etui.podcast

A discussion about the latest scholarly thinking on the 'just transition' agenda and the ongoing challenges of effective policy implementation.

How does just transition interrelate with ideas about ‘eco-social’ transformation?

What is the best way to define, and enact, the ‘justice’ part of the concept?

And how do we get the policy design right, particularly in an often unsympathetic political environment?

The guests on this episode of 'Voices on the world of work' are Paolo Graziano, Professor of Political Science at the University of Padua and Research Associate at the European Social Observatory, and Giorgos Galanis, Reader in Applied Economics at Queen Mary University of London and Visiting Senior Fellow at The London School of Economics.

Further reading

EU funds for the socio-ecological transition | etui (Paolo Graziano, Sebastiano Sabato, Slavina Spasova, Filippo Grisolia and Federica Fleischmann)

Towards a just transition | etui (Giorgos Galanis and Lilit Popoyan)

Who supports a (just) green transition? | etui

Workers as climate actors: what can unions do about climate change? | etui

ETUI topic page: Just transition, industrial policy and climate change | etui

A crisis has been building in Europe's automotive industry over the past few years, as it has struggled to adapt to the challenges of Chinese competition and the shift to electromobility.

For a sector that employs millions of workers, this is a serious issue - for people's jobs, for Europe's industrial core, and for the green transition as a whole.

So let's unpack this complicated relationship between the woes of the car industry and the push for electrification in Europe. How much is the former due to the latter, and why has electrification not happened faster? More fundamentally, what role should EU policy be playing in this delicate balancing act between climate, social and industrial objectives?

With me today to do this unpacking are Benjamin Denis, Head of Industrial Policy Coordination at IndustriAll Europe, which is the trade union federation of industrial workers, and Tommaso Pardi, Senior Researcher at the French National Centre for Scientific Research, Director of GERPISA, the research network on the automotive industry, and contributor to the ETUI's recently published book 'Is ‘electromobility made in Europe’ still possible?'

Further reading

⁠Is ‘electromobility made in Europe’ still possible? | etui⁠

⁠Is Europe on track towards net zero mobility? | etui⁠

⁠On the way to electromobility - a green(er) but more unequal future? | etui⁠

⁠Heavier, faster and less affordable cars | etui⁠

⁠Enough is Enough⁠ (IndustriAll Europe campaign on the future of industry and industrial jobs in Europe)

Europe is the fastest-warming continent on Earth, a reality that all kinds of workplaces need to adapt to. Recent survey evidence tells us that around one in five workers in the EU have reported exposure to extreme heat at work, rising to one in three workers in some southern countries.

So this begs the question: does the law do enough to ensure adequate worker protection? And what are the costs of inaction?

This episode's guest is Marouane Laabbas-el-Guennouni (ETUI), one of the authors of a new report on the impact of climate change on workers’ health, which looks at how EU legislation can be improved to address the challenge of rising temperatures.

Joining us is Ivan Ivanov, political secretary at the European Federation of Food, Agriculture, and Tourism Trade Unions (EFFAT), which represents some of the most vulnerable types of labour when it comes to extreme heat exposure.

Further reading

Climate change and workers’ health | etui

Workers and the climate challenge | etui

Heatwaves as an occupational hazard | etui

[Mid-episode advert for Unsung: Cleaners, a new podcast from UNI Europa.]

EU Inc, otherwise known as the 28th regime, has made a big splash in Brussels recently. In March of this year, the European Commission proposed what it terms a ‘single set of corporate rules across the EU’ that companies – with a particular focus on startups – could opt into rather than having to navigate the myriad of national legal regimes on the continent. It is a flagship policy of the Commission's agenda for a more competitive European economy.

The Commission has claimed that the proposed Regulation includes strong safeguards against abuse, but the labour movement has strongly criticised some of the proposal's elements that present a risk to hard-won labour rights in individual Member States and the threat it poses to worker representation in corporate governance.

In this discussion, Marcus Meyer-Erdmann and Sara Lafuente, senior researchers at the ETUI specialising in European industrial relations and worker participation, explain what's really at stake here.

To dive deeper into the ETUI's ongoing analysis of the 28th regime project, take a look at these two recent policy briefs:

Innovation or evasion? How the 28th Regime ‘EU Inc.’ undermines collective rights and shifts corporate risk on to workers | etui

How a 28th company law regime jeopardises workers’ rights | etui

The Counter-app series explores how app-based workers can counter the power of their algorithmic bosses. Each episode is based on cutting-edge research by the European Trade Union Confederation (ETUC) on platform work and how workers are resisting digitised exploitation.

In the final episode of this mini-series, journalist and researcher Ben Wray takes a deep-dive into the EU's recent Platform Work Directive, which Member States must transpose into their national legal regimes by December 2026.

The episode is based on 'The Platform Work Directive: Trade union guide to transposition', the fourth and final report of the ETUC's Fair Platforms project, a series of manuals on work in the platform economy.

Interested in hearing other 'voices on the world of work'? Take a look back at previous seasons of etui.podcast.

Acknowledgements

Thanks to Martin Willems, Daniel Cruz and Silvia Rainone for their contributions to this episode.

Credits

GeenStijl (2023). 'Uber Files: "Ruthless greed and state failure", testifies whistleblower Mark MacGann'. Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLjBzIgqVvk

Timestamps

00:00 to 01:32: Introduction

1:33 to 04:52: Part 1 - The legal presumption of employment

04:53 to 08:46: Part 2 - Procedural laws

08:47 to 12:19: Part 3 - Intermediaries

12:20 to 14:47: Part 4 - Algorithmic management

14:48 to 20:24: Part 5 - Enforcement 2

0:25 to 20:54: Outro

link: https://www.etuc.org/sites/default/files/publication/file/2026-02/ETUC%20Manual%20OSH.pdf
Time stamps:
00:00 to 00:48: Introduction
00:49 to 08:10: Part 1: Sebastian Galassi’s story
08:11 to 14:01: Part 2: Psycho-social hazards
14:02 to 18:37: Part 3: How can we ensure health & safety in platform work?
18:38 to 19:08: Outro

STRUCTURE
Introduction: 00:00 to 00:54
00:55 to 2:32: Part 1: What is Uberisation?
02:33 to 07:25: Part 2: What makes an industry vulnerable to Uberisation?
07:26 to 09:58: Part 3: 5 industries vulnerable to Uberisation - 1) Education
09:59 to 11:58: 2) Mental health care
11:59 to 14:31: 3) Music
14:32 to 17:10: 4) Agency work
17:11 to 21:52: 5) Data annotation
21:53 to 23:25: Part 4: De-Uberisation
23:26 to 23:56: Outro
CREDITS
Background music: ‘Embrace’, by Evgeny Bardyuzha (downloaded with a creative commons licence from pixabay.com).
Interviews with Samantha Howe, Linas Mazgeika, Elmar Smid and Jonas Valente were conducted in person at the ETUC ‘Platforum’ in Nicosia, Cyprus, September 25-26. Thanks to all.
HighLine Executives (2025). ‘THE Uber for Videography and Photography | Kawser Khan | HTX | S2 E7’. Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipFPXFIKouc
Finweek Magazine (2016). ‘finweek Money Matters: The "Uber" for handymen’. Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTYgUJCPY_E
DownieLive (2023). ‘I tried the "UBER" for PRIVATE JETS!’ Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq8CA2-y4FQ
The Rideshare Guy (2022). ‘People Are Doing LAUNDRY For Others As A SIDE HUSTLE! - "The Uber for Laundry”’. Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO2NG8NxGwA
DRONE ON Podcast (2025). ‘Spexi: Why the Uber for Drone Data thinks the World Map Needs an Upgrade | DRONE ON’. Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSYnMaEsL2c
Everything Electric TECH (2024). ‘This Flatpack Electric Van Is The Uber For Potatoes! |Fully Charged Show Podcast with OX Delivers’. Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMIcmYOBd-E
House of New Mobility (2016). ’CES16 - URGENT.LY: We are the Uber for tow trucks’. Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lJjB3ormB4
Kate Ferguson (2024). ‘How online therapy became big business’. DW News.
https://www.dw.com/en/online-therapy-has-become-a-billion-dollar-business/video-70805828
BetterHelp (2025). ‘Get Matched With a Therapist That Fits Your Needs, Style, and Goals’. Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJE55BNmo2E
TEDx Talks (2019). ‘Building a global brand, locally | Rafe Offer | TEDxLSE’. Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WDGVPNrgQI

The Counter-app series explores how app-based workers can counter the power of their algorithmic bosses. Each episode is based on cutting-edge research by the European Trade Union Confederation on platform work and how workers are resisting digitised exploitation. In this first episode, Ben Wray looks at what algorithmic management is, how it affects workers and what data tools and tactics workers can use to 'negotiate the algorithm'.

The episode is based on a trade union manual to Negotiating the Algorithm published by the ETUC in September, which you can download here: https://www.etuc.org/en/publication/fair-platforms-project-thematic-reports

Structure

• 00:00 - 00:58: Introduction
• 00:59 - 03:33: Part 1: What is algorithmic management?
• 03:34 - 08:35: Part 2: What problems do workers face from algorithmic management?
• 08:36 - 12:07: Part 3: How do workers ‘negotiate the algorithm’?
• 12:08 - 19:50: Part 4: What are workers’ data tools?
• 19:51 - 22:03: Part 5: How do unions build their data capacities?
• 22:04 - 23:55: Conclusion

Credits

Background music: ‘Embrace’, by Evgeny Bardyuzha (downloaded with a creative commons licence from http://pixabay.com/)

Interviews were conducted in-person with Fiachra Ó Luain, Lucie Morpurgo and Daniel Cruz in Nicosia, Cyprus, September 2025. Thanks to all.

Ben Wray (2022). ’Data Power in the gig economy: Interview with data expert Jessica Pidoux’. The Gig Economy Project.https://open.spotify.com/episode/0XwcoHYn2FkcmHPU2FQbrU

Ben Wray (2022). ‘Algorithms, Work and the European Directive: Interview with James Farrar and Sergi Cutillas’. The Gig Economy Project.https://open.spotify.com/episode/3UEBpCVRN3bRjw14Xu1YGX

Sarah Beckmann (2023), ‘The Shipt Calculator: Crowdsourcing Gig Worker Pay Data to Audit Algorithmic Management’. MIT Media.https://www.media.mit.edu/videos/hd-shipt-app-tracker-2023-02-22/

Eric Gardner (2024). 'NEW: We put 7 Uber & Lyft drivers in one room and had them open their apps.’ More Perfect Union.https://x.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1833187863498002850

The Modern Mann (2025). ‘Interview: Revenge Of Gig Worker Armin Samii’. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjgKL7z4Ovw

Bethany Staunton, Silvia Rainone (2025). ‘What makes the Platform Work Directive a milestone? (etui.podcast)’. ETUI.https://www.etui.org/news/what-makes-platform-work-directive-milestone-etuipodcast

To close this season, etui.podcast went a little further afield than usual to take a look at the United States labour relations landscape with Kayla Blado, who recently served as Director of Congressional and Public Affairs at the US National Labor Relations Board.

In our chat she offered some insights from her experience at the federal agency, into the recent, particularly volatile chapter in US politics, and into the country’s industrial relations system more broadly.

Interested in hearing some more of our interviews? Take a look back at this and previous seasons of etui.podcast here.

The European Commission recently launched an evaluation of the 2014 directives which shape the rules around public procurement, the process by which public contracts are put out to tender.

Trade unions have called for a revision that ensures the inclusion of criteria based on quality, rather than only price. In particular, they have argued that these rules can be used as a tool to improve labour conditions and promote collective bargaining, rather than allowing some employers to be undercut by those who show less respect for workers’ rights and trade union engagement.

Discussion with Niklas Bruun, professor of law at the Hanken School of Economics in Helsinki, about hisrecent paper for the ETUI on how EU public procurement law can be improved.

Stan De Spiegelaere, Director of Policy and Research at UNI Europa, the trade union federation of service workers, lends some further insight into how the current problems play out on the ground.

Further reading

Promoting collective bargaining in public procurement | etui

Collective bargaining and public procurement in Germany | etui

Procuring Decent Work - UNI Europa

‘Invest now or deindustrialise’ was the recent, stark warning put to the EU by industrial trade unions.

Continued heavy losses in manufacturing jobs over the past decades are now culminating in what has been termed a crisis for European industry and the many workers it employs.

But how should this crisis be addressed? Is the European Commission taking the right approach with the recently presented Clean Industrial Deal? And what could a worker-friendly European industrial policy look like today?

Discussion with Judith Kirton-Darling, General Secretary of the industrial workers’ federation ⁠industriAll Europe⁠, and Ludovic Voet, Confederal Secretary at the European Trade Union Confederation.

Further reading

Industrial policy for quality jobs and a just transition | etui

Benchmarking Working Europe 2024 | etui

Green transition and job quality: risks for worker representation | etui

Workers and the climate challenge | etui

The future of the automotive sector | etui

Provisions for social conditionality, employment security and anticipation and management of change in the Clean Industrial Deal

ETUC calls for adequate financing and responsible simplification in the Clean Industrial Deal | ETUC

Amidst all the current debates in Europe about competitiveness, productivity, migration, and economic transitions – both ‘green’ and ‘digital’ - the ongoing issue of labour shortages has emerged as a major policy concern, intrinsically tied to all of the above.

But what are the major factors driving these shortages? Where do we see them the most? And what kinds of solutions would be the most effective?

Discussion with ETUI Senior Researcher Wouter Zwysen, author of multiple recent papers on labour shortages, job quality, and workers' bargaining power.

Further reading:

⁠Labour shortages, job quality and workers’ bargaining power | etui⁠

⁠Labour shortages – turning away from bad jobs | etui⁠

⁠Monopsony and non-competitive labour markets | etui⁠

⁠Benchmarking Working Europe 2024 | etui⁠

⁠Wage inequality in Europe | etui

Lowering wage inequality through collectively negotiated minima | etui⁠

⁠Green transition and job quality: risks for worker representation | etui

Industrial policy for quality jobs and a just transition | etui⁠

⁠What are governments doing about low-wage employment – and how successful is it? | etui⁠

⁠Job quality in turbulent times | etui

Security is the watchword across European politics today.

But what is the place for social and environmental policy in a security-conscious, or even security-driven, Europe?

And where does the trade union movement fit in?

Discussion with ETUI Senior Researcher Christophe Degryse about his recent Foresight Brief, ‘What if? A socio-environmental agenda in a 'security Europe'?’

Further reading

What if? A socio-environmental agenda in a 'security Europe'? | etui

Rethinking social protection in the green transition | etui

Industrial policy for quality jobs and a just transition | etui

Social policy in the European Union: state of play 2023 | etui

The standard 40-hour work week has been around for a while now as our full-time norm. But in recent times, debates about working time reduction appear to have been making somewhat of a comeback – particularly in the form of the 4-day week idea.

Is it time to rethink our working time norms? And what role is the labour movement playing in this debate?

Discussion with Agnieszka Piasna, ETUI Senior Researcher and co-author of the paper ‘Negotiating working time reduction’.

Further reading

Negotiating working time reduction | etui

‘Winning back our time’, in HesaMag#29, Navigating the AI revolution | etui

Friday on my mind - Working time in the manufacturing sector | etui

The why and how of working time reduction | etui

An anniversary can be a good occasion for reflection.

20 years ago, in 2004, eight central and eastern European countries joined the European Union. Followed by the accession of Bulgaria and Romania in 2007 and Croatia in 2013, these successive enlargements nearly doubled the number of EU Member States. And they came with many hopes for economic and social cohesion, as well as for strengthened industrial relations in the region.

So to what extent have these hopes been met?

Discussion with Vera Scépanović, lecturer in International Relations and European Studies at Leiden University and co-editor of Transfer: European Review of Labour and Research, the ETUI’s quarterly journal published by Sage Publishing.

This conversation is based on the issue of Transfer, ‘20 years after: perspectives on industrial relations in Central and Eastern Europe 20 years after the EU enlargement’.

This year, after a long and embattled process, the EU adopted new rules to improve working conditions on digital labour platforms, particularly regarding employment status and the use of algorithmic management.

The European Trade Union Confederation (ETUC) has called the 2024 Platform Work Directive ‘a policy milestone’ and ‘a testament to the resilience of collective efforts’.

Discussion with Tea Jarc, ETUC Confederal Secretary, and Silvia Rainone, ETUI Senior Researcher, about what exactly is in the Directive, what it took to get it passed, and what it means for the millions of people working through digital platforms today.

Further reading

⁠The EU Platform Work Directive | etui⁠

⁠Inevitable, vulnerable, unprofitable: an inquiry into food delivery platforms in Europe | etui⁠

⁠Digital labour platforms and migrant workers | etui⁠

⁠Exercising workers' rights in algorithmic management systems | etui⁠

⁠Juggling online gigs with offline jobs | etui⁠

⁠Collective bargaining in the platform economy | etui⁠

⁠The platform economy in Europe | etui⁠

⁠Platform Economy | ETUC⁠

The term ‘burnout’ has become a common one in recent times. But are we clear on what it really means and, even more importantly, exactly what causes it? The World Health Organization recently recognised it as an ‘occupational phenomenon’. So what should organisations be doing to prevent burnout or, at the very least, to address it when it does occur amongst their employees?

Discussion with Evangelia Demerouti, Professor of Work and Organizational Psychology at the Eindhoven University of Technology and co-author (with Niels Adaloudis) of the recent ETUI report ‘Addressing burnout in organisations’.

Further reading

Addressing burnout in organisations | etui

The fractions and burden of cardiovascular diseases and depression attributable to psychosocial work exposures in the European Union | etui

Psychosocial risks: a mounting crisis | etui

Psychosocial risks in the healthcare and long-term care sectors | etui

Recent years have arguably seen a ‘social turn’ in EU policymaking, with initiatives on minimum wages, pay transparency, platform work, corporate due diligence, and health and safety coming to fruition, amongst many others.

But in this moment of political change and uncertainty, can this 'social paradigm shift' be sustained?

Guests Bart Vanhercke, ETUI Research Director, and Sotiria Theodoropoulou, Head of Unit for 'European economic, employment and social policies', discuss the current state of play.

Further reading:

Benchmarking Working Europe 2024 | etui

Social policy in the European Union: state of play 2023 | etui

Industrial policy for quality jobs and a just transition | etui

Is the European Green Deal really leaving no-one behind? | etui

Dawn of a new era? | etui

The resurgence of the social dimension of the EU raises a number of questions: in what way and to what extent has the EU social dimension indeed been strengthened since the adoption of the EPSR? To what extent are newly adopted social policies actually likely to contribute to improving people’s lives, and in particular the lives of those who face precarious working or living conditions? What explains the broad political support of the centre-left and centre-right for this social turn?

Find out more in Transfer's latest issue on Social Europe

AI is now widely used to automate business processes and replace labour-intensive tasks while changing the skill demands for those that remain. How are AI-based tools deployed to monitor worker conduct and to automate HR management processes? Through the dual lens of comparative labour law and employment relations research, our guest investigate the role of collective bargaining and government policy in shaping strategies to deploy new digital and AI-based technologies at work.

More about the special issue: https://journals.sagepub.com/toc/trsa/29/1