Code 3 - The Firefighters Podcast

What do you do when you respond to a hazmat situation if you’re not a hazmat specialist?

Do you wait for the hazmat specialists to arrive? What if it sounds like a relatively minor situation, like someone who mixed two household cleaning products together and got an unfortunate result?

You’d probably go in to rescue the homeowner, right?

Of course, that means putting on all your PPE, including the SCBA and the hood.

Now, what if the location has a green cloud coming from the windows?

Well, that’s a little scarier, isn’t it? Maybe it’s time for the specialists to step in.

As you can see, there’s no one-size-fits-all answer to these situations.

Here to clear up some of the confusion is Phil Ambrose, He’s the founder of HazSim and retired from the Glendale, California Fire Department after 24 years of service.

The next time you’re doing a training evolution, notice what your officer is doing. Is he or she standing nearby watching you train? Or are they actively training alongside you?

The answer says a lot about the officer’s leadership philosophy.

My guest today is Jeremy Sanders. He says that it’s better leadership for that officer to be doing the same skills you’re training on.

And if you are that officer, why aren’t you in there, participating?

It’s better for morale, it’s better for building respect, and it keeps you ready to take action when necessary.

Jeremy is a 23-year fire service veteran from the Edmond Fire Department in central Oklahoma. He is also the founder of Crew 1st Culture and The Crew 1st Culture Podcast.

A few years back, Frank Leeb put together a list of things probies need to know when they start work. Then he realized the items on the list are actually important for firefighters to keep in mind for their whole careers.

Today, I’m talking with Frank about some of the rules or virtues on the list and how he came up with them.

Frank was a 30+ year veteran of the FDNY when he retired in 2024. He served in several staff positions, including chief of the fire academy, chief of training, and chief of safety. He's currently a member of the East Farmingdale, NY, Volunteer Fire Department, where he's been since 1983.

There’s a campaign going on that aims to give volunteer fire departments some tools to help recruit new members.

It’s called “A Hustle Worth Having” and it’s aimed at Gen Z-aged community members. For those unfamiliar with the term, it's roughly defined as those born between 1997 and 2012, or 14 to 29 years old.

The International Association of Fire Chiefs is behind the campaign and has made all the campaign assets available at no cost to any fire department that wants to use them.

My guest is Jason Caughey, the Fire Chief of the Laramie County Fire Authority in Wyoming and an IAFC board member

How would you like to work the busiest volunteer firehouse in the nation?

This house answers an average of four to five thousand calls for service a year. That’s more than many career departments, and they do it out of one station.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the Kentland Volunteer Fire Department has no problem recruiting firefighters. They even staff a minimum of four people on overnights. And this is not a combination department. It’s all-volunteer.

Located in Prince George's County, Maryland, Kentland prides itself on high standards.

How do they do all this?

Here to answer that question is Alex Caldaro, the Truck 33 Sergeant. He’s a fifteen-year veteran of the fire service who also works at Wilson’s Mills Fire Department in Clayton, North Carolina, where he’s Captain of Ladder 5.

This year marks the 25th anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and United Airlines flight 93.

That means there’s now a whole generation that’s grown up since the attacks and views them as history.

There’s a new documentary out now that will help that generation understand what 9-11 means to this nation and why.

“The Heroism and Resiliency of 9-11” is the film. It features first-person accounts, actual footage of the attacks and dramatized re-enactments of events. It tells the story through the eyes of people who were there.

It’s narrated by well-known actor Gary Sinise. In 2011, he started the Gary Sinise Foundation to serve veterans, first responders, and their families.

And with me today is the film's executive producer, Dr. Chris Meek. Chris was there, at ground zero, on September 11th, 2001, working for Goldman Sachs.

He’s since become involved with several charities, notably SoldierStrong, which he co-founded to support VA Hospitals.

On this edition of Code 3, we're talking with a firefighter/paramedic who is using the internet to reach young people to tell them about a career as a firefighter.

RJ Clarke is working on a documentary photography project titled "The Color of Fire."

After 15 years in the fire service, RJ noticed that young kids in the communities he visited rarely considered firefighting as a career because they rarely saw representation of firefighters of color. Currently, about 8 percent of US firefighters are black.

In response, he set out to document black firefighters during the quieter, everyday moments between alarms, as well as at work on the fireground.

With over a million views online, the project highlights positive representation, community connection, and the true reality of the job. Today, he shares what inspired the project, the impact it’s having, and his plans to turn it into a traveling gallery for the next generation.

On today’s edition, we’re diving into a raw, unfiltered conversation about what happens when the turnout gear comes off and the cumulative weight of the job follows you home.

Joining me today is James Owen, a retired 30-year first responder and former Long Beach fire Captain. James is the author of the new book The Last Patient: A Memoir of Resilience and Recovery.

We talk about the hard realities of job stress, hitting rock bottom, dealing with trauma, and the work it takes to truly recover—not just for yourself, but for your family

adder work is one of the most basic parts of firefighting.

But basic does not always mean simple.

There is a lot of technique involved in throwing, carrying, and placing a ladder correctly.

And small decisions can have a big impact on how well that ladder works when it matters.

Today, we’re looking in-depth at best practices for using ladders,

We’ll talk about the mechanics behind a good ladder throw.

We’ll talk about storage and deployment on the rig.

And we’ll look at some of the common mistakes firefighters make.

My guest today is Sam Hittle. He’s a Captain with the Wichita, Kansas, Fire Department. He is an FDIC Instructor, a Traditions Training Instructor, a Wichita HOT Instructor, and an FDIC Lecturer. He has been published multiple times by Fire Engineering.

Today, we’re diving deep into fireground operations and functional strategy. Our focus is on how departments can adapt when dedicated truck companies are not available.

When you need an effective, efficient, and safe coordinated fire attack, truck company operations aren't optional—they are an absolute necessity. But what happens when your department doesn't have dedicated truck companies in the station?

To answer that question, we are joined by a veteran fire chief and co-author of the 2024 Fire Engineering book, The Non-Traditional Truck Company. Jim Silvernail is chief of the Kirkwood Fire Department of St. Louis County, Missouri. He’s a 25-year veteran of the fire service here to discuss how your department can build a "jack-of-all-trades" culture and how suburban and rural departments can master truck work using the rigs they already have.

Today, we are rethinking everything you know about fire ground size-up. Everyone has been taught standard acronyms like COAL WAS WEALTH. But that traditional method is often too complicated for a young firefighter or inexperienced officer with no background in building construction.

Our guest today is here to share what he calls a system for success. He breaks down the vital difference between an initial windshield report and a true size-up. And he warns that a worthwhile size-up absolutely does not take place from the cab of the apparatus.

Todd Edwards explains why identifying the occupancy is the most critical step. Hearing "working fire" over the radio is simply not enough for incoming units to make tactical decisions. They need to know exactly what they are dealing with before they ever step off the rig.

Todd Edwards served for over 30 years with Atlanta Fire Rescue. He is a second-generation firefighter and the creator of the presentation "Size-Up: A System for Success." During his career with Atlanta, he held a variety of positions, including Captain, Battalion Chief, and Assistant Fire Chief.

How many times have you pulled up to a location, seen fire blowing out of the second-story windows, and thought, "There is no way anyone is alive in there?" Today’s guest argues that firefighters have been making that call far too early. And it’s often based on outdated campaigns and fear rather than real-world data.

You took an oath to protect life. It is the driving force behind every decision you make when you pull up to a working fire. But that drive has to be balanced with reality.

The question isn't just "is the building searchable?" The harder question is: "Is it survivable?"

Joining me is Sean Duffy, a firefighter on a mission to redefine the boundary between searchable space and survivable space. Sean is a vocal advocate for the Firefighter Rescue Survey, using hard data to prove that victims can—and do—survive in structures with over 75% fire involvement.

Sean is a highly respected instructor and the voice behind the presentation "Searchable vs. Survivable: Educated Decision Making." He’s here to discuss how to move beyond guessing and start using data, fire behavior, and building construction to make the toughest call on the fireground.

He’s a firefighter for the City of Ann Arbor, Michigan, where he’s been for almost 20 years.

I last had him on the show talking about the reasons why 2-in/2-out is a concept whose time has passed.

You ever walk into *that* firehouse? You know the one. The crew is burnt out. They’ve given up on morale. And they’re constantly complaining that "Downtown" or "The Brass" have ruined the job.

But my guest today argues that if your station’s culture is toxic, you shouldn't be looking at the Fire Chief for help... you should be looking in the mirror for solutions to your problems.

Yep. The most powerful person in the department isn’t the one with the bugles on their collar—it’s the Company Officer sitting at the kitchen table.

Dr. Candace Ashby is a Battalion Chief with the Indianapolis Fire Department. She holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership. She is the creator of "Leadership from the Bottom Up," a no-nonsense approach that challenges firefighters to stop playing the blame game and start taking ownership of their department.

She joins me today to talk about why we need to stop waiting for permission to lead, how to turn bitterness into betterment, and why the future of the fire service depends on the men and women riding the engines

There’s a lot of talk about "making the grab" in this job. But how often do you actually break down what went right when a rescue is successful?

Not just the tools, but the mindset, the assignments, and the split-second decisions made in the first few minutes.

After the high-fives and backslapping, it’s time to analyze how you did it. So you’ll do it right the next time, too.

And to look at your mistakes, so you can avoid them the next time.

My guest today has turned that breakdown into a science. D.J. Stone is a Battalion Chief with the South Walton Fire District in Florida. He’s the creator of "The Grab Analysis," a program that dissects real-world rescues—captured on video—to teach firefighters exactly how to prioritize the search and get victims out alive.

On this edition of Code 3, we discuss aggressive search culture, the "850" method, and why preparation starts long before the tones drop.

We often talk about the fireground as a chaotic environment, because it is.

But there is a tendency in the modern fire service to meet that chaos with complexity—adding more gadgets, more steps, and more theories to what is, at its heart, a simple physical battle.

When the heat is high and visibility is zero, complexity is the enemy. It slows you down. And in this job, slow can be fatal—in fact, it has been.

So, how do we strip away the noise and get back to what actually puts the fire out?

Today, we’re going to discuss the "Keep It Simple" philosophy. We’ll talk about why firefighters need to slow down, the specific mechanics of a good hose stretch, and why the most advanced piece of technology on the fireground is still a well-trained firefighter with a nozzle.

My guest today believes the answer lies in four simple words: Stretch. Charge. Flow. And Move.

Daryl Liggins is a retired Training Captain from the Oakland Fire Department, a department known for its aggressive interior culture and heavy fire duty. Throughout his career, Daryl has been a student of the engine company. He has championed the idea that mastering the basics isn’t about being "old school"—it’s about being effective.

Do you know exactly how vertical ventilation works?

Depending on your level of experience, you may think you do, but you still might not have a really solid understanding of why it works. Simply cutting a random 4x4-foot hole in the roof won't do the job in all cases.

My guest today has a good deal of experience as a firefighter, but he admits that, until he saw a live fire test, he misunderstood how cutting a hole in the roof affects the fire.

We’ll talk about that, as well as when it’s the best time to vent the roof, how dangerous it is to work up there, how handlines can be used to move air and smoke with it, and how much training firefighters need to remain proficient in roof operations.

Nicholas Papa is a 17-year veteran of the New Britain, Connecticut, Fire Department, where he’s a captain. He became a firefighter in 2003, volunteering for a neighboring suburb until he was hired by New Britain. He is the author of the book Coordinating Ventilation: Supporting Extinguishment & Survivability.

If you spend any time on social media, you’re probably familiar with Curt Isakson.

He has a massive presence on Facebook and about 6,000 followers.

Chief Ike, as he’s also known, has had a 30-plus-year career in the fire service.

He's also been an advocate for treatment of firefighters who sufFer from PTSD.

So it was not a big surprise when Curt decided to enroll in the IAFF’s Center of

Excellence for Behavioral Health Treatment and Recovery.

It’s an in-patient treatment program held at a facility in Maryland. The program is

designed for firefighters and treats a variety of emotional problems. While

about a third of the participants suffer from PTSD, there are also victims of

substance abuse and other issues, like depression.

In Curt’s case, he decided to check himself in to be treated for PTSD.

As his social media followers know, his request for time off to be treated was

denied by his employer, Escambia, County, Florida, Fire-Rescue.

Curt decided to go anyway.

When he returned, he was forced into retirement.

But Curt is not sorry he went, even though he lost his job.

When Bill Niemann joined the fire service in 1976, the landscape looked very

different. This was a time of rubber boots, and riding the tailboard of the

engine. SCBAs were the newest thing, and not everyone got to have one.

When Bill Niemann joined the fire service in 1976, the landscape looked very

different. This was a time of rubber boots, and riding the tailboard of the

engine. SCBAs were the newest thing, and not everyone got to have one.

But for the second half of his career in the fire service, Bill carried a gun. He

was an assistant fire marshal assigned to the Arson Crimes Unit of Prince

William County, Virginia. Back then, there were no rules for fire investigations.

Just wait until you hear how he wrote his own rulebook.

Speaking of writing, Bill has also written a novel. It’s titled “Heavy Fire Showing.”

But for the second half of his career in the fire service, Bill carried a gun. He

was an assistant fire marshal assigned to the Arson Crimes Unit of Prince

William County, Virginia. Back then, there were no rules for fire investigations.

Just wait until you hear how he wrote his own rulebook.

Speaking

of writing, Bill has also written a novel. It’s titled “Heavy Fire Showing.”

When

Bill Niemann joined the fire service in 1976, the landscape looked very

different. This was a time of rubber boots, and riding the tailboard of the

engine. SCBAs were the newest thing, and not everyone got to have one.

But

for the second half of his career in the fire service, Bill carried a gun. He

was an assistant fire marshal assigned

to the Arson Crimes Unit of Prince

William County, Virginia. Back then, there were no rules for fire investigations.

Just wait until you hear how he wrote his

own rulebook.

Speaking

of writing, Bill has also written a novel. It’s titled “Heavy Fire Showing.”

If you’re a member of a volunteer department, you’ve probably run into the problem of Incident Command.

The issue is, who’s going to be the IC on a given fireground.

Now, if your volunteer department is lucky enough to have career firefighters showing up to calls with you, the problem’s not so bad. Odds are, that career firefighter is going to be the one who takes command of the scene.

But what if the response is all-volunteer? Who takes command then?

That’s the question we’re going to examine on this edition of Code 3.

My guest today is Richard Ray. He’s got over 30 years in the fire service. He’s both a firefighter with the Creedmoor, North Carolina Volunteer Fire Department. His full-time job is battalion chief with the Durham, North Carolina Fire Department. He instructs on a national level as well.

This edition of Code 3 is a little different than most.

It’s about a Fire Chief who lost his job after he incurred the wrath of the Union

Local’s officials and, ultimately, the IAFF.

Scott Freitag was the chief of the Central Arizona Fire and Medical Authority, or

CAFMA.

The agency was created under Scott’s leadership when two fire districts combined under

a JMA to form CAFMA in 2015.

CAFMA covers 365 square miles of territory of Yavapai County, Arizona. And it serves

about 100,000 residents from 12 stations.

One day in August 2024, a press release showed up in email inboxes saying that the

IAFF had censured Scott Freitag by a vote of 2,520 to 0.

I

was pretty startled to get this news because I know Scott Freitag to be an

honest, decent Fire Chief who was genuinely concerned about the welfare of his

firefighters.

As you’ll hear, the no-confidence vote led to Scott’s firing after 11 years as

Fire Chief in September 2024.

How this all went down depends on whose story you believe. It may well have had

little to do with firefighting and much more to do with politics and a health

plan.