On the Soul's Terms

Anadyomene is an ancient epithet connected to Aphrodite. It means ‘she who is rising up from the sea’ and refers to the moment in mythology, recorded for us by the shepherd, Hesiod, when the goddess of beauty is born from the ocean in the midst of unimaginable (yet thoroughly imagined) trauma.

It felt an apt title for this episode. Somewhere in the dreaming ocean of this conversation with Toko-pa Turner Beauty emerges amongst stories of loss, pain, loneliness, isolation and disconnection.

To quote Toko-pa, ‘Beauty is a metabolised grief.’

Toko-pa Turner is an award-winning author of The Dreaming Way and Belonging: Remembering Ourselves Home. She is also a teacher and dreamworker whose work explores the relationship between psyche and nature. Blending animism with a Jungian approach to dreamwork, she reveals the kinship between the imaginal and material worlds.

In this episode, Toko-pa shares with us her love of wisdom (philo-sophia). We discuss dreams as a form of interior intelligence that we can build a relationship with rather than explain away or flatten out. Through the dream doors that open up we find ourselves lamenting the loss of the ‘edge’ of the village, or rather, that the edge has become a terrifying place in the current world. So where is the mystic to live?

The conversation then moves into the themes of Toko-pa’s first book, Belonging, and how exile and belonging are two sides of the same sphere. And from this place, as mentioned above, beauty seems to spontaneously emerge, which takes us into the idea of the ‘dream tent’ and ways of dreaming collectively.

If you enjoy this conversation you might like to connect with Toko-pa’s work. To do so go to her website or get a hold of her wonderful books (links below).

Podcast Artwork: Moonrise on an Empty Shore , Caspar David Friedrich (1837/1839)

References

Toko-pa Turner — Belonging: Remembering Ourselves Home and The Dreaming Way: Courting the Wisdom of Dreams. Toko-pa's website

Nikki Giovanni — poet; the source of the phrase about bearing pleasure that Toko-pa discusses. Poetry Foundation

James Hillman — depth psychologist, referenced in relation to self-betrayal. James Hillman Institute. His concept of the Acorn Theory is expanded upon in The Soul's Code.

Carl Jung — referenced in relation to dreamwork and depth psychology. Jung Institute

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
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Venus is the sphere in which we ponder Love, Beauty, Harmony, Pleasure, Value (and our Values) and Worth (and that niggling question, 'Am I Worthy?).

In our chart she represents how you attract others, express affection, handle finances and appreciate the finer things in life.

In the current sky, Venus in Scorpio is retrograde and about to disappear from the evening sky. She's on her way to meet the Sun at 0° Scorpio before returning to her home in Libra and rising again as the morning star.

This episode is a companion to that journey; a deep dive into her realm.

Sappho, her most cherished devotee, will start us off on the right foot. Then we follow her mythic threads with the help of Aphrodite and Eros from their most primordial essence through to how they are imagined in the harsh HD lights of the modern day.

Part Two of the Podcast follows the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite in its entirety. Aphrodite, disguised as a maiden, approaches the unsuspecting Trojan, Anchises. The poem is a rare glimpse of Aphrodite's world from the inside. Including her powerful effect on all creatures in existence to bring them the gifts of love along with its accompanying strife.

The episode cover art is Venus de Milo – the Louvre

REFERENCES

Sappho — Fragments
Especially Fragment 5.
The Poems of Sappho — Wikisource

Hesiod — Theogony
For the primordial Eros and the genealogy of Aphrodite.
Hesiod, Theogony — Perseus Digital Library

Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite (Hymn 5)
The central mythological source for the second half of this episode.
Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite — Harvard Center for Hellenic Studies

Homer — Iliad, Book 5
For Aphrodite's wounding and her relationship with Aeneas.
Homer, Iliad — Perseus Digital Library

Virgil — Aeneid, Book 1
For Aeneas, Venus, and the aftermath of Troy.
Virgil, Aeneid — Perseus Digital Library

Empedocles — Love and Strife
For the conception of Love as a fundamental cosmic force.
Empedocles — Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

David Abram — The Spell of the Sensuous
For the discussion of sensual perception and our embodied relationship with the world.
David Abram — The Spell of the Sensuous

Chris and Melanie talk Venus & Inanna
On Spotify

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Venus in the sky is currently at her highest glory (elongation (distance from the sun)). That's the moment that, like Inanna, she hears the call from the Great Above to the Great Below and decides to descend. She moves through the seven gates, each gate demanding that she remove one of her signals of power in the upper realms.

Melanie Reinhart joins me to talk about her own observations of this myth. It has particularly come alive for her since she started tracking the resonance of her inner world with the movements of Venus through its five-pointed star pattern since 1983.

We discuss Melanie's connection to folklorist, Diane Wolkstein. Diane was a storyteller who held court in Central Park, NY, in an official capacity as resident storyteller for many years. Following her curiosity about ancient tales, Diane tracked down Samuel Noah Kramer, a leading Sumerologist in his field whose job it was to translate cuneiform texts.

Together they wrote the book Inanna: Queen of Heaven and Earth (see link below). Kramer translated Cuneiform into English, Wolkstein translated English into Story. From their tireless and persistent work togehter the ancient myth made its way into the modern world.

It's more than just a story of descent. It's a story of ecstacy, longing, commitment, obligation, love, loss, rage and redemption... amongst other things.

In this Special Edition episode, aligned with the Times, Melanie shares with us a generous offering of her life experience, client observations and participation in the coming to life of this epic tale into the modern era.

Timeless wisdom for a world in thirst of soul.

Podcast Image: Ancient Akkadian cylinder seal depicting the goddess Inanna resting her foot on the back of a lion while Ninshubur stands in front of her paying obeisance, c. 2350–2150 BCE

Resources

• Sylvia Brinton Perera — Descent to the Goddess (1981)
• Diane Wolkstein & Samuel Noah Kramer — Inanna: Queen of Heaven and Earth (1983)
• Diane Wolkstein — The First Love Stories: From Isis and Osiris to Tristan and Iseult
• Samuel Noah Kramer — Sumerologist / translations of the Inanna cuneiform texts
• Ariel Guttman — Venus Star Point / Venus cycle
• Dane Rudhyar — birth as the moment of separation / cutting of the cord
• Alice Bailey — Venus as esoteric ruler of Gemini
• Irving Finkel — British Museum / Sumerian material and the Queen's Lyre
• Rumi — poem concerning love and removing the obstacles to love
• Adonis / Aphrodite — later mythic development of the dying-and-returning lover and lamentation tradition
• Rogerian therapy / Carl Rogers — mirroring/reflective listening, in relation to the Kurgarra
• Queen's Lyre of Ur — Sumerian lyre, British Museum / Baghdad Museum restoration story

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Mercury is the smallest planet in our solar system, closest to the sun, taking a magical 88 days for a year. It travels fast but spins slowly – a day being 1.5 times as long as a year – with a quirky, egg-shaped orbit.

Small with a big character. That kind of sums up mythical Hermes (Mercury) who, on the first day of his life, invents music, fire and ritual, steals Apollo's cattle and snuggles back into his blanket like nothing happened.

To get in touch with this endlessly paradoxical being we begin with his Orphic Hymn: an invocation of the god. Only, of course, there isn't one hymn but two. Already he has found a way to 'twin' himself. The first hymn gives us a sense of his role as messenger – his 'day job' – the second as psychopomp: guide of souls who assists us through the many deaths of our lives.

That's the thing about Hermes/Mercury. We meet him at the threshold. Even astrologically he is the third in a set of three. He revises where we've been and sets us up for where we're going next.

Of course, being an episode about words themselves, there had to be some poetry involved. Dylan Thomas takes us in with On the Words in Poetry – essentially a love song dedicated to the magic of words themselves. And then, to close us out, a poem called, if this isn't too on the nose, Magic Words.

References

• Homeric Hymn to Hermes — Theoi Classical Texts Library
• Orphic Hymns — Apostolos N. Athanassakis & Benjamin M. Wolkow, The Orphic Hymns — Johns Hopkins University Press
• The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart — Robert Bly, James Hillman & Michael Meade — Open Library
• Dylan Thomas — “On the Words in Poetry” — from The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart
• “Magic Words” — from The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart
• Tim Minchin — “Prejudice” — YouTube
• Tim Minchin — “If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out” — Tim Minchin
• Sigmund Freud / “Freudian slip” — APA Dictionary of Psychology
• Arnold Mindell — “Discovering the World in the Individual: The World Channel in Psychotherapy” — Process Work
• Hermes — Theoi Greek Mythology — Hermes
• Hermes, the herma, fire, lyre and psychopomp — Theoi: Hermes

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Today I’m joined by mentor, guide and friend of the podcast, Brian Clark.

It’s time to enter the world of Hermes, guide of souls, the one we meet on the road who can lead us away from home and lead us back when the time is right.

We begin our discussion by talking about mythological Hermes, tracing his origins back to Mycenaean culture where he was known as the ‘herma’ – a pile of rocks that we still have in our language today as the ‘milestone’.

Brian and I discuss moments in our lives, of which there are far more than we could possibly mention, of when we had a plan and Hermes had an alternative. Once off the track of what we thought might happen we are in the hands of Hermes or Mercury and on the pathless path where the mystery, unmistakably, is unfolding at our feet.

From here we go into the more technical realm of Mercury the planet. The numbers that are associated with his relationship to the sun, including Pi – that endless rambling number that seems random but follows an invisible order. And we suggest some ways to work with Mercury and its cycles in order to follow its intrinsic patterns, tend to the mind and thread together ideas so that they might become fruitful projects over time.

I decided to leave the conversation unedited. The moments of wrestling with an idea, or getting things wrong, or taking the apparently wrong path, seem an important part of the contemplation of Hermes Mercurius. Without that tension, that wrestling match, that confusion, those strange crossroads, we’re unlikely to receive that little bag of gold that Hermes holds in his hand, the one that isn’t holding the Caduceus.

Resources Mentioned

Books & Texts

• Lewis Hyde — Trickster Makes This World
• Homer — The Iliad
• Homer — The Odyssey
• Homeric Hymn to Hermes

Authors & Thinkers

• David Abram
• Dane Rudhyar

Mythological References

• Hermes / Mercury
• Perseus and Medusa
• Kairos
• Prometheus and Epimetheus
• Metis
• Mnemosyne
• Snow White / Sleeping Beauty

Astrology & Astronomy

• Mercury's Promethean and Epimethean phases
• Mercury's retrograde cycles
• Mercury's inferior and superior conjunctions
• Mercury's greatest elongation
• The ~116-day Mercury cycle
• The relationship between Mercury's cycles, 22/7, and π

Astrosynthesis

• Brian Clark & Glennys Lawton — Astrosynthesis

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Spyros Siamos is an energy healer, esoteric author, and former mathematics teacher based in Messinia, Greece. He lives on a coastal olive grove situated near an ancient Temple of Apollo, where he conducts one-on-one healing sessions and hosts sound therapy, meditation, and spiritual workshops.

A father of two and author of threebookson esotericism, Spyros has explored various healing modalities and trained in Peruvian Shamanism for over ten years. He recently established Esothen Messinia—a dedicated space created to host accessible, low-budget creative and spiritual holidays, as well as affordable retreats in Greece.

English is not Spyros' first language. Many of the concepts we touch on in this episode are ones that he wishes he could wax poetic on in his mother tongue. Never the less, this apparent limitation gives us, the listener, the opportunity to, like Apollo, allow ourselves to be engaged in the struggle of birthing the light.

We begin with Spyros' childhood. His father taught primary and encouraged his interest in the ancient myths of his culture that were taught in early education. Spyros experienced myth as a way of tapping into the threads of history.

Once in high school, myth was no longer taught. He replaced mythology with philosophy as that's what was considered to be the sensible thing to learn. To put away childish things.

Then, through his exploration of the interior landscapes with a Peruvian Shaman, in the depth of his own consciousness, the mythic figures he'd learned about in early education returned as guides. First Athena, Aphrodite, Dionysus and others. And after a few years, Apollo.

It was this first hand experience with the gods that I wanted to connect to On the Soul's Terms. Apollo (or the astrological Sun) not just as a concept that we can form opinions on and argue on the costs and benefits of such a god, but as an emergent, embodied, felt sense experience that is personified in Ancient Greek culture as the deity of light, harmony, balance and a clarifying light at the centre of it all.

Later in the episode we touch on how and where Apollo has shown up in Spyros' healing work. Including the first time, when he was in the position of healer for a young man who had gone into a coma following a motorcycle accident. Here the god helped him to stay in a state of observation whilst the pain, suffering and emotion swirled all around him.

We talk about the cultivation of the mind necessary to be in right relationship with such potent energy fields. And the risk, that Spyros himself has suffered personally, of having one's system blown open when that light is unmediated.

Which draws us to the field of the Muses or the Angels or the Daimones. Whatever one might call that layers of consciousness that is neither this nor that, both... and. And how they can help us to create from a steady hearth rather than from bright sparks that leave us singed in the end.

Spyros will be hosting a retreat for men in Greece in October. I'll be personally attending. For more information on that click here.

The episode artwork is from the West Pediment in the museum in Olympia. We discuss the scene in the episode – The Centaurs vs the Lapiths. Apollo stands in the centre of a chaotic battle between consciousness and instinct. Victory, in this sense, is not a case of overpowering the instinct, but of locating the light whilst being open to it all.

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Firstly I suppose I should say... *Spoiler Alert*

Although let's face it, the story is over 3,000 years old. By now you should probably have heard of it.

Secondly, there is a Post Script here to listen out for. An 'after the credits' scene if you will. Definitely stay tuned for that part. It ties the episode together.

The episode itself has been brewing for the last month, since the release of Nolan's The Odyssey in cinemas worldwide.

Of course, everyone with even a pinky toe in the world of Greek Mythology has commented on it by now. And in that sense, I'm certainly late to the party.

Still, it didn't feel right to miss the opportunity altogether. So here is my contribution.

After watching the movie I went back to read the Iliad followed by the Odyssey. About 30 hours of reading. I wanted to become steeped in that mythic landscape. To imagine myself in an ancient hall, lit by torches and the hearth, being transported into another world by the rhythmic tones of the bard.

It was that trance state I wanted to enter, as best as one can when actually just reading lines on a page translated into English that don't actually retain that rhythm and flow. And juxtapose that trance with the modern version of staring at a screen.

Both of these forms take you to another world. The bard exercises your ability to generate images inside of your mind. The movie screen generates the images for you.

All this to say, I wanted to speak from my personal experience of Odysseus, as our most polymorphic of literary characters, and how it connects to the great quest of our lives: becoming who we actually are.

I consider that to be what the sun is symbolic of in astrology. Not as seperate from the moon, but as an extension of it. To be oneself and fully related. That would be the 'soli-lunar' task of becoming.

So this episode, which is a BONUS episode within the planets series, is a chance to enter Odysseus' world. His naming ritual that coincides with his wounding. His movement out of the cave and into the light past the threshold guardian. The owning of his name, his lineage, his place and his fame. And his return home to reclaim his throne. A throne that is threatened by many false selves that we know as 'the suitors'.

I'd love to hear what stirs for you in the story. Particularly the places that your mind and soul keep returning to. That (t)horn in the side that draws you back to it again and again. As wounds that have bestowed upon us the endless gifts of our mortal lives.

YouTube and Patreon seem to be the best place to leave comments these days. See you there.

Cover Art is Ulysses deriding Polyphemus - Homer's Odyssey. Joseph Mallord William Turner. 1829. Oil on canvas.

The translations I returned to (The Iliad and The Odyssey) were both by Emily Wilson.

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Doing an episode on the sun, our central fiery point that takes up 99.86% of the mass of our solar system and gives the system itself a name, turned out to be quite the task.

Enormous, if you will.

I've always found that the Sun in astrology felt a little... flat. Two dimensional. It was though we were looking at the image with that singular eye that the sun conjures to our minds. The image of the all-seeing-eye of the Cyclopes that, in reality, has no depth perception.

So, this episode is an effort to add a second eye (I?) to the sun. To see it as a series of 'both... and' propositions. The still centre of it all AND the cacophony of sound and light that springs forth from it. The first breath of creative fire AND every subsequent humble endeavour. And as Apollo, the archer seeing from afar AND the one enamoured with life on earth, particularly the floral world whom he chases but can never obtain.

It's an episode effectively in two parts.

Part One is to get a sense of the sun in Astrology. We sit in the temple (con-templ-ate), we stare at the glyph, we check in with the consensus of the astrological world. Then we feel the sun on our skin, allowing it to penetrate and worm our cells. We even get a sense of the scientific mythos, this ball of self-generating life, so hot at the core, cooler (relatively) at the surface, but then mysteriously blazing again as the 'corona': the sun's own royal crown.

Part Two we get mythic and follow Apollo's many stories, allowing him to morph into the many shapes that our Zodiac itself allows. One moment plucking a lyre and giving us lyricism, the next pulling back the bow and reigning down arrows on his enemies.

The journey takes many twists and turns, but returns us to a central image. Veiling and revelation. Being seen and unseen. Just like his birth place, Delos ("Visible"), at the centre of the Cyklades ("circle"): a humble floating rock from which all golden things are born.

The image is Apollo of the Belvedere at the Vatican Museum.

I am indebted to Carl Kerenyi and his book The Gods of the Greeks.

Also to Apollodrus' Library.

And to the extensive work of Brian Clark on https://www.astrosynthesis.com.au/.

(It's a fun co-incidence that this episode is released on 'Lion's Gate' 8.8.2026)

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The Moon pulls the tides of the ocean, but the question that won’t let us go is simpler and stranger: what is it pulling in us? Melanie Reinhart joins me for a wide, grounded, moonlit ramble through lunar consciousness, astrology, and the body. We start with the moon as a constant companion for earthlings, a reliable rhythm of waxing and waning that can steady us when life feels politically, personally, and collectively turbulent.

From there, we drop into somatic territory. We talk craniosacral therapy and the experience of “tides” in the system, from surface noise to the deeper mid tide and the long tide where time feels different. That becomes a living metaphor for the lunar path: not a heroic push to achieve, but a deepening that restores life force. We also bring in the Orphic Hymn to the Moon as an invocation practice and explore why reverence matters, not as an antique idea but as a way to relate to powers we still live inside.

We get practical about moon phases too: the dark of the moon as a window for retreat, the full moon as an emotional amplifier, and how lunar timing can support better choices in work, conflict, learning, and creativity. We move into dreams as night-world digestion, why forcing interpretations can block the nourishment, and how light pollution mirrors a cultural forgetting of darkness, sleep, and imagination. If you care about the lunar cycle, dreamwork, depth psychology, the Jungian unconscious, or the roots of astrology in the night sky, this conversation is for you.

*the above blurb was auto-generated by Buzzsprout's AI.

Cover Artwork is The Fairy of the moon by Hermann Kaulbach (b&w) circa 1891 with a background extension from Canva.

The Orphic Hymns including the one in this episode dedicated to the moon, and the invocation with Musaeus. It's the Thomas Taylor translation from 1792. Melanie's personal favourite.

Find out more about Melanie and her work here. She has many great books including, famously, Chiron and the Healing Journey.

Melanie reads from:

Dane Rudhyar, The Lunation Cycle: A Key to the Understanding of Personality, from the section “The Pattern of the Lunation Cycle.”

Rudolf Steiner, “In Pure Rays of Light”
The verse appears in Esoteric Instructions (GA 264), with related commentary in an esoteric lesson of 5 December 1907 (GA 266/I).

We discuss:

Iain McGilchrist's book: The Master and his Emissary and associate right brain activity with the moon and left brain with Mercury.

Jung, obviously, comes up a lot. I paraphrase this quotation from him.

We also talk about the Tides in Biodynamic Craniosacral Therapy. If you'd like to know more about that the work of Franklyn Sills (may he rest in peace) is a good starting point.

Clearing up the confusion of the 'far side' vs the 'dark side' of the moon we go to NASA...

But always appreciative to Pink Floyd for creating such confusion but also such a cracking album.

Melanie also mentions the Dark Sky Movement. Such important work. Have a look at https://darksky.org/.

We also acknowledge that "mentor" is not etymologically related to Mene or taurus. What we're engaging in during that section is a nice bit of folk etymology.

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The Planets Series begins with our closest and most intimate neighbour: the moon.

The moon represents the dreaming mind, our instinctive life and our guidance system to the emotional waves of our turbulent lives.

Each of these elements of the moon is explored in this episode with the help of three mythic figures:

• Selene as a personification of the moon riding her white cow through the sky, visiting her lover Endymion (one who finds himself within) in his cave as he dreams the eternal dream.
• Artemis as the wild, instinctual life that stays true to her nature and close to her essence.
• and Hekate, the triple goddess, who has her home in the underworld. It's Hekate who arrives in our most desperate times of need to accompany us in the realm of grief and loss.

The second half of the podcast begins with the image of Grimm's Hansel staring longingly back at his home as he's taken into the woods by his step-mother to be abandoned. He drops white stones on the ground that are then lit up by the moonlight to guide him back home.

From there we visit Mnemosyne's cellular memory, the thread-weavers and the way Ithaka pulls at Odysseus.

The Gorgons, including Medusa, will help us relate to the moments we feel unrelatable. There are many links between Medusa, the ocean and the moon. Including the Orphics calling the moon's face the Gorgoneion.

And finally Rilke with some soul-soothing words in his poem 'You Come and Go'.

Cover Art: Endymion : Effet de lune, ou Le Sommeil d’Endymion (The Sleep of Endymion), Anne-Louis Girodet de Roussy-Trioson, 1791.

I leant heavily on Gods of the Greeks, Carl Kerenyi, 1951

Very thankful to Brian Clark, Melanie Reinhart, Travis Elliot and Milena Kadziela for their help in the creation of this podcast.

For my German audience... The poem at the end from Rilke:

Du kommst und gehst

Du kommst und gehst. Die Türen fallen
viel sanfter zu, fast ohne Wehn.
Du bist der Leiseste von allen,
die durch die leisen Häuser gehn.

Man kann sich so an dich gewöhnen,
daß man nicht aus dem Buche schaut,
wenn seine Bilder sich verschönen,
von deinem Schatten überblaut;
weil dich die Dinge immer tönen
nur einmal leis und einmal laut.

Oft wenn ich dich in Sinnen sehe,
verteilt sich deine Allgestalt;
du gehst wie lauter lichte Rehe,
und ich bin dunkel und bin Wald.

Du bist ein Rad, an dem ich stehe:
von deinen vielen dunklen Achsen
wird immer wieder eine schwer
und dreht sich näher zu mir her,
und meine willigen Werke wachsen
von Wiederkehr zu Wiederkehr.

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I disappeared for a few months, went a bit underground, and even partially relocated my life to Greece so I could be a little closer to the gods I keep talking about. Now I’m ready to return with something simple, specific, and surprisingly alive: a new astrology podcast series on the planets, approached as characters of the psyche rather than abstract symbols on a page.

If the houses are the places where the saga of a life unfolds, the planets are the ones living it. I’ve been thinking of them less like an internal family system and more like an internal solar system, each planet representing a different part of the self with its own aims, needs, and ways of moving. We’ll take an imaginal voyage through the horoscope, stopping at one planet or luminary at a time, experimenting with what it feels like to become the Moon with its craters and shadow, the Sun with its heat and power, and Mercury with its fast, message-carrying urgency.

Myth will be one of our main guides. Because the planets share names with Greco-Roman figures, their stories give us a rich way to watch archetypes behave: who allies with whom, what gets opposed, and how a planet’s gifts can become traps when they run the inner world unchecked. The order of the series follows the Sun’s movement through the zodiac, exploring the ruler of the sign we’re in, beginning next week with the Moon as ruler of Cancer, then the Sun for Leo, then Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, plus a bonus planet and a special guest.

As usual, I’ll be joined by guests to explore each planetary archetype. We start with my dear friend, colleague, and mentor Melanie Reinhart for the lunar conversation. If you’d like to go deeper, paid Patreon members can join a monthly reflective Zoom call to ask questions about personal placements and continue the threads we leave open. Subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find this mythic astrology journey.

* My words here underwent a clean up from Buzzsprout's AI.

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The series on the houses wouldn't have felt complete without one last fairytale.

In this, the 40th and last episode of the series, we explore the German tale of Dornröschen, which loosely translates to 'the little rose inside the thorns'.

It begins with a talking frog who crawls out of the water to deliver a prophecy to the bathing queen. And it takes us into those places in ourselves that feel dormant. We feel that these parts have such great potential in our lives, but they remain fast asleep.

Until...

Well, that's the thing. The story takes us into the element of timing, of transits, of progressions, of gestation and of waiting until that which slumbers is ready to arouse.

I'm joined in a very synchronous way by Milena Kadziela, a fellow astrologer and psychotherapist. She sends a transmission from London, in the middle of the night, on the Libra Full Moon. The moon was at 12°, which is the 13th degree.

Milena, a listener to the show, felt that the one element that was missing in the series was that of the intercepted house. It happens that she uses this very story, Briar Rose, to speak to those hard to access parts of the chart.

And so, she joined us for a late cameo in the episode to drop her night wisdom on us all.

If you'd like to find out more about Milena's work you can find her here.

You can read the story itself here.

The image for the podcast is again from Artist and Patron, Lucy Dodd. Her work is also featured on episode 124 with Melanie Reinhart.

With an overlaid princess from a 1981 edition of La Belle Au Bois Dormant & Autres Contes Merveilleux (Sleeping Beauty & Other Wonderful Tales), published by Gruppo Editoriale Fabbri and Hachette.

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My guest for this episode is... well... me!

Astrologer Brian Clark interviews me, Chris Skidmore, in this episode as we look back on the journey that was the 12 Houses of Astrology. In no particular order, we move back through the images that captured our attention from the fairy tales, and revisit our 13 guests that helped us along the way.

Thank you to all of you who have come along with me in the sacred role of 'audience'... it's your listening that makes this possible.

Special shout out here to all of my wonderful guests. Find our more about their work by clicking their links:

Brian Clark: https://www.astrosynthesis.com.au/

Cameron Allen: www.cadreamplanet.com

Collette Davis: https://www.collettedavis.com/

Melanie Reinhart: melaniereinhart.com

Vive Oldham: https://www.viveandco.com/

Libby Rose Waite: https://libbyrosewaite.com/

Kira Sutherland: https://www.astrologyofhealth.com/

Ryan Nielsen: https://www.yourveryownlife.com/

Travis Elliott: https://travisjelliott.com/

Amanda Simon: amandasimon.co.uk

Thomas Moore: https://www.thomasmooresoul.com/

Michael Meade: https://www.mosaicvoices.org/

Jason Holley: jasonholley.net

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
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Melanie Reinhart joins me once more to speak into and from the 12th house of the wheel of houses. The episode itself is a wonderful example of how that which we talk about can sometimes be 'conjured up' by our speech. This is something that Gregory Bateson called a 'metalogue' - a word introduced to me by Melanie many moons ago.

Our metalogue was a disruption from the gods of technology who seemed to think that some of what we shared was best kept in silence. And so we were kicked off the call at a particularly poignant moment in this one.

None-the-less, the essence of the house was thoroughly explored. And we share with you whatever the deities allow us to reveal.

This completes our 'series within a series' on the water houses - those elusive and hard to grasp places of reality. I'm forever grateful to Melanie for her generosity of spirit in sharing her depth of wisdom with us on the podcast.

The image for the podcast cover is from Patron of the show, Lucy Dodd. It's a piece she calls "Sun Moon and Mermaid" made with, in her words, 'Iron oxide and Copper ink, blue spirulina, cochineal and some other stuff.'

She completed it just as our Iron John episodes were released.

REFERENCES

Authors & Thinkers

• Gregory Bateson
→ Concept of metalogue
→ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Bateson

• Carl Jung
→ Concept of the numinous
→ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numinous

• Dane Rudhyar
→ The Astrological Houses: The Spectrum of Individual Experience (also published as New Mansions for New Men)

• David Abram
→ Cultural perception / reality frameworks
→ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Abram

• C. A. Meier
→ Ancient Incubation and Modern Psychotherapy (republished as Healing Dream and Ritual)

• Brian Clark
→ Rewilding the psyche (concept referenced)

Mythological Sources & Figures

• Hyginus
→ Fabulae (mythographical fragments)

• Dionysus
→ Greek god of ecstasy, twice-born myth
→ https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html

• Asclepius
→ Greek god of healing and incubation temples
→ https://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Asklepios.html

• Ariadne
→ Associated with Dionysus, labyrinth, and Corona Borealis

• River Lethe & Mnemosyne
→ Rivers of forgetfulness and memory in the underworld

• Chiron & Chariklo
→ Centaur healer and his consort (associated with weaving/spinning)

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
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The 12th and final house of astrology is often given a bad wrap. It's considered the house of hidden enemies and of our own undoing. It rules over places we'd rather not be such as prisons, hospitals and asylums.

And yet, deep in this oceanic place in our charts we may meet the gods themselves. Figures from the collective unconscious who shape shift and morph, reveal and conceal themselves into and out of our minds.

It's a place that has associations with Neptune, Jupiter and Pisces; the deepest places of the ocean where our surface world probes can't reach. A place where Saturn, brooding and moody as he is, is in his Joy. Yes, that's right, Saturn has a joyful place.

In order to enter this house we need to leave our conscious tools at the door. We need to journey away from the known world on a wonderful sea journey with fantastic companions.

Hercules' 12th labour, Ariadne abandoned on Naxos and Hephaestus, the wounded goldsmith whose workshop is in a cave under the sea, will help us get a better feel for this place. Help us take a good look around and see what it is that we might be missing about this much maligned house, and what secret treasures it might be already, right now, shaping and re-shaping in the forge.

Podcast Cover: "Mercury Confiding the Infant Bacchus to the Nymphs of Nysa" by François Boucher.

Sources & References Mentioned in This Episode

Carl Jung – Modern Man in Search of a Soul

James Hillman – The Myth of Analysis

Arnold Mindell – Process-Oriented Psychology

Mircea Eliade – The Forge and the Crucible

Walt Whitman – Song of Myself, from Leaves of Grass

Roberto Calasso – The Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony

The Delphic Maxims (including “Know Thyself”)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims

Mythological Figures & Stories Explored

• Heracles and Cerberus • The Labours of Heracles
• Theseus and the Minotaur
• Ariadne and Dionysus on Naxos
• Hephaestus and the forge beneath the sea
• The Golden Net of Ares and Aphrodite
• Cronus and the Golden Age

Additional Astrological Themes

• The Twelfth House • Neptune and the Oceanic Realm
• Saturn’s Joy in the Twelfth House
• The Water Houses: 4th, 8th and 12th
• The Ascendant as Threshold (the “door-slab” of the chart)

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
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Go to OnTheSoulsTerms.com for more.

Part Two of our wanderings with Iron John/Hans. The episode begins with the moss bed made for the boy in the forest. Ryan shares soulful reflections on moss itself; known as a 'boundary layer' that draws moisture not from the ground up but from the air down. Moss forms little cups to gather water from the electricity in the air, which must be one of the most Aquarian/11th House symbols I've ever heard.

We re-enter the story where we left off in part one; the boy is learning to listen in to his inner most knowing. In speaking for the scent of the wild flowers he shows us that his time asleep on the moss transformed his sense of reality. He is becoming ready to work with the gold/wound split in his consciousness.

In the second half of the story we encounter much Chironic imagery. A three-legged 'hobblety jig' horse speaks to our current moment as Chiron moves through the last phase of Aries and Saturn/Neptune through the first. What does this story tell us about Aries energy, wounded kings, lost wildness and the world's deep thirst?

It's a longer episode than most, but once you listen in you'll see why. To get the most nourishment from this story we needed to move more with Kairos time than Kronos. The result, however, is a very nourishing alchemical brew.

So grateful to Ryan's wife, Holly Parson Nielsen, for the artwork for the episode. It conjures the movement of the story so well from the well to the moss to the gold. Thank you Holly.

If you'd like to know more about Ryan's work, or perhaps book a session with him to explore his approach to astrology, mythology and the dreaming body, go to https://www.yourveryownmyth.com/.

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
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Ryan Nielsen joins the podcast again (see episode 104 for our circuitous meanderings on Allerleirauh) to explore the Grimm tale of Iron John (or Iron Hans) whilst reflecting about the cusp between the known and unknown worlds (the 11th and 12th house cusp).

Iron John is a story that was made famous by the poet Robert Bly in the 1990s. It became the central story that he worked with in his book by the same name. Robert uses the story to illustrate the many trials and tribulations in the process of becoming a man in the modern world.

Ryan and I pick the story up not from the hands of Bly but from the creative commons of the story itself. We let the images lead us. The story comes alive in a new way in this conversation as we riff and bounce and feel and atune to it with the backdrop of the 11th and 12th house to guide us.

If you'd like to connect with Ryan he has just launched his new website: yourveryownmyth.com.

Join us on Patreon to discuss the episode! You can join in for free or pledge some appreciation.

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
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Astrologer Jason Holley joins me again on the podcast today to delve into the 11th house - the house of groups, the polis, mass media, theatre, the audience, 'the people'.

It’s a rich and far-reaching conversation that, we both felt, got right to the heart of this complex and often misunderstood house that takes us into the entangled world of collective consciousness.

Along the way we speak on:

• diurnal motion as the lived logic of house meanings
• the 11th as context maker for 10th house vocation
• Jupiter’s joy, morale, and shared vision
• theater, polis, and mass media as 11th house arenas
• fifth–eleventh polarity of eros and audience
• Athena’s birth as vision turning into action
• Medusa’s image as power carried into public life
• hopes and dreams versus cynicism and dissociation
• worldwork, conflict, and group process as remedies
• all our relations beyond humans in the group field

Cover Artwork: James Gurney - Clashing Rocks

Further reading

• Homer — The Iliad (Zeus, “the plan of Zeus”, collective order and fate)
• Homer — The Odyssey (Athena as Mentor; Telemachus and guidance/destiny)
• Ovid — Metamorphoses (mythic transformation as a living psychological process)
• Roberto Calasso — The Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony (brilliant modern retelling/interpretation of Greek myth)
• Arnold Mindell — Sitting in the Fire (worldwork, group fields, conflict as an intelligence)
• Jacob L. Moreno — Who Shall Survive? (psychodrama and group dynamics foundations)

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
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What happens when personal destiny meets the wider world of friends, teams, and the public square? We dive into the Eleventh House as the arena where your hard‑won calling turns into collective contribution, guided by Aquarius’s twin rulers—Saturn, who sets the frame, and Uranus, who refreshes it. Along the way, we unpack how projection travels from siblings to partners to society, why the traits you disown often show up as “the group,” and how to retrieve that gold without losing yourself.

We lean on myth and psychology to make it practical. Jupiter, in joy here, models leadership that holds tension without collapsing into control or chaos. Athena shows how to carry real achievement into service with clarity. Hermes, the psychopomp, translates Twelfth‑House visions into language the public can actually use. And the dance of Apollo and Dionysus reveals why cultures need both order and creative disruption to stay alive. From festivals that loosen roles to structures that protect dissent, the message is simple: give the trickster a seat and the rules a spine.

You’ll also hear how Hercules and the Argonauts illustrate an Eleventh‑House upgrade to leadership—when the central hero steps aside, the system wakes up and many gifts emerge. We explore participation mystique in both its light and shadow: the ecstasy of healthy belonging versus the danger of melting into the mass. Expect grounded cues for spotting the difference and for building teams that are resilient, creative, and humane. If you’re ready to turn personal genius into public good—without burning out or blending in—this conversation will meet you where you are and stretch you where you’re going.

If this sparked something, subscribe, leave a quick review, and share it with a friend who leads or longs to belong. Your support helps more thoughtful listeners find the show.

* the above was autogenerated by Buzzsprout's AI.

The podcast art is oil painted on canvas by Leonid Ilyukhin - Apollo and Dionysus.

I mentioned a book by Arnold Mindell called Sitting in the Fire (but I mistakenly called it Standing in the Fire. Also an option but not the correct name of the book). This book is well worth looking into if you'd like to find out more about how Process Oriented Psychotherapy works with groups. Truly visionary stuff for our times.

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
Please consider becoming a Patron to support the show!
Go to OnTheSoulsTerms.com for more.

Michael Meade rejoins the podcast to discuss all things 11th house; the house of collective consciousness, groups, teams and the Polis: society at large. The 11th is where the great mystery occurs in the interaction between the individual cell and the whole organism.

Michael's words act as a steadying force in unsettling times. He brings us back to a sense of cohesion and collaboration, reminding us of our internal spark of life that he calls the Genius. In his vision, that he draws from ancient wells, he sees a world of individuals waking up to the truth within their souls and participating in the creation of a new world as the current paradigms collapse. The more this happens the more gold within the cracks of the world are revealed.

In these times of upheaval and uncertainty, Michael gives us a soothing balm whilst encouraging us to step forward and participate in the great theatre of life.

Within this episodes theatre we meet the following characters:

• Phaëthon
The figure who takes power without inner maturity; the danger of inflated authority disconnected from soul.
• Christ
The one nailed to the crossroads of collective tension; sacrifice, revelation, and the danger of myth hardening into dogma.
• Dionysus
The twice-born god; Eros, ecstasy, dismemberment, and the return of soul energy that culture tries to repress.
• Tiresias — the blind seer; inner sight over literal vision; prophetic knowing that comes through loss, transition, and a life lived between worlds.
• Hermes
The trickster and messenger; boundary-crosser, mediator between worlds, carrier of transition.
• Vishnu
The cosmic dreamer; the world inhaled and exhaled through cycles of dissolution and renewal.
• The Trickster
Disruptor of rigid systems; brings medicine through paradox, humour, and mischief.
• The Genius
The indwelling spirit unique to each person; purpose as something listened to rather than achieved.
• The Outsider
The one on the margins; carrier of renewal and new imagination when the centre collapses.
• The Bodhisattva
The figure who returns to the broken world rather than escaping it; compassion in times of collapse.

Visit Michael Meade's website here where you can find links to his podcast, books and offerings.

Cover Art: The Fall of the Rebel Angels - an oil-on-panel painting created in 1562 by Pieter Bruegel the Elder.

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Podcast Musician: Marlia Coeur
Please consider becoming a Patron to support the show!
Go to OnTheSoulsTerms.com for more.