Fire Investigation INFOCUS podcast

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In this episode recorded at IAAI ITC in St. Louis, Chasity talks with Eastern Kentucky University students about two research projects. One examines whether measuring the size of melted wire globules can help distinguish arc damage from melting in common 10, 12, and 14 gauge wires. The other explores how repeated plugging and unplugging may contribute to mechanical fatigue in receptacles and, potentially, overheating. Neither project offers a conclusive field tool yet; both point to further testing and ways to build more measurable evidence for fire investigators.

The episode also highlights IAAI Student Committee meetings and student membership opportunities, with information at firearson.com. The hosts share upcoming chapter training events, then speak with Tim Costa of ITL Solutions about CleanSpace powered air purifying respirators, including updated protective kits with charging cases. The episode closes with a Fire Department Coffee reminder: use the link in the podcast’s Instagram bio and code INFOCUS for 10% off.

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Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens recap the California Conference of Arson Investigators’ fall conference, including live demonstrations, electrical training, and the strong turnout. They look ahead to the February conference, which will feature a live Scientific Advisory Work Group presentation and sessions on confirmation bias, fire dynamics, and defense challenges. They also share a short NFPA 921 refresher on the difference between a vapor and a gas.

Guest Melinda Rios joins the conversation to discuss how crime and intelligence analysis can support fire investigation. Drawing on her experience in law enforcement and her new role as a fire marshal, she explains how mapping, timelines, phone records, and other data can help investigators identify patterns, guide follow-up, support prevention, and organize case information. The group also discusses the limits of cell-site data, the need to consider alternative explanations and corroborating evidence, and how defense questions can strengthen investigative work.

The episode also shares information about IAAI student meetings and upcoming chapter trainings. Sponsor updates include an ITL Solutions offer for CleanSpace filters and a Fire Department Coffee discount for listeners.

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What can fire alarms, sprinkler systems, and suppression equipment reveal about a fire? In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens explore NFPA 921 (2024), Chapter 8: Active Fire Protection Systems, and how these systems can help investigators reconstruct fire timelines, evaluate fire spread, and test origin and cause hypotheses. They discuss fire alarm event logs, smoke and heat detection, projected beam detectors, linear heat detection, acoustic soot agglomeration, and water-based and non-water-based suppression systems. The conversation also examines sprinkler performance, changes in building use, equipment placement, and the importance of comparing system design documents with actual installations. Throughout the episode, Scott and Chasity emphasize preserving electronic data and physical evidence, recognizing potential spoliation issues, and involving a qualified fire protection engineer or technician. Plus, hear field updates, Chasity’s experience using a CleanSpace half mask, training opportunities, and a terminology challenge: What is the difference between a vapor and a gas?

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What can a fire investigator learn from the remains of a burned smart outlet? In this short episode, Chasity and Scott speak with Eastern Kentucky University students Madison Hall and Elias Phipps at the 2026 IAAI International Training Conference in St. Louis. They discuss their research on identifying Wi-Fi-enabled smart outlets after a fire and distinguishing their components from those of standard AC adapters.

Madison and Elias burned and disassembled devices, then documented the surviving components with photographs and X-rays. In their experiments, relays and Wi-Fi chips remained recognizable even after substantial heat exposure. They explain how those components could help an investigator identify a smart outlet in a fire scene and decide what additional evidence to examine.

The conversation also explores why identification matters: a smart outlet can remotely supply power to a device that has already been left switched on. The students discuss a case from Sweden involving a remotely activated soldering iron, along with the potential value and challenges of obtaining device activity records. Their work offers a starting point for recognizing emerging technology in fire investigations and points to further research on the data these devices may retain.

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens reflect on the 25th remembrance of September 11, 2001. Chasity shares what she remembers as a first grader in Kentucky, while Scott recalls watching the attacks as an off-duty firefighter and the lasting changes they brought to fire-service security, training, and emergency preparedness.

Scott and Chasity also catch up on listener messages from aspiring and working fire investigators. They discuss the importance of continuing education, developing specialized knowledge, and remaining passionate about professional growth. The conversation includes Scott’s current coursework in electrical theory and fire-dynamics modeling, along with upcoming fire-investigation conferences and training opportunities across the country.

The episode then turns to practical lessons from the field. Chasity explains how a dated hardware-store sticker on a receptacle helped establish when electrical work may have occurred after the occupants initially reported that no work had been completed. Scott shares lessons from a recent deposition, including the importance of carefully reviewing investigative reports, openly correcting errors, answering only the question asked, and understanding the differences between depositions, preliminary hearings, and courtroom testimony.

The hosts close with discussions about intumescent fire-protection materials, electrical wiring date markings, the National Electrical Code, and emerging uses of artificial intelligence in fire investigation. They emphasize that AI-generated information must be verified against authoritative sources and explain why sandboxing AI to trusted fire-science resources can improve accuracy and reliability.

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens continue their NFPA 921 series with a breakdown of Chapter 7: Building Systems. They discuss how building design, construction methods, materials, concealed spaces, passive fire protection, and structural components can influence fire development, spread, and collapse. The conversation covers balloon-frame and platform-frame construction, lightweight wood trusses, fire barriers, steel protection methods including intumescent coatings, and the importance of comparing original plans with as-built conditions. They also explore heating systems, fuel types, flame sensors, rollout switches, and why fire-damaged equipment should be properly documented and preserved rather than operated at the scene. Along the way, Scott and Chasity share real-world fire service and investigation experiences and highlight practical resources such as NIST for continued fire investigation training and research.

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens sit down with Fire Investigator Dennis Zigrang of Fire Cause Analysis of Idaho for a wide-ranging conversation about the realities of fire investigation across different environments, career paths, and investigative challenges.

Dennis shares his journey from a 25-year career with the Long Beach Police Department into fire investigation, private-sector work, and eventually owning his own fire investigation company. He discusses the steep learning curve investigators face when transitioning from public to private fire investigation and why strong mentorship, documentation, scene methodology, and continuing education are essential throughout an investigator’s career.

The conversation takes investigators into an environment many rarely encounter: fire scene examinations in extreme cold and snow. Dennis explains how snow can affect scene processing, equipment and battery life, evidence recovery, transportation, hydration, and even the timing of a joint examination. From using leaf blowers to remove fresh snow to heating structures, packing specialized equipment for Alaska, and hauling evidence through deep snow, the episode offers practical lessons for conducting safe and effective cold-weather fire investigations.

The discussion also explores Dennis’s course “Unusual Ignition Sequences: Thinking Outside the Box and Outside the Origin,” including electrical failures, open neutrals, solar radiation, reflection and refraction, and self-heating fires. Dennis and the hosts examine why investigators must look beyond the obvious area of origin and understand the actual failure sequence that brought the heat source and fuel together.

Dennis also discusses the science and misconceptions surrounding self-heating and spontaneous ignition, including stained rags, oxidation, microbial activity, mulch, and potting soil, emphasizing the importance of research and scientifically supported conclusions.

Finally, the group explores how investigators are beginning to incorporate artificial intelligence and transcription technology into their workflows. Dennis shares how he uses Plaud, custom AI templates, voice dictation, and ChatGPT to organize interviews, build timelines, document scene observations, and streamline administrative portions of reports—while stressing that investigators still have to verify the information and remain responsible for the final work product.

From extreme-weather scene examinations and unusual ignition scenarios to AI, mentorship, documentation, and the differences between public and private fire investigation, this episode is packed with practical insight for both new and experienced fire investigators.

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In this short episode, Chasity and Scott sit down with Eastern Kentucky University seniors Reuben Jasinski and Kaitlyn Cully at the IAAI International Training Conference to discuss their fire research involving refrigerators using R-600a butane refrigerant. Their study examined whether fire investigators can distinguish between fires originating inside the refrigerator compressor compartment and fires originating externally based on resulting fire patterns and component damage. The students discuss burn testing, compressor data plate damage, refrigerator compartment fire behavior, door pressurization, refrigerant-line failures, and how the additional fuel from butane can influence fire development and observed patterns. They also explain what their findings could mean for determining the area of origin during refrigerator fire investigations and identify opportunities for future research involving realistic kitchen environments and additional fuel loads.

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In this episode, recorded live at the IAAI International Training Conference in St. Louis, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens sit down with Brazilian fire-safety professionals Colonel Paiva and Rogerio Lin to discuss the transformation of fire investigation in Brazil. Paiva shares how international training, IAAI certifications, NFPA guidance, and his commitment to accurate and thorough investigations helped expand formal fire investigation programs from only a few of Brazil’s 27 state fire departments to approximately 16. The conversation explores the differences between the Brazilian and United States fire-service and legal systems, the challenges of applying international certifications across different governmental structures, and the work underway to create Brazilian fire-investigation standards that reflect the country’s construction practices, language, culture, and regulatory system. Roger explains how passive fire protection, compartmentation, fire-resistant construction, material performance, and fire investigation work together to identify failures and improve future building safety. The guests also discuss emerging risks involving electric vehicles and thermal runaway, the need for standardized national fire data, cooperation between fire departments and law enforcement, and the role passion and persistence play in creating lasting change within the profession. The episode also includes updates from ITL Solutions and CleanSpace Respirators, information about the IAAI Evidence Collection Technician practical examination at the CCAI Conference, upcoming California Fire Investigator 1A, 1B, and 1C courses, and additional fire-investigation training opportunities across the country.

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What can burned human remains reveal about a fatal fire—and what evidence may be permanently lost when a body is moved too soon?

Recorded live at the IAAI International Training Conference in St. Louis, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens sit down with forensic anthropologist Dr. Elaine Pope to discuss the investigation and recovery of human remains from fatal fire scenes. Dr. Pope explains how forensic anthropology, fire investigation, law enforcement, and medicolegal death investigation must work together to accurately interpret the scene, identify victims, preserve evidence, and provide answers to families.

The conversation explores how the human body burns in vehicle fires, structure fires, outdoor fires, and intentionally set fires; how burned bones can resemble drywall and other fire debris; and how fire patterns on the body may help investigators understand fire exposure and movement. Dr. Pope also explains why investigators should treat the body as evidence, leave it in place until it can be properly documented, and avoid assuming a fire death is accidental before the autopsy and complete investigation are finished.

The episode also recaps the Central California Forensic Fatal Fire Death Investigation Academy, addresses the long-standing myth that the human skull explodes during a fire, and provides practical guidance for investigators approaching their first fatal fire scene.

We Train Frequently:

Georgia IAAI Conference — Savannah, Georgia: July 27–30, 2026

Tennessee IAAI Conference: August 17–20, 2026

• Includes AI for Fire Investigators

Hawaii IAAI Conference: August 26–28, 2026

Nebraska Chapter Annual Fire Conference: September 15–17, 2026

IAAI Evidence Collection Technician Practical — CCAI Conference: October 8, 2026

Fire Investigator 1A — Hayward, California: September 14–18, 2026

Fire Investigator 1B — Hayward, California: October 26–30, 2026

Fire Investigator 1C — Hayward, California: November 16–20, 2026

Link to the Hayward training:

https://my.cheddarup.com/c/fire-investigation-courses-60744/items

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens sit down with Founder Jesse Sprague, Director of Research & Intelligence Phinehas Lampman, and Software Developer and Data Scientist Kathleen Matos from Axon Intelligence to talk about the future of wildland fire investigation, origin and cause documentation, data science, remote sensing, AI, drone imagery, and fire investigation technology. The conversation explores how the new app EchoSpectra is helping investigators organize field data, document wildland fire indicators, track GOA/SOA development, export maps and photo logs, and strengthen the scientific method through better case organization. The group also discusses how computer vision, mapping, drone-based imagery, and pattern recognition may shape the future of both wildland and structure fire investigations, while also touching on firefighter health, smoke exposure, Valley Fever, and the need for better respiratory protection in the field.

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In this episode, Scott and Chasity catch up on fan mail, training opportunities, report writing, and the importance of verifying information in the age of AI before turning the mic over to their conversation with Fire Investigator and Student Committee Chair Sawyer Garriques at the 2026 IAAI ITC.

Sawyer shares how the IAAI Student Committee is helping bridge the gap between students and the fire investigation profession through mentorship, networking, research opportunities, student memberships, and the newly developed student sponsorship program. The conversation highlights why students should get involved early, how attending the ITC can open career doors, and why the industry has a responsibility to support the next generation of investigators.

The episode also covers the value of student research projects, poster presentations, strong networking skills, and the role chapters, businesses, and individual members can play in supporting students through scholarships, internships, training opportunities, and donations.

Students interested in fire investigation are encouraged to reach out, ask questions, and take advantage of the resources available through the IAAI Student Committee.

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In this episode, Chasity Owens and Scott Kuhlman are LIVE again at IAAI International Training Conference with a live conversation featuring Fire Investigator and IAAI's 2026 Investigator of the Year Adam Holloway of Genesis Forensics and Fire Investigator John Hill of National Fire Experts. Both Adam and John are Eastern Kentucky University graduates who entered the fire investigation industry from the private sector and now help develop the next generation of investigators through internships, mentorship, and entry-level training programs. The conversation explores the challenges students face when trying to break into fire investigation, what employers should consider when building internship programs, and why real-world field exposure, strong methodology, communication skills, and persistence matter. They also discuss the importance of networking through local IAAI chapters, mentorship from experienced investigators, and how students can stand out in interviews by understanding fire dynamics, the scientific method, and the definition of fire. The episode also highlights upcoming fire investigation training opportunities, the “Can You Use It in a Sentence?” segment on thermoplastics, and Adam’s work with the IAAI Marine Fire Investigation Endorsement Program, including how the hands-on course uses real burned vessels, interviews, case studies, and origin-and-cause presentations to prepare investigators for marine fire scenes.

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LIVE from the IAAI ITC in St. Louis, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens sit down with IAAI Immediate Past President David Bridges and IAAI Current President Devin Palmer for a powerful conversation about leadership, training, mentorship, and the future of the fire investigation profession. David shares how his career evolved from law enforcement and accelerant detection canine work into becoming a technically trained attorney focused on civil fire and explosion litigation. Devin walks listeners through his path from forensic science student to ATF Certified Fire Investigator, National Response Team supervisor, and now IAAI President. Together, they discuss the importance of community, professional development, chapter support, student engagement, international outreach, and expanding fire investigation training for public sector, private sector, insurance, legal, and forensic professionals. The episode also highlights new IAAI initiatives, member benefits, regional training opportunities, insurance-focused education, and the value of bringing the next generation into fire investigation through hands-on learning and mentorship.

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LIVE at the International Association of Arson Investigators ITC 2026, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens sit down with fire investigator Nicole Brewer for one of the podcast’s most insightful conversations yet. Nicole shares her journey from firefighter to fire investigator, her transition from public to private sector investigations, and how advanced education through Eastern Kentucky University and Oklahoma State University shaped her approach to forensic fire analysis. The discussion dives deep into scientific methodology, courtroom testimony, cognitive bias in fire investigations, and practical strategies investigators can use to strengthen their origin and cause determinations.

The episode also explores the growing role of cognitive bias awareness in forensic science and how fire investigators can minimize unconscious influence during investigations. Nicole introduces her “Bias Minimization Worksheet” and explains how techniques like linear sequential unmasking and structured hypothesis testing can improve investigative reliability, courtroom confidence, and case defensibility. From real trial experiences and grand jury testimony to SAW (Scientific Advisory Workgroup) case reviews, this episode delivers valuable insight for both new and seasoned investigators looking to sharpen their methodology and elevate their professionalism in the field.

Bias Minimization Worksheet link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/1e9rUVqyJK9a8HzFj-8w6b-WgyQ9Jt5rB?usp=sharing

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Live from IAAI ITC 2026 in St. Louis, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens sit down with Dr. Greg Gorbett to talk fire investigation, research-based tools, and the future of the profession. The conversation covers the U.S. NRC Fire Dynamics Tools spreadsheets, heat release rate calculations, flashover correlations, and how investigators can use empirical data in defensible origin and cause work. Greg also discusses his recent election to the IAAI Board of Directors, the need for advanced training, competency testing, proficiency exams, NFPA 1321, and the growing importance of standardized processes in fire investigation. The episode also explores digital image analysis, line of demarcation interpretation, uncertainty in conclusions, courtroom confidence, and why “forensic honesty” matters when presenting fire investigation findings.

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In this episode, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens break down real-world court cases where fire investigators were challenged, excluded, or dismantled under legal scrutiny. From Daubert challenges and summary judgment to spoliation of evidence and product liability battles involving companies like Amazon, this episode dives deep into what can make—or break—an expert witness in court. Learn how improper methodology, lack of qualifications, confirmation bias, and failure to follow NFPA 921 can cost a case, and how to protect yourself by conducting every scene as if you’re headed straight to trial. Whether you’re a seasoned investigator or just entering the field, this episode delivers critical insights to strengthen your reports, testimony, and credibility in the courtroom.

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In this episode, hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens continue their deep dive into NFPA 921 Chapter 6 with Part 2: Fire Patterns.

The episode blends real-world case studies with foundational fire science, reinforcing how fire investigators interpret patterns, validate origin hypotheses, and apply the scientific method in the field.

Listeners are first brought into two compelling case studies: a hybrid vehicle fire with origin traced to the rear hatchback area despite severe damage, and a commercial fire involving a lithium-ion battery-powered blower where pattern interpretation was later confirmed through video evidence. These examples highlight the importance of pattern recognition, corroboration, and resisting premature conclusions.

The discussion then transitions into core concepts from NFPA 921 Chapter 6, including fire effects, fire pattern generation, and pattern geometry. The hosts emphasize that fire patterns are not standalone proof of origin but must be analyzed alongside fire dynamics, heat release rate, ventilation, and witness statements.

Key learning points include:

• Fire patterns reveal movement and intensity, not cause by themselves
• Misinterpretation risks (e.g., “pour patterns”) and the importance of avoiding bias
• The role of heat release rate and ventilation as primary drivers of pattern development
• Practical application of the scientific method for origin determination

The episode also explores legal-style questioning, helping investigators strengthen courtroom articulation and defend their methodology under scrutiny.

To wrap up, the hosts introduce upcoming training opportunities and reinforce the importance of continued education, collaboration, and critical thinking in the evolving field of fire investigation.

Alabama Chapter IAAI – 2026 Free Spring Training (April 7, 2026 – Decatur, AL)

International Association of Arson Investigators ITC Conference (April 26–30, 2026 – St. Louis, MO)

Montana IAAI Annual Training Conference (May 12–14, 2026 – Billings, MT)

Wyoming IAAI Annual Conference (June 10–12, 2026 – Laramie, WY)

Georgia IAAI Annual Training Conference (July 27–30, 2026 – Savannah, GA)

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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens kick off their discussion of NFPA 921 Chapter 6 by breaking down one of the most important foundations in fire investigation: fire effects, and then fire pattens next episode. Using real-world deposition questions and courtroom-style challenges, they show why investigators must be able to clearly explain concepts like fire plume development, truncated cone patterns, U patterns, clean burn, oxidation, calcination, spalling, and more. The episode blends technical training with practical field insight, including stories from recent burn cell exercises, lessons from student investigations, and a blunt reminder that experience alone does not replace a solid grasp of the science. Scott and Chasity walk through key fire effects identified in NFPA 921, explain why these concepts matter in scene analysis and legal testimony, and highlight how misunderstanding or overstating pattern interpretation can seriously damage an investigator’s credibility. They also touch on upcoming training opportunities, fire death investigation work, industry events, hot surface ignition versus autoignition temperature, and the importance of continual study in a field where the basics can make or break a case.

Training:

Alabama Chapter 2026 Free Spring Training — April 7, 2026 | Decatur, Alabama

Montana IAAI 2026 Annual Training Conference — May 12–14, 2026 | Billings, Montana

Advanced Fire Dynamics at Eastern Kentucky University — May 19–20, 2026 | Richmond, Kentucky

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Recorded live at the California Conference of Arson Investigators (CCAI), this episode features Fire Investigator and researcher Keith Parker for a wide-ranging (and very real) conversation about what it looks like to apply the scientific method in fire investigation—especially when the ignition source is gone and the pressure to “have an answer” is high. We dig into affirmative evidence vs. negative corpus, why timelines can be some of the strongest support for (or against) a hypothesis, and the danger zone of assumptions sneaking into your data when you’re convinced you already know what happened. Keith shares how his wildland experience evolved from frustration with wiped-out origins to building better training and getting involved in peer-reviewed wildland fire pattern research, including collaboration and mentorship from Dr. Vito Babrauskas. If you’ve ever wondered how confident we can be in wildland indicators under extreme conditions (wind, dry fuels, high intensity), or how wildland O&C is still maturing the way structure investigation did pre-NFPA 921, this one’s for you. Plus: conference updates, what we’re teaching next, how to get involved with IAAI as a student, and the return of “Can you use it in a sentence?” with a practical definition challenge to sharpen your investigator brain.

• National Wildland Fire Conference — April 24–26, 2026 — Oceanside (North County San Diego), California
• IAAI ITC (International Training Conference) — April 27–May 1, 2026
• Georgia Fire Investigators Association Spring Conference — March 16–19, 2026 — Marietta (Cobb), Georgia
• Alabama Chapter FREE Spring Training — April 7, 2026 — Decatur, Alabama
• Montana IAAI Annual Training Conference — May 12–14, 2026 — Billings, Montana

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