 53:07 Fusion economics
• 56:30 The future
• 57:14 Outro

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington is joined by Peter Cox, Professor of Climate System Dynamics at the University of Exeter and Director of the Global Systems Institute. A former lead author of the IPCC climate reports, Peter has spent decades studying the complex feedbacks between the climate, carbon cycle and natural world.

They delve into some of the biggest questions in climate science today: Is the planet warming faster than we thought? What is the role of forcing versus feedback? How much of the recent change is being driven by external forces, including the decline of reflective sulphur pollution, and how much is the climate system responding in ways that amplify warming?

They explore why the Earth is reflecting less sunlight back into space, the growing Earth energy imbalance, climate sensitivity, tipping points in the Amazon and Arctic, and whether solar radiation modification should remain taboo.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Why the Earth is darkening
• Is global warming accelerating?
• The Earth’s energy imbalance
• Climate sensitivity and feedbacks
• Amazon and Arctic tipping points
• The hidden cooling from pollution
• Geoengineering the planet
• Positive clean energy tipping points

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Professor Peter Cox’s bio: https://experts.exeter.ac.uk/962-peter-cox/about
• Professor Cox’s publications: https://experts.exeter.ac.uk/962-peter-cox/publications
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com

Acronyms:

• IPCC: Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
• CMIP6: Coupled Model Intercomparison Project 6
• CERES: Clouds and the Earth's Radiant Energy System
• ARIA: Advanced Research and Invention Agency
• SO2: Sulphur Dioxide
• RCP8.5: Representative Concentration Pathway 8.5
• SSP5-85: Shared Socioeconomic Pathway 5 - Radiative Forcing 8.5
• IAM: Integrated Assessment Model
• AMOC: Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation
• PV: Photovoltaics
• SRM: Solar Radiation Modification

Chapters

• 00:00 Coming Up
• 01:08 Professor Peter Cox
• 03:40 Climate System Modelling
• 07:36 Climate Tipping Points
• 17:04 Accelerating Global Warming
• 18:57 Earth’s Energy Imbalance
• 22:13 The Darkening Planet
• 37:59 Rethinking Climate Scenarios
• 45:59 Positive Tipping Points
• 52:24 Geoengineering The Planet
• 01:05:14 Outro

Around two-thirds of the energy we put into today’s energy system ends up as rejected heat. So are we measuring the energy transition all wrong?

Professor Jan Rosenow joins Michael Liebreich to unpack the “primary energy fallacy”: why focusing on the energy going into the system can obscure the useful energy we actually get out.

They explore why electrification can dramatically reduce energy demand, and what genuine systems thinking means for efficiency, waste heat and infrastructure. They also examine hydrogen versus electrification, including Jan’s review of more than 60 independent studies on hydrogen for heating, why hydrogen continues to attract support despite its disadvantages in many end uses, and how incumbent industries resist technological change.

Key topics discussed:

• The primary energy fallacy
• Why useful energy matters
• The hidden inefficiency of fossil fuels
• Electrification and shrinking energy demand
• Rethinking energy efficiency through systems thinking
• Making better use of waste heat
• Why energy statistics can misrepresent the transition
• Hydrogen vs electrification for heating
• Why incumbent technologies resist change

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Jan Rosenow’s bio: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/find-an-expert/professor-jan-rosenow
• Jan Rosenow’s Substack: https://janrosenow.substack.com/
• Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Sankey Diagram: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/sites/flowcharts/files/2026-08/2024-us-energy-flowchart-homepage.jpg
• Michael Liebreich’s “The Five Superheroes Of The Transition” article: https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/
• Our World In Data Energy Consumption Chart: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption
• Innovation and Its Enemies: Why People Resist New Technologies book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Innovation-Its-Enemies-People-Technologies/dp/019046703
• Jonathan Maxwell on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcN3Bqq8ehA
• Rob Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w
• Jorgo Chatzimarkakis on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NCiEhprSOc
• Subscribe to Cleaning Up’s newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

• LNG: Liquefied Natural Gas
• IEA: International Energy Agency,
• EIA: Energy Information Administration.
• IIASA: International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis
• OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

Chapters:

• 00:00 Introduction
• 07:34 Primary Energy Fallacy
• 15:14 Fossil Fuel Inefficiency
• 24:44 Rethinking Energy Efficiency
• 27:05 Using Waste Heat
• 35:00 Misleading Energy Statistics
• 43:12 Hydrogen vs Electrification
• 49:48 Resisting Technological Change
• 58:00 Hydrogen Europe
• 01:03:14 Outro

More than 80% of the world’s advanced AI compute is concentrated in the US and China. For Europe and other middle powers, the question may no longer be how to win the AI race, but how to avoid becoming dangerously dependent on those that do.

This week on Cleaning Up, James Cameron, Chair of Cleaning Up’s Editorial Council, takes over as guest host. He speaks with Sam Winter-Levy, Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Afonso Salema, CEO of Exus Digital and founder of TerraByte Data Centers, about how compute is becoming a strategic resource.

They explore how access to power and the grid is shaping where billions of dollars of AI infrastructure gets built, and how data centres could become a source of geopolitical leverage. They also discuss the security and public backlash facing this critical infrastructure, and whether AI’s enormous appetite for electricity could ultimately accelerate the clean energy transition.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Compute as a strategic resource
• The US-China race for AI
• Why Europe is falling behind
• AI’s rapidly growing electricity demand
• Where the world builds data centres
• Protecting data centres from attack
• Weaponising chips and AI access
• The political backlash against data centres
• Can AI accelerate clean energy?

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Afonso Salema’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afonso-salema-336320/
• Sam Winter-Levy’s bio: https://carnegieendowment.org/people/sam-winter-levy
• James Cameron’s bio: https://www.james-cameron.co.uk/bio
• Cleaning Up 235. Inside Start Campus, Europe’s largest data centre: https://youtu.be/juAyLAUmU3w
• James Cameron on Cleaning Up in 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7GKiW5E4k
• James Cameron on Cleaning Up in 2025: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPPjAbSxl5c
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
• The Stanford 2026 AI index: https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report
• Edelman Trust in AI poll: https://www.edelman.com/trust/2025/trust-barometer/report-tech-sector

Acronyms:

• AWS: Amazon Web Services
• NIMBY: "Not In My Back Yard"

Chapters:

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:02 AI, security, geopolitics
• 05:01 Compute as power
• 11:34 The global AI race
• 14:07 Building data centres
• 18:02 Defending critical infrastructure
• 23:53 Who pays for security?
• 29:24 Designing for resilience
• 32:48 Weaponising AI access
• 40:02 Data centre backlash
• 49:56 The balance of power
• 54:09 Can Europe catch up?
• 59:43 AI and clean energy
• 01:04:01 Outro

Can Mexico build an electric car for $8,000, and use it to create an entirely new domestic industry? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Mexico City to sit down with Roberto Capuano, director of the Olinia Project, and discuss the state-backed effort to develop a new generation of affordable electric mini-vehicles.

Roberto explains why Olinia is designing small EVs specifically around the needs of Mexican cities, how partnerships with Chinese suppliers could accelerate technology transfer, and why price rather than subsidies could ultimately drive EV adoption. They also discuss Mexico's ambitions beyond its domestic market, with potential demand across Latin America and even East Africa.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Why Mexico wants its own carmaker
• Electrifying Mexico City's public transport
• The rise of electric mini-cars
• Building an $8,000 Mexican EV
• Why Olinia is partnering with China
• The state's role in carmaking
• Building a Latin American EV market
• Can Olinia deliver by 2027?

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

• Roberto Capuano’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roberto-capuano/
• Olinia Project: https://www.olinia.auto/
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
• OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer
• BRT: Bus Rapid Transit
• R&D: Research & Development
• ICE: Internal Combustion Engine

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 02:15 Electrifying Mexico City
• 10:33 Olinia's Origins
• 11:58 Mini Electric Cars
• 18:48 Made in Mexico
• 21:25 State-Led Industry
• 30:33 Chinese Supply Chains
• 36:31 The $8,000 EV
• 40:01 Charging Infrastructure
• 42:54 Global Ambitions
• 45:43 Scaling Olinia
• 48:40 Software and Autonomy
• 50:01 Political Longevity
• 55:31 Outro

Can the Philippines become a testbed for Southeast Asia’s clean-tech future?

Kicking off Season 19 of Cleaning Up, guest host Marie Cheong meets Jaime Z. Urquijo, Urban Estates Group Head at Ayala Land, one of the Philippines is largest real estate and development companies.

Ayala Land is a subsidiary of the Ayala Corporation, which has been part of the Philippines' economic story for almost 200 years, and ACEN, its energy platform, has gone from a standing start in 2011 to more than 7GW of renewable capacity across Asia-Pacific.

Marie and Jaime explore how the Philippines can build cleaner energy, transport and cities from the start while its economy and population continue to grow. They discuss replacing coal with renewables, retiring coal plants early, building resilient cities and making growth less carbon-intensive. From batteries and rooftop solar to green steel and electric buses, they ask what it will take for the Philippines to leapfrog to a cleaner, more resilient economy.

Topics covered in this conversation:

• The Philippines' clean-energy challenge
• Can growth be decoupled from emissions?
• Making corporate sustainability profitable
• ACEN's renewable-energy transformation
• Southeast Asia's renewable-energy gold rush
• Can coal plants retire early?
• Building resilient cities for climate
• Electric buses and better transport
• Green steel and cleaner construction

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

• Jaime Urquijo’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaime-urquijo-96526799/
• Ayala Corporation: https://ayala.com/
• Ayala Land: https://ayalaland.com/
• ACEN: https://www.acenrenewables.com/about-us/
• Monsoon Wind Project: https://www.monsoonwindasia.com/
• Marie's past appearance on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/RE2ZeGd8aaI

Acronyms:

• WBCSD: World Business Council for Sustainable Development
• BPO: Business Process Outsourcing
• SBTI: Science Based Targets Initiative.
• MDC: Makati Development Corporation.
• EDC: The Energy Development Corporation
• EPIRA: Electric Power Industry Reform Act
• FIT: Feed-In Tariff
• ETM: Energy Transition Mechanism
• BRT: Bus Rapid Transit System
• ICE: Internal Combustion Engine
• LGU: Local Government Unit

Chapters:

• 00:00: Intro
• 04:34: The Philippines
• 07:49: Ayala's history
• 10:42: Sustainability strategy
• 16:16: Net zero
• 27:32: Energy liberalisation
• 34:09: Regional challenges
• 36:27: Coal retirement
• 42:07: Resilient cities
• 47:45: Green steel
• 52:14: Green construction
• 54:55: Innovation tailwinds
• 58:27: Energy decentralisation
• 59:07: Future growth
• 01:01:43: Outro

Australia has become a laboratory for the energy transition, what can the rest of the world learn? After two weeks travelling across Australia and meeting the leaders shaping its energy transition, Michael Liebreich got a close up view of the country’s transformation.

For the final episode of Cleaning Up’s Deep Dive Australia series, the host becomes the guest as Anna Freeman of the Energy Efficiency Council turns the tables and puts Michael in the hot seat to ask him what he has learned.

Michael divides his takeaways into the good, the less good and the “downright ugly”, from Australia’s extraordinary rooftop solar and battery uptake to its struggles with wind, transmission and diesel. He also asks whether the country really can become a clean energy superpower, and what its successes and failures can teach the rest of the world.

Topics covered in this episode:

• Australia’s rooftop solar advantage
• Why batteries are beating gas
• The missing middle of electrification
• Can transmission keep up?
• Australia’s expensive wind problem
• The China challenge
• Breaking the diesel addiction
• Why EVs may be finally taking off

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Australia Deep Dive Episodes:

• Darren Miller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBhkBTZ9lSI&t=2s
• Chris Bowen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYtapcSdZOo&t=132s
• Marc England https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tKVSJcS_SI&t=2s
• Lily D'Ambrosio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVGL9vVTdeY
• Ross Garnaut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmcm2M5eRxk&t=35s
• David Pocock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgbq5r3XTJY
• Paul Simshauser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZKxb2TnD04
• Martin Green: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgqXnnvlMFg

Links:

• Anna Freeman’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annafreeman1/
• The Energy Efficiency Council: https://eec.org.au
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
• Stats on Seaborne Trade of diesel: https://ieefa.org/resources/oil-shocks-expose-limits-monetary-policy
• John Pettigrew on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Lg1A958aA&t=5s
• Tim Meyerjürgens on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQgUuJ-dx78&t=16s
• Leo Birnbaum on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa-DHuPNEDg
• Andrew Forrest on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYQmEipY5Wc

Acronyms:

• IRENA: International Renewable Energy Agency
• EMA: Energy Market Operator
• DNSP: Distribution Network Service Provider
• REZ: Renewable Energy Zones
• AEMO: Australian Energy Market Operator

Chapters:

• 00:00: Intro
• 05:45: Solar Adoption
• 10:25: Big Batteries
• 13:41: The Missing Middle
• 19:26: Transmission Grids
• 21:35: Australia’s Wind Problem
• 32:43: China’s Superpower
• 40:53: The Diesel Addiction
• 45:24: EV Adoption
• 52:58 Lack Of Transparency
• 56:19 Michael’s Highlights
• 01:14:00: Outro

Around the world, factories making food, drink, pharmaceuticals and other everyday products rely on steam, often produced by fossil-fuel boilers. James Macnaghten, founder and CEO of Caldera, is betting that thermal batteries can provide a cheaper and more flexible alternative that stores electricity as heat, and delivers steam on demand.

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Caldera's factory to see how it makes its heat batteries: combining recycled aluminium and iron ore pellets to create a long-lasting, efficient heat store. The technology is designed for industrial processes up to 200°C, which James sees as a major opportunity for electrification.

They discuss how thermal storage can help factories manage peaks in demand, use electricity when it is cheap or abundant, and reduce pressure on congested grids. They also explore Caldera's plans to scale, its journey from domestic heating to industry, and why James believes a more pragmatic approach to electrification is needed.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• The hidden opportunity in industrial heat
• How Caldera's heat batteries work
• Why steam still matters
• Heat pumps and thermal storage
• Managing industrial demand spikes
• Turning surplus power into heat
• Scaling a UK climate-tech company
• The case for pragmatic electrification

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

• James Macnaghten’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-macnaghten
• Caldera: https://www.caldera.co.uk/
• Professor Ning Li on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCUASv01bVY
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
• JVs - Joint Ventures
• IP - Intellectual Property

Chapters:

• 00:00: Intro
• 01:53: About Caldera Batteries
• 03:42: Heat Storage
• 09:47: Caldera Factory Tour
• 14:40: Funding Caldera
• 17:44: Scaling Up
• 25:37: Thermal Storage
• 29:02: Energy Price Shocks
• 30:27: Flexible Demand
• 35:22: UK Success Story
• 37:32: Outro

Solar was once dismissed as a marginal technology. Today, it is transforming the global energy system, and few people have done more to make that possible than Professor Martin Green. Innovations developed by Green and his research group can now be found in over 90% of all the solar panels in use today

One of the pioneers of modern solar power, Green’s research has helped make solar panels dramatically more efficient and cheaper to produce. He joins Michael Liebreich to discuss how he got into solar, the breakthroughs that helped drive its extraordinary rise, and the remarkable story of how research carried out at an Australian university helped create the global solar manufacturing industry. They also look at where solar goes next, and whether the next generation of technology can make it even more powerful.

Topics discussed in this episode

• The breakthroughs that changed solar
• Understanding solar cells and efficiency
• Racing NASA to new efficiency records
• Pioneering PERC and TOPCon technology
• How solar technology reached the market
• Suntech and the rise of Chinese solar
• The future of solar and batteries
• Which solar technology will dominate?

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links

• Martin Green bio: https://www.unsw.edu.au/staff/martin-green
• Australian Centre for Advanced Photovoltaics: https://www.acap.org.au/
• Professor Stephen Chu on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPmgA5cjhfk
• NREL National Renewable Energy Lab chart: https://www.nlr.gov/pv/interactive-cell-efficiency
• Subscribe to our newsletter: http://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

• PERC - Passivated Emitter and Rear Cell
• TOPCon - Tunnel Oxide Passivated Contact
• NREL - National Renewable Energy Laboratory

Chapters

• 00:00 - Intro
• 02:14 - UNSW Research Group
• 10:25 - Innovations in Solar
• 13:12 - PERC & TOPCon Explained
• 19:26 - Efficiency Records & NREL Chart
• 23:48 - Birth of Chinese Solar
• 30:21 - The First Solar Billionaire
• 36:23 - Perovskite and Tandem Cells
• 48:12 - Australia's Missed Chance
• 50:13 - Outro

Will AI break the grid? As hyperscalers race to build ever-larger data centres, electricity demand is soaring. The question is no longer whether power demand will grow, but by how much, how quickly, and whether the grid can deliver.

This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Arshad Mansoor, President & CEO of the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), one of the world's leading energy research organisations. Together, they tackle one of the biggest questions facing the global energy system: how much electricity will AI really need, and can our power systems keep up?

They debate the scale of AI-driven demand growth, whether the extraordinary investment by hyperscalers is justified, and how greater flexibility could allow data centres to connect faster without overwhelming the grid. They also discuss the growing public backlash against AI infrastructure, why winning local support may become the industry's biggest challenge, and whether nuclear power is truly the "get out of jail free card" many believe it to be or simply one part of a much bigger solution.

Topics included in this episode:

• The race to power AI data centres
• Hyperscalers' trillion-dollar AI investment
• Can electricity grids keep pace with AI's rapid growth?
• Gigawatt demand forecasts
• Making data centres more flexible
• Public acceptance and the growing backlash against AI
• Nuclear power's role in the AI era
• What governments, utilities and investors should do next

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

• Arshad Mansoor’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arshad-mansoor-a2090b165/
• EPRI, Electric Power Research Institute: https://www.epri.com/
• Jigar Shah on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOaF-qQ_TU
• Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kSrgRZUCwE
• Rob Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w&t=2s
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Papers referenced:

• DC Flex Mosaic: https://dcflex.epri.com/flex-mosaic/open-letter
• Win Win Watts: https://winwin.epri.com/en/introduction.html
• Make Electricity Cheap Again: https://mliebreich.substack.com/p/make-electricity-cheap-again

Acronyms:

• GPU: Graphics Processing Unit
• IPO: Initial Public Offering
• NESO: National Energy Systems Operator
• HVO: Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil
• SMR: Small Modular Reactor

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 02:29 About EPRI
• 06:08 AI Power Demand
• 10:45 Gigawatt Debate
• 17:19 Hyperscaler Risk
• 26:15 Compute In Households
• 31:24 24/7 Data Power
• 38:28 Public Acceptance
• 41:39 Fear Of AI
• 49:39 A Nuclear Solution?
• 58:38 24/7 Reliable Power
• 01:08:00 Final Thoughts

Australia has one of the world's fastest-moving electricity systems. It leads the world in rooftop solar, has deployed grid-scale batteries at extraordinary speed, and is now starting to replace its ageing coal fleet with cleaner sources of energy. But as renewable costs rise and electricity demand grows, can the transition remain affordable while maintaining a reliable power system?

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Paul Simshauser, CEO of Iberdrola Australia, and one of Australia's leading energy economists. Drawing on decades of experience across electricity markets, networks and policy, Paul explains what makes Australia's power system unique, and what the rest of the world can learn from it.

They discuss why rooftop solar has become so successful in Australia, how batteries are transforming electricity markets, and how the country's energy-only market encourages investment. They also explore the economics of replacing ageing coal plants, the costs of new renewable generation, the role of electricity pricing and demand tariffs, and what will be needed to build a resilient, affordable power system as Australia moves towards net zero.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• The rooftop solar revolution
• How batteries are reshaping the grid
• Why solar is cheaper in Australia than elsewhere
• The challenges of retiring coal
• Whether renewables can stay affordable
• Building a resilient power system

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

• Paul Simshauser’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-simshauser-00106713/
• Iberdrola Australia: https://www.iberdrola.com.au
• Link to Paul’s articles: https://experts.griffith.edu.au/18942-paul-simshauser/publications
• Malcolm Turnbull on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9CUGRHCswU&t=5s
• Marc England on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tKVSJcS_SI
• Darren Miller on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBhkBTZ9lSI&t=2s
• Tony Abbott on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_39HmAgq9RY&t=1s
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

• STC: Small-scale Technology Certificates
• CFD: Contract For Difference
• PPAs: Power Purchase Agreements
• IBGYBG: “I'll be gone, you'll be gone.”
• OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer
• AEMO: Australian Electricity Market Operator
• LNG: Liquefied Natural Gas

Chapters:

• 00:00 - Intro
• 02:28 - Paul's Background
• 04:07 - Iberdrola Australia
• 06:42 - Australia's Power System
• 09:15 - Battery Revolution
• 12:36 - Energy-Only Market
• 14:35 - Why Solar Succeeds
• 18:21 - Commercial Solar Challenge
• 24:30 - Ageing Coal Fleet
• 28:49 - Carbon Markets & Pricing
• 35:00 - Renewable Costs
• 39:18 - Future Demand
• 42:45 - Grid Resilience
• 48:00 - Outro

Microbes rarely feature in discussions about climate change, yet they play a central role in regulating greenhouse gases through the Earth's carbon, methane and nitrogen cycles. As the climate changes, understanding these natural processes is becoming increasingly important to develop new approaches to clean energy, agriculture and emissions reduction.

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington speaks with Professor Emeritus David Kirchman of the University of Delaware, one of the world's leading microbial ecologists and author of 'Microbes: the Unseen Agents of Climate Change.'

They explore how microbes drive the carbon, methane and nitrogen cycles, how climate change is reshaping ecosystems from permafrost to coral reefs, and how microbial science could help tackle the climate crisis, from microbial fuel cells and lower-emissions agriculture to biofuels, methane reduction and even emerging forms of carbon removal and geoengineering

Topics covered in this episode:

• The microbes shaping Earth's climate
• Ocean carbon cycle
• Methane-eating microbes
• Arctic warming impacts
• Coral reefs and climate resilience
• Low-carbon agriculture
• Microbes powering climate solutions
• Climate interventions

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

• David Kirchman’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-kirchman-5925b331/
• David’s book: Microbes, the Unseen Agents of Climate Change: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microbes-Unseen-Agents-Climate-Change/dp/019768856X
• Merlin Sheldrake on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC-9ulSTnB4
• Sea ice melting effect on microbes article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-77821-9
• Background on James Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis: https://courses.seas.harvard.edu/climate/eli/Courses/EPS281r/Sources/Gaia/Gaia-hypothesis-wikipedia.pdf
• DMS: Dimethyl Sulphide
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Chapters:

• 00:00 - Intro
• 00:45 - About David Kirchman
• 05:50 - What Are Microbes?
• 15:29 - Climate Cycles & Carbon
• 23:04 - Methane Microbes
• 29:01 - Climate Change
• 34:41 - Coral Reefs
• 41:02 - Microbe Climate Solutions
• 50:10 - Climate Engineering
• 01:00:28 - Outro

David Pocock is one of Australia's most influential politicians, working as the Senator of the Australian Capital Territory. He brings a distinctive perspective to some of the country's biggest debates, from climate policy and energy security to democratic reform and the future of work.

A former captain of the Australian rugby team, David entered politics after years of speaking out on issues including climate change, equality and environmental protection. Four years into his Senate career, he joins Michael Liebreich to explain how independent politics works in practice, what he's hearing from voters across Australia, his campaign to tax natural gas exports, and why he believes the country's clean energy transition must deliver lower household bills as well as lower emissions.

The conversation explores Australia's world-leading rooftop solar uptake, the barriers slowing electric vehicle adoption, and why David believes Australians deserve a greater return from the country's gas exports. They also look ahead to the rise of AI and data centres, asking whether governments are paying enough attention to the implications for jobs, tax revenues and energy demand.

Topics covered in this week's episode:

• David’s journey from rugby player to Senator
• Australian voters' priorities
• Lowering household energy bills
• Australia's clean energy successes
• Why EV adoption lags
• Taxing Australia's gas exports
• Data centres and energy demand
• AI concerns and the future of work

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

• David Pocock’s bio: https://www.davidpocock.com.au/about
• David Pocock “Chains himself to digger” news article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/30272670
• Aksel Lund Svindal on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRc1VCBnVgI
• Alex Honnold on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwmQf0mhHkE
• Prince Albert of Monaco on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-eYHKpDBYU
• Håkan Agnevall (Wärtsilä) on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYjGT55g5A
• Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

• C&I: Commercial and Industrial
• ICE: Internal Combustion Engine
• ACT: Australian Capital Territory

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro
• 01:48 From Rugby to Politics
• 11:46 Getting Arrested For Activism
• 16:35 What Voters Want
• 20:34 Rising Voter Frustration
• 26:16 Australia's Energy Report
• 28:57 Why EVs Lag Behind
• 31:19 Taxing Gas Exports
• 36:09 Data Centre Dilemma
• 39:46 AI vs Human Jobs
• 44:47 Delivering Real Results
• 49:44 Outro