Human Centered podcast — Podcast Trove

The Cultural Dynamics of Political Order and Disorder

Episode 91

Show notes

Renowned comparative political scientist and former CASBS fellow (1999-2000) David Laitin has influenced generations of scholars through his investigations of the intricate interplay of cultural phenomena – such as language, religion, and ethnicity – with politics and political life across societies. The complex dynamics he reveals get to the roots of conflict, cooperation, identity formation as well as nation- and state-building. Laitin takes us on a sweeping tour of some of his career’s principal works, findings, and collaborations in conversation with 2025-26 CASBS fellow Olukunle Owolabi.

OLUKUNLE OWOLABI: Villanova faculty page | CASBS bio | Villanova article on six awards won by Kunle's 2023 book |

David Laitin books:
D. Laitin. Politics, Language, and Thought: The Somali Experience (Univ. of Chicago Press, 1977).

D. Laitin. Hegemony and Culture: The Politics of Religious Change among the Yoruba (Univ. Chicago Press, 1986).

D. Laitin and S. Samatar, Somalia: Nation in Search of a State (Westview Press, 1987).

D. Laitin. Language Repertoires and State Construction in Africa (Cambridge Univ. Press, 1992).

D. Laitin. Identity in Formation: The Russian-speaking Populations in the Near Abroad (Cornell Univ. Press, 1998).

D. Laitin. Nations, States and Violence (Oxford Univ. Press, 2007).

D. Laitin, C. Adida and M. Valfort. Why Mulsim Integration Fails in Christian-heritage Societies (Harvard Univ. Press, 2016).

D. Laitin and D. Christensen. African Politics since Independence: Order, Development and Democracy (Yale Univ. Press, 2019).

David Laitin articles referenced in this episode:
D. Laitin and R. Ramachandran, "The Historical Sources of Language Policy," Journal of Politics (2014).

D. Laitin and R. Ramachandran, "Language Policy and Socioeconomic Outcomes," Palgrave Handbook of Economics and Language (2026).

D. Laitin and R. Ramachandran, "Linguistic Diversity, Official Language Choice and Human Capital," Journal of Development Economics (2022).

D. Laitin, R. Ramachandran and S. Walter," The Legacy of Colonial Language Policies and their Impact on Student Learning: Evidence from an Experimental Program in Cameroon," Economic Development and Cultural Change (2019).

D. Laitin and R. Ramachandran, "Language Policy and Human Development," American Political Science Review (2016).

D. Laitin, J. Hainmueller, et al., "Breaking Down Barriers to Naturalization for Low-income Immigrants: Evidence from a Randomized Controlled Design," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2018).

D. Laitin, T. Gurr, et al., "Socially Relevant Ethnic Groups, Ethnic Structure and AMAR," Journal of Peace Research (2015).

D. Laitin and J. Fearon, "Civil War Non-onsets: The Case of Japan," Journal of Civilization Studies (2014)

D. Laitin, C. Adida and M. Valfort, "Identifying Barriers to Muslim Integration in France," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2010).

D. Laitin and J. Fearon, "Sons-of-the-soil, Migrants, and Civil War," World Development (2011).

D. Laitin and A. Krueger, "Kto-Kogo? A Cross-country Study of the Origins and Targets of Terrorism," in Terrorism, Economic Development, and Political Openness (Cambridge Univ. Press, 2008).

D. Laitin and E. Berman, "Religion, Terrorism and Public Goods: Testing the Club Model," Journal of Public Economics (2008).

D. Laitin and A. Krueger, "'Misunderestimating' Terrorism: The State Department's Big Mistake, Foreign Affairs (2004).

D. Laitin and J. Fearon, "Neotrusteeship and the Problem of Weak States," International Security (2004).

D. Laitin and J. Fearon, "Ethnicity, Insurgency, and Civil War," American Political Science Review (2003).

D. Laitin and J. Fearon, "Violence and the Social Construction of Ethnic Identities," International Organization (2000).

D. Laitin and J. Fearon, "Explaining Interethnic Cooperation," American Political Science Review (1996).

D. Laitin, "The Tower of Babel as a Coordination Game: Political Linguistics in Ghana," American Political Science Review (1994).

D. Laitin, S. Kalyvas and C Sole, "Language and the Construction of States: The Case of Catalonia in Spain," Politics and Society (1994).

D. Laitin, "Linguistic Conflict in Catalonia," Language Problems and Language Planning (1987).

David Laitin's full curriculum vitae accessible from his Stanford University faculty page.

Postscript
In the episode, David Laitin acknowledges the influence of two towering social scientists -- Clifford Geertz and Albert Hirschman -- both of whom were CASBS fellows (Geertz in 1958-59, Hirschman in 1968-69). Hirschman, notably, wrote the seminal book Exit, Voice, and Loyalty: Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States while at CASBS. In this podcast episode, David Laitin describes developing the argument for his book Identity in Formation by following the conceptual framework of the classic Hirschman book.

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Sep 25, 2026 58 min

Confronting Climate Migration Crises

Episode 90

Show notes

Political conflicts related to immigration are thorny enough on their own. The issues and challenges intensify once we add to the mix our warming planet and its relationship to migration, immigration, and human displacement. Two 2024-25 CASBS fellows – Maureen Eger, a sociologist of immigration, and Alice Farmer, a refugee lawyer specializing in climate change and displacement – discuss scholarly and policy dimensions of the climate migration landscape in conversation with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist John Markoff (CASBS fellow, 2017-18).

Maureen Eger: USC faculty page | personal website | Google Scholar page |

Alice Farmer: LinkedIn page |

Read John Markoff's latest book, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand (Penguin Random House, 2022). John's next book, expected in 2027, will be published by MIT Press.

Referenced in the episode or related works

L. Yang, M. Eger, and Link, eds. Migration Stigma: Understanding Prejudice, Discrimination, and Exclusion (MIT Press, 2024)

M. Eger and S Valdez, "From Radical Right to Neo-nationalist," European Political Scientist (2019)

M. Eger, M. Hjerm, and P. Velasquez, "What is the Liberalizing Potential of Higher Education? An Analysis of Academic Fields and Anti-Immigrant Sentiment Across 32 Countries," The British Journal of Sociology (2025)

M. O'Brien and M. Eger, "Suppression, Spikes, and Stigma: How COVID-19 Will Shape International Migration and Hostilities toward It," International Migration Review (2020)

L. Yang, M. Eger, and B. Link, "The Human Cost of Politicizing Immigration: Migration Stigma, US Politics, and Health," JAMA (2024)

A. Farmer and K. Linos, "Tools to Finance Climate Mobility: An Introduction to the Symposium," American Journal of International Law (2025)

A. Farmer, "Disasters in Slow Motion: Why Climate Displacement Tests International Legal Frameworks, and What to Do about it," University of Pennsylvania Journal of International Law (2026)

J. Bittle, The Great Displacement: Climate Change and the Next American Migration (Simon & Schuster, 2024)

G. Vince, Nomad Century: How Climate Migration will Reshape our World (Macmillan, 2022)

A. Lustgarten, On the Move: The Overheating Earth and the Uprooting of America (Macmillan, 2024)

T. Hale, Long Problems: Climate Change and the Challenge of Governing Across Time (Princeton Univ. Press, 2024)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Jul 29, 2026 55 min

Immigrant Cities and Democracy's Future

Episode 89

Show notes

Urban settings are the grounds upon which immigration stress-tests the strength of democratic values, institutions, and practices. In this audio version of a live event hosted by CASBS on May 6, 2026, CASBS board member and Stanford sociologist Tomás Jiménez, Oxford economist and 2025-26 CASBS fellow Ian Goldin, and Welcoming America executive director Rachel Perić discuss what we can learn from the experience of immigrant cities, especially those that intentionally decide to enable newcomers and long-time residents to flourish together. Hosted in partnership with Stanford's Institute for Advancing Just Societies.

Watch the event video and read an article about the event: https://casbs.stanford.edu/news/immigrant-cities-and-democracys-future

View a photo gallery from the event: https://casbs.stanford.edu/photo-gallery-what-can-immigrant-cities-teach-us-about-democracy

View the promotional flyer for this event: https://mailchi.mp/df7b0f4c4589/casbs-event-immigrant-cities-democracy?e=c2d0812d02

Learn more about:

• event moderator Tomás Jiménez: https://sociology.stanford.edu/people/tomas-r-jimenez

panelist Ian Goldin: https://iangoldin.org/

panelist Rachel Perić: https://welcomingamerica.org/bio/rachel-peric/

The Institute for Advancing Just Societies: https://justsocieties.stanford.edu/

the Robert A. Scott Lecture: https://casbs.stanford.edu/news/new-lectureship-fund-honors-bob-scott

Bob Scott was featured on the Human Centered podcast in December 2022 (ep. 57), "Bob Scott is Trending": https://human-centered.simplecast.com/episodes/robertscott

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Jun 23, 2026 1 hr 4 min

Network Science's Chief Economist

Episode 88

Show notes

Matthew O. Jackson is perhaps the world’s most renowned scholar of the economics of networks; as a 2005-06 CASBS fellow, he wrote most of his still-influential book Social and Economic Networks. In this wide-ranging conversation with 2025-26 CASBS fellow Rajiv Sethi, Jackson discusses his foundational work on strategic modeling of networks, empirical applications on the role of economic connectedness in influencing people’s life trajectories in the U.S., related multi-disciplinary and cross-national work he is undertaking at the Santa Fe Institute, and recent cutting-edge work using large language models to gain insights into human motivations and behaviors.

Matt Jackson works referenced in this episode:

Matthew Jackson and Asher Wolinsky, "A Strategic Model of Social and Economic Networks," Journal of Economic Theory (1996)

Matthew Jackson and Alison Watts, "The Evolution of Social and Economic Networks," Journal of Economic Theory (2002)

Raj Chetty, Matthew Jackson, et al., "Social Capital I: Measurement and Associations with Economic Mobiliity," Nature (2022)

Raj Chetty, Matthew Jackson, et al., "Social Capital II: Determinants of Economic Connectedness," Nature (2022)

Chetty, Jackson, et al., Opportunity Insights Social Capital Atlas (website)

Dynamics of Wealth Inequality project (Santa Fe Institute)

Matthew Jackson, Social and Economic Networks, Princeton University Press (2008)

Matthew Jackson, The Human Network, Penguin Random House (2020)

Mei, Yuan, and Jackson, "A Turing Test of Whether AI Chatbots are Behaviorally Similar to Humans," PNAS (2024)

Xie, Mei, Yuan, and Jackson, "Using Large Language Models to Categorize Strategic Situations and Decipher Motivations Behind Human Behaviors," PNAS (2025)

---

Rajiv Sethi's latest op-ed is "Polymarket Anonymity Must End," Financial Times (May 7, 2026)

Subscribe to Rajiv's Substack newsletter, Imperfect Information

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

May 22, 2026 58 min

The Micro-mechanisms Influencing Social Interactions

Episode 87

Show notes

Human interactions occur in a variety of contexts. When interactions are marked by conflict, misunderstanding, bias, or aggression, 2024-25 CASBS fellow Katy DeCelles illuminates the micro-sociological and social-psychological dynamics that contribute to the sub-optimal interaction outcomes, enabling the formulation of corrective solutions and better organizational design. DeCelles discusses a sampling of her innovative work in conversation with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist John Markoff (CASBS fellow, 2017-18).

Katherine (Katy) DeCelles: Univ. of Toronto faculty page | Google Scholar page | Poets & Quants profile |

DeCelles work discussed & relevant resources:

"Scale Dichotomization Reduces Customer Racial Discrimination and Income Inequality," Nature 639, 19 February 2025

"Racial Bias Eliminated When Ratings Switch from Five Stars to Thumbs Up or Down," Nature, 19 February 2025

"How Gig Platforms Can Mitigate Racial Bias in Ratings," Harvard Business Review, 14 March 2025

"Different or Impartial? Actor-Observer Asymmetries in Expressing and Evaluating Sociopolitical Neutrality," Journal of Experimental Psychology: General 154(11), 2025

"Understanding the Dynamics of Workplace Violence Can Improve Employee Health and Safety," Rotman School of Management, Univ. of Toronto, 2022

John Markoff: website |

John's latest book is Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand (Penguin Random House, 2022). His next book (forthcoming, 2027), will be published by MIT Press.

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Apr 30, 2026 46 min

David Card: Behind the Nobel

Episode 86

Show notes

In his first visit since to CASBS since his 1996-97 fellowship, UC Berkeley economist David Card lifts the veil behind the innovative empirical work on the labor market effects of immigration, minimum wages, and education that earned him the Nobel Prize in 2021. In conversation with 2024-25 CASBS fellow Dylan Connor, Card also explores issues and questions involving the relationships among geography, social and labor mobility, and wealth inequalities.

DYLAN CONNOR: ASU page | Google Scholar page |

Work emerging from David Card's CASBS year

• "Immigrant Inflows, Native Outflows, and the Local Labor Market Impacts of Higher Immigration," Journal of Labor Economics (2001)
"Would Financial Incentives for Leaving Welfare Lead Some People to Stay on Welfare Longer?" NBER Working Paper (1997)
"Adapting to Circumstances: The Evolution of Work, School, and Living Arrangements among North American Youth," in Youth Employment and Joblessness in Advanced Countries (Univ. of Chicago Press, 2000)
"School Finance Reform, the Distribution of School Spending, and the Distribution of Student Test Scores," Journal of Public Economics (2002)
"The More Things Change: Immigrants and the Children of Immigrants in the 1940s, the 1970s, and the 1990s," in Issues in the Economics of Immigration (Univ. of Chicago Press, 2000)

Other CASBS fellows mentioned in this episode

• Orley Ashenfelter (1989-90)
Alan B. Krueger (1999-2000)
Roberto M. Fernandez (1996-97)
Robert D. Putnam (1974-75, 1988-89)
Min Zhou (2005-06)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Feb 26, 2026 57 min

Your Field Guide for Creating Social Change

Episode 85

Show notes

Philosophers Michael Brownstein (CASBS fellow 2019-20) and Dan Kelly (2018-19), two of the coauthors of "Somebody Should Do Something: How Anyone Can Create Social Change," discuss their book's framing and key concepts with Damon Centola (2014-15), an expert in social network dynamics. The book offers a pragmatic guide for connecting individuals to their role as change agents, illuminating the social feedback processes through which structures, individuals, and social movements interact, unlocking the potential for systemic change.

The book is Somebody Should Do Something: How Anyone Can Help Create Social Change (MIT Press, 2025)

Explore the book's website, containing related research, media, more about the authors, and an appendix that provides "A Deeper Dive into Individuals, Structures, and Other Key Concepts"

Michael Brownstein: CUNY Graduate Center webpage | personal webpage | Google Scholar page | CASBS page |

Dan Kelly: Purdue Univ. webpage | personal webpage | Google Scholar page | CASBS page |

Other works referenced in this episode:

Alex Madva, Daniel Kelly, Michael Brownstein, "Change the People or Change the Policy? On the Moral Education of Antiracists," Ethical Theory and Moral Practice (2023)

Michael Brownstein, Daniel Kelly, Alex Madva, "Individualism, Structuralism, and Climate Change," Environmental Communication (2021)

C. Wright Mills, The Power Elite (1956) (Wikipedia)

James S. Coleman, Equality of Educational Opportunity (1966), known as The Coleman Report (Wikipedia)

Pierre Bourdieu, Distinction: A Social Critique of the Judgement of Taste (1979 [1984]) (Wikipedia)

Other 2018-19 CASBS fellows who Dan Kelly mentions in this episode: Christopher Bryan, Jennifer Freyd, Ying-hi Hong, Elizabeth Lonsdorf, Ruth Milkman

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Jan 13, 2026 1 hr 7 min

Paul Milgrom: Beyond the Nobel

Episode 84

Show notes

Economist Paul Milgrom is celebrated for his Nobel Prize-winning work on auction theory and design. But he has published a wide range of other innovative, influential research throughout his career – including a book and articles emerging from his 1991-92 CASBS fellowship. Gani Aldashev (CASBS fellow, 2024-25) engages Milgrom on highlights of this often-collaborative or cross-disciplinary work on organizational behavior, the institutional roots of trust and cooperation, social choice for environmental policy, and more.

Gani Aldashev: Georgetown faculty page | CASBS page | Google Scholar page |

PAUL MILGROM WORKS REFERENCED IN THIS EPISODE:

Economics, Organization, and Management (Prentice Hall, 1992), coauthored with John Roberts (CASBS fellow, 1991-92)

"Multitask Principal-Agent Analyses: Incentive Contracts, Asset Ownership, and Job Design," The Journal of Law, Economics, and Organization (1991), coauthored with Bengt Holmstrom

"Complementarities and Fit Strategy, Structure, and Organizational Change in Manufacturing," Journal of Accounting and Economics (1995), coauthored with John Roberts

"Complementarities, Momentum, and the Evolution of Modern Manufacturing," The American Economic Review (1991), coauthored with Yingyi Qian, John Roberts

"Complementarities and Systems: Understanding Japanese Economic Organization," Estudios Economicos (1994), coauthored with John Roberts

"The Role of Institutions in the Revival of Trade: The Law Merchant, Private Judges, and the Champagne Fairs," Economics & Politics (1990), coauthored with Douglass North (CASBS fellow, 1987-88) and Barry Weingast (CASBS fellow, 1993-94)

• Learn about the Champagne Fairs on Wikipedia

"Coordination, Commitment and Enforcement: The Case of the Merchant Guild," Journal of Political Economy (1994), coauthored with Avner Greif (CASBS fellow, 1993-94), Barry Weingast

"Is Sympathy an Economic Value? Philosophy, Economics, and the Contingent Valuation Method," in Contingent Valuation: A Critical Assessment, J.A. Hausman, ed. (Elsevier, 1993)

"Kenneth Arrow's Last Theorem," Journal of Mechanism and Institution Design (2024)

Other works referenced in this episode:

Oliver Williamson, The Economic Institutions of Capitalism: Firms, Markets, Relational Contracting (Mcmillan, 1985). Much of this book was written at CASBS during Williamson's 1977-78 CASBS fellowship.

Works emerging from Milgrom's CASBS fellowships

Milgrom's collaborations with, intellectual interactions with, or responses to other Nobel Prize winners in this episode:

• Oliver Williamson (CASBS fellow 1977-78, Nobel Prize 2009)
• Bengt Holmstrom (Nobel Prize 2016)
• Robert Wilson (CASBS fellow 1977-78, Nobel Prize 2020)
• Ronald Coase (CASBS fellow 1958-59, Nobel Prize 1991)
• Douglass North (CASBS fellow 1987-88, Nobel Prize 1993)
• Kenneth Arrow (CASBS fellow 1956-57, Nobel Prize 1972)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Dec 9, 2025 47 min

In Edward Said's Shadow

Episode 83

Show notes

Edward Said famously wrote most of "Orientalism" during his 1975-76 CASBS fellowship. The book criticized Western worldviews and representations of the East (or 'Orient') and their perpetuation of romanticized or colonial mindsets. A half-century later, "Orientalism" continues to shape scholarship, frame debates, and resonate in disparate regions and contexts. Four 2024-25 CASBS fellows representing different disciplines – A. Shane Dillingham, Thomas Blom Hansen, Camilla Hawthorne, and Shirin Sinnar – discuss the enduring influence and impact of Said and his landmark book.

EDWARD SAID WORKS REFERENCED IN THIS EPISODE
Orientalism (Pantheon, 1978)
"The One State Solution," New York Times, 10 January 1999
Representations of the Intellectual (Penguin Random House, 1996)

Other works emerging from Edward Said's CASBS fellowship

Edward Said on CASBS
In evaluating his CASBS fellowship in 1976, Edward Said noted that "...the Center does not pay enough attention (in its selection of Fellows) to revisionist and/or radical scholars in the humanities and social sciences. There are a great many intellectual developments taking place, many of them because of thinkers whose work departs from (if does not explicitly reject) the conventions of Establishment scholarship."

In addition to this constructive criticism, Said remarked in general that "...the quiet and the absence of immediate pressures were, for me, a very welcome change from past years, when deadlines, a thousand daily commitments, and the mad pressures of teaching in a large university (in a large city) made continuity of work and reflection almost impossible." Said further reported that Orientialism was "exactly four-fifths complete." In accounting for his "extremely valuable and productive year," he wrote: "I do not think I could have done this sort of work anywhere else...the working conditions are...comfortable in the best way for a scholar..."

Of his work on Orientalism, Said further noted: "The other more or less special advantage to this year was to have time to change directions in my work, to move from a highly theoretical kind of speculation to a very concrete historical investigation. Many of my ideas about such matters as the history of traditions, the growth of scientific and disciplinary knowledge, the ideology of scholarship, the relationship between “knowledge” and the imagination took new, concrete forms. Without such a year – and it is impossible to say where else I could have had such a year – I would still be making statements without being sure as their historical and concrete validity. Moreover, I found that I had the time to pursue leads only to prove that they were the wrong ones; the important thing was to have the time to let my work take me where it would, and not be afraid.”

Excerpted from Edward Said, "Evaluation of fellowship year 1975-76," letter to CASBS director Gardner Lindzey, August 19, 1976 (CASBS files)

Other works referenced in this episode
Timothy Brennan, Places of Mind: A Life of Edward Said (Bloomsbury, 2022)
Stuart Hall, "The West and the Rest: Discourse and Power," in Essential Essays, Vol. 2 (Duke Univ. Press, 2018 [1992])
Camilla Hawthorne, "Mapping Black Geographies," Transactions of the Institute of British Geographers (2024)
Sophia Azeb, "The 'No-State Solution'," The Funambulist (2017)
Sophia Azeb, "Who Will We Be When We are Free?" The Funambulist (2019)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Oct 28, 2025 1 hr 9 min

Colin Camerer: Econ's Neurovisionary

Episode 82

Show notes

An absorbing conversation featuring Colin Camerer (CASBS fellow, 1997-98), among the world's most accomplished scholars in both behavioral economics and neuroeconomics, with economist Stephanie Wang (2024-25). Camerer discusses his groundbreaking work on the neuroeconomics of self-control and habit formation; offers insights on generating ideas for, building, then scaling behavioral models; and explains why neuroscience remains a wide-open field awaiting the contributions of so-far mostly reluctant economists and other social scientists.

STEPHANIE WANG: Pitt faculty page | Personal website | on Google Scholar | CASBS bio |

Works discussed or mentioned in this episode:

C. Camerer, Behavioral Game Theory: Experiments in Strategic Interaction. Princeton University Press, 2003.

C. Camerer, "Can Asset Markets Be Manipulated? A Field Experiment with Racetrack Betting," Journal of Political Economy, 1998.

C. Camerer, et al., "The Golden Age of Social Science," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2021.

C. Camerer, et al., "A Neural Autopilot Theory of Habit: Evidence from Consumer Purchases and Social Media Use," Journal of the Experimental Analysis of Behavior, 2024.

S. Wang, C. Camerer, et al., "Looming Large or Seeming Small? Attitudes Toward Losses in a Representative Sample," Review of Economic Studies, 2025.

F. Ramsey, "Truth and Probability" (1926), published in F. Ramsey, The Foundations of Mathematics and Other Logical Essays (1931)

U. Malmendier, S. Nagel, "Depression Babies: Do Macroeconomic Experiences Affect Risk Taking?" Quarterly Journal of Economics, 2011.

M. Cobb, The Idea of the Brain: The Past and Future of Neuroscience, Basic Books, 2020.

M. Gaetani, "CASBS in the History of Behavioral Economics," CASBS website, 2018.

Also of interest:

S. Wang, et al., eds., "Mindful Economics: A Special Issue in Honor of Colin Camerer," Journal of Economic Behavior and Organization, forthcoming.

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Oct 2, 2025 46 min

Grand Master of the Sociology of Immigration & Assimilation

Episode 81

Show notes

For decades, Alejandro Portes (CASBS fellow 1980-81) has been among our most distinguished scholars elucidating the causes and consequences of immigration and assimilation. René D. Flores (CASBS fellow 2023-24) engages Portes in a conversation spanning large swaths of Portes's formidable intellectual biography, including his personal journey from Cuba and its influence on his academic trajectory, as well as his approach to social science inquiry and its delivery of insights leading to some of his most celebrated and consequential works.

Robert K. Merton's full quote about Alejandro Portes is contained in the September/October 1998 issue of Footnotes, a publication of the American Sociological Association. Access the full text.

Works referenced in this episode

Alejandro Portes, "Rationality in the Slum: An Essay on Interpretive Sociology," Comparative Studies in Society and History, v13 n3, June 1972.

Alejandro Portes, "Dilemmas of a Golden Exile: Integration of Cuban Refugee Families in Milwaukee," American Sociological Review, v34 n4, August 1969.

Alejandro Portes and Robert Bach, Latin Journey: Cuban and Mexican Immigrants in the United States. Univ. of California Press, 1985.

Alejandro Portes and Min Zhou, "The New Second Generation: Segmented Assimilation and its Variants," Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, November 1993.

Alejandro Portes and Ruben Rumbaut, Immigrant America: A Portrait, Univ. of California Press, 2024 (fifth ed.)

Alejandro Portes and Ruben Rumbaut, Legacies: The Story of the Immigrant Second Generation, Univ. of California Press, 2001.

Jennifer Lee and Min Zhou, The Asian American Achievement Paradox, Russell Sage Foundation, 2015. (Notably, Jennifer Lee was a CASBS fellow in 2002-03; Min Zhou was a CASBS fellow in 2006-06.)

Bonus: 2019-20 CASBS fellow Catherine Ramírez discusses the influence of Alejandro Portes in "What Does Assimilation Mean?" Public Books, Feb. 27, 2020. The essay was written as part of CASBS's partnership with Public Books. Ramírez writes, "By showing that there are many strata in society into which people assimilate, and many outcomes of assimilation, Portes and his coauthors have enriched our understanding of the processes by which people become American, however precarious that status may be.”

René D. Flores: Univ. of Chicago faculty page | CASBS page | on Google Scholar | Personal website |

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Jul 21, 2025 55 min

Can AI Take Common Sense from a Baby?

Episode 80

Show notes

Generative AI tools built on large language models are increasingly "intelligent" yet lack a baby's common sense – the ability to non-verbally generalize to novel situations without additional training. What can developmental science contribute to AI? Tech journalist and former CASBS fellow John Markoff chats with 2023-24 CASBS fellow David Moore, a developmental scientist with expertise in infant cognition, on evaluating the efforts of DARPA's Machine Common Sense program as well as prospects and concerns associated with creating AIs with common sense.

DAVID MOORE: Personal website | Claremont Infant Study Center | Wikipedia page |

DARPA Machine Common Sense program

Related resource:

David Moore, et al. "Leveraging Developmental Psychology to Evaluate Artificial Intelligence," 2022 IEEE International Conference on Development and Learning (ICDL), Nov. 2022. DOI: 10.1109/ICDL53763.2022.9962183

Recommended by David Moore:

Esther Thelen and Linda B. Smith. A Dynamic Systems Approach to the Development of Cognition and Action. MIT Press, 1994.

Read John Markoff's latest book, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand (Penguin Random House, 2022)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Apr 30, 2025 37 min

Make the Atmosphere Great Again

Episode 79

Show notes

Given deeply polarized domestic politics and insufficient international commitment to the Paris Accord, can we reduce greenhouse gas emissions and avert some of the worst effects of climate change before it's too late? It's an elemental question that warrants despair, yes, but plenty of hope too. Political scientist Leigh Raymond, a 2021-22 CASBS fellow, explores the implicated issues through a conversation about "Into the Clear Blue Sky: The Path to Restoring Our Atmosphere" with its author, sustainability scientist Rob Jackson. Jackson launched the book project as a 2019-20 CASBS fellow.

Publisher page for Into the Clear Blue Sky: The Path to Restoring Our Atmosphere (Simon & Schuster, 2024)

LEIGH RAYMOND: Faculty page | on Google Scholar |

Publisher page for Reclaiming the Atmospheric Commons: The Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative and a New Model of Emissions Trading (MIT Press, 2016) | 2017 book award announcement |

"What Climate Policies do Americans Want from Their Legislatures?" Good Authority (July 5, 2022)

"Building Support for Carbon Pricing - Lessons from Cap-and-trade Policies," Energy Policy 134 (2019)

"Framing Market-Based Versus Regulatory Climate Policies: A Comparative Analysis," Review of Policy Research (2022)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Mar 24, 2025 57 min

Anthropology at the Borderlands of Experience

Episode 78

Show notes

Two-time CASBS fellow and renowned anthropologist Tanya Luhrmann discusses her past and current work as an anthropologist of the mind, both in religious and psychological contexts, in conversation with 2023-24 CASBS fellow Erica Robles-Anderson. Luhrmann's award-winning work investigates visions, voices, psychosis, the supernatural, and other unusual sensory experiences and phenomena, found often at the borderlands of spirit, culture, and the mind.

Luhrmann, Of Two Minds. Winner of: the Victor Turner Prize in Ethnographic Writing, the Bryce Boyer Prize for Psychological Anthropology, the Gradiva Award from the Association for the Advancement of Psychoanalysis

Luhrmann, When God Talks Back. Winner of the Grawemeyer Prize in Religion and the Kirkus Reviews Best Book of the Year.

Luhrmann, "A life in books," Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute (2020)

Luhrmann, et al. "Sensing the presence of gods and spirits across cultures and faiths," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2021)

ERICA ROBLES-ANDERSON: NYU faculty page | CASBS page | on Google Scholar |

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Feb 27, 2025 58 min

Demystifying the Disinformation Marketplace

Episode 77

Show notes

There never will be enough independent fact checking of online political advertising and their ecosystems. Can we develop methods and tools to demonetize or at least disincentivize the behaviors of disinformation producers as well as the ad firms and content providers in business with them? 2023-24 CASBS fellow Ceren Budak navigates the disinformation marketplace and illuminates pathways for better design of online communities and platforms in conversation with Pulitzer Prize-winning tech journalist and former CASBS fellow John Markoff.

CEREN BUDAK: Faculty webpage | Personal website |

Referenced in this episode:

"Misunderstanding the harms of online misinformation." Nature 630, 45–53 (2024)

The Prosocial Ranking Challenge (Center for Human-Compatible Artificial Intelligence)

"Intermedia agenda setting during the 2016 and 2020 U.S. presidential elections." Proceedings of the International AAAI Conference on Web and Social Media, 18(1), 254-275.

Lawrence Lessig's Pathetic Dot Theory (Wikipedia)

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Read John Markoff's latest book, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand (Penguin Random House, 2022)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Jan 28, 2025 47 min

The Humanity of Connective Labor

Episode 76

Show notes

Are jobs requiring high levels of human interaction worth preserving in the age of automation? Can we design machines to achieve something profound – the mutual recognition that occurs when human beings truly "see" each other? CASBS faculty fellow Mitchell Stevens explores these questions with Allison Pugh, author of the 2024 book The Last Human Job: The Work of Connecting in a Disconnected World. Pugh launched work on the book as a 2016-17 CASBS fellow.

ALLISON PUGH
website | Google Scholar page | Interview with Allison Pugh on building a society of connection (CASBS in partnership with Public Books) |

Princeton University Press page for The Last Human Job

MITCHELL STEVENS
Stanford GSE faculty page | Stanford profile | CASBS page | Google Scholar page |

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Oct 15, 2024 51 min

Organized Civic Benevolence and Nationhood

Episode 75

Show notes

Santi Furnari (CASBS fellow, 2023-24) engages renowned political sociologist & 2015-16 fellow Elisabeth Clemens on the role of private civic volunteer organizations in co-constructing national identity and state capacity as well as serving as tools of governance, solidarity, and inclusion for much of American history. In what form does civic benevolence and philanthropy operate in the contemporary landscape? This absorbing conversation draws inspiration from the multi-award-winning book "Civic Gifts," much of which Clemens wrote during her CASBS year.

ELISABETH CLEMENS: Univ. of Chicago faculty page | Clemens wins 2023 Gordon J. Laing Award | on Wikipedia |

The book is Civic Gifts: Voluntarism and the Making of the American Nation-State (Univ. of Chicago Press), winner of the Barrington Moore Book Award, Comparative and Historical Sociology section, American Sociological Association; the University of Chicago Press Gordon J. Laing Award; the Outstanding Published Book Award, ASA Section on Altruism, Morality, and Social Solidarity; and the Peter Dobkin Hall History of Philanthropy Prize, Association for Research on Nonprofit Organizations and Voluntary Action (ARNOVA).

SANTI FURNARI: CASBS page | City University of London, Bayes School of Business faculty page | on Google Scholar |

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Aug 2, 2024 52 min

Exposing Sources and Impacts of Election Disinformation Campaigns

Episode 74

Show notes

Legendary tech journalist John Markoff (CASBS fellow, 2017-18) chats with 2023-24 CASBS fellow Young Mie Kim on her groundbreaking efforts to identify how shadowy groups use algorithms and targeted disinformation campaigns during presidential election cycles; measure their real-world distorting effects on voter mobilization or suppression; and illuminate our understanding of resulting political inequalities and their implications for American democracy.

YOUNG MIE KIM: CASBS bio | Univ. of Wisconsin faculty page | "The Disinformation Detective" (On Wisconsin magazine) |

Kim leads Project DATA (Digital Ad Tracking & Analysis) at UW. | Project DATA on X |

Kim is lead author of the article "The Stealth Media? Groups and Targets Behind Divisive Issue Campaigns on Facebook," Political Communication, v35 n4 (2018). The article won the Kaid-Sanders Award for the Best Political Communication Article of the Year by the International Communication Association.

Coverage of findings: The New York Times here and here | Wired |

Kim's testimony delivered to the Federal Election Commission |

Kim is a founding member of the International Panel on the Information Environment. Coverage of IPIE in The New York Times |

Kim among the authors of "The effects of Facebook and Instagram on the 2020 election: A deactivation experiment," Proceedings of the National Academies of Science, v121 n2 (2024) |

Kim a coauthor of several articles appearing in a special issue of Science on Social Media and Elections (2023) |

At the beginning of the episode, Kim discusses the influence of Phil Converse. Converse was a CASBS fellow in 1979-80 and later served as CASBS director (1989-94). Learn more about Converse's work.

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Read John Markoff's latest book, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand (Penguin Random House, 2022)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Jul 8, 2024 42 min

The Gold Standard of Economic Historians

Episode 73

Show notes

Stefan Link, a 2023-24 CASBS fellow, chats with Barry Eichengreen, a 1996-97 CASBS fellow and world renowned for his expertise at the nexus of international economics and economic history. They discuss some of Eichengreen's most prominent works — including "The European Economy Since 1945," which emerged from his CASBS experience, and "Golden Fetters," his most cited book — interrogating their durability and applicability to contemporary industrial, financial, and monetary policy challenges and governance.

BARRY EICHENGREEN: UC Berkeley faculty page | Homepage & CV | on Wikipedia |

STEFAN LINK: CASBS bio | Dartmouth faculty page |

Mentioned in the episode:

Eichengreen's talk on "Steering Structural Change" (session 2) at the Peterson Institute for International Economics (16 April 2024)

Eichengreen & Temin NBER paper on "The Gold Standard and the Great Depression" (June 1997)

Select Eichengreen books

Elusive Stability: Essays in the History of International Finance 1919-1939 (Cambridge Univ. Press, 1990)
Golden Fetters: The Gold Standard and the Great Depression 1919-1939 (Oxford Univ. Press, 1992)
International Monetary Arrangements for the 21st Century (Brookings Institution, 1994)
Globalizing Capital: A History of the International Monetary System (Princeton Univ. Press, 1994)
European Monetary Unification: Theory, Practice, and Analysis (MIT Press, 1997)
Toward a New International Financial Architecture: A Practical Post-Asia Agenda (Peterson Institute for International Economics, 1999)
Financial Crises and What to Do About Them (Oxford Univ. Press, 2002)
Capital Flows and Crises (MIT Press, 2004)
Global Imbalances and the Lessons of Bretton Woods (MIT Press, 2006)
The European Economy Since 1945: Coordinated Capitalism and Beyond (Princeton Univ. Press, 2006)
Exorbitant Privilege: The Rise and Fall of the Dollar and the Future of the International Monetary System (Oxford Univ. Press, 2012)
Hall of Mirrors: The Great Depression, the Great Recession, and the Uses — and Misuses — of History (Oxford Univ. Press, 2015)

Stefan Link book

Forging Global Fordism: Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and the Contest over the Industrial Order (Princeton Univ. Press, 2020)
Winner of the Stuart L. Bernath Book Prize, Society for Historians of American Foreign Relations, as well as the Herbert Baxter Adams Prize, American Historical Association

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

May 31, 2024 1 hr 13 min

A Scholar's Commitment to Workers' Economic Justice

Episode 72

Show notes

Labor historian & 2023-24 CASBS fellow Gabriel Winant in conversation with 2018-19 CASBS fellow Ruth Milkman, among the nation's most renowned sociologists of labor. In addition to interrogating divisions within and segmentation across labor markets in recent decades, Milkman also has remained attuned to the complexity of the overall working class experience, essential for illuminating ways in which workers can unite and organize.

RUTH MILKMAN: CUNY faculty page | personal website | ASA bio |

Milkman's book Immigrant Labor and the New Precariat (2020) | Polity Press Q&A |

GABRIEL WINANT: CASBS bio | Univ. of Chicago faculty page | faculty Q&A |

Winant's book The Next Shift: The Fall of Industry and the Rise of Health Care in Rust Belt America (2022)

Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences (CASBS) at Stanford University

Human Centered
Producer: Mike Gaetani | Audio engineer & co-producer: Joe Monzel

Apr 30, 2024 51 min