Off The Lot: The Indie Filmmaking Podcast

Why is it so difficult to finance, produce, and distribute an independent film in Canada? And are film festivals actually helping indie filmmakers build sustainable careers?

In Episode 72 of Off The Lot, filmmakers Ken Kabatoff and Anthony Epp reunite for a candid conversation about the realities of independent filmmaking, from getting a movie financed to getting it in front of an audience.

Fresh off the sold-out Canadian premiere of his debut feature REMNANT at the Vancouver Horror Show Film Festival, Ken shares what he's learned about the festival circuit, the challenges of releasing a privately financed Canadian film, and why he ultimately had to look to American investors to get his movie made.

The conversation turns to the larger problems facing Canada's film industry, including government funding, private equity, distribution, and the difficulty of creating a commercially sustainable industry for Canadian filmmakers.

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Why do so many Canadian independent films struggle to break through internationally? And what does it actually take to get a feature film made in Canada?

This week on Off The Lot, we're joined by filmmakers Hayley Gray and Kaayla Whachell, the co-writers and co-directors of Send the Rain, which recently had its world premiere at the Vancouver International Film Festival (VIFF).

What started as an award-winning short film became a feature about family, responsibility, and the pull of home, set against the threat of a wildfire in British Columbia.

We get into the realities of taking a short film to feature length, navigating financing and shrinking budgets, and what happens when two directors share creative control over the same movie.

But the conversation also goes much further.

We tackle some bigger questions about Canadian filmmaking: Why do our films struggle to reach international audiences? Are we developing the wrong production habits? And how do we build a sustainable independent film industry when filmmakers are constantly being asked to sacrifice their own time and money?

In this episode, we discuss:

• Turning an award-winning short into a feature film
• The challenges and advantages of co-directing
• Securing financing through the Canadian film system
• Making creative decisions when the budget gets smaller
• Directing non-professional actors and finding authentic performances
• Why Canadian films struggle to find international audiences
• The relationship between Canada's service production industry and independent filmmaking
• Building a positive, collaborative film set
• What first-time feature directors should know before getting started

Whether you're developing your first feature, navigating film financing, or trying to build a sustainable career as an independent filmmaker, this conversation offers a candid look at what it takes to get a movie made.

Subscribe for new conversations with filmmakers working to get their movies made.

You made your first feature film. Now what?

According to research by film industry analyst Stephen Follows, only about 1 in 4 first-time feature directors makes a second film within five years.

So why do so many filmmakers struggle to get their second movie made?

In Episode 70 of Off The Lot, Anthony Epp breaks down the numbers behind filmmaking careers and explores why getting your film SEEN might be more important than getting it made.

Because the reality is that a great film nobody watches may do less for your career than a good film that finds an audience.

In this episode, we cover:

• Why so few first-time directors make a second feature
• The relationship between audience visibility and career longevity
• Why film festivals and distribution deals aren't enough
• How to build your first 1,000 engaged viewers
• Why marketing should begin before production
• Lessons from indie successes like Hundreds of Beavers and RocketJump
• Practical, low-budget strategies for getting your film in front of audiences

We also look at what Canadian independent filmmakers can do differently to build audiences and create sustainable careers outside the studio system.

THE BIG QUESTION: If you've made a feature film, how many ratings or reviews does it have? And what's actually worked to get people watching?

Tell us in the comments. We'd love to hear your experience.

Off The Lot is the podcast for filmmakers building careers outside the studio system.

Hosted by Ken Kabatoff and Anthony Epp.

For questions, stories, or inquiries: podcast.offthelot@gmail.com

What do you do when the traditional path to making your movie keeps saying no?

This week on Off The Lot, Anthony sits down with actor, writer and producer Jovanna Burke to talk about what she’s learned after more than 20 years working in film and television — and why rejection may actually be one of the most important parts of building a sustainable filmmaking career.

Jovanna opens up about transitioning from actor to producer, learning the business and financing side of filmmaking, building trust with investors, and the idea of pursuing “1,000 rejections” instead of being afraid of hearing no.

They also dig into the realities of making films in Canada: the limitations of relying entirely on public funding, why international co-productions could create new opportunities for Canadian filmmakers, and how we can build more Canadian-owned companies, IP and talent instead of relying exclusively on the service-production industry.

Jovanna also discusses her psychological supernatural horror feature Nuesta, currently being developed through the Whistler Film Festival Producers Lab, and her plans to build a production company connecting Canada with Latin America.

In this episode:

• Why filmmakers quit too early after rejection

• The “1,000 rejections” approach

• Going from actor to producer

• Building trust with film investors

• Why every producer needs to understand financing

• The limitations of Canada’s traditional funding model

• How international co-productions actually work

• Building Canadian-owned film and television IP

• Why starting embarrassingly small can be an advantage

• The importance of running toward the things that scare you

Off The Lot is the podcast for filmmakers building careers outside the studio system.

Why do some indie films actually get made while others spend years stuck in development?

In this episode of Off The Lot, Anthony breaks down the stages an independent film goes through between having a screenplay and actually getting the movie greenlit.

We cover what you should be working on at each stage — and, just as importantly, what you probably shouldn't be doing yet.

You'll learn:

• Who you need around you before you start raising money

• When to spend your own development money

• How much financing you should have before approaching cast

• When a casting director actually becomes useful

• When to start talking to distributors and sales agents

• Why attachments can create leverage — or hurt you if you approach them too early

• The difference between momentum and actual progress

• Why you shouldn't build your finance plan around grants

• When a movie can realistically be considered greenlit

• What to do when your project has been stuck for months — or years

Film development isn't one giant leap from screenplay to production. It's a series of smaller steps, with each one creating enough leverage to unlock the next.

The key is knowing what stage your movie is actually in — and what needs to happen next.

If you're developing, financing or packaging an independent feature, this episode gives you a practical roadmap for getting it closer to production.

Making the movie is only half the battle.

Once your film is finished, you still have to figure out how to get people to actually see it. And if you're still trying to finance your movie, there may be another source of money most indie filmmakers completely overlook: brands.

In this episode of Off The Lot, we look at indie film marketing from both ends of the process.

Ken is finishing Remnant and now facing the next challenge: building enough awareness to actually get audiences into theatres. Anthony is developing Quiet Canadians and exploring how brand partnerships, sponsorships, product integration and social content can help finance a movie before production even begins.

We break down:

• Why indie filmmakers need dozens of pieces of marketing content — not one trailer

• Why audiences may need multiple touchpoints before your movie even registers

• How brands can contribute cash, wardrobe, props, vehicles, locations and production resources

• Why product placement is only one small part of a brand partnership

• How behind-the-scenes content can become valuable advertising for sponsors

• How to identify brands that already want access to your film’s audience

• Why smaller and emerging brands may be better partners than major corporations

• How sponsorship revenue can help de-risk your movie for investors

• Why filmmakers should start thinking about marketing before they ever start shooting

The bigger lesson: don't approach a brand asking them to help you make your movie.

Figure out what audience they're trying to reach — and show them how your movie can help them reach it.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

https://www.remnantmovie.com/

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How do you actually get started as a filmmaker when nobody is giving you money, grants, connections, or permission?

In Episode 66 of Off The Lot, Anthony answers questions from emerging filmmakers about what it really takes to start directing, finance your first projects, break into the industry, and eventually build a sustainable career.

We cover why grants should be treated as a bonus — not a plan, how to make films with the resources you already have, whether filmmakers still need traditional distributors, what micro-budget movies can realistically earn, and why your first feature may be more valuable as a career-building tool than as an immediate financial success.

Anthony also breaks down:

• How to start directing without waiting for someone to hire you

• The biggest mistakes that kill low-budget films

• Why your script, budget and schedule have to match

• Whether applying to Telefilm and other funding programs is worth it

• How filmmakers can build an audience through YouTube

• How to actually get your first job on a film set

• When film markets like TIFF are worth attending

• What filmmakers should realistically expect to earn from a micro-budget feature

• Why making the movie is sometimes only the beginning

The central idea is simple:

Start where you are. Use what you have. Make something. Then make the next thing bigger.

Off The Lot is the podcast for filmmakers building careers outside the studio system.

Subscribe for conversations about independent filmmaking, financing, producing, directing, distribution, and what it actually takes to get movies made.

What does it actually cost to make a $2 million independent feature?

Ken and Anthony break down a hypothetical $2M movie using the Telefilm Canada budget structure and real lessons learned producing Remnant. They go line by line through above-the-line costs, cast, crew, equipment, locations, transportation, post-production, music, financing, tax credits and contingency.

They also get into the costs filmmakers often overlook: actor buyouts, crew fringes, overtime, hard drives, trailers, permits, music licensing, legal fees, interim financing and the deals and relationships required to make a professional film at this budget level.

If you're trying to figure out how much your indie film should actually cost — and where that money should go — this episode is a practical starting point.

Writer-director Nat Boltt joins Off The Lot to break down the decade-long journey behind her feature directorial debut, Holy Days.

The film stars Judy Davis, Jacki Weaver and Miriam Margolyes, topped the box office in New Zealand, and went on to a global theatrical release — but getting there meant surviving years of development, financing setbacks, international co-production challenges, lost investors and an ambitious 26-day shoot.

Nat takes us inside how she landed her cast, navigated funding through Canada and New Zealand, shot complex road sequences using LED stages, and pulled off a major snowstorm sequence with limited resources.

But some of the biggest lessons came after the movie was finished.

We talk about the realities of independent film distribution, why filmmakers are increasingly being forced to build and market their own audiences, what she believes is broken about the current system, and why she plans to approach the release of her next film very differently.

A candid conversation about getting a first feature made, getting it seen, and what indie filmmakers need to understand if they want to build sustainable careers outside the studio system.

I finally made my first feature film.

After years of working in film and television, raising the money, assembling the team, shooting Remnant, going through post-production and now entering distribution, there are things I understand about filmmaking that I simply didn’t before.

In this episode of Off The Lot, Anthony walks me through the entire filmmaking process as I break down five of the biggest lessons I learned making my first feature — from getting the movie financed and casting the right actors, to protecting the magic on set, testing the film with audiences, and thinking about distribution long before the movie is finished.

We get into what actually happens when the plan falls apart on set, why casting can make or break your movie, why filmmakers need to test their cuts, how to know what success means for your film, and why nobody is ever going to care about your movie as much as you do.

If you’re trying to make your first feature film, this is the episode I wish I could have listened to before making mine.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

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Harrison Houde and Dakota Daulby spent years trying to get a feature film made. Then a producer called and essentially said: write the movie — we’re shooting it this year.

The result was Tight Lettuce, a bilingual English/French dark comedy inspired by a true story about a son trying to maintain a relationship with his heroin-addicted father. The film went on to premiere at the Fantasia International Film Festival and win the Golden Audience Award for Best Quebec Film.

In this episode of Off The Lot, Harrison and Dakota break down what it actually took to turn the project into their first feature — from originally developing it as a $100,000 short to suddenly having the opportunity to make the full movie.

We get into:

• How a Facebook message eventually became a feature film
• Writing a first draft in roughly a month
• Financing the film outside the traditional Telefilm model
• Making a sub-$2.5M indie feature in 20 shooting days
• Why their 20-day shoot effectively became 16–17 days
• Casting Quebec star Emmanuel Bilodeau
• Combining comedy and addiction without trivializing either
• What they learned from 12–13 cuts of the movie
• Why Harrison says he’d never start another movie with car scenes
• The mistakes they made on their first feature
• Why they now want recognizable cast attached earlier
• What filmmakers misunderstand about theatrical distribution
• The reality of trying to get an indie film onto movie screens

They also talk candidly about the biggest writing problem they discovered in the edit, what they would put in their contracts next time, and the lessons they’re already applying to their next films.

Subscribe to Off The Lot for conversations about what it actually takes to finance, make, finish, and release independent films outside the studio system.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

https://www.remnantmovie.com/

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The Greenlight Report

Follow Ken & Anthony on Instagram here:

@ken_kabatoff

@epptri

A great 1st AD doesn’t just keep a film on schedule — they can completely change what a director is capable of accomplishing on set.In this episode Ken and Anthony break down one of the most important relationships in filmmaking: the director and the 1st assistant director.

Ken shares what he learned directing his first feature, REMNANT, including working with veteran 1st AD Pete White, restructuring impossible shooting days, running two units simultaneously, knowing which shots could be pushed, and why the best ADs are much more than glorified schedulers.

Anthony brings the perspective of an experienced 1st AD: how to earn a director’s trust, plan an ambitious shot list around the reality of an indie schedule, manage dozens of departments without creating panic, protect safety without compromising the film, and keep an entire set moving with purpose.

We also break down chain of title — the paperwork every independent filmmaker needs to protect their movie before money, partners, investors, distributors, and competing interests enter the picture.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

https://www.remnantmovie.com/

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Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey is unlike anything ever put on a movie screen. Shot entirely on IMAX film across oceans, mountains, deserts and ancient landscapes, it is an astonishing feat of physical filmmaking—and arguably the ultimate theatrical experience.But is technical achievement enough to make a great movie?

In this full-spoiler review, we break down Nolan’s adaptation of Homer’s epic, from the Trojan Horse and the Cyclops to Calypso, Ithaca and the slaughter of the suitors. We examine the film’s most significant changes to the original text, including the removal of most of the Greek gods, Odysseus’s altered motivation, the elimination of his defining act of hubris and Nolan’s decision to transform a story about homecoming into one about guilt, trauma and regret.

We also go inside the extraordinary production: enormous IMAX cameras, two-and-a-half-minute film magazines, custom soundproof camera housings, mirrored eyeline systems, real ships and practical environments. Nolan and his collaborators effectively had to invent new filmmaking techniques just to get the movie made.

The result is visually overwhelming and technically historic. But does The Odyssey give us a hero worth rooting for? Did Nolan’s changes weaken Odysseus’s journey? And why does the climactic return to Ithaca feel less emotionally satisfying than it should?

Spoiler warning: This episode discusses the entire film and major events from Homer’s original story.Subscribe to Off the Lot for candid conversations about filmmaking, film financing, production and what it takes to build a career outside the studio system.

Movie theaters aren’t dying. In fact, more people are buying tickets—and the films succeeding are challenging several assumptions Hollywood has made over the last decade.

In this episode of Off The Lot, we examine why theatrical admissions are rising, how longer release windows and a stronger supply of original movies are rebuilding the moviegoing habit, and why audiences no longer simply “go to the movies”—they choose one specific film worth leaving home to see.

We also break down one of the most difficult decisions facing independent producers: does casting a recognizable actor actually help sell an indie film? Ken shares what changed after Kim Coates joined Remnant, including the credibility a known actor can bring—and the hidden production costs that come with hiring one.

Then we discuss Vancouver producer Chris Ferguson and Oddfellows’ new first-look deal with Warner Bros., what their success proves about building a repeatable genre-film company, and why their rise creates opportunities for the next generation of Canadian producers.

In this episode:

•⁠ ⁠Why theatrical admissions matter more than box-office headlines

•⁠ ⁠How longer theatrical windows create urgency and audience demand

•⁠ ⁠Why original horror films are bringing younger viewers back

•⁠ ⁠Recognizable actors versus genuinely bankable actors

•⁠ ⁠The true cost of adding a name actor to an indie production

•⁠ ⁠How Oddfellows built toward its Warner Bros. partnership

•⁠ ⁠Why production companies need a repeatable pipeline

•⁠ ⁠The real value of genre festivals such as Fantasia

Mayumi Yoshida spent nine years turning a deeply personal idea into her first feature film, Akashi—writing, directing, producing, and starring in a story that crosses generations, countries, and languages.

In this episode, Mayumi reveals how a conversation with her grandmother evolved from a stage play into an award-winning short and, eventually, a critically acclaimed feature. She also breaks down the fight to finance an 80% Japanese-language Canadian film—and how she and a coalition of filmmakers helped push Telefilm Canada to remove a policy that prevented many multilingual stories from qualifying for funding.

We also discuss:

* Directing herself while leading an international cast

* Shooting in Vancouver and Japan on an extremely compressed schedule

* How losing six production days shaped the film’s visual language

* Rehearsing film scenes like theatre to survive two- and three-take days

* Cutting a completed two-hour version down to 100 minutes

* Using black and white, colour, production design, and sound to explore memory

* Why filmmakers should choose stories they can remain committed to for a lifetime

* The importance of knowing when you are—and are not—the right person to tell a story

Akashi premiered at the Vancouver International Film Festival, where it won the Audience Choice Award, and went on to receive major recognition at the Whistler Film Festival, Reel Asian, and the Leo Awards.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

https://www.remnantmovie.com/

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Most filmmakers build pitch decks around the movie they want to make. But an investor is looking at your project through a completely different lens:

How do I get my money back—and what protects my downside?

In Episode 57 of Off The Lot, Ken Kabatoff and Anthony Furey break down what an effective indie film investor deck actually needs to accomplish.

We discuss:

• The difference between a creative pitch deck and an investor deck

• What private film investors actually need to understand

• How to explain your budget, finance plan, tax credits, and recoupment waterfall

• Why cinematography and concept art should not dominate the presentation

• How cast, comparable films, timing, and market positioning help reduce perceived risk

• Whether filmmakers need their own marketing plan

• Why your deck should inspire a conversation—not replace one

• The legal risks of publicly soliciting film investment

• How to make financial information clear without making the deck feel dry

A good investor deck does more than make your film look exciting. It demonstrates that you understand how the project will be financed, completed, sold, and positioned to return capital.

If you are trying to privately finance an independent feature, this episode provides a practical framework for building the document that may open the door.

Subscribe for candid conversations about financing, producing, directing, selling, and building independent films outside the studio system.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

https://www.remnantmovie.com/

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The Film Founder

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The Greenlight Report

Follow Ken & Anthony on Instagram here:

@ken_kabatoff

@epptri

Corey Payette did not wait for a studio to give him permission.

He built his stories on stage, proved them in front of live audiences, and then turned them into award-nominated films — including Star Walker, which earned 10 Leo Award nominations.

In this episode of Off The Lot, Corey breaks down how he went from theatre, music, and original Indigenous storytelling into feature filmmaking, how Star Walker evolved from a stage musical and TV series development process into a feature film, and what it actually takes to make a drag musical outside the traditional studio system.

We talk about:

How Corey adapted Star Walker from stage to screen

Why the film was made without traditional Telefilm or studio financing

The challenge of shooting a feature musical in drag on a tight schedule

How community, chosen family, and queer joy shaped the film

Why one story can become a stage show, feature film, album, tour, and published script

What Corey learned moving from theatre into filmmaking

This is a conversation about building durable creative work, making films outside the system, and finding a way forward when the industry says no.

Subscribe to Off The Lot for conversations with filmmakers building careers on their own terms.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

https://www.remnantmovie.com/

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The Greenlight Report

Follow Ken & Anthony on Instagram here:

@ken_kabatoff

@epptri

Anthony Epp sits down with Ken Kabatoff for a candid conversation about the recent changes to Telefilm Canada's development funding, the challenges facing emerging Canadian filmmakers, and the growing need to balance creative ambition with financial sustainability.

They reflect on networking, content creation, building an audience, and why long-term careers are built through persistence rather than overnight success.

Listen now for an honest discussion about filmmaking, funding, creative resilience, and what it really takes to keep making movies.

Vulture: The Unglamorous Financial Realities of 5 Indie Filmmakers

https://web.archive.org/web/20260623153204/https://www.vulture.com/article/indie-filmmakers-money.html

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

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Anthony Epp and Ken Kabatoff discuss two of the biggest stories in independent filmmaking right now: the debate over crew compensation on breakout indie hits and the growing influence of YouTube creators in the film industry.

Using the success of Obsession as a starting point, they explore backend points, producer risk, union protections, and what filmmakers and crew members can realistically expect from low-budget productions. They also examine how creators like Curry Barker, Kane Parsons, Markiplier, and Chris Stuckmann are using online platforms to develop their craft and build careers outside the traditional studio system.

Along the way, Anthony and Ken discuss film financing, distribution, audience building, and why the recent success of independent horror films may be opening new doors for emerging filmmakers.

Listen now for a conversation about independent film, creative opportunity, and the changing path to a career in filmmaking.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

https://www.remnantmovie.com/

Follow Ken Kabatoff's newsletter The Film Founder here:

https://kenkabatoff.substack.com/about

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Anthony Epp sits down with Julie Bruns and Steven Kammerer, filmmakers and actors behind Beneath Crimson Sails for a wide-ranging conversation about fantasy storytelling, independent filmmaking, and the passion projects that keep artists creating. Drawing inspiration from worlds like The Lord of the Rings, The Witcher, and classic adventure cinema, the guests discuss building immersive universes, crafting memorable characters, and bringing ambitious genre stories to life on independent budgets.

The episode explores the challenges of writing and developing long-form creative projects, the importance of world-building, and how filmmakers balance inspiration from beloved franchises while creating something uniquely their own. Along the way, the conversation branches into gaming, practical storytelling lessons, favorite films, dream acting roles, and the enduring appeal of fantasy adventures.

Anthony and his guests also share advice for aspiring filmmakers, emphasizing the importance of reading widely, experiencing the world firsthand, and choosing projects you genuinely love—because filmmaking is a long journey that demands persistence, curiosity, and commitment.

Listen now for an entertaining discussion about fantasy, filmmaking, creativity, and what it takes to build stories that audiences can truly get lost in.

Follow Ken's Indie Horror Feature Remnant here:

https://www.remnantmovie.com/

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https://kenkabatoff.substack.com/about

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