Mind & Life

In this season opener, producer Phil Walker introduces the Mind & Life Podcast’s new host, health psychologist and contemplative scientist David Creswell. They talk about how David’s research has evolved since his 2023 guest appearance on the podcast, why the hardest moments in meditation may be where the real training happens, and what listeners can expect this season. Then David turns the tables and asks Phil what producing the previous 84 episodes of the podcast has taught him.

In this episode:

• thanking former host Wendy Hasenkamp for 84 episodes over five-plus years
• an experimental health psychologist working at the boundaries of disciplines
• mindfulness training for irritable bowel syndrome and the gut microbiome
• the meditation app revolution, and why so few people keep practicing
• learning from an app vs. a teacher and a group
• meditation as “a gym workout, not a massage”
• equanimity reps and leaning into discomfort
• scientists, industry, and new conflicts of interest
• what 84 episodes taught Phil, and his favorite conversation
• the Dalai Lama as listener: the podcast as dialogue
• a preview of this season, and a glimpse of 2027

Full show notes and resources

To conclude this mini-series, guest host Jamie Bristow is joined by Gretchen Steidle, cathy-mae karelse and Rufus Pollock to step back from individual approaches explored so far and consider the wider field they are collectively helping to shape. As interest in contemplative approaches to social and ecological transformation continues to grow, how do we make sense of a rapidly expanding landscape of people, projects, organisations and ideas? Together, they discuss the importance of mapping emerging fields: not simply to catalogue what exists, but to help practitioners find one another, foster collaboration, identify gaps, and make the field more visible to researchers, funders and institutions. The conversation also explores what it takes for an emerging movement to develop coherence, legitimacy and shared purpose. Bringing the series to a close, it offers a hopeful bird's-eye view of a field that is beginning to recognise itself, and asks what might be needed for its next stage of maturity.

cathy-mae karelse, PhD, a changemaker and scholar practitioner who leads Climate Youth Resilience, a global south-facing program that approaches climate resilience and systems change from the inside out.

Rufus Pollock, who is co-founder of Life Itself and the Second Renaissance Initiatives and is focused on inner-led social change to renew our civilization's foundations.

Gretchen Steidle, Director of Spirituality and Social Change at the Garrison Institute and Chief Weaver for the Conscious Change Collective, a network of practitioners

Full show notes and resources

In this episode of the mini-series on systems change, guest host Jamie Bristow turns the lens around. Rather than beginning with a particular inner approach and asking what it might offer, the conversation starts with the system itself: the patterns, power dynamics and meaning-making structures that shape the crises we face. Joined by Rachel Lilley, Thomas Legrand, and Wakanyi Macharia-Hoffman, Jamie explores why contemplative and embodied approaches may be vital not only for shifting deep leverage points such as worldview and values, but also for helping systems practitioners navigate complexity, bias, and uncertainty. From food systems and public policy to AI, Ubuntu, and embodied systems leadership, the discussion ranges widely while staying grounded in a central question: what does it take to work with systems in ways that are more relational, reflective, and transformative? The result is a rich conversation about inner-led change, viewed through a broader systems lens.

Thomas Legrand is Lead Advisor for the UNDP-convened Conscious Food Systems Alliance, and the author of Politics of Being: wisdom and science for a new development paradigm.

Rachel Lilley is an Associate Professor at the University of Birmingham, where she is programme director of the MSc in Systems Thinking and Leadership and pioneers the integration of embodied practice and inner inquiry into systems practice.

Wakanyi Macharia-Hoffman is an Ubuntu philosophy thinker, the founder of African Folktales Project and the director of African AI Design Research at Inclusive AI Lab, Utrecht University. , where she bridges indigenous African knowledge for inner human development with AI design ethics.

Full show notes and resources

Jon Kabat-Zinn didn't invent MBSR as a stress reduction programme. He created it as a way of meeting suffering—individual, collective, planetary—with greater clarity and care. Somewhere in the journey to the mainstream, that wider vision narrowed in the public conception. This episode is, in part, a return to the source.

Guest host Jamie Bristow is joined by Jon Kabat-Zinn, Paula Ramírez Díazgranados and Liane Stephan to explore what mindfulness becomes when it is brought back into relationship with the world: with trauma and conflict, with institutions and food systems, with the tragedy of ecological crisis. Their conversation moves through medicine, humanitarian response and sustainability work, but the deeper thread running through all of it is relational: the question of what contemplative practice can offer when the patient is not only the individual, but the communities and systems we are part of.

The result is a wide-ranging and genuinely hopeful conversation about resilience, interdependence and the fuller promise of mindfulness in a time that needs more than personal wellbeing.

• Jon Kabat-Zinn is internationally known for his work as a scientist, writer, and meditation teacher engaged in bringing mindfulness into the mainstream of medicine and society including MBSR (Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction). He is professor of medicine emeritus at the University of Massachusetts Medical School and author of numerous books, including Full Catastrophe Living, Arriving at Your Own Door, Coming to Our Senses, and Mindfulness Meditation for Pain Relief
• Paula Ramírez Díazgranados is a Colombian anthropologist, peacebuilder, therapist, and somatic facilitator whose work integrates trauma-sensitive mindfulness, Somatic Experiencing, ancestral practice, and cultural and ecological wisdom. Since 2009, she has worked across more than 20 countries with individuals, communities, and humanitarian teams navigating trauma, systemic violence, displacement, and recovery. She is co-director of RESPIRA in Colombia and Breathe/Emerge International, organizations that combine peacebuilding and mental health through the restoration of human resilience.
• Liane Stephan is the co-founder and CEO of Awaris GmbH and co-founder of the Inner Green Deal. With more than three decades of experience in leadership development, mindfulness, systemic organizational development, and culture change, she supports leaders, teams, and organizations in cultivating resilience, awareness, and sustainable transformation. She is also co-author of The Resilient Culture: How Collective Resilience Leads to Business Success.

Full show notes and resources

In this panel conversation, guest host Jamie Bristow is joined by Katrin Kaufer, Martin Kalungu-Banda and Megan Seneque to explore Theory U and the wider field of awareness-based systems change. Developed through the Presencing Institute, Theory U is one of the most widely applied approaches to systems change that explicitly integrates contemplative practice with collective transformation. Together, they examine how this work helps people move beyond habitual responses, deepen the quality of attention and relationship, and create the conditions for new futures to emerge. The conversation ranges from leadership and social innovation to public health, higher education, research, and global systems work, while also asking harder questions about evidence, integrity, access, and scale. The result is a rich and searching exploration of what it means to work with complexity in ways that are rigorous, relational, and open to emergence.

• Dr. Katrin Kaufer, is co-founding member and managing director of the Presencing Institute. She is also director of the Just Money program at MIT's Community Innovation Lab, CoLab, where she also teaches.
• Martin Kalungu-Banda, is a leadership and organizational development practitioner who works across business, government, and civil society. He's visiting fellow at Oxford Said Business School, a core faculty member with the Presencing Institute and co-founder of the Ubuntu Lab Institute, bringing a strong practice lens on adaptive leadership and systems change.
• Dr. Megan Seneque, is an associate with the Presencing Institute and a member of the editorial team with the Journal of Awareness-Based Systems Change hosted by the Presencing Institute. She is also a research associate at the University of Roehampton in London, an honorary fellow with the Crawford School of Public Policy at the Australian National University.

In the second panel conversation of this mini-series, guest host Jamie Bristow is joined by Laura Calderón de la Barca, Kazu Haga and Thomas Hübl to explore the rising significance of trauma healing for systems change. As trauma moves from the margins to the mainstream, the conversation asks what we are really naming when we speak of trauma, and how unprocessed experience shapes not only individual lives, but relationships, communities and whole societies. Together, they reflect on the growing recognition that healing need not be a solitary pursuit, and that collective, systemic and intergenerational approaches may be vital in an age of compounding crises. The result is a thoughtful and far-reaching conversation about whether our capacity to relate wisely to trauma may help determine how we meet the pressures of a rapidly changing and imperiled world.

• Laura Calderón de la Barca, PhD is a psychotherapist specialized in collective, systemic and intergenerational trauma, as well as a collective healing researcher, educator, consultant, and lead author of Healing Systems, the #1 read article of the Stanford Social Innovation Review for 2024
• Kazu Haga is an educator and practitioner with over 25 years of experience in nonviolence, restorative justice and trauma healing work, and author of Fierce Vulnerability: Healing from Trauma, Emerging from Collapse.
• Thomas Hübl, PhD, is a renowned teacher, author, and international facilitator who works within the complexity of systems and cultural change by integrating the core insights of the great wisdom traditions and mysticism with the discoveries of science.

In the first panel conversation of this mini-series, guest host Jamie Bristow is joined by Shayontoni Ghosh, Chris Johnstone, Stephanie Kaza and Phoebe Tickell to explore the legacy and living relevance of Joanna Macy’s Work That Reconnects - a pioneering contemplative process that helps people face ecological and social crisis without shutting down. Together, they reflect on how this work moves from gratitude, grief and reconnection into courage, imagination and action. They examine Joanna’s enduring influence, the evolution of Active Hope, the workshop practices that have touched lives around the world, and the challenge of adapting this work across cultures, generations and institutions. The result is a rich, energising conversation about how inner transformation can strengthen our collective response to a world in trouble.

• Shayontoni Ghosh is a writer, theatre-maker and facilitator, who is on the staff team at the Work That Reconnects Network.
• Chris Johnstone is a resilience specialist involved with the Work that Reconnects for over 40 years, and co-author of the book Active Hope with Joanna Macy.
• Stephanie Kaza is Professor Emerita from the University of Vermont (UVM) and the author/editor of many books and articles on Buddhist environmental thought, including A Wild Love for the World: Joanna Macy and the Work of Our Time.
• Phoebe Tickell is a scientist and social entrepreneur whose mentorship by Joanna helped her to create Moral Imaginations, an organisation that is building a movement of change agents through the training of moral imagination.

In this episode, Mind & Life co-producer Phil Walker speaks with writer and policy advisor Jamie Bristow as a prelude to our upcoming mini-series on systems change. Over the coming weeks, Jamie will serve as guest host for five episodes with expert panelists diving into a variety of topics on contemplative based systems change.

As our world grows in complexity, we also find ourselves more interconnected than ever with profound challenges that often require cooperation across diverse groups with different values or goals. Systems change refers to efforts to shift the underlying structures, relationships, power dynamics, and mindsets that shape how complex systems behave. These efforts increasingly recognize that inner dimensions—such as awareness, values, and ways of relating—play a critical role in enabling lasting change. In this interview, Jamie shares key concepts of systems change and highlight areas that will be explored throughout the five episodes of the mini-series:

• The Work that Reconnects: Enlivening our response with active hope
• Healing Systems: Integrating trauma for social change
• Theory U: Guiding awareness-based systems change
• Social and Ecological Mindfulness: Connecting personal and planetary health
• Mindset Shift: Transforming whole systems with contemplative approaches

Since this podcast launched, Wendy Hasenkamp has guided listeners through 84 in-depth conversations, bringing warmth, curiosity, and intellectual depth to every episode. After five years with the show and over 13 years with the Mind & Life Institute, Wendy is stepping into a new chapter, returning to school and pursuing studies to become a clinical herbalist. While we’ll miss her deeply, we’re excited about this new path for her, where she will surely continue to share her wisdom and guide others toward greater well-being and connection. In this special episode, Mind & Life co-producer Phil Walker sits down with Wendy for a conversation reflecting on her time as host—the insights gained, the themes that emerged, and the questions that continue to inspire her. They cover many topics, including:

• her own path into contemplative science;
• finding a home in the Mind & Life community;
• the dialogue between Buddhism and science;
• supporting science education for Tibetan monastics;
• science communication, nuance & mindfulness hype;
• how this podcast was born and evolved over time;
• the importance of open-mindedness and critique in science;
• some key themes that emerged from years of conversations with leading thinkers and scholars;
• reckoning with an interdependent self;
• the problem of othering;
• mind-body connection;
• reflections on where contemplative science has been and where it’s going;
• interconnectedness with nature;
• and her next steps in the world of herbalism and holistic medicine.

Full show notes and resources

Enjoy this episode with renowned meditation teacher, author, and creator of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), Jon Kabat-Zinn. This spacious and personal conversation is full of insights on a wide range of topics, including:

• what drew him to meditation;
• his development of and vision for Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR);
• the mystery of the line between the inside and outside of any system;
• adapting Buddhist practices for Western audiences;
• how mindfulness has been taken up in society, and science as a main driver;
• moving from "me" to "we";
• the challenges of repeatability in scientific studies of meditation;
• weaving together art and science;
• and how 50+ years of meditation has changed him.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with Zen Buddhist teacher and author Roshi Joan Halifax. A pioneer in the field of end-of-life care, Roshi Joan was instrumental in developing the dialogue between science and Buddhism, and has been an advocate for engaged Buddhism, social activism, and compassion in response to today's crises. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• the birth of dialogues between the Dalai Lama and scientists;
• how our minds are "enactive";
• compassion as emergent and dependent on context;
• the trainable factors that set the stage for compassion;
• the importance of embodiment in health care;
• non-referential compassion;
• interdependence, compassion, and climate change;
• working with dying people;
• how letting go is safe;
• clinical use of psychedelics;
• and reflections on the field of contemplative science.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode from the Mind & Life archive, Wendy spoke with the renowned Buddhist practitioner and author Matthieu Ricard. Matthieu was integral to the founding of contemplative science, serving as both a participant and co-investigator in many early studies, and has deep expertise in compassion, altruism, and well-being. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• his roots in both science and Buddhism, and his appreciation for rigorous inquiry;
• his role as a participant and collaborator in contemplative science;
• lessons from research on compassion vs. empathy;
• how the self shows up (or doesn't) in compassion;
• links between self-focus and vulnerability;
• hedonia, eudiamonia, and self;
• altruism and our current crises;
• reconciling three time scales of concern;
• sentience, life, and interdependence;
• caring for our whole interconnected system;
• the practice of awe;
• using photography to share basic human goodness;
• balancing fame and monastic life;
• and a poignant example of his own personal experience of care.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with Buddhist scholar and meditation teacher Liz Monson. Liz is one of the pioneers in combining Buddhist teachings with nature-based practices, and her work helps us connect in an embodied way to the fundamental interconnectedness of the world. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• how spirituality and connection to nature fed into her path to Buddhism;
• nature-based practices in the Buddhist tradition;
• moving beyond human-centrism;
• the energies of the natural world;
• the sandcastle of the constructed self;
• why human beings are really here;
• lessons about human nature from 9/11;
• wisdom from the trees;
• practices to connect with the elements of nature;
• working with elemental energies to understand emotions;
• understanding the divine masculine and feminine archetypes;
• psychedelics and meditation as complementary pathways toward awakening;
• an experiential approach to suffering and healing;
• and the need for self-compassion and love.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with cognitive and affective scientist Christy Wilson-Mendenhall. Christy has a long history studying emotions, and her work integrates psychological science and contemplative philosophy to explore well-being and resilience. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• integrating basic science and philosophy with on-the-ground research;
• viewing emotions as malleable, situated, and learned;
• working with emotions to enhance well-being;
• intersections of cognitive science and Buddhist philosophy;
• the critical role of community and relationships;
• understanding deep resilience;
• a free online course to help build resilience and emotional well-being;
• making worldview explicit;
• foregrounding interconnectedness when teaching;
• the power of emotional granularity;
• eco-anxiety, eco-grief, and solastalgia;
• the role of imagination and visioning;
• priming ourselves for a better future;
• taking seriously and learning from the perspective of marginalized folks;
• and making small personal changes to effect systems change.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with professor, writer, and thought leader Karen O’Brien. Karen is an expert on the human and social dimensions of climate change, and her work helps us understand the role of the mind and worldview in how we create and respond to environmental change, and global change more broadly. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• her path into environmental studies and understanding how humans respond to climate change;
• consequences of a reductionist worldview;
• understanding quantum social change;
• entanglement, and relationships as a fundamental aspect of our world;
• the importance of ethics and values in a system;
• our power as individuals to change systems;
• exploring causality and challenging the 'single cause';
• why the way we show up matters;
• how contemplative practice can help us embody transformative change;
• envisioning a new paradigm;
• Indigenous wisdom and interconnected views of nature;
• emotional difficulties in deeply accepting an interconnected reality;
• acknowledging and working with eco-grief and eco-anxiety;
• living with uncertainty;
• challenges in measuring transformative change;
• art as a lens to understanding;
• and the many possibilities for scaling change into societies.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with social neuroscientist and contemplative researcher Tania Singer. Tania is a world leader in studying empathy and compassion, and her pioneering work explores the interpersonal aspects of the brain and contemplative practice. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• her lifelong fascination with social interactions;
• foundational studies on empathy in the brain;
• distinguishing the physical vs. emotional aspects of pain;
• a chance meeting with Mind & Life and critical insights from a Buddhism-science collaboration;
• the difference between emotion contagion, empathy, and compassion;
• exploring the trainability of empathy and compassion;
• schadenfreude in the brain;
• empathy burnout and compassion as an antidote;
• the importance of correlating subjective reports with brain scans;
• a landmark longitudinal study of training different aspects of meditation;
• why what you practice really matters;
• contemplative dyads and the power of practicing with another person;
• the benefits of dyads for the negative effects of COVID lockdown;
• moving dyad work into schools and hospitals;
• shifting from studying individual change to systems change;
• and the role of contemplative science amidst current societal challenges.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with contemplative scientist Melissa Rosenkranz. Melissa's work examines the mind-body connection with a focus on how inflammation interacts with our brains and emotions, and how meditation might help. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• her interest in the mind-body connection;
• pros and cons of inflammation in the body;
• bidirectional links between inflammation in the body and our emotions;
• how inflammation can lead to hypersensitivity in the brain;
• inflammation and dementia;
• misperceptions around stress causing asthma;
• meditation's effect on inflammation and our immune response;
• meditation in asthma management (emotional and physical);
• studying whether mindfulness can protect against inflammatory damage to the brain;
• integrating meditation with medication;
• polarization in society and the power of building weak ties;
• increasing the safety signal to our bodies;
• seeing the fuller humanity of the people in our world;
• lovingkindness practice in action;
• links between inflammation in society and in our bodies;
• and a reminder that there's always a place to start when making change.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with action researcher, changemaker, and thought leader Otto Scharmer. Otto is a world leader in systems change, and his work across disciplines highlights how awareness and the quality of our relationships are critical for the change we need today. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• regenerative farming, social change movements, and the "social soil";
• inspiration from Francisco Varela;
• presencing and the role of awareness in systems change;
• three divides that contribute to our current crises;
• the untold story of regeneration and renewal;
• action learning and action research;
• trends towards goodwill and lack of agency;
• institutions vs. individuals;
• the blind spot of the mindfulness movement;
• speaking and listening across ideologies;
• non-doing, action vs. reaction;
• the need for holding spaces and building trust;
• leading by letting go and letting come;
• releasing old ways of thinking (ego) and shifting to more integrated mindsets (eco);
• sensing and engaging with future possibilities;
• fourth-person awareness;
• the influence of Mind & Life on his career trajectory;
• and resources for learning consciousness-based transformation.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with pathologist, scientist, author, and Zen Buddhist, Neil Theise. Neil's pioneering work in human anatomy has revolutionized our understanding of interconnectedness at the level of the body and beyond. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• his interest in medicine & Buddhism;
• pathology as contemplative practice;
• how a mystery from the wall of the bile duct led to a new understanding of our bodies;
• overview of the interstitium;
• how the interstitium may relate to fascia, energy systems, chakras, meridians, and other traditional systems of healing;
• connecting healing traditions through a cultural interstitium;
• a meditation to visualize the interstitium;
• studying living vs. dead tissue;
• cell doctrine and reductionism;
• complexity theory and interconnectedness at all scales;
• Buddhist ideas of emptiness, interdependence, impermanence;
• randomness in a complex system and adaptability;
• and the power of an interconnected view.

Full show notes and resources

In this episode, Wendy speaks with psychologist and cognitive scientist Molly Crockett. Molly is a leader in studying moral cognition, with an emphasis on ethics, knowledge, and power in the digital age. This conversation covers many topics, including:

• the limits of quantitative (scientific) ways of knowing;
• the importance of narrative in shaping ideas and behavior;
• moral outrage on social media;
• who benefits from a culture of outrage;
• the role of scientists in our narratives about human nature;
• how artificial intelligence influences what we consider as human;
• using artificial intelligence for compassion;
• a Dalai Lama chatbot vs. the real Dalai Lama;
• the importance of embodiment in human communication;
• studying transformative experiences at Burning Man;
• technology and "Paleolithic" emotions;
• epistemic injustice;
• and the critical importance of valuing multiple ways of knowing.

Full show notes and resources