Latter Day Bridge Builders

Richard Ostler, known to a lot of people as Papa Ostler, joins Juliet and Ashton. He's a former YSA bishop, a believing Latter-day Saint, and host of Listen, Learn and Love, which has over 900 episodes, mostly LGBTQ people telling their own stories. He talks about the drive home that made him wipe the slate clean on everything he thought he knew about queer people. He explains non-agenda love and why he tells parents to focus on having no empty chairs at the table in this life. He also gets into why really good people are leaving the church, what a mom of a trans son taught him with a carsick analogy, and why he thinks curiosity is a Christlike trait.

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Ben Schilaty is a gay, active Latter-day Saint, a social work professor at UVU, a therapist, and the author of A Walk in My Shoes. Jules and Ashton sit down with him to talk about coming out while staying in the church, why "the rules are the same" for gay and straight single members misses the point, what church leaders actually need to know, and why the most helpful thing you can say to someone who's struggling is "tell me more." Plus social safety, coming home early from a mission, and what it looks like to hold up the welcome home sign for the people you love.

Ben's Gather conference for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and those who love them is November 13-14 in Provo. Details at liftandlove.org

Buy Ben's Book "A Walk in My Shoes" here: https://www.deseretbook.com/product/P5246287.html?srsltid=AYCX9vK12TcNcVw5NZguxC4SBLbC6gX-JhjRlE_o1xXwYzwTkd_Fllzlhttps://a.co/d/04gblYEi

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St. George radio host and comedian Mikey (Mikey and the Mrs on Planet 105.1) joins us to talk about how humor can get active and former Latter-day Saints laughing at the same thing. He explains why he never tells his audience whose side he's on, where he draws the line between poking at the culture and mocking what's sacred, and why he won't punch down at ex-Mormons going through the angry phase. We also get into his mission, why every member is really a PR rep, coffee vs. heroin, knee-length jean shorts, and why we're all a bunch of phonies whether we're at church or Costco.

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Batchlor Johnson IV started posting about his faith back when hardly anyone was sharing testimony online. He went to the temple every week for two years, posted about it, and his following took off. Now he says the pushback he gets doesn’t come from ex-Mormons. It comes from other members.Juliet and Ashton sit down with Batchlor (former college football player, musician, U of U econ grad, BYU mass comm master’s) to talk about what it’s like to be openly LDS online. We get into why the algorithm rewards division, how control usually comes from fear, the difference between culture and doctrine, and why he tells people with questions to work through them instead of staying or leaving blindly.We also cover holy envy, letting each other worship “how, where, or what they may” inside the church, and his advice for anyone who wants to share their faith online but is nervous about the backlash.Find Batchlor: @batchloriv🌐 More episodes & links: https://linktr.ee/latterdaybridgebuilders📸 Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/latterdaybridgebuilders 🎥 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@latterdaybridgebuilders☕ Support the podcast: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LDSBridgebuilders👕 Merch Store: https://ldbb-shop.fourthwall.com

Content note: this episode discusses death in detail, including infant and perinatal loss and a reference to suicide. Listener discretion advised.

In this episode of Latter Day Bridge Builders, Mitch, Juliet, and Ashton sit down for one of their most personal conversations yet: death. What did they each believe happened after we die, back when they were fully believing? How has that changed, and did losing that belief change how they grieve?

Juliet shares the experience of caring for her mother through six weeks of home hospice, and her work in high-risk obstetrics, where she cares for grieving families after perinatal loss.

Mitch talks about his years working in healthcare, seeing death up close for the first time, and his own daughter processing her grandfather's death.

Ashton, still active in the church, brings the believer's perspective on grief, hope, and the framing that a good, long life is "graduating" rather than something to mourn.

We dig into questions like:

- Is it possible to stay connected to someone who died without believing they're literally still somewhere?

- Does something have to last forever to matter?

- If there's no afterlife, what actually remains?

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Ashton returns for a deep, personal follow-up to our episode on his unique mission call to the Family and Church History Headquarters mission in Salt Lake, a mission staffed almost entirely by young elders with anxiety, autism, bipolar disorder, and other conditions.

He opens up about the good: lifelong friendships, a moving story about scripture memorization, and discovering a long-lost aunt through Ancestry DNA. He also gets into the complicated, including the church's $60 million data deal with Ancestry.com and questions about who really benefits from missionary labor.

Ashton shares two regrets he still carries: moments where his authority as a leader shut down a companion's doubts instead of making room for them. Juliet pushes back with sharp questions throughout.

The conversation lands on a reflection from Elder Bednar: don't be a specialist, be a generalist, and what that means for building bridges across belief.

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Andy Newman, a licensed therapist, ex-Mormon, and creator behind @andynewmanlpc joins us to role-play through real scenarios we hear constantly in the ex-Mormon and nuanced-member space: coming out to a believing spouse, dressing/behaving differently while still going to church, family members who won't stop sending conference talks, and parents scared their kid is leaving the faith.

We also get into the difference between a faith crisis, a faith transition, a faith expansion, and religious trauma — and why those aren't the same thing, even though they often get lumped together.

Work with Andy as a therapist: https://www.collectivecounselors.com/andy-newman-lpc

Follow Andy on TikTok and Instagram: https://www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy https://www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/

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He played Lucifer in the LDS temple endowment film for a decade. Then, after 43 years as a member, Corbin Allred left the LDS Church — and he hasn't necessarily been quiet about it.

In this episode, actor and ER medical provider Corbin Allred joins Mitch in St. George, UT to talk about what it's like to be recognized as "the guy who played Satan," why he refuses to "leave it alone" after leaving the church, and the strange paradox of feeling spiritual confirmation to walk away from something he'd believed his whole life.

We get into:

- Being recognized (and sometimes feared) by patients who saw him in the temple film

- Responding to criticism that he "baits" people online

- What he regrets about how he left, and who he's really talking to when he posts

- Agnostic atheism vs. atheism, and why "I know" is a loaded phrase

- The paradox of feeling the same spiritual confirmation point two different directions

- Nihilism, death, and finding peace without certainty

Links and other show notes:

Follow Corbin: https://www.instagram.com/thecorbinallred

Corbin's IMDB page: https://tinyurl.com/2nu9knumDavid Eagleman: A New Look at Religion (Possibilianism): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LENqnjZGX0A

The Egg -- A Short Story by Andy Weir | Kurzgesagt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6fcK_fRYaI

This is Your Brain on God | Michael Ferguson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocuqguH1OIw

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Historian, author of The Fourth Wife, and grad student Linda Hamilton joins Juliet for a deep dive into Mormon polygamy: how it actually worked, who it actually harmed, and why it's still baked into LDS theology today.

They cover the poverty most plural wives lived in, the myth that polygamy was created to protect widows, the chaos of Nauvoo and Winter Quarters (including Joseph Smith's sealings to already-married women), the rise of Joseph Smith polygamy-denialism online, and why Linda can't get through the Doctrine and Covenants in Sunday School anymore.

Linda's debut novel, The Fourth Wife, is out now. Her next book, The Glass Looker, about seer woman Sally Chase, releases for pre-order soon.

Purchase The Fourth Wife here: https://a.co/d/01B5gEE5Find Linda: https://www.instagram.com/lindahamiltonwriter

Exponent II blog: https://exponentii.org/blog-home/#

Substack: https://lindahamiltonwriter.substack.com/

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Two Converts, Two Paths: Temple Experiences, Polygamy, and Finding Your Place as an Outsider

Mitch and Ashton are out this week, so Stevie takes the host chair alongside guest Juliet for a rare two-convert conversation.

Both joined the Church as teenagers (Stevie at 19, Juliet at 16), and both have since gone through a faith crisis, landing in very different places: Stevie is still active and reconstructing her faith, Juliet has stepped away and now identifies as deconstructing/disaffiliated.

They dig into audience-submitted questions covering:

• Why they joined despite real concerns about prophets, Joseph Smith, and family pushback
• Their first time inside a temple: the culture shock, the "unremarkable" vs. "overwhelming" range of first impressions, and Juliet's "sandbox on a beach" metaphor for how her spiritual experiences have been recontextualized rather than erased
• Serving as temple workers, including baptistry and sealing-room escort duties, and the practical advice they both got to space out receiving an endowment from getting sealed
• Polygamy: how each of them made sense of it as converts, and why treating polygamist women (past and present) as simply brainwashed misses their own agency and reasoning
• Whether converts ever feel like they've "made it," and how never quite fitting the mold shaped both of their trajectories

A candid, generous conversation between two women who joined the same church from very different directions and still found a lot of common ground.

Stevie's first interview on LDBB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRFkwwQw7U&t=274s

Stevie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/s.t.e.v.i.e_j/

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Abi Finny (@abi.finny) joins Juliet, Ashton, and Mitch to talk about the viral "temple to Taco Bell" video that got her labeled too crass by some and celebrated by others; and why a married Latter-day Saint talking openly about sex still makes people uncomfortable. As a nurse, Abi breaks down why comprehensive sex ed and body literacy matter regardless of your relationship status, and gets into purity culture, the pressure to be pretty but not know it, self-love vs. conceit, and the "check-mark" version of faithfulness (mission, temple marriage, etc.) that can leave you feeling disconnected from God anyway. She also talks about her "car conversations" series interviewing people across the belief spectrum, and why she'd rather build mutual respect than "flirt to convert."

Follow Abi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abi.finny🌐 More episodes & links: https://linktr.ee/latterdaybridgebuilders📸 Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/latterdaybridgebuilders 🎥 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@latterdaybridgebuilders☕ Support the podcast: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LDSBridgebuilders👕 Merch Store:https://ldbb-shop.fourthwall.com

What do Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals actually have in common and where do things go sideways?

In this episode, Mitch and Ashton sit down with Steven Pynakker of Mormon Book Reviews, an evangelical who has spent five years deeply immersed in the world of the Latter-day Saint Restoration. Steven shares why he considers himself pro-atheist, what he thinks drives people from Mormonism straight to atheism, and why he believes an unchallenged faith is a weak one. Ashton shares a meaningful personal experience with evangelical students at Biola University that reframed how he sees interfaith connection. And the three of them dig into the surprisingly wide and messy world of Restoration sects, from the Bickertonites to the Fundamentalists, and what it means to build bridges not just between faiths, but within the Restoration itself.

Steven's email: mormonbookreviews@gmail.com

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Madi Davis (Sisters on the Front Lines) joins Mitch, Juliet, and Ashton to talk about something the church rarely acknowledges: women and pornography use.

Madi shares how she found pornography at 13 while sitting through Young Women's lessons insisting girls didn't struggle with it and how that silence shaped years of shame.

The conversation moves through the "addiction" label and why Madi pushes back on it, the difference between guilt and shame, why abstinence-based accountability models often backfire, and the messaging both men and women got growing up about whose "problem" this even was.

Ashton and Juliet share their own experiences with 12-step programs, purity culture, and the disconnect between how bodies are talked about at church versus in real life.

Find Madi at sistersonthefrontlines.com or https://www.instagram.com/sistersonthefrontlines

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What happens when you study Mormon history without an agenda? Dr. Benjamin Park — historian, author of American Zion and Kingdom of Nauvoo, and former Mormon History Association president — joins Mitch, Juliet, and Ashton to talk about what it means to approach faith history honestly.We get into why history is rarely the reason people leave the church (but often the permission), whether the church intentionally hid its past, what "hermeneutics of generosity" actually means, and how figures like Thomas Jefferson and Brigham Young force us to wrestle with judging historical figures on their own terms, or not.Whether you're in, out, or somewhere in between, this one's for anyone who's ever felt like the history didn't quite match the story they were told.🔗 Find Ben's work at BenjaminEPark.com YouTube: @BenjaminParkHistorian🌐 More episodes & links: https://linktr.ee/latterdaybridgebuilders📸 Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/latterdaybridgebuilders 🎥 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@latterdaybridgebuilders☕ Support the podcast: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LDSBridgebuilders👕 Merch Store:https://ldbb-shop.fourthwall.com

"Doubt Your Doubts." Is It Actually Good Advice?

In this episode of Latter Day Bridge Builders, Mitch, Juliet, and Ashton dig into one of the most well-known phrases in LDS faith crisis conversations: "Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith." A line from Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf's October 2013 General Conference talk, Come, Join With Us.

Is the advice itself bad? Or is it the way it gets deployed that's the problem? The three co-hosts explore the difference between a phrase that invites reflection and one that shuts conversation down entirely, as well as share personal stories about how this cliché landed (or didn't) in their own lives.

Topics covered:

- The full context of Uchtdorf's original quote and what he actually meant

- How "doubt your doubts" can function as a thought-stopping technique

- Juliet's experience teaching seminary under the instruction to "never plant doubt"

- Ashton's take on how doubting his faith actually strengthened it over time

- Why "doubt your concerns" and "doubt your legitimate questions" don't hit the same

- Mitch's wish for more spaces (inside and outside the church) where people can genuinely wrestle with hard questions

Referenced in this episode:

Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Come, Join With Us (October 2013 General Conference): https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng

Kelsey Sorensen, "Doubt Your Doubts: Is It Actually Good Advice for LDS Members?" — Exponent II: https://exponentii.org/blog/doubt-your-doubts-is-it-actually-good-advice-for-lds-members/

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What does it look like to stop believing in the Church but still show up every Sunday? In this episode, we sit down with Colton Scott. A born-and-raised Utah Mormon, returned missionary (Scotland & Ireland), and BYU grad who describes himself as a product of "the Utah factory." Colton shares the story of how his sister's faith transition in 2023 sent him down a rabbit hole of investigation that ultimately broke his shelf, and how he's navigated life as a PIMO (Physically In, Mentally Out) ever since.

In this episode, we discuss:

- Colton's background: mission, LDS Business College, BYU, and growing up in a deeply devout family

- How his sister's faith transition triggered his own investigation (CES Letter, LDS Discussions, and more)

- The things that had been on his shelf for years: the Book of Mormon, the SEC's $5M penalty against the Church, Brigham Young, and LGBTQ issues

- What it was like to tell his bishopric (in two different wards) that he no longer believes, and why both experiences went better than expected

- The tension of being PIMO: staying for community, family, and the 80% he still agrees with

- Baptizing his son while no longer believing, and the harder questions ahead (temple recommends, weddings, priesthood circles)

- Whether attending church as a non-believer means "feeding the beast" and how each person has to find their own tolerance level

- The Church's culture of "all in or all out," and whether that's changing- How Colton's moral compass and standards have stayed intact through his deconstruction

- The autonomic nervous system response to leaving behind lifelong religious habits

- Brian McLaren's four stages of faith: simplicity, complexity, perplexity, and harmony

- A discussion of Jeff Strong's book Torn and Elder Holland's circle moment

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review, and consider supporting the podcast financially — links are below.

You're not alone out there. 🌉

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It's Pride Month, and we're getting personal about our own histories with LGBTQ+ issues and the LDS Church.

Juliet opens up about a chapter in her early Mormon years; actively campaigning for California's Prop 8 in 2008. Knocking on doors and holding signs, despite personally believing gay marriage wasn't wrong. She reflects on outsourcing her moral compass to God, the cognitive dissonance that came with it, and the quiet relief she felt when Prop 8 was later overturned.

Mitch shares his own slow evolution from casually using slurs in a church environment where that went uncorrected, to becoming a more genuine ally.

Ashton, coming from a place of honest self-described unawareness, and brings in scriptural perspective in order to question whether religious institutions should define a single path for sexuality and morality.

Together, we explore why labeling religious opposition to LGBT rights as simply "hateful" often misses the mark, the incongruity of the church's involvement in Prop 8 versus its usual political neutrality, and the irony of a church with a polygamy history campaigning for "one man, one woman" marriage.

Show Notes:

On the Record: A Chronology of LGBTQ Messaging Within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — a 109-page PDF from the podcast Latter Gay Stories — https://lattergaystories.org/record/

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Ashton and Juliet welcome Crystal, a gay woman raised in the LDS Church in Iowa, to share her journey of secrecy, shame, and eventually stepping away from church activity. Crystal describes growing up with strong church expectations (her dad served in leadership), not feeling safe discussing emotions at home, and living a double life after a secret high school relationship with a girl. She recounts intense sexual shame, suicidal ideation, and a pivotal “worthiness” dynamic when her dad questioned her in the stake president’s office. Therapy helped her name her experience, begin coming out, and navigate family reactions. Crystal contrasts supportive friends and a compassionate bishop with systemic church power dynamics, explains panic attacks and depression tied to church participation, and shares how love, nature, and community helped her leave and build a healthier life.We go deep in this episode and hope you are willing to go deep with us.🌐 More episodes & links: https://linktr.ee/latterdaybridgebuil...📸 Follow us on Instagram: / latterdaybridgebuilders 🎥 TikTok: / latterdaybridgebuilders☕ Support the podcast: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LDSBridg...

Ashton and Juliet host author Jeff Strong to discuss his Latter-day Saint-focused book Torn and what drove him to write about faith struggle, deconstruction, and belonging. Jeff shares how his son came home early from the MTC 13 years ago, the “fog of war” that followed, and how family and community reactions created misunderstanding, rejection, and years of pain before finding a healthier way forward. Drawing on experience as a bishop, church employee, BYU teacher, and mission president, he describes common misconceptions: active members underestimate how many leave, misjudge why they leave, and assume life falls apart afterward; while some post-Mormons dismiss why thoughtful, informed people stay. The conversation emphasizes empathy, humility, “new wine in new bottles,” and building bridges to protect marriages, parent-child relationships, and ward culture.Purchase "Torn" here: https://www.amazon.com/Torn-People-Le...🌐 More episodes & links: https://linktr.ee/latterdaybridgebuil...📸 Follow us on Instagram: / latterdaybridgebuilders 🎥 TikTok: / latterdaybridgebuilders☕ Support the podcast: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LDSBridg...

Skyler Sorenson joins us share his story as a covenant-keeping Latter-day Saint who experiences same-sex attraction, is temple married to his wife Amanda, and is a father. He discusses his book Exclude Not Thyself and why he uses the word “thriving” to challenge assumptions that faithful gay Latter-day Saints can’t find joy in the Church. The conversation covers navigating labels and assumptions from both active members and critics and how to avoid judging others while still making moral choices. Skyler explains why “maybe someday” language about doctrine can create religious paralysis, encourages keeping options open, and emphasizes staying connected to others to maintain access, love, and understanding.🌐 More episodes & links: https://linktr.ee/latterdaybridgebuil...📸 Follow us on Instagram: / latterdaybridgebuilders 🎥 TikTok: / latterdaybridgebuilders☕ Support the podcast: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LDSBridg...