People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast

Summary

In this episode, Andy talks with John R. Miles, host of the Passion Struck podcast and author of The Mattering Effect: Creating a Life of Meaning and Worth. John is a Naval Academy graduate, former Navy officer, and longtime Fortune 50 executive who built what looked like a very successful life, until his young son asked him, "Dad, how come you never laugh anymore?"

John and Andy explore the difference between belonging and mattering, and how leaders can spot team members who quietly feel interchangeable. You'll hear what the Surfside building collapse teaches us about warning signs on teams that are still delivering, why recognition for accomplishments doesn't always land, and how to uncover the hidden rules that run our lives, like the belief that we have to earn rest. They also discuss how to build a sense of mattering sturdy enough to survive AI, and what John would tell a younger version of himself as a dad.

If you're looking for a deeply human conversation about meaning, worth, and the people side of leading, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "We see the resume, and oftentimes we don't see the person that ended up becoming the resume."
• "The most important thing she taught me was that I could either continue to be a victim or I could choose the opposite."
• "One of the tragedies of life is we often wait until someone is gone before we tell them how much they've shaped us."
• "The people who notice the drift the most, if you have them, are your kids."
• "When you hear those things, that's not a belonging problem, that's a mattering problem."
• "The leader's job isn't just to include people. It's to help people understand the unique difference that they make."
• "Buildings don't collapse overnight. Neither do teams. Neither do families. Neither do relationships."
• "They stop bringing the ideas. They stop challenging the decisions. They stop disagreeing, and all of a sudden you end up with groupthink."
• "Recognition often celebrates what you've accomplished. Mattering, on the other hand, recognizes who you are on that journey."
• "That's not how life works. The deck's never gonna clear."
• "I try to think about what deserves my attention today because it matters, not because it's urgent."
• "If your worth comes from being useful, then artificial intelligence is terrifying. But if your worth comes from being human, AI can't replace that."
• "People matter because they're people, not because they're productive."
• "Your children don't need a perfect mother or father. They need a present one."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:58 Start of Interview
• 02:10 The Speech Therapist Who Made John Feel Like He Mattered
• 05:22 Telling People How They Shaped Us Before It's Too Late
• 07:48 When Usefulness Is Undeniable and Humanity Is Optional
• 11:32 When Others See the Cost Before We Do
• 14:41 The Difference Between Belonging and Mattering
• 17:01 Resources, Quiet Meetings, and Feeling Interchangeable
• 19:09 Surfside and the Warning Signs We Normalize
• 22:24 When People Stop Raising Risks
• 23:45 When Recognition Doesn't Land
• 27:18 Rewarding Outcomes Instead of People
• 28:50 Hidden Rules and Who Installed Them
• 31:26 The People Pleaser Rule
• 32:15 Mattering When AI Can Do Your Job
• 34:39 Advice for a Younger Dad
• 36:52 End of Interview
• 37:30 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 41:33 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about John and his work at https://matteringeffect.com/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 134 with Scott Mautz. It goes way back in the podcast archives, and many of the ideas from that conversation are still relevant today.
• Episode 31 with Adam Grant, his first-ever podcast interview, where we talk about what it means to lead with meaning.
• Episode 385 with Vanessa Patrick about her book The Power of Saying No, packed with ideas for when you need to draw the line.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Mattering, Belonging, Meaning, Recognition, Burnout, Team Culture, Speaking Up, Hidden Rules, Rest, Artificial Intelligence, Parenting

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Tranceverse by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy talks with John Tarnoff, an executive career transition coach, TEDx speaker, and founder of the Mid-Career Lab. After 35 years in Hollywood as an agent, studio executive, and film producer, John found himself starting over at 50 when his tech startup collapsed. He likes to say he's been fired 39% of the time, and he built his second act around helping experienced professionals reinvent their careers.

John and Andy discuss why losing a job is an event rather than a failure, and how to talk about it with honesty and a sense of humor in your next interview. You'll hear the difference between a network and a community, how to make networking feel less transactional, and why every conversation, including the job interview, is a networking event. They also explore claiming a niche while staying adaptable, quieting the inner voice of self-directed ageism, and using AI in your job search without sounding like everyone else.

If you're looking for practical, hopeful insights on navigating a mid-career transition, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "It's always a kick in the gut."
• "Job loss is right up there with major losses like death and divorce."
• "Losing a job isn't a failure. It is an event, and it is potentially a lesson."
• "Your network is everyone in your Rolodex, virtual or real. They will be the ones who will stand by and watch you fail."
• "A community is a subset. They understand you, identify with you, they're rooting for you, they will chip in and help you succeed."
• "Your resume, which is your LinkedIn experience section, is your bio."
• "You want to use that About section as a call to conversation."
• "Every conversation, at the end of the day, is a networking event."
• "So people hire people, they don't hire skills."
• "Very often your superpower is something that you don't even understand that you do."
• "Polish in an interview can sometimes work against you."
• "There's always an opportunity to turn your life around."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:26 Start of Interview
• 02:33 Shifting Focus from Projects to People
• 06:15 The Story We Tell Ourselves After Losing a Job
• 10:50 Getting Fired Is an Event, Not a Failure
• 12:46 The Difference Between a Network and a Community
• 16:44 Making Networking Feel Less Transactional
• 21:03 Every Conversation Is a Networking Event
• 23:11 People Hire People, Not Skills
• 24:03 Claiming a Niche While Staying T-Shaped
• 27:03 How John Discovered His Superpower
• 30:44 Signs You Haven't Reconciled Your Past
• 34:14 Blaming, Justifying, and Taking Responsibility
• 37:40 Ageism and the Inner Voice That Says You're Slowing Down
• 41:22 Reinvention Is a Mindset, Not a Number
• 42:35 Using AI Without Flattening Your Voice
• 45:53 The Mid-Career Lab
• 48:03 Helping Kids Think About Identity, Setbacks, and Reinvention
• 49:50 Sampling Life Like a Buffet
• 50:30 End of Interview
• 51:11 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 55:02 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about John and his work at https://www.midcareerlab.com/. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn, and while you're there, check out how he uses his About section.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 261 with David Epstein. His book Range came up several times in this conversation about generalists, specialists, and the value of sampling.
• Episode 318 with John Stepper. It's a great follow-up to this episode, with practical ideas on building your network and personal brand.
• Episode 310 with Jeff Gothelf about how to make yourself forever employable by building the well before you're thirsty.
• Episode 374 with Catherine Kaputa, who shares lessons on personal branding and making a big change across industries.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Career Transition, Reinvention, Job Loss, Networking, Community, Personal Branding, LinkedIn, Interviewing, Ageism, Artificial Intelligence, Mid-Career, Leadership

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Awakening by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy talks with Jia Jiang, bestselling author of Rejection Proof and creator of the 100 Days of Rejection experiment, about his new book, Easy Discipline. Growing up in Beijing, Jia was taught the value of chi ku, or "eating bitterness," the idea that the more pain you can tolerate, the more you can achieve. The problem? He was terrible at it. Over time, he discovered that his best work came when he was having the most fun.

Andy and Jia explore what easy discipline does and doesn't mean, why action goals can work better than outcome goals, and how stepping into a character, like a consultant instead of a salesperson, can change your results. They also discuss how project leaders can build a momentum loop early, how a single one-action goal can help turn around a struggling project, why some efforts work best as time-boxed sprints, and how to tell normal resistance from work that simply doesn't fit who you are. Jia closes with stories of how he and his wife apply easy discipline as parents.

If you're looking for a more sustainable way to stay consistent without constantly fighting yourself, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "It literally translates into English as eating bitterness.... The idea is the more bitterness, the more pain you can tolerate, the higher achievement you can go to."
• "If work ethic is the only thing that matters, the best factory workers will be the richest people in the world, right?"
• "It's really the inner drive that takes us to go a long way."
• "I did programming to achieve a goal, to achieve some sort of success. He did programming for fun."
• "The things I didn't like to do? I failed miserably. For the things I like to do, I was doing them so well."
• "If you can tap into the 'play' part of yourself, the enjoyment part, that's where you are at your best, even at work."
• "Having a deadline, having a finish line is sometimes magical."
• "The key for me as a parent is this: How do I enjoy being with them more?"

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:58 Start of Interview
• 02:08 Seen as Lazy and Hopeless: Learning to "Eat Bitterness"
• 04:53 Grind Culture and the Myth of Hard Work Alone
• 06:21 Elon Musk and the Power of Inner Drive
• 08:00 What Easy Discipline Doesn't Mean
• 09:11 Chasing the Bill Gates Dream
• 11:42 Fired and Rehired by the Same Boss
• 13:26 Applying Easy Discipline to Losing Weight
• 16:05 Outcome Goals vs. Action Goals
• 17:48 What Jia Still Hasn't Made Enjoyable
• 20:28 Getting Into Character
• 22:36 Accessing a Real Part of Yourself at Work
• 23:43 Building a Momentum Loop Early in a Project
• 26:05 Delivering Early and Finding Stakeholder Support
• 27:14 One Action Goal for a Struggling Project
• 29:22 Why Jia Told a CEO to Stop After 100 Days
• 31:03 When Fast-Tracking Everything Backfires
• 32:33 Normal Resistance or the Wrong Work?
• 35:22 Living Someone Else's Dream
• 37:23 Easy Discipline as Parents
• 41:02 End of Interview
• 41:44 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 45:27 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Jia and his work at https://www.jiajiang.com/. You can also watch his TED Talk, What I Learned from 100 Days of Rejection.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 522 with Ross Blankenship and Maggie Sass. Their book Friction shares related ideas about reducing the friction in what we do.
• Episode 377 with Cassie Holmes. She's a happiness researcher who shares evidence-based approaches to live and work with more meaning and joy.
• Episode 242 with James Clear about his bestselling book, Atomic Habits, which has a lot in common with turning hard things into habits.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Discipline, Motivation, Habits, Goal Setting, Momentum, Project Management, Leadership, Stakeholder Engagement, Career Development, Self-Awareness, Intrinsic Motivation, Parenting

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Laughing Children Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy talks with Dr. Kelly Heuer, Vice President of Learning at PMI, where she leads global learning strategy across professional standards, training, certification, and career-long development. Kelly takes us behind the scenes of the updated PMP® exam and explains what changed in project work that made this refresh necessary.

You'll hear why the business environment domain now makes up nearly a quarter of the exam, how new multi-question case scenarios assess judgment instead of memorization, and why broader recognition of associate and vocational degrees matters to her as a first-generation college graduate. Kelly and Andy also explore what a strategic project leader actually looks like, why judgment may be the new job security in the age of AI, and practical ways early-career professionals can build judgment as entry-level rungs disappear. Kelly shares how she learned to say the thing, the difference between perishable and enduring skills, and the two capabilities she most wants to grow in her kids.

If you're preparing for the PMP, already certified, or looking to sharpen your judgment as a project leader in a world shaped by AI, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "You needed a project manager. And instead you got me, and I have no idea what I'm doing."
• "But you know, I am a firm believer that, you know, the credential associated with your name, the name of your university, whether you went to university or not, is nowhere near an adequate representation of your actual potential or your actual skill."
• "You don't have three facts. You have an entire story, right?"
• "Having a consistent measurement system where you're looking at value accumulation, value realization throughout the course of a project through project close is a really important differentiator."
• "And it's about thinking three steps ahead and three rings out like in concentric circles of influence."
• "But one of the ways you can combat that is being specific about what you mean and what it looks like, right?"
• "But, you know, the way I think of it is AI is just, like, the latest test of professional judgment."
• "But I want to make one more point as well, which is that learning by osmosis was never a good professional development strategy anyway."
• "So in here, in this case, I actually think AI is part of the solution to the problem that AI caused, which is one of the great things about AI, even the freely available tools, is it's kind of like an inexhaustible interlocutor."
• "Find ways to lead and manage small projects, even if you're just organizing trash collection in your neighborhood."
• "I think there's also just a lot of observational learning that doesn't have to hurt at all."
• "But you can do a lot of saying the thing, challenging directly, asking the question if you pair it with a lot of signals of interpersonal warmth, which can be things like smiling and eye contact."
• "It's so much less relevant to actually wordsmith your prompt now. It's much more about context engineering."
• "So in my opinion, the most enduring human skill of all is a capability for continuous learning, staying curious, staying fresh, staying open and permeable to new information, and strategic about how you build those skills so you're not wasting time doing it."
• "The robots are overconfident."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:00 Start of Interview
• 02:12 From Philosophy to Project Management
• 04:55 What Changed in Project Work to Drive the PMP Exam Update
• 07:52 Business Acumen and the Shift Toward Agile and Hybrid
• 09:22 Recognizing Associate Degrees and Technical Education
• 11:22 Counting Project Experience After Career Gaps
• 13:29 Inside the New Multi-Question Case Scenarios
• 16:47 Exam Prep Advice That No Longer Helps
• 18:46 Closing the Gap Between the Real World and the Exam
• 20:49 What a Strategic Project Leader Does Differently
• 25:11 Avoiding Bias When Assessing Strategic Thinking
• 26:17 Judgment as the New Job Security in the Age of AI
• 29:15 How Early Career Professionals Can Build Judgment
• 34:51 Small Projects, Observational Learning, and Near Peer Learning
• 36:54 Learning to Say the Thing
• 40:17 Coming Across as an Ally, Not a Critic
• 41:21 Perishable, Durable, and Enduring Skills
• 45:14 Growing Curiosity and Humility in Our Kids
• 48:18 End of Interview
• 48:51 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 51:53 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Kelly and her work on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-heuer/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 319 with Sierra Hampton Simmons. Sierra is the former head of certification at PMI, and many of the ideas we discussed still apply to the refreshed PMP exam.
• Episode 513 with Fred Marshall. It's not about certification, but it's all about thriving in an age of AI, a major theme in today's episode.
• Episode 509 with Steve Kahle. Steve shares practical ideas for improving your ability to recall what you've learned.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Pass the PMP Exam

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to https://5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: PMP Certification, PMP Exam, Project Management, Business Acumen, Judgment, Strategic Thinking, Systems Thinking, Artificial Intelligence, Career Development, Early Career Professionals, Continuous Learning, Communication

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Dr. Maggie Sass and Dr. Ross Blankenship, consulting psychologists and authors of Friction: How Tension, Emotion and Change Reveal Better Leaders. Project managers are trained to remove blockers, and much of the time that's exactly right. But Maggie and Ross draw a distinction that's easy to miss: some friction is simply waste, and some friction is information.

You'll hear how the unwritten rules we learned about emotion early in life still shape how we lead, what starts happening in a room before an irritated leader says a word, and the four words Ross thinks can rescue a team meeting. We also dig into why burnout is often a system design problem instead of a self-care problem, what a project leader can actually do about structural friction when they can't redesign the whole system, and which human capabilities are worth protecting as AI makes more of our work faster and easier.

If you're looking for a more practical way to read the tension on your team and use what it's telling you, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "But I think the unwritten rule at home was that talking about emotions and living through them safely were two distinct things."
• "Humans need things, and sometimes they don't even know what they need until you are together in a space or in a call."
• "You don't ask questions. You don't bring up creative ideas because you have no idea how that's really gonna go given what you're watching a leader do."
• "But I think the older I've gotten, the more convinced I am that our job as adults inside organizations is not necessarily to be perfect, but it's to repair as fast as possible when you make a mistake, and that's the thing that doesn't happen when people are scared."
• "I've found that these four words can save your team (and marriage): 'I'm experiencing some friction'."
• "It helps me remember that between the stimulus and the response, I have space, and the more that I give myself, the better."
• "There is no real way to separate task and relationship because the humans are doing the tasks."
• "Being the hero may allow you to solve massive problems or create really compelling products in the short term, but it's not a sustainable way to run a business because businesses are run by people and people have limits."
• "It's a good example where AI makes you more productive, like, you got 'em done faster, and almost entirely strips the meaning out of it."
• "And we need to take seriously that our kids need to learn to fail so that they develop resilience."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:14 Start of Interview
• 02:23 The Unwritten Rules Maggie Learned About Emotion
• 04:06 Growing Up in Ross's House
• 05:41 Why Ross Was Skeptical of EQ
• 08:22 What Ross's Pushback Changed for Maggie
• 11:01 Do You Have EQ, or Do You Do EQ?
• 13:06 Can We Get Too Good at Smoothing the Path?
• 16:56 Where Ross Deliberately Leaves Friction in Place
• 18:46 What AI Missed When They Tried Using It on the Book
• 20:35 Leadership as Emotional Intelligence in Action
• 20:50 What Happens When an Irritated Leader Walks In
• 24:39 Four Words That Can Change the Room
• 27:00 When Your Body Writes the Story First
• 29:28 Maggie's Physical Cue and How She Creates Space
• 32:55 Burnout as a System Design Problem
• 35:28 Patterns, Hero Ball, and Structural Friction
• 37:00 A First Move When You Can't Redesign the System
• 38:39 Which Human Capabilities Should We Protect From AI?
• 42:11 What Maggie Refuses to Outsource
• 43:27 Parenting: When to Remove Friction, When to Allow It
• 46:22 The Tin Can Phone and a Kid Who Made Her Own Plans
• 48:44 End of Interview
• 49:18 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 53:13 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Maggie, Ross, and their book at https://www.talentsmarteq.com/friction/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 397 with Dr. Julia DiGangi. It's a discussion about emotions that has stuck with Andy for years, and it's a great supplement to today's conversation.
• Episode 394 with Joshua Freedman. Joshua is a leading voice on emotional intelligence, making this a really good follow-up to Friction.
• Episode 446 with Adam Galinsky. Helpful insights on how to inspire those around us instead of sucking the life out of them.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Emotional Intelligence, Friction, Conflict, Psychological Safety, Burnout, Team Culture, Artificial Intelligence, Parenting, Self-Awareness, Communication

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Ignotus by Agnese Valmaggia License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Dr. Jeremy Pollack, a social-organizational psychologist and founder of Pollack Peacebuilding Systems, author of Wired for Peace: Using 7 Neuroscience-Based Principles to Resolve Conflicts. Jeremy looks at conflict through the lens of the brain and nervous system, which helps explain why disagreements escalate so quickly and why the fixes we reach for often make things worse.

Andy and Jeremy talk about why de-escalation has to come before problem-solving, since solutions and stress do not mix. Jeremy walks us through his Sapien Model of six basic psychological needs, giving us a far more useful lens than labeling a stakeholder difficult, defensive, or resistant. You will hear how memory and prediction shape the way we read the person in front of us, what a team learns when its leader consistently avoids conflict, and why changing our experience of conflict requires new experiences, not just new beliefs. Jeremy also shares how this shows up at home, in marriage and parenting.

If you're looking for a practical, evidence-based way to handle the conflicts that come with leading, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "The most fruitful relationships from what I've seen at work, at home, et cetera, are those that can weather storms without the real fear of abandonment."
• "That was pretty interesting to me to see how much of the science is telling us that, like, our brain is mostly a predictive machine."
• "Anytime we're in an escalated or emotionally charged state, there's something going on in our brains, usually subconsciously, that's tracking a threat or an impediment to our basic needs."
• "It's de-escalate first because solutions and stress just don't mix."
• "What I'm feeling right now is not a result of what the person's saying. It's a result of the way my body is responding."
• "I call it an experiential thumbprint. It's completely unique to you and no one else has your nervous system, and you don't have anyone else's."
• "If we have a negative experience with someone and we go into a place of fear or pain or anger or something like that, the way that we see them going forward can change very, very quickly, and it's a lot harder to get us to unsee that."
• "We access memories in edit mode. And so after we retrieve it, and when we write it back, it's not always quite the same thing, and that's always made me question not is that memory correct as much as is it completely correct."
• "All conflict is an opportunity for learning."
• "The threat of abandonment is the big thing to really watch for when we're having arguments."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:27 Start of Interview
• 02:35 The Family Cultures That Shaped How Jeremy Sees Conflict
• 05:51 In Awe of How Much We Still Do Not Know About the Brain
• 07:49 The Brain as a Prediction Machine
• 09:55 The Salad Lady and What Sits Underneath Defensive Behavior
• 12:45 An Introduction to the Sapien Model
• 16:19 Why a Framework Beats a Label
• 16:58 De-escalate First: Catching Yourself Before It Is Too Late
• 20:54 When Our De-escalation Attempts Backfire
• 22:43 Empathy Without Having to Agree
• 25:03 How Memory Distorts the Person in Front of Us
• 27:46 We Do Not Access Memory as Read-Only
• 30:45 Joe, the Conflict-Avoidant CEO, and What a Team Learns
• 33:03 Taking Inventory When Nobody Pushes Back
• 34:53 New Experiences of Conflict, Not Just New Beliefs
• 38:08 Tell Me More: Creating a Gap Between Stimulus and Response
• 40:31 Peace Starts in Small Ways
• 42:49 Interrupting the Pavlovian Pattern
• 44:19 Bringing It Home: Marriage, Parenting, and Attachment
• 47:17 End of Interview
• 47:57 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 51:57 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Jeremy and his work at https://coachjeremypollack.com/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 371 with Amanda Ripley. Amanda is an amazing writer, and her book High Conflict is a great follow-up to today's discussion.
• Episode 148 with Dan Shapiro. The title of his book Negotiating the Nonnegotiable sounds like it's about negotiating, but it's really about navigating the conflicts that suck the life out of us.
• Episode 61 with Mike Roberto. That discussion was over 15 years ago, and there are ideas from it that Andy still uses to this day.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Conflict Resolution, Neuroscience, De-escalation, Psychological Safety, Emotional Regulation, Memory, Stakeholder Management, Team Culture, Accountability, Parenting

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: On Point by Steven O'Brien License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Johan Roos, professor and executive advisor at Hult International Business School, Executive Director of the Peter Drucker Society Europe, and co-inventor of the LEGO® Serious Play® method. Johan is the author of Human Magic: Leading with Wisdom in an Age of Algorithms, and he has spent decades studying how people think, create, decide, and lead together.

Andy and Johan explore the two paths Johan calls erosion and amplification, starting with a question Andy has been wrestling with as he hands more of his manual driving over to Tesla's self-driving. You'll hear what an eroding project manager actually looks like day-to-day, why practical wisdom matters when the analytically optimal answer is not the wisest one, and how AI feeds one kind of curiosity, the laser, while starving another, the radar. Johan also explains the difference between becoming an AI concierge and practicing what he calls professional citizenship, and he shares what parents can do to help their kids hold onto the messy, hands-on curiosity that machines cannot supply.

If you're looking for a thoughtful, hopeful way to use AI without surrendering your judgment, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "Almost every good idea I've had was not in front of the screen."
• "I know what to do, but I've stopped understanding why.".... The eroding project management can no longer explain the why."
• "So in a sense, they argue that the better the system, the stronger pull down the erosion curve."
• "So the message is really when the machines are taking over more and more of some of these subtle, very valuable capabilities we have, we have to climb the value creation ladder."
• "So a complexity is exactly where our wisdom gets exposed."
• "So every metric said fantastic, but nobody asked why, and is this right?"
• "If AI can write a document that is important to you, the document was never where the value lived."
• "But we just have to be careful to not sort of delegate too much of our brain power and sort of erode our jelly bean."
• "When you lean back and you haven't struggled enough, you may be super smart and, and the best brilliant individual in the world, but, you know, friction is good."
• "Are you able to argue for your case without holding on to the AI-produced slide?"
• "Protect the wandering curiosity, unstructured exploration, questions with no immediate payoff, the freedom to follow something nowhere in particular."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:35 Start of Interview
• 02:44 Growing Up Inquisitive and the Power of "Because"
• 06:04 Self-Driving Cars, GPS, and the Erosion of Our Abilities
• 10:31 Becoming an Active Supervisor Instead of a Passive Passenger
• 13:55 What an Eroding Project Manager Looks Like Day to Day
• 18:52 When the Optimal Answer Is Not the Wisest One
• 22:03 Intuition, Gut Feel, and When Something Does Not Smell Right
• 25:54 The Laser and the Radar: Two Kinds of Curiosity
• 27:52 Creating Independently Before Consulting AI
• 30:44 What Happens in the AI-Free Time
• 35:18 Is It Intuition or Is It Ego?
• 37:48 Turning the Models Loose on His Own Book
• 40:00 Asking AI to Be Brutally Honest
• 41:02 AI Concierge Versus Professional Citizenship
• 45:51 Advice for Parents Raising Kids in the Age of AI
• 49:26 Staying Human: Theater, Walks, and Getting Your Hands Dirty
• 50:44 End of Interview
• 51:15 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 54:46 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Johan and his work at https://humanmagic.one/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 500 with Steve Brown. Steve is a former Google DeepMind futurist, and he has a unique perspective on where we've been and where we're going with AI.
• Episode 479 with Matt Mong. Matt shares his take on the AI skills we need to stay relevant in the years to come.
• Episode 463 with Faisal Hoque. Faisal helps us go beyond the fear and the hype around AI to a helpful way to think about the human-AI relationship.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Artificial Intelligence, Practical Wisdom, Curiosity, Critical Thinking, Creativity, Decision Making, Judgment, Professional Development, Human Skills, Parenting

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Chillhouse by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Owen Fitzpatrick, a psychologist, speaker, and author of Inner Propaganda: Leading Hearts and Minds through Turbulent Times. Owen has spent close to 30 years studying how beliefs form and change, interviewing people everywhere from North Korea to Rwanda to Afghanistan. His thesis is unsettling: our brains do not simply take in facts and reach objective conclusions. They build a story we then experience as reality.

Owen and Andy work through what that means on real projects. You'll hear how a warning from a colleague can quietly harden into a conviction about a teammate, and how Bayesian reasoning gives you a way out. You'll learn Owen's five types of truth, how to tell courageous conviction from dangerous denial, and what leaders can actually make stable when they cannot promise a stable outcome. Owen also explains why pushing harder for buy-in is often the very reason people resist, and how an antifragile identity helps teams face uncertainty like AI without denial or panic.

If you're looking for a fresh way to think about belief, influence, and leading through turbulent times, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "We all live in that world where we think we're the one person that isn't the victim of propaganda, and my point or my thesis is we're all victims of our own inner propaganda."
• "We're not necessarily just convinced by others. We convince ourselves."
• "Because I think when we say, 'I'm no good at something,' we lock ourselves into it."
• "Well, if you're not great at communicating with people, get great."
• "Most of the time our beliefs just create a sort of a reality for us, and that reality can help us or harm us."
• "So our brains are prediction machines."
• "Whenever we talk about belief, believing in your ability to succeed in the future is critical if you want to succeed in the future, but that doesn't mean you deny the present."
• "It, it's not that we think negatively, it's we believe negatively, and we see the world through those lenses."
• "So I think we want to be able to challenge our beliefs and build a bit more and get more comfortable with uncertainty away from the table, but when we're at the table with our team, that's when we bring the certainty."
• "We like the idea that we are making this decision of our own free will."
• "And when you look at what a belief is, a belief is an idea we feel certain about, and that word feel is the most important word of that sentence."
• "It's okay to believe less in certain things. It's okay to believe more in certain things. It's okay to believe better."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:29 Start of Interview
• 02:40 The Belief About Himself Owen Took Too Long to Update
• 05:56 A Sweaty Debate Speech and What Came After
• 08:28 Not Good at Something Is a Skill Gap, Not an Identity
• 09:45 The Belief Growth Mindset
• 12:55 The Sandra Story: When a Warning Becomes a Conviction
• 14:07 Why the Brain Craves Cognitive Closure
• 17:15 Using Bayesian Reasoning to Loosen a Belief
• 21:00 Melanie Perkins and Alan Mulally: Conviction or Denial?
• 21:36 The Five Types of Truth
• 26:24 Just Because It Is Your Truth Does Not Make It True
• 28:41 Where Objective Truth Actually Belongs
• 31:47 What "Leadership Is Propaganda" Does Not Mean
• 34:45 Why Change Management and AI Adoption Stall
• 36:30 Why Owen Chose Propaganda Over Self-Talk
• 37:57 Do I Believe It Because It Makes Me Look Good?
• 38:49 Answering the AI Question Without Denial or Hype
• 40:15 Building an Antifragile Identity
• 44:27 Certainty Is Contagious, and When to Change Course
• 45:20 What Leaders Can Make Stable in a Volatile Period
• 47:45 Control What You Can, Influence What You Can, Accept the Rest
• 51:01 When Pushing for Buy-In Creates the Resistance
• 52:45 You're Asking the Wrong Question About Persuasion
• 54:30 Reading the Person Before You Make the Ask
• 57:30 Helping Kids Hold Strong Beliefs Without Contempt
• 1:01:46 End of Interview
• 1:02:15 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 1:05:09 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Owen and his work at https://innerpropaganda.com/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 370 with Chantel Prat. One of the smartest, clearest, and funniest books on the brain, and why all of it matters for how you lead.
• Episodes 59 and 60 with Cathy Davidson. She explains how the brain science of attention changes everything.
• Episode 32 with Brad Kolar. A look at the direct implications of neuroscience for leadership.
• Owen's TED Talk, available here on YouTube.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Belief, Persuasion, Influence, Uncertainty, Change Management, Growth Mindset, Psychological Reactance, Buy-In, Artificial Intelligence, Resilience, Project Management

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: The Fantastical Ferret by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Funny by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes Cheryl Strauss Einhorn, founder and CEO of the decision sciences company Decisive and author of The Human Edge: Smarter Decisions in the Age of AI. Cheryl has spent decades helping people make better decisions, and her message here is a simple one: AI can gather, summarize, and compare, but it can't know what matters most unless we do the thinking first.

Andy and Cheryl talk about why "AI first" can quietly turn into AI only, and why a poor answer from AI is actually useful feedback about your own thinking. Cheryl explains why separating the what of a decision from the why can change the path forward, shares her vision of success question, and walks through how human bias and AI bias reinforce each other. You'll also hear a practical way to use AI personas to pressure test your thinking before a big stakeholder conversation, plus what parents can do to help kids strengthen their decision-making muscles instead of letting them atrophy.

If you're looking for practical ways to make smarter decisions in the age of AI, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "AI is about patterns, but we're about purpose."
• "We need to be the chief deciders in our own life."
• "We need to make sure that we actually have a way to push back and check the veracity of what it's giving us because it's a known liar."
• "And so the authenticity of human interaction is what actually builds trust, strengthens relationships, and really gives us a lot of the connections that are important to us in our home life and our work life."
• "You don't need to have a perfect prompt for AI."
• "AI is going to give you other people's answers."
• "'Knowledge is power' isn't as true now. It's what you are able to do with the knowledge, and it's why you want to collect the knowledge in the first place."
• "I almost never would accept AI's first answer."
• "We tend to have evolving hypotheses unless we really build an audit trail of our thinking."
• "So in the world of medicine, a fever tells you something is wrong, but it tells you nothing about what is wrong or where to look."
• "So first we know AI's a sycophant, right?"
• "If it's 99% accurate in its conclusion, but its underlying data is the wrong data set, you've got the wrong answer."
• "I would say the more that I've studied these cognitive biases, these mental shortcuts, the more I realize that we see the world through a dirty windshield."
• "Our brains are muscles, and just like we exercise to strengthen our muscles, if we don't exercise, they atrophy."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:00 Start of Interview
• 02:12 Growing Up Surrounded by Questions
• 04:30 What Leaders Should Watch Out for in "AI First"
• 07:07 When AI Confidently Makes Things Up
• 09:04 How AI First Turns into AI Only
• 09:20 Why Polished Doesn't Mean Authentic
• 11:59 A Prompting Problem or a Problem Definition Problem?
• 14:37 The Vision of Success Question
• 15:45 Why a Bad Answer Is Useful Feedback
• 19:06 Separating the What from the Why
• 20:32 Research: More Information Isn't Better Judgment
• 24:35 Progressive Prompting and Never Accepting the First Answer
• 25:18 Fabricated Quotes and the Trouble with Attribution
• 26:50 Documenting Assumptions and Building an Audit Trail
• 29:25 Committing to Your Own Thinking
• 32:29 How Human Bias and AI Bias Reinforce Each Other
• 34:55 Knowing About Biases Doesn't Make You Immune
• 36:51 Using AI Personas to Challenge Your Thinking
• 40:20 AI and Stakeholder Management
• 42:42 Helping Kids Become Better Decision-Makers
• 44:25 End of Interview
• 44:51 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 48:13 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Cheryl and her work at AREAMethod.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 460 with Joe Sutherland. It's an interesting look at the intersection of AI, data, and decision-making, and a great follow-up to this discussion.
• Episode 381 with Jim Loehr. One of Andy's favorite conversations about decision-making, from a remarkable figure in the human performance world.
• Episode 99 with Mike Roberto. A conversation about his book Why Great Leaders Don't Take Yes for an Answer, recorded long before ChatGPT showed up, and still insightful today.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

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Just go to https://5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Decision Making, Artificial Intelligence, Leadership, Project Management, Critical Thinking, Cognitive Bias, Problem Solving, Stakeholder Management, Judgment, Curiosity

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Gustavo Razzetti, culture consultant and author of Forward Talk. Gustavo makes a case that surprises a lot of leaders: fear is only part of why people stay quiet at work. The bigger driver is what he calls the pointlessness paradox, the belief that speaking up will not change anything.

Andy and Gustavo talk about conversational debt and how it compounds over time, why silence is so often mistaken for alignment, and the subtle signs that a team is drifting into avoidance, blame, or groupthink. Gustavo unpacks the difference between backward talk and forward talk, offering practical ways to turn an objection into a question that opens possibilities. You'll also hear about conversational agency, why the second person who speaks up matters more than the first, and how the CPR approach of courage, perspective, and responsibility plays out under pressure. Along the way, Andy shares stories from Alfred Sloan at GM and Alan Mulally at Ford, and Gustavo shares a memorable one about his son and a crashed car.

If you're looking for a more confident way to raise the issues your team keeps avoiding, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "However, fear only explains part of why people don't speak up. At some point, people feel nothing will change."
• "I like to say that agreement happens in the room, alignment happens after the meeting."
• "When you become the team leader, the number of people giving you feedback reduces, and when you become a senior executive, no one gives you feedback. Or if they do, it's not honest."
• "But what you want is people to challenge your perspective, to show you what you're missing, to see the things you're not seeing or maybe you stop seeing."
• "The problem is when we put being accepted, being respected over the outcome."
• "So forward talk is when can we frame that objection into a question."
• "So you're not being difficult. You're being realistic, but trying to find a solution, and you're giving the other person options."
• "Most people don't regret the difficult conversations they had. What we regret are the ones that we never had."
• "There's research that shows that the person who speaks up first is not the most important person. The second person who reciprocates is actually the one that creates the change. That moment when two people are talking about the same issue, it gives permission to the other people to jump in and also participate."
• "Staying silent also backfires, not only because it hurts the company, but if you're seeing the problem and you're staying silent, you become part of the problem."
• "It's not the absence of conflict that makes us a good team. It's that we can do it and we can work through it."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:05 Start of Interview
• 02:17 Growing Up in a Family of Nine in Argentina
• 05:18 Learning New Ways Beyond Your Family Culture
• 06:16 Why Fear Is Not the Whole Story
• 09:06 Why Waiting for Perfect Psychological Safety Backfires
• 10:37 Explaining the Pointlessness Paradox
• 11:37 Mistaking Silence for Alignment
• 13:35 Alfred Sloan and the Value of Disagreement
• 15:32 Subtle Signs You Are Drifting Into Groupthink
• 17:58 Backward Talk vs. Forward Talk
• 19:43 The Way to the Sun Is Through the Storm
• 21:05 How Organizations Quietly Reward Avoidance
• 23:08 When Speaking Up Gets You Labeled
• 25:09 Alan Mulaly, Ford, and the Power of the Second Voice
• 27:39 Alignment Debt, Belonging Debt, and Collaboration Debt
• 29:11 Why Conversational Debt Compounds
• 30:05 Surrendering Conversational Agency
• 32:40 Complaining, and the CPR Approach
• 36:31 You Get What You Tolerate
• 37:42 Applying These Ideas at Home
• 40:06 Conflict Is Fuel When You Channel It
• 41:07 End of Interview
• 41:37 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 45:10 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Gustavo and his work at GustavoRazzetti.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 284 with Peter Boghossian. He wrote a book about how to have impossible conversations, and it's full of ideas Andy still uses almost every week.
• Episode 148 with Daniel Shapiro. Dan is the author of Negotiating the Nonnegotiable, an insightful guide to dealing with difficult conversations and influence situations.
• Episode 371 with Amanda Ripley. Her book High Conflict offers practical guidance on navigating even the most challenging of conflicts in an empowering way.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Difficult Conversations, Conversational Debt, Psychological Safety, Groupthink, Team Culture, Leadership, Project Management, Conflict, Alignment, Accountability, Communication, Speaking Up

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes back his friend Stuart Taylor, a PMO leader and PMI PMO Awards judge, author of Becoming the Project Manager. Most of us didn't grow up dreaming of leading projects. We drifted into the role, and then discovered it's far less about plans and methodologies than it is about people, pressure, and learning to lead while you yourself still feel unsure.

Stuart shares the story behind the book, including the university project where he publicly chastised a teammate and the response from his dad that changed how he understood leadership. He and Andy dig into the real value and limits of PM certifications, why AI can help you communicate but can't replace the human part, the stakeholder questions younger Stuart was afraid to ask, what his mentor Wayne taught him about proximity and follow-through, and why a new sponsor has to be sold on your project rather than assumed into it. You'll also hear the 30-minute CV rule and the trouble it once caused him.

If you're looking for an honest, human look at what it actually takes to become the project manager, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "Well, now that you've reprimanded that person, you do realize you've got to go and pick them back up again?"
• "So going out into the world with this as my toolkit, and I thought it was a toolkit, but actually it turned out to be more like a life raft because I ended up clinging onto it without reasoning at an early point in my career."
• "There's an awful lot that falls between the processes, and that's what the early part of the book is really exploring."
• "I don't believe there's great value in repeatedly recycling the same learning over and over and over again. I think there's much greater value in taking that energy and going to learn something about your industry, the, actual industry that you're working in."
• "And also, I should add, you will have greater value to them by being there too, because you're the interesting change person in the room then, rather than one of another 200 change people walking around all talking about the same methodologies."
• "So be the person who is not avoiding hearing about challenges, but actively seeking them out, and cataloging them, and managing them."
• "Something else I've learned: they don't like you tiptoeing around them."
• "But if anybody's having to go into the office more frequently now, go and spend some of that time sitting with the people whose world you are changing."
• "But if your own leader, the person who's supposed to be championing you in the organization just doesn't get it, then you've got an impossible task on your hands."
• "When your sponsor goes or leaves and somebody else comes in and replaces them, don't just assume that, that because they've now been told they're gonna have to be the sponsor of your project, that they understand it and they can see the value in it."
• "Every project that you work on, the benefits, they are your accomplishments."
• "There is no point in being loyal to organizations. Be loyal to people."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:56 Start of Interview
• 02:15 Growing Up in Walsall and Learning Leadership from Dad
• 07:15 Drifting Into Project Management
• 09:06 When the Methodology Becomes a Life Raft
• 10:14 Why the Playbook That Worked Elsewhere Fails Here
• 11:49 Will AI Create PMs Who Look Prepared but Aren't?
• 13:37 Using AI to Understand a Difficult Stakeholder
• 15:31 The Value and Limits of PM Certifications
• 17:44 The Talent Triangle and Learning Your Industry
• 19:34 Stakeholders Are People, Not Org Charts
• 20:46 Curiosity and Asking Better Questions
• 21:54 Stop Tiptoeing: Busy Stakeholders Want the Point
• 22:55 What Wayne the Mentor Taught Stuart to Notice
• 25:47 Go Sit With Operations
• 28:19 The Power of Proximity
• 29:33 Sponsorship and Why PMOs Collapse
• 34:18 Earning Support and Managing Up
• 35:07 When a New Sponsor Takes Over
• 37:08 Keep Your CV 30 Minutes From Ready
• 39:39 When the 30-Minute Rule Got Stuart in Trouble
• 41:28 Project Lessons That Carried Into Family Life
• 43:23 End of Interview
• 43:58 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 47:08 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Stuart and his work at https://influentialpmo.com/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 474, which is an earlier and pretty candid conversation with Stuart about LinkedIn, careers, and AI.
• Episode 429 with Bill Dow. Bill and Andy talk about the signs that your PMO is going to fail, and you don't have to be in a Project Management Office to get value out of that discussion.
• Episode 441 with Michaela Flick. A discussion on the human side of project management that resonates with much of what you hear from Stuart.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, ;the podcast's AI person, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Project Management, Leadership, Stakeholder Management, Sponsorship, PMO, Mentoring, Career Development, Certifications, Artificial Intelligence, Communication, Influence, Professional Growth

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Brooklyn Nights by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Tom Rath, one of the most respected researchers on wellbeing and human potential, author of What's the Point? Turning Your Purpose Into a Superpower. Tom argues that we can be incredibly busy while slowly drifting away from what matters most, optimizing our schedules while our lives quietly leak away.

Andy and Tom explore why "follow your passion" can be harmful advice, how status seeking becomes career quicksand, and why our smartphones may be one of the greatest threats to purposeful living. They also discuss how many of us inherit ambitions from our parents that we never consciously chose, and how an honest awareness of mortality can sharpen our clarity, intentionality, and sense of purpose. Rather than treating purpose as one grand calling, Tom reframes it as something we create in small moments throughout the day.

If you're looking for a practical, and honestly a little uncomfortable, guide to leading and living with more purpose, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "Here's what I know with absolute certainty: you're wasting most of your day. Not because you're lazy, but because you've never asked the right question. You're so busy being busy that you've forgotten to ask why. You're optimizing your schedule while your life leaks away, hour by hour in meetings that don't matter and tasks that won't be remembered next week, let alone next year."
• "If you fail to do those things in a day and take that initiative and have those meaningful and purposeful conversations, and you put those off until tomorrow, tomorrow never really comes because we get into that responsive mode."
• "Passion by definition starts with you, and it's a little self-oriented, whereas I would argue purpose by definition has an other orientation to it, which is a much better idea for anchoring your energy in a day."
• "If you're not connecting back with the impact that it made on one person that day, it fails to kind of count in the way we motivate ourselves and think about our work on a daily basis."
• "I would argue that 90% of the purpose in life is built in those moments, not in some epiphany on a sunny day."
• "I would estimate that at least 80% of people, maybe 90%, make it all the way to the very end of their career in their life without ever seeing what they could have been best at in life."
• "Even as managers and leaders, if we don't take care of our own health and wellbeing first, we just have no shot at even being our best for other people that we manage."
• "There's always someone making twice as much as you or 10 times as much as you, and there's always somebody with more followers or more listeners or more readers or whatever it might be."
• "The eulogy virtues are about what am I doing today so I'll be a better dad, a better husband, a better friend, to help readers, to help people with the products I'm working on."
• "I would argue that 80% of people I see out in public today, out in the wild, are essentially working for their smartphone."
• "Their smartphone's running their life, and they're the ones salivating like one of Pavlov's dogs every time the darn thing blinks or buzzes or vibrates, right?"
• "Having your phone out sends an implicit message to the other person that the little black box on the table matters more than the other person, and it degrades the quality of the conversation."
• "The one thing we've all got in common is we have today to try and do some things that serve a purpose and help another person, and if you miss that opportunity, it's gone."
• "None of them, none of the headstones say anything about those kind of resume virtues that we were talking about."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:00 Start of Interview
• 02:08 Busy, Yet Drifting from What Matters
• 05:50 Rethinking the "One True Calling"
• 07:38 Why "Follow Your Passion" Can Backfire
• 09:26 From "What Do I Do?" to "Who Do I Help?"
• 11:20 How Our Parents' Paths Shape Us
• 12:11 When Admirable Influence Becomes a Limiting Script
• 15:01 Unlearning the "Always the Hardest Worker" Mindset
• 16:55 Are We Nudging Our Kids Into Our Dreams?
• 19:23 Status Seeking as Career Quicksand
• 22:02 Choosing Your Own Scoreboard
• 23:38 Smartphones and the Threat to Purpose
• 26:28 Making Technology Work for You
• 28:05 How Mortality Sharpens Purpose
• 30:52 What the Headstones Don't Say
• 32:33 Helping Kids Build Lives That Matter
• 35:21 End of Interview
• 35:48 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 40:20 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Tom and his new book at https://tomrath.org/whats-the-point.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 132 with Tom Rath. An earlier conversation with Tom, digging into his story and his research on wellbeing.
• Episode 140 with Tom Rath. Another previous discussion with Tom on wellness and living with strengths.
• Episode 31 with Adam Grant. Adam's first-ever podcast interview, where he shares insights on how to lead with meaning.
• Episode 261 with David Epstein. A conversation about his book Range, a helpful complement on career decisions for kids and for us.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Purpose, Leadership, Career Development, Passion, Wellbeing, Intentionality, Status, Comparison, Digital Distraction, Mortality, Parenting, Meaningful Work, Project Management

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Awakening by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Attia Qureshi, a coach and negotiation expert who is co-author, with John Richardson, of Never Settle. There's no shortage of great negotiation advice out there, yet in real conversations with real stakes and real emotions, that advice often fails to turn into action. This book tackles that gap between insight and habit.

Attia shares why emotions are not a distraction from negotiation but central to it, why getting clear about what you actually want is harder than it sounds, and how we leave value on the table without realizing it. You'll hear practical stories, from resetting a difficult relationship with a glass of lemonade to expanding the pie in a salary negotiation, plus small daily exercises for building resilience to rejection and learning to say no in a way that strengthens relationships rather than damaging them.

If you're looking for practical, doable ways to become a more confident negotiator and influencer, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "You can get more by caring about what the other person needs and building a strong relational foundation."
• "People are not born amazing negotiators. They develop that skill over time, just like people are not born confident."
• "You have to practice that small step out in the real world where the stakes are low and build that skill day after day, month after month."
• "You and I have probably already negotiated half a dozen times today."
• "When someone gives us something, we want to return the favor."
• "New studies now show that 90 to 95% of decision-making comes from unconscious emotional processing."
• "So many of us quit before we even start."
• "But if we do have a goal and we do prepare for the conversation, our likelihood of success is double."
• "A good negotiation doesn't always mean getting 'yes' at the end of it."
• "I always tell my students, people can almost always help you. It depends on if they want to or not."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:06 Start of Interview
• 02:17 Growing Up: Early Lessons in Conflict
• 07:10 Negotiation and Confidence Are Skills, Not Personality
• 08:04 Life Is Full of Everyday Negotiations
• 10:30 Why Negotiation Training Often Fails
• 12:30 Resetting a Difficult Relationship
• 17:20 Influence vs. Manipulation
• 22:33 Emotions, Fear, and Building Resilience
• 28:00 Using the Emotion Wheel
• 29:36 Getting Clear on What You Really Want
• 33:39 Expanding the Pie: Creating Value
• 40:50 The Power of Saying No
• 47:27 Teaching Kids to Negotiate
• 51:23 End of Interview
• 51:55 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 55:22 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Attia and her work at https://www.attiaqureshi.com/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 157 with Dr. Robert Cialdini. Known as the godfather of influence, his name came up several times during today's discussion, making this a great follow-up.
• Episode 412 with Scott Walker. A former Scotland Yard hostage negotiator who shares a lot of practical lessons about influence.
• Episode 385 with Vanessa Patrick. She wrote one of the best books on how to say no, a fitting companion to today's conversation.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Negotiation, Influence, Leadership, Project Management, Reciprocity, Emotional Intelligence, Resilience, Saying No, Stakeholder Management, Relationship Building, Value Creation, Confidence

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Quantum Sparks (Full Version) by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Fred Marshall, entrepreneur, founder of Quantum Learning, and author of Thrive: The Antidote to Future Shock. Fred introduces his Super Eight, eight interconnected areas of life that shape our ability to adapt, lead, and grow in a world of accelerating change.

Together, they explore why doing all the seemingly right things, the endless life hacks, can still leave you feeling off. Fred makes the case that attention is the single variable that governs almost everything, and that you can ignore almost all of the change coming at you and still thrive. You'll hear about managing your neural net, guarding your time with two 90-minute focus blocks, clearing the open loops that clog your thinking, and choosing the relationships and ecosystems that lift you up. Fred also walks through PANDA, a simple five-step method inspired by a panda that helps you stop a mental spiral and regain focus.

If you're looking for a practical, hopeful way to lead through an age of AI and constant change, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "You can ignore almost all of it."
• "So everything, everything you look at, every book you read, every text you read, everything you do is shaping your neural net."
• "If you look at that rock, you're gonna hit that rock."
• "Two 90-minute blocks a day is my new normal."
• "If you want time to go fast, turn on your computer, open your iPad, or look at your phone."
• "An open loop is something that needs to get done, that's not done yet, that's still taking up space in your head."
• "The worst thing is to think of something when you can't act on it."
• "The people you surround yourself with have an enormous impact on your life and how you think and how everything unfolds, and it's probably the most important choice you make is who you hang out with."
• "If you develop relationships with people in a growing ecosystem, you're gonna have a great career, you're gonna have a great life."
• "I want to prepare people so that it's, it's more of surfing a big wave rather than getting overwhelmed by a tsunami."
• "And I think if you're in your head and you're spiraling, getting out of your head and into action is how you really close the loop."
• "But if you can just stop for a second and give that person your full attention, even if it's just for a minute, it's so powerful."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:47 Start of Interview
• 02:00 Getting to Know Fred
• 04:29 What Most People Get Wrong About Change
• 06:29 Designing Your Life
• 08:03 The Life Hack Paradox
• 08:34 Attention: The Single Variable
• 10:20 The Super Eight and the Neural Net
• 13:00 Guarding Your Time: Fred 3.0
• 15:38 Take Care of Your Cells
• 16:09 Rethinking Sleep and Open Loops
• 17:46 Minimum Viable Exercise
• 21:23 The PANDA Method
• 26:22 Designing Your Relationships
• 28:32 Riding Growing Ecosystems
• 31:00 Building Systems for the Future
• 34:12 Applying It at Home
• 36:48 End of Interview
• 37:19 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 40:32 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Fred and his work at https://thrivefutureyou.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 437 with Nada Sanders. A conversation about future-prepping your career in the age of AI.
• Episode 382 with Hal Hershfield. Ideas from his book Your Future Self that remain completely relevant to our times today.
• Episode 313 with futurist Brian David Johnson. A discussion that changed how Andy thinks about trying to predict the future.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Artificial Intelligence, Change Management, Leadership, Attention, Focus, Productivity, Resilience, Relationships, Systems Thinking, Future of Work

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy sits down with Cornelia Choe, leadership advisor and founder of global CEO peer groups, author of The Panoramic Leader: How Great Leaders See Differently, co-authored with Marshall Goldsmith. Cornelia's core idea is that the "mental maps" we form early in life quietly shape how we lead today, and that our decisions are only as good as the world we're actually able to see.

Andy and Cornelia explore why so many new executives fail within their first 18 months, what she calls a visibility problem rather than an execution problem. They dig into practical tools: microtranslations for sharing ideas others can absorb, optimistic fear that lets us move forward without ignoring real risk, and the balcony-and-dance-floor balance of perspective and proximity. Cornelia also shares how getting up close to stakeholders, and even to her own kids, opens up options we couldn't see before.

If you're looking for practical ways to see more clearly and make better decisions in an uncertain world, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "And the truth is, sometimes the problem is not that we lack data, it's that we're not seeing broadly enough."
• "And if you truly believe something, stick with it, keep it on your map, and have the courage to go through with it."
• "But the problem is it's no longer enough to be right in today's world, and having an incomplete picture is just as dangerous as getting it wrong."
• "Optimistic fear is the ability to keep the risks and the danger in mind, yet to still go forward and to use our fear to fuel our momentum going forward."
• "We don't need to have everything solved, but just getting up close can reward us with a lot of options."
• "I mean, in some ways you could argue that our brain's autopilot is not a bug, it's a feature."
• "You don't have to accept everything you hear or everything your stakeholders tell you, but we do need to think about it and, in a thoughtful way, choose to accept it or not."
• "And in a world that's constantly changing, this is going to be an even more crucial skill because your decisions are only as good as the world you see, and the most successful leaders learn to see more in today's world."
• "It's just a good reminder to me that a smart, well-intentioned person can see situations quite differently."
• "Our identity is created by the people around us, the people who share their perspectives with, and the perspectives that we allow to become part of our mental maps."
• "I heard someone once say that we're all driven by just a few lines of code that run in the background, and as a former software developer, I can relate to that."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:48 Start of Interview
• 02:00 How Early Life Experiences Shape Our Maps
• 07:50 Why New Executives Fail in the First 18 Months
• 12:20 Microtranslations
• 16:01 Optimistic Fear vs. Pessimistic Fear
• 21:53 Keeping Curiosity Alive and Getting Off Autopilot
• 25:59 How We React When Our Map Is Challenged
• 29:25 The Balcony and the Dance Floor
• 34:41 How Our Circles Shape and Narrow Our Maps
• 38:33 Panoramic Leadership at Home
• 41:20 End of Interview
• 41:57 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 45:00 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Cornelia and her work at https://substack.com/@corneliachoe.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 489 with Marty Dubin. It's a book about blind spots and how they can easily derail us, an excellent complement to this discussion.
• Episode 318 with John Stepper. He's the author of Working Out Loud, and his approach to developing people has a lot of similarities to the leader circles that Cornelia runs.
• Episode 54 with Roger L. Martin. Roger is often in the top 10 of the Thinkers50, and we talk about how you can hold opposing ideas at the same time, very aligned with this book.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Pass the PMP Exam

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to https://5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Decision-Making, Mental Models, Stakeholder Engagement, Perspective, Curiosity, Self-Awareness, Change, Psychological Safety, Executive Effectiveness, Project Management

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Brooklyn Nights by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes back Marcus Buckingham, bestselling author and researcher, to discuss his new book, Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business. For 25 years, Marcus studied the most productive teams, loyal customers, and effective leaders in the world, and the word that kept appearing in his data was one he kept changing: love.

Andy and Marcus explore what love actually means in a business context, including how leaders are really experience makers whether they know it or not. You will hear the remarkable story of Josh D'Amaro, the CEO of Disney, and what his leadership reveals about designing love into a team's daily experience. Marcus unpacks the five feelings that lead people to say they love working for a leader, starting with something counterintuitive: control. The conversation also covers tough love, AI's limits as an experience maker, and how these principles can transform how we lead our families too.

If you're looking for a fresh, evidence-based look at what drives sustained high performance, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "I kept hearing that word (love) and shame on me, but I did keep changing it because I felt like it was a careless exaggeration of the word like or something."
• "Don't keep changing the word (love). The word's the word. The question really should be why and how do we replicate it?"
• "You're paid to change behavior. That's all you're paid to do. You're not paid to run a project. You're paid to change behavior as a leader."
• "When you send an email, it's not an email. It's an experience for the person on the other end. When you call that team meeting, it's not a team meeting. It's an experience."
• "You join a company and then you quit your boss."
• "Undesigned experiences lead to unpredictable outcomes."
• "It's cowardly, not loving. It's cowardly to leave them in that job."
• "I am for you. I am for you. That doesn't always mean that I am going to tell you what you wanna hear. It means I want you to flourish."
• "Loving's an ingredient, right? Loving isn't, 'Be nicer.' Loving's like, 'What are you trying to do for me?'"
• "The beginning of love is rules. The beginning of love is clarity."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:48 Start of Interview
• 01:57 Why Marcus Spent Decades Avoiding the Word "Love"
• 05:47 Misconceptions About Love in Business
• 11:29 Inside the "Josh Effect"
• 18:02 What Great Leaders Don't Do
• 22:13 Local Leadership and Variation in Team Experience
• 27:54 When Senior Leaders Couldn't Say the Word
• 31:04 Applying the "Is This Loving or Unloving?" Lens
• 37:43 Tough Love and Difficult Performance Conversations
• 46:20 Practical Takeaways: The Five Feelings of Love
• 50:25 AI and the Role of Love in Leadership
• 56:34 Designing Love Into Parenting and Family
• 1:01:26 End of Interview
• 1:01:57 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 1:05:03 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Marcus and his work at https://www.buckinghaminstitute.com/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 252, which is our earlier interview with Marcus Buckingham. That book still impacts how Andy leads years after having Marcus on the first time.
• Episode 332 with Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel. A discussion about keeping your teams engaged and connected, even if they're not co-located.
• Episode 324 with Jim Harter. Jim is the Chief Scientist at Gallup and they have an insightful discussion about building resilient and thriving teams.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Pass the PMP Exam

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to https://5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Love in Business, Team Culture, Employee Engagement, Customer Experience, Project Management, AI, Artificial Intelligence, Parenting, Organizational Culture, Experience Design

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes back Steve Kahle, entrepreneur, executive, and fractional CIO, author of Leadership Recall: Harness Insights. Accelerate Innovation. LEAD WITH AUTHORITY. Steve first joined the podcast in episode 184 to discuss email overload. This time, the conversation turns to a challenge every leader faces: the forgetting curve. Research suggests we forget up to 83% of what we learn within a week, and Steve argues this is not just a learning problem, it's a leadership problem.

Steve shares his CCR framework (Capture, Catalog, and Recall), along with practical tools such as the Anki flashcard app and the Email Me voice-note app, to build what he calls a learning operating system. The discussion covers how to design a recall fitness practice in as little as three minutes a day and how removing friction at every step keeps the system sustainable.

If you're looking for a practical system to stop letting great insights slip away and start leading with more authority, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "I think God put in my heart to be a relentless optimizer. I like to see things work and work well."
• "When you really zoom out in life, those who are really successful have figured out what are the frameworks, what are the methodologies that work, and they simply apply those."
• "Our subconscious mind can handle about 11 million bits of data per second, but about 40 bits conscious mind."
• "I went all in. Christ totally transformed my heart, and I'm realizing that scripture memory is a superpower."
• "Time swiftly washes away the obvious."
• "Learning really is a privilege, and we need to be able to find time that works with our daily rhythms."
• "Three minutes a day is really all you need to be able to see tremendous traction on being able to recall things that matter"
• "Instead of 'I'm bad at remembering names,' you could, do a reframe like, 'Hey, I'm getting better at remembering people's names.'"

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:48 Start of Interview
• 02:06 Early Experiences and the Instinct to Remember
• 04:08 Is Memory a Natural Gift or a Trainable Skill?
• 05:19 Forgetting as a Feature, Not Just a Bug
• 07:10 The Leadership Cost of Forgetting
• 09:10 Shifting the Bottleneck from Input to Retention
• 12:02 The Five-Hour Rule and Three Learning Archetypes
• 14:19 The CCR Framework in Practice: Capture, Catalog, and Recall
• 19:50 Removing Friction from Your Learning System
• 23:23 Inside Anki: Cloze Deletions and Building Cards
• 26:10 Organizing Your Recall Decks
• 27:30 Real-World Results: When Readers Apply the System
• 28:56 Building Recall Habits in Your Kids
• 32:50 How to Get the Book
• 34:01 End of Interview
• 34:17 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 37:46 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Steve and his work at https://www.leadershiprecall.com/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 184 with Steve Kahle. It's our previous conversation about keeping your head above water when drowning in email and commitments. Definitely recommend checking it out.
• Episode 411 with Laura Mae Martin. She's the head of productivity at Google and shares ideas that I still use to this day.
• Episode 376 with Nick Sonnenberg. It's a book about helping you and your team stop drowning in all the information and commitments at work.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Pass the PMP Exam

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to https://5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Memory, Learning, Productivity, Knowledge Management, Recall, Spaced Repetition, Personal Development, Continuous Learning, Networking, Project Management

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes Dr. John La Puma, a board-certified internal medicine physician, professionally trained chef, regenerative organic farmer, and two-time New York Times bestselling author of The Indoor Epidemic.

Did you know most of us spend about 93% of our lives indoors? Dr. John makes the case, backed by more than 2,200 studies, that where we spend our time may matter just as much as the soft skills and productivity systems we so often focus on. In this conversation, Andy and Dr. John dig into what he calls digital obesity and analog wellness, the science of morning sunlight and circadian rhythm, why looking at the horizon for just one minute per hour can improve focus and eye health, and what forest bathing actually does to your immune system. They also explore loneliness as a health crisis, the social dimension of outdoor time, and practical ways to build a 17-minute daily nature habit that doesn't require moving to Santa Barbara.

If you're looking for science-backed ways to boost your energy, focus, and long-term wellbeing, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "Digital obesity is when you consume more pixels than you can metabolize."
• "What people don't understand about this is that it's not a character flaw, that it's a biological mismatch."
• "People don't appreciate that nature is actually social, and that social part is good for you."
• "And loneliness is what? 15 cigarettes a day in mortality."
• "Nature works through your senses. You touch, you listen, you see, you smell, you taste."
• "You have a 56% higher function and number of natural killer cells because you are in the company of trees that are making these chemicals, alpha-pinene, D-limonene in citrus trees, many other trees, that improve your ability to kill tumor cells and kill virus infected cells."
• "But immersion in the forest means that you're immersing your senses in it, and the forest is, is the therapist, and the walk is the therapy."
• "Rest is actually self-preservation and capital investment."
• "Often you can upgrade the thinking in a room just by opening a window."
• "But you don't need a forest, and you don't need a park even. You just need a sky view."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:56 Start of Interview
• 02:06 Background: Origins of the Indoor Epidemic
• 07:03 Digital Obesity and Analog Wellness
• 10:33 Dr. John's Morning Outdoor Routine
• 13:21 The Benefits of Looking at the Horizon
• 17:22 Experiencing Vastness and Awe
• 22:47 Forest Bathing: More Than Just a Walk
• 24:32 Walking Habits and Nature Recalibration
• 26:52 Loneliness and Outdoor Social Connection
• 30:04 Practical Tips for Parents
• 32:03 End of Interview
• 32:39 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 35:15 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Dr. John and his work at drjohnlapuma.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 461 with Dr. Patricia Grabarek. We talk about why our typical approaches to wellness are missing the mark.
• Episode 421 with Dr. Bijoy John. He's a practicing sleep doctor and I think you'll find some practical ideas from our discussion.
• Episode 200 with Jeffrey Pfeffer. He's the author of a book entitled Dying for a Paycheck and I think you'll find his insights challenging enough to look at work differently.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Level Up Your AI Skills

Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future.

Just go to https://ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

Pass the PMP Exam

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to https://5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

Join Us for LEAD52

I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at https://GetLEAD52.com. Thanks!

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Nature, Digital Obesity, Analog Wellness, Productivity, Loneliness, Forest Bathing, Morning Sunlight, Wellbeing, Leadership, Sleep

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: On Point by Steven OBrien License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Summary

In this episode, Andy talks with Stephen Shapiro, innovation expert and author of You're Not Playing With a Full Deck: Why the People Who Drive You Crazy Are Your Unfair Advantage. Stephen's journey starts with a costly failure: a $30 million innovation project at Accenture that fell apart, not from a lack of talent, but because everyone on the team thought the same way.

Out of that failure came a framework built around a familiar metaphor: a deck of cards. Stephen introduces four distinct personality styles tied to the four suits and explains why teams missing certain suits are setting themselves up to struggle, even when everyone is smart and capable. In this conversation, you'll hear why unanimous agreement is actually a warning sign, how strengths can quietly sabotage performance when overplayed, and why the people who drive you crazy may be exactly who your team needs. Andy and Stephen also explore what the rise of AI means for the uniquely human qualities that only certain suits can provide.

If you're looking for a fresh, practical framework to build stronger teams and unlock better results, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "We were smart people. We had smart people on the team, and we somehow failed miserably."
• "I realized I was the problem. And it wasn't just me, it was the way we constructed the team."
• "Anytime you have everybody agreeing, that's a warning sign."
• "I actually think the bigger enemy of innovation is, 'Wow, this is a great idea!' because then what ends up happening is we believe it's a great idea."
• "It's less of a personality test and more of an opportunity to just stimulate some conversation that typically doesn't happen inside of organizations."
• "Left to their own devices, diverse teams perform terribly."
• "So it's not just diversity, it's diversity plus appreciation."
• "I try to make it very clear to AI: don't agree with me!"
• "Part of this is who are we really versus who did we become?"
• "There's a difference between a strength and a strong suit. A strength means you're good at it. A strong suit means you're good at it and it energizes you because it's who you are at your core."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:25 Start of Interview
• 01:37 When Teaming Started Going Wrong
• 02:52 Recognizing the Real Root Cause
• 03:38 Choosing Your Team Members
• 04:45 Similarity vs. Genuine Trust
• 06:00 A Real-World Team Turnaround
• 07:51 Overcoming Resistance to Difference
• 09:04 The Origin of the Card-Based Framework
• 10:47 When Strengths Become Liabilities
• 13:10 Warning Signs of Strengths Gone Wild
• 16:03 Meeting Personalities and How to Balance Them
• 22:00 How AI Changes the Human Equation on Teams
• 23:45 Which Personality Suits Are Hardest for AI to Replace
• 24:53 How Stephen Uses AI in His Own Work
• 26:18 Applying the Framework Outside of Work
• 29:42 End of Interview
• 30:20 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 33:36 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Stephen and his work at https://stephenshapiro.com/fulldeck/.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 286 with Ruth Pearce. Ruth wrote a book about the power of character strengths, and she definitely comes at it through the lens of project managers. Check out episode 286 to learn more.
• Episode 283 with Tom Rath. Tom is the StrengthsFinder guy and it's an engaging discussion that goes beyond personality to what he thinks is the most important question you need to be asking.
• Episode 489 with Martin Dubin. It's an intriguing discussion about blind spots that, if you haven't already listened to, I highly recommend.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit https://PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Team Building, Leadership, Cognitive Diversity, Collaboration, Innovation, Project Management, Meeting Effectiveness, Personality Frameworks, AI, Human Potential, Self-Awareness, Strengths, Organizational Culture

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Awakening by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license