Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips

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Neil opens with HighLevel's announcement that it is giving AI away for free, and why so few founders make big, expensive bets like that. Eric argues the bets are getting cheaper: anything you build now is out of date fast, so giving away workflows and bots buys mindshare that turns into service work. They weigh the real risk of not knowing your AI cost cap, rising compute and hardware prices, and Meta's open-ended AI spend. Eric shares why so few people use AI the way Andrej Karpathy describes, and what that means for AI-native firms hiring talent. Then a MacBook Pro quote, a Chinese glass company that got free advertising from the Paris riots, and what Black October's hacks mean for security and passkeys. Free value is still a strong growth lever.

Key takeaways
◾Giving AI tools away free can win mindshare that turns into paid work
◾Know your AI cost cap before you make usage unlimited
◾Being transparent after a security problem builds trust

Chapters
00:00 HighLevel gives AI away free
02:31 Give your workflows and bots away
04:30 AI costs, DGX Spark and Anthropic-SpaceX
06:57 Meta's open-ended AI spend
07:41 Andrej Karpathy: only 0.2% use AI this way
09:08 Scale founder's big bet
11:18 MacBook Pro $14K quote
13:38 Chinese glass company and the Paris riots
15:38 Neil's bulletproof windows
17:23 Black October hacks and passkeys
18:53 Be transparent when things go wrong

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Neil Patel opens on HighLevel giving AI away free, and why its CEO says that sometimes you just have to eat the cost. Eric Siu explains why he gives his own workflows and bots away too, now that an AI visibility report that once cost dollars costs 18 cents. They cover what AI compute costs now, from Eric's DGX Sparks to a MacBook Pro quote of about $14K, Andrej Karpathy's 0.2% figure, a Chinese glass company's Paris riots post, and simple security steps for Black October. Then how AI agents pick local businesses, Spawn's 10-person team spending 30x payroll on AI tokens, Jen Abel's startup sales list, and why GPT-6 Astra being distilled means your IP is dying. They finish on the FlexJet CEO's view of M&A, the listen-to-talk ratio on sales calls, daily AI performance reviews, pay-for-performance risk, Granola's AEO workflow, and Google stock falling 12% after earnings. AI keeps getting cheaper, so the bold move is to give more of it away.

Key takeaways
◾Giving AI tools and workflows away for free builds mindshare and leads
◾Move fast on trends, from events to security news to earnings
◾Use AI for daily feedback instead of waiting for yearly reviews

Chapters
00:00 Neil's week: HighLevel, Experian, Milan
01:00 HighLevel gives AI away free
03:33 Give your workflows and bots away
05:32 AI costs, DGX Spark and Anthropic-SpaceX
08:43 Andrej Karpathy: only 0.2% use AI this way
10:10 Scale founder's big bet
12:01 MacBook Pro $14K quote
14:21 Chinese glass company and the Paris riots
18:06 Black October hacks and passkeys
20:30 Hit trends fast: Eric's AI summit
23:01 How AI agents pick local businesses
28:23 Free AI visibility report
32:58 Spawn: 10 people, 30x payroll on AI
35:10 Iterate fast, change less
36:54 Money Prompt and experience
38:22 Jen Abel's startup sales list
40:53 Founder-led sales advantage
43:31 Win rate over 50% is a warning
47:08 GPT-6 Astra distilled: IP is dying
49:01 Make the offer a no-brainer
51:06 FlexJet CEO on M&A
52:52 Neil Patel defends M&A
58:05 M&A is a tool, not a rule
1:03:36 Sales calls: listen 60, talk 40
1:06:00 Daily AI performance reviews
1:08:13 Gokul Rajaram on short vs long work
1:11:21 Pay-for-performance risk
1:14:40 The $14K laptop bet
1:15:57 Granola's AEO workflow
1:17:54 Google stock falls 12% after earnings
1:20:40 Wrap-up

Neil Patel pays a content agency $17,000 a month. Then they asked for another 10 grand a month.
Eric Siu and Neil ask why agency owners taking home $5,000 a month should not just get a job, then react to Gary Vee on the monetization of random content.

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Eric and Neil start with a content agency Neil pays $17,000 a month, which asked for 10 grand more a month and then changed the price an hour later. Neil asks why a team that takes home about $5,000 a month each on over a million dollars in revenue does not just get a job, and Eric says there is no shame in a salary after 10 years without traction. They contrast that with an agency that grew for roughly 38 years with few acquisitions. Then they react to a Gary Vee clip about the monetization of random content, with Neil explaining how algorithms now find interested viewers and Eric adding that authenticity matters. They close with Neil's dislike of being filmed constantly and a bakery post that drew 130,000 likes. Pick the marketing style that fits you.

Key takeaways
◾Charge what you want and pay what makes sense, without lectures
◾If the business has not scaled in 10 years, a job is a fine option
◾Random content works best when it is authentic and fits you

Chapters
00:00 A $17K a month helper asks for more
01:45 Charge what you want, pay what makes sense
03:18 What the helper's team takes home
03:53 Why not just get a job?
05:54 Under $100K a year for years
07:00 No shame in getting a job
07:21 Equity upside at fast-growing companies
08:45 Editing skills can earn more inside a company
09:38 An agency that kept growing for decades
10:36 How a 38-year agency grew without acquisitions
12:47 No right or wrong way to build a business
13:46 Gary Vee: the monetization of random content
16:33 How algorithms find interested viewers
18:36 Post random content, but stay authentic
19:47 Being filmed at Web Summit
20:53 Why content has to fit your personality
22:20 A bakery's authentic viral post

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

An internet marketer cut his team from a couple hundred people to under 100 and credits AI and OpenClaw with the work. Eric Siu and Neil Patel explain why AI cannot handle marketing work alone.
Then Neil shares why he walked away from buying a European agency that is cutting staff to run on AI.

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Eric and Neil start with a well-known internet marketer who cut his team from a couple hundred people to under 100 and says AI and OpenClaw now do 20 to 30 times more work. Eric says that claim hurts the marketer's credibility, and that AI should elevate capabilities rather than eliminate jobs. Neil describes a call with a European e-commerce agency he decided not to acquire, because it planned to shrink to eight to ten people, said two or three people could run its ad spend, and had lost three of its four biggest clients. Eric lists where AI output still needs a human editor, including his YouTube channel, ad creative, AEO and SEO content, and X posts. They also cover AI metrics that do not match business results, and how to handle client expectations and feedback. Human judgment still decides marketing results.

Key takeaways
◾Cutting staff and crediting AI for it can hurt a marketer's credibility
◾AI output still needs human taste and an editor in the loop
◾Optimize for business results and client value, not AI-suggested views

Chapters
00:00 Internet marketer says AI replaced his staff
00:58 Does cutting jobs hurt credibility?
01:46 OpenClaw is unreliable
03:16 Marketers who talk about AI without knowing it
03:45 Neil's call about acquiring an agency
04:33 The agency plans to shrink to eight or ten people
06:22 Why the agency is losing clients
08:11 Up or out, and selling a company
09:08 AI cannot handle marketing work alone
10:20 How Eric's view of AI has shifted
11:37 AI feedback creates a bias toward views
12:58 Views versus revenue
14:13 Clients pay for results, not effort
15:34 Optimizing for revenue, not brand
16:39 Two types of consultants
17:52 Why feedback is a gift

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Meta Muse is now recommending products, and in one example it picked Beehiiv over Substack for a newsletter. Eric Siu and Neil Patel break down how to get recommended by AI: keep doing AEO and SEO, and get into new AI marketplaces and plugins early.
Plus how Grok helped Neil's co-founder beat a $7,600 Google quote with one under $5,000.

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Eric and Neil start with Rob Hoffman's example of Meta Muse recommending a client's product as the best option on the market, and Muse choosing Beehiiv over Substack for a newsletter. Eric says to get listed you still have to do more AEO and more SEO, and calls Muse, Grok and OpenAI the next surface for it. Neil shares how his co-founder got a $7,600 water softener quote from Google, then had Grok find more companies and chose a quote under $5,000. He says most businesses never see that revenue because they do not track it. They debate whether AI platforms will sell paid leads, and Eric says to get into new marketplaces and plugins the moment they open. They then turn to Meta's AI spending, the data center race, Karpathy's numbers on AI users, and AI capital spending as a share of GDP.

Key takeaways
◾To get recommended by AI, you still have to do more AEO and SEO
◾Get into new AI marketplaces and plugins as soon as they open
◾AI-driven leads are hard to track, so many businesses miss the revenue

Chapters
00:00 Meta Muse picks Beehiiv over Substack
01:01 Muse, Grok and OpenAI: the next surface for AEO
01:09 The revenue lost by not optimizing for AI
01:46 A $7,600 Google quote vs a Grok quote under $5K
03:16 The cost of not optimizing for new channels
04:36 Will AI tools offer businesses more leads?
06:07 Paid marketplaces inside AI platforms
06:56 Will AI platforms keep results pure?
08:13 Get into new marketplaces and plugins early
08:58 Meta's AI spending and the stock drop
10:05 Zuckerberg's all-in data center bet
10:54 Will AI demand outrun data centers?
11:54 AI in toilets, fridges and robots
13:00 Marketing to the robot that shops for you
13:17 Karpathy's numbers and why demand keeps growing
14:51 AI build-out as a share of GDP
15:36 Jevons paradox and autonomous ABM

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

An internet marketer cut his team from a couple hundred people to under 100 and credits AI and OpenClaw. Eric Siu and Neil Patel explain why AI cannot handle marketing work alone, and why clients pay for results, not effort.

They cover a $17K a month content agency, Gary Vee on the monetization of random content, and how Meta Muse recommended a client's product, which is why getting recommended by AI is the new AEO. They also get into paid marketplaces inside AI platforms, Zuckerberg's all-in data center bet, marketing to robots and agents, Forrester's prediction that agents will influence 75% of B2B buying, and Marc Andreessen on the AI-native gap.

They close on hiring people who are AI native and why the biggest AI ROI is getting recommended.

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Key takeaways
◾AI cannot handle marketing work alone, human judgment still matters
◾Getting recommended by AI is the new AEO and the biggest ROI
◾Hire for AI fluency, and spend on AI where it makes money

Chapters
00:00 Internet marketer says AI replaced his staff
01:46 OpenClaw is unreliable
03:45 Neil's call about acquiring an agency
06:22 Why the agency is losing clients
08:47 AI cannot handle marketing work alone
11:21 AI feedback creates a bias toward views
13:57 Clients pay for results, not effort
16:23 Two types of consultants
18:38 A $17K a month helper asks for more
21:56 What the helper's team takes home
24:32 Under $100K a year for years
25:59 Equity upside at fast-growing companies
28:16 An agency that kept growing for decades
31:25 No right or wrong way to build a business
32:24 Gary Vee: the monetization of random content
35:11 How algorithms find interested viewers
38:25 Being filmed at Web Summit
40:58 A bakery's authentic viral post
41:53 Meta Muse recommends a client's product
43:38 A water softener search story
45:30 The cost of not optimizing for new channels
47:59 Paid marketplaces inside AI platforms
50:07 Get into new marketplaces and plugins early
51:24 Zuckerberg's all-in data center bet
54:41 Marketing to robots and agents
56:46 AI build-out as a share of GDP
58:33 Forrester: agents will influence 75% of B2B buying
1:00:06 Do you still need an assistant?
1:02:00 What makes a good assistant
1:05:48 Marc Andreessen on the AI-native gap
1:09:03 Hiring people who are AI native
1:10:57 Eric wants both skills in one hire
1:13:36 Did Eric ever want to replace all humans?
1:16:52 The biggest AI ROI is getting recommended
1:18:13 What a low AI spend can still mean

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Accenture found some staff spending $1,000 a month on AI, so it set a $29 monthly limit per employee, and Eric and Neil both think the cap is smart. They point out that reported AI revenue can be gross rather than net, then cite Ramp's AI spend index, where the median is $11. They agree a policy needs exceptions for people who prove value, while Neil shares how he downgraded his ChatGPT plan. The back half covers two-slice teams, Bending Spoons' model of cutting most of a company, and Evernote going from 433 staff at its peak to about 30 today. They close on Berkshire Hathaway's $330M stake in Bending Spoons and the 41% jump in the stock. Spend with a reason.

Key takeaways
◾Accenture's $29 cap is smart, but proven high spenders should get exceptions
◾Most people pay for top models to do basic work, so match the model to the task
◾Evernote went from 433 staff at its peak to about 30 under Bending Spoons

Chapters
00:00 Accenture caps AI spend at $29 a month
00:23 Did staff really spend $1,000 a month?
01:53 Reported AI revenue is often gross, not net
03:31 Ramp's AI spend index: median is $11
04:14 Set a policy, then talk to top spenders
04:56 Exceptions for people proving value
05:45 Neil downgrades his ChatGPT plan
06:39 A 45-minute AI session that is worth it
08:26 Two-slice teams, not two-pizza teams
09:30 Pirate and architect: coordination drag
10:25 Small teams ship faster
12:00 Meta's 200 people out of 70,000
12:39 Bending Spoons: a private equity model
14:04 A layoff post that also launches features
15:24 Evernote: 433 staff at peak, about 30 now
16:18 Why public markets accept deep cuts
17:07 Berkshire's $330M stake, stock up 41%

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Eric and Neil say the rule of 7 has grown toward the rule of 28, and that buyers touch a brand 8 times for a sub-$100 B2C buy and 23 times at $10K-plus. A gelato shop stranger who knew them from different places makes the case that you never know where people will find you. They cover why YouTube drives leads that nobody can attribute, then Meta's $14.9B deal for 49% of Scale AI and the 200-person AI team that Alexander Wang, the former Scale AI CEO, leads. Zuckerberg's line that talent density beats big teams for AI is tested against Meta's 70,000 staff. Neil explains his private equity mindset and his debt at SOFR plus 2%, and they close on the failures that come with big bets. Attention, talent and the cost of big bets.

Key takeaways

◾Buyers touch a brand 8 times for a cheap B2C buy and 23 times at $10K-plus

◾Meta built a 200-person AI team out of 70,000 staff, which Zuckerberg calls talent density

◾Meta paid $14.9B for 49% of Scale AI, and Eric says the bet looks like it is paying off

Chapters

00:00 Rule of 7 is now the rule of 28

00:44 Touches before buying: 8 cheap, 23 at $10K+

01:34 A gelato shop stranger, and where people find you

03:53 YouTube drives leads you cannot attribute

04:27 Platforms stop sharing data

06:23 Meta's 200-person AI team, talent over size

07:36 Neil's private equity mindset

09:18 Zuckerberg asks peers what they would do

10:44 Neil's debt: SOFR plus 2%

13:14 Pain now for a bigger company later

14:17 Failures: rockets, timelines and the metaverse

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Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Eric and Neil start with X Money, which pays 3% cash back and 6% interest, and argue that the offer is under marketed and would get more people investing. They test an AI-written blog post on a client, who took it for human writing, then cover a time-on-page chart that compares human and AI content. They debate whether writing is thinking and whether a real name still beats AI copy. Dan Shipper's claim that newsletters are dying, from a writer with over 120,000 subscribers, leads to a debate on email, AI summaries in the inbox and whether YouTube is S-tier. They close on every channel getting more competitive over time. Human voice still earns the trust.

Key takeaways

◾X Money pays 3% cash back and 6% interest, but the 3% has fine print

◾A human byline near the title held readers longer in their time-on-page test

◾Eric and Neil dispute Dan Shipper's claim that newsletters are dead

Chapters

00:00 X Money: 6% interest

04:07 The AI blog post test

10:01 Potato, SpaceX and GrokBot

10:33 Writing is thinking

14:26 Which channels are S-tier

15:47 Are newsletters dead?

17:06 AI summaries and the inbox

18:46 Every channel gets more competitive

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Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Eric and Neil open with Tesla's Roadster flying car, which they treat as a marketing stunt that keeps Tesla in the conversation. The AI fluency gap follows, with Karpathy's funnel, where most people barely touch an LLM, and agents that still misfire. Next is X Money and the newsletter debate, then a blog post test that a client took for human writing. The back half covers the rule of 28, Meta's 200-person AI team inside a 70,000 staff company, and why YouTube leads are hard to attribute. The show ends on Accenture's $29 monthly AI cap, Ramp's AI spend index and Bending Spoons' cuts at Evernote. Attention, trust and spend with a reason.

Key takeaways

◾Accenture's $29 AI cap is smart, but proven high spenders should get exceptions

◾Meta built a 200-person AI team out of 70,000 staff, which Zuckerberg calls talent density

◾Tesla's flying Roadster is a stunt, and agents still need a human check

Chapters

00:00 Tesla's flying car stunt

04:56 Is the Roadster $50,000 or $250,000?

09:48 Why Porsche lost its edge

12:22 Agents, not models

13:58 Agents still unreliable in marketing

17:19 Karpathy's AI-gap funnel

20:00 Agent slop and the cost of rework

21:00 Workflows as a service

22:08 X Money: 6% interest

26:34 The AI blog post test

32:08 Potato, SpaceX and GrokBot

32:41 Writing is thinking

36:34 Which channels are S-tier

37:55 Are newsletters dead?

41:24 Rule of 7 is now the rule of 28

45:17 YouTube drives leads you cannot attribute

47:47 Meta's 200-person AI team, talent over size

49:00 Neil's private equity mindset

52:08 Neil's debt: SOFR plus 2%

55:41 Failures: rockets, timelines and the metaverse

56:42 Accenture caps AI spend at $29 a month

1:00:14 Ramp's AI spend index: median is $11

1:02:09 Neil downgrades his ChatGPT plan

1:03:03 A 45-minute AI session that is worth it

1:04:49 Two-slice teams, not two-pizza teams

1:09:02 Bending Spoons: a private equity model

1:11:47 Evernote: 433 staff at peak, about 30 now

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Some agencies win clients by inviting decision makers to Formula One boxes, but Neil prefers the way banks play the wine and dining game. Bank of America sent his CFO to a World Cup game with the hotel paid, and Wells Fargo offers suites and seats after the deal is done, just to say thanks. Then a competing bank tried to match Wells Fargo's refinance offer at the last minute, after months of saying no. Eric shares a group text pitch dressed up as comparing notes, and Neil tells the worst pitch he's heard: a financial advisor chasing a friend's $25M house sale and eight-figure profit with one cherry-picked account and a stock that barely moves down. A blunt episode on relationships and selling.

Key takeaways

◾Thank-you tickets with no pitch keep clients around

◾Match the offer early, because last-minute fixes come too late

◾Be direct when you sell, and show all your numbers

Chapters

00:00 The wine and dining game

00:47 Competitors win clients with Formula One boxes

01:30 Bank of America sent our CFO to the World Cup

02:32 Wells Fargo offers tickets after the deal

03:39 Tickets with no sales pitch keep clients

04:44 The bank that came too late

05:48 Too little, too late, like a bad hire

06:33 Steve Jobs to Tim Cook: do the right thing

07:18 Group texts gone wrong

08:49 Selling while pretending not to sell

09:50 The worst sales pitch

10:52 One client account next to Buffett and Ackman

12:05 70% leverage and 'it barely moves down'

12:58 AI showed the stock drops far more often

13:44 Big investors get deals you don't

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Eric built thumbnail, editing and posting skills, and his long-form YouTube videos went from about 500 views to 15,000 to 25,000. Some of the team wouldn't use them, so they had to let people go, and the one person who stepped up is now fixing the Marketing School channel's trends, thumbnails and 30-second retention. Neil says AI optimizes for average, which still beats a below-average team, but you need humans in the loop. They cover Bain's 94% stat, why Neil would rather hire great marketers and teach them AI, and a senior SEO candidate who read straight off a Claude template. Then Neil's Zappos story, how Uber outspent Lyft, why AI rewards whoever raises billions, and Neil's Muse outreach to M&A advisors. An honest episode on AI skills and hiring.

Key takeaways

◾Skills only work when someone spends real time tuning them

◾Hire people who stay curious and put their best foot forward

◾Small touches like Zappos' overnight shoes build loyalty

Chapters

00:00 We got more views by firing

00:51 Skills took Eric's videos from 500 views to 25K

02:13 Cover the trend first, fix thumbnails and retention

02:56 Neil: AI optimizes for average

04:01 You still need humans in the loop

04:46 Bain's 94% and the coming job displacement

05:30 How we hire marketers now

06:36 A senior SEO candidate read off a Claude template

08:38 Lazy before the contract means worse after

09:46 The agency hire who said they're too slow

10:31 Hire people who never stop learning

11:12 Small touches build brands

12:38 Fundamentals move metrics more than campaigns

13:48 Uber won by subsidizing more than Lyft

15:08 Why a cheap Waymo rival can't win

16:10 AI rewards whoever raises billions

17:11 Muse is taking the market

17:58 Neil's Muse outreach lands a UK call

18:51 Red flags in the deals bankers pitch

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Someone added $500K in ARR in a week by putting their app in ChatGPT plugins, and Eric wants Carrot, Answer the Public and Ubersuggest in there too. Neil says that at scale, plugins help retention more than revenue. He's also seeing clients arrive with business problems instead of asks, like revenue down 6% and leads down 32%, and Eric says that grows the market for agencies. Then customer service as marketing: a SpaceX growth lead fixing Grokbot before a webinar, On refunding an order without telling Eric, and Neil's Marriott check-in. They compare the Ritz-Carlton's budget to go beyond policy with Airbnb's 9-star idea, then trade travel tips on room service, compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage. A practical episode on plugins and service.

Key takeaways

◾ChatGPT plugins are a distribution channel worth building for

◾Pitch the fix for the client's business problem, whatever the channel

◾Bending policy to fix a mistake earns word of mouth

Chapters

00:00 Plugins add $500K in ARR

01:13 Neil: plugins help retention more than revenue

02:05 Clients bring problems now

03:10 Revenue down 6%, leads down 32%

04:17 Solving the whole problem set grows the TAM

04:58 Customer service is marketing

06:06 On.com's surprise refund and split order

08:03 Neil's Marriott check-in

09:22 Charged for the night before, told to wait

10:11 A room appeared once it was their fault

10:58 Grokbot support hid behind policy

11:55 Ritz-Carlton and Airbnb's 9-star experience

12:39 Four Seasons prices, Disney cruise experience

13:56 Room service, laundry and one carry-on

14:48 Compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage

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It's Q4, so Eric and Neil run through their business and marketing highlights and lowlights for the year. Eric's win was hiring AI-native people after learning he couldn't train everyone, and Neil's was the lowest churn in a long time. Neil explains bankruptcy clawbacks, where the lawyers always win, with FTX legal fees near $700M, and how tariffs and war cut client budgets. Eric's team now makes and manages bots, including one that shortlists recruits every day. On marketing, YouTube is bringing enterprise leads, Neil found out he did 12.7M views in 30 days, and Gavin Baker reports 80% of token spend has flipped to open-weight models. Eric covers outbound, wedges and Higgsfield's weekly launches, and Neil explains why he wants the chill life. A candid look back at the year.

Key takeaways

◾Hire adaptable, AI-native people instead of trying to train everyone

◾Let bots handle evaluation work like recruiting shortlists

◾Test lots of ideas cheaply, then back the ones with traction

Chapters

00:00 Q4 business highlights

00:44 Eric's lowlight: thinking he could train people

01:28 Neil's lowest churn in years

02:32 Bankruptcy clawbacks and legal drama

03:29 Lawyers always win: FTX's $700M in fees

04:43 Tariffs, war and budgets

06:20 Optimistic about 2027?

07:05 Payment plans for groceries

08:31 We make and manage bots

09:13 Recruiters who say they can't build it

10:00 Marketing highlights

10:47 Enterprise leads who found us on YouTube

11:32 Ad Age's performance marketing agency of the year

13:33 Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days

14:38 A slow speaking summer, two months at home

15:37 Neil only buys companies at a good deal

16:21 Best returns with the least stress

17:14 Outbound, wedges and 15-minute standups

18:39 Skillsdojo: pair engineers with marketers

19:43 Crank out 100 ideas, double down on winners

20:48 Gavin Baker: 80% of token spend flipped

21:46 Higgsfield ships a new feature every week

22:28 Neil does better in services than tech

23:42 Think like a capital allocator

25:08 Neil just wants the chill life

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How to grow a YouTube channel with AI, win clients with the wine and dining game, and use ChatGPT plugins for growth. Eric's AI skills for thumbnails, editing and posting took his long-form views from about 500 to 15,000 to 25,000, and the people who wouldn't use them had to go. Neil says AI optimizes for average, and they cover hiring and why AI rewards whoever raises billions. Then the wine and dining game: Formula One boxes, Bank of America and Wells Fargo tickets, and a financial advisor's pitch after a friend's $25M house sale. Next, ChatGPT plugins adding $500K in ARR, clients arriving with leads down 32%, and service stories from Grokbot, On and Marriott. They finish with Q4 highlights and lowlights, from recruiting bots to Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days. The whole conversation in one place.

Key takeaways

◾Skills only work when someone spends real time tuning them

◾Thank-you tickets with no pitch keep clients around

◾Pitch the fix for the client's business problem, whatever the channel

Chapters

00:00 We got more views by firing

00:51 Skills took Eric's videos from 500 views to 25K

02:13 Cover the trend first, fix thumbnails and retention

02:56 Neil: AI optimizes for average

04:01 You still need humans in the loop

04:46 Bain's 94% and the coming job displacement

05:30 How we hire marketers now

06:17 A senior SEO candidate read off a Claude template

08:19 Lazy before the contract means worse after

09:27 The agency hire who said they're too slow

10:11 Hire people who never stop learning

10:53 Small touches build brands

12:19 Fundamentals move metrics more than campaigns

13:29 Uber won by subsidizing more than Lyft

14:48 Why a cheap Waymo rival can't win

15:51 AI rewards whoever raises billions

16:52 Muse is taking the market

17:38 Neil's Muse outreach lands a UK call

18:31 Red flags in the deals bankers pitch

19:25 The wine and dining game

20:12 Competitors win clients with Formula One boxes

20:55 Bank of America sent our CFO to the World Cup

21:56 Wells Fargo offers tickets after the deal

23:03 Tickets with no sales pitch keep clients

24:06 The bank that came too late

25:09 Too little, too late, like a bad hire

25:55 Steve Jobs to Tim Cook: do the right thing

26:39 Group texts gone wrong

28:10 Selling while pretending not to sell

29:12 The worst sales pitch

30:14 One client account next to Buffett and Ackman

31:26 70% leverage and 'it barely moves down'

32:20 AI showed the stock drops far more often

33:06 Big investors get deals you don't

33:53 Plugins add $500K in ARR

35:06 Neil: plugins help retention more than revenue

35:58 Clients bring problems now

37:03 Revenue down 6%, leads down 32%

38:09 Solving the whole problem set grows the TAM

38:51 Customer service is marketing

39:59 On.com's surprise refund and split order

41:40 Neil's Marriott check-in

42:59 Charged for the night before, told to wait

43:48 A room appeared once it was their fault

44:35 Grokbot support hid behind policy

45:32 Ritz-Carlton and Airbnb's 9-star experience

46:16 Four Seasons prices, Disney cruise experience

47:32 Room service, laundry and one carry-on

48:25 Compression bags and Sterling Pacific luggage

50:17 Q4 business highlights

51:01 Eric's lowlight: thinking he could train people

52:04 Neil's lowest churn in years

53:08 Bankruptcy clawbacks and legal drama

54:05 Lawyers always win: FTX's $700M in fees

55:19 Tariffs, war and budgets

56:56 Optimistic about 2027?

57:41 Payment plans for groceries

59:07 We make and manage bots

59:49 Recruiters who say they can't build it

1:00:37 Marketing highlights

1:01:24 Enterprise leads who found us on YouTube

1:02:08 Ad Age's performance marketing agency of the year

1:03:54 Neil's 12.7M views in 30 days

1:04:58 A slow speaking summer, two months at home

1:05:57 Neil only buys companies at a good deal

1:06:41 Best returns with the least stress

1:07:35 Outbound, wedges and 15-minute standups

1:09:00 Skillsdojo: pair engineers with marketers

1:10:03 Crank out 100 ideas, double down on winners

1:11:08 Gavin Baker: 80% of token spend flipped

1:12:06 Higgsfield ships a new feature every week

1:12:48 Neil does better in services than tech

1:14:02 Think like a capital allocator

1:15:28 Neil just wants the chill life

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Why versus pages are your secret SEO weapon. Noah Kagan shipped 19 SEO pages from a $20 Mac app and got six sales in three days, and Eric breaks down the two page types every product needs: versus pages and best-for guides. Neil adds two fixes, getting other sites to publish them and comparing the brands ChatGPT and Claude already recommend, and says comparison pages drive more revenue than listicles. Then Instinct: 10% daily growth, 40% of users adding a card, and why Neil would sell it to Apple. Sam Lessin says there is no moat in AI agents, Neil's Muse test turns hundreds of drafts into three sent emails, and Outrank's data shows sites with 400+ links got 115% more Google clicks. A practical episode on SEO and AI agents.

Key takeaways

◾Build versus and alternative pages for the competitors AI already cites

◾AI agents have little loyalty, so the product has to keep earning it

◾Linkable assets still move Google clicks

Chapters

00:00 Noah Kagan's 19 SEO pages and 6 sales

01:16 Neil: get other sites to publish your pages

02:38 Listicles are the new links

03:39 Comparison pages drive more revenue than listicles

04:02 Instinct: 10% a day, 40% add a card

05:21 Neil: Instinct should sell to Apple

06:37 Eric bets the founder sells

07:39 Apple could build this itself

08:24 Sam Lessin: there is no moat in AI agents

10:02 Neil's Muse test: hundreds of drafts, 3 sent

13:47 Every's personal agent comparison

14:24 Jev as a classifier for a fraction of a penny

16:36 Nobody is loyal to an AI product

17:37 Outrank: 400+ links, 115% more Google clicks

19:48 Neil: building something good? Ignore the hate

20:58 Linkable assets beat bought links

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Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil's team won a $6M, three-year SEO contract without talking about SEO: they pitched the business problem, the board's numbers and the ROI. Eric reads the September jobs report, 29,000 jobs against a 90,000 forecast, and they agree that without AI growth the economy would be in recession. Neil shares a grocery bill and a moment at Target, and his plan to stop taxing people under $100K. Then agents: Latin America's biggest retailer, optimizing for LLMs to choose you, and Eric's Meta agent haggling 40% off an order from On. Eric covers OpenAI's Dots and its new distribution channels to 1 billion monthly users, and they close on X Money's 6% offer. A grounded episode on selling in hard times.

Key takeaways
◾Pitch the business outcome, not rankings or links
◾Optimize for AI agents to choose you, not just list you
◾A great offer still beats a clever pitch

Chapters
00:00 Neil's team won a $6M SEO deal without talking SEO
01:28 Sell the business case, not features
03:23 September jobs report: no AI, recession
04:26 Neil's grocery bill and the grandma at Target
06:47 Bridging the gap to abundance
07:26 Neil's tax plan for people under $100K
08:49 How to win any deal: solve their problem
09:35 Latin America's biggest retailer and AI agents
10:35 Optimize for LLMs to choose you
12:28 Eric's Meta agent haggles 40% off at On
14:01 Neil won't let AI near his travel
14:47 OpenAI's Dots spots errors in your email
15:36 Dot.com is owned by SpaceX
16:08 OpenAI's 1B MAU distribution channels
17:21 Microsoft and Google will undercut the labs
18:23 X Money: 6% on cash, 3% back
20:36 Neil wants his cash back in SpaceX stock

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AI labs are paying millions of dollars for company data through third parties, so should you sell yours? Neil says it depends on the business model, and Eric warns the labs will use that data to compete with you. Then a Bain study: only 6% of marketers say AI has had a significant impact on performance. Eric explains why that matches the top slice of any company, Neil shares the three places AI is actually winning for clients, and an a16z chart shows just 2.2% of households pay for AI. They explain why they stopped hiring clippers after YouTube's originality update, why niche videos bring qualified leads, and how Neil now picks topics from his sales pipeline. An honest episode on data and content.

Key takeaways
◾Do not sell data that lets the labs compete with you
◾AI only pays when it is aimed at work that moves revenue
◾Original, niche content beats clipped reach

Chapters
00:00 Should you sell your data to the AI labs?
02:06 Data is the moat as models converge
02:51 Eric's YouTube videos are driving leads
03:45 Bain: only 6% of marketers see AI impact
05:13 Neil asks: how many of you are growing?
06:10 Neil's top 3 AI wins in marketing
07:29 AI amplifies effort, and only 2.2% of homes pay
08:59 Why we stopped hiring clippers
09:58 YouTube's originality update for Shorts
11:54 Neil's team wanted 10 clip channels
12:58 Eric no longer needs an editor or a poster
13:32 Niche content brings qualified leads
15:27 Neil's channel: topics from the sales pipeline
16:52 Long form once a month, shorts twice

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Instinct, the AI agent that lives in iMessage, is growing 10% a day, and Eric says its 23-year-old founder proves you do not need a personal brand to win. Neil explains why personal brands worked five years ago, why Neil Patel Digital became NP Digital to cut key man risk, and why shoppers now switch brands on a dime. Eric shares DHH's talk on all the things his team no longer does, and the OpenRouter chart where agents use 7.5 trillion tokens against 1 trillion for humans. Then the bill arrives: finance teams pushing back on AI spend, a friend burning $14K a day on tokens, and Hormozi's memo capping his team's AI budget. They close on hiring AI-native people who can keep up. A sharp episode on brand and AI spend.

Key takeaways
◾People buy the product now, not the founder's personal brand
◾Every AI tool needs an ROI number, not an estimate of time saved
◾Hire people who are AI native and can prove a return

Chapters
00:00 Instinct grows 10% a day, no personal brand needed
01:21 Lisa Su's Formula One badge moment
02:06 Personal brands worked five years ago
02:41 Why Neil Patel Digital became NP Digital
04:01 Shoppers now switch brands on a dime
05:32 It has never been easier to make
06:19 DHH: look at all the things I'm not doing
07:34 Agent tokens now dwarf human tokens
10:50 Finance teams push back on AI spend
11:32 A teammate maxed out the Ahrefs tokens
13:02 A friend spends $14K a day on tokens
13:44 B2B tools ship too many features
14:49 Hormozi's AI usage cap memo
16:44 Training won't fix a mindset
18:28 Hire AI-native people who can keep up

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Eric shares how Cody Schneider works as an AI-native marketer, and Neil talks about his interview on Cole Gordon's show and why research is what separates a good interview. Then Neil says out loud that his personal brand is dying, judged by fewer photo requests at events, and Eric explains it with the four burners theory and the shift from social media to interest media. They talk about the content an experienced operator should make, why Neil keeps playing the game, and Eric's travel stats. The close covers why brand takes ten years or more, YouTube's coming thumbnail tests by audience segment, and Clay's CEO on why brand has to start with the founder, not the CMO. An honest episode about brand, time and attention.

Key takeaways
◾Interest media rewards the post, not the follower count
◾A real brand takes ten years or more to build
◾Brand starts with the founder; a CMO cannot install it

Chapters
00:00 The AI-native marketer: Cody Schneider
01:36 Neil on Cole Gordon's podcast
04:24 Research is what makes an interview good
04:54 'My personal brand is dying'
06:35 The four burners theory
07:19 Social media became interest media
09:03 What Neil's team does for him now
12:49 Addicted to the game
13:27 Eric's travel stats
16:36 Which speaking gigs are worth it
17:54 Brand takes 10+ years
20:03 SEO has always evolved
20:24 YouTube's big changes: thumbnails by segment
22:11 Clay: brand starts with the founder