Designed in California

Apple begins a crash program to build a music player by the end of 2001, aided by a fortuitous discovery in Japan. Hardware chief Jon Rubinstein recruits a brash young product manager, Tony Fadell, to figure out how all the parts fit together.

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• Sequential: Build consistent habits with an animated checklist that walks you through your own routines. Get 1 month free with the code 'DESIGNED'.

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Jason Snell and Myke Hurley.

Written by Jason Snell. Script development by Kelly Turner.

Thanks to Scott Knaster, Stephen Hackett, Matt Rollefson, Adam C. Engst, Jim Hunkins, John Buck, Harry McCracken, and members of the iPod team for script assistance.

Extra special thanks to Hansen Hsu and everyone else at the Computer History Museum.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References/Further Reading:

• The Perfect Thing by Steven Levy
• Apple: The First 50 Years by David Pogue
• Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson
• Apple In China by Patrick McGee
• Build by Tony Fadell
• iCon: Steve Jobs by Jeffrey S. Young
• Becoming Steve Jobs by Brent Schlender and Rick Tetzeli
• John Rubinstein Oral History at The Computer History Museum
• Regis McKenna Oral History at The Computer History Museum

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

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Guiding Apple through its comeback, Steve Jobs comes up with a clever strategy to make the Mac the center of everyone's digital life. The problem is, he's failed to integrate music into the mix--and Apple will have to scramble to catch up.

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• Radley House: From problem to product.

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Jason Snell and Myke Hurley.

Written by Jason Snell. Script development by Kelly Turner.

Thanks to Scott Knaster, Stephen Hackett, Matt Rollefson, Adam C. Engst, Jim Hunkins, John Buck, Harry McCracken, and members of the iPod team for script assistance.

Extra special thanks to Hansen Hsu and everyone else at the Computer History Museum.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References/Further Reading:

• The Perfect Thing by Steven Levy
• Apple: The First 50 Years by David Pogue
• Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson
• Apple In China by Patrick McGee
• Build by Tony Fadell
• iCon: Steve Jobs by Jeffrey S. Young
• Becoming Steve Jobs by Brent Schlender and Rick Tetzeli
• John Rubinstein Oral History at The Computer History Museum
• Regis McKenna Oral History at The Computer History Museum

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

Two decades after the Walkman had revolutionized personal audio, a new compressed digital audio format emerged that would redefine how we listen to music. We kick off our series about the origin of Apple's hit MP3 player, the iPod.

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• Opermium: Creating customer value in airport operations.

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Jason Snell and Myke Hurley.

Written by Jason Snell. Script development by Kelly Turner.

Thanks to Scott Knaster, Stephen Hackett, Matt Rollefson, Adam C. Engst, Jim Hunkins, John Buck, Harry McCracken, and members of the iPod team for script assistance.

Extra special thanks to Hansen Hsu and everyone else at the Computer History Museum.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References/Further Reading:

• The Perfect Thing by Steven Levy
• Apple: The First 50 Years by David Pogue
• Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson
• Apple In China by Patrick McGee
• Build by Tony Fadell
• iCon: Steve Jobs by Jeffrey S. Young
• Becoming Steve Jobs by Brent Schlender and Rick Tetzeli
• John Rubinstein Oral History at The Computer History Museum
• Regis McKenna Oral History at The Computer History Museum

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

In this bonus episode, Jason interviews former Apple SVP of Retail Ron Johnson about why Steve Jobs wanted to get into retail, understanding what Apple's brand represents, the customer-service model of the Apple Store, and much more.

Links and Show Notes:

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Gil Amelio and Steve Jobs make a deal that will change the future trajectory of Mac OS, Apple, and the tech industry. But is Steve happy to be the CEO at Pixar, or is he secretly plotting to take over Apple?

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• BuddyBar: Your Brand Colors, Always One Click Away.

Guest Starring:

John Siracusa

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell. Special guest John Siracusa.

Written by Jason Snell. Thanks to Stephen Hackett, Harry McCracken, Hansen Hsu of the Computer History Museum, and Scott Knaster for script assistance.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• MacUser and Macworld magazines issues from the period
• Apple: The Inside Story of Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders by Jim Carlton
• On the Firing Line by Gil Amelio
• Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer
• Grateful Geek by Jean-Louis Gassée
• iCon by Jeffrey S. Young

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

Torn between Be and NeXT, Gil Amelio tries to analyze it all scientifically, including final demos from both teams. But was the end result a foregone conclusion?

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• Iru: Don't let bad IT tools destroy your productivity. Take back time and control by managing devices, identity, and compliance in one place.

Guest Starring:

John Siracusa

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell. Special guest John Siracusa.

Written by Jason Snell. Thanks to Stephen Hackett, Harry McCracken, Hansen Hsu of the Computer History Museum, and Scott Knaster for script assistance.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• MacUser and Macworld magazines issues from the period
• Apple: The Inside Story of Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders by Jim Carlton
• On the Firing Line by Gil Amelio
• Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer
• Grateful Geek by Jean-Louis Gassée
• iCon by Jeffrey S. Young

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

Just up the road from Apple in Redwood City, Steve Jobs's NeXT is fading and flailing, but has a modern operating system just like the one Apple desperately needs to buy to replace Mac OS. An unlikely person makes an unlikely phone call to save the day.

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• Bulletin: On-device AI-powered news reading for the Apple ecosystem. Use code DICA50 for 50% off your first year.

Guest Starring:

John Siracusa

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell. Special guest John Siracusa.

Written by Jason Snell. Thanks to Stephen Hackett, Harry McCracken, Hansen Hsu of the Computer History Museum, and Scott Knaster for script assistance.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• MacUser and Macworld magazines issues from the period
• Apple: The Inside Story of Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders by Jim Carlton
• On the Firing Line by Gil Amelio
• Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer
• Grateful Geek by Jean-Louis Gassée
• iCon by Jeffrey S. Young

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

Apple desperately needs a replacement for Mac OS, but negotiations with Jean-Louis Gassée's Be are at the breaking point. But does CEO Gil Amelio have any other options?

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• Bulletin: On-device AI-powered news reading for the Apple ecosystem. Use code DICA50 for 50% off your first year.

Guest Starring:

John Siracusa

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell. Special guest John Siracusa.

Written by Jason Snell. Thanks to Stephen Hackett, Harry McCracken, Hansen Hsu of the Computer History Museum, and Scott Knaster for script assistance.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• MacUser and Macworld magazines issues from the period
• Apple: The Inside Story of Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders by Jim Carlton
• On the Firing Line by Gil Amelio
• Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer
• Grateful Geek by Jean-Louis Gassée
• iCon by Jeffrey S. Young

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

A possible replacement for Mac OS arrives in the form of a company founded by a charismatic former Apple executive--but not the one you're thinking of.

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• Aro Base Group: Apple-Focused IT Consulting and Managed Services for Business.

Guest Starring:

John Siracusa

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell. Special guest John Siracusa.

Written by Jason Snell. Thanks to Stephen Hackett, Harry McCracken, Hansen Hsu of the Computer History Museum, and Scott Knaster for script assistance.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• MacUser and Macworld magazines issues from the period
• Apple: The Inside Story of Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders by Jim Carlton
• On the Firing Line by Gil Amelio
• Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer
• Grateful Geek by Jean-Louis Gassée
• iCon by Jeffrey S. Young

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

🎗🤠 Relay for St. Jude

Apple's homegrown next-generating operating system fails to launch, leaving the company in dire straits and searching for a lifeline from outside the company.

This episode of Designed in California is sponsored by:

• Selkie Design: An indie app development studio that makes Substage and Hour by Hour.

Guest Starring:

John Siracusa

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell. Special guest John Siracusa.

Written by Jason Snell. Thanks to Stephen Hackett for script assistance.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• MacUser and Macworld magazines issues from the period
• Apple: The Inside Story of Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders by Jim Carlton
• On the Firing Line by Gil Amelio
• Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

In the mid-1990s, Apple knew the classic Mac OS was running out of time. As the company's most important product sped toward a cliff, Apple began an increasingly desperate attempt to build a replacement.

Guest Starring:

John Siracusa

Links and Show Notes:

Originally released as part of Upgrade #624.

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell. Special guest John Siracusa.

Written by Jason Snell. Thanks to Stephen Hackett for script assistance.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• MacUser and Macworld magazines issues from the period
• Apple: The Inside Story of Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders by Jim Carlton
• On the Firing Line by Gil Amelio
• Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

20 Macs for 2020 #6: DayStar Genesis MP (#15)

The Apple II makes its public debut at a landmark event in the history of personal computers, and Steve Jobs truly comes into his own.

Links and Show Notes:

Originally released as Upgrade #625.

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell.

Written by Jason Snell.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• Infinite Loop (1999) by Michael S. Malone
• Apple: The First 50 Years (2026) by David Pogue (Amazon, Kobo, Apple Books)
• Steve Jobs (2011) by Walter Isaacson (Amazon, Used)

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

Under the watchful eye of Steve Jobs, the Apple II takes form at last. It's an integrated color computer created by Steve Wozniak, powered by a groundbreaking power supply designed by Rod Holt, and wrapped in a plastic shell designed by Jerry Manock.

Links and Show Notes:

Originally released as Upgrade #623

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell.

Written by Jason Snell.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• Infinite Loop (1999) by Michael S. Malone
• Apple: The First 50 Years (2026) by David Pogue (Amazon, Kobo, Apple Books)
• Steve Jobs (2011) by Walter Isaacson (Amazon, Used)

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

We travel to the summer of 1976, as Apple travels to Atlantic City for a computer trade show, the Apple II begins to form, and the fellowship between the two Steves shows signs of breaking.

Links and Show Notes:

Originally released as Upgrade #621

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell.

Written by Jason Snell.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• Infinite Loop (1999) by Michael S. Malone
• Apple: The First 50 Years (2026) by David Pogue (Amazon, Kobo, Apple Books)
• Steve Jobs (2011) by Walter Isaacson (Amazon, Used)

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

We take you back to 1976 and recount Steve Jobs's numerous attempts to sell Apple or, at the very least, get someone to make an investment in the fledgling company.

Links and Show Notes:

Originally released as Upgrade #619

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell.

Written by Jason Snell.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• Infinite Loop (1999) by Michael S. Malone
• Apple: The First 50 Years (2026) by David Pogue (Amazon, Kobo, Apple Books)
• Steve Jobs (2011) by Walter Isaacson (Amazon, Used)

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback

Apple emerged from the unique environment of the Santa Clara valley suburbs of the '70s thanks to the particular genius of its two co-founders and some surprising help they got along the way.

Links and Show Notes:

Presented by Myke Hurley and Jason Snell.

Written by Jason Snell.

Audio editing by Myke Hurley and Jim Metzendorf. Video production by Jamie Snell.

Designed in California theme by Christopher Breen.

References:

• Infinite Loop (1999) by Michael S. Malone
• Apple: The First 50 Years (2026) by David Pogue (Amazon, Kobo, Apple Books)
• Steve Jobs (2011) by Walter Isaacson (Amazon, Used)

Originally released in Upgrade #609.

Get early access to full series, ad-free listening, and bonus episodes by becoming a member.

Submit Feedback