Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

We made sheet pan chicken tonight with Brussels sprouts, potatoes, and fig jam. I am going to make this one of my exclusive Substack recipes, as it was really tasty. Subscribers get access to my archive of 70 exclusive recipes.

We started with chicken thighs and oiled, salted, and peppered them. Then we cut red potatoes and Brussels sprouts in half and tossed them with a fig jam, Dijon mustard, Balsamic vinegar, Thyme, Rosemary and olive oil. We reserved 1/4 cup of marinade and put our sheet pan in the oven at 400 for 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, we turned the heat up to 450. We tossed the veggies, glazed the chicken with the reserved marinade, and cooked for 15 more minutes until the chicken was cooked and the veggies were crisp and roasted.

Here is an official recipe:

Fig Jam-Glazed Sheet Pan Chicken Thighs with Brussels Sprouts and Potatoes

Crispy chicken thighs glazed with fig jam, Dijon, and balsamic, roasted on one pan with caramelized Brussels sprouts and red potatoes.

INGREDIENTS

For the Chicken

• 1 pounds bone-in, skin-on chicken thighs (4 thighs)

• 2 teaspoons olive oil, for the chicken

• 1 teaspoon kosher salt, for the chicken

• 1/2 teaspoon black pepper, for the chicken

For the Vegetables

• 1 pound small red potatoes, halved

• 1 pounds Brussels sprouts, trimmed and halved

For the marinade

• 2/3 cups fig jam

• 2 Tbsp Dijon mustard

• 1 Tbsp balsamic vinegar

• 1/4 cup olive oil, for the marinade

• 1 Tbsp fresh thyme leaves

• 1 Tbsp fresh rosemary, finely chopped

• 1 teaspoon kosher salt, for the vegetables

• 1 teaspoon black pepper, for the vegetables

Instructions

1. Preheat: Heat the oven to 400°F. Line a large rimmed sheet pan with a Silpat silicone mat, foil, or parchment for easier cleanup.

2. Season the chicken: Pat 1-1.5 pounds bone-in, skin-on chicken thighs (4 thighs) dry with paper towels. Rub with 2 teaspoons olive oil, for the chicken and season all over with 1 teaspoon kosher salt, and 1/2 teaspoons black pepper, for the chicken.

3. Make the fig marinade: Whisk 2/3 cups fig jam, 2 Tbsp Dijon mustard, 1 Tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1/4 cup olive oil, for the marinade, 1 Tbsp fresh thyme leaves, 1 Tbsp fresh rosemary, finely chopped, 1 teaspoon kosher salt, for the vegetables, and 1 teaspoon black pepper, for the vegetables in a large bowl. Set aside 1/4 cup of the marinade in a small bowl for glazing the chicken later.

4. Toss the vegetables: Toss the Brussels sprouts and potatoes, trimmed and halved, in a large bowl with the remaining marinade and toss to coat.

5. Arrange the pan: Spread the vegetables on the sheet pan, placing the potatoes and Brussels sprouts amongst the chicken thighs skin side up.

6. Roast at 400°F for 30 minutes.

7. Increase the oven to 450°F. Toss the vegetables on the pan, then brush the chicken with the reserved 1/4 cup marinade.

8. Finish roasting: Roast 15 minutes more, until the chicken reaches 175°F inside and the vegetables are crisp and caramelized.

9. Rest and serve: Let rest 5 minutes. Spoon any pan juices over the chicken and vegetables, and garnish with extra thyme if you like.

Substitutions:

* Apricot or cherry jam works in place of fig.

* Scatter with chopped parsley and finish with crumbled goat cheese or toasted walnuts for a dinner-party version.

Thank you to everyone who tuned into my live video to cook dinner tonight! Join me for my next live video in the app on 11/13 6pm CST.

Also, I'll see you at the Becker Library 11/9!

Stephanie Hansen's @StephaniesDish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

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Thank you to everyone who tuned into my live video! Join me for my next live video in the app.

Get the marinated goat cheese and other recipes at stephaniesdish.com

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Get Reservations at Charlie’s Restaurant

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Open Seatings to the Public

* Dinner Tuesday - Friday, 5 pm - 7:15 pm

* Charlie’s Bar Open until 9 pm

Non-members can join for cocktails at the iconic Charlie’s Bar until 9 pm or for full dinner service with seatings available Tuesday through Friday from 5 pm to 7:15 pmMake a Non-Member ReservationTo make a same-day reservation, please call us at 612-332-2292.

ORIGINAL EDITED TRANSCRIPT

Stephanie Hansen (00:00.664)

Hi, welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space. And today I’m actually recording from the Minneapolis Club. I had a little internet trouble at home, so I’m a member here and, coincidentally, I'm recording today with Michael Lopata, Executive Chef and Director of the Culinary Program at the Minneapolis Club. Welcome to the podcast, Michael.

Michael Lopata (00:21.117)

Thank you so much. Good to have you here, literally and figuratively.

Stephanie Hansen (00:25.352)

Yes, thank you. I am glad to be here too. I hosted a really powerful event last week, I thought, about women in food. Fellow member Beth Dooley , who is a cookbook writer. She’s written so many great books. She was there. Joy summers , a food critic for the Star Tribune, and my radio partner, Stephanie March , the founder of the Salt Cure Recovery Fund for Restaurant Recovery. It was really just such a great panel. And we had a lot of opportunity to talk about food from the intersection of chefs, farmers, product producers, people that write about, and home cooking. And that day you made something so delicious. You made one of my favorite things. Did you know I love a beef short rib?

Michael Lopata (01:16.955)

No, but I wouldn’t trust you if you said you didn’t. So it was nice to kind of live in the center lane of the highway there, but also be able to put something out there. I’ve said for years, as long as I’ve been doing this, there are those corporate Monday-through-Friday lunches with chicken, mashed potatoes, and asparagus, and that fits the bill. But I wanted to do something a little bit more fun. I definitely want to touch on something that you said about the intersection of food and chefs, but

it’s always easier when we’re cooking people’s favorite food. It makes my job and my team’s job so much easier. So I’m glad we I’m glad we hit that mark.

Stephanie Hansen (01:50.763)

it was so delicious. And I had mine packed up to go because obviously when I was speaking I couldn’t eat, and I was sitting down in a little side room kind of off of Charlie’s restaurant here, which is open to the public Thursday through Sunday. So, Thursday through Saturday, did I get the hours right?

Michael Lopata (02:11.843)

Tuesday through Saturday for dinner. Yep. Yep.

Stephanie Hansen (02:14.732)

People don’t realize they can come to the Minneapolis Club and eat this delicious food at Charlie’s. You also have a beautiful patio. It’s getting to be fall now, but the patio is lovely during patio season. yeah, I had a lot of great comments about the food that day, so well done.

Michael Lopata (02:35.762)

Thank you so much. I caught the very end of you and Beth and Joy and Stephanie and

you know, as soon as that food was out, we actually had an event on the second floor, but we’re rushing through it because I love listening to people talk about their passion. Whether I’m getting my oil changed and it’s somebody who just graduated from auto tech school and he’s excited about the next 20 years of his life, and I’m driving away thinking, I’m glad that guy loves cars more than I do. But it’s always nice to listen and exciting for me, especially because this is my passion. And this is what I’ve dedicated the last twenty-five years of my life to: listening to four just exponentially great voices in this in the Minneapolis food scene and beyond. Two quick things. I moved here from Seattle in January 2022. And then when you work at a place like the Minneapolis Club that has that rich history and that tradition, the expectation is, you know

The ins and outs of Midwest food, you know the history of the club. And a lot of times I’m teaching Tuesday morning what I learned Monday night. So if I have to listen to you, talk to Beth, and have those experiences, it’s a win-win for me because I get to talk to somebody who’s passionate, and I also get to learn. And that’s that’s the best part about this job. So as I was listening to you all talk, I kept hearing, over and over again, everybody referencing what I say at all my interviews and all my wine dinners.

The food tastes better when it has a story. And y’all were just telling the story of food for an hour. And I I didn’t want the day to end. I love hearing that. Every time you have a story for food, it always tastes better. And if you can relate it to those those certain aspects of of what people are eating and why they’re eating it, it’s always gonna make the food better. So really, really fun event, as you said, and it was just amazing to hear four people so passionate about what we do here. Bring some light to some things that maybe a lot of people don’t see and don’t know about the restaurant business.

Stephanie Hansen (04:32.104)

When you're putting menus together here, you guys have a pretty robust lunch business because you have a built-in clientele; obviously, a lot of events and people are here. The club is very active during the day. But how would you describe evening service, and what kind of food do you think is appealing for the evening guest? That’s a little bit different.

Michael Lopata (04:56.786)

Yeah, it’s it’s different. It’s a challenge, and that’s kind of what makes it fun. There are challenges and obstacles in this world, in this business, and in life. And I think challenges are what you overcome, and I think obstacles are the excuses you make to keep you from doing something. So when you’re when you’re at a private club, a lot of times you are able to do those fun events for the members. We could turn Charlie’s into a barbecue restaurant every Tuesday night in the winter. But if you have a family of four, like last weekend,

It looked like a daycare in here because there was a child, like a kid focused event at at Orchestra Hall and we were slinging chicken tenders and mac and cheese and pepperoni pizzas. but you have to lean into that and say we are open to the public. There are a lot of places that you are not able to bring your kids into, we’re not able to bring your family to if you’re not a member. And and we wanna we wanna bring those people in and let them experience the club in the hopes that they can see all the things that that the club offers in addition to just coming in for dinner.

On those nights during the week. So at lunch, you hit it perfectly. We have the clientele. We have Monday through Friday, the business, the lawyers, the politicians. Let’s get them in, let’s get them some lunch, and let’s get them back to work. So we don't have a lot of fireworks on our lunch menu, and you don’t need them. You want a salmon salad, you want a burger, you want it cooked right, you want it served fast, you want to get on with your day. Dinner is kind of our opportunity to

To kind of bring up some new things to do, like that braised short rib dish that you had. When that walks to a table with the smoked cheddar polenta that we did last fall, that’s a showstopper. And somebody’s asking, What is that? And I need that. I don’t even know what it is, but I want it. And so when we have the dinner menus that we change two or three times a year, it’s really an opportunity to reach out to people and say, This is the time to come in and it gives us time to flex our culinary muscle, or, you know, it gives us an opportunity to showcase.

Something that we’re not able to do during that lunch crowd. And I think that’s the great part about the challenge of being open to the public and to the members: we have an opportunity to impress people every single day when they walk in the door, and that’s an opportunity that we lean into with dinner service for sure.

Stephanie Hansen (07:02.72)

You’ve been here since 2022, and in the Minneapolis scene, are there restaurants you love or that inspire you?

Michael Lopata (07:12.814)

Absolutely. when I first moved out here, I was the chef at a country club in White Bear. Loved my time there. I cook to support a golf habit. So anytime I can get out on the golf course is it’s a win-win for me. love my time there, but when the Minnesota Vikings call, you take that call and you go work for them. I’m a washed-up college baseball player, so there’s a natural fit between the first 20 years of my life working to become a baseball player and then the last 20 years of my life cooking. but I I tell everybody.

you can only cook chicken tenders for Justin Jefferson so many times before you realize there might be a little something more to the culinary landscape and scene that you want to get yourself into. and so for me, when I came to the Minneapolis Club, I had the exact same conversation with the the GM that hired me. I was like, I I’m in a I’m in a world of hurt. I I know that I can cook, but I’m coming into a scene. I’ve spent so much time in kitchens, in restaurants, during training camp.

During the hundred days of hell between Memorial Day and Labor Day, when your golf course is open, the pool’s open, and it’s a madhouse at the country club, I need a line item in my budget so I can go out and experience the Minneapolis food scene. More so, so I know what our members expect when they come to our restaurant. I want to know what Daniel’s doing at Porzana. I want to know what’s going on at Dario. A, I’m inquisitive, and I love food, but I want to see that this is the expectation for what

this costs, or this is the expectation for what the menu should flow like so that it’s not that completely out of touch and out of the realm, and it doesn’t have this stigma of being a private club that nobody is welcome at. So that’s a challenge for us because we are a private club. We are a social club, but we want to be approachable, and I think with our new marketing pushes, getting people in the door is about letting them see what this club has to offer.

But yes, any night that I can, I can convince my GM that I need to go out and see what’s going on at Oceanair, or I need to go to, you know, Manny’s Boucheron. I’m absolutely taking the opportunity to do that. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (09:16.323)

What is something you’ve put on the menu or cooked here that you didn’t think would go over well, but it was a hit?

Michael Lopata (09:24.566)

The bolognese in the middle of summer, I think, is very funny to me. But there’s a story behind it. The first restaurant I ever worked at was an Italian-owned restaurant owned by a second-generation Italian family, the Di Alessandro family. The first thing I learned to make was rigatoni bolognese. And you know, you put the mirepoix in the food processor, and you buzz it up; you put the pancetta in until it looks like cotton candy. And you know, I’ve been eating spaghetti and meatballs my whole entire life.

Life, but I remember taking a bite of that for the first time. And I thought to myself, I didn’t know food could taste like this. I want everybody, at some point in their life, to experience what I did at 22: eating bolognese for the first time. So at every restaurant I worked at, it didn’t matter the season; when I lived in Hawaii, we had bolognese on the menu, and everybody was asking me, "What’s this bolognessi?" I have no idea what this is. But getting a bunch of Hawaiians to eat bolognese was one of my greatest accomplishments.

But in the middle of summer when it’s ninety degrees out, nobody wants a braised meat dish. Nobody wants, you know, your crockpots on in the middle of June and July. But I always have an iteration of bolinas on the menu. Once our servers understood that story and could go out and talk to the tables about it, we started selling bolognese. You would think we were an Olive Garden in here with the amount of bolognese that goes out here in the summer. So I love things like that. When you can actually put the why behind what you’re doing.

And even if it didn’t sell, you know, I know the chef, and he’s a pretty cool guy, but he loves his bolognese. So it was always gonna be on the menu regardless. But I’m glad we’re able to move it. It makes me feel better.

Stephanie Hansen (10:54.775)

Is there something you cook that you can’t stand cooking?

Michael Lopata (10:58.406)

Mushrooms. I don’t get I don’t understand you know, and and this is a very funny conversation between my my wife and I is a lot of times as as I’ve I don’t want to say all chefs because there are definitely some that probably don’t wean this way, but we cook the food the way that we wanna eat it, with the way that we want it to taste.

I love acidic food. I probably put way too much lemon juice, lime, or vinegar in my food. I have five different vinegars at my house, and they don’t show up. It’s because they’re all making their way into the pot by the end of the dish. But I have a propensity to make food the way that I want it to taste. Things like mushrooms, I know that no matter what I do, they’re not gonna be good. I don’t want them. I’m not gonna eat them. So I just get out of the way, and I cook it fine, and I seize it fine, and I’m saying, somebody’s gonna like this, and they end up being the great dish of the whole thing. And it’s like,

Guys, I put four hours into this thing over here, and this is the love of my life. And they’re like, Yeah, but your stuffed mushrooms are great. I was like, Guys, it’s Borsin and mushrooms. Of course it’s good. So there are some funny things about cooking. It’s like sometimes the harder you try, the more it’s like golf, the law of diminishing returns. Sometimes you just gotta get out of the way of the food, cook it, do the right thing, do right by it, and it’ll reward you.

Stephanie Hansen (12:08.429)

Now you are in a club setting, so things like the holidays, Easter, brunch are big deal. You know, a lot of chefs hate cooking brunch and hate cooking that. Have you just embraced it and made it your own?

Michael Lopata (12:23.452)

I think yes and no. You know, I love my sleep on Saturday and Sunday mornings as much as the next guy. I love, I love being at a golf course and not being in the kitchen. But you know, I tell everybody this when they’re complaining about their job. It’s, you know, this is the job we signed up for. And, you know, if my idea of of working at the Minneapolis Club was that I wouldn’t be doing member events, that I wouldn’t be doing

Thanksgiving buffet, and then I’ve grossly underestimated A my intelligence and B my career path. So then if you lean into it, if you embrace it, and you understand that we have an opportunity in these club settings to cook for the people that are paying us to be there. You know every every day they’re they’re they’re making us an extension of their living room. They’re making us an extension of their kitchen table. And

once you go out and get to know members and you talk to them and you realize they just want a place to hang out and they’re proud of the food that we’re doing. And I tell some of my cooks, a lot of the time, just because these guys, just because our members are paying monthly dues, doesn’t mean they have to be here. They are coming here because of what we’re doing. And there are people here that are excited about the food that we’re making. That said, I’m glad we do one Santa Brunch a year. I’m glad we only have a couple of, you know, buffets where we’re here on the weekends and holidays because

At forty two I am married with kids and and I do enjoy my time away from the club. But I would much rather and and I cannot emphasize this enough, I’d much rather be here Thursday morning on Thanksgiving than at a restaurant until one o’clock, two o’clock in the morning, you know, shutting down a shutting down a bar and a fryer while all my buddies are out at the bar drinking. you know, I missed out on a lot when I was when I was doing this for the first little bit and pretty I I like I like where I’m at right now.

Stephanie Hansen (14:07.214)

Who taught you how to cook?

Michael Lopata (14:14.0)

Alton Brown. I played baseball on an athletic scholarship through college, and I had elbow surgery. And you know, we had the party house in college, and after everybody would go home, I would be falling asleep watching TV, and the Food Network would be on, and it was Alton Brown circa two thousand two, two thousand three. And I was just like, This is interesting and I would watch it, it would be like my every night. and then when my baseball career came to a

crashing and burning failure. I just said, you know what? I’m gonna work at a restaurant for a summer, and I’ll figure out what I’m gonna do with the rest of my life. But this is a summer job, six months at most. This is the longest summer job of my life, Stephanie. And I don’t know if anybody’s ever had a 25-year summer job, but you know, fast-forward to that restaurant, I was still paying student loans. I couldn’t afford to go to culinary school. My first wife and I, we had just gotten married. We were poorer than poor.

And so I would go home, and I’d read cookbooks. I’m just here for the food by Alton Brown. I would watch Good Eats, and I tell people that that was my culinary school. Then the chefs at those restaurants took time out of their day to show me how to hold a knife and how to cut a vegetable. I remember looking at a lot of applications, and it always said culinary school required. You know, you need to have graduated from a culinary school. And I always felt that I was at such a disadvantage.

But now what I like to see is that as those jobs are getting posted in 2026, there was a big, big shift: culinary school is no longer required because there are a lot of people that don’t have the means and the ability, whether it’s financial or time, to go to culinary school and make that sacrifice. And I told my son, who was thinking about doing this, is like, do not; we’re not paying for you to go to CIA on the chance that you might want to cook. Go work in a restaurant for two years, see if it’s what you want to do, and then we’ll make that sacrifice for you. So Alton Brown cookbooks, Thomas Keller, French Laundry, Bouchon Bakery, all those books, the books that tell a story, and then they have the food. I just read those cover to cover for the stories, and that was my culinary school.

Stephanie Hansen (16:19.287)

Yeah, I love cookbooks too. You and I have something in common: I didn’t graduate from college. I came from a family that was busy with a lot of kids. And I started college, and after about six months I was making more money being a cocktail waitress than I was doing anything else. And all of a sudden I was like, Well, I’m just gonna lean into this. I started doing events and working in the nightclub business

Then I started working in restaurants, and I always just liked home cooking and started doing it more, read a ton of cookbooks. And I think I got most of my cooking knowledge from cookbooks too. What are some of your like that you still have on your shelf that mean something to you?

Michael Lopata (17:07.558)

yeah. You know, as I said, the Thomas Keller series, obviously Anthony Bourdain’s Kitchen Confidential, is it there’s not a single recipe in there. But if you don’t if you don’t put down that book and you don’t want to jump into a kitchen on a Friday night, I I just I don’t know I I don’t know what else you could do. You know, if you don’t read that book and want to be in a kitchen, then this world is just not for you. But there is a Francis Maum in the Feast of Seven Fires.

Is a phenomenal cookbook because he takes something so basic, which is the thought of of actually burning food. It’s something we all do. Like we do it all the time. And most of the time it’s, well, we’re gonna throw that away. We’re gonna, we’re gonna start over. And Francis, he takes this approach to food where it’s like taking it past the point of being comfortable. And I remember reading that cookbook, and I’m thinking to myself, okay, we burn croutons all the time.

Bacon, pine nuts, and croutons are the three things that we all burn. There’s probably some bacon; if you smell bacon, it’s because we’re burning it on the third floor right now. But one day we burned some croutons, and my prep cook was about ready to throw them out. And I said, do me a favor: let’s take a very sweetened, you know, creme anglaise, throw some, throw some sweetened condensed milk in there. Let’s completely overdo the sweetness to counteract that bitterness. Let’s do a burnt crouton, a burnt bread pudding, and put it on the dessert menu.

And we did a bourbon caramel. Like, we’re kind of trying to cover up the fact that we burned it, but we’re also embracing the fact that you can have these flavors, and when they’re built correctly and on each other, you have something greater than if you had just toasted that bread nicely. So any cookbooks that kind of change the way that you think, I’ll never cook a Linea food. I know that. I know that what a Linea and next and everything that’s going on down there is so far above and beyond what I could even comprehend. I wouldn’t even understand the dinner if I went there. But just

forcing you to to think about food in a different way and giving you the opportunity to say, Nobody’s really inventing anything, but at the same time, everything is brand new at the same time. And it’s really, really fun way to to kind of read through cookbooks for sure.

Stephanie Hansen (19:12.523)

Yeah. And molecular gastronomy, I mean, that is like a whole thing in and of itself that I I’m glad it’s there. Grant Atchatz is amazing and Alinia is wonderful, but I don’t think that’s for me and necessarily how we’re supposed to cook to feed our bodies every day. I think that’s like a specialty thing.

Michael Lopata (19:34.171)

Absolutely. And I think there is a world where there are restaurants that you go to once or twice a year, once or twice maybe in your lifetime. I have still not gone to the French Laundry, but I know that if and when I do, it will be one of one, maybe one of two. The Minneapolis Club, you know, from a purely financial standpoint, we won't still be here six months from now if our members come once a week. If our members are coming once a lifetime. I mean that

Excuse me, that just doesn’t work for our model and us. Now we do have very fun nights. Daniel Olsen, our maître d', has a cabaret dinner, and we go for broke. We play, we do a baked Alaska; we go old school with tableside Caesar salad. But we’re not doing that every single night because that’s not what is going to be, you know, long-term success for Charlie’s.

Stephanie Hansen (20:26.852)

Yeah.

Michael Lopata (20:28.014)

And that is knowing your place and knowing what you are and knowing what you aren’t. Everybody wants the shelves with all the awards and all that stuff. I I always say I’m just trying to get home to my dog at the end of the day and I want to watch some football and and and and that is that is exactly, you know, what this club and what this opportunity provides for me. but if you had told me that at forty-two, when I was twenty-two, watching all my clipboard chefs walk around, I’d be like, my god, that’s guy’s just a washed-up sellout corporate chef, and he doesn’t know how to cook and

I know candidly there’s probably some guys in the kitchen that when I come down online they’re thinking the same thing, but you know, perspective is free and it’s a wonderful thing and and this is this is where I am and and this is this is what I what I’m looking for as as as an opportunity at at this point in my life and and it it all just kinda checks the boxes for me.

Stephanie Hansen (21:13.689)

Well, thanks for spending time with me today. I want people to re-experience the Minneapolis Club. I have real fond memories of being here as a kid at Easter time, at the Christmas buffets. my mom and dad used to come here for dinner. So I’m a fairly new member, more recently. It’s been lovely to be back in these rooms and to experience your food. Thank you so much for everything you’re doing for the club. I think people are really excited about the Minneapolis Club. It feels fresh and lively.

Michael Lopata (21:42.566)

And that’s the goal, right? We have a hundred-and-eight-year-old building, but we’re modern. We’re doing Pilates; we’re doing what we need to do to attract that membership. But there are also those, you know, those homages to the past and the things that you can remember when you were here with your grandparents or your parents, and we want to kind of live on both sides of that equation. And you know, we’re really trying, and I appreciate

you saying that and appreciate you, you know, being a part of this and coming and having that speaker series. It’s always my hope, and I always say it after every dinner, that my cooks are better for what you allowed them to do today. I hope people left the room with a better understanding of, you know, what our business is and what the industry is and what y’all have dedicated your lives to and your professional lives to making people aware of what is, you know, what is really a really hard business. And you know, we do it the best we can, and we try the next day again.

Stephanie Hansen (22:33.921)

Yeah. Thank you for what you’re doing. I appreciate you and I’ll see you soon. You’re up third floor.

Michael Lopata (22:38.406)

Sounds good. I’ll d I’m I’m one floor above you. I’ll come down and see ya. Thank you so much, Stephanie. Bye.

Stephanie Hansen (22:43.297)

Okay. All right. Bye bye, Michael.

Stephanie Hansen's @StephaniesDish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit https://stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

My friend Rebecca Blackwell, whom I met through Substack and who has been such a resource and inspiration in my food writing career, turned the tables on me by interviewing me for a coffee chat as part of her Mastermind for Food Writers series. We could have talked for hours!

* If you are wondering how to get started on a new creative endeavor, this might inspire you.

* If you have ever been insecure in your career pursuits, this might give you some courage.

* If you are curious about building your own brand ecosystem, this might give you some ideas.

As a creator and broadcaster, I love hearing others'. stories, and when the microphone turns the other way, It turns out I have a lot to say about the process of being a creator myself. I hope you enjoy our coffee chat!

If you come here for the recipes - I have one of those for you too! My Crockpot Sausage and Tortelloni Soup as we are on day 21 of Crocktober! Crock On Friends.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit https://stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

Jeremy Messersmith, an indie pop folk singer-songwriter, joins us this week on Dishing with Stephanie's Dish. Known for his quirky style and engaging performances, Jeremy shares insights from his musical journey and his newfound passion for baking during the pandemic.

Get Tickets for the Show and Listen to Fox Coyote byJeremy Messersmith on Spotify

ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT FOLOWS

Stephanie Hansen (00:00.728)

Hello everybody and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to cool people in the food space. They can be in any spaces. I’m here today with, as my friend Sarah calls you, my boy band crush,Jeremy Messersmith. You are my first musician on the program, friend.

Jeremy Messersmith (00:21.41)

Well, it’s good to good to be here.

Stephanie Hansen (00:21.544)

I’m trying to describe you - I mean people would say you’re like an indie pop folk singer songwriter, perhaps.

Jeremy Messersmith (00:35.436)

Yeah, I think that’s fair. it I describe myself as you I’m basically just another white guy with an acoustic guitar, is mostly what I do. I think what I end up writing to me just seems like very normal songs, but people do describe it as a quirky, let’s say. Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (00:51.85)

Yeah. There is kind of a and I hope you take this as a compliment. There is sort of like a a little bit of a Ben Folds vibe. But

Jeremy Messersmith (01:02.526)

yeah. I yeah, I I definitely take that. Yeah, I take that as a as a high compliment. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (01:09.066)

The first time I think I became aware of you was probably at a New Standards holiday show. And it might have been, well, I honestly, it could have been like 15 years ago that was the first time. And you came out, and since then you’ve appeared many times, sometimes with the ukulele, sometimes just singing fantastical, crazy songs.

Jeremy Messersmith (01:16.718)

Yeah.

Jeremy Messersmith (01:37.175)

Yeah. Yeah. That’s true. The New Standards have been quite generous over the years in letting me crash their their holiday show and sometimes it’s a song that I pitch for them and sometimes they want me to to come in and sing a song and I I try to we generally try to shake it up and do something that’s f fairly funny and provocative maybe at the same time.

Stephanie Hansen (01:59.584)

Well, and I have to say you have also blown up in my mind in the food space a little bit here because you seem to like have made a decision about something. And tell me if you think I’m right. I feel like, okay, COVID was just a hellish time, right? And particularly horrible for musicians because you couldn’t be out on the road doing what you do.

And I think it’s fair to say most musicians that tour at all were just going crazy. And you all seem to have like created some self-discovery through the social media channels. And those social media channels for a lot of musicians are like a blessing and a curse at the same time because you need them to sell records. But also many musicians are actually kind of can be introverted and a little quirky and.

So putting yourself out there in that way feels so weird. But I feel like I don’t know, like in the last year, have you made a concerted effort to just like throw caution to the wind and get out there?

Jeremy Messersmith (03:11.146)

Yes, yes I have. And it’s mostly just because I have a a new record out, released in in April. It’s called Fox Coyote and I just play I play all kinds of little games with myself and I realize that Part of my job as a musician, if I care about my my art, my craft, is I need to just go where people are. And that’s something I’ve always tried to do in my career. And if that is social media, then so be it. I will I will pop on there. And so back in April I I had a little challenge with myself and it was I’m going to make like, you know, an Instagram reel every day for like a month or something. And then if if I do that, then I’m gonna go take myself out to eat at a very nice restaurant.

You know, like that was my little reward to myself. And it was challenging because, you know, how much of yourself do you really want to share with people? And I found that what was most comfortable to me was usually things based around kind of projects. either, here’s what I was thinking, putting together an outfit for today. And it’s just stuff I would be doing anyway, but just like sharing it with folks. And a lot of that ended up being baking, which is something that started back during the pandemic for me, really. I I’ve always done a little bit of cooking and and been handy around the kitchen, but but during the pandemic we all had kind of different stabs at at sanity, let’s say. And I s for me it was I started baking my way through Sarah Kiefer’s book One Hundred Cookies, and I just baked cookies and I made little videos for for all of them and

Had a great time doing that. And it made me very, very popular with my neighbors because I was baking more cookies than any one person could could reasonably eat. And it was just a very fun, fun project. And I’ve still kind of continued it to this day. I still I don’t do them as often, but I usually do a bake about once a week, maybe maybe twice a week, sometimes depending on the audience, and yeah, have a great time.

Stephanie Hansen (05:08.938)

It’s also Sarah Kiefer was one of the first guests on my show, Taste Buds, in the first year. And I love to tell this story because we went to her house. And, you know, Sarah is extremely successful, but also kind of shy. And we went to record at her house. And we were in this really cool mid-century modern kitchen. And she had pink appliances and Everything was so decked out. And then at some point she was like, I have to get something across the street. And I was like, wait a second, is this a stunt house? And indeed, it is. She has like a whole baking studio. They bought a house. Her her father-in-law lives in the first level. So I mean it’s

Jeremy Messersmith (05:48.078)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Jeremy Messersmith (06:01.518)

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (06:03.208)

A multi generational situation, but I was like, this is the most amazing thing ever. She has a stunthouse.

Jeremy Messersmith (06:08.929)

God. I love that. I love that. That is that is fantastic. I did not know that. I’ve not seen the stunthouse. I’ve not seen it.

Stephanie Hansen (06:17.536)

It’s pretty cool. And her books, I mean, the whole banging of the pan really hard for chocolate chip cookies. I feel like we’ve now long since attributed it to Sarah. She was one of the first pan bangers. And just her technique is really delicious with cookies. Where I saw you

Jeremy Messersmith (06:29.655)

Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (06:38.164)

was you were involved with my friend Stephanie March, my radio partner. She did a fundraising event for her salt cure fund and you made lemon bars. Tell me about your lemon bars.

Sure. well I went on a bit of a lemon bar quest because you know, it was me contributing some bars to this fundraiser, but you know, I’m

I’m just a musician guy. Like I don’t I’m not I’m not a professional chef. I’ve never written a cookbook. I’ve never even developed a recipe. So but I do like to be fairly diligent in what I sign up to do. So I knew I wanted to do lemon bars because they’re just my favorite. They’re just in any time of year. Just a lemon bar is is great. And so I had about I th I wanna say a couple months or six weeks before I had to bake the bars. So I just made so many lemon bars and I combed the internet for recipes for lemon bars and tried

just about every kind of lemon bar that I could get my hands on before I kinda kind of found what to me what I want in a lemon bar, which is like one with that’s got like kind of a like a nice kind of custard like on the like, you know, it’s a little gooey. And I want it to be s so tart and tingly that I can I can barely eat it. You know? Like I want I want all of that. So I I think one of my favorites was was yeah bare barefoot Contessa I ended up loving.

The in a garden recipe is is probably close to one of my faves, but there are a bunch of other ones too, and now it’s turned into a thing where something I’ve also done for a lot of years is I play a lot of house shows, backyard shows, and porch, porch concerts, and I would say about 70 to 70 80 percent of them are also potlucks because I am as my manager says, I’m very food.

Focused or food oriented. It’s like unless unless there are like snacks there, I’m not really interested in going to whatever event there is. It’s really, it’s really embarrassing. It’s kind of shameful to admit, but that’s like the first thing I’m like, yeah, there’s people just probably cool. Let’s go look at the spread. let’s go, you know, let’s get some food. and so people have started to bring all sorts of lemon bars to the shows, which

I feel like I’m just running a huge scam. Basically, I show up to play some songs and people just arrive with with just cookies and lemon bars and I’m like, This I yeah, I I have no complaints as to the trajectory of my life. It’s been it’s been a really great summer, this one especially.

Stephanie Hansen (09:14.942)

It’s so great. okay, more reasons why I know you’re my person. Because Ina Garten is the one that you leveled up on and you sat sat there. She tests her recipes like 30 times for each recipe, and then she gives them to another group of recipe testers. You know, I am sadly as a Midwest home cook, also not a chef. I mean, if I can get a recipe made twice.

before I’m on to the next one because I’m just sort of like a squirrel with, you know, mental things going through my brain all the time and I’m producing so much content. She’s just like, she’s the master. also you mentioned that when you did your TikToks or your excuse me, your reels, we’ll not call them TikToks, every day for March, that you were going to treat yourself at a nice restaurant. I want to know where you went.

Jeremy Messersmith (10:38.291)

well, I I have a I have a favorite and I just I just god I got I just got goosebumps thinking about it because I I like the place so much. And it’s funny because I’ve only been there I think twice. And so it’s like I have to kind of save it for special things. But it’s but it’s of course Muriel over in over in St. Paul, which is if you don’t know it, is like it’s like the best

Stephanie Hansen (10:27.51)

Sure.

Jeremy Messersmith (10:38.291)

home cooked food that you’ll that you’ll have. It’s like done very well in not a pretentious way and lots of little touches like you’re kind of eating off of these very kind of like grandma ish plates and things and I just I just love it and it’s so cute and and cozy and yeah yeah that’s my that’s my spot

Stephanie Hansen (10:58.356)

It’s you’re also my person because of that, Jeremy, because I have said for probably the last five years, I feel like she was one of the most underrated chefs that we had in the Twin Cities because she’s very regular, she’s very unassuming, she’s got that Midwestern ethos of just kind of doing the work and not necessarily talking about it as much. But when you eat her pie, I mean, and when she talks to you about

Jeremy Messersmith (11:19.447)

Yes. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (11:28.108)

Dassel Cokato and all the makers there and the, you know, hand picked juniper berries that, you know, she knows from Farmer Jeff and then goes into a whole screed about Farmer Jeff and it it’s like there’s just nothing like it. And I’m so glad that people are starting to see her as a real talent, but also she’s getting some James Beard recognition and people are just really excited about her. So yes.

that is on my list of fancy fun places.

Jeremy Messersmith (12:01.983)

It’s just it’s a wonderful place and she’s also a great watercolor artist as well. I had a fri had a friend go to a a watercolor class that she was teaching there and I almost went and then I was very glad I didn’t when I saw like just the level that everyone was already at. I’m terrible at visual arts, so I like, I’m so glad I did not go to this. So glad. yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (12:21.298)

I’m trying to become a tea towel embroiderer, and I’ve taken a couple of classes, and it’s just not going well. You know, there’s just things that you want to do, but maybe you’re not great at. I also have this vision that I need to be discovering and throwing pottery so that I can make my own dishes for the show. So I asked a potter friend, and I was like, so like.

I don’t know if I signed up for like four classes. Do you think I could get good enough to make dishes for my show? And he was like, Well, if you’re an expert in the field, sure. He was like, Yeah, you’re he’s like, you’re better off just paying a potter to meet with you and make the dishes you want than thinking you’re gonna do it yourself.

Jeremy Messersmith (13:09.706)

Yeah. it is very fun. And I am a big proponent of really any art that you have an interest in doing, you should do because n not everything needs to be good. Like art is also part of how it changes us and especially pottery, which I I love and I’m terrible at. Terrible. But you know, you don’t even need a wheel. You can just do like pinch pots and they are just so gratifying. And something else I did during the pandemic was making pinch pots, one a pinch pot every day.

just to kind of help me, you know, make sense of the time and what was going on. And that was also very, very fun. And then I I I actually I fired a bunch of it and then I threw a a terrible pottery party and then made everyone leave with a piece of my just horrific ceramic work, which was is still still very fun. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (13:57.325)

This is great and a lemon bar probably.

Jeremy Messersmith (14:00.427)

Yeah. I I hadn’t gone on to the l I hadn’t discovered my lemon bar journey yet, but but they certainly left with some cookies for sure.

Stephanie Hansen (14:07.98)

You know what I love about you is outside of your musical artistry, obviously, and I I am still coming around to this idea that what I probably am is an entrepreneur and a creator. Cause I’ve had a number of businesses. I this is like my sixth career being in food. And I’m sensing kind of I’m hearing some of these vibes from you too about like

There’s this creativity that’s in you that you have to get out and it comes out in all these weird ways. And I was I’m always a little bit embarrassed about it. It’s like, cause I don’t see myself as really good at anything. I’m just trying lots of things and just kind of crazy and weird and fun. That does that like describe what it feels like to be a musician?

Jeremy Messersmith (14:56.01)

Yeah, I I think it does. Most musicians that I know, it it’s not like this is our, you know, one thing. Like we you know, we do all kinds of creative work and music is just one part of it. I was just watching an interview where David Bowie was talking about how he did not think of himself as a particularly original thinker.

But he was a great synthesizer of like other people’s ideas and things. So I think musicians or at least songwriters, like we’re you know you’re creating something from nothing and to do that you kinda have to

Tap into whatever you know kind of woo-woo collective unconsciousness thing you have where creativity comes from. And of course that can express itself in many forms. Of course, the most fun thing too is when you are doing something that feels like work, maybe you’re even writing a song that feels a little like work, and then then all of your little side hustles become way more fun to do. And all of a sudden it’s like, now I’m doing this absolutely you know illicit thing I should not be doing by making a pinch pot instead of writing a

song this morning and that feels great. So I think for a lot of us and I I wouldn’t speak for for you or for anyone else, but at least for me, the the ADHD runs fairly strong and I try to just embrace it wherever I can I can follow it.

Stephanie Hansen (16:15.102)

my husband’s a writer and I write cookbooks and the publishing industry has really gone through some kind of horrific times, not unlike the music business too. Do you this is a pretty personal question, but do you like worry about making money?

Jeremy Messersmith (16:34.572)

no, not really. mostly because I’ve I’ve never really minded being poor.

And there’s a way to be poor but be very rich in at least to me the things that matter, such as you know, walking into someone’s backyard where some a person likes you enough to invite you to their home to have you play for their friends, and there is a magnificent spread of food on the table. That’s really yeah, that’s really all I all all I want. So I don’t worry about it too much. Now, granted that is that is a luxury and I’ve I’ve worked hard over the years to be able

to to have enough where I don’t have to worry about it too much anymore. But that’s not really ever my my focus on why I do things. It’s always like, you know what would be cool would be if and then we kinda we kinda try to start from there. And monetization if there is a way to do it comes comes far too late for a lot of the a lot of the stuff that I like to do.

Stephanie Hansen (17:32.311)

Well, and I I asked that because I think a lot of people and it is a luxury, right? Like you have to have money to have I think one study that came out was like you need to make at the time it was sixty eight thousand dollars a year in order to have what they consider the happiness quotient, meaning, you know, you’ve got your basic needs met and then from there I I would imagine that probably has gone up in the last five years. But you know, for me

The money was always about the value and the worth of the work, not the money itself. And I didn’t learn that till later. And now I’m really right trying to give up that that you need to make money to have something be fun or worthwhile. And it’s it’s it’s hard. It’s a rewiring of my brain that I’m still working through.

Jeremy Messersmith (18:08.393)

It’s it’s a little bit hard. I I think I saw a quote one time, I wanna say it’s by Andy Warhol, that it it’s hard to judge the value of artistic work, when you live in America because and this is the this is the quote that I’m paraphrasing, Americans

show their love by by what they buy. That’s how like Americans know how to, you know, say, I like this or I like this, I love you is I’m gonna I’m gonna I’m gonna you know, I’m gonna buy the band T shirt. I don’t know how many band T shirts I bought that, you know, very much no longer fit anymore, but I still keep around and still paid for because I love that band and I want that money to go money to go to them.

Stephanie Hansen (19:05.377)

when we talk about your records, is you do you have ten?

Jeremy Messersmith (19:14.149)

I don’t know actually. That I mean I’ve got quite a few now. Yeah, that that that might be right actually.

Stephanie Hansen (19:19.592)

One of my favorite visual records just to look at, and I have it in my cabin, so I’m always in this really great frame of mine when I play it, is the late stage capitalism record. I love the graphic design of it. I love the color. The record itself is colored.

Jeremy Messersmith (19:38.28)

I have to do a quick pitch on this. that album artwork and for my ukulele album was done by my friend Phil Jones, who who is now does a bunch of work for Meowwolf, who designs all of their fake products at the Omega Mart in Las Vegas. And he himself is also is also a baker. we’ve been like potluck friends for a number of years and he

he only cooks vintage recipes like from like Better Homes and Gardens magazine from like from like the fifties and sixties. So half the time you’re like, I don’t know if this is good or this is clearly from another time. I don’t know how taste buds have evolved, but he is is also a creative who does all kinds of stuff, but is also a great baker.

Stephanie Hansen (20:14.772)

Yeah, for sure.

Stephanie Hansen (20:29.856)

It is Megamart like a store, but also kind of like a gallery in the arts district?

Mega Mart well is like a it’s a Meowolf installation in Vegas and it’s kind of like a an interdimensional interdimensional grocery store slash s sensory I I I I I’m not even using good words to describe it. It’s an experience, let’s let’s say. but all of the the fake products there made me made me laugh so hard. It’s like it’s like if the onion opened up a a a grocery store.

Stephanie Hansen (20:46.186)

It’s the grocery store. Yes, I’ve been there. Yeah

Yeah. It’s kind of like the weird Prada installation that they had in Marfa, Texas for a while. Just something unexpected and something weird in a weird place. And I love Vegas. and I love Vegas for I I very rarely gamble. I love it for like all the people it attracts and the artistry and the just weird collaboration of people that end up in this just godforsaken hot desert.

Jeremy Messersmith (21:35.063)

I have only recently begun spending some time in Vegas, and my first time there, it took two days for just the shock of how this place exists, and this needs to be returned to the desert, clearly. You know, what what hubris of man has led to this has led to this city. And then and then I was kinda like, it is it is a bit of okay, I I think I kind of like that attitude a l a little bit. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (22:02.506)

Yeah, it is a it’s a place for dreamers and making strange things happen. And I I don’t know. I’ve always liked it because of that. And I I don’t even like the desert. I don’t like places like Arizona. My husband’s obsessed with Utah. And you know, hiking’s fine, but when it’s a hundred and ten and you see scorpions and stuff that’s trying to kill you, I’m just like, no, thank you. I’m going back to Ely.

Well, this has been this has been super fun. I wanna encourage and promote your reels and your putting yourself out there because the number one thing that I read about social media is that people just they don’t do it. They don’t try. They they just don’t pick up their phone, they’re anxious, they’re scared, they don’t wanna look stupid. And I find you very entertaining and I was glad to see you working with the current this summer.

Jeremy Messersmith (22:37.276)

thanks.

Stephanie Hansen (22:58.644)

I every state fair food being a ten out of ten, I might have to take issue with, but you know.

Jeremy Messersmith (23:07.081)

Yeah, I apparently any food that I’m putting in my mouth is a ten out of ten. Well, I’m like I’m like Winnie the Pooh. No, I yeah, I’m like Winnie the Pooh when it comes to like rating foods. the best, you know, day is well, today, obviously. Yeah, that’s the the only day we ever have. So I’m like that with State Fair Food. And that was a a lot of fun. I was also very pleased that Minnesotans were so generous with their with their sweet Martha’s cookies. I knew I knew they would be. I knew they would be. But

Stephanie Hansen (23:33.409)

Yeah, you pretty much can walk up to anyone at the fair and ask them for anything they’re eating. I’ve done this for numerous television shows and just s sometimes you just sit down and you want to share so that you know you can have a taste of the new fair food and not have to wait in line. My friend Stephanie March is a known butter. She does not stand in line. She buds. And she sh she’s the butter of the highest order.

Jeremy Messersmith (23:58.491)

She really wow. I I could never and if I go back and do that, I’m gonna yeah, that makes me nervous to think about and if I go back next year I realize that’s what I’m gonna have to do. I’m gonna have to ask people if I can if I can butt in line. my god that’s whew

Stephanie Hansen (24:04.98)

Same, I’m sweating.

Just bring her along as your sidekick. And she she just does it too, where like people don’t even really know she’s doing it. She’s kind of little and she just sort of is all of a sudden there and I’m in the back, just waiting at the end of the line, and she’ll bring me the thing and be like, You don’t have to wait. I got it. It’s right here. She’s hilarious.

Jeremy Messersmith (24:39.346)

I d I I could never. I have to it’s it’s it’s it’s just for me, it just would be terrible for optics, you know. I must I must wait in every line. I can’t be I can’t be do I’m l I’m like a neighborhood singer songwriter. I can’t be like d hey, let me just butt in line. No, I could I I couldn’t do it. Couldn’t do it.

Stephanie Hansen (24:54.334)

Yeah. Hilarious. what do you have coming up? Or talk a little bit more about Fox Coyote, which is the record you’re promoting, so we can sell some records for you, or shows, or whatever you’d like to promote.

Jeremy Messersmith (25:06.452)

Sure. Well I have a new album out called Fox Coyote and it’s eleven

songs that I would say are a little bit quirky, a little bit a little bit funny. And I think my my next shows that I have coming up, I have a slew of All Hollows Eve Halloween shows. October twenty-third, twenty-fourth at the Fitzgerald Theater, and then on October thirtieth at the Sheldon Theater in Red Wing. And we try to outdo ourselves every year with it. I think of it as kind of like like a much more knockoff budget, new standards holiday show, but but

Stephanie Hansen (25:40.927)

Yeah, like a variety show.

Jeremy Messersmith (25:41.202)

Halloween. Yeah, it’s like a variety show, loads of secret guests. last year we had a whole section with that was just like we did ska, which was which was very fun. This year we have kind of a big surprise. I can’t say anything about it really, but it’s gonna involve a lot of people and it’s gonna be a a very good time. So I think I think those are my my things coming up. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (26:04.439)

That’s so fun. Okay, I’m gonna just there’s you know how you put things out in the universe and then either intention or however just works and they happen. I have this idea and I’m gonna tell it to you that I wanna do a variety show. Like some skits, some cooking, some music.

Jeremy Messersmith (26:10.343)

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (26:30.755)

Funny costumes, almost like a new standards holiday show, but with food as the primary driver. And like, you know how they have like those Korean cooking shows where they’re with the knives and they’re tossing things and it’s very visual. And then I just imagine like dancing bananas coming down the row. And like what, like, I don’t know, people in the audience can, we can like

Jeremy Messersmith (26:36.358)

Yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, okay.

Stephanie Hansen (26:58.773)

have them come up and give them secret ingredients and they have to make things on the spot. I just feel like this could really be this bringing the music, the food, the costuming, the color, because so many community things are around food and just bringing it into the Zeitgeist, probably at the Parkway theater. I saw Anna Geyser perform last holiday season and I was like, yes. And I can’t really sing or dance or do anything other than make funny bits and maybe make other people look funny. I don’t know, but I could see it.

Jeremy Messersmith (27:32.542)

Yeah, yeah. yes.

I think that can totally happen and now my brain is spinning off in that direction. I think you basically kinda described what might be fun would be like kind of like Midwest Iron Chef the musical. And you could you could bring in all kinds of like improv performers to improv songs as perhaps different local celebrity chefs are concocting things, you know, and then, you know, the audience or will will judge it. I mean th there’s so many so many ways you c Yes, yes.

Stephanie Hansen (27:46.616)

Yes.

Yeah, like a potluck party too, but the potluck is the music as well as the food and you know, like everyone’s got weird little instruments. Like I just really feel this vibe. So

Jeremy Messersmith (28:07.962)

Yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Communal cooking and com communal cooking and communal singing, to be honest, are the absolute two best human activities. Okay, I’ll throw in dancing as well, but if there’s any kind of like body movement as well. If there’s movement, there’s music and there’s food, like that’s it. That’s life. That’s that’s living that’s what I want to do.

Stephanie Hansen (28:29.217)

Yeah. All right. Well, you are the good for good person. I’ve tested this theory. Okay. Erin Schwab, who’s a performer and a singer. I’ve I’ve thrown this out with her. And then my other friend, Erin, who she’s an actress. So you’re the third person, but it’s coalescing. I don’t know how I’m gonna put it together, but I just have this idea that it could be super fun. And what’s more Midwestern than like potluck, casserole, and a bunch of people hanging around singing?

Jeremy Messersmith (28:40.65)

Okay.

yeah. yeah. incredible. Incredible. Yeah. that is so my wheelhouse that yes, of course, I’m I’m I’m in whatever you need. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (29:06.027)

Okay, let’s let’s get something together. Thank you so much for being a guest. You’re my first musician. I’ve always been kind of intimidated to ask anybody that’s not food people. And it was great. We had a lot in common, a lot to talk about and super fun.

Jeremy Messersmith (29:14.438)

sure. yeah. We sure did. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for reaching out. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (29:22.507)

Yeah, I also want people to get your record because it’s amazing and get tickets to your shows. I am gonna come to the October show. I think I’d heard about it, but I just never followed through. So I’m gonna do that and we’ll talk soon. Okay, thanks.

Jeremy Messersmith (29:30.394)

great.

Yeah. Cool. Sounds good. Thanks. Thanks Stephanie. Bye.

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In this episode, Stephanie Hansen chats with Emily Vikre, owner of Vikre Distilleryand author of the new book Cabin Cocktails. Emily shares insights into her journey as a cookbook writer and distiller.

The Art of Cocktail Creation

Emily’s fourth book, Cabin Cocktails, features 70 seasonal cocktails, including mocktails, that celebrate the beauty of outdoor experiences. She reflects on how intuitive cooking differs from the precision required in cocktail making:

“I do find cooking recipes hard to write down for me. Especially because as a cook, I’m very intuitive... I go by those sensory inputs.”

Emily emphasizes that while cooking can be forgiving, cocktails require strict adherence to measurements for the best results. “Cocktails can be very unforgiving if you don’t have a good recipe and if you don’t follow it,” she explains.

Sense of Place

The conversation moves into the heart of what makes Vikre Distillery unique: the water sourced from Lake Superior. Emily discusses how this element influences the flavor and character of her spirits on this week’s “Dishing With Stephanie’s Dish”Podcast.

Stephanie Hansen (00:01.038)

Hello everybody and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space. And today I am here with Emily Vikre. And she is the owner of Vikre Distillery up in Duluth and also makes a whole host of beautiful, beautiful spirits. I’m a big fan. But Emily also is a cookbook writer. And in her case, she has written this is your fourth book, isn’t it?

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Emily (00:31.574)

Yes, it is. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (00:33.814)

Okay, four books and four cookbooks in particular is pretty amazing. This last book is called Cabin Cocktails, and it has 70 seasonal cocktails for year-round drinks, and there’s mocktails too, I want to point out, because a lot of people are looking for mocktail options. I’m curious, you’ve had so many books. So you I’m just gonna kind of go through your canon here. You have Camp Cocktails, which was a great book and is

Emily (00:47.984)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Emily (00:59.738)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (01:04.03)

still sold all over. It’s usually a lot of places where the True North Cabin cookbook is. We’re right next to each other, which yeah, I love. And then Cabin Cocktails, which is the new book. Then you have On the Trail, which was a new camp cookbook about easy-to-pack meals, kind of more about like taking your family actually camping and how to orchestrate that. And that book was great. And then you have another book called Fireside Warmers that had drinks.

Emily (01:09.166)

Yes, right. All those outdoorsy places.

Emily (01:24.988)

Mm. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (01:33.354)

Sweets. So you’ve done both cocktails, and you’ve done food books. Is one easier for you than the other?

Emily (01:38.811)

Yes. Ooh, that’s a great question. both things are things that I think cut like kind of come naturally to me to talk about, to storytell about, to develop recipes for. So in that way, one isn’t necessarily harder than the other. But I will say I do find like cooking recipes hard to write down for me.

Especially because as a cook, I’m very like intuitive in my cooking. And when I’m cooking for myself or my family, I don’t measure anything, I don’t time anything. I go by those like sensory inputs. And so it’s hard then when you’re writing a cookbook to really slow yourself down and say, okay, how much did I use here? Check my time, how long did that go for? Give it to other people to test it. and because my

Cookbooks right now have really been more about outdoor cooking and camping cooking, which isn’t even like the bulk of the cooking I do, but it is something that I enjoy. There is a whole part where you have to give that sensory feedback anyway, because everybody’s fires fires a little bit wild. So you have to learn to work with it. and then conversely for cocktails, I treat it much more like baking, where very precise. I’m measuring everything and so what those ones I have like the recipes kind of already dialed and written in a format that works for a cookbook already more easily. and this most recent book, yeah, just flowed.

Stephanie Hansen (03:11.414)

It’s funny that your your description of this whole thing is the exact reason why I have a hard time writing cocktails. Cause I feel like it’s so much easier to write a recipe than and you get like, you know, different flavor profiles and you know

Emily (03:20.228)

Mm-hmm, interesting.

Stephanie Hansen (03:32.042)

salt to taste, like okay. But like with cocktails, the level of sweet, the level of acid, the level of sour, the level of bitter feels so much more precise, just like baking to me.

Emily (03:43.109)

Yes, right. Cocktails can be very unforgiving if you don’t have if you haven’t developed a good recipe and if you don’t follow the recipe for sure. And you know, when people ask like, why didn’t my cocktail turn out? I’m like, well, first question, did you measure? Did you actually shake it when it’s had to shake it? you know, can you can wiggle and you can riff, but but it is. It’s like because cocktail ingredients often are complex.

And very multifaceted in and of themselves already. And those are the ingredients I love to work with, but they they are the ones where a little change can make a big difference. I tell people it’s like trying to combine a curry, a stew, and a salad instead of trying to combine a meat, a vegetable, and a spice.

Stephanie Hansen (04:27.904)

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And also, I mean, you are, I think, for sure, from a Minnesota standpoint, I think your gins are world class. And I’m a big fan of all of your profile of gins in the Minnesota realm. But also I think your gins stand up to a lot of gins made in America, but also in Europe.

And you’re welcome. I I really I’m a big fan. But when you mix different gins, there’s also different flavor profiles. So if you’re gonna make a gin and tonic with, you know, any number of gins, it’s gonna be so different.

Emily (04:57.948)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that is a hard thing to think about when you’re writing a cocktail book for sure. And where you just kind of have to accept that there will be some variability if somebody’s gonna use Tankere or Hendrix or Vikra or The Botanist or Grey Whale, it’s going to be a little bit different. And like our Vikra gins are creative djinns, but I made all of them with the idea and the goal of being a true djinn at their

So they can work in any recipe that calls for gin and it will go with the other flavors and the proportions there, which can’t be said for all creative gins for sure. but yeah, it is, it is a thing to take into consideration. And in this book, Cavan Cocktails, where it was very much pulling from you know, European cocktail traditions and opera ski and aperitivo hour and things like that.

There’s a lot of liqueurs and pairitifs and amari that have very distinct flavor profiles. And so some of these recipes call very specifically for this type of amara or that type of liqueur. And then other ones I say, like you can use any herbal liqueur amongst these, because they all, you know, they’re all unique, but they all play the same violin. Maybe they have the same moves on the dance floor, even though they have their individual style.

Stephanie Hansen (06:34.959)

That’s a cool way to say that. one of the things I liked about this book, well, all of your books I think really have a sense of place to them, which I really like in a cookbook. It is, I think, what makes your books really appeal to me. But also the way that you position this book is more about.

like what the experience is, where you are, what you might be doing, what you might be feeling. And that really does speak to, I think, how you drink and consume alcohol, like what that setting is.

Emily (07:15.951)

Yeah, right. I think that is you know, h having started a distillery but coming from health, I’m always thinking about like what are the potential unhealthy parts of the culture and then what are the really healthy, beautiful parts of drinking culture that have existed, you know, since humans lived together, and how can we really elevate and highlight those? And so much of that is togetherness and

activities with other people and celebratory rituals and that kind of ritualized thoughtful side of it. And so yeah, this book is very much based around that. Like you’re yeah, you just were skiing all day and you’re coming in to toast to a day on the slopes or you have been out paddling all day and you’re coming back to sit on your dock together. What is the right cocktail for that moment?

Stephanie Hansen (08:07.245)

I think too when you drink with people that are very much interested in cocktail culture, and I I want to make the distinction between drinking culture and cocktail culture because I think l cocktail friends of mine, and I would put you in that circle, all are thinking about cocktails in the way that a chef is thinking about his meal at his restaurant. You’re thinking about how they’re gonna approach it.

when it’s going to be served, what the equipment that are you know, it’s so different than drinking culture, which is just like here, let me hand you something to drink.

Emily (08:46.781)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, right. It’s kind of yeah, it’s exactly like that, a chef thinking about it. And I think about it sometimes too, about like that difference between going and eating an entire box of like Chips Ahoy cookies for your sugar versus like eating one beautifully, you know, naturally leavened salted butter croissant that somebody spent, you know, 48 hours working on. it it’s yeah.

It’s just different.

Stephanie Hansen (09:18.071)

As someone that owns a distillery and has seen the we’ll call it the sort of rise and then leveling off of alcohol consumption and producing products in the state of Minnesota in that vein. Are you feeling like we’ve kind of gotten to a level that maybe is where we’re gonna be for a while? Because everybody was really excited about all the Minnesota make made distillery products.

There was a lot. Now we’re sort of losing some breweries. We’re losing some distillers. And it seems to be settling in. Is that good for you for business?

Emily (09:56.338)

That’s a great question. I was literally thinking about this in the car today when I was going and picking my kids up from school. Because yeah, I think as in a lot of industries, when like the laws changed and it allowed the industry to open up, there was a big rush into it. you know, anything that becomes trendy is of course gonna see a spike and then a decrease. And I do think generally that’s healthy and has allowed those of us who

went into it from a perspective of like, I’m really here for the creativity, for the quality of the product. I’m not doing it just because it’s local, but also because we want to make something really world class and that really adds to the conversation and people’s experience. you know, it those are the players that continue and stand out versus people who are chasing a trend or but it is also really hard because it does favor people like business

That were started up really well capitalized from outside investors versus the small players, you know, those of us who are operating really independently, it becomes much harder. and there’s also so many things going on, like on a national scale with regards to imports and exports, with regards to consolidation in distribution changes in different states that privilege certain states over others.

That are maybe even bigger players in what’s happening in Minnesota than just how crowded it got. I think that part’s really hard because it negatively impacts Minnesota businesses in ways that people can’t necessarily see if they’re not in the industry. and so that’s challenging. But I do think, you know, there’s comp competition isn’t a bad thing. It’s important. But then also there are like unfair unfair parts of it too. And so it’s important for people to keep.

Supporting the small businesses, but it’s also true, like nobody should be required to buy something just because it’s local. You wanna enjoy it too.

Stephanie Hansen (11:58.85)

Yeah. Is being from Duluth a help or a hindrance for you in how the products come to market?

Emily (12:07.741)

Well, that’s a deep question, Stephanie. because I would say both. Both because you know, Duluth has a reputation as a great place. It is a unique, beautiful, amazing place and has amazing resources. It’s why we wanted to be here. and it it has these like good associations for people that in some ways make our marketing easier and make the selling easier, makes it easier to stand out.

At the same time, we are kind of out state. We’re outside of the more metropolitan hubs where a lot of the resources are or where the distribution is, where you know, it’s hard to get down to like sell into the restaurants and things like that as often. So that is hard. And yeah, so it kind of it kind of goes both ways.

Stephanie Hansen (13:00.385)

You when when we were together last, I think something you said that has just stuck with me that I never really thought about. But you know, Duluth is on, you know, gorgeous Lake Superior, right? And we don’t think about water probably as often as we should, and maybe we’re thinking about water more now. But you made a comment about the terroir of Lake Superior water and how that impacts your product. And

Emily (13:28.283)

Yeah, I think it’s critical.

Stephanie Hansen (13:30.507)

It was such a cool way to think about it. Can you just talk to me a little bit and help the reader understand and the listener understand why that’s important to you and why that sense of place?

Emily (13:43.29)

Mm-hmm. this is another thing that’s very multifaceted, right? Because this the sense of place to me is important on a spiritual level because Lake Superior is such a massive presence that orients all of life around it when you’re in Duluth. So there’s that. It is like such a massive source of inspiration, but it also is a critical ingredient. We use it in our fermentation process, and that is why so many breweries in

Cropped up in Duluth, the water is really great for fermenting. But then when we are distilling, ironically, we’re removing all of that water and creating a distilled spear. When you distill, even for something that winds up being 35-45 proof, you’re distilling it up to, you know, 96% to 98% alcohol, potentially. So then when you are bringing it back to the proof that you want it for the bottle, you are adding water.

into it and that water can add a huge amount of character to your spirits. And so you know, some places use reverse osmosis to get the most like completely empty for lack of a better word, water they can. Other places like us just use filtration to try to keep more of the character of the water. And that adds the water that you use adds a lot of the flavor and texture to the final product.

And kind of gives it, yeah, some core essence. And there was a really interesting study done. Did I tell you about this? With whiskey from some Scotch whiskey and some Japanese whiskey. They decided to try to study the impacts of the proofing water by having the Scotch distillery send their distillate to Japan, to the Japanese distillery, and the Japanese distillery sent their whiskey distillate to Scotland, and they used each other’s water to proof it down.

And suddenly this Japanese whiskey really tasted like it came from Scotland and the Scottish whiskey really tasted like it came from Japan because the water gave it that tear water.

Stephanie Hansen (15:46.896)

I think about that when I buy your product because I think about you and like your family, and obviously I want to support Minnesota makers, but I also think about like this beautiful resource and this unique place that only can be gotten by the water from Lake Superior. And I never thought about that before. I thought about that with wine. And you know, you talk a lot about terroir with wine, you talk about it with whiskey.

It really I hadn’t really thought about it much as it pertained to gin in particular, ‘cause I like gin. So I think about that a lot now and I’m really glad that you shared that. So I wanted people to hear that ‘cause I think it really just is a connection to the place of where the products are made.

Emily (16:19.484)

Mm-hmm.

Emily (16:33.007)

Yeah, right. And that is such a goal of ours is connecting people, whether or not they can come visit to this place that is so unique and so beautiful and special and wild and quirky.

Stephanie Hansen (16:43.403)

You have a business with your husband, obviously. You have the distillery, you have a spirits business. W how do you have time for cookbooks and why are you still doing cookbooks? Is it lucrative for you or is it more of a creative outlet?

Emily (16:47.932)

that’s a great question too. It’s more of a creative outlet. before starting the distillery, and when I was in graduate school doing my PhD in food policy and nutrition, I was also doing recipe development and food writing. And I did that for a couple of different places, including Fi Food 52. And so, and I was a food blogger for a number of years. And so that was kind of my creative outlet during graduate school. And so then

with having the distillery and having recipe development in a different way become such a big part of what I did. I was missing that sort of story. Well, I mean, you do storytelling in the marketing for a business for sure, but I was missing that kind of slowed down, bigger picture, not just brand focused outlet. And yeah, so I was super excited to have the opportunity to work on cookbooks. It’s funny, it’s actually like some of my very

earliest memories as a very, very tiny child were of looking through picture cookbooks, like looking at the photos, trying to read the recipes and just imagining what it would be like to be able to cook them and dream thinking the greatest thing in the world would someday to be able be to write a cookbook. Like that would be the coolest thing. And then telling myself like no, you will never be able to do that. Right. And so

Yeah, the I surely had massive imposter syndrome the first ti first cookbook I wrote, but it also was just like such a joy to get to do something that I’d literally dreamed of since I was a toddler.

Stephanie Hansen (18:33.401)

That’s so cool. That’s so cool. I think the first cookbook I looked at was the Boys and Girls Cookbook. And there was like a clown cupcake where you like cut out part of the middle of the cupcake to make like the hat for the clown. And you had ice cream. And I just remember thinking like, wow, people can make these things and kids and kids can make them.

Emily (19:00.987)

Yeah, exactly. I think the one I was looking at, yeah, had like a cake that used MMs to decorate it to look like like a garden and like a little bird singing in the garden. And I was like, that’s genius.

Stephanie Hansen (19:09.825)

Yeah. It’s so funny. Are there cookbooks that inspire you today? Like do you have ones that you always go back to or ones that you just look at because they’re beautiful?

Emily (19:22.021)

Ooh, I love Alice and Roman’s cookbooks. I think they’re beautiful. I love how approachable they are in her whole style of cooking, and her writing style. So definitely those. I love my gosh, I’m blinking. I mean I use the America’s Test Kitchen cookbook all the time just because I enjoy like their methodical approach to recipe development. I like

Stephanie Hansen (19:43.086)

Yep.

Emily (19:51.42)

The I I’m like blanking on people’s names, but Otto the Autolengi cookbooks, really beautiful, really great recipes. And then Nigel Slater. I just have always loved his food writing. So I turn to that when I’m looking for like writing inspiration.

Stephanie Hansen (20:07.307)

Yeah, ratios is a good one for that if you’re interested in sort of the technology science recipe piece. Alison Roman was just interviewed by Ina Garten on a podcast, and she said something I thought that was really interesting that I think feels kind of like something you will be able to relate to, in that

Emily (20:14.353)

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (20:29.975)

We’re in this sort of period of fast cooking, weeknight cooking, five ingredients or less, like high protein, low energy dinners, you know, just it’s we’re in this feeling of sort of frenzy about cooking sometimes, I think, and a lot. And what she talked about is her methodology that feels really interesting to I think think about is to slow down.

Like let’s not why are we rushing? Why do we have to rush this thing that feels yeah, and and if we value like the ingredients, the food, the time with our family, the community we’re creating, whatever that is, maybe we don’t need to rush, maybe we need to just slow down or also like understand when it’s not a weeknight meal, like you know, we don’t have a kid going to soccer today, so maybe we’re gonna slow down and take the time and spend the time.

Emily (21:01.987)

Mm-hmm. Where are where are yes. Like where do we think we’re headed?

Stephanie Hansen (21:30.037)

As someone who’s a younger cook and kind of in the zeitgeist of mm the next group of cooks I think coming along, I was impressed to hear that from her because I think sometimes we’re just feeling so frenzied about cooking all the time.

Emily (21:47.484)

Right. There’s such a push, yeah, to do it fast to get it done. It’s very like utilitarian. how can and also like it has gotten shoved into the whole like optimization culture too, where everything has to be optimized, everything’s and like if there was one thing I came out of of doing a PhD in nutrition with, it was like you can’t boil things down to their nutrients, right? Like you don’t need to optimize your protein and optimize your fat because it is an evolving science. There’s

People like science is so important, but we also, you know, are limited by what we decide to look at in that moment. And that’s just part of the process. And there’s so much wisdom in the cultures that have been built for thousands of years around food production and food sharing and drink production and drink sharing that are gonna withstand any of the latest fads and that it doesn’t it’s more optimal to like

have some really enjoyable food and drink that you take your time with and that you share than to like optimize every part of your diet. And I also think yeah, there this there’s like there is kind of people certainly are busy, but I think there’s a certain amount of like manufactured rushed feeling as well. Like you have to hurry this up, you have to hurry that up, you want to get it done fast. Yes, sometimes because you have to get your kids to soccer, but a lot of the time it’s like

They’re telling you this so that you can get back to scrolling and you can get back to shopping or whatever. And like, how much more of your life are you gonna experience if you do slow down, look at your ingredients, take the time to chop, take the time to smell, take the time to shake, take the time to sit down. you’re gonna feel like you’re living your life, you’re pulled into the moment instead of pulled out of the moment. And I think that is a beautiful thing to gift ourselves with.

Stephanie Hansen (23:41.508)

I felt that when I read this book, when I looked at the pages and I felt the scenery and I experienced what you were trying to identify with the drinks in particular, the cranberry thyme ginger cosmopolitan. though I love a cosmopolitan, I always say I’m bringing the 90s back, but that you know, thyme and ginger is like, yeah, that’s a natural component with cranberry.

Emily (23:57.158)

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (24:10.887)

And that one stuck out to me. And also, you had a blueberry sherry cobbler. Sherries are very underrated and people don’t know what to do with sherries. So that drink appealed to me. How did you think of that one?

Emily (24:26.243)

I I agree with you about Sherry. I love Sherry. It k it’s certainly an acquired taste, I think. Like the first time you taste Sherry, you might be like, What the heck went wrong with this? but as you get into it, you discover so much like nuance and so much interest to it. And so I really enjoy Sherry, knew that I wanted to integrate it into at least a few of our cocktails. And being a little bit of like a cocktail history nerd too, I just like the history of the cocktail the sherry cobbler and you know the

whole history of ice and this invention of the straw, which was to drink your sherry cobblers. and so I thought, yeah, it was, I mean, I’m not gonna be able to remember it accurately. So I’m not gonna try too hard, but like I want to say it was like the early 1800s, ice became easier to import. And so it was just like the sign of being with the times to use ice and everything. So people started to use make icier drinks and the one of the most popular ones was the sherry cobbler, which is

Stephanie Hansen (25:01.933)

I don’t know anything about that.

Stephanie Hansen (25:07.694)

Sure.

Emily (25:25.245)

sweeten sherry and citrus over a lot of crushed ice, but then that is hard to drink. And so kind of the straw was developed from actual straw to be able to stick it through all that crushed ice to be able to suck up your sherry cobbler.

Stephanie Hansen (25:37.68)

Crazy. Yeah. That’s crazy. I love that story. That’s awesome. as you think about what your next steps are, do you anticipate that you’ll stay in this space? And I mean, you just wrote a book, so it takes usually they say one or two years before you get around to even thinking about the next one. Is that sort of your cycle?

Emily (25:43.365)

Yeah.

Emily (26:00.284)

Yeah, right. Yes, for sure. I definitely, it’s like having kids too, right? You like need enough time to like recover from the process and forget exactly what happened before you’re like, I could do that again, right? and let ideas marinate. And it’s one of the things I like about writing books again in this fast-based culture is they are still slow. It’s a slow process to write it, it’s a slow, thoughtful process to photograph it, it’s a slow process to edit, publish, print. I love that. I love how much intentionality is put behind it.

Stephanie Hansen (26:05.09)

Yes.

Emily (26:29.829)

And so yeah, it’ll be at least another couple of years, I think, before anything else comes out. But I have joked that, you know, because I have camp cocktails and now I’ve, you know, upgraded to cabin cocktails, maybe next I have to do chateau cocktails.

Stephanie Hansen (26:44.269)

I like that. Or like there I the idea of I always think that you know, I don’t know why, but I tend to drink more and I’m traveling. So like the idea of a travel travel cocktails or you could certainly you could branch out into R V life. I can see that being a real a real fit, yeah.

There you go. Well van little van life. Yeah. yeah, I also have been really enjoying doing more like dinner parties and gatherings around themes. And so maybe exploring that idea, just continuing to play on the gathering side of it. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (27:16.121)

There’s so much of that right now on Instagram in particular. And I’m like lurking on all these people that are having these very cool parties. Tomatoes are really like a big theme right now because we’re just coming out of tomato season. And you have a a t is it tomato and gin cocktail in the book.

There’s yes, there is a tomato, basil gin and tonic.

Stephanie Hansen (27:40.245)

Yes. So tell me about that one and how that got inspired because tomato was not on my ginantonic portfolio.

Emily (27:48.242)

Yeah, it was a friend of mine who made a tomato gin and tonic for me. And she was like, You have to try this, it’s crazy. And I was like, I love this. I’m super into this because yeah, I’ve never been a big bloody mirrory person. It’s just like a little too tomato-y for me, but I do love tomatoes, so it was really fun to start seeing tomatoes integrated into drinks in other ways and yeah, kind of took the the tomato idea and decided to

Turn it into a shrub and give it that sort of play up its tangy and sweet notes and then add it into the gin tonic. It’s very refreshing and summery and fun.

Stephanie Hansen (28:24.855)

Yeah, it looks really wonderful. Yeah, I can’t wait to make it. Well, it’s been great chatting with you. I hope I’ll see you again in Duluth here before too long and we’ll be coming up actually I I have a book signing coming up there in at the end of November. So we’ll make sure we get by the distillery and and say hi.

Emily (28:33.085)

Same.

Emily (28:38.202)

Awesome.

Stephanie Hansen (28:44.919)

All right, thanks for everything and we can I’ll put a link to all your books. Is there places that you like people or prefer people to follow you on social or?

Emily (28:55.457)

I mean on Instagram is a great place to follow us and it’s just at Beaker Distillery.

Stephanie Hansen (28:59.343)

Okay. All right. I will include that. It is Emily Abikra. Thank you for being my guest today. I’ll put links to all the books and we’ll talk soon. Okay. All right. Bye.

Emily (29:06.439)

Thanks for having me.

Sounds good. Have a great day. Bye.

Stephanie Hansen’s Jenn Lueke

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Lisa Steele, author of 'In Season'and known for her expertise in eggs from her Blog, and first cookbook of the same name Fresh Eggs Daily, and farm-to-table cooking, shares her journey from chicken farming to cookbook author. She discusses her creative process, the challenges of social media, and her upcoming baking book, offering insights for aspiring food creators.

Stephanie Hansen (00:00.718)

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where I talk to cool people in the food space. I’ve been expanding my repertoire, but I got a cookbook that came across my desk earlier in the season. It is called In Season. It’s by Lisa Steele. She’s the founder of Fresh Eggs Daily. And this is Lisa’s second book. The first book that she has is really all about eggs. Because if you know Lisa, she is a chicken farmer.

But she is so much more than that. Lisa, this new book "In Season”, 125 sweet and savory recipes, is gorgeous. Congratulations.

Lisa Steele l (00:37.886)

thank you. Yeah, it it is a really pretty book. I mean, I know the most important part is that the recipes are delicious, but you know, we do all eat with our eyes. And I feel like if someone’s in a bookstore flipping through the book, you know, they’re just gonna be like, I wanna make that, I wanna make that, that looks so good. I mean, it’s just so because it’s vegetables and fruits and berries, you know. So it was easy to make it like bright and vibrant. You know, my first book, All Eggs, it can get a little dull, you know, eggs are kind of tough to photograph sometimes.

Hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (01:08.138)

Your first book though, okay, so every season I spend a bit good portion of the summer at my cabin. And your book came with me to the cabin this summer because there’s so much to do with eggs and I do a lot of entertaining there. So there’s a lot of brunch ideas. So I use that book a lot.

Lisa Steele l (02:19.71)

Good. And I mean the second book does have a whole egg chapter. So anyone who does love eggs, I managed to slide in, you know, like a bunch of deviled egg recipes and, you know, some baked dishes that I feel like are, you know, kind of like casseroles that are really good for entertaining, or like you said, if you’re, you know, somewhere that you have a limited, you know, cooking space or whatever. So there are still egg recipes for those people that love eggs.

Stephanie Hansen (01:55.47)

Can we talk about like obviously after you got done with the first book, y you had more to say and more to say that wasn’t just eggs? I loved that you expanded your repertoire because obviously you’re a cook. you know how to make and put together a book and put dishes together. What was it that kept propelling you forward, or were you just like, I’m gonna stay on this cookbook jag?

Lisa Steele l (02:19.71)

yeah. So after the first book came out, I mean it was it was brand new. Like you said, I was in the chicken world. I was writing books about raising chickens. I was giving talks about raising chickens and you know, COVID came along and my publisher wanted me to write another chicken book. And I had written like almost a book a year for like six years. And I said to him, I don’t really have anything more to say about chickens. Like I have a blog with a ton of information. I just couldn’t get excited about it, you know. And so I said, I really want to write a cookbook. Like it’s COVID. I feel like this might be the end of the world. You know, I wanna like

Check things off my bucket list. And he did he wasn’t interested. He he said, No, you’ve got your lane. This is what you do. This is what you do. Well, you need to do it. But he very graciously let me out of my contract. you know, you know, as a cookbook author, you they have like first write a refusal, right? And you’ve got like whatever. He let me out of my contract, wished me well. and I hired an agent and pitched, you know, the egg cookbook to him. He loved it.

Jill kind of was so gracious to share with me her agent. and yeah, he loved the idea of an egg cookbook. And he said, you know, it’s the next natural step for you. You know, you’ve got all these people that raise chickens and have a ton of eggs. Let’s do this cookbook. Plus, people who don’t have chickens, you know, so it’s just widening your your universe kind of. so he loved it, got right on board, and it was so much fun. you know.

People say cookbooks are hard to write and it wasn’t easy and it took a long time, you know, two years, right? Start to finish pretty much. but I found it so much easier than writing like a nonfiction chicken book because each recipe is like its own little capsule. You know, you’ve got your your title, you’ve got your head notes, you’ve got your recipe and your photo, and then you move on. And like writing a nonfiction book.

There’s got to be chapters and there’s got to be paragraphs and you can’t do all run-on sentences and it has to flow. And I I just found the whole cookbook process in my mind was so much easier to like wrap my head around, you know. yeah, and I loved it so much. And the book really, for someone who wasn’t in the food world at all and didn’t know anybody and nobody knew me, it really did well. And so, you know, I did get a second book deal and now I’m working on my third cookbook actually. So I was thrilled because

Just to kind of leave that chicken world behind, although I still have my foot in it. I’ve had a couple offers to sell my blog. And I’m like, I don’t know. You know, that’s kind of like my bread and butter still. So I I’m still holding on to that part of it. but the food world is so fun. I’ve had so much fun.

Stephanie Hansen (04:55.276)

So you the first book is egg specific. This second book in season is 125 recipes with eggs, but there are other recipes too, a lot of them. How long did this book take?

Lisa Steele l (05:09.813)

Yeah, vegetables and berries and stuff. so it’s been four years since my first book. But for the first two years, like every week, I was bugging my agent. I was like, I want to write another cookbook. Let’s write another cookbook. And he said, You can’t. You gotta like get some traction, you gotta get some sales, you know. We can pitch one now, but you’re not gonna get as good deal as if you have like a track record. We gotta give it some time, right? So that was like the first two years. And then I just kept bugging and I was like, you know what? I’m just gonna start writing another egg cookbook.

so I I started doing that. I just started creating recipes and testing them and putting them in my little files and stuff. And then finally, you know, they said, okay, we can pitch another book. And I said, okay, great. I’m like, you know, halfway done. And they said, no, no, not another egg cookbook. Like sequels don’t usually do well, whether it’s movies, books, whatever it is. you can’t write another egg cookbook. So I was like, what the heck am I gonna do? Right. So they they suggested farm to table. And I said, I hate that.

that was cool like maybe 20 years ago, but it’s like so overdone. Like I just hate that phrase, like the farm to table. Cause I was like, technically everything is farm to table unless you’re growing vegetables in a lab, right? Or meat in a lab, whatever. So I was like, I hate that, but that’s what they pitched and that what was was bought. So me being me, I was like, well I’m just gonna do what I want to do anyway. So I just kept continuing on. I got the whole egg chapter in there. and then okay.

You hire professionals because they know what they’re doing. And in the end, I am so glad that they pushed me in that direction because it opened up, like obviously I don’t just cook eggs at home, right? You know, so I was like, well, what else do I make? I make sandwiches, I make soups, I make, you know, so I kind of like went through my files and thought about what I ate as a kid. And like it was so freeing not to like have every recipe have to have eggs in it, you know. So I

had a lot more fun with it than I thought it would. Like once I started really embracing it and being like, okay, I have to use different ingredients, you know, it was a lot of fun.

Stephanie Hansen (07:13.866)

As you go into the third book now, are you kind of moving away from egg specifics and what is your third book’s theme? Have you thought of it?

So the the my next book is coming out next September. So once I finished my second book, I said, I don’t want to wait another four years. Like we got to keep the ball rolling, we got to keep the momentum going. And they said, Yeah, now you have a track record, you have whatever. So they almost pitched the next book as soon as I finished my second book. So it’s coming out next September, like in a year. so it is done, it is almost on its way to the printer, like working on the cover, like we’re in that part of it. I mean, I spent the last year and a half, pretty much that was my focus. It is a baking book. so going in kind of a completely different direction, there are a lot of eggs in baking, you know, so kind of I guess, you know, you could say for people who have eggs, it’s a great but I was really excited because at heart I’m a baker. I was an accountant.

And I think that baking, because it’s so precise and there’s measurements and ratios and numbers and you follow instructions, like for my accounting mind, baking makes so much more sense. And I I just really love to bake. Like I find it really relaxing because I feel like cooking is like being in a jazz band. You know, they’re just like, okay, now you and you’re like, like throw in some of this, some of that. Like I don’t know what I’m doing, you know, whatever.

Stephanie Hansen (08:35.723)

Yes, yes.

Lisa Steele l (08:55.487)

But baking is like, okay, like this is a classical piece. Like this is your part and this is what you do every time. And I just find that so relaxing and calming. So I had a blast and it it’s a lot of family recipes. It’s a lot of history. It’s it’s the most personal book to me because it really is going back to like, you know, recipes that I grew up with and, you know, all that kind of stuff. So yep.

Stephanie Hansen (09:21.462)

I can’t wait for that. you are so interesting to me. Like hearing you describe the baking versus the improvisation of just general cooking. I this is why I really don’t like baking because it’s too regimented for me. I’m kind of a shortcutter. I’m like, well, I don’t have dill today, but I have basil, so let’s just throw that in. And for me, that basil.

Baking like gives me just hives because I’m like, it’s so precise. There’s only this box, and I can’t fit in that box.

Lisa Steele l (09:51.58)

Well, it’s just it’s funny too because I am. I mean, asked my husband. He was in the Navy. He is like the disciplined, regimented one. I am like a total free spirit when it comes to life. I fly by the seat of my pants. I don’t really make plans. Like a brand will come to me and say, Hey, can you fit us into your like posting calendar? I’m like, What calendar? I don’t have a calendar. Or like I just whatever, you know, I wing it. I basically wing life. But I think that’s why baking is so calming for me because it is a place where I don’t

like have to be like all chaotic and crazy. And, you know, I just follow the instructions, which is is good for me. But yeah, it doesn’t appeal to everyone. yeah, and people so many people don’t understand you can’t just like make shortcuts. Like, yes, in a soup, if you don’t have potatoes, you can use sweet potatoes or a salad. If you don’t have pecans, use, you know, walnuts or whatever. but in baking, like like if you don’t have like, you know, brown sugar, you can’t just go adding honey or like

Can’t just make up your own rules, you know.

Stephanie Hansen (10:54.232)

Can we talk a little bit about reinvention? Because I feel like it’s maybe I don’t want to be impolite, but you are a woman of a certain age, as am I. And I feel really interested in your transition here because you have really created this whole other life that going from accounting you probably didn’t see coming.

Lisa Steele l (11:20.649)

No, not at all. But I have to say accounting is probably the most boring profession in the world. and I I don’t know what I was thinking, because I am very much a free spirit, you know. So to go to school for accounting, but again, I think it was like a safe space. You know, I was like, I understand what accounting is and what it does. And so, you know, it it kind of like grounded me a little bit. but yeah, great. I mean, accounting, and I worked on Wall Street in the 80s, which was probably the most like exciting type of accounting you could do.

But even still, I said, you know, I don’t want to work in a cubicle like my whole life. That just wasn’t me. But now because I do have a brand and a business, I am so thrilled I have an accounting background. Because you like I I I mean, I keep balance sheets and, you know, cost of good soul. And like I I know, you know, profit margins and, you know, finances. And I mean, I don’t do my own taxes anymore. I used to, but you know, I have an accountant now. Cause again, professionals, you know, I don’t have time to keep up with like

all the latest tax codes and stuff. But accounting is a great like I would suggest for everybody, like anyone who wants to be an influencer or creator or do anything entrepreneurial, at least take a basic accounting class. Like if not in college at like a local community college or in high school, like learn the basis of accounting because it’s just it’s so important for so many aspects of life.

Stephanie Hansen (12:45.826)

That’s a great piece of advice. when we think about being creators, you know, you have to be good at lots of things. So you are good at writing, you are good at recipe development, are you as good at social media? Are you good at video? Are you thinking about expanding your YouTube channel? Substack. Can you walk me through like some of your silos and how you’re getting joy from them and what your strategy?

Is or if it’s just all free flowing.

Lisa Steele l (13:17.301)

Yeah, there is not a ton of strategy. I do have to say I don’t consider myself an influencer. Like I get email constantly from brands, you know, we want to send you our product and we want you to hold it up and talk for 15 seconds and we’ll give you 10% for this code. No, absolutely not. I don’t do that. I’m not an influencer. No desire to work for affiliate income or product. You know, when I started out in 2012, it was so much easier because brands would just put a banner at the bottom of my blog and pay me.

Like it was basically passive income. And that was the majority of my income was just put a banner at the bottom of the blog. And now social media has made it so labor intensive. Like I think if I worried about the algorithms of all the platforms and what I was supposed to be doing and how I was supposed to be doing it and when, I think the burnout has got to be insane. Especially for the people who aren’t aren’t earning that much money. You know, I mean, if you’re earning a ton of money, then fine, hire somebody to do it. But like

I it it just I can’t I can’t spend my whole day trying to figure out what Instagram wants or what Facebook wants. Like I was lucky enough to get in early that I have a huge following, but the engagement is terrible. Like the the platforms are saturated and that’s kind of why writing books appealed to me because I want to reach people outside of social media. Like I don’t it’s just too much for me. It’s just too loud and too noisy, and I do it because I have to. If it imploded tomorrow.

I would be thrilled, you know. I d I do YouTube, I don’t do as much as I should. I have videos on there from like ages ago and that. And I’ve kind of thought about that. but really it doesn’t, it doesn’t really excite me. I mean, I’m bored with my social media. I probably shouldn’t say that, but I’m bored with it. So how can everyone else not be? Like, how can you post? I’ve posted like I’ve posted like 30,000 posts on Facebook. Like

Stephanie Hansen (15:00.326)

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No, I feel you deeply.

Lisa Steele l (15:06.533)

No one’s life is that interesting that they need to post 30,000 posts. And I’ve gone from posting every hour to posting once a day to posting three times a week. Like nothing matters, nothing unless you pay, nobody sees your stuff, whatever. So I love doing podcasts. I love doing radio shows. I love being interviewed for you know digital publications. I love, you know, just doing things like out in the real world more. and I think it’s fooled folly. Anyone who puts all their eggs

In either TikTok or I mean TikTok came so close to going away altogether. If you don’t have some kind of hub like a website or a blog or something that is your own platform, that’s not a business. You’re not a brand. Like it could just evaporate in a second, you know. So you can’t you can’t put so much and and trying to go viral is also not a business plan. Like if if your whole business plan is trying to post things to go viral, I was on

One of my posts, which the only one who’s that’s ever gone viral, will to in 17 years. One was how to tell how old eggs are by reading the code on the carton. You know, there’s like a little code that tells you when the eggs are put in the carton. It was on Dr. Oz. It was shared by like Rachel Ray and Cosmopolitan and The Delish. It got like 17 million views on Facebook. You know what that earned me?

Nothing. You know, so going viral is not a viable business plan either. Like you have to just consistently like do your thing.

Stephanie Hansen (16:35.946)

It is it is funny. I think I went viral-ish, 250,000 views for a video that I took of dragonflies in my garden. I was standing in the garden, all of a sudden I realized I was in like a hatch of of dragonflies, and it was very beautiful. And I filmed and it was like a 20-second video, and I have no makeup on and I’m just filming these beautiful dragonflies. And I posted that and

That was like the most traction I’d ever gotten on a video. So I was like, huh, I wonder if this will move the needle at all. At the end of that month, when I got my check from Facebook for being an influencer on Facebook, it was $33. And it was just, it made me laugh. It was like, gosh, for all the chasing that you do of content and of likes and

This one thing that I just automatically did ‘cause it was beautiful and interesting, it and it barely moved the needle of anything. What is all this brain space that we’re giving to this beast?

Lisa Steele l (17:40.349)

Yeah. People

Yeah. People are not making sure there are people that are making millions of dollars and all that, but most people are not making as much as people probably think they are.

Stephanie Hansen (17:56.503)

Yeah, I think that’s so true. Tell me a little bit about some of your favorite recipes in the book. Yeah. Completely exhausting.

Lisa Steele l (17:58.63)

And it’s exhausting, totally exhausting. Yeah. yeah. So probably and back just before we move on, back to your point. I mean, I can spend first of all, cooking videos are intensely labor intensive. Like, so you can spend all day doing a 30 second recipe video. I can go outside with my camera and point it at the chickens for 30 seconds and it gets much better engagement. So the amount of time and effort you put in

Is not it doesn’t correlate to how well it’s gonna do. So it’s it’s just all confusing to me. So

Stephanie Hansen (18:34.881)

Yep.

Lisa Steele l (18:37.339)

Okay, so yes, favorite recipe. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (18:37.908)

So back to the book, if you could tell me.

Lisa Steele l (18:43.429)

So two months ago, I would have said the salad chapter was my favorite. I know salads are not not really what we want to be talking about right now. but I I never really liked salads until I started creating them myself and putting all kinds of interesting things in them, you know, like berries and nuts and cheese and all that. But since salads aren’t really you know, what’s trending right now, I would say that the peach Caprese grilled cheese sandwich.

is one of my favorite. I love stone fruits. and I also did like a grilled apricot like Caprese salad with either mozzarella, a barata, some balsamics, some honey, maybe some herb oil. I really like that, like combining like the sweet and the savory.

Stephanie Hansen (19:30.05)

Yum.

Lisa Steele l (19:33.408)

Yeah, thing just kind of unexpected, like you wouldn’t expect. You know, like take an ingredient and swap it out and make something new.

Stephanie Hansen (19:43.791)

One thing that really intrigued me, well, there were a couple of recipes that I liked. The glazed cardamom peach quick bread. I love cardamom being of the north. That’s a seasoning that is pretty Scandinavian and feels near and dear to me. But having peaches and a quick bread, I really liked that. tell me, there’s pictures of the ingredients here, but not a picture of the finished bread. Is that like more like a zucchini type density, a zucchini bread type density?

It is. It’s it’s like a quick bread. And you that’s it’s funny you should mention that. you can have a photo of every recipe in your cookbook, and invariably you will get a review on Amazon of someone saying, I wish there was a photo of every recipe. Or for my first cookbook, I I think there’s a recipe a photo for almost every recipe. And someone reviewed and said, There’s not a re a photo for every recipe. So I doubt she’s ever even made these. And I was like, What? I mean, first of all, photography is incredibly expensive.

And secondly, some things just don’t photograph well. Or this the spacing, like there’s books have to be in like pages have to be in sets of four just because of the way, you know, books are made. And when it comes to editing, like stuff gets left on the cutting room floor, you know. So the peach bread, actually funny story, because I’ve made that a bunch of times. for the photo shoot, they made it and it just didn’t work. For whatever reason, it was just a disaster. And the time is scheduled so fat, so like.

Lisa Steele l (21:09.166)

they can’t go back and start over because they got to move on to the next recipe, right? So we were like, shoot, like we have no photo. And of course the photos I take are too low res. Like they wouldn’t be high enough resolution for a cookbook because I was like, I have it. Like I’ve made it a million times. Here’s my photo, you know? So they fortunately they had taken kind of a beauty shot of the ingredients. So I was like, well let’s just use that because everyone kind of knows what a quick bread looks like, you know. but this next cookbook too, there was a cheesecake and the

photographer was bringing it over to the table to, you know, set it where she was going to photograph it. And they had all the garnishes ready and the silus came in with the garnishes and the cheesecake slid off of the cake plate onto the floor. And I mean, completely destroyed. And again, they I mean it had to chill. So like they don’t have time to go back and start it over. And so fortunately we did the photo shoot in two sections. So next month we’re doing

the final photo shoot. So they’re gonna have to make it again. But like you you just have to keep moving on. Like stuff happens and you can’t, you know, so sometimes things end up with no rest no photo. But yeah, it’s basically a quick bread. And you could use cherries, you could use plums, you could use apples, you could use like whatever you wanted.

Stephanie Hansen (22:23.852)

Yeah, I liked that recipe. Another one that appealed to me was the roasted grapes with walnuts feta rosemary. Roasting grapes is sort of underrated. Why don’t we roast grapes more?

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Lisa Steele l (22:35.319)

Same reason we don’t grill things. I mean, the grilled apricots or grilled peaches, like when you grill or roast fruits, like it brings out the sugars, they caramelize. those, they’re just delicious. And like I love on a charcuterie board to put those grapes because it is something that’s like unexpected. You know, people are like, what’s that? You know, something a little different.

Stephanie Hansen (22:58.752)

Yeah, and super pretty. Well, Lisa, I am a big fan of your books. I appreciate spending time with you today. I do not have chickens, but I’m chicken aspirational and you usually kind of start that inspiration in me. I don’t think I’ll ever do it, but I do scan your your videos and I go to your page. And I think if I ever was gonna do chickens, I’d start by deep diving into Lisa Steele, because you know so much about chickens.

Lisa Steele l (23:24.385)

you’re funny. Yeah, yeah, I do. We’ve known this a long time, but yeah, I’m thrilled to move into the yeah, yeah. But the food world has been so much fun. And I it’s just, you know, the thing people like make your recipes, you know, it’s it and it’s just creative. You know, I I definitely am like a type A, you know, short attention span kind of person. So there’s so many aspects to writing the cookbooks that

Stephanie Hansen (23:30.038)

Yeah, you’re you’re the ultimate expert on chickens.

Lisa Steele l (23:50.62)

It keeps me busy and occupied like for two years, which is great, you know. So been fun.

Stephanie Hansen (23:57.996)

I love it. Yeah, well, thanks for joining me today. I will put a link to the books in the show notes. I’ll put a link to your blog so that people can find you. And when the new book comes out, make sure to put me on your list. I do want to compliment you two on the packaging of your book. You do a beautiful job.

Lisa Steele l (24:17.313)

the again, another aspect, the like the influencer boxes. It’s so much fun to come up with little things and brands have been so generous, you know, donating things. And that’s the kind of brand work I love to do, like things that are a little bit different. but yeah, brands have been very generous. And this this third cookbook, I definitely want to come back and talk to you about because I think it’s gonna be right up your alley. And there’s a lot of cardamom in it, is all I’m gonna say. So I think you’re gonna love it.

Stephanie Hansen (24:45.322)

Okay, I love it. Thank you so much, Lisa. I appreciate you being a guest today.

Lisa Steele l (24:50.353)

Thanks, Stephanie.

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The Minnesota State Fair is more than a 12-day event - it is a full-on lifestyle choice for 12 days, and Alex Lodner knows exactly how to make the most of it.

Sunday’s with Stephanie this week will feature my full State Fair Guide with picks, tops and tricks for making the most of the next 12 days at the Minnesota State Fair.

Upgrade my subscription now so I don’t miss the State Fair Guide.

My goal with this newsletter is to help you discover new recipes and share things I am obsessed with. I also like to create short essays about what I am thinking about from time to time. It’s like the miscellaneous drawer in my kitchen: a little bit of everything, some dribs and drabs—recipes, essays, helpful ideas, occasional interviews, restaurant suggestions, and more.

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As a free subscriber, you’ll receive a newsletter in your inbox every week on Wednesday with a free recipe. You will be the first to know about any new classes or live cooking events I’m teaching, podcast episodes I’m releasing, etc.

What else would I get if I paid to subscribe?

Great question! First and foremost, you’ll get my gratitude (I appreciate your support!!). I am a freelance creator, which means I work for everyone but no one full-time, so I pay all my own healthcare, buy my own groceries for recipes and shows, and fund my own podcast.

You will also get the Sunday Subscriber email in your inbox each week. You will have access to the entire archive of posts, plus exclusive content like extra recipes only for Subscribers (there are 65 currently like this Corn Shrmp and Basil Risotto perfect for Summer), and access to Stephanie’s Dish chat. .This chat lets you join the conversation, comment on posts, and engage with other people and me in the Sunday Subscriber community. I also link all my Taste Buds Episodes, Podcasts and appearance clips on the Jason Show so if you are into what I do - its all here posted each week. Subscribing is $8/month or $60/year.

Whether you are a first-time visitor trying not to waste a single bite or a seasoned fairgoer looking to level up your annual plan, this episode will help you experience the fair like an insider. Perfect for anyone counting down to the fair, food lovers chasing the best bites, and Minnesota locals who want to make the most of every precious day on the grounds.

Alex reveals the must-try new foods on her list, the classics she returns to every year, and the hidden gems that still make the fair feel magical even after decades of visits. You’ll discover:

* Why Tuesday and Wednesday are the smartest fair days for shorter lines

* How to approach the new foods list before the most popular items get swarmed

* The off-the-beaten-path favorites Alex never skips

* Where to find the cleanest bathrooms, quietest rest spots, and easiest shortcuts

* Which fair traditions are still worth your time, from the parade to the llama spectacle to the church dining halls

Original Episode Transcript

Stephanie Hansen (00:00.724)

Hello everybody and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to cool people in the food space. And today I’m talking to my friend Alex Lodner. And Alex is someone that I feel like I owe a public thank you to. She would fill in on my radio show a lot in the times when I started going to the cabin quite a bit more and started the garden.

And I have become friends with Alex over the years. And Alex is also someone that whenever we think of the Minnesota State Fair, she is someone that comes to mind. She’s a fair aficionado. She really has done a lot to help with the fair foundation. And I just am loving to geek out with a fellow friend that loves the Minnesota State Fair. Thanks to coming on the program, Alex.

Alex Lodner (00:37.55)

Okay, I’ll take that.

Anytime, of course. My favorite subject. You knew that. You knew that when you got me.

Stephanie Hansen (00:53.756)

I did. I did. So let’s talk a little bit about your love of the fair and how it all started.

Alex Lodner (01:01.5)

yeah, so you know, the fair is kind of a crazy thing, right? It’s this insane time for twelve days. I always say that I suspend my entire personality during those twelve days because I don’t like crowds, I don’t like fried foods, barn animals, you know, all those things are not something that I normally r seek out. And it just those twelve days are just magic. You just lean in and if you do it right, I think it’s a it’s a

an amazing experience. I hear a lot from people who are who go once a year with their, you know, family of five and they they can’t understand why I go an average of eight times. And I always tell them it’s a completely different experience. When you go multiple times, you’re not trying to fit everything into one day. You find your secret rest spots. You find your favorite foods that are maybe a little bit off the beaten path. We always had our sec secret little spaces where we put our blanket down and let the toddler run around and

So it’s a very different experience when you go multiple times.

Stephanie Hansen (02:02.629)

Yeah, I think so too. There was a couple of years where Steph, my radio partner on Weekly Dish and I recorded a podcast and we would meet out there every day and record the podcast. We got a lot of cool behind-the-scenes stories, and just the pace feels different. The fair is like it’s like a mini city that happens for 12 days in our state. The rest of the state, believe it or not, sort of comes to a silent pause.

It has its own police force, it has mm people that sleep out there for weeks. It really is just like this weird microcosm of something that only happens once a year in our state, and it’s actually pretty joyful.

Alex Lodner (02:48.458)

Exactly. And I used to live a mile away. And so when when my daughter was little, there would be a little parade of strollers of us going back and forth from the fair. We’d go back to the house for a nap. We go back to the fair. And so it really again, when you’re right there, it’s a very different experience. And the only thing I would say is do not try to go to the Target Roseville during the twelve days of the fair. It empties out, there’s no produce.

But other than that, it’s just it was always so fun to live in that neighborhood. You’re you’re just in the thick of it. It’s it’s really it’s quite a high.

Stephanie Hansen (03:24.741)

Yeah, yeah. When we think about the fare, one thing that people talk about a lot and I feel like I just want to address up front is expense, particularly in a year where people aren’t feeling flush with cash. it is an expense. It is an expense to go with your family of four or five. Tickets are, I think, $20 unless you’ve bought them in advance.

Alex Lodner (03:47.392)

At the door, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (03:49.002)

And you know, food is gonna be expensive because we’ve seen food costs go up 33% in the last two years. There is a large minimum wage in our state. So yeah, it isn’t necessarily a value proposition. There are good values to be had and there are deals to be had. The blue ribbon book is probably the best thing to do.

Alex Lodner (04:12.226)

Fantastic deal. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (04:14.811)

you get like a lot of discounts. There’s two for ones and just going on the right days. Like if you’re going on senior day or kids’ day. So without not I don’t want to lay belabor the costs of the fair because I don’t it ruins the experience, but it is a thing.

Alex Lodner (04:29.88)

But it’s a thing. It’s a definite it’s a definite factor. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And again, I say we used to go every day. I understand that that’s not an easy task for most. It’s because we live so close. There’s the cost of parking, there’s a cost of just driving there from Elk River or wherever you’re coming from. I have talked to the marketing department off and on in the years about doing a a punch card or a a passport of some sort, but it’s just never really gone through.

Stephanie Hansen (04:58.801)

Yeah, it’s a great idea. Cause I think it feels like since COVID, the fair has become even more wild because people couldn’t go for the COVID times. And so now it’s like people realize what a treasure it is and they don’t want to miss it. When you plan your state fair, and are you planning yours already for this year?

Alex Lodner (05:24.59)

Did you really just ask me that? I’m offended. I’m offended. Yes, I’m planning the state fair this year. Well, so here’s a side note. I’ve actually, other than covering the fair for I don’t know, almost 20 years, I’ve also worked off and on for some vendors there. And this year I’m working for a vendor there. It’ll she’ll go unnamed, but I’m working for a vendor there. A friend of mine owns a a new vendor. So I’m going to be there.

Stephanie Hansen (05:25.937)

I’m just asking.

Yeah.

Alex Lodner (05:55.519)

Seven shifts, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I will, I will. Yes.

Stephanie Hansen (05:57.519)

gosh, I can’t wait. Okay, you’ll have to tell me off air because I’ll make sure to pop by and see you. I over the years, so once we stopped doing the podcast

I started doing the garden. And unfortunately for me, garden season in Ely is the end of August and the first week of September. So I basically front-load all my fair experiences. I’ll be out there Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. And then I’ll leave Monday evening and head up to Ely. And then that’s sort of the end of my fair time and I start harvesting everything.

But I do love kind of having it in that condensed window too, because I get all the early excitement.

Alex Lodner (06:37.614)

You do. And yeah, you go during the busy days, don’t you? Tuesday and Wednesday are the quietest days. And one of my tips is always to go on a Tuesday and Wednesday, regardless of what deals you get. You’re just gonna have the shorter lines. It’s just not as stressful. But yeah, I I would I do all the things. I go throughout the whole thing. I don’t go on weekends. That’s kind of I believe I have weekend shifts, but I’ll go work and get out.

We do not go as patrons during the weekend. That’s we leave that for people who can’t go during the week.

Stephanie Hansen (07:13.404)

Yes, I think in the restaurant business we would call that the amateurs. I know, because it doesn’t sound very nice and sound sort of elite. Yep. Okay, so day one, you’re heading to the state fair, day one, and you’re there for not reporting, not work, you’re just there for fun. What are like some of your top things to do?

Alex Lodner (07:18.528)

I was gonna say we call it amateur hour, but I was not going to say that but you did. We always call it nope, that’s amateur hour. Yeah, yeah.

That you like to do on day one.

Yeah. Such a good question. Last year was my first year as a regular folk going to the state fair on day one. And actually Smart and I talked about that. Like this is just so weird. She she did do her her report, but it’s just very strange to not have the new list and to not make sure you get everything in. I think on day one, I still do try and

go for the new things that I have circled. So you know, the official foods and the non-official foods, if people know that there are some new foods that didn’t make the official cut, but they’re just as exciting, sometimes even better. And I do make sure that I hit those. And the reason that I do that is because once all of our colleagues have reviewed everything, it blows up. And so an example of that is the Amish donuts, Peach’s Amish donuts.

We when was that? Twenty twenty-three, I believe was their first year. And all of us rated at number one. So we go as a group. So I go with I went for MSP with Steph, March and you know, Minmo goes and strip goes. And we all including Jason Mathis and we all rated at our number one or in their top three. Well then now you know the lines are an hour long. And so I’m not saying we’re so powerful, but if you can if you can

decide what you want to try out of the official and new foods and hit those on day one before the reporters get there and before we release our reviews. That’s your only chance of really getting away from those long lines. We went up to the pizza, to the pickle pizza. We were there when the first year we were there, we walked right up to the to the counter and day two history. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (09:31.165)

Yeah. Now it’s hard. I went, well, I have 14 new fair foods lined up for Jason to try on day one. And then day two, I have 14 beverage things, non-alcoholic and alcoholic things. And we try to really load them up for the first two days so that, you know, he is part of that queue of of influencers, as it were, of people that

And I have to say I’ve done a really good job of anticipating, not only because I have to think about like what he’s gonna like, but which ones are gonna hit.

Alex Lodner (10:03.427)

Which ones will hit?

And you do you only use the official foods? Official new foods? Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (10:09.896)

I do, I do. And I know that there are a lot of great foods that come out that are on the new but not official food list. Cause each vendor has new items that they’re introducing every year and not all of them make them to the new list. but I try to, I mean, we only have X amount of time, so I try to just load them up with as much as I can. Are there

Alex Lodner (10:30.105)

Fourteen is a lot. Uhhuh.

Stephanie Hansen (10:31.708)

Yeah, I think so. I mean of the I think there were thirty-six new, so we’re getting at least a third of them in one day. are there things on the new list that will you’re excited to try?

Alex Lodner (10:35.905)

Yes. I actually have it written down because there’s so many of them. So I like the I tend to no I notice when I look at all the new foods that I liked best over the years that I go for the more refreshing things. So I won’t necessarily I rarely go for the heartier, heavier things, although we’ll talk about that in a second. But the mango sticky rice refresher at Chan’s Eatery. Do you know where Chanse Eatery is? It’s it’s in the north end, and not to be confused, there’s

Alex Lodner (11:13.561)

Chan’s chicken and a stick in the South. Different, different vendor. So they have that. I think it’s like gonna be a drink, but it almost looks like tapioca pudding situation, but with sticky rice. Really excited about that. the the it’s on days two. Yes, so you’re looking at as a drink. Yeah. The strawberry sundae tart with Ube at Sarah’s tipsies. Sarah’s tipsies pies is one of my I always have foods that I repeat.

Alex Lodner (11:43.192)

I try not to repeat foods ‘cause there’s so many, but I have a handful that I repeat and that’s always her pies. Usually I do her lemon lemon blueberry. But I’m gonna try the strawberry tart with ube. Ube is, you know, that’s the hot thing. It’s been for a while.

Stephanie Hansen (11:58.739)

It’s very ubiquitous in TikTok land. It’s the purple sweet potato ingredient.

Alex Lodner (12:04.191)

Ube or Pondan, which is the green. and then the the banana butterscotch barn razor at Farmers Union. Farmers Union can do no wrong in my eyes. Every they just hit out of the park every time. So really excited about trying that. And it’s strange because these are all sweet things, which is not normally my thing, but Greater Tater, which is is it a new vendor this year? Or it might have been last year.

They’re sort of blowing up on on the socials as well. And they’re over by the animal barns and I’m curious to try them too. We tr no, we tried it two years ago. It was there’s the really big tater tots and they were d yeah, and they were delicious. Not really my thing normally, but

Stephanie Hansen (12:45.054)

The square ones. And that booth, too, they have a child that has special needs. And yeah. Yeah, he’s great. And they do a good job of employing kids with special needs. So outside of the fact that the taters are good, really good, you know, you have this whole heartwarming story piece that I always like.

Yeah, he’s very popular on socials right now. He’s adorable. I pretty much just want to meet him, let’s be real. But I’ll buy a potato too.

And then another mention I want to say that I’m probably most excited about is the caramel apple iced tea from Loon Lake. Loon Lake has such good drinks and again, huge line. Always a huge line. You guys, it goes so fast. Give it a chance. Get in the back of that line. It will surprise you how fast it goes. They’re very efficient. They have two sides. So the caramel apple one sounds intriguing. And as I’m saying all these, none of these are things that I would be attracted to during the year, but.

Stephanie Hansen (13:52.764)

Yeah, I have them on my list too. the caramel infused cold foam kinda sounded good.

Alex Lodner (14:19.043)

Yeah. I mean any any place would have me at foam. Be a chance eatery. I love my foam. A chance eatery. Yes, yes, cheers. a chance eatery. They also have an iced coffee that I’m going to try that either has the Ube or the Pantan foam. So just just make sure that I’m staying hip with the 19-year-old crowd. I’m gonna try those as well. Right?

Stephanie Hansen (13:52.764)

You do you and you do love coffee.

Pandon foam. Huh. I had Pandon for the first time with my friends Heather Jans, the curry diva, who made me a Sri Lankan curry with it in there. And yeah.

Alex Lodner (14:19.043)

Yeah, I know they’re

Really? I only think of it as a sweet ingredient. Ooh.

Stephanie Hansen (14:27.055)

No, she uses it in almost everything savory.

Alex Lodner (14:30.667)

Speaking of people who can do no wrong, my goodness. Yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah, so that’s that’s sort of on the on the official foods and then the not official, I’m really so a must-stop for me is the dairy goodness building, which is not to be confused with the dairy barn. And

Stephanie Hansen (14:33.49)

Yeah, she’s an amazing person and

Stephanie Hansen (14:50.334)

Help me understand where dear goodness is.

Alex Lodner (14:53.145)

Dairy goodness is in the dairy building. So the dairy building is right across from the haunted house. The dairy barn is where the cows live and it’s way down over by the an barn animals. And so

Stephanie Hansen (14:58.684)

Got it. Okay.

Stephanie Hansen (15:04.392)

And dairy goodness is where the butterheads are carved and you get the milkshakes.

Alex Lodner (15:07.481)

Correct. And you have that long winding line and you get milkshakes and my favorite is actually always get the Sundays. I always get the strawberry rhubarb sundae. This year their Sunday is called Moose Soda Apple Pie Sunday. If it does not have cinnamon in it, I will be trying it. So Nope. It’s the only it’s the only food item I don’t I’m not allergic. I just strongly dislike it.

Stephanie Hansen (15:22.195)

Yum.

Stephanie Hansen (15:26.076)

Yeah, are you not a cinnamon person? Yeah, my producer is allergic to it.

Yeah. that must make a a pumpkin spice latte not your favorite thing.

Alex Lodner (15:42.788)

Well, fall is hard on me. S listen, I no sweets for me in the fall because they like to put that cinnamon garnish on everything and sometimes I’ll just order innocently order cappuccino and there’ll be cinnamon on it. And s no, dude. I know it’s October, but no.

Stephanie Hansen (15:57.511)

Outside Yeah, outside of the new foods, are there some classics that you go back for year after year?

Alex Lodner (16:01.711)

Yeah, always. I always, always have the corn. The corn roast. I’ve researched, you know, Brad’s stuff to death. I know where those farms are. That is just the best there is. And if you’re skipping on that, it’s it’s just it’s a must-have. Must have. They cook it for an hour. It caramelizes, so it’s so sweet. the key lime pie on a stick is a little known stand. Do you know where that is? It’s underneath the beginning of the Skyride by the food building. It’s sort of tucked in under there. And it’s a key lime pie on a stick dipped in dark chocolate. Divine. I think it’s yeah. And I don’t know that if they raise their prices this year, but year after year it’s been five dollars. I don’t know what they’re doing this year. But that’s delicious. it’s kind of one of those foods my daughter grew up on. So when she was a toddler, there’d be chocolate everywhere. And and now we still get that.

Stephanie Hansen (16:43.336)

Okay, I’m gonna try that.

Alex Lodner (17:01.133)

And then for me the grain belt blue beer over at now it’s the Pratna Prize is sponsoring that pavilion. And so that’s at the West End. And they started out with the blue beer, which is a blueberry beer, and then they top it with a foam again with the foam theme, and they top it with blue foam. Well, now they’ve they have Sangria beer that they can tap it with. They can tap it with all sorts of foam so you can mix the flavors. I go classic, blue beer, blue foam. And

Stephanie Hansen (17:30.132)

They have that raspberry beer flavored ice cream.

Alex Lodner (17:34.327)

The ice cream. They so this year it’s it’s double flavored and I cannot remember what the flavor of it. Peach, peach and raspberry. That was a surprising hit. We all dreaded getting that, I’ll be honest. For the first year, it w we just were not sure what it was delicious. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (17:38.76)

Peach.

Stephanie Hansen (17:50.442)

I thought so too. And I think peach and you can either have peach, raspberry, or a swirl. I think that’s gonna be a home run.

Alex Lodner (17:57.092)

I think so too. It was it didn’t taste like beer. And again, speaking of suspending my personality for twelve days, I don’t think you’ve ever seen me have a beer other when I’m forced to when I’m reviewing. And I just love that one. It’s again very refreshing.

Stephanie Hansen (18:09.608)

I think I did do the we did the specialty beverages one year together and all the beers and you just were not having any of it. And I was like, Alex, this one is good.

Alex Lodner (18:18.735)

Well I was like I tastes like the last thirty, but sure. I’ve ran out of words. I no longer know how to describe this the taste of this beer. Combining all the beverages and all the official foods was just that was brutal.

Stephanie Hansen (18:34.44)

Yeah, it was a big day for everybody. Okay, let’s talk about some non-fair things. Like one of the things that I really encourage people to do is to go to the llama parade.

It is just such a weird, kitschy, funny, fun, joyful experience to see people leading around their llamas in costume. They’re in costume. It’s just this cute, fun, weird Americana thing that I love so much. Do you have other like activities that you do at the fair that kind of check this box?

Alex Lodner (18:50.937)

We always watch the parade. So at two o’clock there’s always a parade through the fairgrounds. We sit in front of the Bailey House, which it’s is that big, beautiful yellow country house at the south end. We always sit right in front of it in the same spot every year. I bring a blanket. We have a blanket that I only save for the fair. It’s very lightweight. We just always, always watch that the bands are especially a treat. And if you sit in that area or in front of the admin building, you’re actually sitting by the sp by the announcer.

So the marching bands really tear it up in front of the announcer because that’s where the judges are. So that’s a little tip of that’s where you if you really want to see them display their full talents, sit in front of the admin building in the South End and they’ll really pull it out for ya. what else?

I’m trying to think to just some other in I mean

Stephanie Hansen (20:05.064)

Well, yeah, and like seed art or crop art has really blown up in the last couple of years. I really enjoy it and I have seen some of the entries on threads that like preview, they’re just they blow your mind, they’re so amazing. so that’s something, but also like don’t overlook like just going and going through like the vegetable buildings and seeing like the big pumpkins and the beautiful tomatoes. They’re just like these weird little moments of joy of just seeing some of the cool stuff that people make.

Alex Lodner (20:31.241)

Mm-hmm. The giant pumpkins. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (20:44.594)

When I go into the four H building where they do their performances, the kids have plays. That’s really fun.

Alex Lodner (20:49.687)

Right. Yes. And it’s a really nice place to rest. It they have nice bathrooms there. They have nice stadium seating and yeah, you’re supporting these kids who’ve planned on this all year. It’s in the robotics competitions are in the education building. That’s what we always go through the education building. I would say we go through every building, but probably my favorite is International Bazaar. And admittedly

Stephanie Hansen (20:44.594)

Yeah. What do you like there?

Alex Lodner (21:15.831)

I just weave. I do all the weaves. I get I’m not wearing it right now, but I get a bracelet from a specific place that’s Kitty Corner from Holy Land. I get one every year from there. And I just I’ve seen it all a thousand times and somehow I just I just still love it. my my daughter used to get the little stuffed animals that that have the little beads in them. So she’s got a collection of it’s a snake and a dragon and yeah, we just

It’s just you know, it becomes really nostalgic after you go for a while. this is maybe food related, but I’d really wanna encourage people to visit one of the dining halls or the Midway Men’s Club. It is food, but you know, we used to have ninety some church halls at the state fair from the in started in the eighteen hundreds, of course, that’s all there was, but now there’s only two left. There’s Salem and Hamlin and Hamlin. And Hamlin has been there

Stephanie Hansen (22:08.702)

Salem and Hamlin. Mm-hmm.

Alex Lodner (22:14.091)

is since eighteen fifty two or eight fifteen eight or something like that. And so, you know, go sit in there for a minute. It’s so lovely to see all the volunteers that work there. Get an un at coffee at Salem, get whatever at Hamlet. It’s all good. And just take that moment and sit down at Hamlet. They have the little the red and white picnic tablecloths and you share a table with people and they will often you turn to them and they will tell you how they’ve you know it’s a

Stephanie Hansen (22:23.092)

Get an egg coffee.

Alex Lodner (22:42.915)

Great grandfather, grandfather, daughter kids, and they will tell you, I’ve been coming here since I was eight. And so it’s just a really take that moment in that you’re at the fair, you’re experiencing something, whether it’s a cup of coffee or whether it’s a a llama, you’re experiencing it with people who have memories about it. So chatting with with strangers at those community tables is just a favorite of mine. And Midway Men’s Club is they’ve been volunteering.

for years those are all volunteers. I don’t know how much their burgers are, but they were three twenty five in previous years. Yeah. I mean, I I think maybe. Yeah. And we call them pocket burgers because they wrap them up so nicely that when when we get burgers, we would get one and then or two and get one put in our pocket. And so we the

Stephanie Hansen (23:16.522)

They’re always the cheapest. It doesn’t they maybe will have to raise their prices, but I I think they were maybe five bucks, but still the cheapest at the fair.

Alex Lodner (23:38.274)

Apparently it’s the coldest beer at the fair. Again, not a beer drink over here, but that’s what they claim. And everything is the least expensive there. And again, you’re doing some good. They give all their money to the r to activities in Ramsey County, a lot of kids centered activities. They’re all volunteers. So just take a minute and not go for the fancy, the colorful, you know, the hot new thing. But remember those classics because we’re gonna lose them. So and I just I just really think they deserve a moment.

Stephanie Hansen (23:42.268)

And the least expensive. Yeah, that’s where Stephanie and I always go first thing after the radio show on Saturday morning. We start at the Midway Men’s Club. Yep, we have a beer, we have a burger, we thank them for their service and for being there. And the

Alex Lodner (24:10.691)

The men’s club? Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. They’re the nicest. They’re just the absolute nicest people. They have those fun little bar stools you can sit on. It’s yeah. I really just I just really think it’s important. If we we all love the state fair and we all talk about it, but then we also complain about it and we have to remember, you know, to give our put our money where to some of those classics as well.

Stephanie Hansen (24:37.692)

Yeah, I also want to call out Peg’s Diner or the Peg. it is a full service restaurant experience and same family has been running it. They have a great egg sandwich. So if you want to start your breakfast.

Alex Lodner (24:41.207)

Yes. I it’s on my list. It’s on my list to mention. Yep.

Mm-hmm. The only one.

Alex Lodner (24:52.685)

That I was gonna I have I have that on my list. And this year they’re gonna have the dill pickle chicken tender sandwich on an English muffin. Hello. Right? Yep. I wanna say it’s I I no, it’s not official. It’s new but not official. It’s the Mr. Peg dill pickle chicken tender sandwich, an English muffin with toppings. And they’re also very reasonably priced. The peg is very reasonably priced. They have the outdoor seating.

Stephanie Hansen (25:01.738)

Okay, you had me there. I did not know about this.

Alex Lodner (25:21.247)

And it’s just it’s again, it’s one of those times where when I go there, just like when I go to the dining halls, I wanna sit for a minute. I’m not in and out. I wanna take it all in. It’s a great place to sit and people watch for a minute.

Yeah, taking your time.

Stephanie Hansen (25:34.143)

Where do you like to shop? You mentioned the bazaar. Do you because I really like shopping in the West End. Yeah, there’s a lot of Minnesota makers there that I’m excited about. I

Alex Lodner (25:37.185)

I don’t shop at the fair.

Alex Lodner (25:41.635)

Do you? You’re a bigger shopper than I am. I’m not a very good shopper. I’m a pretty impatient shopper. I look at it and I like you, I go to the I Like You store. And I usually Sarah’s stuff is amazing. I have several of her t shirts. I have her hat. I don’t know if we’re supposed to swear on this show, but it says that okay, it’s a sh s**t s**t show on the on the hat. And I like getting the attention from that. People cover their children’s eyes. But

Stephanie Hansen (25:56.819)

Yeah, that’s a great one. They have good t shirts.

Alex Lodner (26:15.725)

So I like that. I do get something from her most years, but I put my money on food. I’ll just be honest about that. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (26:22.514)

Yeah. Before we wrap it up, Alex, I wanna know where your secret bathroom is. Cause I feel like everybody has a secret bathroom. Maybe it’s one that’s not as well traveled as the others.

Alex Lodner (26:33.839)

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So there are good bathrooms in every quadrant. So I don’t know if people know this, but the fair is divided into quadrant. They call it quadrant on the inside. And you’ll notice that the benches, the benches that you can buy and name after someone, those are all different colors. Those are your quadrants. So yeah, so in front of, for example, in front of ballpark, it’s they’re all yellow.

Stephanie Hansen (20:44.594)

Okay, I did not know that. Good tip.

Alex Lodner (27:06.699)

And so if people the the bench that that we purchased is for our friend Hanzi, who you know, who passed away in twenty seventeen, and he his bench is in front of ballpark. So you sort of dedicate it to someone and put it in front of their favorite place. I digress. Those are quadrants and every quadrant has a good bathroom. You just have to sort of know where. The best ones, honestly, they’re not so hidden, but the very end of West End.

has the big so anytime you see a red brick building bathroom, they will also have water stations at the at either end of it. So bring your refillable water bottle. That’s where you can refill water as well as other places. As well as other places throughout the fair, but you just always look for the red brick building. Those are somehow always clean. Always. In the grandstand, there are tucked away bathrooms that almost I don’t think I’ve ever seen a line there.

Stephanie Hansen (27:45.844)

That’s a good tip.

Alex Lodner (28:03.863)

And they’re also spotless. There’s one on either end of the grandstand. They’re inside, so you sort of have to know where you’re going.

Stephanie Hansen (28:10.078)

And they’re kinda smaller, but they are nice.

Alex Lodner (28:13.463)

Yeah, they’re they’re not tiny. They’re there’s one that’s bigger than the other. But yeah, they’re they’re always spotless. The cleaning crew do there just does a great job. over over in the north end I would say is your most challenging because that’s where the food building is. I’m sorry, the south end. That’s where the food building is. And so that gets to be a little bit busier traction there. But yeah.

I’m loath to give up my secret spot, but I’m going to for you friends of the pod. And it is behind the giant slide. There is a bank of bathrooms back there that are clean, nice. They’re right behind our Fox 9 booth, and a lot of TV station people know to go to those bathrooms. So those are good ones if you’re looking.

Alex Lodner (28:45.153)

Okay.

Alex Lodner (29:02.703)

Well you you r you ruined you ruin it now. But that’s one of my shortcuts. So one of the advantages of having of going so many times is people like going with me, not because I’m such great company, but because I lead them through people, you know, that it’s gets so congested in front of the grandstand and there’s different places where it pinches and I know all the hidden shortcuts and I will not be giving them away. But that’s one of them. Right by those bathrooms. That’s one of those shortcuts. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (29:27.664)

It is. There’s another shortcut under the glider. Kind of by the i it’s a back shortcut where you

Alex Lodner (29:39.287)

Are you gonna tell my shortcut? Do not wait, stop talking. Which short don’t. Don’t. That’s my shortcut. No.

Stephanie Hansen (29:45.34)

I’m just gonna say it’s a shortcut that takes you from the Colossian up to the north.

Alex Lodner (29:52.716)

I don’t think Yes, Steph. We should have talked about this ahead of time. And they you know what? One year they put one year they put a fence up there and I saw the fence when I was heading towards it and I thought they were gonna cut us off, but they didn’t. There’s still an opening there.

Stephanie Hansen (29:55.111)

It I won’t I’m just I’m just gonna say a Alex

Stephanie Hansen (30:09.938)

Yeah, it’s just smaller. It it’s a handy one because the my talk one seven booth is up in that area and it’s a handy quick to get up there. All right, well Alex, please.

Alex Lodner (30:19.383)

Yeah. And the best entrance, can we say the best entrance? The best entrance with no lines is right behind the the my talk. Harder to get to because there’s no parking by it. But if you’re willing to walk a little bit, there’s never a line at that entrance. It’s a secret little vendor entrance.

Stephanie Hansen (30:34.282)

Okay, I didn’t know about that one.

Alex Lodner (30:36.784)

it’s right behind your booth. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Hansen (30:38.142)

Yeah, okay. So a secret entrance there. I always we always end up coming in where the where you come in where you rent the scooters and that area because we get dropped off. Yeah.

Alex Lodner (30:49.335)

At the north end. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it’s kind of a hike from there. But if you didn’t want to walk through the crowds, if it was really crowded, especially for you guys on a Saturday morning, you don’t go into the fair. You walk around on the outside of the fair and it will lay lead you to that secret. I’m j but we’re just gonna have people wondering aimlessly now because of what I’ve just said. Ignore what I just said. Don’t do that. People hundreds of people lost.

Stephanie Hansen (31:06.954)

Okay. Do you have

Stephanie Hansen (31:12.17)

No, do it, do it. Do you have yeah, I was gonna ask you one more question and I just totally can’t do you have a park and ride location that you think is good?

Alex Lodner (31:27.073)

No, I have a little bit of a beef with Park and Ride, honestly. I know it’s a great program. I know they’re doing their best, but I believe this year they took away the suburban ones. Don’t quote me on that, but I did not see them on the list. So the West suburbs used to only have one right by Ridgedale, and there were be lines across the highway. So it’s across the highway from Trader Joe’s. There would literally be lines across the highway. And

Stephanie Hansen (31:51.604)

Mm-hmm.

Alex Lodner (31:54.466)

So it they’re just we’re not enough in the suburbs. So you’re I think what they’re trying to get us to do, again, I’m not an official representative, but I think what they’re trying to get you to do is to drive closer to the fair and then use a park and ride closer to the fair. So those buses aren’t on the highway for a half an hour, which makes sense. So you want to drive into Roseville. my favorite is a new life presbyterian.

Stephanie Hansen (32:02.281)

Sure.

Stephanie Hansen (32:19.242)

Okay.

Alex Lodner (32:20.001)

There’s it g it’s getting more and more popular, but that’s always a really good one. The people it’s volunteers from that church. It’s where Millie went to nursery school. And so that’s our soft spot in our hearts.

Stephanie Hansen (32:29.183)

Okay. Okay, well I’ll send people there then. On behalf of you and Millie. Alex said to come here.

Alex Lodner (32:35.585)

No, don’t Great. Sorry, peeps for you know, I mean, you have a lot of listeners to this show. I’m not used to to having such an amplifier.

Stephanie Hansen (32:45.542)

You’re funny. okay, so just on a personal note, since I have you here before we wrap up, what’s next for you? I miss your writing.

Alex Lodner (32:55.865)

Thank you. I don’t Steph, I don’t know. I don’t know. I’ve I’ve been in conversations with a few people. If you had asked me this a year ago, I would have said, absolutely not. I am retired. I’m living my best life. I’m gonna sort of pull a Steph Hanson this winter and be gone most of the winter. But I I miss it. Never thought never thought I’d say that. What’s that?

Stephanie Hansen (33:14.548)

Mm-hmm.

Well, and you can do remote work. Yeah. I it’s when you can retire and choose your own life, it doesn’t mean that you might not choose your old life. It just means that maybe yeah, may well, because I think people think you have to like do something completely different, but you gravitated to what you wanted to do for a reason. And

Alex Lodner (33:26.467)

Mm-hmm.

Alex Lodner (33:31.79)

listen to you. Deep thoughts with Stephanie. It’s true.

Alex Lodner (33:43.887)

True.

Stephanie Hansen (33:45.066)

what you get the flexibility and the privilege to do is to make it in the image of what you would like. Cause you have the flexibility to say no.

Alex Lodner (33:55.074)

Right. And I’ll I’ll say this to be clear. When I say retired, I retired from a very part-time job. So I’ve always had that privilege. I’ve been extremely fortunate to have created exactly the career I wanted and to be able to do exactly what I wanted. So and to work with you know, I’m really, really mean this, the best people, right? You and I know that. We worked with the best people of the

Stephanie Hansen (34:06.025)

Yeah.

Alex Lodner (34:21.993)

Our our community is tiny in the Twin Cities. There’s maybe 10 of us that do this. And I love every single one of these people that I’ve worked with. And so going back to that doesn’t is not gonna be a you know, it’s it’s because it’s something that I enjoyed all along. I did not leave it because I wasn’t enjoying it anymore. I’d left it because of, as you know, some life changes. So things are settling down and

Stephanie Hansen (34:42.462)

Yeah.

Alex Lodner (34:49.899)

We’ll see. We’ll see. You and I will talk. W we’ll go have a non a non beer. I’ll have coffee, you’ll have a beer and we’ll figure it out.

Stephanie Hansen (34:52.326)

Yeah, please keep me in the loop. Yeah. Maybe we’ll see each other at the fair this year.

Alex Lodner (35:01.283)

Possibly I don’t work on Saturday, but I might just pop in just to wave at you. I love doing that. I love harassing people from the bleachers.

Stephanie Hansen (35:04.894)

Okay.

Yes, we will be live at Weekly Dish. I will be at Fox, yeah, 9 a.m. Saturday, 9 to 11 at Weekly Dish up in the North End, the first. And then I’ll be at Fox Thursday and Friday. We have two-hour shows. The first hour is our national show. Our second hour is our local show. It’ll be 10 to noon. And then at noon to th 12:30, I’ll be doing a book signing at Fox.

Alex Lodner (35:11.534)

Nine AM

Alex Lodner (35:16.291)

The first Saturday. There’s two Saturdays. So you’re there the first Saturday, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Alex Lodner (35:25.763)

What what time?

Stephanie Hansen (35:37.412)

on both days. And then Saturday I’ll do a book signing after Weekly Dish ends at 11 for a half hour. And then Monday I’ll be back and I’ll be on Fox in the 10 o’clock hour. And then in the 11 o’clock hour I’m co-hosting with Jason for that day. And then I’ll do a book signing after that. So yeah, lots of fun activities planned.

Alex Lodner (35:37.485)

Goodness.

fun.

Okay. All right. I’ll have you text me that because I am not gonna remember anything you just said. But I’ll have you text me my s thank you, and I will pop in. I I know the secret door.

Stephanie Hansen (36:03.795)

I will text you. Okay. Thanks, Alex. Yeah, and I forgot to tell you this when we started. Give yourself about 20 seconds before you log off just to make sure that the podcast catches up with our voices. Yeah, exactly. Okay. All right. See you.

Alex Lodner (36:18.97)

So I’m not just out. Peace out. All right. Talk to you, Love.

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Kelsey Lee, owner of Potluck Kitchenware Store in Ely, Minnesota, shares how her business navigated the challenges of wildfires, the unique culinary traditions of the Northwoods, and the importance of community and learning. Discover her insights on store curation, local culture, and must-have kitchen tools.

A few items mentioned in the Podcast available at POTLUCK

Pierogi Love and The Elements of Baking

Visit Ely, Minnesota for fun things to do year-round! Whether you are looking for a place to stay, a delicious meal, a hiking trail, or an immersion experience, we have businesses ready to meet your needs.

Original Transcript Follows:

Stephanie Hansen (00:01.176)

Hello everybody, welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space. And today I’m with Kelsey Lee. She is the owner of Potluck Kitchenware Store. And Potluck is in Ely, Minnesota, which is my second home. And I’ve been doing a little mini-series to help people get familiar with some of the businesses that have been impacted by the wildfires this summer. The wildfires, as we currently stand, are in a high form of containment.

Smoke in the town has been virtually non existent and people are coming back to Ely, but it has been a dramatic turn in what was looking to be a great summer. Welcome to the program, Kelsey.

Kelsey Lee (00:41.088)

Thank you so much for having me on.

Stephanie Hansen (00:44.2)

What does it feel like when, you know, you’re starting out on your summer and July fourth has just happened and something that you couldn’t have predicted as a business owner, like a wildfire comes into town?

Kelsey Lee (00:50.389)

it feels like such a jolt and especially with wildfire there’s a there’s this sense of kind of unknown danger known but unknown danger and i this was the first summer of wildfires that were quite close to town during my time of owning the business the last time we had any a wildfire anywhere near potluck or elite large

I was an employee of Potluck. I wasn’t the owner. So I was making, I was sort of executing on decisions as opposed to making them myself. So, you know, your first thought is about air quality and evacuation zones and all of that. And then sort of secondarily you wonder if it means the end of the season. And for me this year, that was an especially weighty question because what I’ve seen over the last couple of years is that our what what

is commonly known as our summer season, actually extends quite far into the fall. I’ve seen growing sales numbers in September and October over the last couple of years. And so you really don’t want to see your season kind of come to a close when really it’s like just getting started. But I’m really happy to say that what I’ve seen is very much to the contrary. This so two weekends ago on what would have been our blueberry art festival

I saw huge numbers of people in town. I had amazing sales. I’ve talked to other business owners who had a similar experience. So it feels like our kind of recurring visitors and also our seasonal residents have really rallied to support Ely. and I personally am just so grateful for all of the messaging around Ely is open for business, like conditions here are safe, we welcome you, we encourage you to do your Christmas shopping. all of that

for in my case and the case of many of the retailers I’ve spoken to has just been incredibly successful.

Stephanie Hansen (02:59.584)

It’s kind of funny because I am a person that does a reverse commute. I my husband lives in Ely in the summer and I usually head there on Saturday in the afternoon and come home on like a Monday or a Tuesday. And the air quality in the Twin Cities has actually been worse than in Ely. So it’s it’s been a kind of a strange summer.

How hard is it? So you have a great selection of cookbooks. You really do a great job of curating. You’ve got all the cast iron things that one would expect at a kitchen store in the Northwoods, but you’ve also got beautiful dishware, some small appliances, all the cute funny towels and napkins and cocktail and entertaining things that you might use at the cabin. How do you curate the store?

With such a big percentage of folks being summer residents, does it change?

Think it’s a really interesting challenge. I actually love doing the buying for the store. I do it all myself because my market really exists as like three segments. And over the years of working here and then being an owner-operator, I’ve really gotten to know those segments by their general characteristics, but also individuals, right? So I’m getting feedback and product requests and things all the time. and so I think of my customer market as being comprised of seasonal residents. So people who come up for the summer, like you you have a s you have a second home, you have a second kitchen, you’re hosting, you’re cooking, you are really looking for anything you would be looking for at your main home in your kitchen, right? So like I’m I’m stocking a lot of the supplies that series cooks and bakers need on a regular basis. And then my second market are what I would say what I would call are are kind of like pass-through visitors or

Are guests of the seasonal residents. So these people, they’re looking for souvenirs, they’re looking for hostess gifts. For those folks, the size and weight of items is very, very important. People are looking for something to tuck into their luggage, or they’re looking for like a last-minute gadget or something to use on a boundary waters trip. So that’s maybe the most varied kind of use case scenario in that second group.

and then my third segment are my year-round residents. and their needs vary quite a bit as well. they comprise just a huge percentage of my holiday market, which has been great that we’ve brought in more holiday specific things, both decor, but really mainly all of the specialty holiday baking over the last few years. and the local market has just grown and grown as I’ve learned what people are making. and what they need in the kitchen around that time of year.

Stephanie Hansen (05:55.673)

What do you find are people making? Is it different than what you expected? Like are you, you know, is it bunt pans and cast iron or is it sourdough accessories and

Kelsey Lee (06:09.55)

Yeah, huge. I sell huge numbers of Benettons and LOMS and proofing containers and all of that for sourdough. Sourdough is big year-round, I think is really exciting to say. but what I find most exciting is that especially around the holidays, the cultural culinary traditions of this area really come alive. So people are asking for things for lefsa or

Sandbuckles or I’m sure I didn’t say that quite right. or petitsa, of course. and so it’s fun to try to as I’m accommodating those requests, learn about which families have which culinary heritage, you know, and over time you sort of learn like, yes, this family, they make leftsa on Black Friday or the Saturday or whatever. So we really have a surprising

range of not only wants, but really needs, you know, because many people in this area are making all of their bread from scratch. They’re making all of their yogurt. They are participating in, you know, a CSA or they’re taking like a butchering class at the folk school. And so the needs really vary, which just makes it exciting from a buying standpoint.

Stephanie Hansen (07:24.78)

I’ve been going to Ely for 35 years. and I can say that the culinary world there has expanded and changed, with the folk school certainly offering more classes, but also I think during COVID, a whole new type of person moved into Ely, younger folks, more families.

I have seen a lot more people coming from either coasts and coming for the water, the nature, and just the lovely changing of the seasons in Ely. Has that changed things for you or made it more interesting?

Kelsey Lee (08:03.153)

Yes, much more interesting.

And over the last year I’ve really solidified a partnership with the folk school in terms of not only sponsoring all of their nourishment program areas, but just increased communication with them about upcoming cooking classes. and this last spring we collaborated on a pie dough making workshop at one of the like spring women’s retreats at YMCA Camp du Nord up here. so I I

I see the folk school as being really a critical kind of partner for people, for me to grow awareness of my business, but also as far as preserving and sharing the culinary traditions of this area.

Stephanie Hansen (08:52.471)

The director of the folk school, Lucy, is my daughter’s WIDJI sister. They went on a a long camping adventure together and have been friends ever since, you know, when you are in the Arctic for 30 some days with someone, you really form a bond. And it’s been fun to watch Lucy and that folk school grow. And also the Duluth folk school is also growing. So just getting that awareness of, you know, that there’s a lot of things to do in the North Woods, even if you’re not a paddler necessarily.

Kelsey Lee (09:23.896)

Yes. Yes, absolutely. And I see the folk school as being like, you know, if if you’re gonna connect with one touch point for activities and and even community events in the Northwoods, I think the folk school is it. Absolutely. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (09:38.325)

It’s interesting too. You know, I’m part of the pickleball club in Ely that’s fairly new. There’s also the folk school. There are a ton of events that are happening through Ely Connect, which is geared more towards new residents. I really am impressed and excited about the future of Ely just for myself as I spend more time there. And maybe, you know, at some point I’ll

I don’t know, am I ever gonna retire? Probably not, but the ideas in my mind that I could and that there is a place that has such a rich learning path is really kind of fun.

Kelsey Lee (10:11.699)

Yes. my friends and collaborators at Boundary Waters Connect do a bunch of things. They connect with perspective and new residents. They host the Tuesday group series in town and they

very accurately characterize Ely as a super curious community. This is a place where people are very skilled. They’re sometimes quiet about the skills that they hold. But if you show genuine interest, people are more than happy to share with you the skills that they have acquired on their own, skills they learned through their family. It’s a place that is very fertile ground for non-competitive and intergenerational learning, which is really beautiful.

Stephanie Hansen (11:03.747)

There’s also a lot of diverse political beliefs in Ely that seem to exist side by side in a way that I’ve never seen anywhere else. You have people that have very intense passions about the boundary waters and wanting to prevent mining from going into the boundary waters. And then you also have a very robust community of people that believe that the prosperity of the town historically and potentially in the future is based on mining. And these two things seem to be able to coexist in this really small town of mutual respect and understanding for the most part. it it makes I think Ely so unique in that, you know, you could go and learn how to build a birch bark canoe next to someone that might be completely different than you ideologically.

But yet also your neighbor. And I love that that is how this community is fostering growth in learning and growth in how the town is growing. Are you have you experienced that as new people have come in?

Kelsey Lee (12:10.818)

Yes, absolutely. and I think that comes from it feels a little a little like old-fashioned neighborliness, which can sometimes swing in sort of a gossipy direction when we think about, you know, that small town living. And there’s always gonna be an element of that there. But really it comes in my experience, the respect and tolerance comes from a deep understanding that we all need each other.

Because of where we live, because of the seasonality of our economy, because our winters and even our summers can be very harsh in certain ways. we have a reliance on our neighbors. And we need those relationships, you know, to look out for not only ourselves but also our community. yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (13:00.373)

Yeah. I you do get that sense of, you know, like I’ve been there w in the wintertime when, you know, you get a foot and a half of snow and you need your neighbor to plow you out and you’re standing at the end of the driveway as someone comes by with a plow and you’re like, Hey, can you help me out? Or your car gets stranded or

Kelsey Lee (13:17.949)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And people are more than willing to help. It is this is the first place I have lived with that kind of

that kind of neighborliness and it is I’ll be honest it can be a little foreign and a little like suspicious at first. so a story I like to tell is when my husband and I moved to Ely as we were and I don’t know how this came about at all. To this day I have no idea. But I have a lovely neighbor named Alana. She somehow found out not only

the day that we were arriving, like moving into our house, but also roughly the time that we were arriving. And as we pulled into our garage, she was standing in the yard with the neighbor from the other side and they were there ready to greet us. and if you’re moving from a big city or you’ve never experienced that before, it feels really odd and it feels like people are surveilling you or you’re you know whatever. but really it comes from that kind of old fashioned spirit of like we want to welcome you, we want to know who you are, because we want to immediately have this sort of neighborly relationship with you. so that that stories like that prevail all over town.

Stephanie Hansen (14:40.599)

Yeah, I would agree with that. All right. So since you’re the kitchen expert, I have to ask you some kitchenware things. could you tell me three things that you’re excited about in the store for cooks?

Kelsey Lee (14:55.008)

Yes, absolutely. I actually have I have a little cart here of products that I really want to show. so the first and this one is geared a little towards people who like are in a cabin, are on the go, you know, s have are space limited in their house. I’m really proud to say that as of a couple of months ago, Potla Kitchenware is a retailer for Vitamix, which is a fantastic brand, of course.

This is their five-speed immersion blender. What I love about this is this will blend ice for you. This will do anything that a normal blender will do. It’s not just for soups, it’s not just for mashed potatoes. this is a workhorse in the kitchen and it it weighs quite a bit for an immersion blender, but it takes up virtually no room compared to your standard kind of countertop blender. so the the larger point I want to make with this is that.

to get the power that you need, you don’t always need the appliance with the biggest footprint. Especially when you’re when you’re looking at a quality brand like Vitamix. So this one I love. Absolutely, yes. And that’s part of my something I’m managing always is either somebody is in one of the many houses in Ely with teeny tiny kitchens or they’re in a cabin or they’re in a travel trailer or whatever. So space is always at a premium for my customers here at the store.

Yeah, and in a small space.

Stephanie Hansen (16:21.251)

Right, so that’s a great recommendation. I didn’t even know they had an immersion blender.

Kelsey Lee (16:24.988)

It’s fantastic. Yes, yes, yes. another thing that I love is this, which is a really odd. This is an odd looking thing. this is one of many high-functioning, colorful, bizarre looking tools from a company called Dream Farm. They are based in Australia. They are next level when it comes to the functionality of kitchen tools.

They all have weird names and they all look really weird, but they’re fantastic. So this is their chopping spatula. The flexibility here is wonderful. This is what you want to use to get under eggs, under pancakes. it’s designed to sit on the counter like this, so it’s never gonna get your counter dirty. simplifies cleanup, and then this offset chopping edge you can use for like chopping ground beef in a skillet as you’re cooking.

it’s designed to give you that kind of cutting edge as well. so this is just one of many just fantastic designs from Dream Farm. so if you’re if you’re looking for something that’s not only like beautiful to look at in the kitchen, but also gonna give you added functionality, Dream Farm is a a brand that I love.

Stephanie Hansen (17:41.131)

It almost looks too like you could use it as like a what is that thing called when you’re making sourdough and you’re trying to get in and underneath the bread?

Kelsey Lee (17:49.165)

yeah yeah like a bench a bench scraper maybe. Yeah yeah it’s it’s flexible enough but also firm enough. I think you totally could. Yeah, yeah. Just kind of get get your dough started. Yeah, absolutely. yeah. And then you asked about things for cooks. So I am gonna show you this. So this is from Dubouillet, which is a French cookware manufacturer.

This is carbon steel, but this is kind of carbon steel meant for the every person. This is lower maintenance carbon steel. carbon steel is very much like cast iron in the sense that you typically have to establish and then maintain a layer of seasoning on carbon steel cookware. This one is from their blue carbon line. This one they heat treat at the factory. so you don’t have that seasoning maintenance for this. This you exactly.

Stephanie Hansen (18:45.539)

People will love that.

Kelsey Lee (18:47.007)

You use this right away. lower maintenance. And my favorite thing about this line, given where we’re located, is this you can use over a campfire. And it’s comparatively much lighter than carbon steel pans typically are. So this is great for a canoe trip. You just get one of the larger pans, it’s like you cook everything in it, safe to use over a campfire, cleans up super well. So I’ve been really thrilled to bring in

Stephanie Hansen (19:06.262)

Love it.

Kelsey Lee (19:16.094)

Not only the standard carbon steel, but also the blue from WA. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (19:20.941)

Okay, I like that and I’m always looking for the best nonstick pans because I do use my cast iron as a nonstick pan, but sometimes when you’re doing eggs you want something a little different.

Kelsey Lee (19:31.421)

Yes, yes, yes. And carbon steel, we’re predominantly a cast iron household, simply because cast iron lasts forever and we haven’t had a reason to upgrade to carbon steel, but carbon steel is just it’s it’s a smoothness that like you really don’t find with most modern cast iron. it’s just a fantastic cooking surface. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (19:52.601)

Okay, since I know you have a cart there, let’s do two more. Do you have two more things?

Kelsey Lee (19:56.559)

Yes, do you want things for cooks or do you want things for the home? Okay, perfect. so let’s see. one so one little thing that I want to share as like a shout out to bakers. so this is the Danish dough whisk from King Arthur Baking. It’s a triple loop, which some people look for. There’s a whole debate out there about how many loops you want in your dough whisk. this one I want to showcase because

I have been just thrilled that King Arthur is once again offering their their baking products, not their flowers, not their baking mixes, but their actual baking tools. They’ve recently made those available at wholesale. And that’s a big deal because they had a huge wholesale program prior to COVID, and then they suspended wholesale operations during COVID, and it’s been several years without.

that we haven’t been able to obtain these baking tools here at the store. So when I saw that they were available once again, I was just just so so happy. Yes. So King Arthur makes a fantastic cookie scoop and dough whisk and pastry brush and just a lot of those baking essentials. in addition to wonderful, wonderful cookbooks as well. They’re a go-to resource there too. yes. So that one I’m happy to showcase. And then

Stephanie Hansen (21:14.253)

Great.

Kelsey Lee (21:18.25)

I also want to show the very trendy, but appropriately so. These are geometry towels. these are made from entirely from recycled plastic water bottles. so a very sustainable choice. This is their, I’m gonna show you dimensionally. This is their kitchen towel. It’s it’s huge. It’s 18 by 30. It is

Stephanie Hansen (21:40.333)

Yeah, it’s huge.

Kelsey Lee (21:44.328)

incredibly absorbent of both liquid and dust. I use these here at the store to dust, just incredibly grippy no matter what you’re trying to clean up with them. and Geometry continues to partner with artists and designers. So they always have new capsule collections coming out and they are just so design forward. They’re light years ahead of all any other textile brand on the market. yes. So I love it. You’ve given me some things to come in and check out next week.

Kelsey Lee (22:15.817)

yes, yes, yes, yes. And they they have seasonal collections too, so they make great gifts. and they’ve recently unveiled table linens as well. table runners, placemats, all of those. Yes, yes.

Stephanie Hansen (22:27.188)

cute. Okay, before we leave, I’m gonna ask you for two cookbooks that you’re excited about because I know you’ve curated a lot of great cookbooks in the store.

Kelsey Lee (22:38.448)

Yeah. you’ll have to forgive me. I’m gonna turn around a little and just take a look. ooh, yes, so the first one is a very easy choice. This one is called The Elements of Baking by Katerina Sirmelsch. I’m sure I booked that. Apologies. Apologies, apologies. So this gives you for bakers, you know, bakers are like

That’s a very formula and sort of accuracy driven endeavor. And this gives you the formulas and tables that you need to make any recipe gluten-free, dairy-free, egg-free, or vegan. It is, yes. It is, it’s a bit of a tome. I mean it’s like it is a thick for sure. But this is just a page of photos of breaking down lumpy versus smooth pancake pattern.

Stephanie Hansen (23:20.877)

Wow. Okay. That’s helpful.

Stephanie Hansen (23:27.681)

Yeah, it’s a resource book.

Kelsey Lee (23:36.43)

You can see they give you a side-by-side. so if you’re somebody who is a trying to accommodate, trying to get away from recipes while accommodating gluten-free, dairy-free, egg-free, or or vegan eaters in your household or you yourself, I think this is a great resource to build that knowledge base to then be able to adapt any recipe yourself moving forward.

Stephanie Hansen (23:58.337)

I love it. All right, let’s go for one more cookbook and then we’ll wrap it up.

Kelsey Lee (24:03.287)

Perfect. what I want to go for here. So this maybe seems like an odd choice. so it’s pierogi love. Getting back to like you know culinary traditions. This one I brought into the store just to kind of round out my hand pie dumpling offering. And just this summer I think I’ve probably sold almost two dozen copies. People just love there’s something about a pierogi.

so I love this one because it’s not gonna take up a lot of space on your shelf, but you just get such a range of recipes in here. you have a photo for every recipe. and I just love the idea of like putting a ruben in a in a pierobi. You just you know you you take something, something large, something unexpected, put it in one of these, it’s just a delight. So

Stephanie Hansen (24:58.381)

The more diversity I’ve explored in the kitchen through the television show that I’m working on, I’ve realized like every culture has a hand pie, every culture has like a flatbread of something. It’s it’s very interesting when you start to just meet with people and how they all make their specialties from their heritage, but that how they’re all sort of linked also.

Kelsey Lee (25:06.238)

Yes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I l I love that something as delightful as a flatbread or a hand pie is like truly a thread that unites all of us.

Stephanie Hansen (25:32.259)

For sure. And that sort of wraps up what we’ve been talking about, which is community and learning about your neighbors and supporting your neighbors. Kelsey, are you online for people to shop your store?

Kelsey Lee (25:45.063)

We are online. We’re not yet doing sales online. we actually just yesterday launched a a very beta version of our website, so you can find us at potluckkitchenware.com. our hope is to have at least gift card sales online in time for this upcoming holiday season. so you can find us online there. We are also on Facebook and on TikTok.

Stephanie Hansen (26:10.677)

Okay, we will make sure to follow you. Thanks for spending time with me today. You guys, please visit Ely. You can find a lot of information about Ely businesses at visitealiemn.org. they’ve got a whole list of all the businesses in town, events and Harvest Moon Festival is coming up in September. That’s a big event for the retailers and for folks to come to town in September. I’ll be looking forward to that. Kelsey, thanks for your time today.

Kelsey Lee (26:37.283)

Yes. Thank you so much, Stephanie. It was great to be with.

Stephanie Hansen (26:41.197)

All right, we’ll talk soon. Okay, bye bye.

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In this episode of Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, host Stephanie Hansen speaks with Jordyn Stocks from Paragis Outfitters Bookstoreabout the impact of recent wildfires on the Ely community, the role of the bookstore in supporting local culture, and the hidden gems of Ely. They discuss the diverse offerings of thebookstore, including popular book recommendations and the importance of community support during challenging times.

Visit Ely, Minnesota for fun things to do year-round! Whether you are looking for a place to stay, a delicious meal, a hiking trail, or an immersion experience, we have businesses ready to meet your needs.

Stephanie Hansen (00:00.824)

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space, but I also talk to other people too. And I’ve been doing a little mini-series here for VisitElyMN.com to help you get to know some of the cool Ely businesses. Ely is my second home. It is the place where I wrote the True North Cabin cookbook, and it’s very near and dear to my heart. And you may have heard that they

Have experienced some wildfires in the Boundary Waters Canoe area and around that area this summer. As of this recording, I think the fires are about 40 to 50% contained. Some of the evacuation areas have been lifted. And the town has just really done a great job of keeping people informed and safe. And I’m here today with Jordan Stocks. She is from Piragis Outfitters.

And she particularly runs the bookstore that opened gosh, it was last summer already, wasn’t it, Jordyn?

Jordyn Stocks (00:59.77)

Yes, yeah. So in the new space, we’ve been there since last May, but the bookstore itself has been around in some version for over 20 years now. So it’s

Stephanie Hansen (01:11.286)

So what happened is is there was in the Piragis store, there was the bookstore on the second level, and they used to have another building down the street that they did some surplus kind of sales, and they’ve merged a lot of that together inside this building. And then you guys have paddle boards and canoes also across the street. Piragissort of owns this corner that has a lot of fun stuff going on in Ely and

I know that with the boundary waters permits being canceled and just opening up more recently to daytime. And I imagine we’ll get some more areas that’ll open up here as the summer progresses. Has it been a hard time for you guys at the store?

Jordyn Stocks (01:54.437)

It’s it’s yeah, it’s been a little bit different. It’s been a little quieter as you can imagine, in outfitting particularly without having the boundary waters open. We’ve definitely seen some slowdown in traffic there.

Stephanie Hansen (02:07.315)

And when you think about the bookstore, yeah. What

Jordyn Stocks (02:11.732)

Yeah, the bookstore and the store have maintained like we’ve still been busy. We’ve still seen traffic. you know, not as busy as it would normally be. Blueberry festival would have been this weekend, as you know. that didn’t happen. But yeah, overall it’s still been we’re hanging in there. It’s still been still been a good weekend, but yeah, quieter.

Stephanie Hansen (02:35.286)

It’s a good example of how smart it is for businesses to kind of silo to. Like, you know, you start with one thing that maybe is your core competency, but then to support the business through non-trip times, you know, you’ve got the clothing store and then you add the bookstore, which is kind of a year-round service business for the town in and of itself. It’s cool to have so many different facets. And I know you guys sell online too and have a pretty big online following.

Jordyn Stocks (02:43.473)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it it it does help that we have a few different things going on with the the clothing and the gifts and the gear and the books and the online presence. So that is that’s been nice to have all of that going on. And we’ve definitely seen an uptick in in online sales and phone sales. So we’re still shipping things out all over the country. We’re still selling things to, you know, fire crews that are here, local folks that are out and about.

People coming up for their cabins. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (03:37.612)

What is your history with Paragas and how did you get started and land in the bookstore component?

Jordyn Stocks (03:41.76)

well I’ve been here. This is my third no 14th summer here. So I started out just kind of part-time evening shifts in the retail store. And then the bookstore manager at the time, she was she was moving on to I think she was going back home to Chicago or somewhere. So I was excited about the prospect of working with the books and here I am.

Thirteen years later.

Stephanie Hansen (04:13.856)

And you are an Ely resident. Are there some features about Ely in particular or locations that you feel are like hidden gems?

Jordyn Stocks (04:23.909)

Yeah, so I was actually born and raised here. So I don’t know, growing up I kind of kind of probably took a lot of it for granted, but now you know seeing it with fresh eyes, I guess through people who were coming here for the first time and you know coming here repeatedly year after year. one of one of my favorite things is the the Ely Witten Historical Society. They have this cute little museum in the Vermillion Community College.

It’s it’s free, they just feel like goodwill donations, it’s self guided. But there’s a lot of really interesting historical things there. They have a lot of a lot of books that were written by local folks about history and like very specific history, like the Birdside River or Winton and the lumber industry. So that’s pretty fun local history. I love the sedan mine. It’s it’s open now for underground tours again, which I’m excited to do this summer. I haven’t gone

Years. Yeah, we just went.

Stephanie Hansen (05:19.384)

I’m trying to think.

I did go to the Sedan Underground mine tour. It’s super cool. I think I went, gosh, probably when I first started coming to Ely. So maybe, you know, like gosh, 20 years ago, but it was so cool to be taken underground and through the mine system. And you went with a original miner. So they would talk about like what their day was like. That seems like a unique

aspect of being in northeast Minnesota because mining was such a pillar of what was happening here at the time. And just like being underground and the constant temperature, that was one of the highlights of one of the things I’ve done in town.

Jordyn Stocks (06:04.049)

Yeah, yeah, it’s a it’s a very cool experience. I’d highly recommend doing that. but yeah, other than that, we’ve got a lot of great hiking trails, places to canoe and paddle and swim and do all those things. Berry picking. there’s always something to do. We’ve got a great yeah, we’ve got a great you know, local art scene with the theater and art shows, we’ve got the movie theater.

It’s just a lot of fun stuff to do, always always something.

Stephanie Hansen (06:38.12)

Absolutely. And I know you guys for such a smallish town, your bookstore has like a big footprint. You guys have sold a ton of the True North Cabin cookbooks for me, so thank you. Also, the Moon Tav the Moon Tavern.

Jordyn Stocks (06:49.271)

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Thanks for coming and Yeah. Yeah, the the new one’s been popular.

Stephanie Hansen (06:58.964)

And also Kurt’s book, The Barrens, the Canoe Book has still done well too. So I wanna thank you for that. And I know you guys have a lot of artists that come through and authors that come through. When you’re stocking the bookstore, like who would you say is your ideal customer that you’re stocking for? Because you have like such a great romance section, a good kid section.

Jordyn Stocks (07:21.126)

Gosh, that that’s a tough one. and it changes, I feel. a lot of people are just are looking for a book to take out on trip with them. Something something that’s gonna like be engaging right away, something that’s engrossing. they don’t want a lot of heavy reading necessarily. But we’ve also got people who want, you know, the latest best sellers, the things they’re seeing on on book talk or the

You know, Reese’s book picks or all those things. but also a lot of people looking for local history, things about the area, just something to kind of you know put them in the mindset of being here in the woods. Yeah. A lot of lot of different customers, a lot of variety.

Stephanie Hansen (08:07.916)

I imagine maybe that changes as you get into the winter months too and it’s more of the regular town folk versus the though you have a big visitors that come in the winter too, ‘cause we come and go snowmobiling, we cross country ski.

Jordyn Stocks (08:19.792)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, there’s definitely people coming all year round. It’s it’s of course, you know, a little a little more mellow in the winter, not as much foot traffic. But yeah, definitely a lot of locals will they’ll special order things, you know, they heard about on the radio or they read about in the paper, or you know, they’ve got

their favorite Minnesota authors having a new book come out and they want to pre-order that. So yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (08:49.877)

Yes. I love that. if you could pick three books that you think are kind of buzzy right now that you see that people are excited about, we’ll we’ll throw them out there because I think I’m always looking for new reads.

Jordyn Stocks (09:05.333)

Yeah, so people right now are looking for Theo of Golden. I’m blanking on the author’s name, but they’re also looking for the correspondent and Calamity Club. And then the newest William Kent Krueger book, which won’t be out till

August, but you know, they’re always looking for his latest.

Stephanie Hansen (09:29.815)

I think I’m the only one in the world that didn’t love that Theo of Golden Book, but you know, everybody’s got their own vibes.

Jordyn Stocks (09:34.01)

I haven’t read it, but I’ve definitely that seems like a book that people are either loving or they’re hating. There’s no in-between on that, as far as I’m hearing.

Stephanie Hansen (09:51.192)

I feel like that’s also what is the name of the book? And I bought it at your store about the social media influencer who gets dropped into the eighteen hundreds.

Jordyn Stocks (10:00.429)

Yesteryear. That one’s been really popular too. Yeah, that’s another love it or hate it one. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (10:02.347)

Yes. Another book that I yes, like I totally hate read that book and read the whole thing and hated it, but kept going. It it was, you know how sometimes you don’t love a book, but it’s compelling enough to keep reading and sort of see what happens at the end.

it’s fascinating, I think, that that book got so much traction. But I don’t know, like I I love the diversity of what you guys offer there. You have a ton of local too, like Abby Yaminez. I know you have a large section for her romance books. And romance is a big seller.

Jordyn Stocks (10:36.246)

We do. Yep. It is. We never used to carry much of it or like have much of a demand for it, but it’s been like flying off the shelves lately. I I don’t I don’t know what it is, but and and that’s not a genre that I typically read. So I I’ve been relying a lot on like s like coworker and customer recommendations, which has been fun. .

Stephanie Hansen (11:09.793)

It for your personal life, like you probably have to read a lot of books. Like how many books do you think you read in a month?

Jordyn Stocks (11:17.462)

And I I don’t know. I also listen to a lot of books, but I don’t know how many I read in a month. Probably like half a dozen, maybe. I don’t I don’t really know. I do

Stephanie Hansen (11:31.064)

That’s a lot. I listen to people talk about, you know, is listening to a book the same as reading or does it count? It’s like who’s keeping score number one? And yes, it counts. when you can think of a book that is narrated by someone that really makes it come alive, like I just listened to Whistler by Ann Patchett, which I don’t know if I would have liked that book as much if she hadn’t read it.

Jordyn Stocks (11:58.966)

Yeah, I totally get that. I I listen to more nonfiction, more memoirs and things, and I especially love when the author reads it. Like David Sederis will read his own, like Nick Offerman reads his own. They’re both really great to listen to. And it’s just I don’t know, it it I think it brings a lot more to it in that circumstance. So but yeah.

before we break here, I do want to mention that you guys have the catalog. And in the catalog are you have a lot of books in the catalog, a lot of the cookbooks, the seasonal books, there’s also gear.

Jordyn Stocks (13:16.393)

We do. We do, yeah, and we have the website as well that’s fully shoppable, the Boundary Waters catalog website. there’s I mean certainly more than what was in the catalog, but not not as much as in the store. But there is quite a variety there and I’m I’m always happy to special order things too if someone’s looking for something that they’re not seeing in the store or

on the website that’s happy to look for things. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (13:43.949)

That’s good to know. That’s good to know because I know there’s been a lot of interest in supporting Ely in particular. I’m going to link there’s a fund that’s been established that the United Way of Northeastern Minnesota is putting together and there’s three pillars that you can donate to. One is nonprofits, one is Ely specific small business, which I appreciate. And also there is an opportunity to donate to the Wildfire Fund. So

I will put that in the show notes. Anything you want people to know specifically about Ely before we break?

Jordyn Stocks (14:15.351)

Great.

gosh. it’s just it’s just such a great place to to live and to visit. There’s you know great people here. Just the way you know you’ve mentioned people have been showing up for one another and supporting people during this just weird, uncertain wildfire time. It’s it’s been really cool. It’s just a great place to be. Lots, yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (14:42.423)

I think so too. We’re lucky. And we’re lucky to have you, Jordan, be such a good supporter of books and reading. And I appreciate everything Piragis has done for our books. And I’m looking forward to seeing you soon. I always pop in to sign books and I’ll see you, I’m sure, in the next week.

Jordyn Stocks (14:59.62)

Yeah, sorry I missed you yesterday. Hopefully we’ll see you soon. All right. Wonderful. You too. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Bye.

Stephanie Hansen (15:02.34)

Yeah. you will, you will. It’s good to see you again, Jordan, and thanks for being a guest. Okay, bye-bye. Mm-hmm.

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Visit Ely, Minnesota for fun things to do year-round! Whether you are looking for a place to stay, a delicious meal, a hiking trail, or an immersion experience, we have businesses ready to meet your needs.

Stephanie Hansen (00:00:00)

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space typically, but also in the wellness spaces and all the beautiful spaces. I’m here today with Kate Kalan and she is with Etoile du Nord,which is a new spa that is located in Ely, Minnesota. And many of you know Ely is my second home. it is the home of the True North Cabin Cookbook where I wrote the books. And also I have a cabin here.

And it’s been kind of a summer. So I typically go back and forth between the twin cities and here. And Kate, you and I have never met, but I’m really excited about your new spa. You guys opened, was it last summer?

Kate (00:00:43)

Last spring, yeah, Earth Day we opened. So we’re on summer number two now. ⁓

Stephanie Hansen (00:00:46)

So so Kate, tell me about how you found yourself in Ely.

Kate (00:01:40)

So I was born and raised here. ⁓ I left to go to school, work in the cities for many, many years. ⁓ and then COVID happened ⁓ and I decided to come home. ⁓ So ⁓ I work remotely ⁓ up here ⁓ and I don’t know, I think it was about a year ⁓ working remotely that I ⁓

Don’t know Stephanie decided to do something different. ⁓ And ⁓ it was yeah, it was one summer my mom and I were were I was trying to get us a pedicure appointment and it was impossible. So ⁓ I was like, I I don’t know, let’s do this. I don’t know what sparked it. I think you know, my parents ran small businesses here when I grew up and

Stephanie Hansen (00:02:10)

Ha ha ha ⁓

Stephanie Hansen (00:02:32)

Yeah.

Kate (00:02:35)

I think I had just been talking to like a lot of entrepreneurs at the time. I don’t I don’t even know, but ⁓

Stephanie Hansen (00:02:40)

It it it makes sense though, because ⁓ what I noticed during COVID, we would come up in the winter and stay ⁓ we actually spent kind of a lot of time up here that winter ⁓ of the first year of COVID, just probably out of boredom more than anything else. ⁓ And we had free time. So, you know, the Northwoods was so gorgeous and so beautiful. I think that a lot of people came to this area.

Kate (00:02:48)

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (00:03:08)

In the COVID times, people came from other parts of the country. There were a lot of houses that were purchased. A lot of entrepreneurs came in. And for a town like Ely that has so much of its historical roots in mining, it was pretty neat to see all these entrepreneurs coming to town. So I when you opened your spa, I was like, hooray. And at that time too, another spa, the pebble spa, that was here closed. So people really, I think, appreciated that. opportunity to ⁓ welcome you in. And it started just primarily as nails, but I’ve noticed you’re doing more things now.

Kate (00:03:45)

Yeah. ⁓ we do manicures, pedicures. ⁓ this summer we brought on an esthetician. So she’s doing facials and like light chemical peels. ⁓ and then just recently this month we welcomed ⁓ massage therapists. So Jessie Brooks massage is working out of our our cozy little space. ⁓ so yeah, people are people are excited and so that makes me excited.

Stephanie Hansen (00:04:12)

So in the summer the population here swells, ⁓ up to like six thousand people. So it grows by like six to sevenfold really. ⁓ is ⁓ like if you and you’ve only been doing this this is your second year, I would imagine summer is a big part of the business or not.

Kate (00:04:25)

yeah. ⁓ we made it through ⁓ the winter, ⁓ but summer’s a completely different animal. I mean, the girls are are pretty booked and it’s wonderful. You know, we have so many seasonal people, just even from last summer who are excited to come back, which is ⁓ awesome to see. ⁓ you know, and then just the regular tourists and visitors, obviously this summer’s a little bit different. ⁓ but happy to say we’re we’re pretty steady, which has been awesome.

Stephanie Hansen (00:04:59)

It’s pretty interesting. I mean, I feel like the city of Ely and the folks in Ely have done a lot to spur winter tourism. I mean, snowmobiling is a big thing. We’ve got great cross-country ski trails. I mean, there’s things like Beard Fest ⁓ and they have the movie festival now. There’s also a winter festival, ⁓ ice sculptures, snow sculptures. ⁓ What do you think it would take in your opinion to get more people interested in Ely in the winter?

Kate (00:05:31)

I mean, I keep saying they should film a Hallmark movie up here. Like ⁓ it’s so, you know, it’s so cozy in the winter and it’s such ⁓ a special place to spend Christmas. ⁓ I just I always say this town has Hallmark vibes and so I really think they should come up here. But ⁓ you know, like you said, there’s stuff going on throughout the year. Fall is a beautiful time to visit. We’ll have the harvest moon hopefully this year, which will hopefully be bigger than ever. ⁓ they’ll have the art walk during that time. Like you said, we have the winter festival, the film festival. We have a new dark sky festival. I mean, they’re, you know, we’re really trying to get people up here year round. ⁓ obviously it’s beautiful right now and and wonderful. So I hope people still ⁓ you know, with respect to the firefighters and everything. ⁓ Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (00:06:20)

Yeah, let’s talk about that for a second because this will air in the next couple of weeks. And ⁓ on July, what was it, 7th, I believe, ⁓ there was a reignition of an older fire that had started through lightning called the campfire. But also concurrently, there were 14 other fires that were going in the Boundary Waters Canoe area has been really impacted. The small business in particular, they closed the boundary waters for it looks like it’ll be a minimum of two weeks and probably a little bit longer. They are starting to open for single day permits near kind of the Tofty Lutzen area, which is ⁓ pretty far from us, about 90 minutes. ⁓ when it it’s so hard to balance because I know you live here. I have a home here we have people that are friends we have that are evacuated and then are waiting to get back to their cabin spaces. And yet it’s like you’re living in this weird universe because I look outside. It’s a gorgeous, beautiful day. It feels fine. This is supposed to be the start of the blueberry festival. But I also as I promoted art festivals myself for 25 years. And I know, you know, to bring 40,000 people to town during this whole crisis when you’ve got 850 fire people on the line trying to protect the town could be seen as irresponsible. It’s a very mixed soup of feelings. What are your feelings as we’re going into week two of this? ⁓ basically evacuation all around the town of Ely.

Kate (00:07:58)

Yeah, it’s hard. Like you said, I mean, there were a few days where it has never felt like that here with the smoke and ⁓ it it was eerie. ⁓ but it it’s beautiful now. The sky is clear. That’s not to say we don’t still have wildfires happening up there. Like you said, there’s like 800 firefighters in town. We have to respect their space, ⁓ we have to respect, you know, the officials’ orders.

⁓ we have to make sure they have lodging and all of that. And it’s it’s a shame that Blueberry had to be canceled. But, you know, like you said, bringing thirty, forty thousand people into town on top of that. ⁓ just I understand why that decision was made. ⁓ I just hope we can make up for it, you know, like like you can visit Ely now. ⁓ I mean, the town the town is welcoming you very much so. ⁓And and I hope like I said in the fall and just when things calm down a little bit, ⁓ people will kind of make more of an effort and and think to to come up here and enjoy the leaves and ⁓ and plan some fall activities up here.

Stephanie Hansen (00:09:13)

We’re getting good vibes, I think, from the city folks and the people in the surrounding areas. A lot of people wanna know what they can do to help. Is there something specific to you and your business that people could do to help?

Kate (00:09:26)

Come visit us, come make appointments. ⁓ yeah, our nail girls are are booking out and we’re trying to fill up our esthetician schedule. ⁓ but yeah, we’re lucky to have a lot of local clients ⁓ who are very loyal and and just summer visitors who haven’t had to evacuate, thankfully. ⁓ but there’s a lot of stuff going on in town. The Ely Community Response has a growing list of ways to help. I just saw right before we hopped on actually, ⁓ there’s like a fund that that people are working on United Way, I think. ⁓ Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (00:10:03)

Yeah, the United Way of the Northeast has established a fund that is accepting donations. I’ll put a link to it in the show notes. There’s three kind of pillars, and you can ⁓ sp specify your donation to go to one of the pillars, one being the small businesses in Ely, one being ⁓ nonprofits, and then the other one to wildfire fighting in the area. So that’s pretty cool that they’ve established a line directly to small businesses.

I know a lot of people are ⁓ encouraging gift cards. Do you have gift cards that people can purchase too?

Kate (00:10:34)

Yep. Yep. Yep. Online a lot of businesses do.

Stephanie Hansen (00:10:38)

Can you tell me three businesses ⁓ in Ely that you feel like you’d like people to know about?

Kate (00:10:47)

man, Stephanie, that’s hard. ⁓ shoot. ⁓ let’s see. I I love Insula. I I that’s yeah, I figured you would. ⁓ I love Burnside Lodge. I think you would probably love that too. ⁓ I yes.

Stephanie Hansen (00:10:48)

⁓ I know it’s like saying here, pick three of your friends.

Stephanie Hansen (00:10:57)

I do too.

Stephanie Hansen (00:11:05)

I do. Burntside Lodge is a historic lodge and you can eat there for dinner. They have a walk in bar area, gifts, and you can lodge there. It’s historic lodges, they’re very beautiful. Insula is a restaurant right in town.

Kate (00:11:20)

Yeah. ⁓ I have a friend who owns Five Pines Candle Company. She just moved into the new carbonation Ely space, which was the old pebble space. ⁓ I love this. ⁓ They are they have like arcade games, they have a co-working space, they are eventually gonna have, I think, like dirty sodas, which are all the rage. ⁓

Stephanie Hansen (00:11:32)

What is carbonation ely?

Kate (00:11:45)

The state theater I love. That’s newly renovated. We have current movies playing, you know. I mean, just take a walk down Sheridan and Chapman Street. Like we’re open and and everyone would be very thrilled ⁓ to see you. ⁓ So ⁓

Stephanie Hansen (00:12:00)

Yeah.

Well, I’m looking forward to see you. If I showed you my ⁓ toenails or my nails right now, you’d be horrified. ⁓

Kate (00:12:10)

No. Me too. I tell my girls like I am a horrible spokesperson because I’m I talk like this. ⁓

Stephanie Hansen (00:12:17)

Yeah, ⁓ same. Like, please do not look. And I have a TV show that I do and I’m holding food all the time. So I really have to have my nails done. So like in this two week reprieve where I haven’t had to do it, it’s like, ⁓ it’s so great. But they just look terrible. So ⁓ I appreciate you. And I also appreciate massage. ⁓ I am someone that really believes in the power of massage. I get massage every week when I’m home.

And I just feel for like lymphatic purposes and just overall stress and well being it’s really important. ⁓ And so I’m looking forward to visit with Jesse at some point.

Kate (00:12:55)

Yes, yes. And same with facials. I just, ⁓ you know, and I don’t we try and take a really just kind of like holistic self-care approach. Like all of our products are non toxic, cruelty free, nearly everything is vegan. ⁓

Our space is just like cozy and welcoming. Like we just want people to take a little bit of time for themselves. Obviously, there’s crazy, crazy things going on in the world. And it’s just like you said, that is ⁓ really important ⁓ just to kind of level set and and take an hour for yourself or whatever it may be. So yeah. ⁓

Stephanie Hansen (00:13:33)

Yeah, I love it. Well, I am a huge fan of what you’re doing. I’m a huge fan of Ely and all the new small businesses that have opened up in the last five years since COVID. Can you believe it? ⁓ and there’s just so many there’s so many great things about Ely. I’m a I’m a big supporter and I’m hopeful that I in some ways I wonder if kind of looking at the positive side of things, that all of this wildfire activity will sign will bring a shine a light.on the community and how amazing it’s been, how supportive of the firefighters, how the Ely community’s response really mobilized. There what impressed me about them so much is everybody talks about like, let me know what I can do or how can we help. And they just like got a Google spreadsheet, got a substack going, got a Facebook page, like people just started matching literal needs with people that needed them. So if someone needed a place to stay, they found it. If someone needed a mattress for the back of a truck, because that’s where they were going to be, they found it. They really talked about how you can build an inexpensive air filter for your home. It it was so just impressive how fast and how real the response and help was.

Kate (00:14:50)

Yeah, and social media, man, our WhatsApp Ely Facebook group is like ⁓ it’s a godsend in in some ways, you know. ⁓ but yeah, so there’s there’s a lot available for people to do in town right now. And and I think that’s important for for everyone to know. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen (00:15:10)

Yeah, come visit Ely. There’s whether you come spring, summer, winter, or fall, outside of there’s beautiful lakes, ⁓ lots of lodging. ⁓ there’s pickleball, there’s gonna be a new brewery in town, there’s entertainment in the park, ⁓ there is the big festivals, there’s just so much happening all the time. So thanks for talking to me, Kate. I will come in and see you soon next time I swing through town. Okay.

Kate (00:14:50)

Thank you, it was great to finally meet you. Okay. Okay. Bye.

Stephanie Hansen (00:15:39)

Yes, you too, and we’ll talk soon. Okay. Bye bye.

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My guest is Kurt Johnson Co-author of The Moon Tavern, A Culinary Love Story With Recipes. The Moon Tavern takes the reader on a romantic and culinary journey through the Islands of Croatia, where dark family secrets are revealed, quirky friends and relatives are found, and love is discovered.Vesna, or Ves, is a cookbook writer from Minneapolis who travels to the remote, exotic island of Lastovo off Croatia's Mediterranean coast to reconnect with her biological grandmother. She'd been adopted as a young child after her parents died in the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s. Ves is also fleeing a frayed relationship with her live-in partner, Reed.In Lastovo, she meets Dinko, a single, handsome, and wealthy vineyard owner, and his cute daughter Mia. With his help with the translation, Ves discovers her biological family's history and the dark secrets of what happened during the war. Romance, travel, and cooking ensue. She ultimately learns what matters most to her: simplicity in life, closeness with family, and someone to share love with. And, of course, food!

Stephanie [00:00:00]:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space and other spaces. All the spaces of all the fun things. Kurt is my spouse, Kurt Johnson, and also the co author of the Moon Tavern, a culinary romance with recipes. It is a fiction book that is available on your bookshelf now. Welcome to the podcast, Kurt.

Kurt Johnson [00:00:22]:

Hi, thanks for having me.

Stephanie [00:00:24]:

Thanks for having us. The idea that we should work on a book together. I am, as many of you listening know, a cookbook writer and my husband is a fiction writer. And somewhere along the way, we decided that maybe it would be good to collaborate together. Kurt, was it you or me that had the idea first? I think it was you.

Kurt Johnson [00:00:42]:

Yeah, probably. I was kind of done with my past book writing about Las Vegas and looking for something different. And we’d been traveling a lot, so going to Croatia, going to Italy, going out west, going to Turkey. So I wanted to incorporate travel with a novel, and I also wanted to incorporate food. And so I thought this would be a lot of fun. Since we’re traveling together, we have those shared experiences and you have the food experience and the food writing experience. So I thought it’d be a fun collaboration. And I’ve always liked the idea of love stories.

Kurt Johnson [00:01:18]:

Even my thriller books in Las Vegas had kind of a love story element. And it adds a dimension to a novel that, I don’t know, makes it cohesive, makes it pull together in an emotional arc that’s kind of fulfilling in the end.

Stephanie [00:01:33]:

Do you think you’re a romantic at heart, or what is it about romances that are fun to write for you?

Kurt Johnson [00:01:39]:

Maybe I’m a romance at heart. I may be more stoic than that, though. I just. I like the idea of seeing people get together, seeing people enjoy the same interests and finding people that can fall in love. Of course, that’s always the fun part. The hard part is once you get married and move on from there and have to deal with kids and daily life and work and all the other things that go with living life. And that’s not that much fun to write.

Stephanie [00:02:07]:

Yeah, exactly. We as a couple, I think I can speak for me and you maybe on this one. We’ve always had great experiences traveling. We are good traveling companions. We like the spirit of adventure. Did you know that Croatia would be the spot for the first fiction endeavor?

Kurt Johnson [00:02:24]:

Yeah, that was a given since we’d been there five times and four times running a sailboat and visiting the islands. And as you know, Stephanie, I’m just enamored with those islands, I think they’re so beautiful. And there was one island we discovered out there, Lastovo, which is the furthest island out. So a lot of the sailors and tourists just never get there. They stay closer to shore. So, you know, going out there the first time, this beautiful bay of Zachlopedia, where, you know, it’s a, it’s a protective cove which is beautiful turquoise water. And then taking the dinghy in, and then you walk up this path, I think it’s about a two mile hike. And then you go over this ridge and this 16th, 15th century town opens up.

Kurt Johnson [00:03:10]:

You know, at one point maybe it had 10,000 residents. And, and it, it, when we first saw it, I don’t know, 10, 15 years ago, it was abandoned. So it was a ghost town of 15th century buildings and churches and apartments in this beautiful valley of lush green foliage. So that’s very picturesque. We had an incredible meal there of just simple anchovies and blitfa. And for you, for you people out there that don’t know, blitfa is ubiquitous in Croatia. And it’s, it’s just spring potatoes with Swiss chard, but it’s served with everything.

Stephanie [00:03:52]:

It is served with everything. And they sometimes have spinach, sometimes have like another type of green, but it’s sort of like the potatoes are cooked till they’re pretty soft, and then it’s kind of mashed in a little bit. So it’s not fully a mashed potato and it’s not fully a roasted potato. It’s sort of a combination of both. But it is good.

Kurt Johnson [00:04:12]:

Yeah, so, yeah, that’s so, you know, it seemed such an exotic place, the island of Lastovo in Croatia, that it was a natural to place it there.

Stephanie [00:04:23]:

Can you tell a little bit of just an introduction of the story, like what people will find when they crack open the book?

Kurt Johnson [00:04:30]:

Sure. It’s about Vesna, who is. Has a breakup with her live in boyfriend, and they’d had a restaurant. She was a chef, a cookbook authority, and had a restaurant, not unlike my dear wife Stephanie. And she has a breakup and she leaves Minneapolis to go to Croatia to uncover her. Her heritage. She had been adopted from Croatia, specifically Dubrovnik, when her parents died in the Serb bombing of Dubrovnik in 1991. So she was adopted out of there and raised in Minnesota.

Kurt Johnson [00:05:05]:

So then she goes to Croatia and rediscovers her dark family secrets and meets Dinko Radek, who is a winery owner, and, you know, romance ensues. But she has a life still back in Minneapolis that she has to go back to and resolve.

Stephanie [00:05:24]:

When we talked about putting this first concept together, you know, I see the world through food. Like, literally everything in sort of my life is framed by a meal, an experience, just the way that I see the world. It’s always around food, celebrations. And so did you know that that would work for this Croatia book? Because I didn’t. When you first brought it up, I was like, I can’t be a Croatian grandma here. And writing recipes about what at the time I perceived as, like, dumplings.

Kurt Johnson [00:05:53]:

Yeah, I wasn’t sure either, frankly. You know, so each chapter, there’s 25 chapters, and each chapter in it has a description of cooking. And it’s all Croatia cooking, Croatia recipes. You know, all food we at over the years where we were there. And then the idea of tagging on recipes was just kind of bringing it home. Like, here’s the Croatia experience. Now here’s how Stephanie would bring that back to the real world, which is here in the United States.

Stephanie [00:06:21]:

We have talked about doing a series of books. What is it about this genre that you think lends itself to other titles and other characters?

Kurt Johnson [00:06:29]:

Well, you know, it’s an adventure book on one level, and there’s always new places to visit. So the next book is based in Panza, Italy, where we’ve been a couple times. And it’s this beautiful island off the coast of Italy in the Mediterranean. And, you know, Italian food. You go to Italy and what you remember is the pizza in Naples or the. The pasta in Rome and. And the busteca up in the hills. So, you know, a way to experience a place is.

Kurt Johnson [00:07:04]:

Is through food. And I like writing about new settings. You know, it. It’s not as interesting writing about Minnesota,

Stephanie [00:07:11]:

but you’ve written a lot about Las Vegas. You’ve had how many books about Las Vegas? Three.

Kurt Johnson [00:07:16]:

Yeah, three. You know, two of the. Of kind of a thriller in. Two thrillers in a series, and then a book about RVing that ends up in. In Las Vegas. And Las Vegas is a interesting place, and I lived there for five years running nightclubs and restaurants. And so two of the books are Underbelly of Las Vegas, which I was a part of in the nightclub scene back in the late 80s. So that’s just flat out fun to write about.

Kurt Johnson [00:07:39]:

And Las Vegas is such a weirdo place that it’s fun to bring that to life.

Stephanie [00:07:45]:

It’s interesting to hear you talk about that. The way you choose your stories is about place, because the first book, the Barrens, that you wrote with our Daughter Ellie, inspired by her experiences as a canoe camper in the tundra. That’s also based in Place, too. Place is sort of what starts you on these journeys. It seems like, yeah, you know something,

Kurt Johnson [00:08:07]:

you threw me a curveball because I never really thought about it. But you’re exactly right.

Stephanie [00:08:12]:

All.

Kurt Johnson [00:08:12]:

All these books start off with a setting, with a place, and then, you know, the plots revolve around. Around that. And there’s just so many. So many different. There’s a finite number of, really, plots you can choose from. It’s kind of like a piano keyboard has all the. The notes that you want to make up a. A music piece the same way with plot structures.

Kurt Johnson [00:08:34]:

And so to take it to the next level, you really have to search out characters, and the characters are in a setting, so those two are inexplicably, Inextricably. Inextricably linked. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, the two go hand in hand. So character and place really can set a novel apart.

Stephanie [00:08:59]:

Can you think of other books that you’ve written or. Excuse me. No, not that you’ve written, that you’ve read. Where Place sort of started you off on this adventure?

Kurt Johnson [00:09:07]:

Yeah, probably. I really love Beautiful Ruins.

Stephanie [00:09:11]:

Jess Walters.

Kurt Johnson [00:09:13]:

Walters, yeah. And that starts off in Italy, kind of near Cinque de Terre. And it’s kind of the poor version of Cinque de Terre, where the tourists don’t go. And it was such a fascinating story. And then they bring that all back to Hollywood in America, and it just works so well. But what really captures your imagination is the description of this little seaside community. Before the whole plot takes over, I

Stephanie [00:09:41]:

kind of think about that book. The Embarrassment of Mangoes.

Kurt Johnson [00:09:44]:

Yeah.

Stephanie [00:09:44]:

When you and I first started sailing and going on these adventures, we read that book. It was about a couple that buys a boat and sails through the Caribbean, and she is discovering spices and fruits and vegetables and things that she’s never eaten before. And I just loved that book. It was really what got me into sailing and thinking about how to make that our life and whether or not, you know, we could buy a boat and do that. And that boat really had a huge setting of place. Can you think of, like. I don’t know. When I think of other books, there’s very few books that I think about character first.

Stephanie [00:10:19]:

I usually always think about the place. Maybe that’s just something.

Kurt Johnson [00:10:22]:

Or the plot, too. Yeah, they’re all just linked together. And you don’t think about. Well, you were saying you don’t think about character as much.

Stephanie [00:10:31]:

Not really.

Kurt Johnson [00:10:32]:

Yeah, it’s funny. I think, you know, the best books people say are character driven, but they’re inexplicable. What’s the word again?

Stephanie [00:10:41]:

Inextricably.

Kurt Johnson [00:10:43]:

Inextricably. Trouble with that. Linked. So, you know, you pick a place and you pick a plot and then you build these characters. The characters have to build around that plot and so they kind of naturally flow. And, and I, I think they, if they’re well written and honest, you shouldn’t think of them. You know, they’re interesting characters and you’ll say, you know, this is Rabbit and the Rabbit series. And you’ll know, but you won’t say, oh, that’s just a great character.

Kurt Johnson [00:11:10]:

I, I, I don’t know that I certainly, you know, I’m probably deep into it and I look at the craft a lot so I can see where somebody has really spent some time to develop an honest character or where, you know, the narrative voice comes through and, and a character comes to life through this first person narrative voice. So I see that a lot more

Stephanie [00:11:30]:

people have a real, like they can’t believe you can write a book. Like the idea of the literal act of sitting down and writing and how that works. People fantasize about writing it, but then very few people do. What was it that got you over the hump from thinking about writing it to actually sitting down and doing it?

Kurt Johnson [00:11:47]:

Well, selling our business and all of a sudden being able to free up time. Because for me, novel writing and I think was it Chrisham talked about, you know, writing at 5 in the morning before he goes to work at 7. I just couldn’t do that. You know, I just, I’m very focused on one thing and, and so I needed to free up my time from work in order to get going. And then it was, can you put together, you know, a thousand or fifteen hundred words every day so that it links up into a novel and have that, not only that, that discipline, but also have the creative juices to produce scenes almost every day because, you know, like a, a good novel is created from 50 scenes. So I went from, you know, writing a memoir that I probably won’t publish just to see if I can get, you know, a thousand words every day and put this together to then writing Las Vegas turnaround. And there I, I, I really just copied a lot of plot structures that I saw that I liked. And so it was easier for me to set up main characters, set up tertiary characters, subplots, because I had a blueprint from somebody else.

Kurt Johnson [00:12:56]:

And then, and then once, you know, you Keep writing. You get muscle memory for it and it becomes more, more natural and actually more fun because it becomes more organic. You’ll follow characters through a town and they’ll meet somebody and all of a sudden that person becomes a character in their universe and they say something and all of a sudden that takes off and you have to follow it. Now, you know, the woman’s gonna fall in love with a guy at the end. But getting there is the fun part. And now I can do that a lot more organically.

Stephanie [00:13:27]:

If you are talking to any aspiring novel writers, what kind of advice do you have for them to get started?

Kurt Johnson [00:13:34]:

Well, you know, you gotta lower your expectations just because publishing is so hard, you know.

Stephanie [00:13:39]:

Can you elaborate on that?

Kurt Johnson [00:13:41]:

Well, you know, there’s maybe two or three or 400 agents, most of them in New York City and they’re all trying to make a buck. And it’s hard to make a buck off a debut writer. It helps if you’re MFA and you’re writing in a genre because, you know, let’s say 70% of the books are read by women and 70% of those are romances. And then men, the other 30%, probably 80% of what they read are, you know, thrillers or mysteries. So if you can pick a genre, that always helps. But yeah, it, you have to be more thoughtful about it. And I think, I think so many first time writers, you know, once they get the discipline and put, put the, the words on a page, they write that first personal novel, you know, and I wrote my memoir and it’s, it’s really 90% of those, they, you know, people have the, they aspire for the great American novel and it’s too personal, it’s too close to home. They can’t break out from the reality of their lives to have fun with the plot and make things happen.

Kurt Johnson [00:14:45]:

So a lot of times these books, nothing happens. They’re deeply emotional books where nothing happens and they’re, they’re excruciatingly boring. So you gotta get past that phase and then you gotta look at it as a, as a craft. And, you know, a big chunk of it’s art, of course, whatever you wanna call that, you know, shedding light on the human experience. But a big chunk is craft. And I don’t think you can get to the craft for most people in that first book. So you gotta keep writing, you know, and realize that the first couple books may not get published. So, you know, the barons got published.

Kurt Johnson [00:15:21]:

That was one, two, that was my third, fourth book, you know, and the, and two, the, the first three, two of them were duds that will never be published.

Stephanie [00:15:31]:

Yeah. Yeah. All right, well, it’s good to chat with you about the book. We are in the marketing process of the book. I feel like books come in three waves. One is the idea that you’re thinking about it. The second, the actual writing of it. And then the third is actual the marketing of it.

Stephanie [00:15:48]:

What do you think’s the hardest part?

Kurt Johnson [00:15:49]:

Well, I mean, it’s. The hardest part’s finding an agent and finding a publisher. Then if you self publish, the hardest part is marketing. And at least it is for me because writing is so natural and fun for me. But I think for most people, you know, the writing’s a hard part. And, and you know, like the Minnesota writer o’, Brien, he hates writing, so he forces himself. Tim o’. Brien.

Kurt Johnson [00:16:12]:

So he forces himself to get those books out there. So probably that’s the hardest part for him.

Stephanie [00:16:17]:

We had, I had a cookbook, two cookbooks out and I had a publisher, but they didn’t publish this book because it was a fiction book. I think some people just assume like, oh, well, they’ve already had books out, but we self published this book. Why did we make that decision from your standpoint?

Kurt Johnson [00:16:33]:

Well, we couldn’t get an A list agent or a New York publisher. There’s just not, it comes off as almost a debut book and it’s hard for them to make any money. So if you can’t get an A lister, then you’re, you know, stuck with boutique publishing companies and others and, and they just don’t support the marketing of your book. And I’ve self published books in the past, so I know how to do it. I know how to put a professional product out there. And, and we can, you know, both of us are marketers and, and Stephanie has a large platform, so we can do a lot of our own marketing or, or outsource it, you know, but still we retain most of the profits. So when we do the marketing, we can reinvested or keep those profits.

Stephanie [00:17:17]:

Yeah, I, when you say profits, it sounds like there’s a lot there. I’d like to, I mean, I mean,

Kurt Johnson [00:17:22]:

maybe, maybe we broke it even at this point, but then now we’re looking at a marketing PR firm that’s going to set us back another $5,000. But you know, if, if these books succeed and somebody makes a lot of money, it’s the, it’s the third, you know, book that’s going to put them over the top. It’s not the first.

Stephanie [00:17:40]:

I have this idea too that we’re going to write these books and then sooner or later someone’s going to turn them into a T series because it’s going to be like the White Lotus where each season is a different location and a different cast of characters, but sort of the general premise is sort of the same.

Kurt Johnson [00:17:56]:

I hope so. You know, I hope an A list agent comes along and, and frees us from our servitude or whatever. And, but, and yeah, you know, there’s, there’s plenty of stories of self published authors that, that get deals or even boutique. Boutique authors that get deals. So you know, we can dream.

Stephanie [00:18:16]:

One thing that I’d like the listener to hear is what their part is in this because we’ve. I was leaving the coffee shop today. We’re in Ely. That is the vacation backgrounds. But.

Kurt Johnson [00:18:25]:

Right.

Stephanie [00:18:25]:

I was leaving the coffee shop today and a woman stopped me and said, Stephanie, I had the opportunity to read the Moon Tavern. It’s so good. I loved it so much. And she’s telling me about it and telling her friend. And I have that experience a lot where people have really, really enjoyed this book. And I just want the listener to know that leaving reviews on Goodreads or Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever you bought the book or if you can’ find a book, asking for it at your local bookseller. Cause they can always order it when you’re self published. The more buzz you can create about these books, the better chance that someone will hear about it, someone will buy it and eventually a publisher, if they hear about a book and they like it, then they may pick it up.

Stephanie [00:19:03]:

So I think if you like what you’re reading and you want to see more of this type of work in the world and books that you like, that’s something that you can do to help us out.

Kurt Johnson [00:19:13]:

Yes, a 5 on Amazon or top rating on any other Goodreads is good too. Yeah, it’s, it’s all, it’s all good. So yes, those, those help a lot. Just because the more reviews you can get and the more five star reviews you get, the more people will pick up the book, the more buzz you’ll get. So yeah, so it helps us immeasurably.

Stephanie [00:19:35]:

Another thing before we wrap up here, someone asked me about the Cover of the book. Do you want to talk about how you picked the artwork?

Kurt Johnson [00:19:41]:

Yeah, I was pretty much online Xee Reider, she’s in St. Paul and she’s a muralist mostly. And I really liked the look that she had. So I reached out to her, and she did the original artwork, and then each chapter ends with a recipe, and there’s a pen and ink drawing, and she did those. And I really think that adds another level to the book. And I love a beautiful cover.

Stephanie [00:20:10]:

Yeah, the cover is really nice. She did a great job. All right, well, that is it for this episode of the podcast. Just want to chat with you and give people a little background. Thanks for being a guest.

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Original Episode Transcript Follows

Stephanie Hansen:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space. And also today, we’re going to talk travel, because whenever I travel, food’s always a big part of it. I’m here with my friend Michael Kenny, and he owns the travel agency Defined Destinations. And Michael and I met and have gone on a number of trips. We’ve gone to Croatia together. We’re just about to embark on Turkey. We are also planning a new trip that we just launched, that is a trip to South Africa. And a lot of times the best way to get people excited about these trips is to talk about them.

And Michael does more than that. He scouts them out for me first. So, Michael, you went to this trip?

Michael Kenney:

I did. I’m your personal scout, but I love it. There’s not a. There’s not a better deal than being able to do that and then going on with you and Kurt and with everybody else. So we’ve had some fun adventures. But, yes, I recently got back with my family. We went scouted this South Africa trip out, or Southern Africa, I should say that we visit four different countries. And it was.

I’ve been on a safari before, but it was in. In Kenya, which was fabulous as well. But this is a whole different experience. So I brought my wife and my two kids, and we had one of the best experiences, from seeing Cape Town to Johannesburg and then all the wildlife, different lodges and on boats. So we do all these different sorts of transportation and see four different countries. And it was unbelievable. I came back really, really excited. I was excited in the beginning, but having gone on it and then really first experiencing it firsthand was phenomenal.

And. And I knew you and Kurt would love it. And of course, everyone that follows you as well. It was just. It’s really a trip of a lifetime.

Stephanie Hansen:

So we put the trip out there. It is a more expensive trip, and we had a limited number of seats we had that could join the trip. And, you know, I’ve never done a trip that is on the higher end like that in terms of expense. And you’re just. You have a lot of in flight situations within the country. You have a lot of different lodging situations. There’s a boat, like, in order to do all the things we wanted to do, there were a lot of moving parts.

Michael Kenney:

Yep.

Stephanie Hansen:

So we put the trip out there and it sold out, like, right away. Right. So then Michael was like, okay, do we want to try and do another one? And of course we do, because I want you guys to have as many of these experiences as we can put together. Because I think traveling this way is great. I love traveling in a group for destinations that maybe I’m not comfortable in fully by myself. So Michael has secured another trip, a second round that is the same itinerary, but they leave. I think it’s a day later.

Michael Kenney:

Yes. And let me just touch on that. You hit some good points in there. Yeah. One reason the trip, it’s, it’s. It’s definitely at the highest price point we’ve ever offered a trip. But I think if you’re going out there and you’re shopping in African safari, you see that as well. So the value is there with all the different.

Essentially all the meals are included where we’re at on, on this trip, the inner flights inside the countries as well. From a couple smaller bush planes to the larger flights that go from Cape Town to Johannesburg, Johannesburg up towards Victoria Falls, etc. Those are already included in all the transfers. And this is a different trip too, Stephanie, because it’s not like a typical motor coach group that you’re going with all these big lodges and motor coaches coming in. This trip is. Can only take 16 people. It’s not because we design it that way, it’s the ship only handles 16 people. So if you go on our website, you take a look at it, you’ll see this small intimate cruiser on this river slash lake, Lake Kariba, which is part of the Zambezi.

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Michael Kenney:

And in the game lodge that we stayed at too for four nights as well there, there’s only eight cabins for 16 people. So it’s a real intimate experience and it will only be for our group. Same thing for your departure on May 8 and the 1 that we still have, there’s only. We just sold one another cabin online just, just now. So there’s four cabins left May 9th through the 25th of 2027. Same thing is gonna be true for that. It’s only gonna be our group as well. So there’s no other groups going to be in, on, on the ship and then in the lodge too.

Michael Kenney:

So it’s a real small intimate experience and it’s just real, real lovely.

Stephanie Hansen:

Can you walk us through like some of the high points having done this trip?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. Oh, what do you start? I think this is just. Sometimes you use the word potpourri too much, but it’s, it’s really a bit of different. You know, you think you go to Africa just for the safari itself, but we go in and we visit Cape Town and Cape Town blew me away. It was one of the most beautiful cities and I’m not necessarily a city person, but it was just beautiful sitting under Table Mountain. We’ll go up to Table Mountain, we’ll go visit the areas around it, we’ll go visit some vineyards. South African wine is to die for. We’ll visit that.

We have a wine tasting included. We get to see penguins on this penguin beach in South Africa, which I didn’t know there was penguins in, in South Africa. So we’re actually good to go see those. And you actually get up pretty close too, so that was a real highlight. Nelson Mandela’s home in the prison, we’re going to go visit that. So we have a cultural experience as well. But then we fly into Johannesburg. We’ll get to hear the history in Johannesburg for a night.

And then we fly further north and we go into the. Our game lodge. We spend for four days right on the Zambezi River. You’ll absolutely love this place. You’re. You’re really well taken care of. You eat really well and you see the wildlife all around you right from your lodge. You sit in your plunge pool and there could be hippos down below you.

It’s incredible. It’s just a real amazing experience. And then we fly to Lake Kariba, we get on the boat itself and we have four nights again. There’s just 16 of us total. And it’s. This is where it’s really different. You glide up into shore and there can be elephants, giraffes, lions feeding in the water itself. It’s.

This isn’t a zoo. This is incredible. You are right there with it. That a real slow experience. You’re really able to take it in. So I invite, you know, anybody that’s watching this to go online. Just take a look at our photos. It’s free to do that and we pride ourselves.

The majority of all the photos on it were taken while on the trip, especially with me and my family. So you’ll get to really see what it really was, was like. So say you’ve done a trip to Tanzania or Kenya and have done a safari. This is. This is different. You see four different countries. It’s a slower pace, smaller groups. It lovely.

So those are really the experiences that I enjoyed the most, were the penguins seeing around Cape Town. Of course, the different game drives all the different wildlife. Victoria Falls, which is one of the most stunning waterfalls you’ll ever see. It was. It was really enlightening and it was fabulous and everything’s taken care of for you. So to Be able to do something on this on your own. To do the same trip would be really difficult. Putting all the flights together, the meals, what are we going to do? We’ve taken care of all of that.

All you have to do essentially is register for the trip and then we can help you with getting international airfare when it does come available later in the summer for this May 9th through the 25th, 2027 trip. So it, it was just an amazing experience.

Stephanie Hansen:

So can you talk a little bit about the food? Because I have no idea what African food is going to be like.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, I, I think this, it’s not like we’re out eating street food, you know, in some of the villages we’re not doing that. It’s all in a controlled environment from the salads to things like that because you want to drink bottled water. We never got sick while on the trip itself, but it’s, it’s real, it’s westernized, let’s say that. So a lot of meat and potatoes and fish and different things like that. So there won’t be anything a little bit, I think outside of your comfort zone. So I, we really, really. Well, like lots of beef, chicken, sometimes there’d be lamb, but you can have choices too. So they’re really great with diets with that.

But again, the food was really safe. Nothing too exotic. You have a chance. Maybe you want to try ostrich or something like that. You can do that. But it’s a real, it’s really high level too. Especially at the lodges and the boats itself. All sit down plated meals.

Really, really nice. But again it’s, it’s, it’s safer on the meat and potato side on that. But it’s, it’s really nice high end food which you’ll, I think I, I know you’ll enjoy.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And was there different fruit?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, some of the fruits, I can’t remember. You’d be like, well, what is that? I don’t know. Honestly, I wish I had the list on there. Like, well, what is that? Well, let’s, let’s try it. If you’re in the markets and things like that. But they, they do, especially in the mornings they’ll bring some fruits on, on the plate and you’ll have, you’re like, well what? And you just try it. So yeah, I’m not really good to help you on that. I’m sorry.

No, but it’s there exotic fruits whenever

Stephanie Hansen:

we’re traveling because we went to Thailand together. We’ve been to Vietnam, Cambodia, whenever we’re Traveling in these countries, there’s always fruits that I’ve never, I don’t even know what they are like. I’m just always amazed by how many fruits there are in the world.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, it’s crazy. Like I said, you go through and you’re like, what is that? Especially on our Vietnam, Cambodia trip here, it’s, that’s, that’s really exotic with the food. This is a little bit different, but yeah, we’re in the southern hemisphere, right down to the Cape of Good Hope, which you’ll actually see too. So you see different, different foods for sure, so they’ll point that out too. But it’s. The main course is definitely not exotic, but you’ll see some really neat, neat, different fruits, things like that.

Stephanie Hansen:

We talked about South African wines, so I’m glad we’re doing that because that was a blast. So this second itinerary leaves a day later. Will there ever be an opportunity where I will overlap and interact with the second? It’s kind of hard to tell at this point.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, it, it really is. And we’ll know a little bit more later on because we’re in, in contact because we’ll have they. The ships. We have two different ships on it and it’s just a day apart, like you said. But we’re in the lodge for four days. Our lodges are different, they’re close by. But we’re working on trying to see maybe if we get a couple game drives together, maybe maybe a meal somewhere that we could see each other once or twice during, or maybe even three times with Cape Town too, that we could run into each other as well. So if you decide to book, because you won’t be on the second trip, the second departure, we’re hoping two or three times we’ll be able to, to, to run in each other.

But again, it’s not guaranteed. But we’re very hopeful because both of the ships are completely ours. So I’m sure we can, we can do a little overlapping in our two lodge stays. They’re relatively close, but they’re, they’re different from each other. So we might be able to pop in and visit each other maybe for a happy hour on one of our boats, because each lodge has got like its own beautiful pontoon to go out and go look at the wildlife and we might run into that too, but. Yeah, but other than that, and you’re not being on the second one, their tenders are the same, just different lodges. And they’re both very, very amazing, high quality lodges. And again, if you go Online, you can see both the different boats and the lodges too, which you’ll absolutely love.

Stephanie Hansen:

I love too, Michael, that you actually took these trips. When I travel with you, you’re very upfront about what, you know, what, you don’t know. We get in country guides if we need more expertise, and a lot of times you want that because you want a local person to share with you the local feel of the place and to give you information based on their perspective of living there or being familiar with the country.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, I think that that’s, that’s, that’s really important. People want to not just get the information to make sure it’s correct, but just like what’s life like being you’re from Namibia or Zimbabwe or South Africa and we have these local guides. We have, you know, the folks with us in the lodge and when we’re doing the game drives a professional that will tell you, you know, what you’re seeing, how they, you know, migration or whatever they’re doing and what they consume, all of that. So you’ve got that, that credibility too. So we have that throughout, from our city guides to our, our on land folks as well. You’ll really get that expertise. So you’ll, you’ll come back feeling, you know, about the people itself, which there’s. We could have different podcast talking about that.

I loved it. And then, you know, the animals that you’re going to sing like, oh, I didn’t know. It’s, it’s a really educational but rewarding, relaxing trip as well, which you, you, I know you’ll, you’ll enjoy.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I’m looking forward to it. And people say that the African people are like just fabulous.

Michael Kenney:

They are it. And again, I’ve been to Africa a few times not, not to, to these parts. The people are wonderful. And I don’t know if you’re going to bring it up, but the languages. So revisiting different four countries and, and they, they speak different dialects of in. In the different countries and different languages as well, from English to African and wherever, you know, from where their group is from. But they use English as kind of the common language. So you’ll.

If we have a little overlap with some of our guides from Namibia to Botswana, they’re going to speak English with each other, which was. I was like, oh, wow. I didn’t, you know, really realize that. So the language is never a problem. Everything’s in English. Even in. Through all of the countries visited. You would see the road signs.

It’s all in English, which was like, oh, wow, that’s interesting. But then you get to hear them speaking with each other, their languages and they’ll talk about that too. But I was, I was really surprised about the whole language situation being it really a lot of English.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I’m excited about that. Okay, so when we say expensive, can you just say on the podcast how much the trip is? Because I don’t want people not to explore it.

Michael Kenney:

Oh yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

You get so many things and a lot of people that are, you know, TV hosts and that sort of thing are hosting week long trips places and they cost more than this trip costs.

Michael Kenney:

So yeah, for the, for the land only per person It’s $12,000. And so you, other than that you just need to get your international airfare to and from South Africa. And we have that all written down if you want to look at and for it yourself. But like I mentioned earlier, rates don’t come out availability about 10 months prior to departure. So it’ll be sometime later this summer, maybe in July that you’ll start seeing what rates would be to fly into to Cape Town with that. But again the value is really there. It’s typically double the price that we usually have for our trips going to Europe and other places like that. But I think if you go through it and if you’ve done your research, if you’ve looked at trips to Africa before, you’ll see the value there with all the, all the flights, all the meals, all that included and it, like you said it, it’s sold out right away.

People I think understand that too. And we only have a few cabins left on the second departure so hopefully you’re able to join it. But take a look at the website again, it’s free to do that. Look at all the things that we offer, all the inclusions. I think everyone will see the value there for sure.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I was just noticing another person going somewhere for a week and it was like 15,000. And I was like, wait, we’re going to Africa, we’re doing all of this great stuff, all the meals are included, it’s over, it’s two week long trip and we’re going on all these game drives. Like this is more than maybe most people would spend on a vacation. But like for a trip of a lifetime it’s very, I thought really well priced. And I went and looked at Nat Geo. I looked at some of the other trips were actually cheaper than those too.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. And I think a lot of people are just looking when you, you first look at it too, you want to make sure you’re comparing apples to Apple. So, you know, we encourage you to go out there and shop and look at other companies because I know you’ll come back and you’ll see our value. A lot of them are just maybe doing similar game drives that we’re doing, but they’re not including like Cape Town in it and we are, which is huge. Again, you might not be a city person, but you’re gonna love Cape Town. Not just the city itself, the drives around there, going to, to see the penguins and to go up into the area where the, the vineyards are, it’s abso stunning. So there’s a lot to it. So I encourage everybody to take a look and you’ll again see the value and all the different experiences you’ll have

Stephanie Hansen:

on this trip and the vibes. Because I’ll be there on the first trip, hopefully I’ll get to overlap with you on the second trip. I don’t want to make any promises we can’t keep, but I feel good that I’ll see you at least once and then we can like talk about all the stuff that we saw when we get back. So it’s going to be just great vibes.

Michael Kenney:

Exactly. And I already know the majority of the people that from previous trips that have already booked the second departure. So if you’re thinking about it, I’m looking at the name list. There’s some really good people on this, on this trip. So you’re going to have fun. You’ll have a great guides throughout. So it’s yes, they won’t have you incurred on the trip, which is sad, but I think at the same time you’re really going to love, if you’re going for this experience, you’re absolutely going to love it for sure. And we encourage.

Send an email to us. Give me a call. I’d be happy to talk to you about the trip itself. But again, having just a few cabins left, I know this one will sell out too. So if you’re on the fence again, give me a call, send me an email. I’d be happy to get you on it because this will be our Last one for 2027, so we’d love to have anybody else join.

Stephanie Hansen:

I’ll put all that information in the podcast release. Also, it pays to be traveler with us because we have a pretty good list now of people that are repeat travelers and I think that says a lot about you as someone coordinating these trips. I think it says a lot about me as someone that is fun to go on these trips with, like we have someone that’s coming up on, this will be their fourth trip with us. They’re, they’re high end experiences, they’re fun. We don’t take ourselves too seriously. We have a good time. The pacing is right. If you need to peel off because you need a day to just relax, you can usually do that at the different places.

It really, I, I feel like while we’re leading a trip, we also understand it’s your trip, not ours. So if you need to do, you know, like, I remember when we did a cooking class, Lori standing up on the bus and saying, well, who wants to do that? And everyone went except for her. And then Kurt went with her, so she wasn’t alone. But again, if the cooking class isn’t your jam, then you can find some way to do something else. So just to see a good time?

Michael Kenney:

No, it is if this is your vacation. But I honestly think everything that’s in this itinerary, you’re going to want to, to join in. And again, this is a relaxed pace too. But sometimes we have some earlier game drives to, to go see the animals that are out there early in the morning, which you want to do. But then we’ll usually have the afternoon free that you can go into your plunge pool, sit by one of the beautiful trees and have having a cocktail or something like that. So it’s really relaxed as well and you have time to take it in and I think that’s really important. Sometimes everything’s just go, go, go and see how much you can see and do. I mean, we are, we’re going, but we still have that time to sit back and relax.

And that’s what’s really fun about even being on the ship. Second, because we’re moving around and, and popping into small little bays and seeing when animals come up through these savannahs. It’s stunning. You’re like, you’re in the comfort of a beautiful boat and you’re going up and there’s, you know, elephants coming down to water, which I loved, or the hippos just down below you. We go fishing one time or a couple times, whatever we want to do. And just the wildlife around you. And it’s like, oh, I’m not in a Minnesota northern lake right now. It’s, it’s pretty spectacular.

Michael Kenney:

So, Kurt, no swimming off the boat, please. Unlike Kariba with, with knowing, uh, there’s a tiger fish in there. There’s these world famous fish that people like to fish for, the sharp teeth, but it’s more so you got to watch out for those hippos. Of course.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Are there crocodiles?

Michael Kenney:

Yes, there are. So, yes, there’s the crocodiles and the hippos in there. So don’t go in the water.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Michael Kenney:

But it’s fun to be on our big boat, so it’s, it’s safe and you get up really up close to everything, which is super cool.

Stephanie Hansen:

All right, well, I’m looking forward to it, Michael. Again, I’ll put all the information in the podcast notes here. Thanks for joining us and I’ll see you. Well, I won’t see you tomorrow because I’m leaving for Turkey a few days early because I like to get there and get fresh before you guys all arrive so that I have a personality. But I’ll see you in a couple days in Turkey.

Michael Kenney:

That sounds great. Thanks so much, Stephanie.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay, bye. Bye.

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Welcome to "Dishing with Stephanie's Dish," the show where we dive into the stories of people passionate about food, family traditions, and the recipes that connect us all. I'm your host, Stephanie Hansen, and today, I'm thrilled to sit down with cookbook author Sarah Peterson, whose new book,https://amzn.to/41hpxtKDish and Tell: Recipes from the Heart,celebrates the beauty of vintage family recipes and the memories shared around the table.

Dish and Tell: Recipes from the Heart highlights celebrated dishes from Peterson’s recipe box—and collects stories from other passionate home cooks who opened their kitchens to share their own tried-and-true recipes. Peterson takes readers along as she visits, cooks, and bakes with friends old and new to present a smorgasbord of family favorites. She serves up stories about the people behind the dishes and offers special tips and tricks from the keepers of these recipes.

Whether you're an avid home cook, a lover of kitchen nostalgia, or just here for some culinary inspiration, get ready to hear heartfelt stories, tips on cookbook writing, and a delicious conversation that will leave you hungry for more!

Original Episode Transcript Follows:Stephanie Hansen [00:00:02]:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish podcast, where we talk to people in the food space who are as obsessed about food as we are. And today we’re talking to the cookbook author Sarah Peterson. She is the author of Dish and Tell Recipes from the Heart. I’m going to hold up her book so that you guys can see it. It looks so cute. It’s pink. Sarah, I am really excited to talk to you because I don’t normally get to know people sort of along the whole journey of them writing a book and then seeing it released into the world. But that did happen with you and I.

Sarah Peterson [00:00:37]:

Yes, it did. We’ve known each other a little while, or at least I’ve known you. I’ve followed your career, and so it’s been really great to have you to consult with a little bit, and you’ve really been a mentor to me throughout this process.

Stephanie Hansen [00:00:50]:

Well, and I think for you, coming from the PR world, which was where your background was, and then taking it into a cookbook, I’m seeing so many, like, similarities of how you’re approaching things, and I think it’s just super smart, and I can’t wait to talk to you. So can you just give the viewer, the listener, a little bit of backstory about the book and why you wrote it and why it’s special to you?

Sarah Peterson [00:01:17]:

Yes.

Stephanie Hansen [00:01:18]:

So.

Sarah Peterson [00:01:18]:

So about five years ago, maybe more, I started thinking about what I wanted to do with my career. I’d been in PR a long time, telling other people’s stories, writing in the voice of other people. I wanted to do something of my own. I had this love of everything vintage. I’m very nostalgic. I love any opportunity to, like, go back to my grandma’s kitchens in my mind and, like, imagine them in their homes. And so this idea started brewing about, you know, what if I blogged about family recipes and shared some of these handwritten recipe cards, recipe boxes, my love of vintage. So I started with Instagram first, and I was posting a little bit, and then I.

Sarah Peterson [00:02:00]:

That kind of evolved into a blog, and that just really grew and grew, and it was just not my own family’s recipes, but other people’s families, too. Like, I started to just talk to my friends and my neighbors and ask them what are the recipes in their families that I’ve been handing down through the generations that are really close, you know, to their hearts, and started to share those stories on the blog and then thought, well, this could be a book. A book is daunting as you know, to write, but I had some encouragement from my dad and some other people and just pitched it to the Historical Society, and I’m just so grateful that they decided to publish it.

Stephanie Hansen [00:02:37]:

And what we’re seeing in terms of trends for cookbooks is cookbooks that are AI proof, In other words, cookbooks that have a real narrative point of view on a story. And this book seems like it is exactly that and more. Did you feel uncomfortable or were you nervous about, like, being the keeper, the seed keeper, as it were, or the storykeeper of these stories and how you would translate them into an actual book?

Sarah Peterson [00:03:07]:

Yes. You mean for, like, other families? Yeah, absolutely. And I think what gave me maybe a little bit of confidence is that something that I had done in my career as a PR person and in one particular project for a client, I was tasked with shining the spotlight on small independent restaurants and the special role that they play in their communities. And so I had this chance to really interview them and tell their stories and talk about how they were making a difference in their communities. And so I was thinking about what I wanted to do with recipes and family stories, kind of drawing on that past experience of the storytelling, the type of storytelling I had done for restaurants and, like, small restaurant owners. And I think that helped give me some confidence. I think just seeing the difference it makes in someone’s life, too, when they see a story printed about them. And I also love to shine the spotlight on, like, the underdogs.

Sarah Peterson [00:04:03]:

And I feel like home cooks don’t get a lot of time in the sun, you know, So I wanted to do that. But, yeah, I do think there’s a lot of responsibility you carry when you’re telling somebody else’s story. And it’s not something I take lightly. So when I approach a story, I really, you know, lean on my journalistic background. I have a degree in journalism, try to get all the facts straight, run things by people, do fact checking, that kind of thing, too.

Stephanie Hansen [00:04:33]:

So you assembled all these stories and put them into a book along with your own family stories. And how has the book been received? Because it’s really beautiful. It’s super charming. There’s lots of photos, recipe cards. It’s very stylized in a sweet way.

Sarah Peterson [00:04:51]:

Thank you. I think it’s been received really well. It’s fun to see. Like, I’ve done a couple of events where people come up and they’re just like, oh, this book is just so sweet. It reminds me of my grandma, and I can’t wait to go look through her recipe box. That’s like, the biggest compliment I can get. The Star Tribune editor, Nicole, she said she’s the editor of Taste. She said it was like opening the book is like getting a big hug.

Sarah Peterson [00:05:15]:

And I think that’s just so sweet, too. Like, I really wanted people to, of course, love the recipes and the stories, but I think, like, the imagery of vintage dishes, of recipe boxes, of grandmas and aprons, I mean, that’s just like, so me. And I love all that, and I’m happy that other people seem to really love that as well.

Stephanie Hansen [00:05:34]:

I know it’s hard to answer this question so soon after having the book come out, but this really does feel like it could continue on and be a series and continue to live on in your Instagram. Could even be like, audio, you know, version, or you could do television things with it because there’s so much historical narrative in there. Has that occurred to you at all?

Sarah Peterson [00:06:00]:

Not so much yet. I mean, I’m trying to figure that all out now. Like, what do I want to do next? And I think, like, I would love to do more storytelling, more sharing of recipes, maybe more on my sub stack and my Instagram. But yeah, I mean, it could, there could be future editions of the book. But that’s just so ambitious for me right now. Just kind of in the thick of it. Maybe I’ll have to tap you for some more knowledge later on. But I mean, I do have, like, in talking to these families that I interviewed for the book, other stories would come up that they’re, you know, other recipes.

Sarah Peterson [00:06:34]:

And certainly people that I’ve been meeting, doing events are telling me about their recipes. I had this woman come to see me at a book event at Kowalski’s last weekend, and she brought her family cookbook that she had made, you know, just something that she had pieced together but was sharing with her family. And so it was really sweet, and I love seeing that, too. And I think, you know, sharing some of the recipes that other people share with me at events, but also talking about how they’re recording their family recipes. Like, I think, if anything, I’d love to be an inspiration for other people or give people an inspiration to collect those recipes and show some of the formats that other families are using to share those with with their extended family.

Stephanie Hansen [00:07:15]:

As we talk about the nuts and bolts of making a cookbook, what was the hardest part for you in putting this book together?

Sarah Peterson [00:07:25]:

I think it was. It seemed so massive in the beginning, like, the organization of a cookbook. I’ve learned a lot in the process and, like, Have a rockin spreadsheet now. But that was very daunting in the beginning. Then I got into the thick of it, and I think toward the end, like, the editing. Oh, my gosh, that was really something because you don’t know exactly when it’s going to hit. Like, when are you going to have to look through this whole thing? Like, after. Even before it was in layout, like, just getting the manuscript and after the editor had done a first pass, and then you have to reread it all again, and you just have to, like, carve out a bunch of time and just get into it.

Sarah Peterson [00:08:07]:

And I thought that was really hard. It reminded me of being back in college when you’re cramming for a final.

Stephanie Hansen [00:08:11]:

Yeah.

Sarah Peterson [00:08:13]:

So I didn’t, like, love that. But, I mean, it’s just part of the process.

Stephanie Hansen [00:08:18]:

Yeah. Because the manuscript comes back and you don’t know when. And then all of a sudden, like, your entire life is put on hold for however long it takes you to get through it.

Sarah Peterson [00:08:25]:

And for me, it was like a summer weekend. Like, oh, okay. I guess I’m gonna just be doing this for the next two weekend. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen [00:08:33]:

How did you feel about the photographing of the book? Because that can be a challenging part that stops people.

Sarah Peterson [00:08:40]:

I’m glad you asked about that because as you know, we have the same publisher. And it’s really like, they were so great. They’re like, sarah, just take photos like you’re, you know, doing on your Instagram. These will be great. We’ll make it work. Well, yes, but I just was, like, feeling I’m not a food stylist. You know, I do my thing and I take pictures in the moment when I’m making food, but I’m like, I don’t know if these are cookbook worthy. And I do everything on my iPhone.

Sarah Peterson [00:09:08]:

I’m not gonna get a fancy camera. So as I got further along the process, pretty late in the process, I’m like, I just need some help, because I want somebody to help me get a really pretty shot for the COVID Help me shoot some of the things. Like, meat is so hard to take a pretty picture.

Stephanie Hansen [00:09:24]:

Yeah, for sure.

Sarah Peterson [00:09:25]:

Meatball. Or, you know, like, just. Oh. I was just really struggling, and I listened to your podcast and I know that you interviewed Rachel White of Set the Table Photography, who happens to be a food stylist as well. And I’d been following her on Instagram and really liked her style. So I reached out to her after hearing her on your podcast, and we met, and I just told her what I was doing. I said, I don’t have a lot of money, but here’s a few shots that I’d like to get. And she also took some headshots of me.

Sarah Peterson [00:09:52]:

But she came to my house for a few days, and we just banged out as much as we could. Not even like three full days. Like, two and a half days. I just was, like, cooking up a storm. We did headshots and lifestyle shots one morning, and then just a bunch of recipes and then, like, a bunch. A brunch spread one day, too.

Stephanie Hansen [00:10:10]:

So what that translated to me when looking at the book was we’ll call them, like, some hero shots.

Sarah Peterson [00:10:16]:

Exactly.

Stephanie Hansen [00:10:18]:

That were. They were. It was funny because I couldn’t necessarily tell when I was looking at the book, but I could see, like, just from the perspective of the stylized nature of the background and the more complete shot. Like, let’s see if I can just find one that I can hold up.

Sarah Peterson [00:10:44]:

Yeah, A lot of the shots in, you know, the chapter intros.

Stephanie Hansen [00:10:49]:

Yeah, it’s like, that one maybe.

Sarah Peterson [00:10:52]:

Yes, yes.

Stephanie Hansen [00:10:53]:

And I thought maybe that one.

Sarah Peterson [00:10:56]:

I took that one, actually. But I think just having Rachel, like, in. In the end, too, I was like, well, people are gonna. Is this gonna be weird to have a mix of really good professional pictures than my pictures? And then it was really important for me to have pictures that the families submitted, so candids and snapshots. And I know feature a lot of those in your cookbook, too. And I think those are so important, and I think they all came together. I hope so. Yeah, I did that one, too.

Stephanie Hansen [00:11:28]:

Oh, see, look at.

Sarah Peterson [00:11:30]:

I can’t even tell if you look in the back. We credit which pages are definitely her pictures. But, you know, she did the COVID

Stephanie Hansen [00:11:37]:

shot, and that’s this one. Yeah. No, I. I knew you had worked with her, but when I looked through the book, I thought I could tell, but I couldn’t, so. Good for you.

Sarah Peterson [00:11:49]:

She helped me do the. The Dutch pancake.

Stephanie Hansen [00:11:52]:

Yep. Those are so hard to get because they deflate.

Sarah Peterson [00:11:58]:

I know. And the day that we did it, I just made the most gigantic one ever in my largest lodge skillet. And it worked. And, like, screaming in excitement that it came out so beautiful. And then it did deflate, but we made it look pretty with berries and powder. Powdered sugar. I did that one, too. That one.

Sarah Peterson [00:12:16]:

Handballs. But, like, she did these really pretty pictures of my recipe cards and recipe boxes, and she took pictures of me with my grandma’s dishes. So she got a lot of shots, too, that obviously I Couldn’t take because I was in them. Yeah, it was really nice. And I’ve been using her photos like crazy and all of my Instagram and marketing efforts, so I’m just so grateful that I had her. I wish I could have hired her for the whole thing. But I think, too, when you’re making a cookbook, I don’t know about you, but I like to eat what I make. And I’m, like, photographing it in the moment.

Stephanie Hansen [00:12:49]:

Yes.

Sarah Peterson [00:12:50]:

And I do like those kind of pictures too, so I’m really glad I have a mix.

Stephanie Hansen [00:12:54]:

I. I feel like, for me, if I’m not living that life or I’m not like, that is the life I live. So the intention is that it’s happening in real time. I’m. I felt like this. Making this thing today, when I made it, this is what it looked like. This is how I ate it. This is how it.

Stephanie Hansen [00:13:14]:

The dishes I served it in. To me, that’s what makes this food life fun. So when it becomes like a complete chore or a list or a job, that’s when I find I don’t like it as much.

Sarah Peterson [00:13:26]:

Right. And I do think that people resonate to real life pictures.

Stephanie Hansen [00:13:31]:

Yeah. We’re lucky in that way, because if we would have been doing this during the fussy Instagram, first coming alive and everything being blown out white, beautiful shots,

Sarah Peterson [00:13:42]:

I don’t know that we have to do that. And especially with AI now, you want things to look a little imperfect.

Stephanie Hansen [00:13:47]:

Tell me about how you scheduled your book tour and how you worked with your publishing company, because I feel like you’re approaching it very methodically from a publicist standpoint, and I think that’s helpful for cookbook writers.

Sarah Peterson [00:14:05]:

Well, I’m glad it appears so, because that is. That’s been like a big surprise, like, book tour. Okay. I. You know, I didn’t really know what to expect, and I’ve seen everything you’ve done, and you’ve done a phenomenal job. And I’m like, if I can do a fraction of what Stephanie does, that would be great. So really, right now, I’m in the thick of it. The book came out in February, but it was a little bit slow in getting events because I had a vacation and some other things planned.

Sarah Peterson [00:14:33]:

But then now, coming into April, I’ve got a lot more going on, and I’ve just been fielding requests that have come through the publisher or through my website, and I haven’t said no to a lot. Although, know, like, there’s things that come up, like speaking Opportunities. And I don’t know that I’m there yet to do that kind of thing. So I’m just doing a mix of like, traditional book signings. The independent bookstores I absolutely love. I had a really sweet event in New at a bookstore called Luca. It was like, seriously, the set of the Gilmore Girls. It was so cute.

Sarah Peterson [00:15:10]:

That bookstore is amazing. And they had addition tell event where we talked about this. Like, how fun would it be to have people bring a recipe from their recipe box and we do a little recipe card swap. So we did that. And then they also made some of the dishes from the cookbook and we had like a potluck style event. So that was really sweet. So I think, you know, some of these events that come up are people that request them. Yeah, I do put on my PR hat and I’m like, well, how can we make this extra special and make it more an experience? And so I’ve been bringing.

Sarah Peterson [00:15:42]:

I’ve been hauling my grandma’s china teacups to all these events filled with flowers. I gave you one places I use doilies made by my Aunt Jeannie. I bring pictures of the women in my family that I call the keepers that have been the keepers of our food traditions. So I sort of have this traveling roadshow.

Stephanie Hansen [00:16:02]:

A kid. Yeah.

Sarah Peterson [00:16:04]:

But in terms of the events that I’m doing, I’ve just. Whatever comes my way, I’m kind of doing. I am not like seeking out things. I will say, though I do love the independent bookstores are really fun. And then this week I have an event at Fickers up in Duluth, which is my home. You know, Duluth and Cloquet. So that will be really exciting to do something like that where they’re making the food and I just, you know, come in and speak and mingle with people. That will be.

Sarah Peterson [00:16:32]:

That will be nice.

Stephanie Hansen [00:16:34]:

We have an or we have a Taste Buds with Stephanie episode coming up with you. I know Michelle is editing it right now, and it is where we made sandwich loaf. And you have the recipe and the techniques for sandwich loaf in your book. Can you just talk a little bit about why sandwich loaf is important to you?

Sarah Peterson [00:16:57]:

I would love to talk about sandwich loaf.

Stephanie Hansen [00:17:00]:

It was the funnest thing I’ve done.

Sarah Peterson [00:17:03]:

Sandwich loaf is something that I just. I just love it so much. And for people who don’t know what it is, it’s basically a layered sandwich that comes in a loaf. It looks really pretty, like almost like a wedding cake. And then you slice it so it’s like layers. It’s Bread with layers of tuna salad, egg salad, chicken salad, pimento cheese, whatever you want to put on the inside. And then it’s all encased in cream cheese and decorated with. You can decorate it with, like, piped cream cheese that’s tinted so it truly does look like a pretty cake.

Sarah Peterson [00:17:35]:

Or. My friend Tony and I like to do it with vegetables and herbs and just make little flowers and whimsical butterflies. So my passion for sandwich loaf started when I was probably growing up. It just showed up at, like, wedding showers, baby showers, graduations. And I always loved it. I mean, I loved how it tasted, and it was just kind of enamored by how charming it is. And then my friend Tony had it at her wedding, and we just. We.

Sarah Peterson [00:18:01]:

We share a bond over sandwich loaf. And part of it. She has an aunt that works at the Super One Deli up in Cloquet and made these things. And that’s how we’d get them growing up. They’re always ordered from the deli. They didn’t make them. But Tony and I were like, we should. We should make one of these.

Sarah Peterson [00:18:17]:

You know, we can buy the. It’s called Pullman bread. It’s that long, rectangular bread. She’s like, we can just order that from the deli and make our own sandwich loaf. And wouldn’t this be fun? And I think we were probably influenced by Instagram seeing other kinds of decorated cakes.

Stephanie Hansen [00:18:33]:

Yeah.

Sarah Peterson [00:18:33]:

Pasture breads, where people are doing, like, fun, fun scenes. So we just started doing it a few years ago around Mother’s Day. We’ve done it at her house. We’ve done it at my house, my parents house. And we’d share it with ladies in our life that we know would appreciate it. And we got such a great response. People that know sandwich loaf love it, and they’re just so excited to get it. So we make, like, the big ones, then we’d cut them up and do little smaller ones, decorate them really cute and hand them out around town.

Stephanie Hansen [00:19:03]:

It was so fun to make that with you. I had seen sandwich loaf, but when Michelle, my producer, was like, hey, she wants to make a sandwich loaf. I was like, yeah, we can make whatever she wants to make. And then when I got there, I was like, oh, yeah, like, this is how we do it. And just making the pimento cheese and, you know, do you put tuna in? Because some people feel weird about fish. And then we had this. Do you have a salmon loaf? Like, do you have egg salad? Just such a blast making that. And I can’t wait for us to show people what that’s like on television.

Stephanie Hansen [00:19:40]:

This weekend it’ll air Saturday at 8.30am it will launch on Instagram or, excuse me, it will launch on YouTube on Thursday and then it lives into perpetuity. And I’m sure they’ll air it again. So it’s nicely timed for your book. Thank goodness.

Sarah Peterson [00:19:55]:

And it’s sandwich loaf season, I mean, in my world. So I’ll be up in Duluth around Mother’s Day and my friend Tony and I are planning to get together and make some. And it’s just such a pretty spring thing and I think it would be great if people started serving them again at showers.

Stephanie Hansen [00:20:08]:

Yes, yes.

Sarah Peterson [00:20:11]:

Beautiful food item. And it’s, it’s tasty. You can customize it how you want. You know, you can make more than one if somebody doesn’t like tuna or if you want to add some other salad. Yeah, I think it’s going to be great. And it would be a fun group activity, wouldn’t it, with your girlfriends?

Stephanie Hansen [00:20:27]:

Like. Yes.

Sarah Peterson [00:20:28]:

I love it because we just have fun decorating them together.

Stephanie Hansen [00:20:31]:

I also think it’s a good multi generational thing, like for Mother’s Day where, you know, you can have the kids, the grandkids, really, everyone can sort of get involved if they’re, you know, I guess they have to be 10 or older probably. Unless they’re. I mean, you see these little kids on Instagram making gourmet meals now. I don’t know how that works. That wasn’t.

Sarah Peterson [00:20:51]:

Well, you could make a peanut butter and jelly one. Like you could really modify the ingredients. I mean, that’s not the way that I grew up with it, but it’d be fun to see what people do with it.

Stephanie Hansen [00:21:00]:

Yeah. And you could think you could frost it with peanut butter. Like that’d be pretty easy to do, actually.

Sarah Peterson [00:21:04]:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen [00:21:05]:

Or just frosting in and of itself and then have like a, a sweet with jam and kind of. That would be really good too. Or like a cream cheese buttercream for sure.

Sarah Peterson [00:21:17]:

And I just think it’s so pretty when you cut into it too. Like it’s pretty on its own when it’s decorated in its loaf form. But when you slice into it, the picture of, you know, just how it looks when, when it’s on the plate I think is really pretty.

Stephanie Hansen [00:21:32]:

I’m just gonna see if I can find it here so I can show it.

Sarah Peterson [00:21:35]:

Yeah, here’s the. It looks kind of funny on the camera there.

Stephanie Hansen [00:21:39]:

Can you see it pull back a little bit? Yes, now I can. Yep. It looks great.

Sarah Peterson [00:21:45]:

That’s like in its full, complete form. And then here it is sliced. And I like it on vintage luncheon plates that, you know, the kind our grandmas and our moms used years ago. And they have the little indentation for the coffee mug.

Stephanie Hansen [00:22:01]:

We just had Easter yesterday and my mother in law is 94, I think, and came for Easter dinner. And over the years she keeps giving me, you know, dishes and things that she’s offloading, as it were, but I kept. I’ve kept stuff. And we used to have Easter all the time in Nebraska with her at her house there. So I made the Easter spread. I used her tablecloth, I used her silverware forks. I used these little paper mache bunnies that she used to put on the table that I still kept. And it was so sweet to see her come to the house yesterday and sit down and like recognize all this stuff that we had when Ellie was little and we would have Easter with her.

Stephanie Hansen [00:22:46]:

It was. I was so glad I kept it all. You know, it’s kind of a pain, but I’m so glad I did.

Sarah Peterson [00:22:51]:

Oh, and you’ll have that to enjoy for years. And what a great memory. I mean, and I bet Dolores was just tickled.

Stephanie Hansen [00:22:56]:

She was, she really, she. She really was. And the funny thing, I said, well, you know, that’s your tablecloth. And she said, well, where are the napkins? And I didn’t really remember that there were napkins because they were in a closet and probably in a box and I didn’t unearth them. So I was like, oh, I have the napkins. I just didn’t get them out. Like, you know, where are the napkins? All right, so we are going to feature you on the Taste Buds episode. It’s a Dec.

Stephanie Hansen [00:23:22]:

Decades episode where we had to think of recipes that were important to us like through the decades. So sandwich loaf was one. Then I did a Chicken Marbella, which I don’t know if you did any dinner parties in the 80s, but if you did, that was what everybody made into like probably the early 90s too.

Sarah Peterson [00:23:44]:

I can’t wait to try that. I have not had that dish.

Stephanie Hansen [00:23:47]:

It is the simplest thing to make and it has a power punch of flavor. I always double the sauce just because I like it. Really saucy, but it sounds gross. And my producer was like, oh, wait, we’re putting prunes in this. I was like, yeah, you just gotta trust me. It’s gonna be really great. And then by the time it’s all done, you have this really delicious Sauce and the cooked chicken and you can just throw it in one big pan or one big pot and then serve it right from the pot. So it’s an easy dinner party.

Sarah Peterson [00:24:19]:

Dinner party, yeah. That sounds really good.

Stephanie Hansen [00:24:22]:

Do you have any, like 80s or 90s dishes that you. Not actual dishes, but things to make that you’re like, oh, I. If I had to do a decades theme, what would you make?

Sarah Peterson [00:24:32]:

You know, let’s see. So the 80s, I wasn’t cooking too much, but I love.

Stephanie Hansen [00:24:37]:

Because you’re so much younger than me.

Sarah Peterson [00:24:38]:

I’m not so much younger, but I was in that time of life where it was like high school. School.

Stephanie Hansen [00:24:43]:

Yep.

Sarah Peterson [00:24:44]:

Not doing a lot of entertaining or anything. I can’t think of. I don’t know if this is. I mean, we love Dorito. The taco salad with Doritos. I don’t know if that’s 80s or 90s, but like.

Stephanie Hansen [00:24:56]:

No, it’s. I think it’s 90s. And we actually talked about taco salads when we were trying to think about, like, what would be we. I couldn’t think of anything of the 90s. And then my producer Michelle, like came up with a bunch of stuff. And taco salad was actually also mud pie.

Sarah Peterson [00:25:14]:

Yes.

Stephanie Hansen [00:25:15]:

So we ended up making a mud pie bar that was actually a recipe that my stepmom had. But, like, people were eating a lot of mud pie apparently in the 90s. And chocolate lava cakes.

Sarah Peterson [00:25:27]:

Oh my gosh. And chocolate lava cakes. Are they. They’re back. I mean, I see they are back. My daughter Lucy is a big fan, so anytime we’re out to eat, she’s got to get a chocolate lava cake.

Stephanie Hansen [00:25:36]:

Have you ever made one?

Sarah Peterson [00:25:38]:

No, have you?

Stephanie Hansen [00:25:39]:

I have attempted it like three different times and it never works. I always get a delicious brownie but like getting that molten lava piece in the middle have not succeeded yet. So I didn’t want to do that on camera because I was like, oh, I just don’t know.

Sarah Peterson [00:25:56]:

So, yeah, in 90s dishes. I was just thinking of one thing that my mom has made throughout my life and is in the cookbook are Italian shells. So the big pasta shells. Yes, we ate them a lot in the 90s. We probably ate them definitely after. But just the big pasta shells loaded with Italian sausage, some torn up bread, a, you know, an egg base in there and some pasta sauce and cheese and then smothered with more sauce and cheese. That was like at every big occasion in my life.

Stephanie Hansen [00:26:28]:

I love it. So delicious. Well, Sarah, congratulations on the book. I’m happy to be on this journey with you, and I’m real proud of you. I think the book is beautiful, and I’m glad you’re having so much success. And I can’t wait till people see us make sandwich loaf on taste buds this weekend.

Sarah Peterson [00:26:46]:

Well, thank you. And I just have to thank you for everything, Stephanie. It’s been so fun to watch your career and how you’ve evolved and. And done all these amazing things with your radio show, with your books, all your books and the TV show, too. It’s been really fun to follow along.

Stephanie Hansen [00:27:01]:

Thanks. I. I had people that helped me along the way, so I feel like it’s my obligation, but also my joy to help other people because, you know, I. There are things about being a freelance creator and freelance writer and cookbook writer that no one can answer for you unless they’ve done it. And, you know that first person that told you, like, how much they made and how long it took and what to expect for food costs and, like, those were really valuable lessons that I was so glad that I learned and that people gave me the real deal because I think that is part of, you know, some people write books for fame and fortune. Some people write them to document a historical time in their life or something that’s important to them. And then some people just do it because they think it’s fun. But all of it and getting, you know, the historical background about what it’s going to cost and how long it’s going to take, it’s important information, I think, to learn before you set out on the journey.

Sarah Peterson [00:28:01]:

Right. And you’re doing such a great service to find that information and share it with the world. So.

Stephanie Hansen [00:28:07]:

Yeah. And I think your story about the food stylist, too, like, people, you don’t have to have a food stylist. Do the whole book. Like, you could have 10 shots or hero shots or the beginning of chapter shots. That’s a great way to do.

Sarah Peterson [00:28:19]:

And just like spending that time with Rachel, too, for those two or three days, like, I just learned so much. So I’ve taken some of that experience and been able to piggyback on that and some of the photography and things that I’m doing now.

Stephanie Hansen [00:28:33]:

Yeah, she’s really good at it. So I’m glad that Rachel was a resource for you. Her podcast, you can find it in the archives, too, of Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, because it’s in there and it’s a good one to listen to. So, Sarah, thanks for being with me today. Congratulations on the book. It is Dish and Tell. And where can people get the book and how do you want them to

Sarah Peterson [00:28:53]:

follow you so they can find the book at, you know, online through the major retailers. And then if you’re in the Twin Cities, it’s at, like, Kowalski’s and a lot of independent bookstores. It’s even at Barnes and Noble. I went by and visited it this weekend at the Barnes and Noble in Roseville. I’ve been going around and seeing my book at different places. It’s so exciting, and people can follow me. My website is vintagedishandtel.com. my social media handles are the same.

Sarah Peterson [00:29:19]:

Vintage, Dish and Tell. And then I have a sub stack too, which, if you can’t find, just go to my website and you’ll be able to link to it.

Stephanie Hansen [00:29:26]:

Has anyone told you that when you see your book in the wild, you’re supposed to sign them?

Sarah Peterson [00:29:31]:

No, I’ve thought about that. Do you, like. Do you talk to the bookstore manager or the.

Stephanie Hansen [00:29:38]:

Sometimes I wouldn’t. At a Barnes and Noble, I’d probably just do it. But there’s a real rationale behind it, because booksellers can return books that don’t sell. They can’t return books that are signed.

Sarah Peterson [00:29:50]:

I’m gonna go sign every one I can find.

Stephanie Hansen [00:29:52]:

Yeah, I. Whenever I’m out and about, and if it’s a small store, I will tell them, okay. But if I see it, I’m. I’ll just. I go to the bookseller and I’m like, hey, I’m here and my book is here. Do you mind if I sign a couple? A lot of them have stickers and they’ll put, you know, signed edition. But if I’m at, like, Barnes and Noble, I just sit there with my pen and sign them all.

Sarah Peterson [00:30:11]:

Oh, that’s great. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen [00:30:12]:

So make sure you sign them.

Sarah Peterson [00:30:13]:

Thanks for that. Hot tip.

Stephanie Hansen [00:30:14]:

Yeah, hot tip. Hot tip. All right, Sarah, thanks for joining me today.

Sarah Peterson [00:30:18]:

Thank you.

Stephanie Hansen [00:30:18]:

Okay, bye. Bye.

Sarah Peterson [00:30:20]:

Bye.

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Hello, everybody. Welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space, cookbook writers, people that are obsessed with food. And I’m really delighted today to speak with Tim Niver. He is the host of the Niver Niverland podcast and also a restaurateur in St. Paul, our fine capital city. He owns Mochis, also is a friend. And I was just noticing in my calendar, we recorded about a year ago today.

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Tim Niver:

Yeah, well, I know we recorded before. I don’t remember the, the date, but I’m glad to, I’m glad to be back on. It’s, it’s, it’s a good time to talk about things.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And we. I’m going to release this podcast on Friday, so it’ll be timely. I moving it up in my schedule because we have been under extreme stress as restaurateurs and people in the hospitality industry basically for the last two months. But really increasingly in the last two weeks as ICE agents, 3,000 of them have started roaming the streets of Both Minneapolis and St. Paul and our surrounding suburbs and towns, asking people for papers, going into restaurants, stopping cars on the road, doing traffic enforcement type stops, going to people’s homes, taking children as little as 2 and 5 years old. And unfortunately, these actions have resulted in the shooting of Renee Good also over the weekend on Saturday, the shooting of Alex Pretty. And it is so interesting.

As this podcast was being released, a relief fund for Minnesota restaurants was launched by Stephanie March with support from The Minneapolis Foundation. You can give here:

Stephanie Hansen:

I was on the air live with my radio partner Stephanie March on Saturday morning when the second shooting happened, which technically is the third shooting because there was another one where someone was shot in the leg in their house, defending themselves with a shovel and a broom. What I just am so wanting people to hear from Minneapolis and St. Paul and Minnesota in general is that the actions that are happening here, A, are not legal, B, are not law enforcement, and C, are creating so much harm to a community that has been trying to recover for the last five years since the COVID pandemic. And I’m so. It’s always restaurants. We’re the canary in the coal mine. Right.

Tim Niver:

I’m, I’m listening. And it’s hard to refute anything you said. Number one, there’s a, restaurants are involved in particular in moments of social change, were involved in helping support, care for the community at large. As a product of them supporting and caring for us at large, it’s a debt that we want to owe to the community. But there’s a lot of pressure to act and, and it’s not always an easy decision because we’re business people in this. In this state, business feels insignificant altogether. And then to continue to participate appropriately on whatever way you can is, I think, ultimately where we all need to be. Whatever we can do, whatever you feel like you want to do, that should be enough for people.

But there’s a lot of expectation.

Stephanie Hansen:

It’s fascinating, too, because when I say that restaurants are the canary in the coal mine, I feel like when these situations happen or civil unrest happens or starts to unfold, we see it in the restaurant community because it is communal spaces. But then we also lean on the restaurateurs and people to provide food and community. And there’s so much expectation not only for you to, hey, run your business and serve me my pizza in a timely fashion, but can you also donate and feed my whole community and show up? And it’s so interesting because you guys do. Yes, you do. You can.

Tim Niver:

We do it despite being able to.

Stephanie Hansen:

Because you are hospitalitarians in your heart. Like, yeah, that is why you stay in this business. It is a level of service and leadership.

Tim Niver:

Yeah, yeah, it’s. I just think it’s a matter of care, which is what we innately provide. And when there’s moments where care is especially needed. You’ve seen this community react in full. The restaurant community and the community at large, like, we’ve all reacted in full. We’ve been there for each other. It’s inspiring.

Stephanie Hansen:

It is inspiring. And it’s ongoing.

Tim Niver:

Yeah, it’s ongoing. It’s an economic occupation as well. Completely affects and dampens any kind of feelings of joy. The. The way you might want to express yourself on a birthday feels different. The way you want to express yourself on an anniversary might feel different. Things that we celebrate, that we, as restaurateurs, try to preserve. Now we’re changing our language to It’s really nice to have you here. Even the things we say prompting, you know, it’s. It’s not. It’s discompassionate, perhaps, to ask somebody how they’re doing right now. So. So we’re talking to each other in a whole new language based on how. How things feel.

It’s pervasive on all levels. But we have to persist, right? We have to, as a business, even though it feels insignificant in the moment, you have to persist. You have to do the things through an, you know, austerity or what have you to understand clearly what you’re able to support and give. And then on the Inside, you have to make the decision about folks who need every single hour of work that they get per week to stay afloat. Many restaurants are the same way. And so, you know, this kind of doubles down on a time that is not normally busy. It’s a huge multiplier effect.

Stephanie Hansen:

It’s like 20 below in January and has been for about a week in the Twin Cities with another potential week ahead.

Tim Niver:

Right. And, you know, it does keep people in the suburbs. That interaction between the inner parts of the city, it becomes a more of a bubble. So, you know, and understanding security. It’s true. Like, I get it. You know, these are all real things. Overall, it’s a big pill to swallow.

Stephanie Hansen:

And the weight is getting really heavy. The reason I think you’re uniquely qualified to speak to me today is I want people to know that in 2025, you were the James Beard semifinalist for outstanding hospitality, and you are known in our community for providing great food, great service, but your whole being and your whole approach to care and hospitality within the confines of our restaurant’s four walls is what you’ve really done your entire career. And you’ve mentioned that that looks like it’s changed. It has to change. It has to be modernized in light of the times and the moments that we find ourselves in.

Tim Niver:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we began to lean more, lead more with compassion after George Floyd and Covid, trying to understand, you know, there’s also a lot of strengthened worker rights. A lot of things have been changing over the years, and in good fashion. But also, I guess the thing that we. We try to do is just stay with it. We’ve been through some of these similar feelings before. They’re triggering.

Stephanie Hansen:

And thank you for saying that, because I. I do think that is a uniquely Minnesota thing in that five years ago, when the George Floyd murder happened, and, well, the lockdowns were first, and then the George Floyd murder. Like, when I hear a helicopter, I feel very anxious. I feel like a trauma of what is happening. I’m heightened. I’m scared. I’m looking around. I’m wondering if there’s some breaking news.

It’s hard to describe that to people who haven’t lived under that complete fear of what’s next.

Tim Niver:

Yeah. And in many parts of the world, they live like that every day.

Stephanie Hansen:

And also true. Yeah. And. Oh, gosh.

Tim Niver:

But we certainly do gain a perspective that nobody else could have. It also provided ample levels of or already set types of organizations in times of need. People had done this before.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And it mobilized quick. How Fast people.

Tim Niver:

Well, you know, we’re trying to. We’re all trying to protect somebody here. We’re all trying to protect somebody. So I really feel like having had experience like that, you have a new generation of restaurateurs and thinkers like Rectangle Pizza. They lead with love, but they’ll fight for it. Just such heart and fearlessness. That’s. That’s fearlessness.

I don’t contain that. I don’t contain that. Thank God they do. Thank God they do.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Tim Niver:

And they’re thrust into it too, like being where they are.

Stephanie Hansen:

To give some context, Wrecktangle Pizza put out a mutual aid fund and I think they raised at last count, over a hundred thousand dollars of. Oh, over two.

Tim Niver:

I believe it’s over two through selling.

Stephanie Hansen:

Pizzas and collecting donations. And that money is going back into their communities. And we’ve seen a lot of that. These mutual aid funds that people have just started on their own.

Tim Niver:

Then they were visited the next, the following day after they did that by Ice2, perhaps recognizing that they were part of some resistance by helping take care of people and, you know, it just. How is that imaginable?

Stephanie Hansen:

What do you. I. It’s hard to describe the. It’s hard to describe the impact that the diverse population and immigrant population has had on the restaurant business as a whole. I think some people believe that everyone who works in a restaurant that is a black or a brown person is somehow an illegal person. And it’s ignorant and I’m not sure people fully know, but there is this sort of idea too, like, well, these owners. These owners are employing these people without papers and we’re just getting the bad guys. Can.

You’ve been in this industry a long time. This industry is made up of a lot of people.

Tim Niver:

Yeah. You know, honestly, you hire somebody, you have to do the paperwork. That’s the only way they can get paid. And I am not an ID expert. I do not run this through some sort of machine that tells me exactly where the documents are. We’ve. We’ve been very, very fortunate just for a matter of retention that we’ve done so little hiring. It made moochies in particular, but in general that, you know, it’s just part of the first day packet, but you have to take care of it.

Tim Niver:

It’s. It’s immensely important to the infrastructure of a business to be organized in such a way and still mistakes can be made. But for me in particular, it’s never a question. It’s like, you have to have this to work. It’s so easy. Either you do or you don’t.

And when you pay someone and give them a paycheck, there is an employment tax that’s attached to that paycheck.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Their own. And then we match. Yeah, we. No, nobody gets around that. There’s no way for them not to pay taxes unless somebody’s doing something illegal. But everybody’s got to do the same paperwork.

They get the same i9 w4 and w2 at the end of the year. You know, it’s all stated. That doesn’t make somebody legal either. But in terms of when you hire somebody, you go through and you. You do what you can to do everything right. And hopefully they stay for a long time, whoever they are. Yeah, but we are made up of the community at large. Any city is going to be made up of a cast of characters and we certainly don’t want them to be the same character over and over.

The diversity speaks loudly to the depth of the culture that you exist in. So we benefit.

Stephanie Hansen:

It’s also when we look at the diversity of the food culture that’s offered in the Twin Cities. I mean, you’re making Italian food.

Tim Niver:

Italian American. Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Someone else is making Somali food, Ethiopian food, Vietnamese food. The irony is we have all these diverse cultures all coming together over this common tradition of breaking bread, of communally spending time in community together at our tables.

Tim Niver:

Yes.

Stephanie Hansen:

And it just saddens me that this is, this schism that is going to happen. It happens in restaurants first and then we’re going to be the last ones to be able to pick up the pieces when all these creeps leave. And all of this is, you know, the bad guys and the murderers and the rapists and whatever excuse you want to use for this complete brutality that’s happening to our community, then the restaurateurs will again pick it up. Food costs will probably increase. I would imagine none of these things that are happening are inexpensive. We have a somewhat broken food system nationally. You know, when you think about.

Tim Niver:

It’s a rough year of tariffs. It was a rough year. Understanding the more in price increases, insurance costs, health care costs, whatever you’re involved with, you know, I’m. My little business. You would be so shocked to know what we pay for insurance a year.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I just wrote my thousand dollar check for the month. Yeah, I’m a freelance person. No support.

Tim Niver:

A lot of money.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, it is.

Tim Niver:

And those things have been ongoing. And then this obviously again is, like I said, a multiplying factor.

Stephanie Hansen:

So how do you keep. I mean, we’ve painted a Pretty gloomy picture. So how do you keep waking up every day and coming into your restaurant and finding joy? Because I think a couple of months in and two weeks of really acute persecution here, people are feeling really beleaguered.

Tim Niver:

Yeah, Weighted, I guess what I’d say. And I. And I haven’t necessarily found it totally in myself, but we talk about preserving joy and pieces of it. You shouldn’t think of joy being some all encompassing kind of a thing that just washes over you completely. You really have to parse it out and be deliberate with how you preserve your joy. Right now, that may be in a restaurant, I think I’m just starting to get my feet kind of how I feel personally. But the last few days kind of forced myself into tons of conversation. Even though that doesn’t always feel comfortable.

I feel like staying at home. So I think that conversation, there’s. Maybe you’re commiserating or whatever, but there is a unity when you don’t hold up, when you don’t sacrifice joy because of it feels wrong. In this time, I do believe, you know, my message to anybody would be is, and I am intent on this is just where you see joy, like stop and engage with it and. Or force it and make sure that you’re trying anyway. Get out, go where you want to go. It doesn’t have to be Moochie’s. It doesn’t.

That that’s not it, you know, but that. That’s part of it too, you know, hey, we’re giving a lot of money. Other, not just restaurants, people are giving a lot of money and resource to. To feeding people or staying safe or doing what they need to do right now. I mean, I understand dining out may not be your priority, but preserving a little bit of joy, if you could consider that. I think, I think there’s a little tiny pot of gold. Right.

Stephanie Hansen:

I thought I would start out this year talking about, like, food trends, because I love to talk about food trends. It’s like one of my favorite things to talk about. But, you know, that feels a little like we’re not doing that today. How are your colleagues feeling? Like you have a unique ability because you have people on your podcast. You are behind the scenes in the hospitality business. How are your colleagues doing?

Tim Niver:

Beleaguered. Beleaguered. Same boat. You know, the tides are out. It’s not in saying that is unattractive. You know, I get it. Like saying. Saying that things are hard is kind of an unattractive thing or unhospitable thing.

But we’re all feeling it. It’s. It’s kind of hard. Anyway, I’m empathic, so, like, I’m just, like, sponging energy, and I. It’s. It’s really hard to, like, you know, continue to hear it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. I. I also think something that has come to me over the years of working in this business is we think about artists and musicians as these very creative beings. Right. And their art is their song or their poem or their story. And what I have learned in this business is that my fellow hospitalitarity people are also artists. It is the food that they are putting on the plate. It is the care with which they are putting there.

It is the farmer who’s growing his heirloom seed to get that tomato to bring to you to make that perfect. Yeah. Salad. And artists as a class tend to be fairly sensitive people. They have a lot of empathy, a lot of emotional capacity, and it is just crushing sometimes. Similar happening. Yeah.

Tim Niver:

Yeah. You know, going back just a bit toward the last piece about Joy, a story. I got reminded of something after I said my bit last week. Earlier last week, like, Tuesday, before anything happened with Alex Preddy, I was at the door. A father and son walked in the door, and I’m at the host stand, and I see that they have a birthday designation. And I’m like, hey, you know, welcome in. I see one of you is having a birthday today. And they both kind of stopped in their tracks.

And I said, hey, hey. I didn’t. You know, I don’t mean to get, you know, too personal. Whatever. I just see it listed here, and they’re like, well, my wife, his mother, she died 30 days ago, and today’s her birthday. Oh, that’s why we have to be here.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, that’s.

Tim Niver:

That’s what we have to preserve, and that’s what people should. Should still celebrate.

Stephanie Hansen:

Sorry.

Tim Niver:

Thanks.

Stephanie Hansen:

No, it’s. It. It’s interesting because I’m one of those weirdos that gets together with friends in January and does tarot card readings.

Tim Niver:

Oh, I love it.

Stephanie Hansen:

And my, you know, you can pick, like, career adventure. And I picked joy as my, like, category, and I’ve been feeling kind of joyless. And you really hit something on the head when you talked about joy, which is something I’m working on, but it’s recent, so I’m not doing well at it yet. But it’s hard that, you know, I really. I was working on a project that wrapped up at the end of the year, and I pushed myself so hard. By the time I got done, I Just was an empty, depleted cup. I had nothing left. And I had this trip planned, and I was gonna go on this trip, and I was gonna rest and read, and I was gonna get my joy back and re.

Energize. And on that trip, all this thing, these things were happening at home, and I haven’t been sleeping, and it’s been just constant cortisol rushing.

Tim Niver:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

And I didn’t get that joy in that way that I felt. And. And what my tarot cards said was exactly what you said, which is. It’s not a huge wave. It’s the moments within the wave. And you have to intentionally seek them out, look for them, create opportunities for them to happen.

Tim Niver:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

And for me, as a person who loves restaurants, it does happen a lot in restaurants.

Tim Niver:

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s not a manufactured feeling, you know, either. When you come in here, there’s a genuine desire to uphold whatever you’re there to be doing in whatever form. You know, whether it’s a funeral or, you know, an anniversary or a birth. You know, we want to be able. When you walk in the door, we want to be able to make sure we’re taken care of. Wherever you are, be compassionate to that moment.

And that’s why memories are made in restaurants. It’s where people get together, you hear other voices, and you don’t have to listen to them. You know, it’s a din. It kind of makes you feel comfortable, like there’s an outside world that’s not affecting you. And there’s a lot of beauty in finding a place that gives you that sort of peace for a little while and visiting it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Oh, and I just. I think about Town Talk Diner, which was one of your original spots, and so many people still talk about that place and Nick Kosevich and you, and just this idea of what that place meant to so many people. And you’ve had a number of places like that because then you had Saint Dinette. And I’m trying to think of the. I’m trying. A total blank of your place.

Tim Niver:

Strip club up on the hill.

Stephanie Hansen:

Thank you.

Tim Niver:

Strip club. It’s all good. It’s a lot of years.

Stephanie Hansen:

It’s a lot of years, like, so many of these places that have meant so much to people as we move forward, because we’re really in it right now. We’re sort of stuck. What would you like to see moving forward? And how can people listening to this podcast be supportive of restaurants in general if you’re their spokesperson?

Tim Niver:

Yeah, if I was a spokesperson and. And I. And I kind of am sometimes, you know, I don’t try not to speak for the whole industry at large, but I would just say, you know, mind, mind what you are spending on and what you aren’t spending on and a business is doing the same. And I’m just looking for moments of unity between everybody that we can to kind of find some sort of momentum back into pushing towards joy. But for business folks right now, we understand we have a little bit of more time to consider that this might be happening. So to those business folks, I’d say consider your austerity. Now. What keeps you there for your community? What keeps you there for your employees? What keeps you there for the right reasons? But also, you know, folks, I know that they’re in general acting so generously and putting emotion on things, but I would say, you know, to preserve that joy, make a reservation somewhere and go out and eat, do whatever you can.

Tim Niver:

It doesn’t have to be a full blown meal. It could be a short visit. It could be go in and have a drink and hug the person you really like there. But I think you have to kind of get everybody working in the space that yes, there may be some time here for operators, but also for folks that are out there feeling a lot of different ways that there is a lot to be said for visiting and being out in your community and it’s not a feelful place all the time. And restaurants and businesses, we need you to continue to visit. It’s really that important. And that’s all there is. You know, it’s a business that’s in service of others and without them it’s hard to continue.

Stephanie Hansen:

And it feels so much better to, you know, after ruminating in my house for days. Then today I went to two coffee shops and I sat down with a friend who’s turns out starting a business. She’s an immigrant herself and scared and trying to figure out what the way forward is. Just spending time hearing her, hearing her concerns.

Tim Niver:

Yes.

Stephanie Hansen:

Introducing her to some new people that maybe she hadn’t thought about that might be resources. Yes, I just.

Tim Niver:

Expanding your community and, and yeah, expanding your community and bringing people in, bringing people in, you know, and we have.

Stephanie Hansen:

So many young people like, I mean, we’ve been around the block. We’re sage and oh no, the young.

Tim Niver:

The youngs are, are really strong here. You can see it in their dedication to their craft. You can see it in the dedication to their employees. You can see it in their dedication. In whatever way they were able to show solidarity during a day of Strike. It’s. It’s really insanely cool. Group of people were hoping for, rooting for desirous of their success.

Tim Niver:

I mean, that’s what we want.

Stephanie Hansen:

We do, because we had the, you know, the Phil Roberts and we had our. Everyone’s mentor, Tim McKee. But we have this new group of really committed and passionate folks, and it’s nice to be able to share wisdom with them, but also to create and be absorbed in their energy of how they want to move this industry forward. It’s pretty neat.

Tim Niver:

During these times. During these times. Well, you know, you. You said it. And I feel that this industry has been nothing but supportive, if not led the way in a lot of ways. I’m proud to be a part of it. I would like to do just what I do, but I understand that times are different and we all need to stand up and in the way that we need to stand up, but we do need to stand up and show ourselves for everyone. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

If all you can muster is to go to a new business and have a cup of coffee, then do that. If you have the time or the capacity to be a protester, do that. Like there’s nothing. Everyone showing up in different ways. I just want people to hear that you show up. And even if you didn’t vote for who I voted for or you voted for someone and that wasn’t what you thought you got, it’s past that.

Tim Niver:

We’re just humanity, man.

Stephanie Hansen:

This is.

Tim Niver:

This is humanity. This is treating each other appropriately.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. That’s it.

Tim Niver:

Like basic stuff. And then respecting our rights.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And agreed. Well, I think, Tim, I’m gonna wrap it up. I really. I love spending time with you today.

Tim Niver:

Thanks.

Stephanie Hansen:

Farther away from the restaurant now, so I don’t get in as often, but.

Tim Niver:

You know, we’re here. Just we’re here anyway, you know, we’re here.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Tim Niver:

You feel us? You feel us?

Stephanie Hansen:

I do. And I really appreciate the leadership, also the respect that you have garnished in this community and the leadership that you provide for other restaurant tours and just.

Tim Niver:

Trying to earn it. I’ll keep trying to earn it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, you do. Every day. And just the ability to be able to hear your story and to help people understand what it feels like on the ground as a small business person who’s just trying to keep their people employed, their family fed, and are moving. Yeah, exactly. Thanks, Tim.

Tim Niver:

Yeah, my pleasure. Always.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay, we’ll talk to you soon.

Tim Niver:

Thank you.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay, bye. Bye. Bye.

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Growing up as a Canadian-born Vietnamese Chinese American, Kat Lieu sought comfort in the flavors of her youth, like taro, matcha and black sesame. But she struggled to find a home for herself as a third-culture baker in American bakeries, online, or in cookbooks. In the auspiciously titled 108 Asian Cookies, Lieu honors the varied and rich tapestry of Asian cultures and ingredients

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Original Episode Transcript Follows:

Stephanie Hansen:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space, a lot of cookbook authors, manufacturers, and people who are doing cool things with food. And Ashley Russell came across my desk, and she has a cookbook that’s called “What’s Cooking Good Looking”. And I was first of all, captured by the illustrations in the book you are working on or have. They were very. How do I describe them? They were like tattoos. They were adorable, and they are original art by @sadpuppytattoo.

When Ashley describes the banana bread of her grandmas, she was generous enough to share the recipe here.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Tell me about the book and how you decided to illustrate it the way you did. And then I wanted to talk to you specifically about self publishing a book, because I think a lot of people think about it, but they’re not sure how to do it. So I just wanted to get your feedback.

Ashley Russell:

Totally. So I started this book inspired by my grandma. She passed away in 2024, summer of 2024. And it was almost immediate, was like, we have to have all the family has to have our recipes. And so she had a really cute little vintage recipe card box, and the whole process just sort of unfolded over the past year and a half. It is definitely a lot of Southern cooking. She’s from Texas, but lived the past 30 years up in northern Washington. And her and my mom and her siblings lived all over the country.

So there’s just a little bit of everything in there from, like, recipes she got from neighbors or things that she learned from different parts of the country. So it’s a really fun, like, eclectic mix of American cooking. And it’s just so much her. Like, there’s sugar and everything, and it’s just. I’m so happy to have all of the family favorites in one place. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Did you work with members of the family, or was it primarily. Did it fall on you to compile everything?

Ashley Russell:

I definitely compiled everything, but my family was there every step of the way. Like, my grandma wrote in cursive, and I couldn’t always read it.

Stephanie Hansen:

A lot of our grandmas wrote in cursive, and it is hard to read.

Ashley Russell:

It’s so hard to read. And so we started this text group, and I would be like, does anyone know what this says? And then also things like vegetable oil or sweet milk or, you know, polio olio. Exactly. What is that?

Stephanie Hansen:

It’s shortening. But, I mean, nobody knew.

Ashley Russell:

Nobody knew. And so it was a lot of just, like, you know, there were puzzles to it, and it was funny, and it brought us together and it kept us talking about her. And then, in addition to the community that I reached out to here in Portland, all My family members helped recipe test because it’s like they remembered how it was supposed to taste. So it was almost like, you know, I think that this is missing this because she didn’t write everything down. Like, a lot of things lived in her head.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Did you ever done this before or anything like this? Do you. What’s your background?

Ashley Russell:

No. So I worked for a decade in costume design. I worked on a lot of small budget indie film and tv. And so I think I’m used to like, okay, we have this big hurdle of a project ahead. But I’ve never, I’ve never written a book. I’ve never written a cookbook. And the whole process was such a journey, but it, it was all so much fun, I think, because I was like learning and uncovering things about my family along the way. Yeah.

Ashley Russell:

So.

Stephanie Hansen:

Well, the creative process too, I think, is. Know you talk about being a costume designer. I didn’t really think about writing a cookbook or recipes or being a recipe developer as a creative endeavor until I kind of started doing it more. And then I was like, oh, yeah, this does require creativity. And this is where that, where I scratch that itch.

Ashley Russell:

Yes, totally. I agree with that. It is super creative. And I never realized that either. I have a few cookbooks, but in this process, it made me realize, like, what little magical creative books they are and how much, you know, there’s people’s dreams and they nourish us and they’re little windows into different parts of history and people’s lives and they’re just pretty cool. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

And people talk about like, I’m, I’m in the process of. I just released a book in September, so I’m out at bookstores and grocery stores and selling the book everywhere. And a lot of people are like, oh, you know, nobody really needs cookbooks anymore. And I was like, well, actually, you can always look up a recipe on the Internet that’s there, but the narrative, the piece of how that fits into their life, the memory that that recipe brings or that combination of spices that transports you to a place that is what is unique about a cookbook. It’s. It’s so much more than just the recipe. And if you’re not jazzed by any of that, then, yeah, it’s probably not for you.

Ashley Russell:

Totally. Yes. Like, you have to be inspired by it. Right. And like, I don’t know, I get pretty annoyed with recipes online. There’s a ton of pop ups and your phone, you know, has the auto timer and it has to face ID every two minutes. I. It’s just when you have it in a cookbook, it’s almost like the record version of like a Spotify song.

I don’t know, like, you sure? Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Like, and you can get a song but you don’t have it in the context of all the songs in the record and that the artist had. Yeah, it’s very similar, actually.

Ashley Russell:

Totally. And like, people love listening to records and collecting records and I really just think it’s, it’s, it’s a similar. Comes from a similar place.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Okay. So your book, what’s Cooking Good Looking? It is a spiral bound, which I thought was an interesting choice that I want to ask you about. And it’s also got these illustrations. Did you illustrate it or did someone else? They’re real cute. They’re like tattooed inspired and they’re kind of jazzy and it kind of. It had like a hipster core vibe to it.

Ashley Russell:

Yes. So my boyfriend’s brother’s sister, so more or less my sister in law. I’ve known her for six years now. She’s a tattoo artist and she does a lot of florals and she did like a food flash at one point. And I’ve always loved her art. And when I was first starting the book, I was in Canva and I was like, oh, clip art’s cute. And I was like, you know, I don’t know if I would ever release a book with clip art in it, you know, And I wasn’t sold on doing photography. I knew how specific and it had to be.

Ashley Russell:

Like, people have nailed food photography. If I was going to do it, I wanted to make sure it rocked. And so I asked her one day, I was like, would you want to illustrate this book? And she was like, oh my God, yes. And her tattoos are in black and white already. So it kind of, it transferred pretty easily into print form. And so I was able to use all of her tattoo library, like things she had already drawn. And then she drew things specifically for the book as well. And I just think it looks awesome.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, it really does. It’s real sweet. And what about the choice of spiral bound? And can you talk, can you make that be the introduction of talking about like how you decided to self publish and did you go out and try to find agents or did you go right to self publishing?

Ashley Russell:

Sure. So I in the past couple years have been really inspired by Rizzo prints and graphic novels and a lot of small press publishing and super inspired by vintage cookbooks. And a lot of them are spiral bound or they’re notebook bound. And it’s. It’s kind of like, it gives it this retro feel, and it’s kind of an homage to all of, like, the women’s groups and church groups that did cookbooks over the decades. But I also think it’s super functional in the kitchen. And I had a graphic design friend mention to me that she loves when a spiral bound is a color that totally offsets the book. So my book is, like, very black and white and yellow, and then it has this bright red spiral binding.

And I just think it makes it pop. Like, it’s. It’s fun and practical. So as far as self publishing. So when I started this, it was really just a project for my family. It was really just, you know, I wanted them to have all the recipes. I. I wasn’t even sure if I was going to print it.

And as the process unfolded more, I realized more and more that I wanted to make this a book. And I wanted to put my heart in this book. And I wanted to share who Wanda and our family is with the world. And it really was just like a flower slowly blooming. Like, every week would be like, oh, I have to put the ingredients in the order of the method. Oh, you have to do this. Oh, people like, you know, like, you want everything in a recipe on one page. You don’t want to have to, like, go back and forth.

And it became this really fun project puzzle for me to be like, maybe I can create a cookbook. And so I didn’t reach out to agents or anything, because I think the main important part was for this book to be about my grandma and come from me. And I was worried that having an agent or a publisher might dilute that a little bit.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, they’d have feedback or input or change things. Sure.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah. So I was able to work with a lot of friends, family, and get a lot of feedback throughout the entire process. I hired an editor, and so there was that constructive criticism, but I didn’t feel like the voice or the vision was changing for profit, per se. And so self publishing is what I stuck with. And I think that in order for me to print this book the way I wanted to and for it to look the way it does, I don’t know if I could have convinced a publisher to get on board with that.

Stephanie Hansen:

So then you make that decision and you’ve got your book assembled or your PDF pages, essentially. Did you tell me about, like, did you go out and just Google, like, how to self publish? Did you figure out, like, how to print on Demand was there color considerations. Kind of walk me through that process a little bit.

Ashley Russell:

Sure. So I did start looking up print on demand and I started Googling, you know, how to write a cookbook. I listened to Maggie Green’s podcast Cookbook Love, like, religiously. I got books on the subject, and I really just created, like, it was my own research project. And I was learning as I went. What turned me away from doing, like, on demand printing or online publishing was that I really wanted it to be spiral bound. I knew that from the beginning almost. And I really wanted to do a mixture of Rizzo printing.

Ashley Russell:

And I wanted the paper. I just wanted everything to be really high quality and feel like her note cards, feel like her recipe cards. And I didn’t think I would get that with online printing. So I went and talked with a few print shops here in Portland, Oregon, and Brown Printing, like, got the project right away. And I’ve been working with them for the past several months to get it printed.

Stephanie Hansen:

Have you. Have you printed, like, X amount and you’re kind of selling stock as you go?

Ashley Russell:

Yeah, So I, you know, budget has been a concern throughout this whole process. Like, anyone who’s made a cookbook knows it gets very expensive between recipe testing. And I did end up doing photography. I did it myself. All of those things really add up. And so I did an initial print run of 300, which is almost gone at this point. I just picked it up in the beginning of the month. And Brown’s doing another run of.

Ashley Russell:

Of, 300 for the 1st of December so I can have more for the holidays.

Stephanie Hansen:

And then do you package them up and ship them when people make an order? Can you talk a little bit about that? Because people don’t think about that. But you have to buy, like, special envelopes. You have to go to the post office. There is a category for media mail that makes it a little cheaper, but it’s still. It’s a process.

Ashley Russell:

It is a process. Like, every bit of this has been such a process. And so, yeah, my. My limit, I had about 180 orders to ship out when I got all the books from recipe testers. Order, pre-orders, family, you know, you name it. And our whole. Our whole living room and kitchen was just, like, stacked with boxes and you.

Stephanie Hansen:

And they’re bigger than you think.

Ashley Russell:

Like, they’re bigger than you think and they’re heavy.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. And a box of like, 15 books is, like, a big box. And they’re everywhere.

Ashley Russell:

They’re everywhere. Yeah. So, you know, it’s kind of like if you’re an Etsy shop owner, you know, kind of our pain, I guess. But, you know, you’re doing. You’re the manual labor and you’re the author and you’re the publisher, you know, so you’re doing everything. And I lugged them all down to the UPS and USPS and shipped them off. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Where do you go from here with it? Like, you gotta sell through your next 300, obviously. Did this, like, create a pathway for you, or is this where you’ll end this journey and just one and done. And it was great.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah. So when I first started, I had over 300 recipes from the family. And I reached out to my first editor contact and they were like, whoa, that’s a lot of recipes. They’re like, books are usually like 75 to 150. And I was like, oh. And like now seeing this printed and it’s 260 pages, like, I get it. But at the time, I was like, I just wanted to have everything. And so I have at least one other book of Wanda’s on the horizon.

But for now, I’m really just trying to put myself in. What if I had a publisher? What if I had an agent? What would they be doing? So it’s a lot. Yeah, it’s a lot of reaching out to retail stores, seeing if I can get an interview on a podcast, trying to put my book out there in ways that I know of and seeing where it lands. I have. There’s about seven stores in Portland that are carrying the book right now, and they’re all stores I really love. And that’s super exciting.

Stephanie Hansen:

They carry it on consignment or do you sell them to them outright?

Ashley Russell:

It depends. So a couple are wholesale and a couple are consignment. Wholesale obviously works better for us, but I’m just happy to have the book out there. I think it’s a good time of year. You know, she made all these dishes for Thanksgiving and. And Christmas, so it’s the. It’s the time to have it in your kitchen.

Stephanie Hansen:

Do you. Can you talk about, like, how much you make per book?

Ashley Russell:

Sure. So if I’m talking just printing costs to do the 300 with the brown printing and the riso printing I did by hand at outlet PDX, we’re looking at about $20 a book. And I have the book priced at 38. So because I’m not splitting this with any publisher or agent, that means technically $20 profit goes back into my pocket. But at this point, we’re still paying off all the production costs, and it also doesn’t include that dollar amount. Doesn’t include, like, my labor. So when you really figure it out, it’s probably. Or food.

When you really figure out the numbers. This first round probably cost me about $50 a book to make, you know, and then the hope is, over the years, if continuing to sell copies here and there, you break even, or maybe you make a few dollars.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, it’s. It is kind of like that. As you get, like, past Wanda’s story, do you see this being a journey you’ll stay on, or is it really just. I’m curious if it ignited something in you because you seem like a creative person.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah. Like, I’ve always wanted to be a writer, and it’s been pretty daunting. My grandma always encouraged me to be a writer. This feels like that first step. I also like the idea. I’ve heard a cookbook is, like, the best business card, you know, And I think that’s, like, a great way to look at it, too. It’s something that I’ve made that I can say, you know, I wrote this, I’ve made this. I’d like to do this project.

Stephanie Hansen:

And fascinating, because that is for. For me personally, I wanted to have agency in the cooking space, and I wasn’t. And I wasn’t a writer, so I was like, how am I going to get that? I wanted to have a television show. I wanted to do more podcasting, specifically about food. I had a radio show about food, but I needed to have more autonomy, and that's how I started.

Ashley Russell:

Totally. That makes sense. Did you. Do you feel like that helped achieve some of the dreams you had?

Stephanie Hansen:

Oh, for sure. I have a TV show now, and I wouldn’t have had the TV show if I hadn’t have written the cookbook, I don’t think.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Because even though I’m a home chef or a home cook and not a chef at all, actually having the book gives you some credibility of why this person’s gonna invest in you and put you on television station. 88 markets. I don’t think they would have done that if I wouldn’t have had the book.

Ashley Russell:

Totally. And honestly, like, I think being a home chef, you almost write a better cookbook because you can anticipate what other home chefs are going to be confused by or what they need written down.

Stephanie Hansen:

Well. And a lot of the best chefs, who I have much admiration and respect for, their books are really challenging or technical and. And that’s great. Like, maybe that’s who they’re writing them for. But some of my favorite chefs, I get their books and I keep them because I love the photography and I just admire so much of the skills and what they bring to the party. But very few of them I actually ever cooked out of.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah, they’re like these beautiful aspirations.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, they’re aspirational books, for sure.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Can you talk a little bit about Wanda? Just your grandma? Like, you just have a real spirit about you that must come from her. And I’m just curious why she was so meaningful to you outside of just being your grandma.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah, totally. So I was raised by my mom. It was just me and my mom and I would spend a lot of time with my grandparents. I think when you’re set up in that sort of one parent system, I was either going with my mom everywhere or I was spending summers at my grandparents, and those summers at my grandparents. I, I feel like as an adult, I’m sort of chasing that feeling, you know, of, of being, you know.

Stephanie Hansen:

Really? Yeah. Oh, that’s so touching.

Ashley Russell:

Yeah. I mean, it’s true. Whether it’s cooking in the kitchen or laughing with my grandpa. You know, my grandma taught me how to sew, and later on in life, I worked in costumes and I used to bake with her, and now I’m making this cookbook. She meant a lot to me. And I know, I know both of them meant so much to our whole family that I don’t want, I don’t want us to lose that, and I don’t want anyone that comes next in our family to not know about it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Yeah. What a beautiful sentiment. I, I just the I, the what you said, just, I’ve been chasing that feeling is really. I wrote my book for very similar reasons. You know, my mom had died early of breast cancer, and I wanted to document family recipes. Yeah, just the way you said that was really beautiful, so. Oh, that’s so nice.

Ashley Russell:

I, I, whether or not we’re aware of it, that we’re, we’re kind of doing that right. You know, where’s your happy place? What makes you, what brings you happiness? And those memories really do as, as I’m sure other memories for other people do for them.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. All right. Well, I have loved hearing your story. I knew right away when the book came across my desk and you reached out to me directly, I was like, oh, yeah, I do want to talk to her. I want to figure out, like, what inspired her to take this on. Because it is a labor of love, you. Even if, I mean, I don’t I’ve not read a statistic, but like most cookbooks and most cookbook authors are not getting rich by writing cookbooks. They’re using it to parlayed into other things.

So it’s usually not actually a money making endeavor. It’s more a creative process and something that you do as a labor of love. And I think a lot of people that love cookbooks may be listening, you know, have wanted to do this. So I wanted to like, really document, like, how did you do it and what did you think about and how did you decide to put it together? When you put your list of recipes together, was it obvious what was going to make it?

Ashley Russell:

Yeah, you know, it started with what are the family favorites? What, what do we have to have? And then it was with, you know, what turned out really well in recipe testing. And from there, like, you know, the, the, the baking section’s over half the book. Yeah. And then it was sort of trying to round out the other sections of the book. Yeah. And they were recipes that could stand the test of time and that people would still want to make and also that my, my grandma would enjoy another favorites. Oh, yeah. So I mean, her banana bread is like, I knew I wanted to start the book with her banana bread and end it with sweet tea.

That’s my grandma to the core. And then in between, you know, there’s so many great home cooked meals, home cooked desserts. She had a famous chocolate pie, famous pecan pie. Her Italian cream cake is to die for. It’s like a coconut cake. Um, my aunt Angie, her oldest daughter, said that people used to request that she make that. So that was fun to learn and to put in the book.

Stephanie Hansen:

And now you know how to make all the things too, or a lot of the things.

Ashley Russell:

Yes. My family’s like, well, I guess you’re cooking for Thanksgiving now because you know all of her recipes.

Stephanie Hansen:

Oh, that’s so great. I really enjoyed talking to you. It is Ashley Russell. The book is I wrote the what’s Cooking Good Looking? Sorry. It is a really beautiful, fun, different way to approach this topic of cookbooks. And I was really. I’m impressed by what you did and I know your grandma would be, she would love it. She’d be real proud of you.

And it’s really nice to talk with you and share your story. I’ll put a link to the book in the podcast notes and put that all together and hopefully we’ll help you sell through your next 300. Ashley.

Ashley Russell:

Thank you, Stephanie. I really appreciate it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, it was great. To hear your story and to just spend time with you. Good luck.

Ashley Russell:

Thanks. Have a good day.

Stephanie Hansen:

All right. Bye.

Ashley Russell:

Bye.

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Original Episode Transcript Follows

Stephanie:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk about food. A lot of times we talk to cookbook authors and kind of understand their process and what they’re doing. Well, I’m just noticing my hair is real bedhead, but it is what it is. Friends, in this particular episode, I want to talk to my friend Michael Kenney. He is from Defined Destinations. He owns his own business, and it’s a travel company. And. And Michael and I met about three years ago now, and we have done a number of trips together, and we are planning our April trip, which is going to be to Turkey, and we have a lot of different cities that we’re going to visit.

And one of the things that I’ve heard from a lot of people is they all know we’re going to Turkey and they want to hear about it, and they’re excited to know about the destination, but they’re nervous about signing up for the trip. So said to Michael, let’s just talk. Let’s do a podcast where we give people an idea of what to expect, where we’re going, what kind of things we’re going to see. My friend Todd Walker, coincidentally has. He’s in Turkey right now. And he said. And he’s been. He travels all over.

He works for the Viking Cruise Lines, doing trips for them and helping to write about them and help people experience them. He sent me a text, and he said, turkey is in his top three places he’s ever been. He’s just super hot on it. He’s like, you are totally going at the exact right time. Because he’s like, people are just starting to learn about it, but there’s so many cool things. He said it’s a trip like nothing has ever experienced before. So, Michael, I’m excited to talk to you about it. And people ask me like, well, why did you pick turkey? And I was like, why not? I have always.

I met a guy 20 years ago and in Paris that was from Turkey, and first of all, he was gorgeous, so let’s just go there. But second of all, he really, like, he just was telling me about where he lived and what Turkey was like and what the food was like. And he talked to me about the spice Trail and kind of how people came in through Istanbul and then crossed over into Italy and into Spain. And it made me feel like, wow, okay. Turkey is this very Mediterranean feeling place with tons of culture, and I’ve always wanted to go there, so I picked it. Michael, why did you allow me to pick Turkey? Knowing that it would be a destination that would be harder to sell for people.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, I think that’s what’s great. And thanks for having me on, Stephanie. It’s always a blast, you know, to travel with you and with your, your listeners. It just, we’ve built some really great bonds with the people, which has been a fun. So even our latest trip to Sicily. What, what a blast. And great people.

Stephanie:

Yes.

Michael Kenney:

But you going back to why we choose this and with Turkey, and that’s what’s great about you. It’s like you’re willing to try some new areas. And a lot of people are like, well, I’ve heard of Turkey. I don’t know much about it. And I think that’s where we both kind of glammed on. Like, let’s go and let’s have this experience. And we’ve been putting group trips together for 27 years and we have some great partners and some Turkish partners, too, that can really open up the, the eyes. I know several people that have been to, to Istanbul and everyone’s heard of Istanbul, like, oh, it’s a top five city on earth for a lot of people.

And you’re probably wondering, well, why? So I encourage you to kind of jump in, look at our website, do a little research on that. But Turkey is so, so much more than that. I. They have absolutely stunning beaches, their food culture, their spices, the seaside communities, the, the Roman ruins. They have so much in different little pockets. So Turkey offers. And I think that’s what maybe gravitated you and I both to it. Just the diversity and still a little of that wonder, like what’s, what’s really, what’s in Turkey.

And I think, you know, we, we talked about a little earlier before the podcast about some of the places, you know, that are kind of overrun with tourists. And definitely Turkey is not there. It will be at some point. So it’s kind of fun to get on maybe the ground level to, to some of these places and not just Istanbul, because it, it is busy, but some of the other places that we’re going to go from Ephesus to Kabukia or Pamuk. There’s so many different places that are on this trip that you’ve never even heard of. So it’s kind of like, well, I haven’t really heard of that. Go, go look at our website. Go do a little research on the Internet and see what.

It’s so amazing. The Europeans, they know of Turkey really, really well because it’s a, it’s a quick flight and they Absolutely love it. I’m in Europe nine times a year and the folks that I talk with over there, they absolutely love it. So it’s kind of like a discovery trip for Americans. And what’s great about our trip that will, it’s fully guided. We have 31 meals included. We have the inner flight inside, Turkey included. So there’s really no out of pocket expense for that.

So you can really sit back and relax and take in the best of Turkey with our local guides. And there’s just so much and I think that’s what’s going to be kind of fun to go discover. This place in our group is going to be no more than 15 people. It’s a small group experience so you can really relax and enjoy that. And I know folks that maybe, well, what’s a group tour? You know, I think you even mentioned that too for some people. Like, well, what do you do? It’s again, we’ve kind of handled everything. We’ve taken care of the hotels, the buses, the cooking class that we’re going to do. I mean, you might want to touch on that later.

But we’ve taken all of that, these best of experiences and put it in one itinerary so you can sit back and relax and know that you’re going to see the best of Turkey.

Stephanie:

I think explaining my husband Kurt’s sort of transformation is good here. My husband is an independent person. He’s owned his own business, he’s a sailor. He would, he, he has no interest really in group travel. Like when I brought it up to him and that I was going to start leading trips, he was like, why would you want to do that? Why would you want to be with people you don’t even know? Like, he is just anti group travel as a rule. And he came on our first trip, he wanted to come with us when we went to Cambodia and we went to Vietnam. He knew that he would never plan a trip to Asia on his own. So he thought, well, I’ll go along on this group travel and I’ll just suck up the group travel part because I get to go to this cool destination.

Well, what happened is he loved it. He liked group travel. He liked meeting new people. He liked not being the person that had to be in charge of making sure that we got our luggage to the room and that we made it to the right flights and that he had to carry all the stuff and all the itinerary. He kind of liked that he wasn’t responsible for all that. And he liked the food, he liked Meeting the people he liked, not having to be in a city he’d never been in and figure out exactly where we were going to eat every single meal. We had flexibility. Obviously, on these trips, we want it to be your trip.

In our Sicily experience, you mentioned a couple times, like, if this doesn’t feel like something you want to do, then don’t do it. Do something else for the day. We can help you orchestrate other things. He really loved the idea that he didn’t have to do everything. And in fact, when we did our cooking class in Sicily, which was amazing, by the way, we learned to make arancini, which they call arancino. We made a thing called a pinella, which was a chickpea pancake that they eat in a sandwich, which was kind of different. But Kurt didn’t want to do the cooking class. He was like, you know what? I think I’m just gonna go walk around the city.

So him and another friend peeled off and, like, that’s the joy of these trips. We plan everything, but if you’re tired or if you just want a day of rest, you can do that too. We really try to make it so that we know it’s your experience. We’re not as interested in you just being forced to come along on things that you’re not interested in. We’re interested in your experience. We want you to have a good time. So if Kurt Johnson can get turned on to group travel, I feel like, seriously, anyone can.

Michael Kenney:

No, that’s. That’s well said. I would have never guessed that about Kurt initially. You know, and I wouldn’t call him an introvert by any means, but I think we get, you know, a lot of people like that with. With. Kurt. You know, maybe their. Their.

Their husband or their wife drags them on a trip, and they’re like, you know what? This is actually pretty cool, especially for the person that maybe is doing typically all the planning. And it’s stressful. You know, we do all that for you, but you can really, again, sit back and enjoy. You spend a lot of money to go on these trips, and that’s what we want. So we want you to feel like you. You have that. That freedom, too. When we set up our hotels in nice, central locations and safe areas, too, that you can go out and explore, so we encourage you to do that.

But honestly, we feel pretty good that the pace of these trips are designed really well, that you have that flexibility, because we want you. Yes, you’re in a group, even a small group, but we want to make it feel like you’re having these experience with, with a friend or a family member that’s with you too, that you, you feel like you’re, you’re having these little exploring trips, but it’s all kind of put together already for you. But again, we, we have time for you to go exploring, to have these other experiences, which is really, really important. Balance is so important. Over 27 years, I think we’ve really, we focus on that so we know that, that people are comfortable having that free time to explore. But again, having the, the framework of an itinerary with, with experiences. Typically, we might do a city tour in the, in the morning and then have the rest of your day free to have your own exploring. Then maybe for, especially for this trip with the 31 meals that will meet up and have dinner in a place.

And again, they’re all being curated with our local team too, in the area that you’re going to have foods local from the area in great mom PA type of restaurants. So sometimes it’s stressful when you’re trying to figure out where am I going to go eat, what should I do? I want to make sure the dinner is going to be great. We’ve got that taken care of so you can sit back and relax. And again, we know most of you probably have not heard of a lot of these places. Please, we implore you to go and take a look at the itinerary, do a little research, because I guarantee in a few years from now, these are going to be mainstream and you’ll be able to go explore and see these places before they’re overly busy. So take a look at this itinerary.

Stephanie:

I was impressed because when I first was thinking about Turkey, I went on a map and I didn’t realize, like, when I started going to Croatia, I didn’t realize how close Croatia is to Italy. That literally they share a sea and that a lot of Italians use Croatia as their summer vacation spot.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

And I didn’t also realize that Turkey and Italy are very close and that a lot of Europeans, because they’ve got EasyJet there, that’s an Italian airline, they’re going to Turkey like we would be going to Palm Springs. I mean, a lot of Europeans are experiencing Turkey and it’s just not a destination that a lot of Americans are familiar with. But a lot of people are going there and having fun, doing fun things. This. It’s been so fun for me to watch my friend Todd Walker, because he went to Cappadocia, which is a city that we’re going to go to and they have all these fairy houses that are like these stone. They look like dunce caps sort of. They’re these weird structures. And he, like, actually spent the night in one of them.

He did a hot air balloon r there, which is part of our itinerary. If someone wants to add that on, I know Kurt’s going to do that. It’s like he went and he had all this video of it where there’s 140 hot air balloons going up kind of all at once out of this city. It just looks so completely cool. And then the. The huge market. There’s like, the world’s largest market. So all of these trips, I always end up with a group of great women shoppers.

And I’m like, okay, bring an extra bag, ladies, because you’re going to come home with a rug and you’re going to come home with all of these spices. There’s 4,000 stalls in the Grand Market in Istanbul. Do you know that?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, the Grand Bazaar. I didn’t know exactly how many, but, yeah, it’s massive.

Stephanie:

So just that, like, I love getting into a market and just, like, seeing all the different things, feeling all the different spices. In Sicily, we had an opportunity to go to the market, and afterwards we had our. Our local guide that kind of takes you around and shows you where everything is and gives you a sense of maybe what to look for at the market. And then we split up and Kurt and I, he just wanted to drink beer in the market and kind of experience feeling in the market. So we went and got sandwiches. But a bunch of other people, like, shop till they dropped. Like, they had huge shopping bags full of stuff. So if your jam is shopping, great.

If your jam is just sitting and taking in the culture, great. Like, you can also learn more about a city by spending time with the city guides that are with us. They’re always having lunch with us, and we have a bus driver that we get to know in certain trips. It really just. We just got back from Sicily and we had such a great experience. We had such a great trip. It was probably one of my favorite groups because a lot of the folks had traveled with us before, so we really knew each other, too. It’s group travel is really fun.

I’m just. I don’t know, I’m really jazzed about it, and I’m jazzed about Turkey, and I want people to come. If you could describe Ephesus, because that’s a place that I haven’t been before and you have what is that like?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, Ephesus, it was, you know, built by the Romans in the time of Christ, so 2,000 years ago. And it’s. You’re walking through. It’s. It’s unbelievable. It’s not like when you’re at the Roman Coliseum or that area around there that’s actually, it feels like it’s in. More in ruins, if you will. But you’re like in this village, this Roman village that you can think of, the Apostles walk, maybe if you’re, you know, religious.

Mary, Jesus’s mother, has walked. And the. Still, the stone streets are there. You know, a lot of the buildings are in ruins, but the library, the, the whole front facade is still there. It’s, it’s unreal. It feels like you’re just being brought back in time. And there’s truly nothing like Ephesus, which is just right outside of the, the village of Kusadasi, or city in Turkey. But it’s, it’s like the.

If, again, if I could have an analogy, like you’re in Rome, but to another level that it’s, it’s much more, I would say intact. Still in ruins, but intact. But this, this, this village that it’s in hibernation. So walking these streets. And we have these local guides as you touched on too, that kind of can bring everything to, to, to life. So, you know, you’re not looking through your, your book and trying to like, well, what is this? You listen to an audio guide or our, our local guide speaking about that. So you’re learning about the history. But Ephesus is, is.

Is unbelievable. And we’re not going to see. There’s other ruins and more Roman sites and throughout this trip, so you’ll really get, you know, a history. I wouldn’t say a deep dive. They touch on it. So you’re not like, oh, this is so boring. But you even said it’s, it’s a trip like this is great for, for shoppers, if you want to shop. I’m not a shopper.

I like to do what Kurt does. Sit down, maybe have a beer and take it all in and do nothing. Just take in the people walking around, the smells. There’s. There’s nothing like it. And again, I think this trip to Turkey really offers a potpourri of different experiences. So if you’re a foodie, if you’re into photography, to culture, to history, this trip really ticks all the boxes. And I guarantee it, you’ll love it.

You’ll love the trip. But then even at the end you. There’s a great chance you’re going to make lifelong friends on, on a trip like this too. So it’s, it really ticks a box of. Of of experiences. So hopefully April is a great time to go to. The temperatures you can expect, you know, low 70s, you know, 50s, 60s at night. So it’s really comfortable.

Not like in the summer when it’s really busy and it’s busier with the Europeans and the temperatures hotter. This April time is a great time to visit for sure.

Stephanie:

Can you talk a little bit about what the food is like? Like, I have an idea, but I don’t really know. Like, is it Mediterranean? Is it like meat and pomegranates and couscous?

Michael Kenney:

Yep, you’re nailing it right now. No, it. It is like that. So I think I encourage again people to. To look online too, to see what some of these are. But you maybe have heard of, you know, baklava or, you know, kebabs, the lamb, the beef, the chicken. They have, you know, the different kebabs, lots of different spices, ganache, as many, you know, like fried dishes too, but then a lot of cooked on open fires. But I would say, I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s comfort food, like German, you know, in having, you know, some of the staples that you might know, but still something that’s not too odd.

It’s probably more closer to home than maybe some of the French food you would see. But you’ll see a lot of lamb, the beef, I said some of the fried foods, lots of, you know, from your Turkish delights and different things like that. So I think even when we’re walking around in the market, you’ll get that. And then we’ll at our dinners have different meals as well that will infuse some of these different experiences. So it won’t be something completely foreign, but it’ll be. It’ll be comfortable enough that I think you’ll enjoy it, but it definitely be a nice array of different experiences with the food.

Stephanie:

I haven’t told you this, but one of the places, and I don’t know where I’m going to do this, but I am going to find. Have you ever been to a hammam or done the spa experience where like, you lay on like hot marble and it’s sort of like a sauna and you get sweaty and then you like, go into a room and they like brush you with salt and scrubby things and like completely clean you. It’s a Muslim tradition and it’s the most amazing thing I’ve ever done. I did this in Athens and I loved it so much. We went three times while we were in Athens.

Michael Kenney:

Wow.

Stephanie:

Find a spa that does this there. I don’t know in what city or where we are, but I know a local guide can help me when we get there.

Michael Kenney:

Yep.

Stephanie:

Both Kurt and I, it was just the most amazing, relaxing experience. Just someone scrubbing you with all these different herbs and salts. And they have weird little brushes that your eyes are closed and. And you can’t even. Like. One of them was this big, puffy, like, pillow feeling that was running across the top of your body. It was so weird, but so great.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, I haven’t done it. I’ve seen them. I’ve done, like, the part that we’re just going in, like, in the. In the sauna or the steam bath. That’s it. I haven’t had the full rub down yet. Maybe on this Turkish.

Stephanie:

We’re going to do it. Yeah, it’s great. I’ll do it.

Michael Kenney:

No, it’ll be fun, but no, it’s very popular over there. The Turkish amans. To do that. So there definitely will be that opportunity. I will. I’ll give it a shot. You know, it’ll be interesting to have someone scrub me down with salts. But, hey, life’s about to have any experiences and.

And I’m. And I’m. I’m for it, but I’m glad you enjoyed that. But, yes, they definitely have that. And you’ll have that opportunity if you want again. It’s. Yeah, it’s always. It’s.

Stephanie:

I’m not gonna make anyone go get naked and do this, but if you want to get naked and do this, I’m telling you, it’s amazing. And they probably actually. They wear bathing suits because they’re pretty modest. Or they’ll have, like, a separate women’s area and a separate men’s area. When we did it in Athens, it was men and women together, and we wore bathing suits. And then when you got into the private room, you could take your bathing suit off. And they were very modest and helpful, but.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. So being comfortable. Yeah, no, that’s. That’s great. Well, that’ll be. Maybe we’ll just get a whole group and do that to get so great.

Stephanie:

Yeah, it’s just like. It was one of the best things I’ve ever done. And I. I like spas and massage, and I’ve done a lot of weird things like that. This was, like, just amazing. Well, I’m excited. I hope that people will join us. The way it works is you can find all the itinerary on defined destinations website.

We’ll link that in the show notes here you can see each particular day and what city you’ll be in and what you’ll be doing and what’s included. I would imagine in most of these breakfast is included because that’s typically a sort of European thing to do. And then as he’s. As Michael said, a lot of the meals are included. I do think when you’re breaking open a new destination, it’s important to kind of give people a sense of what they’re going to be experiencing. And food is obviously a big part of that. And food is a big part of my journey on this trip. Turkish delights, if you’ve never had them, they’re like this beautiful little jelly.

Turkish coffee is very different. It’s a much more intense coffee experience. So if you’re a coffee drinker, you’ll learn a lot. Also, olive oil is very much present in Turkey. Like again, I keep comparing it to Italy, but it is right across the water. So there’s a lot of different olive oils that are used in Turkey, a lot of different spices. We’re going to have fun. So the way this works is you can go online, you can put your deposit down and full payment is due I think in January for this trip.

You can book your own travel if you want to, meaning get your airfare to get to where we’re going to meet for the trip. Or you can use Michael’s got a service that can help you book all your airfare. I personally like to control my airfare because I like to have the miles and I like to know exactly how I’m going to set things up on my itinerary. Kurt and I also like to get there like a day or two in advance just to get acclimated a little bit before the rest of you guys come. So that I’m not super jet lagged. I’m on fire by the time you arrive. And yeah, we do. There’s going to be a lot of beautiful wine, I’m assuming too, because that’s something that there’s a great grape destination there.

You don’t know about Turkish wines yet, but you will. They, they exist. There’s actually quite a lot of them. Yeah. And that’s how it works. Michael, you’ve got a special offer just to get people that may be on the fence a little bit. Yeah.

Michael Kenney:

Well, we’re excited. The trip again is April 9th through the 20th. And again, go online, take it just take a look at the website, look at some of the pictures. You’ll absolutely love it. And then even all the things that we’ve talked about that aren’t even mentioned in the itinerary, there’s so many fun things. But if you’re listening to this and you’re new to register, you’ll get $200 off per person if you register for the trip. Final payment is January 1st, so just think about that. So this would be a great.

A great gift for a loved one. Hey, let’s. We’re going to go to Turkey. And I hear more and more people are. They want to have a travel experience rather than having tangible things about having experiences, especially with ones you love. So hopefully this trip to Turkey, if you want to try something new and have just an amazing experience about a place you maybe haven’t heard too much about, I think you’ll absolutely love it. So just go to defined destinations.com, like Stephanie said. She’ll have the link there, too.

Against April 9th through the 20th. You can register right there. If you need help with airfare, we’re happy to do that. So we make it pretty easy for you on that end. So we’re gonna. We’re gonna have a blast with a great group of people and hopefully, you know, you’ll want to join this small group of no more than 15 people.

Stephanie:

Is this the time that we tell people that are listening to maybe stay tuned. I mean, we do have a pretty epic October trip planned.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, no, I mean, go for it. We don’t have the. All the dates totally confirmed, but we’re. Yeah, go ahead.

Stephanie:

Well, we’re working on one of the trips. So I have taken people to Spain, I’ve taken people to Croatia, I’ve taken people to Cambodia, Thailand, and now Turkey. And the Croatia trip was really magical and people loved it. And I have a huge fondness for Croatia. Obviously, I’ve been there a lot, and there were a lot of people that wanted to go on that trip that didn’t get the opportunity because it’s a luxury experience. It’s a luxury yacht. It’s small rooms or not small rooms. It’s a small ship with actually, the rooms were quite big for a boat.

And so we had so many people that wanted to do that itinerary again. Michael said, hey, how about we do it again? But I’ll add a couple of new things so that it’s a new experience for you too, Stephanie, because there is. I’ve never been to Zagreb, which seems probably surprising since I’ve been to Croatia so many times and there’s a bunch of these finger lakes. What do they call those? Is it the plastic lakes?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, the Plaviche Lakes National Park. Yep.

Stephanie:

The national parks in Croatia are legendary. If you. I mean Mijet has one of the most beautiful national parks on it with a monastery in the middle of this lake. So we are going to be taking another small group. It’ll be smallish. I think we had 28 on our last.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah, enough to fill the boat. And the boat only can sleep like 34. So it’s a small experience on that. But yeah, I’m excited to go back to that again. That’s been one of our hot sellers, our Croatia trip. So with the Zagreb and the Blevice lakes and then our seven night cruise, the Croatia trip will be great. So maybe you want to do two trips. Our beautiful Turkey trip in the spring and then come October we’ll have this amazing trip to, to Croatia.

So go out and have experiences and hopefully you want to join us. I think you’ll find great value, great meals just. And great people that to travel with.

Stephanie:

And if you’re listening and you want to explore Michael’s other trips because he takes trips with other people, not just me. And also he just guides trips himself. Just tell him that you’re a friend of Stephanie’s dish so that he knows that you came from my referral. But just like, yeah, if you want to sign up for a Christmas market or you’re interested in heading to the Amalfi coast, traveling with defined destinations is a really great opportunity. They do it extremely well. I have traveled a lot and so I’ve had some good experiences and some not so good experiences. So I know that when you travel with Michael, you’re in good hands. I’m still just missing our guide Peter, who was with us on our last Sicilian trip, who turns out has been your friend for like 25 years.

I just miss him. He’s such a character. I loved him so much.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. And that’s great. Yeah. Peter’s a good friend of mine for. He’s our Austrian guy, but he’s. He’s got family in, in Italy and does some of our, our Central European trips. But again, like you said it too, it’s, it’s. Again, it’s more than just the sights.

You’re building relationships even if you’re not even looking for that. But it’s fun to recall and all the good people you’ve met and the fun experiences you’ve had along the way. I love what I do, and hopefully it shows in our trips. It’s all about having a great experience with great people, so encourage you. And you’ve been such a great part of the defined destinations family. Thank you, Stephanie.

Stephanie:

I love it.

Michael Kenney:

Looking forward to more.

Stephanie:

If I didn’t, people know I would have kicked you to the curb long ago. And you even have got. You’ve even converted Kurt.

Michael Kenney:

So, I mean, yeah, that’s great. So, yeah, it’s about. About having fun and that’s what we do. And we’d love to have you on, on any of our trips.

Stephanie:

Yeah. All right, you guys. So I’ll put all that information that you need in the links below. We are going to Turkey and I hope you come. That’s all I can say because I’m gonna probably be talking about it non stop because I’m so excited.

Michael Kenney:

That’s great.

Stephanie:

I’m.

Michael Kenney:

I’m looking forward to it. Thanks again, Steph.

Stephanie:

Thanks, Michael. Okay, bye. Bye.

Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

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Thank you to everyone who tuned into my live video on Tuesday night! I had a good time making some of my favorite recipes from the “True North Cabin Cookbook Vol 2” If you missed it you can watch the video above!

I’ll be signing books at these locations if you want to pick up a signed copy

Here are the recipes we made!

Pomegranate Old Fashioned from the “True North Cabin Cookbook Vol 2”

Pomegranate Old Fashioned

Ingredients

* 1 Tbsp Pomegranate seeds

* 2 oz Pomegranate juice

* ¼ teaspoon maple syrup

* 2 ox Bourbon

* 4 dashes orange butters

* Orange slice for garnish

Instructions

* Muddle the pomegranate seeds with the pomegranate juice, maple syrup and orange bitters

* Add bourbon and shake in a cocktail shaker to combine

* Pour over rocks glass with ice and garnish with an orange slice

Roasted Brussels Sprouts:

Ingredients

* 3-4 Cups Brussels Sprouts, cut in half or quarters

* Tbsp olive oil

* Teaspoon kosher salt

* 1/4 cup Fig Jam, or you can substitute Apricot Jam, Orange Marmalade, or other jam

* 1 Tbsp Balsamic Vinegar or Pomegranate Molasses

Instructions

* Toss Brussels Sprouts in olive oil and salt and roast in a 400 degree oven for 30 minutes

* Toss with the jam and the vinegar and roast for another 10 minutes

Instant Pot 5 Minute Risotto

Get the recipe here!

Scallops With Oven-Baked Risotto

Ingredients

For the Risotto

* 1 1/2 cups Arborio Rice

* 4 cups chicken stock

* 1/2 cup diced onion

* 1 large garlic cloves minced

* 3 Tbsp butter diced into 6 chunks

* 1 teaspoon black pepper

* 1 teaspoon salt

* Zest of one lemon

* 3 Tbsp lemon juice

* 1/3 cup Parmesan Cheese

* 1 Tbsp chopped parsley

* 3 Tbsp chopped Dill

For the Scallops

* ½ cup flour

* 1 tsp paprika

* ½ tsp. Lawry’s seasoned salt

* ½ tsp. pepper

* pinch of sugar

* 1/4 cup butter

* 1/4 cup dry white wine

* 4 Tbsp lemon juice

* 16 large Day Boat Scallops patted dry

Instructions

For The Risotto

* Preheat oven to 350

* In a 10-inch oven safe skillet or pot with a lid, add the rice, stock, onion, garlic and butter

* Cover the pot with tin foil and the lid of the pot and bake for 45 minutes

* Remove the pot from the oven and start the broiler preheating for the Scallops

* Add pepper, salt, lemon zest, lemon juice, and 1/3 cup parmesan cheese to the rice pot and vigorously stir for 3 minutes, combining all the ingredients and blending the risotto until creamy. If the mixture seems dry, you can add additional broth or cream a few Tbsp at a time until you get the consistency and creaminess you desire. Cover the pot and let rest until the scallops are done.

* Right before serving and plating, stir fresh herbs into the rice

For The Scallops

* Preheat the broiler

* Mix all dry ingredients in a plastic bag.

* Melt butter in a baking dish under the broiler. Add the wine and lemon juice.

* Toss scallops in dry ingredients – shake until coated.

* Put scallops in a buttered baking dish and spoon a teaspoon of butter over each scallop.

* Broil for 4-6 minutes until no longer opaque and cooked through

* Serve the scallops alongside the risotto with fresh lemon slices and the broiled butter spooned over both the scallops and drizzled over the risotto

Pecan Pie Bars

Get the recipe here

Thanks for cooking along! If you like these recipe please share and like by clicking the heart below.

November 18 5-8 pM Fitgers Duluth

Author Talk and Recipe Tasting collaborative event between The Bookstore at Fitger’s, Duluth Kitchen & The Boat Club.

The Boat Club, 600 E Superior Street, Duluth, MN 55802

Get your ticket

November 19, 6:30-8 PM Knife Sharpening and Book Signing EventVivront

A fall gathering for home cooks, flavor seekers, and anyone who knows the joy of a sharp knife and a good story.

4948 France Ave S, Edina, MN 55410

Get Tickets

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On the latest episode of “Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish”, I sit down with accomplished book cover designer, art director, and now, celebrated cookbook author, @LauraKlyn The episode is a deliciously detailed look into Laura’s new book, “100 Pie, Tart and Galette Recipes for Every Season”and a behind-the-scenes peek into her world of culinary creativity and design.

From the moment I flipped through the pages, it was clear Laura’s design expertise shines brightly. Laura’s background as a cover designer and art director, paired with hands-on experience working on dozens of cookbooks, comes to life in her visually stunning collection. Each photo in the book tells a story——and is surrounded by thoughtful prop styling, from vintage pie servers to antique dishes discovered at local shops.

A special treat is Laura’s focus on savory pies—think samosa pie or the show-stopping asparagus tart—beautiful options for every season and palate. The attention to technique continues with creative garnishes, like sugared cranberries and candied herbs, adding sparkle to your holiday spreads and beyond.

Laura’s cookbook recommendations are rock solid—even non-pie bakers will find plenty to love between these pages.

Ready to up your pie game? Listen to the full episode for stories, tips, and plenty of seasonal baking inspiration!

Enjoy these two recipes from Laura, one savory and one sweet, to get a taste of her book!

Lemon Meringue Tart

Makes 1 10-inch round tart

I love this twist on lemon meringue pie in tart form. For me, the proportion of crust to lemon is perfect, and it’s even better with Swiss meringue instead of French meringue, which is a traditional pairing with lemon. Swiss meringue is cooked on the stove and doesn’t need to go in the oven. It is softer and creamier, adding a beautiful airy sweetness to counter the tart lemon curd. This bright tart comes out looking lovely and tastes even better.

Press-In Shortbread Tart Dough

Makes 1 10-inch tart crust

I’ve tested a lot of tart crusts over the years, and many of them are so hard, it’s difficult to break off a bite with a fork. This buttery and delicious shortbread crust is delicate enough to easily break apart but strong enough to hold the tart together. Using cake flour is key to getting a nice, cookie-like crumb. This dough is not tough enough to roll out. Press the dough directly into the pan for an easy to pull together, delicious tart base.

Ingredients

¾ cup (169 g) unsalted butter, softened

½ teaspoon fine sea salt

2 teaspoons vanilla extract

⅔ cup (73 g) confectioners’ sugar

2 cups (230 g) cake flour

Instructions

In the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with the paddle attachment, mix butter, salt, vanilla extract, and confectioners’ sugar on medium speed until light and fluffy, about 5 minutes. Add flour and mix just until combined. Press dough directly into a 10-inch tart pan, starting with the sides and finishing with the bottom. Bake the crust according to the tart recipe’s instructions.

Lemon Curd

Ingredients

8 egg yolks

zest of 2 lemons

⅔ cup fresh lemon juice

1 cup (200g) sugar

10 tablespoons (141 g) salted butter

Swiss Meringue

5 egg whites

1¼ cups (250 g) sugar

½ teaspoon cream of tartar

1 teaspoon vanilla bean paste

Instructions

To make the crust: Preheat oven to 350ºF. Press tart dough into a 10-inch tart pan. Generously dock with a fork and bake for 25 to 30 minutes or until lightly browned. While still hot, use a tamper or back of a spoon to lightly press down the center of the crust, leaving a ¾-inch edge.

To make the lemon curd: Whisk together egg yolks, lemon zest, lemon juice, and sugar in a saucepan. Cook over medium-high heat, stirring constantly, until mixture becomes thick and coats the back of the spoon, about 8 to 10 minutes. Use an instant read thermometer to check the temperature; it should reach 170ºF. Transfer to the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with the paddle attachment. Mix on low. Add butter 1 teaspoon at a time, mixing until fully combined before adding the next teaspoon of butter. Strain through a sieve into a medium bowl. Pour while still warm into the tart shell. Cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours.

To make the Swiss meringue: Whisk together egg whites and sugar in the top pan of a double boiler until completely incorporated (see note below). Cook, whisking continuously, for about 5 to 6 minutes or until mixture reaches 170ºF. Pour into the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with the whisk attachment. Add cream of tartar. Beat on high for about 2 minutes. Add vanilla extract and continue to beat on high until stiff peaks form. Scoop or pipe onto lemon curd. Toast meringue with a kitchen torch or under the oven broiler. Keep a close watch on meringue while toasting to avoid burning. Remove sides of tart pan and serve.

Episode Transcript Follows:

Stephanie Hansen:

Welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space and a lot of cookbook authors. And this book came across my desk by Laura Klynstra And right away I was like, pie! Laura, your book, “100 Pie, Tart and Galette Recipes for Every Season” is extremely beautiful. And, and I, it kind of, when I read through the whole book and I read through your bio, I was like, oh, well, she's like in the design field because honestly, this is probably one of the most beautiful books on pie I've ever seen.

Laura Klynstra:

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

Stephanie Hansen:

It's so incredible, like just the way that the pies are decorated, the color choices that you used for the intros, everything is laid out so it feels easy, accessible. And even like the whole rolling out the pie dough section, there's tons of pictures, the decorating of the lattice work, It's a really well done book. Congratulations.

Laura Klynstra:

Oh, thank you so much.

Stephanie Hansen:

What's your background and how did you come to be the pie aficionado?

Laura Klynstra:

My background is actually cover design. I'm a book cover designer and art director. But I also, during all the time that I've been an art director, I've also worked on a lot of cookbooks. So I gotten to go on a lot of photo shoots, work with food stylists and photographers. And during that whole time I learned, I just kind of sat back and watched and learned all the bits and it took time. I'm a self taught photographer. It took me a long time to really figure out how to capture light correctly. And light is really the key to getting a good photo.

Laura Klynstra:

So yeah, it was a lot of trial and error, but eventually I figured out a system to get my camera mounted correctly. I shoot manually and get that light, but I also, I consider every photo similar to what the way I look at a cover design. It's not just here's your pie or whatever it is you're shooting. There's a lot of things going on around it. And so it's telling a story. The photograph is telling a story. It's giving you a sense of the time. Especially like the fall ones are a lot of fun to shoot.

Laura Klynstra:

So many great things to props that you can put in with the photos for the fall shots. And it's just, it's a lot of fun.

Stephanie Hansen:

Did you amass a large library of props and did you have things already or were you always on the lookout?

Laura Klynstra:

This is my third book, so I had a lot of props already. I have like all these Storage shelves downstairs have the weirdest things. You know, I go to antique stores and I'm always looking for old boxes and just everything. Pretty much everything that could possibly have anything to do with baking. If I go to an antique store, I'm always like, I need that. Especially pie servers. Old, old silverware.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes.

Laura Klynstra:

I hate, I hate photographing with a shiny silver, you know, piece of silver or a new one that it never, you know, for one thing, you can end up reflecting your camera in that. So these old patina silverware and things like that are just fabulous to have. Like, you just gotta have a ton of those in your.

Stephanie Hansen:

In your Agreed, agree. Thus my sort of background of stuff from my cookbook styling myself in. Can we talk about pie crust? Do you have, like, what you would say is your definitive pie crust that you mostly use.

Laura Klynstra:

For sweet pies? There's a recipe in there called a maple pie crust, and that's actually my favorite crust to use. It's very similar to a regular crust, except for a lot of the liquid is made with a pure maple syrup. And when you roll that crust out, that syrup gives it like a pliability that just. It doesn't crack the way sometimes you can get with the regular all butter pie crust. And it's just so easy. And so it's just supple. It's, it's. It's my favorite one.

Laura Klynstra:

But again, I'd only use it for sweets. Even though you don't really taste the maple, it's like, you know how when you add maple to something, it doesn't have a strong flavor, as strong as what you would expect it to be, but it' if you're beginning. That would be my press recommendation for somebody who's just beginning because it does make a really easy to roll out.

Stephanie Hansen:

I love this because I use vodka in my pie crust to kind of do the same thing. It gives you that moisture when you're putting the assembly together and the roll, but then it bakes out in the final product, so you get kind of a crispier situation. Maple. I've never thought of that. I wonder, have you ever tried honey? Would it do the same thing?

Laura Klynstra:

I haven't tried it. I would expect it would. And it would just add a little bit of sweetness. The other thing is buttermilk. You can add a little buttermilk that I don't know if you've ever made pie dough, and then put it in your refrigerator and left it in there for two days and it started to turn kind of like a gray Color, Yes. When you add some acid from the buttermilk keeps it from doing that. I'm not sure. I can't.

I don't know what the science is behind that, but a little. A little. I think the vodka might, too. I'm not sure. I.

Stephanie Hansen:

That's a great.

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

I know what you're talking about, and I'm trying to think if I've noticed it with or without vodka. And I can't say. Truthfully, I have, but, like, a lot of times for Christmas or Thanksgiving or any of the. The special holidays, you're making your crust in advance because you've got so much to do, so. So that's a really great tip. I love it.

Laura Klynstra:

Yep. Yep. And you can also freeze pie dough. So you can make. If you're having Thanksgiving and you're. You're. You can do it a week ahead, just wrap each one individually and then put it inside a freezer as a black bag and then throw it in the freezer. And that way you're just.

You've got something that's totally done, even a week in advance.

Stephanie Hansen:

One thing that I really liked about this book, too, was you took pie into not just sweet places, but also savory. So there's a lot of galette and, like, savory forward dishes, like a potato bacon, gruyere galette. You've got quiche. Do you eat a lot of savory pies? Because that's actually kind of one of my favorite ways to do it. This samosa pie looks amazing.

Laura Klynstra:

The samosa pie is so popular at my house. So popular. We love that one. So, yeah, we do eat that one quite a bit. The quiches, we do a lot. Some of the other ones, not as often, but, like, the. The asparagus one is kind of just more of something that I would bring to a party.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Spring or Easter.

Yeah. You know, like, that first time when you. Asparagus is one of the first things that comes out. And in this. In the spring. And so you're just, like, dying to get something fresh. We talked. before I started the podcast that. She's in Michigan, I'm in Minnesota. And literally, like, when you see anything green at the store. And we always jump the gun. Right. Because.

Get produce from the coast before we get our own, but there's nothing better than, like, your own homemade asparagus.

Laura Klynstra:

Yes. And the rhubarb is the other thing that comes up the soonest. And again, I love rhubarb. It's.

Stephanie Hansen:

So do I think that's My next book, actually.

Laura Klynstra:

The whole rhubarb book.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes, because I just. I'm obsessed with it, and I have, like, 60 recipes, so I'm like, you know, I'm. I'm about way there.

Laura Klynstra:

What kinds of recipes are they? Like cakes and.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Yes. Like bars and cakes and pies and custards, but also chutneys and pork dishes and breads, cookies.

Laura Klynstra:

That's a fabulous idea. I'm on board with that one.

Stephanie Hansen:

I think I might have to, like, submit that as my next proposal. We'll see. Another thing that happened this year about pies, I guess it was maybe last year, but it created quite a kerfuffle, and you address it in this book, is the loss of the chocolate wafer cookie. The company that makes the chocolate wafer cookie, I believe it was Nabisco, stopped making that chocolate wafer cookie. And it was the base for a lot of people's, like, mud pies or chocolate pie crust or the press in crusts or the cookie crusts. And people were really freaked out, and people were, you know, we need a recipe to make this cookie. So in here, you have your own chocolate cookie recipe.

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah. Yep. It's got the black cocoa in it. Like, it's actually like an Oreo, but without the. And if you do end up using Oreos, do take out that middle part. I always scrape out the. If you don't, you're gonna end up with kind of like a too much butter and it's not gonna work. But, yeah, you can make your own so that you're not adding all these preservatives and yucky things into your pies, but sometimes people don't have time.

I mean, I totally understand that you can't always.

Stephanie Hansen:

And I guess maybe depending on your audience too, like, if you're making something for a kid's birthday party, maybe that will be fine. Not that we feed our kids less delicious things than we feed ourselves, but come on, we kind of do times. I do love to. There's a lot of detail in this book about garnishes and sauces. And the white chocolate cranberry tart is just a beautiful photograph, but it also has these sugared cranberries. Tell me about those. And. And obviously, putting them on a tart is delightful, but what else could we do with those? Because those were just gorgeous.

Laura Klynstra:

I've used them on cakes. And just even, like, even if you're doing a spread, like a holiday spread, they look beautiful in a little bowl. And that same method, the method to make Those is you create a simple syrup and then you dunk the cranberries in the simple syrup and then you let it dry and they become really sticky. And then you roll them in sugar so they look really beautiful. But you can do that same process with mint leaves, rose petals, rosemary. And it's just a beautiful garnish, especially in the winter, because it has that sparkle to it. It just makes it look more special than if you were just going to, you know, lay a sprig of rosemary next to something.

Stephanie Hansen:

When you started making pies, do you remember how old you were? And what is it about pies that captured your imagination?

Laura Klynstra:

Well, I really like the handmade nature of it. The fact that, I mean, before I made pies, I was a cookie baker. Cookies were my. Because that's the easiest thing when you're a little. When you're a kid. And I baked since I was basically able to. My mom was a wedding cake baker, so we had all the supplies and all.

Stephanie Hansen:

Wow.

Laura Klynstra:

All the inspiration was there, but I didn't start making. And my mom, she always, she loved pie too, but she always used the pie crust from the box, which I kind of hate, but same, same. She just didn't like rolling out dough. So she just, she just used the, the rolled. The rolled up version. But you can buy better versions than the red box. There are.

Stephanie Hansen:

Joe's is surprisingly good.

Laura Klynstra:

I think that, yeah, Whole Foods has one too. That's butter instead of like the other weird oils that are in the. The other one. But I think maybe all of my love of like rolling out cookies and then you kind of turn that into rolling out dough. I learned it was a learning curve. I don't think that we just all naturally can know how to make a pie crust and how to roll it out. And you have to practice a little bit. But the lovely part of, of a pie versus a cake or a cookie is that there's just more of your hands involved.

Laura Klynstra:

And because I make so many things electronically and digitally, because I'm a book cover designer. So to have to be able to make something physically with your hands is both relaxing and satisfying. And I think it makes like a more special finished product. It makes a great gift or something to share with people, to bring to the office or a party or a potluck, and it just feels like it. A pie has a slightly more personal touch to it than maybe a cookie does or a bar. Even though I love cooking bars, don't get me wrong.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. Tell me about your other books.

Laura Klynstra:

So this is The Homemade Pie Cookbook is the first book I've written by myself. My book just before this one was called “Gather & Graze” and I wrote with my former colleague who is also an art director. She, she does the, she works at HarperCollins. Sure. Mumtaz Mustafa @spiceandsugartableand I have it right here. This is “Gather & Graze”

Stephanie Hansen:

That's beautiful.

Laura Klynstra:

So this is more of like a party table spread book. So Mumtaz is brilliant with savory food and I'm more, more of a baker. She's from Pakistan, so she's got this really broad sense of spice and she's just brilliant with the savory. So we split this book up by anything that was baked in the oven I've made and then pretty much anything that was cooked on stove she made. And it's divided by country. So it's a really fun international style party book.

Stephanie Hansen:

I love that. I'm glad you brought it to my attention. I'll for sure put that in the notes.

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's quite fat. It's, it's a, it's, it's, there's over like 170 recipes in it. It's not a, not a lightweight book. And then the book before that I wrote with my mother. Oh, look at that cute “Christmas Baking”. And this one is it, it does well every, every holiday season. And it's kind of, it's been out for I think five years. And so it's kind of a perennial, hopefully at this point.

Laura Klynstra:

And it's just, you know, all my favorite. But Christmas baked goods. There's a, there's a breakfast chapter in there for Christmas morning.

Stephanie Hansen:

Holiday high points. What's next?

Laura Klynstra:

I got my way. And who knows if I will. I would like to do a fall baking book.

Stephanie Hansen:

What would that look like? I'm thinking apple. You have quite a, like pumpkin chapter in here.

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah. Yep. They would have all of those, those, those cozy. It would just be all the cozy, cozy recipes. And I just love the styling of fall too. Fall is one of my favorite seasons. So. Yeah, that would be, that would be super fun.

Laura Klynstra:

But I also have another idea for, called like, I want to call it Paradise Baking or Baking paradise, which would be all tropical recipes.

Stephanie Hansen:

That's a great idea. And that's not something we've seen before.

Laura Klynstra:

I don't, I haven't seen it. No. I have a second home in Guatemala so I could do a lot of the photography there, which would be fun. Yeah. The first few recipes in the Homemade Pie Cookbook were Shot in Guatemala. The line Mango and the hummingbird pie. So I got all of those props while I was down there.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. In the. And beautiful colors. You also dedicate, like a whole spread to apples for pie. And we just talked about this on our TV show that I'm on. And Honeycrisp is obviously an apple I use a lot because it's Minnesota. Granny Smith is an apple that I think works really well for pies. Do you mix your types of apples? Apples when you're making apple pie?

Laura Klynstra:

Sometimes I do. The Pink lady is actually one of my favorite ones now that I've been, you know, baking so many apple pies. It's got, like, a tartness to it. But yeah, there you can mix them for sure. Just don't ever use them. Macintosh.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Or like the Red Delicious, which is now. Oh, yeah, that's the worst selling apple.

Laura Klynstra:

They aren't very delicious.

Stephanie Hansen:

They're not. And it's kind of funny that, like, that was like our lunchbox apple for basically our whole lives. Like, why did we have to eat such terrible apples? I'm so glad they've gotten better.

Laura Klynstra:

Yes. There's some. I mean, pretty much every variety is better.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes, Pretty much. When you make a galette or a tart, let's just say savory, do you adjust that dough at all or do you use your same basic pie dough?

Laura Klynstra:

I use the same. Well, the. The tart is a totally different dough, but the galette is the same pie dough as the regular pies.

Stephanie Hansen:

And just.

Laura Klynstra:

You could use them. Yeah, you could use the maple pie. You could make the maple crust for a galette as well. If you. If it's a sweet, I wouldn't put it on a savory.

Stephanie Hansen:

When would you ever make, like. I love the idea of slab pies because I think they're kind of cool looking, but they seem like they're just not great. Like, I don't know who's gonna get the middle piece. And then it's just always, like, so messy and kind of falls apart. I love the idea of like, everyone getting a little bit of crust on the edge and then having their perfect little triangle. Do you serve slab pies a lot? And am I missing the boat here?

Laura Klynstra:

Oh, not a lot, but I would bring them to more of like a potluck or something. The same thing that I would bring bars to. Although you. You really can't pick it up and eat it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Laura Klynstra:

Because it's going to be kind of a more gooey center than A. Than a. And then a bar. But it's just. It's. You get a little bit more. It's going to go farther than a. Than a pie.

Laura Klynstra:

So if you just want to bring one thing and it needs to cover more people, I would bring a slab pie for that. Like a. Like a potluck summer potluck.

Stephanie Hansen:

People always ask me what my favorite recipe is in my book, and I always have the dumbest answers. So if I ask you what's your favorite recipe in your book, do you, like, have a answer that you're set on?

Laura Klynstra:

Well, the lemon meringue tart on the COVID is one of my favorite recipes in the book, and I've never been a big lemon meringue pie person, and I don't know why. It's. This is a. Has a Swiss meringue, and it's a little bit different than the lemon meringue pies that, you know, we all grew up eating. And I also feel like lemon meringue pie has too much lemon to, like, the crust is too little to the lemon. Like, the ratio.

Stephanie Hansen:

The big, like, meringue.

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah. Yeah. So this, I feel like, is the perfect ratio of meringue to lemon to crust. It's got a thick shortbread crust on it. So it's. It's actually kind of reminiscent of those lemon bars. And you're from the Midwest, so you probably had those lemon bars that everybody likes to crust. Yep.

Laura Klynstra:

It's. It's kind of like an elevated version of one of those lemon bars.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay. I'm going to have to try it, because I always make something with lemon for Easter. It's sort of just something I do for the big Easter brunch. So maybe I'll use this as my recipe this year.

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

How long does it take you to work on a book?

Laura Klynstra:

Well, I mean, it's hard to give a full, like, because there's a lot of time thinking about it and planning. Like, my first step to doing a book is to. Is writing the table of contents.

Laura Klynstra:

Is that what you do, too?

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes.

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah, I do it.

Stephanie Hansen:

So spreadsheet of all the recipes I think I want, then I sort of, like, try to organize them in some way, and then I start, like, thinking about the narrative and where I'm going to.

Laura Klynstra:

Right.

Stephanie Hansen:

I'm going to start.

Laura Klynstra:

Right. And so there's, like, this long, like, thinking period that you're not. It's just. I don't know. So it's. It's hard to put a time on how long it takes, but Once the. Once everything is set and I've gotten a few shots done and a few recipes tested, I can. I can do a book in a year and a half or a year if I'm really focused on it.

Laura Klynstra:

But I'm also doing all the photography and the design. So it's. It's a pretty intense process.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Because I just submit my photographs and my word docs and, you know, the designer makes it look pretty, and, gosh, you have to do the whole thing. That is harder.

Laura Klynstra:

And I don't have to, but, you know, you've done this much, and I am a designer. It's kind of hard to hand the design off somebody else when you're. That's like what I do. So.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, of course, when you think about other books that. Cookbooks that you love, whether from a design feature or from just like that, you go back to them and use them a lot. Give me, like, a couple of your favorites.

Laura Klynstra:

The Martha Stewart's Baking Handbook. I don't know if you have that. It's got an orange spine. It's kind of like a go to, like, oh, I want to make banana bread. It's just so reliable. So that one is always in my kitchen. I also really like the Bake From Scratch series. Have you seen those? Big.

Laura Klynstra:

They're really huge. I think they're. They're not written all by the same person. I think there's an editor that collects recipes. It's based on the magazine, I believe. But the thing I love about those is there's so many recipes in those books. They're just loaded with recipes, and then you can just kind of page through and get all kinds of inspiration and ideas. So I love those.

Laura Klynstra:

I'm a big fan of Erin Jean McDowell, who is also a pie person. I like watching her on, like, her videos and stuff.

Stephanie Hansen:

Do you watch a lot of people, like, on YouTube?

Laura Klynstra:

Not a lot, no. I mean, mostly on Instagram. I'm. I'm watching, you know, the quicker reels that come through. And, yeah, one of the. One of the things that made me so inspired to want to do the fall thing is, is when you. When the fall baking stuff starts coming out on Instagram and all these beautiful baked goods and this. This wonderful mood of cozy comes through, it's like, people are.

Laura Klynstra:

Creators are just amazing at how they. They put this mood out there, and I just. I love it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty delightful. I was just gonna think of another question I had for you, but it totally just fell out of my brain right As I thought about it, do you, have you ever had the chance to meet like any other bakers in any of your cookbook travels?

Laura Klynstra:

Specifically bakers. It seems like most of the books I've worked on have been more chef related. Like cooks like Melissa Clark. I worked on some of her cookbooks. I did the photography for Bri McCoy. She. I don't know if you've seen her book. It's called theCook's Book.

Laura Klynstra:

Yep, I did her photography for that book, so I've that kind of stuff, but I haven't done any specifically for bakers.

Stephanie Hansen:

So if in your, in your work life, do you like, like when someone gives you a recipe and you're like the person that photographs it and does the final like, is that an appealing piece of work for you?

Laura Klynstra:

Oh yeah. I love to do that too. Yeah. Yeah. Actually got a couple of them in the works right now that are coming down the pipeline.

Stephanie Hansen:

There's a lot of creators that do that and I didn't realize that, but that they, they maybe have a favorite recipe or they have recipes but they don't have the time or they don't want to be the one who puts it together for the book. So they hire all that out. Do you get any jobs like that that are one offs or do you mostly just do like a whole project?

Laura Klynstra:

Mostly a whole project.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. It's, it's interesting. There's a lot of people out there that will cook your stuff if you find the right person. And I didn't realize that that was such a robust business, but apparently it is. Do you keep like a food blog yourself or is it mostly just the book?

Laura Klynstra:

Mostly I'm mostly in the book. But we have, I have. My friend who wrote Gathering Grace with me have a. We. We have an Instagram that's called Spice and Sugar. Oh, she's the spice and sugar table. Because spicy sugar was taken and she's the spice and I'm the sugar. Of course that's sweet.

Stephanie Hansen:

And you guys share it. So you just post when you're inspired?

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah, yeah. And we don't. We, we haven't posted.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Sometimes like what sounds good and feels good just falls away, right? It's no reason or rhyme. Just all of a sudden you're like not as interested in that anymore.

Laura Klynstra:

Well, I think we're, and we're so, both of us are so focused in the book world and our career. Careers are very busy. So it's like I feel, I feel like to really maintain one of those robust social media sites you have to be pretty much focused on it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Some people post, like, on Facebook, like, 12 times a day. I don't know. They manage it all. But do you watch any baking shows? Like, are you a great British Bake off aficionado or.

Laura Klynstra:

I don't. I watch almost no tv.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay, So I love that. And you have chickens too, right?

Laura Klynstra:

And I have chickens and duck.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay. And do you eat the duck eggs and the chicken eggs?

Laura Klynstra:

Obviously, yeah. Usually the duck eggs I use in baking. I don't. You know, it has a slightly different flavor, and if you're not used to it, it's kind of like. It feels a little weird. But they're. They're actually have a higher fat content in a duck egg, and they're really great for baking, especially for cakes and.

Stephanie Hansen:

Oh, I love that. I don't think I ever thought about duck eggs in context of baking. That's so neat.

Laura Klynstra:

They're a little larger, so you might. Sometimes you have to be a little, like, careful because.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Laura Klynstra:

You know, they might end up being too much egg in here, depending on how many eggs are in the. Like, if there's four eggs, you would probably only put three.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, you can kind of see it, too, when you have the egg, like, the size. All right. The book is the Homemade pie Cookbook. It's 100 pie, tart, and galette recipes for every season. Like I said, it's beautiful. But even if you're, like, not thinking you're a pie person, I really think people would like this book because there's ice cream pies, there is icebox pies. Again, there's a lot of savory. There's tarts, there's little.

Stephanie Hansen:

There's some cookies in here, some sauces. There's just a lot of different things. When I started to go through the book, I was pleasantly surprised that there's a lot to offer here. There's whoopie pies. Your whoopie pie recipe looked great. Yeah. Everybody loves a good whoopee pie, don't they?

Laura Klynstra:

Yeah. I thought I might be stretching it a little bit with that one, but I'm like, it's called pie, so it's a pie.

Stephanie Hansen:

That's right. It's Laura Kleinstra, The Homemade Pie Cookbook. Thanks for being with me today, Laura.

Laura Klynstra:

Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, for sure. And when you get your. When you get your next book ready, give me a call anytime. I love talking to you.

Laura Klynstra:

Okay, great.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay. All right. Bye. Bye.

Laura Klynstra:

Bye.

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