Gambling With an Edge

Mark Billings — author of The Ultimate Edge — joins Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin to talk about beating blackjack in the 1980s: shuffle tracking, hole-carding, and computers strapped to players' legs. Mark tells the stories behind the plays, from the "slicing and dicing" cut-card move to the shoe computer busted at the Desert Inn — including the gaming agent who went on TV and completely made up how they caught the team. Plus the time Richard's brother Jake had to stand up in a casino and swear he wasn't a card counter. Originally aired April 4, 2013.

Show Notes
[00:00] Throwback episode context
[02:03] News about a structuring charge
[04:31] Munchkin’s brother, Jake, was asked if he was a card counter
[07:04] Introduction of Mark Billings, advantage player, and author of The Ultimate Edge
[10:03] Slicing and dicing hand cuts
[12:12] Shuffle tracking with computers
[16:49] The small world of card counting in Las Vegas and Atlantic City
[18:25] Sharing advantage play secrets
[21:10] Shuffle tracking computers in shoes
[25:13] Casino eavesdropping on in-room phone calls
[27:45] Building shoes for the computers
[30:00] Richard’s shoe making story
[31:50] The Ultimate Edge method, computers and video laws
[38:34] Does Mark feel like his teams caused device laws to change?
[42:07] How is blackjack different today?
GWAE Episodes Referenced:
https://youtu.be/Wj1DTHlkaIA
https://youtu.be/PrrFP3-XwB0

This week we sit down with Gina Fiore to discuss her new book, "Advantage Player: A Memoir of Blackjack, Backrooms, and Beginnings".

Get the book - https://amzn.to/3W7mZyL

Show Notes

This is an episode that originally aired in 2013. It has been reedited.

They were Christians. They counted cards. And they took millions from casinos. Colin Jones co-founded the Church Team — the blackjack team featured in the documentary Holy Rollers — and went on to found BlackjackApprenticeship.com, where he's trained a generation of card counters. In this episode: the disguises (including Hollywood makeup tricks), how the team tested new players, card-counting training and apps, and what life looked like after the documentary.

Show Notes

[00:00] Notes on editing
[00:45] Playing in disguise
[08:38] Introduction of Colin Jones from http://blackjackapprenticeship.com/
[09:10] More on playing in disguise, using makeup, accessories, mannerisms, etc
[14:14] Blackjack http://apprenticeship.com/ content, training, and forum
[19:52] Does Colin still play blackjack?
[21:20] Can people make a living counting cards?
[23:55] Casino 411, a Yelp for card counters
[29:53] Developing a Google Glass app
[34:01] Blackjack bootcamps

Links:
https://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/
lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge

Many casinos are resetting slot machines after players have built up free spins or other bonus features. We speak with Buddy Frank, a former slot director who contacted the Nevada Gaming control Board about this. In addition we talk about some of the new things Buddy saw at the annual Global Gaming Conference.

Show Notes
[00:00] Introduction of Buddy Frank, experienced slot and casino operations executive
[00:51] Are casinos illegally resetting slot machines?
[05:57] Evidence of Money Balls being reset
[09:34] Checking Phoenix Link reset numbers, repeated RAM clearing
[12:53] Lack of consequences for casino corporations that cheat players
[16:50] G2E, facial recognition, eConnect, prediction markets
[23:00] Lack of persistent state slot machines at G2E, new version of Sigma Derby,
[26:45] Roll to Win Craps
[29:53] Marble Run by Interblock, wide area progressive slots
[32:02] New offerings from Zitro and Light and Wonder
[33:28] Buy a bonus features, Buffalo Power Play
[35:52] Higher W2G limit impact on ambiance and Blueberi Gaming's jackpot speaker system
[38:42] Self pay for W2G's, $1999 jackpot machines
[42:04] Ainsworth Playboy theme, popular themes, and copycats
[45:00] Licensing fees for Dragon Link versus Spooky Link
[47:20] Skill-based slot machines
[49:32] Recommended: Ann Patchett's Bel Canto, Art Manteris' The Bookie

Links:
http://cdcgaming.com/writers/buddy-frank
http://willyallison.com/post/white-paper

Recommended:
Ann Patchett's Bel Canto - https://amzn.to/4yjWGDf
Art Manteris' The Bookie - https://amzn.to/4hFHObM

Laurance Scott has been beating roulette for over 30 years. He was first on our show 13 years ago. (Link below to that episode) He is now retiring, and joins us to talk about his start and how the game has changed.

https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/4082481490083758475/1536140403132768688Show Notes[00:00] Introduction of roulette player, Laurance Scott
[00:48] Getting started in roulette
[06:00] Playing Huxley wheels
[07:27] Roulette teams
[09:12] Device laws outside of the U.S
[10:32] Mistakes made by beginner roulette players
[15:40] Surveillance of wheel watchers
[18:24] Timing back door
[23:00] Playing in France
[29:04] Playing in Macau
[36:48] Playing biased wheels and distracting dealers
[41:56] Contacting surgeons to implant a computer
[47:12] Games and heat in Las Vegas

Links:

Laurance Scott episode from 2013
https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/4082481490083758475/9122198373771667070

Interview with Keith and Marty Taft
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/interview-with-keith-and-marty-taft/?srsltid=AfmBOooeWKDCJlJPx-KphISabY621YkT1Qh7Yt_Vth2YZfdnN4j6JxHZhttps://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/interview-with-keith-and-marty-taft/?srsltid=AfmBOooeWKDCJlJPx-KphISabY621YkT1Qh7Yt_Vth2YZfdnN4j6JxHZ

https://www.mezzobistro.com/

Checkmate by Ben Mezrich https://amzn.to/4ce7xq1

Milkshake lost all his money following a tout, and it set him off on a journey to figure out how to win money sports betting.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of sports better, Milkshake
[00:38] Milkshake’s path into advantage play
[03:09] Top-down betting and going to BetBash 2
[05:25] Moving for professional bettors
[09:38] Odds screens, arbitrage, limiting, and nuances of top-down
[15:42] Why did $600 move a major market?
[16:45] What percentage of Milkshake’s action today is moving versus modeling?
[18:24] Making in prediction markets
[19:10] Evaluating potential movers
[21:57] Betting at kiosks
[24:50] Source of truth
[26:44] Setting up partnerships
[28:22] Camouflage bets, priming accounts
[30:45] Faking the market
[32:28] Should winning accounts go dormant before being limited?
[33:43] Shifting the closing line to avoid CLV
[34:51] Milkshake's book and podcast recommendations
[36:10] Using sportsbook bonuses

[39:29] How will Milkshake's betting evolve over the next few years?
[41:54] Relevant knowledge of sports when top-down betting
[43:09] In-game betting
[44:17] Can value be found in a team's losing streaks?

Links:
http://x.com/BeBetterBettors
http://x.com/halfkelly
Logic of Sports Betting by Ed-Miller https://amzn.to/4x6Wx67

Charles Star is a self-described podcast slut. He went from lawyer to comedian and is now on a quest to do 53 podcasts in 52 weeks.

Show Notes
[00:00] Introduction of Charles Small
[00:36] Podcast appearances bet
[03:25] No Homework and City Saint, Country Saint podcasts
[05:57] Transitioning from law into comedy
[14:07] Leaving standup
[15:58] Podcasting
[17:08] Gambling and sports better stories
[20:33] Legal career after temp jobs
[26:07] Civil asset forfeiture
[29:11] The Moth and strange legal cases
[34:16] OST realistic legal shows and movies
[40:22] Travel stories
[46:15] Favorite Las Vegas restaurant that is not in a casino

Links:
http://nohomework.website
http://soundcloud.com/hwpod
http://davidhill.substack.com/p/introducing-american-gambler
http://nakamurayalv.com

Elizabeth Reichelt seems to choose the riskiest professions. I don't mean dangerous, I mean the chance of success is tiny, but the payoff can be huge. She went from dancer, to stand up comic, to television writer.

Show Notes
[00:00] Introduction of Elizabeth Reichelt
[00:38] High risk and high reward professions
[03:09] Identity crises
[06:10] Moving to Los Angeles
[08:25] Passion for social work
[11:06] Playwriting
[16:53] Improv, writing sketches, and stand up comedy
[21:46] Assistant writer for Inventing Anna
[21:24] Becoming a writer
[26:47] Research on Bridgerton
[27:56] Cowriting an episode
[30:32] AI effects on writers
[31:32] Writing for networks versus streaming services
[34:23] Working while on hiatus, networking, and agents
[39:34] How can listeners contact Elizabeth?
[40:06] Advice for aspiring writers
[40:44] Favorite restaurant in Las Vegas that is not in a casino

Links:
http://Instagram.com/lizreichelt
http://Mobettahs.com
http://Doublezeropie.com

Life is a Gamble explores those times in life where someone must take a big risk, or when life deals you an unexpected hand. How do we decide how much risk is worth it?

Life is a Gamble explores those times in life where someone must take a big risk, or when life deals you an unexpected hand. How do we decide how much risk is worth it?

Our guest today is Jake Jacobs, on to talk about his new book, "Have Bets Will Travel." The book is an autobiography focused on his 40+ years as a professional gambler.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Jake Jacobs, author of Have Bets, Will Travel
[00:53] How did Jake start gambling?
[05:02] Writing about gambling adjacent experiences
[07:56] Deciding on the title of Have Bets, Will Travel
[09:29] Jake's gambling post-1992 and horseracing stories
[14:02] Legally using computers in Atlantic City
[17:53] Playing a blackjack memory game with Bill Benter
[31:05] Taking a lie detector tie after theft allegations
[38:52] Tropicana boss asks Jake if he is a card counter
[42:55] Wearing disguises
[44:09] A Korean bar girl goes to the wrong room
[47:05] Favorite restaurant in Las Vegas that is not in a casino?

Links:
Get the book - https://amzn.to/4otrFct
http://Lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge
http://Lotusofsiamlv.com

Our guests today are Ben Rosenthal, author of the new book, "Breaking The Slot Code," and Anthony Curtis, the publisher of the book, and the new website slotslayers.com. The book, and the site teach players how to actually get an edge at some slot machines.

Show Notes

00:00] Slotslayers.com and contact info
[00:42] Introduction of Ben Rosenthal, author of Breaking the Slot Code
[01:22] When did Ben start gambling?
[02:09] Why did Ben decide to share advantage slot information?
[04:37] How is Ben’s slot content different than other advantage slot sites?
[06:24] Slotslayers.com pricing
[08:16] Analyzing new games
[09:30] Will the casinos overreact to slot hustlers?
[13:14] Recreational players learning about persistence slots
[14:56] Why slot pros are good for casinos on The Strip
[20:03] Is Ben concerned about being identified by casinos?
[17:07] Slot hustling full time or as a side gig
[23:15] Dealing with machine squatters
[24:53] Casinos’ slot hustling countermeasures in Las Vegas
[26:10] Casinos resetting banked meters
[31:31] Gaming rules for bubble roulette
[32:35] James Grosjean’s new book, The Ultimate Report: Lockdowm Edition
[34:59] Favorite Las Vegas restaurant not in a casino

Links:
Breaking the Slot Code - https://amzn.to/4vt4v8e
https://LasVegasAdvisor.com
https://Slotslayers.com
https://x.com/RWM21
https://Reddwarflv.com
https://Scoundrelspubii.com
https://Madmattys.com

Today our guest is Dan Abrams. He's on to talk about his new book, "Sharp Money". The book is about poker, sports betting, and investing.

Show Notes

[00:00] introduction of Dan Abrams, sports bettor, poker player, and author of Sharp Money
[00:34] Dan’s start in poker
[01:35] Studying Razz
[05:58] Razz coaching and educational teaching videos
[09:38] Poker players famously losing money betting sports
[11:01] Rationale for over-betting your bankroll
[15:49] Increasing expected growth vs increasing expected value
[22:44] Hedging and arbitrage in financial markets
[27:40] Root unit staking system
[35:05] How do sports bettors know when they have an advantage?
[36:46] Indications of edge in financial markets
[39:42] Calculating edge ex-ante, bottom-up vs top-down betting
[44:15] Will Dan play in the WSOP?
[44:42] Sharp Money’s intended audience

Links:
http://GamblingWithAnEdge.com
http://x.com/DoctorRazzWSOP

Books Referenced:
Sharp Money by Dan Abrams - https://amzn.to/4uyZTgX
But How Much Did You Lose? by Dan Abrams - https://amzn.to/43ktdvw
Sklanksy on Poker by David Sklanksy - https://amzn.to/4uYanpT

My guest today is Andrew Wimhurst, author of the new book, "Thieving Bastards True Confessions of the World’s Greatest Cheats."

Show Notes
[00:00] Introduction of Andrew Wimhurst, author of Thieving Bastards: True Confessions of the World’s Greatest Cheats
[00:57] Thirty years of book planning, interviews, and similar books
[07:32] Transcribing and editing interviews
[11:42] Changes in the cheating landscape
[13:33] Cheating in poker, the NBA poker scandal, and the x-ray table
[17:44] Andrew’s ideas sequels or future books about cheating
[19:38] The card mechanic “Bobby Machines”
[23:48] Cheats who get out of the lifestyle
[28:46] Road hustlers from the 1940s to 1970s
[33:55] Running Razzle at a casino in Cuba
[38:47] Financial reporting laws and the digital trail for modern cheats
[40:17] Cheaters problems with discipline and greed
[41:42] Andrew’s background in magic, card mechanics, and dice moves
[45:53] Andrew’s contact info

Andrew's Links;
https://thecolddeckcompany.com
https://instagram.com/thecolddeckcompany

Books Referenced;
Thieving Bastards: by Andrew Wimhurst - https://amzn.to/4dS2s8x
Gambling Wizards by Richard Munchkin - https://amzn.to/4tLX7nB
Road Hustler by Robert C. Prus - out of print
Gambling Scams by Darwin Ortiz - https://amzn.to/4cchtkk
Havana Nocturne by T.J. English - https://amzn.to/4cfsy2w

Our guest today is Kit Chellel, author of the new book, "Lucky Devils: The True Story of Three Rebel Gamblers Who Beat the Odds and Changed the Game." The book profiles three legendary gamblers, Bill Benter, Rob Reitzen, and Bill Nelson.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Kit Chellel, author of Lucky Devils
[00:41] Kit’s background in journalism
[03:25] How did Lucky Devils come about?
[05:42] Meeting Rob Reitzen and Bill Nelson
[08:52] Gambling coverage in media
[10:44] The moment that computers revolutionized gambling
[13:13] Bill Benter and Alan Woods betting on horses in Hong Kong
[17:26] Rob Reitzen’s wearable tech and poker bots
[25:11] Banking tables in California
[25:32] Bill Nelson’s roulette play and the sports betting “The Computer Group”
[29:49] The FBI investigation into “The Computer Group”
[31:31] Roulette advantage players subculture
[34:36] Biased roulette wheels and design countermeasures
[35:32] The never ending war between casinos and advantage players
[38:56] The genesis of the title Lucky Devils
[40:07] Will Kit write about other gamblers?
[41:43] How can listeners contact Kit?
[42:47] Kit’s favorite resistant in Las Vegas that is not in a casino

Get Lucky Devils - https://amzn.to/48c5PTU

Links:

https://Bloomberg.com/authors/AQgXoqAi4I0/kit-chellel

https://X.com/KitChellel

https://Theoriginallindomichoacan.com

Our guest today is Antonino De Rosa, also known as "Ant." Ant went from professional Magic the Gathering player to working for Pinnacle sports book and from there became a professional sports bettor.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of sports bettor, Antonio De Rosa
[00:42] Playing Magic The Gathering professionally
[04:56] Comparing Magic variance and skills to gambling?
[08:29] Getting a job at Pinnacle
[12:07] NBA totals at Pinnacle
[14:05] Dealing with losses, risk management
[17:57] Bad beats
[20:39] Leaving Pinnacle for Plannatech
[23:29] Becoming a bettor
[27:04] Market efficiency, manipulation, limiting players, etc
[32:34] New female accounts
[33:49] Identifying sharp play
[36:44] BetBash story
[39:37] Life lessons from gambling
[42:15] Favorite non-casino restaurant in Vegas

Books Referenced:
Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

We have 3 guests today. Blair Rodman, Anthony Curtis, and Frank B. They are coauthors of the new book All About Sports Betting.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Blair Rodman, Anthony Curtis, and Frank B., authors of All About Sports Betting: The Definitive Guide
[00:42] What makes this book so unique?
[01:55] The genesis of All About Sports Betting
[05:59] Prop bets, parlays, same game parlays, and teasers
[10:27] QR codes within the book that link to additional information
[13:17] Violence in Puerto Vallarta
[15:37} Touts
[18:33] Bottom up, top down, and modeling
[24:05] Evolution of sports betting markets, future editions of the book
[25:24] Prediction markets
[29:39] Betting splits and other useless statistics
[31:49] Understanding variance and related behavioral biases
[38:42] Offshore sportsbooks, betting on credit, posting up, and settling up
[43:33] Optimal use of bonus bets at Caesars

Links:
All About Sports Betting - https://amzn.to/4kP8FU1
X.com/capjack2000
Unabated.com

Charlie is a sports bettor, slot player, and influencer. Charlie got scammed while making bets at a DraftKings kiosk at the Golden Nugget in Biloxi. It's a crazy story, not just the scam, but the way the casino, and Gaming Enforcement reacted.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of advantage player Chuck’s Lucks
[00:40] How did Chuck become an AP?
[04:14] Chuck’s second trip to Vegas and a $2500/spin slot
[07:16] Accounting for the W2Gs
[08:45] Getting scammed while betting sports in Mississippi
[22:55] YouTube influencers, deals, permission to record
[28:59] Plaza’s social media room and livestream
[31:32] Leverage as an influencer for deals, rebates, offsets, etc
[32:48] Filming AP slots, disguising entry points
[35:00] Editing videos and efficient use of content
[37:05] Selling influencer merchandise
[37:30] ChucksLuck and LeapingLizards channels
[37:59] Large jackpot payments and security concerns
[40:27] Favorite restaurant in Las Vegas that is not in a casino?

Related Links:
https://Lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/
https://Youtube.com/@LeapingLizardSlots
https://Youtube.com/@ChucksLuck777
https://Tacoselgordobc.com

This week we talked with long-time Vegas bookmaker Art Manteris. We discussed his new book, "The Bookie."

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Art Manteris, author of The Bookie
[00:47] Bookmakers from Western Pennsylvania
[01:47] Legendary bookmaker Uncle Jack Franzi
[05:21] Working at the mob-controlled Stardust
[08:27] Why did Art move to Las Vegas?
[09:46] Billy Walters stories
[11:57] PASPA, using computers across sportsbooks and racetracks
[15:18] Art's concerns about the expansion of gambling
[17:00] Frank Rosenthal at the Stardust
[18:18] Tony Spilatro
[20:26] Meeting Ron Sacco and sportsbooks in the Caribbean
[23:56] Pinnacle
[25:58] Sports betting in Nevada, climate and regulations
[29:53] Will "Refrigerator" Perry touchdown prop
[31:40] Negotiating huge prize fights in Vegas with Don King and Bob Arum
[34:13] Building the sportsbook at the Hilton
[35:27] Did Art sweat big positions and games?
[37:04] Setting open lines
[39:13] Being the first to post Super Bowl props
[40:44] Prop betting on college sports
[43:17] Circa sports book
[44:26] Parlays
[46:58] Using analytics to analyze payouts on parlays, teaser, and contests
[48:36] Did any bosses or owners want to take positions on games?
[52:23] Favorite restaurant in Las Vegas that is not in a casino?
[53:56] Can listeners contact Art on social media?

Get Art's book, "The Bookie" https://amzn.to/45nzCYp

Bob and Richard sit down with Gary Kondler to talk about taxes for gamblers after the big beautiful bill. It may not be as bad for some of us as we all thought. Spoiler alert - but some gamblers are just screwed.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of gambling tax expert Gary Kondler from Kondler & Associates
[01:36] W2Gs under the new tax law
[05:24] Reconciling W2s with session win/loss
[09:43] An example of casino gambling profit and discussion of similar case law
[18:04] Sports betting example
[20:46] Could a day of betting across different sportsbooks be considered a single session?
[24:28] Arbitrage bettors versus poker players
[27:06] What type of gambler would benefit from creating an S corp
[30:00] Casino generated win/loss statements
[31:54] Should clients file on time or file an extension?
[37:49] IRS layoffs
[40:57] How can listeners contact Gary?
[42:45] Brian Camp’s legal opinion
[44:55] Kalshi and other predictive markets
[47:48] Professional versus non-professional gambler
[51:34] Does filing with losses affect the professional gambler classification?

Links:
https://Kondlercpa.com

https://www.taxnotes.com/special-reports/gains-and-losses/taxation-gambling-after-obbba/2025/08/14/7sxhn

Today I speak with Norm Beck, a professional bridge player, magician, and friend about a bet he won, that turned out to be a big loser.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction of Norm Beck, bridge player and magician
[00:37] Norm’s biggest gamble
[06:40] Clever pre-surgery research strategy
[13:07] Hiring another doctor to translate information to family
[14:49] Getting into the gambling business
[20:30] Booking action on random events
[23:28] A billion dollar bet
[31:23] $500k bet on changing a tire
[33:45] “Win Your Line of Credit” blackjack tournament
[41:21] How to contact the show

Buzz Marconi moved to Las Vegas in the 1960s, and somehow transformed from an Italian kid from the south side of Chicago into Cowboy Buzz. It's a wild story. Check it out.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introduction on of Cowboy Buzz
[02:07] Moving to Las Vegas, working at The Stardust
[20:53] Brilliant mob casino strategies
[23;10] Tony Spilotro and Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal
[27:19] Becoming a shift boss Foxy's Firehouse
[29:28] Did certain dealers cheat players?
[31:06] A wild craps swing on credit and Milton Jaffe
[35:20] Milton Jaffe magic trick
[37:06] Opening a restaurant in Las Vegas
[41:09] Stories about dealers, cheating, and work ethic
[46:59] Cowboy Buzz's juice is revealed
[48:51] Naked women tanning at The Tropicana pool
[55:53] Becoming "Cowboy Buzz"
[1:02:07] Playing rugby age 73
[1:04:51] Meeting Max Rubin
[1:09:05] The first Blackjack Ball
[1:10:30] Being a clown diver at Caesars Palace