Presentation Thinking

Like all the great stories of our time, Presentation Thinking must also have an ending.

Well, at least of this first "season."

Almost four years and 223 episodes ago, Mikey and Molly set out to become Presentation Thinking experts. We arrive at our “final” episode of this first chapter to reflect on what we’ve learned, how we’ll put it to use and, of course, what that means for you—our fellow Presentation Thinkers.

Working at world-renowned presentation design agency, GhostRanch Communications, we’d long pondered at the intersection of presentations, storytelling, design and every art and media form in between.

What followed was a study of TED Talks, famous speeches, Greek epics, psychology, and sometimes music videos. Our genius guests ranged from award-winning writers, story scientists, NYT illustrators and, yeah—a freakin’ magician!

From B2B marketing to ancient songs, story strategy, the frameworks, and tools we’ve learned show up everywhere.

Why is it worth learning about? We won’t gatekeep the answer: we are better communicators. And you can be too with a little “Presentation Thinking.”

Onwards, to the next chapter...

This is an episode for: anyone that’s ever wondered how to start (and end) something.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Our most-listened to episode of all time

• #79 - TED Talkin’: Amy Cuddy’s “Power Poses” and the impact of body language

Where to find Mikey and follow Story Camp?

•

LinkedIn - Mikey’s writing killer articles!

•

Story Camp

Where to find Molly:

•

LinkedIn

•

Landing page, waddup!!

Our team behind the curtain:

Editors

•

John Harton

•

Will Kommor

Illustrator

•

NoNo Flores

The final walkout songs:

•

Molly’s personal pick: The Story - Brandi Carlile

•

Mikey’s: Come Sail Away - Styx

Professional keynote speaker, author, and tequila enthusiast Jay Baer joins Mikey to talk about his non-traditional path into public speaking and what he’s learned about storytelling along the way.

From MCing high school talent shows to helping people with their presentations, Jay was no stranger to holding a mic but it wasn’t until later in his career that he started giving talks professionally (and getting paid).

Jay emphasizes the power of getting to know your audience and how he workshops material through a presentation until it’s fully resonating—strategies which helped him write his bestselling book(s).

His latest adventure seats Jay as the Co-founder and Editor of The Tequila Report, an online education resource for tequila consumers and brands. In Jay’s words, “they’re more connected than you think.”

This is an episode for: current and aspiring public speakers alike!

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Find more of Jay’s work!

•

http://jaybaer.com

•

On LinkedIn

•

The Tequila Report

Speakers Jay looks up to?

•
• Andrew Davis
•
• Mark Scharenbroich
• Sally Hogshead

Jay’s walkout song?
“Each presentation has a different walkout song based on the content of that talk.”

When it comes to messaging, every marketer is familiar with the following concepts: alignment, adoption, and performance.

But just how well your messaging gets adopted and how well it's performing with your audience is tricky to measure. Those are the questions that Austin Webb is after as a Co-Founder of http://troupe.ai.

A “messaging attribution and success engine,” Troupe seeks to “know the ROI of your story” by quantifying go-to-market messaging for the most clarity and success.

Austin joins Mikey on the pod to chat about what’s changed in our approaches to messaging, customer touchpoints, the future of messaging guides, and his new eBook, Closing the B2B Messaging ROI Gap.

This is an episode for: strategists, product marketers, and the entire GTM team.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Need help with GTM messaging?

•

Check out http://troupe.ai

•

Follow Austin on LinkedIn

•

Check out the eBook! Closing the B2B Messaging ROI Gap

Sales deck pet peeve?

•

“Sales decks that get changed in local environments by one rep…a symptom of lack of adoption!”

Book recco?

•

Simplify: Do 50% More with 50% Less by Jim VandHei, Mike Allen, & Roy Schwartz

What’s Austin’s walkout song?
How Do You Like Me Now - The Heavy

We might say that Kara Zeiberg is a tour de force…of giving historical walking tours on Boston’s Freedom Trail!

Have you ever considered how much world-building goes into a walking tour? Facilitating a group of wayward tourists through bustling Boston streets already presents tricky logistics. Presenting along the way, telling true and engaging stories—all while IN CHARACTER dang near deserves a presentation award!

Seasoned tour guide Kara Zeiberg joins the pod to discuss how she fell into such a niche career and how it’s sharpened her storytelling and presentation skills in ways most B2B folks never have to consider.

From underdog anecdotes from our country’s unsung heroes to iconic stops along Boston’s Freedom Trail, Kara has a story for everything—and some fabulous world-building advice as her colonial character, “Thankful Rice.”

This is an episode for: the theater kids, people building immersive experiences, and anyone that has to practice presenting in tricky situations.

What's in the Spice Cabinet?

Where to find Kara (and book a tour!)

•

The Freedom Trail

Boston reccos?

•

Beantown Pub - bite downtown

•

The Green Dragon - drinks!

•

Cheers (formerly Bull and Finch) - the Cheers bar

A few of Kara’s fave historical icons…

•

Phillis Wheatley

•

Elizabeth Arden

Walkout song?

•

Ragdoll - Aerosmith

Why does Kara think people remember information so much better through story?

•

People are always looking for what brings you from point A to point B, you know, something that drives that line through…Absolutely everything should have a narrative so that people can follow it through because that's what people are looking for.

As a co-host of The Presentation Podcast, one of the original inspirations for starting our own pod, Nolan Haims is like a “Founding Father” to us.

The Microsoft PowerPoint expert, data storyteller, and seasoned coach joins Mikey for a conversation around how to communicate as much as possible within short time windows and shrinking attention spans.

With 10+ years’ coaching experience (and a former career as a magician!!), Nolan employs fantastic exercises to teach memorable data visualization lessons. From his “one second chart” to studying the original Casa Blanca movie poster to simply emphasizing that people don’t take away enough in their slides (get friendly with that delete button!).

Whether you’re struggling to edit a deck or a graphic designer trying to maintain their edge, Nolan wants to help you guide your audience.

This is an episode for: graphic designers, anyone working through a deck, and the data viz nerds.

What's in the Spice Cabinet?

Where to find more of Nolan:

•

Nolan Haims Creative

•

The Presentation Podcast

PowerPoint Pet Peeve?

•

“Too much content. Slides that aren’t glance-able. And slides that draw your audience’s attention away from you.”

Favorite speaker?

•

Steve Jobs - “My favorite of his was the Macbook Air launch where he pulled the computer out of an envelope.”

Book reccos?

•

Good Charts - Scott Berinato

What’s Nolan’s walkout song?

•

You Make My Dreams - Hall & Oates

When Christopher Nolan released his latest film, “The Odyssey”, this summer, there was much discourse (too much?) about its historical accuracy, its casting, and how it held up against Homer’s beloved 3000 year-old epic.

For us here at Presentation Thinking AKA the “Storyteller’s Study Club,” we were thinking about another book—Christopher Booker’s The Seven Basic Plots—wherein Booker lays out 7 “shapes” for all stories. In one shape he dubs “The Quest,” Booker heavily relies on Homer’s The Odyssey as a reference point.

Mikey and Molly get into how Nolan’s film rendition of “The Odyssey” follows (and doesn’t) the shape of “The Quest” that Booker so thoroughly laid out in his study of storytelling.—and how it can make for one of the most memorable stories ever told.

We also apply what we know about film and visual storytelling to discuss Nolan’s mise-en-scene, dialogue choices, and terrible sound-mixing.

This is an episode for: story nerds, students of the Greek epics, and Nolan fans and foes alike.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

The trailer, because we can’t link it in IMAX:

•

via YouTube

Christopher Booker’s book we reference heavily:

•

The Seven Basic Plots

•

We discuss this story shape in further detail in Episode #33

Emily Wilson’s translation:

•

Here

•

Her scathing review of Nolan’s film, “An Uncomplicated Man”

For further reading (Substack recommendations vetted by Molly)

•

A great epics reading list

•

The different elements of horror in The Odyssey

•

“Christopher Nolan ruined Circe”

•

“How should an Odysseus be?”

Montana von Fliss is a master of distillation.

From identifying a singular persona (AKA the “one”) that your talk will reach to honing your “secret sentence”, Montana’s approaches have cemented her as an iconic communication coach, keynote speaker, and maker of a millions-viewed TED Talk.

In this episode, Montana joins Mikey to chat about how soft skills pay bills, the power of pretending there’s an audience in an empty Zoom room, and how “Imposter syndrome is just a misalignment with reality”.

We hear about how, in identifying her “one” person in the audience that could be moved by her TED Talk, she really got to the heart of what she was trying to say.

Now, who is your “one”?

This is an episode for: speakers and presenters of all levels.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Montana’s TED Talk has 44 million views (and counting!) Why not add to that number?

•

How to Be Confident (even if you’re not)

Follow more of Montana’s work:

•

http://montanavonfliss.com

•

LinkedIn

•

Her new YouTube channel!

Meet Montana at Story Camp!

•

Get your tickets for November 3-6, Boulder Colorado

You’re invited!!

WHO: You! Marketers! Comms leaders! C-suiters! Sales powerhouses! PMMs! Anyone feeling like an “accidental” speaker coach!

WHEN: November 3rd-6th, 2026

WHERE: Boulder, Colorado

If you’ve never heard about Story Camp, well, you’re going to.

Despite only being in its second annual year as a presentation skills conference, Story Camp is on track to sell out this year.

How??

Story Camp Founder Mikey Mioduski joins, er, his own podcast to discuss the secret sauce behind this retreat unlike any other. You’ll hear WHAT to expect at Story Camp 2026, WHO should come and benefit from it, and WHY he brought this thought bubble to life in the first place.

This is an episode for: people invested in their personal and professional storytelling skills AND anyone looking to use that leadership development budget.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

How to get your hands on Story Camp tix?

•

Get your whole team onboard here

Where you’ll be staying for camp vibes

•

The Colorado Chautauqua

The headliners who will be there

•

Will Storr

•

Montana Von Fliss

•

Benjamin Benichou

Still need more convincing?

•

Here’s 75 more reasons from Mikey

If you’ve ever felt transported to a different world or time period in a museum, that’s a sign of good exhibition design and curation working together.

After finding an article written by Exhibition Designer Alya James from NYC’s Guggenheim (shoutout Substack!), our Presentation Thinking caps really started lighting up.

From strategic placements for the eye to follow, to lighting and audio/visual components, presentation and exhibition mediums share many narrative-building elements in how something is meant to be experienced.

This is not to be confused with museum curation AKA the selection of pieces. Exhibition design tackles the how in which pieces are placed, lit and safeguarded so that the public may interact in a natural flow.

Museum exhibition designers leverage presentation just like we do slideware, experiential marketing, and more!

This is an episode for: experiential marketers, art nerds, & museum lovers (and haters! Let us change your mind).

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Read Alya James’ Substack piece that got me digging:

•

The Anatomy of an Exhibition

Exhibitions, museums, & art referenced

•

Maurice Sendak’s “Where the Wild Things Are”

•

ABBA Museum

•

Lofotr Viking Museum

•

Chicago Art Institute’s display of Georgia O’Keeffe’s “Sky Above Clouds”

•

Stedelijk Museum: Roy Lichtenstein (Amsterdam)

Another cool piece:

•
How to visit a museum

Last month, GhostRanch CEO Allie Wilson and Founder Mikey Mioduski spoke together at the Gartner Marketing Symposium/Xpo outside of Denver, Colorado—and had a blast!

A busy exhibition hall where the audience wore headphones to better hear their presentation (think silent disco vibes), this conference setting and co-presenting together made for their most unique experience in presenting thus far.

…Especially because their presentation stage was right in front of a restroom, ha!!

They join the pod to debrief and dissect their experience and how expectations won’t always match reality—in good, challenging and funny ways.

This is an episode for: speakers, marketers and anyone that attends annual conferences.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Learn more about the Gartner Marketing Symposium

•

(And see you there next year?)

Relevant reading

•

The Influential Mind - Tali Sharot

•

The Unpersuadables - Will Storr

Are you coming to Story Camp??

•

Tickets on sale now for November 3-6, 2026 in Boulder, Colorado!!

Many have written about the shape of stories, archetypes, what stories do to the brain. But none have connected all these puzzle pieces in such a coherent and useful way as Will Storr’s The Science of Storytelling(2021).

Will guides us section by section, understanding how character-driven stories are more memorable, why the brain tracks for changes constantly, flawed characters are most human and more.

For storytellers in both business and creative fields, Will guides every insight with science, interesting studies and universally recognizable examples (ie: Jaws, Frankenstein, The Odyssey).

If, in Will’s own words, “To accept story’s challenge and win is to be a hero”, Will becomes one for storytellers everywhere.

This is an episode for: storytelling and science nerds, anyone writing a book and members of our book club.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Get a copy for your own shelf:

•

The Science of Storytelling

Learn more about Will

•

Here

•

Check out more of his books! - We’ll be reading A Story Is a Deal next

Learn from Will IN PERSON at Story Camp this November!

• Registration and details here

Continuing our journey in analyzing every Steve Jobs keynote ever given, Mikey and Molly re-visit the talk that would change the way we consume music forever—the introduction of the iPod in 2001.

Steve utilizes a classic Problem and Solution strategy in showing the various ways which 2001 offered music listening experiences (remember flash drives!?) and which route Apple endeavored to improve upon. For each pain point (memory, portability, etc.), Apple develops a clear and stylish solution.

Most interestingly, he saves the reveal of the device itself until much later than he typically does with product launches.

As the first music listening device of its kind, Steve first compares it to a deck of cards—a universal size and feel most people can understand—before pulling the device out of his pocket.

The rest is music history.

This is an episode for: keynote speakers, C-suite presenters and Apple/tech nerds.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Watch Steve’s 2001 introduction of the iPod, and explore Steve’s other keynotes:

•

All About Steve Jobs

Other episodes where we’re talking about Steve’s presentation skills:

•

#197 - Damage control at Macworld Boston (1997)

•

#192 - Steve Jobs film (2015)

•

#187 - Steve introduces iMac (1998)

•

#72 - Steve Jobs’ Stanford Commencement Speech (2005)

Get your hands on some vintage iPods:

•

On eBay!

When you hear the phrase “timeless presenter”, you might think of MLK, Steve Jobs, Oprah... For us at Presentation Thinking, we’re adding Andrea Pacini to that list.

Andrea Pacini is the head of Ideas on Stage UK and a decorated presentation coach with a slew of cool awards.

Having already had a few epic conversations together on the pod, we were excited to hear all about Andrea’s latest book, Timeless Presenter.

This book is not a one-size-fits all framework, nor is it a recipe for success. It’s a bullet journal-like presentation of some of the most core principles in presenting.

From data viz examples that work to research-backed audience psychology to real-life anecdotes, Andrea has put together something truly—all together now—timeless.

This is an episode for: storytellers, presentation designers and speakers of all levels.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

A couple of ways to get your hands on Andrea’s book, Timeless Presenter: Principles for Making Your Ideas Impossible to Ignore:

•

Purchase here

•

Get a FREE copy here

Assess your presentation skills in less than 3 mins:

•

The Confident Presenter Scorecard

Want to take it a step deeper?

•

Sign up for Andrea's web class here

What’s next for Andrea Pacini?

•

“I’m thinking about a book for kids—but it has to do with communication. I’m thinking ‘empathy’...It’s just an idea for now.”

Recommended speakers to go with Timeless Presenter?

•

Andrea emphasizes that Science Thinkers make for great presenters like:

•

Neil deGrasse Tyson

•

Brian Cox

Andrea’s walkout song?

•

Don’t Stop Me Now - Queen

•

When I mention that’s the song he selected in previous episodes, Andrea says “What matters is not what’s new, it’s what lasts.”

Montana Von Fliss exudes confidence…even if she’s not actually feeling confident. How?

Like any good actress and executive speaker coach, she’s got a secret sauce—or, silent sentence—to share with us Presentation Thinkers.

In her 2025 TED Talk called How to Be Confident (even if you’re not), Montana runs through her tried and true tips for oozing confidence on any stage. Things like pausing for emphasis and employing the Superhero stance may sound like familiar wisdom, but Montana’s “Silent Sentence” is the piece tying all standard presentation advice together.

When utilized strategically, it’s the thing you don’t say out loud that can have the loudest impact. Understand your presentation purpose and craft your own Silent Sentence with Montana.

This is an episode for: strategic storytellers and presenters of any kind.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Watch Montana’s TED Talk for yourself

•

How to Be Confident (even if you’re not) 2025

Follow Montana for more of her work

•

http://montanavonfliss.com

•

On LinkedIn!

Sign up for Story Camp 2026

•

http://storycamp.com

Rick Altman has been around PowerPoint since its inception. As an early adapter of graphics and publishing software and later the founder of the Presentation Summit, Rick’s experience with presentations has amounted to an expert-level body of experience.

The latest installment comes with his new book, Crush Your Next Virtual Presentation: A Modern Guide for the Modern Communicator.Seeing a serious lack in the presentation advice space for virtual versions, which only grow each year, Rick has stepped up with an insanely useful guide.

There are visual examples at every turn, technical advice for ways in which to upgrade your camera, and breakdowns of the physicality (and psychology) of virtual spaces—all written with Rick’s witty wry voice, making the book anything but boring.

Zoom webinars and virtual conferences aren’t going away and Rick, as usual, finds himself thriving on the wave of adaptation.

This is an episode for: presenters of all kinds, but especially anyone that has to present virtually.

What's in the Spice Cabinet?

Get Rick’s book for yourself

• Crush Your Next Virtual Presentation: A Modern Guide for the Modern Communicator

Attend the virtual Presentation Summit:

•

Presentation Summit 2026: September 13th-16th

Where is Rick getting inspiration right now?

•

Project Hail Mary - Andy Weir

Follow Rick:

•

BetterPresenting.com -“That’s my front door”

•

On LinkedIn

Rick’s walkout song?

•

Midnight at the Oasis - Maria Muldaur

Angus Fletcher is the ultimate Presentation Thinker.

Currently the Professor of Story Science at Ohio State University’s “Project Narrative”, the world’s leading think-tank for the study of how stories work, Angus started out in neuroscience, realized the brain isn’t data-driven, got into the story science and walked away with a PhD in Literature from Yale. (Phew!) He worked in Hollywood, helped design AI and now writes books and teaches.

This varied background provides unique insights into niche perspectives such as the one provided in this 2025 TED Talk, Twist Your Fate: Overcoming Adversity with Your Story. Angus shares that a group of veterans were working through depression and PTSD and it wasn’t until trying journaling that there was a breakthrough.

It wasn’t necessarily the content of this veteran’s particular story, but the plot twists that allowed its author to realize what they were capable of. Angus dives into the science behind this story device and how it can help us in work and life—and, of course, presentations.

This is an episode for: speakers, writers and story nerds of all kinds.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Watch Angus’s TED Talk

•

Twist your fate: Overcoming Adversity with your story

Follow Angus’s work:

•

His website

We’re particularly obsessed with his FAQ page

While the biggest Oscar buzz is reserved for flashy celebs and viral moments, a category usually overshadowed by those little golden statues is “Best Animated Short Film.”

Animated shorts provide a masterclass in highly efficient storytelling, interesting visuals and proof that a film's runtime doesn't have to be over 2 hours to win an award (THERE, I said it!!).

Ranging from silly to heavy to wholesome, this year's nominees include incredible Wallace & Gromit-style stop-motion (The Girl Who Cried Pearls) and Domhnall Gleeson's sweet Irish voice narrating a classic 2D hand-drawn style (Retirement Plan).

Filmmaker and Designer Asha Alaji-Sharif joins Molly on this special podcast episode to dissect the storytelling strategies—both visual and structural—employed in these films and what we, as business-minded presentation enthusiasts, can learn from them.

This is an episode for: designers and visual strategists, animation fans and anyone that gets inspired by film.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

The five Oscar-nominated Animated Short Films from 2026

•

The Girl Who Cried Pearls

•

Retirement Plan

•

Forevergreen

•

Butterfly (Papillon)

•

The Three Sisters (We don’t believe this is anywhere online so we didn’t watch. If you have a link or know where to stream, please reach out!)

Where to follow Asha’s work:

•

On Instagram

•

At the Atlanta Film Festival - she is starring in 500 Seconds To Tell You

•

Her own film, The Four Noble Truths, just won the award for Best Social Impact Documentary at the Atlanta Documentary Film Festival

What type of presentation podcast would we be if we didn’t discuss the actual presentations that we gave??

We’ve been tracking Mikey’s Road to the TED Talk since the inception of this podcast—and a few weeks ago, he got one step closer.

Invited to speak at his Alma Mater, DePauw University in Indiana, Mikey infused today’s liberal arts pupils with a manifesto keynote in letting your creative pursuits fuel everything else in life.

Inspired by Nike’s tagline story and (of course) Steve Jobs’ quote that says “Creativity is just connecting things”, Mikey shares how he went about putting together this fresh talk, his implementation of Claude as a research partner, and how it all landed with the students in the room.

This is an episode for: emerging speakers and anyone putting together a new talk.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Follow more of Mikey’s writing

•

Via “The Dispatch” on LinkedIn

Join us at Story Camp!

•

November 3-6, 2026 in Boulder, CO

Mikey’s walkout song (for this particular talk)?

•

Steely Dan - My Old School

•

(Or anything Beastie Boys)

World’s funniest conversion copywriter Lianna Patch and founder of Punchline Copy joins Presentation Thinking (again!) to revisit our conversation from the early days of the podcast (Episode #39).

We get into what’s changed in the presenting world, what’s constant, and her latest talk called “Stage Presence in a Can.” We also discuss the ways AI is affecting both copywriting and presenting and how best to leverage it as a tool.

If you want to infuse your brand with a more authentic (and funny) voice and bring JOY to corporate culture, start with Lianna’s advice. Sonic signatures, dynamic voice, establishing rapport with the audience—Lianna has tons of real-life experience and really funny anecdotes.

This is an episode for: copywriters, presenters and comedy fans.

Find more of Lianna’s funny work

•

http://punchlinecopy.com

•

Follow her on LinkedIn

•

Listen to the first time Lianna joined us on Presentation Thinking: Episode #39

Recent comedy faves:

•

“Prodigal Daughter” - Taylor Tomlinson

Book and podcast reccos mentioned:

•

Death, Sex & Money (podcast)

•

Bad at Keeping Secrets (podcast)

•

David Nihill - Do you talk funny? (book)

Advice for nervous presenters?

•

“Everybody there wants to see you win.”

Lianna’s walkout song?

•

“Anything VULFPECK” - consistent with her answer in Episode #39! The Birdwatcher

“What can screenwriting teach us about presentations?”

That’s the question Mikey and Molly continue to answer in Part 2 of their Book Club style episodes on Blake Snyder's famous Save the Cat! Screenwriting book.

In this episode, they break down Snyder’s 15 beats of storytelling and equate each to a “Beat Sheet for Business Storytelling.” A “beat” can be interpreted as a slide or handful of slides that establishes an “emotional change” within a presentation, moving your narrative forward.

Snyder’s storyboarding advice in Chapter 6 and his “immutable laws of screenplay psychics” in Chapter 7 are also very useful for real world presentation applications.

This is an episode for: film nerds, writers, presenters and anyone working with slideware.

What’s in the Spice Cabinet?

Read Save the Cat! For yourself:

•

Get the book (onhttp://bookshop.org!)

Another screenwriting classic

•

Syd Field’s Screenplay: The Foundations of Screenwriting

Check out Blake Snyder’s “Beat Sheets”

•

Beat Sheet Analysis

Blake’s Walkout Song? (According to Mikey)

•

Beat It by Michael Jackson

Claim your spot for Story Camp 2026

•

November 3-6 in Boulder, CO