RIMScast

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Roger Spitz on a variety of ERM and futurist topics, including his career path and the thought leadership he provides today. They discuss unpredictability, uncertainty, and why the future is not clearly seen. They discuss the importance of agility and how improv prepares for it.

Roger shares his thoughts on how ERM practitioners can be ready for the unknown.

Listen for Roger's thoughts on antifragility, being anticipatory, and agility.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by Roger Spitz, Chair of The Disruptive Futures Institute, President of Techistential, and the opening keynote speaker for the RIMS ERM Conference 2026, which will be held November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio.

[:48] Before we get to our interview…

[:50] Webinars: On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics."

[:59] Origami Risk will return on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This session was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for that one, you are automatically registered for the new date in December.

[1:15] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On November 10th, we will host a session about the "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: an update on Federal Developments."

[1:31] On December 3rd, we've got "Third-Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Bottom Line." Find all webinars at https://www.rims.org/webinars.

[1:41] I've got a link on this episode's show notes to the virtual workshops for the RIMS-CRMP.

[1:47] Special announcement: On December 3rd and 4th, 2026, from 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., you can prepare for the RIMS-CRMP exam with the RIMS 2026 President, Manny Padilla, at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City.

[2:04] The exam application fee is included if you register for this prep course. Visit https://www.rims.org/Certification and the link on this episode's show notes.

[2:14] The Q3 Edition of RIMS Risk Management Magazine is now available at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. Check it out!

[2:21] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:39] On with the Show! The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Learn more and register at https://www.rims.org/ERM2026. Our guest today will be kicking things off at the conference.

[2:58] He is Roger Spitz, the Chair of The Disruptive Futures Institute and the President of Techistential. He joins us today to provide a preview of his keynote, "Black Swans and Golden Geese: Risks and Returns in the Era of Unpredictability." I'm stoked, and I want to get right to it!

[3:18] Interview: Roger Spitz, Welcome to RIMScast!

[3:44] Roger says he's probably the only futurist with a background in M&A. He started as a chartered accountant (ACA) in the UK and moved into investment banking. He was Global Head of M&A for BNP Paribas, advising boards, CEOs, and investors on acquisitions and divestments.

[4:19] Roger was based in London. In 2017, the CEO asked him to rebuild the M&A Tech practice in San Francisco. He promised himself when he came here that he would go down the rabbit hole of change.

[4:34] Roger did a lot of microcourses on complexity systems, foresight, even stand-up comedy, and all kinds of things, looking at change from different vantage points. He felt futures was an interesting umbrella for that.

[4:54] Roger felt that the way even the most sophisticated, well-paid business leaders think about the world as a linear, predictable, stable, controllable set of assumptions was not only wrong, but that the cost of relying on those assumptions would increase.

[5:12] Roger says, after a few years, he decided to leave investment banking and spend full-time thinking about strategic foresight. He wrote a book. He set up a practice, Disruptive Futures Institute. At the time, it was esoteric to think about unpredictability, but today he's pretty busy.

[5:47] Roger says that amongst the microcourses he took, one vantage point for understanding change was stand-up comedy, especially improv. He did several courses on improv to think about the surprise element and change from that perspective. It's how he got to where he is.

[6:43] Justin says he did stand-up as well. He understands the rush of it, but there is spontaneity to it. He didn't do improv as a class, but he did stand-up for a year in Manhattan. In stand-up, you learn a lot about yourself and what you can endure. It's just you and the audience.

[7:22] Roger says he learned about himself and his confidence. He also learned what features cause surprise, but also that with the right tools, mindset, and ways of seeing the world, there's nothing wrong with surprise and unpredictability. You can take it and run with it. It's "yes, and."

[7:48] Roger says if you don't have that toolkit or operating system, improv might feel a little bit uncomfortable or surprising. Roger took improv not only to learn about himself, but also to learn what toolkits are effective in these kinds of environments that are more prone to surprise.

[8:40] Roger says, once you have a certain way of seeing the world, or mindset, it's in you. You're not going to unsee it or no longer think of "yes, and," or other reflexes. It's intuitive. Some exposure to improv is a very useful tool.

[9:08] Justin mentions SNL UK. Roger says he is South African, the home of Trevor Noah, but spent more than 20 years in the UK.

[9:51] Justin mentions we will see Roger on November 19th, kicking things off for us in Columbus, Ohio, for the RIMS ERM Conference 2026. The keynote is titled "Black Swans and Golden Geese: Risks and Returns in the Era of Unpredictability."

[10:07] Justin asks: How should risk professionals rethink the traditional relationship between risk and return when organizations are operating in conditions of deep uncertainty?

[10:22] Roger mentions two aspects: One is how one thinks about deep uncertainty, and two is what that means.

[10:37] Roger starts with the foundations. The 100-year-old distinction between risk and uncertainty is helpful for environments which are relatively stable and predictable. You can get a sense of the probability of risk. Uncertainty is not as well understood.

[11:26] Roger says the World Uncertainty Index is through the roof since the 1900s. Uncertainty is conflated with other things and is not always clearly understood. Conventional uncertainty is that you know the possible outcomes; you're just not sure about the "probabilization."

[11:49] Roger continues: Who will win the elections? Will there be a recession? You know the question. There's an answer. It's pretty straightforward.

[12:01] In deep uncertainty, you don't know the potential outcomes. You don't know the probabilities. You can't put a hierarchy on them, or if you did, they wouldn't necessarily be in agreement. You're not taking into account how these possible outcomes might interact.

[12:27] Roger says you're not taking into account the next-order implications, nor is there agreement or alignment on how you might mitigate them or whether they even exist.

[12:39] What are the exact implications- not just geopolitical, but technology, geofinance, societal- if China becomes the number one in the world in a dominant way, which is very possible?

[12:54] What happens with longevity? What is longevity? Is it 200 years? No longer diseases? No longer aging? What happens if you work and live in space? What happens with singularity diversity if it happens? Once you put all that together, think about how they might interact.

[13:10] Roger says that's deeply uncertain. Therefore, we wrote a detailed paper with the Head of Foresight of AXA on the topic on Risk.Net. We're looking at something more akin to unpredictability.

[13:32] Roger says unpredictability is not the same as uncertainty. If you take uncertainty in an environment that is non-linear, emergent, with unknown unknowns, you need trial and error, playbooks, predict-and-act modeling; you don't have a known answer.

[14:05] That is very different from the predict-and-act frameworks and modeling that a lot of the risk and return industry relies on. Not only is unpredictability a key feature of that, but the outcomes can be disproportionate, both for risk and returns.

[14:31] Putting all that together, Roger says the most important thing is that you need to shift the mindset from a risk "probabilization" or return calculation to outcomes. What are the potential outcomes in terms of magnitude?

[14:48] How do we think about what can lead to either breakdown or breakthroughs? What are the features that might make these outcomes potentially very sizable and that might be breakdowns or breakthroughs?

[15:07] That's not the same as conventional predict-and-act modeling. It's not the same as scenario analysis, where you ask "what if something" and you have two edge cases.

[15:19] Roger says my thesis is that what we're talking about is a constant environment, not a few edge cases or exceptions you need to think about the "what if" for. You don't really know. It's a constant. It's systemic. And therefore, it's business as usual, as opposed to an edge case.

[15:40] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held in Columbus, Ohio on November 19th and 20th. Our guest today, Roger Spitz, is the keynote. We can't wait to see you there!

[15:55] Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026 to register.

[15:59] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd.

[16:18] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes.

[16:31] Let's Return to Our Interview with ERM Conference 2026 Keynote Roger Spitz!

[16:39] Justin asks about Roger's Triple-A Framework: Anti-fragile, Anticipatory, and Agility.

[17:00] Roger says we're in environments that are predominantly unpredictable, where rare is no longer rare and unprecedented is happening too often. We're saying it's nonlinear, so there can be extreme or very significant outcomes, both positive and negative. It's not necessarily a risk.

[17:28] Roger says that predict-and-act has limitations. What do you do about it?

[17:34] Roger says it means, first of all, you don't want to rely too much on your predictive powers, what comes out of the model. It's unpredictable. You need environments that are very resilient.

[18:15] The first A, Antifragility, borrowed from Nassim Nicholas Taleb, is a form of resilience. Resilience is like a rubber band: you can punch it around; it doesn't change shape; it doesn't break, but it hasn't necessarily changed or improved.

[18:33] Antifragility is resilience-plus. Not only will it be resilient and robust, but it actually benefits from shocks. Have foundations that are anti-fragile, or resilience-plus.

[18:51] The second A of Triple-A is to be Anticipatory. That doesn't mean in a predictive way, but more in a scenario way. Think: What if this continued? What are the next-order implications? How are things that may seem unrelated connected?

[19:09] Roger says, let's take interest rates. Yellen was the first to admit, of the Central Banks, everybody was in the same boat. She basically didn't realize that interest rates would be the highest they had been for half a century, thought they could control it, and they couldn't.

[19:21] It's the cost of relying upon an assumption. They weren't anticipatory. They relied on what came out of the model. The problem is when you make assumptions, to the exclusion of anything else.

[19:44] Being anticipatory is not trying to make a bet on a specific outcome. It's saying we need different scenarios and possibilities to build our muscle for managing surprise, not because we believe that one of those scenarios will materialize.

[20:02] Continuing with interest rates as an analogy, you see that the Fed from Cleveland, a few years ago, after realizing how impossible it is to predict these things, started thinking more in terms of scenarios than relying on specific outcomes.

[20:21] Kevin Warsh, the current Fed Chairman, is reluctant to give the markets an outlook.

[20:36] This idea of being anticipatory is moving away from prediction but still thinking of what may arise next. What different possibilities might emerge, and how best to prepare for them?

[20:49] You have an anti-fragile foundation, you're being anticipatory, and then you need to live in the here and now, every day, where surprises happen. The decision windows are closing. Things happen all the time. They can happen fast.

[21:08] The third A is Agility: the agility to emerge with decisions in the here and now, without necessarily having a playbook, or right answer, or something that's knowable.

[21:20] Justin comments that hearkens back to the improv discussed earlier. Roger agrees 100%.

[21:30] Roger says a lot of people are familiar with elements of these three "A"s. Whatever you call them, it's the fundamentals. They treat them as "either-or"s.

[21:43] Even in the Futures and Foresight field, you have people who say scenarios are useless; you don't know the future; it's too far away. Everything is emergent. Or people say you rely on scenarios, but you live in the here-and-now, and there's a disconnect.

[21:57] Roger says the Triple-A Framework is important because it is the reflexes of improv, and you need that agility. It's not to the exclusion of thinking about the longer term and what might happen in the different scenarios because you're preparing a broader subset of eventualities.

[22:21] When emergencies happen for which you need that improv toolkit, that subset is smaller because you have a resilient foundation and you've thought about a few things beforehand that may happen.

[22:32] Justin says, "Some of our Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council members have written or spoken on scenario planning and strategic risk management in this context. It sounds like your ideas are going to resonate with them. And they may agree or disagree."

[22:51] Justin says that part remains to be seen until November 19th at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026. You're bringing concepts that they're already familiar with to the table and presenting them with a twist, which I think will be fascinating to hear.

[23:05] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk Management™, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[23:24] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[23:39] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[23:57] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[23:33] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS ERM Conference 2026 Keynote Roger Spitz!

[24:34] Justin asks about Artificial Intelligence, and where Roger sees AI improving risk management. Roger says it's important to know: where does AI sit in the value chain of decision-making? Where can it be helpful or not helpful?

[25:03] Roger says AI is very good at pattern recognition at scale. It's probabilistic. It's everything we know. Linear environments, with known unknowns, where you can rely on experts and where there's a range of answers, are predictable environments that are AI's sweet spot.

[25:54] Roger says those environments are what we call complicated.

[26:02] Roger says a lot of environments are complex in that they are nonlinear, asymmetric, there may not be a range of right answers at that time, they are emergent, and they are trial and error.

[26:21] Complicated environments are like a puzzle. The more pieces you have to the puzzle, you know the answer. You look at the cover, done. You have your one-trillion-piece puzzle for your AI.

[26:30] Complex environments are like a mystery. They're dynamic. Drivers that are constantly in flux, interacting, cascading, and creating different things. They are not as predictable. AI is very helpful in environments that display features of predictability.

[27:02] Roger says even AI can't predict the unpredictable. It's important to have that distinction in mind. Some of our most complex societal challenges, how the different elements of deep uncertainty interact; not all of them are knowable at this stage.

[27:25] Roger says that when you put all those together, then AI will not do a better job than humans because they are probabilistic and there's no data on the future.

[27:42] Roger says the benefit of AI for decision-making is an environment that displays that degree of predictability, where data helps.

[27:49] The danger of delegating decision-making to machines in complex environments, in which they don't do a better job than humans, is that humans are de-skilling, by virtue of delegating to machines. You're becoming less versatile in practicing your critical thinking, judgment, etc.

[28:09] Roger says, as machines are becoming more human-like, the existential risk is that humans are becoming more machine-like. That's how Roger would frame whether AI is relevant or not.

[28:24] Justin says that when he tried to help her daughter with an answer to a Social Studies question, and he wrote it out, she rejected it because she said it looked like AI wrote it. He wasn't trying to replicate AI.

[29:10] Justin comments on interconnectedness in enterprise risk management. This is also something that the SERMC has written on. It's something our members grapple with every day. Small organization or large, one thing will affect the next.

[29:40] Justin asks, when you have interconnected risks, from geopolitical instability, to cyber, to climate, to supply chain, how should risk professionals be approaching them now?

[29:54] Roger thinks it's helpful to understand the dimensions of the systemic disruption or metaruption. Metaruptions are provocations to metatrends.

[30:11] Roger says that with trends, you're relying on the past, you're not taking the next-order implications, and you're not thinking about how they interact, etc. Roger thinks uncertainty is compounding, so we need to think about the dimensions of metaruptions.

[30:28] Why is it compounding? What do you do about it? That's linked to why it's compounding. The features or dimensions of metaruptions are: Simultaneous multi-domains that are interacting and that are systemic and entangled, causing deep uncertainty or unpredictability.

[31:04] The shape is nonlinear. Besides the disproportionate input-output equation, it is also threshold-driven. You can have tipping points and irreversibility. That's important when thinking about climate, AI, and technology.

[31:20] It's not the same saying that something is exponential, as to having a tipping point. Tipping points can work both ways, good ideas or not.

[31:34] Roger says that irreversibility is where the anticipatory comes in. Even if things are unpredictable, you need to think about them.

[31:43] Roger says the conditions are entanglement-systemic; the shape is nonlinear. Roger speaks of the propagation of change. You have real-time contagion and an inverse relationship between interdependence and how much slack there is.

[32:02] You have tight coupling, with dense dependencies, thin buffers, limited redundancy, and single points of failure that can cascade. The pace is very fast. It's accelerating. That pace means compressed decision times.

[32:25] The outcomes are not just going to happen. They're not deterministic. They partly depend on how you see the world, how you prepare, and how you respond. What do you do about this? You change how you see the world, how you prepare, and how you respond.

[32:46] Roger shares an example. You might have seen in France that there was refrigeration for hundreds of supermarkets. Hackers got in, changed the thermostats to 50 Celsius, and there were tens and tens of millions of dollars in damages to frozen goods from it, across hundreds of stores.

[33:27] This example happened just a few days ago. It got global coverage because it has very significant food security implications. It's happening more and more, but why? It's linked to AI. Previously, doing this kind of damage would be a needle in a haystack; with AI, it's like radar.

[33:57] It's an attractor for single points of failure. You can use AI to find a single point of failure in utilities, healthcare, etc. In this case, it was certain control systems that set the refrigeration temperature. It could be much more significant and much more systemic. That is easy to find.

[34:16] Those attractors for single points of failure have tight coupling, no redundancy, no buffers, and no slack. Roger says the answer is to see the world and understand how serious single points of failure are. Why you need to be resilient is to avoid single points of failure.

[34:51] That's where the resilience-plus of antifragility comes in. You need to be anticipatory and think about the next-order implications. What could happen if you could no longer move water from the mountains in California to L.A.? It would take three weeks to run out of water.

[35:30] Roger says you need resilience in systems because it's so easy to find single points of failure, vulnerabilities, and weaknesses. Because they're non-linear and tight-coupling, they can cascade quickly and with significant impact.

[35:47] You need to be anticipatory in terms of what that means, and you need the agility to react as they happen.

[35:54] Unless people see the world differently with these different dynamics, prepare differently in terms of what it means, and then respond with agility for when things happen, there is more and more scope for challenges and opportunities with these kinds of dynamics.

[36:17] Justin asks if all futurists think this way. Roger says, among the general public, and even some futurists, a lot of people still feel like they are able to predict the future and rely on a lot of trends and forecasts. If anyone tells you they can predict the future, run a million miles away!

[36:47] Roger would say that most professionally trained, serious futurists would think in terms of dimensions, being systemic, and other things.

[36:56] Roger's contribution is that he has focused a lot on considering our environment to be structurally unpredictable, which has ramifications that go beyond certain things we might use as business as usual.

[37:16] Also, the Triple-A in its own right brings in a number of things that are not just futuristic thinking or strategic foresight. Antifragility or resilience is not necessarily a foresight tool. Agility is not necessarily a foresight tool, which is more about long-term thinking scenarios.

[37:36] Roger wrote a paper on this: When the future is today, with the features we're talking about, we need to reframe the tidy dichotomies of futurists, which are putting things cleanly in a box, separating the future from the present, and the likely from the less likely.

[37:54] Some of these tidy dichotomies that the futurist field relies on also have their own provocations.

[38:03] Justin reminds listeners that Roger will be kicking off the RIMS ERM Conference on November 19th at 9:00 a.m., and that it goes until 10:15. Roger says there will be at least 15 minutes for a Q&A slot in a fun, interactive way.

[38:31] Roger is otherwise always contactable for anyone who attends. There are further ways to engage over time.

[38:41] Special thanks again to Roger Spitz for joining us here on RIMScast.

[38:45] A link to https://www.disruptivefutures.org/ is in this episode's show notes, as is a link to his http://risk.net/ paper, "The Future of Risk and Insurability in the Era of Systemic Disruption, Unpredictability, and Artificial Intelligence."

[39:01] Of course, we look forward to his Keynote at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026. Learn more and register now at https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[39:13] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[39:30] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[39:47] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[40:01] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[40:13] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Look for coverage of RIMS Canada 2026!

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

"The Future of Risk and Insurability In The Era of Systemic Disruption, Unpredictability and Artificial Intelligence", co-authored by Roger Spitz

https://www.disruptivefutures.org/

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Workshops:

Live Workshop, Led by RIMS President Manny Padilla | Dec. 3‒4, 2026 | St. John's University, NY

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Organization's Bottom Line" | Dec. 3, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume"

"AI and the Future of Risk with Dan Chuparkoff" (ERM 2025 Keynote)

"The Human Side of Risk with Jerome Mayne"

"Solving Wicked Problems with Dr. Gav Schneider"

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"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

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"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

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RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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About our guest: Roger Spitz, Chair, Disruptive Futures Institute; President, Techistential

RIMS 2026 ERM Conference Keynote

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Amy C. Waninger, CEO of Lead at Any Level, about her more than a decade in the insurance industry and then moving into leadership development and consulting. They discuss what makes someone effective at leading through uncertainty.

Amy explains what "leading at any level" looks like for someone who doesn't have a leadership title. She delves into navigating change, networking, leadership, and cultivating the talents you choose so you can bring forward the best value you have to offer to others.

Amy talks about the human side of change and how to adapt to it internally before leading others through it. Amy tells about her experience as the closing keynote at the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026.

Listen for Amy Waninger's advice for one practical way you can start building a stronger and more intentional professional network.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Amy Waninger. She was a keynote speaker at the RIMS Texas Regional 2026, and she is here to discuss how networking can provide a path to leadership and opportunities in the risk management profession. Before we get to our interview…

[:51] Webinars: On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics."

[:59] Origami Risk returns on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This session was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for that one, you are automatically registered for the new date in December.

[1:15] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On November 10th, we will host a session about the "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: an update on Federal Developments."

[1:31] On December 3rd, we've got "Third-Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Bottom Line." Find all webinars at https://www.rims.org/webinars.

[1:41] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[1:58] On with the Show! Amy C. Waninger is the author of Moving from Panic to Purpose: Surviving and Thriving During Unrelenting Change at Work, and she was the closing keynote for the RIMS Texas Regional 2026.

[2:13] In this episode, we discuss how risk professionals at all levels can access frameworks that they can use, and the confidence to lead through whatever comes next.

[2:28] Since Amy was an insurance professional for 10 years, she has unique insight into what many of you are going through right now. We'll talk panic, purpose, networking, and leadership today. We're going to have a lot of fun! Let's get started!

[2:44] Interview! Amy C. Waninger, Welcome to RIMScast!

[3:00] Justin says it's a cool opportunity to have Amy on the podcast, as this is the unofficial Networking Month in the U.S.

[3:36] Justin notes that Amy is a former insurance industry professional. She calls herself a recovering insurance nerd.

[3:53] Amy had an IT career first. In her career in information technology and software development, she was in a consulting role for a major insurance carrier for a couple of years. She transitioned into management at that carrier. She was there for almost 10 years.

[4:19] Amy worked in Business Systems and IT Systems across Claims, Underwriting, Analytics, and Actuarial, in both Personal and Commercial lines. She has had exposure to a lot of things. She has a CPCU and "a whole bunch of other letters" after her name in that space.

[4:58] Amy had been working for a very small consulting firm. It was a good insurance year, and Amy joined the insurance company for the bonuses. Then she fell in love with the industry.

[5:29] Amy says when she worked for a major carrier, it was the first time she got real training on what to do as a leader in an organization. Up to that point, she had been reading books and cobbling together her own leadership philosophy.

[5:47] Amy says that seeing that there was good training available to leaders in big organizations was eye-opening to her. That's a big part of why Amy started her own leadership development company.

[6:00] Amy realized that she had been missing out on this information about a cohesive leadership narrative in her career up to that point.

[6:28] Amy says starting a company takes more savings than you think it will. It takes more sales training than you think it will. And it takes a little more stupidity than you want to admit to. But she wouldn't change it for the world. She says she hopes she learns from her mistakes.

[6:50] Amy says entrepreneurship is a big cycle of "try it, fail, try something else."

[7:13] Justin asks what makes someone effective at leading through uncertainty. Amy says, one, being able to couch the change in a larger story that makes sense to people is really important as a leader in change.

[7:26] Amy says, explain here's why this is happening. Here's what it means for us. Here's the opportunity, and here's what it could look like on the other side if we get this right.

[7:41] Amy says from a personal navigation standpoint, leaders need to get their own oxygen flowing before they can help someone else. That is to find a way to respond that is authentic and values-driven, as opposed to reacting from a place of fear.

[8:07] Amy says once people figure out what matters to them most in the change and align their activities and intentions toward what matters to them, then they can start to help others through it.

[8:40] Justin asks what leading at any level looks like for someone who is not in a leadership role in their organization. Amy says she believes that your title does not make you a leader, and you need to lead first.

[8:56] Leadership starts with knowing who you are and what you have to offer, and then pulling that forward at every opportunity so that you are maximizing your value to others, but also building confidence in yourself.

[9:12] Leadership is about seeing an opportunity for what's needed and stepping into that fully, sometimes asking for permission, sometimes asking for forgiveness, depending on your environment.

[9:25] Amy says leadership is stepping into those white spaces where there's a gap and saying I can take this; I can run with this. This is what I can contribute in this moment. That can happen for anybody, no matter where they sit.

[9:39] Amy says she was doing this as an intern, seeing opportunities and stepping up, and speaking up when she saw something that needed a change or attention.

[9:48] Every one of those moments becomes a defining moment in your career when people see your potential and what you have to offer and say Let's give them more opportunity for more white space so that they can make more of a difference.

[10:05] Justin says if you stay at a position or a place long enough, usually you can show your worth, and somebody will give you that opportunity, and more than once.

[10:27] Amy worked in insurance from 2008 to 2019. She was familiar with RIMS, but she was on the IT side, so the education and community she sought out was different from RIMS because she wasn't in risk management, per se.

[10:56] Amy understood the relationship of RIMS to the insurance industry and the evolution of RIMS over time. The risk management role started as the person who buys insurance, and now it's everything from insurance to bonding to cybersecurity and global market forces.

[11:21] Amy says It's fascinating to see the evolution of this role over time.

[11:40] Justin asks Amy what her reaction was to the Texas Regional 2026. The first thing Amy noticed was how many sponsors there were. She says, You know it's going to be a good conference if your sponsors are there, engaged, and excited to be there.

[11:58] Amy says sponsors are how you get the open bar and the good food. Everything follows from drawing in those sponsors. Most of the problems people have in that room can be solved by going and walking the vendor hall.

[12:20] Amy says she attends the same speaker conference every year. This year, she chose to skip some of the educational programming and just go talk to the vendors and sponsors there, to find out what problems they are solving that she may not even know she has.

[12:50] That was as educational to Amy as some of the sessions she missed. She encourages people to do that at a conference. A lot of times, people try not to make eye contact and run through that space. That's a huge mistake. You don't know what solutions are available to you.

[13:09] Amy says the first thing she noticed at the Texas Regional 2026 was the sponsor turnout, and the sponsor engagement and enthusiasm.

[13:16] Amy says the other thing that he noticed was that people tended to talk with the people they came with. It's important to break up those cliques. Make a game of not talking to each other until dinner, and then meeting up and talking about who you met and what you learned.

[13:44] Another game Amy likes to play, if she's there with somebody who is also an introvert like Amy, is to learn as much as she can about that person and their work, and make a game of introducing them to people, so the spotlight's not on her.

[14:16] Amy says another game she plays at conferences is to attach herself to an extrovert, and let them introduce her to everybody. All of the pressure is off. Amy says it's good to team up. If she gamifies a conference, she's in good shape.

[14:47] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[15:10] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd.

[15:28] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes.

[15:41] Let's Return to Our Interview with Amy Waninger!

[15:48] Amy's keynote was "Moving from Panic to Purpose: Responding to Changes in Your Career." She shared three messages to take away:

[16:08] 1. If you're overwhelmed by change, you're not alone. Your community is in this room to help you. Make connections here so when you leave here, you don't feel alone.

[16:21] 2. Responding to change is not just a risk management activity. It's an intensely personal, emotional, and physiological activity. If we don't deal with the change inside us, it manifests itself in ways that affect our health and our relationships. We need to do that work.

[16:56] 3. If you understand why a change impacts you, feels emotional, and feels personal, unpack that and find out what matters most to you; that's going to keep you on target and keep you on a healthy path.

[17:22] People coming up to Amy after a keynote to talk about it is deep talk, not small talk. Please come talk to her. Starting a conversation is hard for Amy, but if somebody comes up to her and wants to talk, she will talk all day long. She loves that connection.

[17:51] What Amy misses in small talk is connection. What Amy wants to know is what someone's struggle is and what they are excited about. Who do you want to meet here? What's the problem you are trying to solve? It's hard to get there from small talk.

[18:24] There were people who came up after Amy's keynote, when she was doing a book signing, and they dove into conversations. One gentleman said My wife needs your book because she's dealing with a lot of this right now.

[18:43] Amy says she will have people who have been pushing the emotion of the change down for so long that it's like a dam breaks, and they will come up and hug Amy and cry. They'd never given themselves permission to name their grief, their fear, or their anxiety.

[18:59] Amy says, once we name it, the power of that feeling is gone.

[19:08] Amy gets IT questions from her family only. When Amy left tech in 2019, the new thing was Big Data. No one was talking about AI. All of her tech knowledge is obsolete now. She's fine with that.

[20:04] Justin asks about networking. Amy asks Justin, You know a lot, but do you know everything? Do you have time to learn everything? When you need to go deep, you need somebody else because you can't be an expert in everything you could possibly need to know.

[20:27] Amy says that makes networking a leadership skill. There is not just knowledge we can search for, but institutional knowledge, historical context, and fixations on stuff we don't care about but that someday we will need to know. You need people for that. You can't know all of it.

[20:49] Amy says, more than that, it's about the different perspectives you get when you talk to people, and specifically, to people who are nothing like you, and build those relationships.

[21:02] The more you can talk to people in other departments, with different educational backgrounds, across a wide variety of demographics, you're going to get different perspectives than you can bring to a moment yourself.

[21:18] Amy says being able to draw upon, recollect, and interact with all of those different perspectives gives you a better basis for decision-making. Leaders make decisions that affect others.

[21:33] Justin shares that with his children, 13 and 9, he knows nothing but is expected to know everything. He's supposed to know how to fix the circuit breaker box, but he knows nothing about what it's like to be a middle schooler, as far as his children believe.

[22:19] One More Quick Break! We've got to talk about the Spencer Educational Foundation and scholarship application deadlines. Applications are open for undergraduate scholarships, and they will close on January 15th, 2027. Scholarship awardees will be notified around May 21st.

[22:39] Full-time Master's scholarships will also have a deadline of January 15th, 2027, and awardees will be notified around May 21st. Part-time Master's scholarships will also have a deadline of January 15th, 2027, and awardees will be notified around May 21st.

[22:58] Pre-dissertation Ph.D. candidates, doctoral candidates, and pre-instructor of practice scholarships may begin applying on December 1st, 2026. The deadline is March 1st, 2027, and awardees will be notified around May 21st.

[23:15] In addition to the general Spencer scholarships, all students who apply for a Spencer scholarship will automatically be considered for one of the many named scholarship awards. For more information, check out https://www.spencered.org/scholarships and the link in the show notes.

[23:33] Let's Conclude Our Dialog with Amy Waninger!

[23:41] Justin asks how Amy made the leap from her career in insurance to public speaking. Amy says that at the time, she really wanted to be in the Diversity and Inclusion space. Her original career ambition was to work as a civil rights attorney.

[24:09] Later, Amy learned how much law school would cost and what pro bono meant. Then she went back and got an IT degree. She didn't have the luxury of taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

[24:29] Amy says originally her goal was that she wanted to go help people find and get access to the opportunity that they deserve. Then she took a 20-year detour of getting paid to do work. When the carrier she was working for hired a Chief Diversity Officer, she wanted to get there.

[24:59] Amy couldn't find a path to Diversity. But when she looked into what that was, and the leadership philosophy she had cultivated, she saw an intersection.

[25:24] Amy says people who go to school for risk management, actuarial, IT, and accounting don't go to school to learn how to deal with people. They go to school to work with numbers, computers, formulas, and spreadsheets.

[25:43] Then, if they're really good at those jobs, they get promoted into roles where they have to care about what other people feel, think, want, and need. They have to understand someone else's experience in order to motivate them, coach them, and lead them.

[26:05] Amy says ultimately, that intersection is where her work lives now. She left the industry to do this after she found some really unique approaches to leading in those kinds of spaces that she felt others could benefit from.

[26:28] One of those approaches is her networking model. Another is her model for responsiveness to change. Amy realized she could help so many more people if she was out there doing this kind of work, not speaking to a team of 10 or 30, but to a room of hundreds.

[26:45] Amy says if she could publish a book, that could go places she could never get to; those are the things she wanted. That's where that pull began. What kind of impact could she have if she could write and speak on a national stage? Now her work has gone global.

[27:30] Justin asks Amy what took her from writing a book to speaking on stage. Amy says she went to conferences where she saw the best and worst of both worlds. One was people who had dynamic stage presence, but who were regurgitating books she had already read.

[27:56] Amy says she saw people who had incredible content, but had delivery that made you really not care.

[28:03] Amy thought, if she could get the best of both of those: be a dynamic presenter who can engage an audience, and come in with some creative, new, compelling content, that's what she wanted to be in that space. She looked until she found people who were doing that consistently.

[28:26] Amy became a member of the National Speakers Association, pitched to her first conference, just knowing the problem she wanted to solve. The content she created for that conference became her first book.

[28:43] Amy learned to pitch to conferences. In her first year, while she was still full-time employed, she spoke at 35 conferences, virtually or in person. The next year, she had 45 lined up. She said, OK, this is where she wants to be, so she decided to go out on her own.

[29:07] Amy had done Toastmasters in the past. Many jobs ago, at a very small company, Amy started a Toastmasters chapter because she could see the power in being a leader who could engage an audience. It was an important skill for her if she were to continue in leadership.

[29:39] Amy was in speech contests in fifth grade. She has never been afraid of being up in front of people. If she had had talent for those things, she might have been an actor or a Broadway singer.

[30:08] She didn't have Broadway talent, but she can get up in front of people and be herself and tell stories that people can connect to and pull them in in a way that makes them feel they got something valuable out of the time.

[30:24] Amy is not the motivational speaker who makes you feel good at the time, but you walk away wondering what she said. Amy goes in, tells you a story, and tells you how to apply it in your life with a five-point framework, and you come out with notes and a new way of thinking.

[30:52] Amy says there are a lot of different kinds of speakers and there's a place for all of them. She feels so fortunate to be the kind of speaker that she is, and to do it with a RIMS audience in Texas. That was amazing. Justin says we got some great feedback about that.

[31:12] Justin says Toastmasters was excellent. But then COVID happened, and he stopped. Justin has never been afraid of an audience. Justin recommends doing stand-up comedy for building up your confidence. You have no shield except for a microphone stand and a stool.

[31:40] Justin did stand-up comedy for a year. Then a real work opportunity came up, and he couldn't sustain the stand-up anymore. He says, do stand-up three times. If you don't like it after that, you've done it. If you like it, you keep going and build those skills and confidence.

[32:16] Justin says that, at the same time, he was working weekends providing entertainment at karaoke parties. That was his preparation for this sort of format, where he is a show host. You take those skills that you don't realize are building toward something else.

[32:55] Amy read Steve Martin's autobiography a few years ago. When he was young, a mentor told him, "You'll use everything you've ever done." Amy loves that. You're going to pull from every experience you've ever had for whatever's next, and it looks linear in reverse.

[33:16] It looks like all the blocks were there to build this thing that you could never foresee in the beginning. The other side is, you can't draw upon skills you've never developed. To Amy, the thought of stand-up is terrifying because she never developed that skill.

[33:45] Amy says getting up in front of 700 people to deliver a keynote, talk about her book, and tell a deeply personal story about postpartum depression or losing her job a dozen times, or whatever, doesn't bother her at all. That kind of vulnerability she can do. Jokes, on purpose, no.

[34:10] Amy says she uses a lot of humor in her keynotes and workshops, and people say she's funny, but it's an authentic kind of funny. It's not a manufactured "I wrote these jokes" kind of funny.

[14:33] Justin says he sneaks in some ridiculous Dad jokes just to keep people interested.

[34:45] Amy says it's about what skills you want to cultivate, and what you have in your toolbox that you can draw on later.

[35:23] Justin asks Amy about networking. Amy has a book, Network Beyond Bias, and there is a lot in there, but knowing who you are is the start of it. If you were to be the most you that you can be, what would the value be to others? Bring that forward intentionally. It's so important.

[35:53] When Amy first started doing this, she thought her value to others was that she could connect people to each other, to ideas, and to resources. She led with that, and it worked really well.

[36:08] Over nine years, Amy has learned that the best thing she can bring forward is really seeing other people and helping them feel seen. She can do that from the stage, one-on-one, in coaching, and in different environments.

[36:27] She has been intentional about building that skill. It's also intrinsic to who she is. She really does see people, see what they're going through, and see through their struggle, and can hold space for them for just a moment and make them feel safe.

[36:46] Amy says everybody's thing is different and it's not one thing; it's a basket of them. If you know what that is, it helps you walk into a space more confidently. It helps the right people find you. It helps you find the right people.

[37:04] Amy says it helps you get to a place where you want to go even if you don't have a destination in mind.

[37:13] Justin says that's a great sentiment to leave us with today. Amy, it has been such a pleasure to reconnect with you. I look forward to seeing you on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for your time. It's been wonderful.

[37:31] Special thanks again to Amy Waninger for joining us here on RIMScast. Learn more about her and her networking and leadership philosophies at https://www.leadatanylevel.com/. Remember to use the tips you heard today at your next networking event or RIMS conference.

[37:51] Remember the RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held in Columbus, Ohio, November 19th and 20th. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026 for more information and do register!.

[38:03] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[38:20] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[38:27] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[38:31] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[39:03] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Look for coverage of RIMS Canada 2026!

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

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RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

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RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

https://www.leadatanylevel.com/

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Organization's Bottom Line" | Dec. 3, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Broadcasting and Building Bridges with Mark Romig"

"The Human Side of Risk with Jerome Mayne"

"Reputation and Defense with Jeff McKissack"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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About our guest: Amy C. Waninger, CEO, Lead at Any Level

Author, Moving from Panic to Purpose

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Commander, Canadian Joint Forces Command, about similarities between the Armed Forces and risk managers, what the Canadian Armed Forces have taught him about uncertainty, gathering as much information as needed, and making the good enough decision. Gen. Molstad describes what qualities are needed in a leader or a risk manager. The discussion includes making decisions objectively, not emotionally, and the OODA Loop. They discuss the interconnectedness of risks, including geopolitical scenarios.

Listen for Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad's insight into three characteristics a good leader needs to have.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. I am interviewing Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Commander of the Canadian Joint Forces Command. We will talk about strategic and split-decision risk-making ahead of his Keynote at the RIMS Canada Conference on October 19th. But first…

[:52] Webinars: On Oct. 22nd, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders."

[1:03] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics."

[1:10] Origami Risk returns on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This session was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for that one, you are automatically registered for the new date in December.

[1:26] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On November 10th, we will host a session about the "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: an update on Federal Developments."

[1:42] On December 3rd, we've got "Third-Party Litigation Funding: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Bottom Line." Find all webinars at https://www.rims.org/webinars.

[1:52] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:10] On with the Show! If you follow RIMScast Canada, you may recognize this interview. It's available at https://www.rims.org/Canada, but I was so happy with the final product that I decided to take the audio and deliver it to the world via RIMScast.

[2:28] Our guest is Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Commander of the Canadian Joint Forces Command. Gen. Molstad joined the Canadian Armed Forces more than 30 years ago, and he has completed operational tours in Bagotville, Cold Lake, and Beaufort, South Carolina.

[2:45] Gen. Molstad has commanded at the Squadron Air Task Force and Wing Levels. He conducted extensive post-9/11 alert duties across Canada and has deployed on operations in Asia, Iceland, Romania, and the Middle East.

[2:59] Gen. Molstad has served in senior exec. roles, including Special Advisor to the Minister of National Defense, Director General in the Strategic Joint Staff, and Chief of Force Development.

[3:11] On Mon., Oct. 19th, at 9:00 a.m., Gen. Molstad will kick off the RIMS Canada Conference 2026 with a fireside chat. We'll learn about his career, how risk management played a role, and the wisdom and knowledge that he imparts to risk managers and business professionals.

[3:20] We'll learn about his career, how risk management has played a role, the sort of wisdom and knowledge that he imparts to corporate risk managers and business professionals, and get a preview of the sorts of risk philosophies that he'll share at the RIMS Canada Conference, 2026.

[3:40] If you're on the fence about attending, we hope this interview will give you the extra incentive you need to register at https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/. I'm so proud to present this interview!

[3:52] Interview! Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Welcome to RIMScast!

[3:58] Justin mentions the crossover between the armed services and risk management. They make strategic decisions and split-second decisions. There's the long view and the short view.

Gen. Molstad says our day-to-day in the military is all about risk management.

[4:16] Gen. Molstad says it's about mitigating risk to the extent possible, accepting a certain amount of risk, understanding what the ramifications are in accepting those risks, and how you deal if something happens, ensuring you arrive at your objectives, through risk management.

[4:44] Justin asks about Gen. Molstad's comfort with uncertainty being inevitable. Gen. Molstad says you learn to get comfortable with it over time. Gen. Molstad joined the Canadian Armed Forces not to be a three-star general and a strategic leader but to be a fighter pilot.

[5:03] Gen. Molstad found himself being promoted over the years into these positions of leadership where risk management was his bread and butter. As a commander and as a business leader, it is your responsibility to manage that risk and understand it.

[5:19] Uncertainty is not the exception; it's the norm. We have to be comfortable in that uncertain space. We have to understand what information we are seeking.

[5:30] We have a bias toward accessing information that's simply available to us and is easy to get, rather than the information we need to make the best decision. We have to make decisions without the full amount of information.

[5:45] We say in the military, perfect is the enemy of good enough. A good enough decision faster, with the ability to adapt in an agile manner, is in many ways better than the perfect decision that takes forever to get to. You'll never get to that perfect decision.

[6:04] Justin asks: How do you build an organization that is prepared for the unexpected without trying to prepare for every possible scenario?

[6:17] Gen. Molstad says the military approach is to look at scenarios. The two most important scenarios the military considers are the most likely course of action and the most dangerous course of action. They will look at other subscenarios.

[6:38] Gen. Molstad says that when he was a fighter pilot and was leading large force employment missions, and he was briefing 100 different formation members the next day, he woke up in the night thinking about a contingency that he had never thought of.

[6:53] Then he wrote down a few notes about what he would do in that contingency, in order to brief the formation to execute the mission successfully.

[7:02] Gen. Molstad says the best plans rarely survive contact with the enemy (and your competitors). You can build the best plan in the world, but it's likely never going to be executed as you planned, so you have to have a level of agility built into your system to be able to adapt.

[7:19] Gen. Molstad says that comes with two things. One is experience. The more experienced the leader you are, the more situations you've seen; you've got a repository of scenarios you can draw back into to determine what's the best course of action very quickly.

[7:37] Gen. Molstad says there's another aspect that's not well-studied: fluid intelligence, or the ability to take an abstract situation you've never seen, and process this complex set of information to come to an abstract idea of the best course of action.

[7:59] It's a combination of experience and fluid intelligence. When people talk about intuition, it's just a fancy word for experience. Intuition is drawing on your previous experience.

[8:14] It's a combination of things: perfect is the enemy of good enough, and we've got to be ready to adapt with the good, rough decisions.

[8:25] Gen. Molstad is looking forward to that fireside chat. One Important thing, thinking about risk management, is that we have to think about it from the bigger picture. Many times, people look at the nearest alligator to the boat, the immediate crisis. There's always a bigger picture.

[8:52] Gen. Molstad says in the military we have different levels of operations: the tactical level where the engagement happens, the operational level with Army, Navy, and Air Force working together, and the strategic and political levels where there's a bigger picture to all of it.

[9:12] Gen. Molstad says there's a tendency to react quickly to immediate risks and urgencies. You cannot become a heat seeker in a room full of candles without thinking about how that impacts everything else. State actors, in world political situations, are playing 3D chess.

[9:41] Gen. Molstad says many activities are linked. Countries approach things from a whole-society approach where all instruments of national power are being used in concert with each other, and complementary to each other.

[9:55] Gen. Molstad says it's the same thing in the corporate world. In many cases, risks are related to other risks and opportunities. We have to be able to take a step back and see what the bigger picture is.

[10:08] Justin refers to interconnected risks. Gen. Molstad says they are interconnected, and these are complex problems. There are no easy solutions. Whatever solutions you develop are probably not going to be perfect solutions.

[10:31] You have to build resilience and agility into your organization to react quickly. It's very important to challenge your assumptions. We have to do that constantly. Our assumptions can change gradually and insidiously. Follow a rigorous cycle of reassessing your assumptions.

[11:00] Some assumptions change drastically. Think of the geopolitical assumptions that have been made in the last couple of years.

[11:08] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[11:28] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd.

[11:46] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes.

[11:59] Let's Return to Our Interview with Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad!

[12:07] Gen. Molstad will have his 30th anniversary in the Canadian Armed Forces in December. He says it's an honor to serve, and it has been an incredible career.

[12:27] Gen. Molstad is in a position, as one of 12 three-star generals in the Canadian Armed Forces, to help advance and use the investments the government is making in the Canadian Armed Forces to give our military the tools they need to deter, defend, and defeat, if required.

[12:52] Gen. Molstad says the level of geopolitical risk is higher than he has ever seen in his career and in his lifetime. We need to be prepared for that.

[13:01] Gen. Molstad started as a fighter pilot, and now he's flying a desk. It's a really high-performance desk!

[13:13] Justin asks about the interconnectedness of risks when Gen. Molstad joined the Canadian Armed Forces 30 years ago, compared to today. Gen. Molstad says he would call it below the threshold. For decades after the Cold War, we were living within a peace dividend.

[13:44] Gen. Molstad says there was a degree of taking our eyes off of the great power competition and potential for major combat operations that we're now seeing occurring in Eastern Europe and other places.

[13:54] Gen. Molstad says we ended up in a very important counter-insurgency fight, a counter-violent-extremist-organization fight after 9/11. He lived viscerally through 9/11 on duty in Northeastern Canada, when so many planes came across and landed in Canadian airports.

[14:16] Gen. Molstad says we entered into that phase on counter-violent-extremist organizations, and we took our eyes off the state activities that were occurring from potential adversaries and competitors.

[14:26] That was below the threshold, but in the last several years, after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia, it is now elevated above the threshold.

[14:38] Everyone is seeing the state interconnectedness where things don't happen in isolation. Things are connected, and we have to be able to tie those connections together.

[14:44] Justin asks about silos. Gen. Molstad says silos are very dangerous in all organizations. Silos increase your risk surface area. Breaking down silos is about finding synergies and efficiencies, so we're not duplicating efforts.

[15:27] We're getting better outcomes by assigning resources where they best fit. Gen. Molstad says in a military context, silos prevent the right information from getting to the right person at the right time.

[15:36] In simple terms, command and control is getting the right information to the right person at the right time to make the best decision possible. There are many cases in military history where silos have been very dangerous and have potentially cost lives in dangerous situations.

[15:56] Gen. Molstad says it's really important to ensure that those silos are broken down, that we understand what is happening across organizations and what is happening across governments.

[16:07] The importance of breaking down silos is about decision superiority and making the best decisions. Gen. Molstad explains the OODA Loop: observe, orient, decide, act, and continuously iterate on that.

[16:33] You've got to have the right information to observe, to orient yourself. You can't orient yourself if silos exist. If silos exist, your decisions are going to be limited. They're not going to be as high quality as they could be.

[16:50] Gen. Molstad says it's really important to break down the silos and ensure that you're getting the right information to the right people at the right time.

[16:56] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk Management™, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[17:17] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[17:31] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[17:49] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[17:58] Let's Return to Our Interview with Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad!

[18:05] Justin asks how often Gen. Molstad meets with business leaders, decision-makers, and people in the corporate finance sector. In the last two to three years, Gen. Molstad has had a lot of opportunities to do that.

[18:21] Gen. Molstad got involved with the Institute of Corporate Directors about two and a half years ago when he gave a chapter event. He continued to engage with Corporate Canada on risk management and viewpoints from a senior military leader.

[18:37] Gen. Molstad took the ICD designation as well to understand corporate governance. Governance in the Canadian Armed Forces and in the Canadian government are different. Understanding what other organizations do in terms of governance is really important.

[18:57] Gen. Molstad has taken part in workshops that have been planned by governance centers of excellence. There's an inundation of industry coming toward the Canadian Armed Forces because of the unprecedented investments in defense.

[19:14] Gen. Molstad says we're engaging with the opportunities we have in Canada for defense investments, and ensuring that we have the industrial base that we need, very much engaging with the corporate community for the last two and a half years. It's been really enriching.

[19:30] Gen. Molstad says he's learning a lot from corporate Canada and he hopes they're learning a lot from him as well.

[19:37] Justin notes that one of the big buzzwords in mainstream media and risk management is resilience. Gen. Molstad calls it le mot du jour, both at the individual level and at the organizational level. At the individual level, resilience is both mental and physical.

[20:16] From a military perspective, we need physical resilience to operate in harsh environments. We need mental resilience to react in a positive way to stressful situations to be sure we're using rational thought and that we can move forward.

[20:42] Organizational resilience is about organizational adaptability and agility. That happens through sets and reps, going through situations that give you exposure that requires resilience. We get that on a day-to-day basis in the military when we do exercises and operations.

[21:04] Gen. Molstad says we're tested in our resilience, organizationally and individually, all the time.

[21:18] Gen. Molstad repeats that things don't happen in isolation and we need to be looking at the big picture. Gen. Molstad would like Corporate Canada to take away that they are an integral part of our national security. National security and economic prosperity are interdependent.

[21:41] We need to be prepared as a society to ensure that we can react to global shocks in a way that is going to be positive for our economy and for our national security. It's important to have early-warning mechanisms in place. In the military, we call them indicators and warnings.

[22:01] Gen. Molstad says we look for specific things that might indicate that something is happening that we need to be prepared for. In the corporate world, you have to develop that same sort of system. What are the things that will indicate potential risks or the need to pivot?

[22:20] Gen. Molstad says we have to be careful not to respond emotionally to the risks that we face. Take a few deep breaths, understand how much time we have to react, and go at your problems with a very objective and rational mindset.

[22:42] In your organization, you have to build the capital and the trust that is needed so that when it's time to surge, in a moment of extremis, you've got the workforce that is ready to line up behind you and surge with you, because you've built that trust and that capital.

[23:04] You can't have an organization in a constant state of surge, because you will rapidly reduce the capital and trust that you have with your organization. You have to find the balance between day-to-day activities and moments of extremis, to get through those difficult moments.

[23:44] Justin asks about leadership under pressure. Gen. Molstad says being deliberate, listening before speaking, and being a good human. Leadership can be summed up in a simple sentence: be a good human. If you start with that, everything else should fall into place.

[24:06] Gen. Molstad says often the best ideas don't come from the top. Listen to your entire organization. He says everyone in a hierarchical organization is a leader. The youngest, most junior-ranked person may have some amazing ideas you need to listen to and consider.

[24:24] It's very important in leadership under pressure to look at the time you have available to you, try to listen before you speak, and try to make the best decision that you can, being careful not to be a victim of your own biases. Hear from everybody to make a better-informed decision.

[24:54] Once you make your decision, execute it faithfully. Own your decision. The buck stops here. It's your responsibility, your authority, and your accountability. It's the same thing in Corporate Canada. Make the decision, own it, drive it, and lead from the front.

[25:24] Justin says we want people to come out and see you on Monday, October 19th, at 9:00 a.m. for a moderated discussion, which will be hosted by Michael Lewis, the President of Marsh Risk Canada.

[25:40] Gen. Molstad's last words: Be proud of your Canadian Armed Forces. Our soldiers, sailors, aviators, and special operators are doing incredible work.

[25:30] We have an opportunity of a lifetime in a dangerous world to bolster Canada's defense, Canada's national security interconnectedness, and overall, our economic prosperity as a result of that. I look forward to working with all of you to do that with a common objective.

[26:12] The people who serve in uniform are somebody's son or daughter. I think about that every day because one of them is my son. I take decisions knowing that I've got to make sure that they have the tools that they need to succeed. We can do it together.

[26:30] I see our moment as a very difficult moment, but it's an opportunity of a lifetime, where if we work together, we can achieve common objectives. Be proud of your Armed Forces. Thank them for their service when you see them. We are very proud of them.

[26:46] Special thanks again to Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad for joining us here on RIMScast. If you want to see the video version of this interview, with some great still images spliced in there, head over to https://www.rims.org/Canada.

[27:03] His fireside chat will be the opening Keynote at the RIMS Canada Conference in Quebec City, on October 19th. So many great speakers have been booked, including Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, a recent guest on the show. If you're on the fence, this is the time to buy your ticket.

[27:22] Register now at https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/.

[27:24] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[27:41] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[27:58] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[28:11] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[28:23] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the video with Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad of the Canadian Joint Forces Command.

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Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

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See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

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RIMS.org/Webinars

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third Party Litigation Funding Risk" | Dec. 3, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes from 2026:

"Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau"

"When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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About our guest: Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Commander of the Canadian Joint Forces Command

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Mark Prysock, RIMS General Counsel and VP of External Affairs, about changes to the board nomination process, RIMS Advocacy efforts, and how RIMS makes an impact. Mark tells how the March 2026 RIMS Legislative Summit was a success. They discuss the National Flood Insurance Program.

Mark and Justin discuss two upcoming webinars Mark will host for RIMS Advocacy on November 10th (on the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program) and December 3rd (on third-party litigation funding legislation).

Listen for Mark's insight into RIMS Advocacy, Public Policy, and Legislative Goals.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will get an advocacy update from RIMS General Counsel and Vice President of External Affairs, Mark Prysock. But first…

[:42] Webinars: On Oct. 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."

[:52] On Oct. 22nd, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders."

[1:03] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics."

[1:11] Origami Risk returns on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This session was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for that one, you are automatically registered for the new date in December.

[1:26] Find all webinars at https://www.rims.org/webinars.

[1:29] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[1:47] On with the Show! We are overdue for an advocacy update, and Mark Prysock is here to tell us what is going on with third-party litigation funding, the National Flood Insurance Program, the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act, and some new board nomination protocols for RIMS.

[2:08] Whether you are a U.S.-based member or an international member, this episode will speak to you. Always feel free to reach out to Mark Prysock for any other questions or comments.

[2:21] Mark is also here because we will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On Nov. 10th, we will host a session about the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA) and an update on Federal developments.

[2:39] On Dec. 3rd, we will host a session about third-party litigation funding. I will be there to announce, and Mark Prysock will moderate. Links to those webinars are at https://www.rims.org/Webinars. These are the topics that are driving the profession now, so let's learn more about them today.

[2:55] Interview! Mark Prysock, Welcome Back to RIMScast!

[3:23] Mark says that for the past two years, the RIMS Board of Directors and the Senior Management Team have explored various changes to the Society's governance to make sure that our governance practices are in sync with best practices across the association landscape.

[3:42] Mark says the most significant change that we adopted is that we are now sending out a call to serve to our members each year, asking them to self-nominate for positions on the Board. That is a significant change for the organization. This year is the first year that we did it.

[4:01] Mark is pleased to report that RIMS received a number of very qualified applications. The Nominating Committee sifted through them, conducted interviews, and settled on next year's Board slate. He says the process went extremely well, and it's how we will do it going forward.

[4:24] Justin asks if this was one of the initiatives led by former RIMS President Kristen Peed. Mark says Gary LaBranche, RIMS CEO, and Kristin Peed, Chair of the Nominating Committee, took the lead on this project. Accepting self-nominations is brand new.

[4:47] Mark says we did a few other things: We changed the composition of the Nominating Committee, and we changed the procedure for appointing officers. The most significant change was sending this call to serve to our members, inviting them to an online application page.

[5:15] Mark says it is considered a best practice in the association space to send out a call to serve to the full membership, letting them know there is a webpage dedicated to the process and what to expect as a Board member. It was good for RIMS to adopt that change.

[5:53] Mark says this is an annual selection process. Every year the Board will have a conversation about what desired competencies they are looking for in incoming candidates. The Nominating Committee will update the web page accordingly and send out a call to serve.

[6:33] Justin asks about the vibe in Washington, D.C. Marks says things have been interesting. It is adversarial, coming up to the mid-term elections. That has made it a little more challenging to accomplish the RIMS legislative goals. RIMS has had some successes.

[7:08] Mark says one thing that's very interesting is that there are many members of the House and Senate who are retiring or moving on at the end of this term. There will be a lot of new faces in Washington, beginning in January.

[7:23] Mark says that will put a bit of pressure on our public policy program to make sure all these new people are educated on our issues. Justin notes that means there will be new staff members to forge relationships with at the Legislative Summit.

[7:46] Mark says there will be a lot of new Congressional staffers who may not know the RIMS issues or priorities. It's on us to make sure that they do know these things, so we will be spending a fair amount of time in D.C.

[8:05] Mark says the Legislative Summit is a very important vehicle for us to deliver our message to Members of Congress and their staff.

[8:25] Mark says meetings with the new Congressional staffers are important opportunities. You get a sense early on in conversations with staff or Members of Congress as to where they stand on RIMS issues. It's good to find new friends. The RIMS issues are not terribly controversial.

[8:47] Mark says it comes down to educating people on the importance of what RIMS is trying to accomplish. If the RIMS team is successful at that, they should make some new friends.

[9:07] Justin recalls that former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski was a RIMScast guest. She mentioned that sometimes Congressional staffers will stay on Capitol Hill and work for a different Congressperson. Mark says absolutely that is the case.

[9:23] Mark says if a member of Congress is losing their job, their staffers use their connections and whatever means available to find new work. Mark was a Congressional staffer, and the Member of Congress he worked for lost his reelection bid. The staffers had to find new work.

[9:48] Mark says it's pretty common for staffers to remain on the Hill, working for different Members. For Mark, it was networking.

[10:12] Mark says if you spend enough time up on Capitol Hill, you realize that the Legislative Branch of Government is run by people under the age of 35. From the Chief of Staff down to the Legislative Correspondent, these are people who, for the most part, are younger than 35.

[10:29] Everybody networks, and you get to know staffers from other offices really well. Opportunities often present themselves. You just have to decide when's the best time to jump.

[10:45] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. This is the last call for registration for the RIMS Canada Conference 2026, which will be October 18th through the 21st in Quebec City. Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information.

[11:02] Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spin-off show, RIMScast Canada video podcast.

[11:11] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[11:25] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd.

[11:44] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes.

[11:56] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS General Counsel and VP of External Affairs Mark Prysock!

[12:06] Justin mentions the RIMS Public Policy Committee. Lynn Haley Pilarski, with General Motors, has chaired the Public Policy Committee for the last couple of years. The Vice Chair is Polly James, with Feld Entertainment. The Committee has been active on a number of fronts.

[12:33] The Public Policy Committee identified RIMS's legislative priorities and found different ways to work those issues, either through grassroots letters, RISK PAC donations, the Legislative Summit, and other lobbying visits. The Public Policy Committee has been active.

[12:55] RIMS's top legislative priorities are: The reauthorization of the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), the National Flood Insurance Program, which is included in the Continuing Resolution to fund the Federal Government, and is typically in short-term extensions of months.

[14:05] Mark says the National Flood Insurance Program is now funded through December 11th of 2026. It is the 36th time the program has been temporarily extended. Mark says Congress will pass another Continuing Resolution to fund the Government into 2027.

[14:29] Justin brings up third-party litigation funding. Mark says it has become a big issue for a lot of organizations. It means you have third parties, such as investment vehicles or hedge funds, that view civil litigation as an asset they can invest in.

[14:58] These third parties will agree to bankroll litigation in exchange for a cut of the proceeds, whatever the settlement might be. Mark says, first, it seems to be a corruption of the civil justice system, and second, at this time, those sorts of arrangements aren't disclosed.

[15:31] Mark says, at a bare minimum, we would like to see those arrangements disclosed. In many cases, the third-party funders control the case. They will be the ones to decide if and when to settle. They will have access to whatever comes out in discovery.

[15:55] Mark says there is the risk of foreign entities investing in these lawsuits for the purpose of gaining a lot of information through the discovery process. Third-party litigation funding is a problem.

[16:12] Mark says the Institute for Legal Reform, the in-house law firm of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, has established that there is a nexus between these third-party litigation funding arrangements and nuclear verdicts, which are the high-dollar verdicts.

[16:30] From the risk perspective, one of the problems is it's going to create a very hard market. There are going to be certain types of insurance that may become difficult, and extremely expensive, if not impossible, to procure. Mark says this is an issue we care very much about.

[16:48] Mark says, we'd like to see disclosure, and more guardrails in place, when it comes to foreign entities and their ability to invest in these lawsuits. A number of Federal bills have been introduced that have all stalled out. Mark expects little progress in this session of Congress.

[17:15] Mark says that North Carolina became the first state to pass a ban on third-party litigation funding arrangements there. Mark says we're encouraged to see this progress at the state level, and we hope that in the next session of Congress, something more can happen.

[17:50] Mark says for the past couple of years there has been talk on the Hill that they should implement changes to the way in which nonprofit organizations like RIMS are taxed.

[18:05] Mark says the argument is that many nonprofit organizations engage in activities similar to what for-profits do, but nonprofits have an advantage in that they are not taxed. Both the House and the Senate discussed making some changes on that front.

[18:26] Mark says that the ASAE headed a large coalition of associations, with RIMS on the Steering Committee, to lobby against taxes on nonprofit organizations. There were two major tax bills passed, and neither of them taxed nonprofit organizations. The associations won.

[19:46] Mark says the Legislative Summit went very well in 2026. It was on March 18th and 19th. There were about 50 attendees. Wednesday, March 18th was the Education Day, at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Offices.

[20:03] There were a lot of good speakers and panelists. Representative Kevin Hern of Oklahoma, now running for the Senate, lobbyists from the U.S. Chamber and other organizations, Congressional Staffers, and some Executive Branch personnel.

[20:31] Thursday, March 19th was the Lobby Day. Everyone went up to the Hill to meet with their Members of Congress and talk about RIMS's issues.

[20:39] Justin says in 2027, the Legislative Summit will be on March 17th and 18th. Mark says it will be in the same format. Education Day will be Wednesday, March 17th, at the U.S. Chamber's Offices. Lobby Day will be Thursday, March 18th, on the Hill.

[21:09] Justin says the registration is not open yet for the Legislative Summit 2027. Mark March 17th and 18th on your calendar. You might want to arrive on the 16th. The Legislative Summit is available to members only. You can go to https://www.rims.org/Membership to become a member today.

[21:35] Justin asks Mark to explain RISK PAC. Mark says RIMS has a political action committee called RISK PAC.

[21:48] RISK PAC raises money from RIMS members and identifies Members of Congress running for reelection who are in a position to influence legislation RIMS is interested in, or have demonstrated they support what RIMS stands for. RISK PAC contributes to their campaigns.

[22:12] Mark says RISK PAC was started in 2011. It's a very important part of the RIMS Public Policy Program. RISK PAC is doing a fundraising event at RISKWORLD in New Orleans. For those who are going to attend RISKWORLD, please plan to come to this fundraising event.

[22:41] Justin says there is a link to RISK PAC in the show notes. Please check it out.

[22:51] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk Management™, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[23:11] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[23:25] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[23:43] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[23:53] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS General Counsel and VP of External Affairs Mark Prysock!

[24:01] Justin says Mark is also here to discuss the two webinars that RIMS Advocacy will be presenting. The first is on November 10th, "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments." That will be from 12:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m., Eastern Time.

[24:16] The second webinar is on December 3rd, "Third-Party Litigation Funding." The time is from 1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m., Eastern Time. Justin asks Mark for an overview of these sessions.

[24:29] Mark says this will be a very good program in two pieces. The first is to provide background and context on the TRIA program, why it was established, and how this public-private partnership works. Two people will lead that discussion.

[25:02] The second part of it will talk about the current state of play. The House has passed its Reauthorization Bill through 2034. They've made a few tweaks to the bill. The Senate passed its version of the bill, a straight reauthorization through 2034.

[25:33] Since there are differences in the two bills, they will need to come together in a Conference Committee where they hash out differences, so they have one unified bill to forward to the President's desk for signature.

[25:49] Justin asks about the differences between the bills. Mark says both reauthorize the program through the end of 2034. The Senate made no changes to the current program. The House adopted a couple of minor changes that are not universally embraced.

[26:11] Mark says the House wants a timer or clock requiring the Treasury Department to certify that an event had, in fact, been a terrorist event.

[26:29] For the TRIA to respond, the Treasury Secretary is required to certify that the event was a terrorist event. The House bill says the Secretary has 90 days to make that certification. Mark says there has been a lot of back-and-forth on that. The Senate bill did not make any changes.

[27:02] Mark says the House bill raises the minimum threshold for an event from $5 million, which it currently is, to $10 million, meaning that something will not be certified as a terrorist event if there are not at least $10 million in losses. The Senate bill did not make any changes.

[27:28] Justin says the November 10th webinar will delve into those things at 12:00 p.m. Eastern Time. On December 3rd, at 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time, we have a session by RIMS Advocacy about third-party litigation funding. Justin asks about the panelists and what we'll discuss.

[27:58] Mark says we're going to have some panelists who have been very involved in this issue at the federal level. There are a few different third-party funding litigation bills that are circulating, but nothing is going to happen within this session of Congress.

[28:22] Mark says that a couple of panelists will talk about what happened at the state level. Chris Smith, who works for the North Carolina U.S. Chamber of Commerce, was very involved in the effort to have North Carolina ban third-party litigation funding arrangements.

[28:46] Mark says we're very happy that he's going to be joining us and talking about how that effort worked in North Carolina.

[28:52] Mark says, we also have Christine Hayes, currently with Chubb. She was previously the Chief of Staff for the Governor of Georgia. Georgia is another state that has started to make some inroads. We hope in the near future, they are going to change the rules in Georgia as well.

[29:14] Mark says we have a very good, interesting panel. It should be an excellent webinar.

[29:19] Justin says we have opened the RIMS Advocacy webinars to members and nonmembers.

[29:27] This is a good chance for nonmembers to see one of the other mechanisms of RIMS and to see how we have influence, and how we can make a difference for our profession, here in the U.S., and as a by-product of that, internationally.

[29:58] We encourage nonmembers to register for those two sessions. November 10th is about the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act Program (TRIA). December 3rd is about third-party litigation funding (TPLF).

[30:08] Mark's final words: This is directed to RIMS members: If you have not come before, please consider attending the Legislative Summit in March. It is a great event. It gives members the opportunity to be lobbyists for a day. Everybody who does it ends up enjoying it.

[30:33] It is a very important part of what we do in the Public Policy Program. Please consider attending.

[30:55] Special thanks again to our good friend Mark Prysock for joining us here on RIMScast. Remember that Mark will be moderating two upcoming webinars for RIMS: one about TRIA on November 10th and one about TPLF on December 3rd. Links are in this episode's show notes.

[31:14] Save the dates, March 17th and 18th, 2027, for the RIMS Legislative Summit. More updates about the Legislative Summit will be available at https://www.rims.org/advocacy.

[31:23] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[31:42] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[31:58] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[32:11] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[32:21] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad of the Canadian Joint Forces Command.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third-Party Litigation Funding Risk" | Dec. 3, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes from 2026:

"25 Years of TRIA: Janice Ochenkowski on Risk, Resilience and Advocacy"

"RIMS Advocacy in 2026 with Mark Prysock"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.

Want to Learn More?

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About our guest: Mark Prysock

RIMS General Counsel & VP External Affairs

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Tram Nguyen, honored as a Spencer Scholar at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala in September in New York City, about her acceptance speech during the Gala, her experience as a young Vietnamese professional, and building her career in the United States. Tram tells about learning to navigate a new language, a new academic environment, a highly specialized field like risk management, and what that experience taught her about herself.

Tram tells how she learned abt risk management at UConn Business School, and how that connected her to Spencer Educational Foundation, and from there to an internship at BNBuilders, which will shift to a full-time risk analyst position when she graduates in December.

Tram speaks highly of her Spencer experiences and why she is passionate about the risk management industry.

Listen for Tram's advice for students learning about Insurance and risk management.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is one of the 2026 Spencer Scholars, Tram Nguyen. But first…

[:42] Webinars: Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now."

[:53] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."

[1:01] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders."

[1:12] Origami Risk returns on October 29th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require."

[1:21] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics."

[1:28] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On Nov. 10th, we will host a session about the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA) and an update on Federal developments.

[1:44] On Dec. 3rd, we will host a session about third-party litigation funding. Both of those sessions will be moderated by RIMS General Counsel Mark Prysock. He will be our guest next week on RIMSCast. Visit https://www.rims.org/Webinars to register.

[1:59] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:18] On with the Show! Our guest today wowed the heck out of me while she was on stage receiving her honor at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala in September. Tram Nguyen was one of two Spencer Scholars honored this year.

[2:34] Tram is from Vietnam. She is currently wrapping up her studies for an MS in Financial and Enterprise Risk Management at UConn, and she is an incoming risk analyst at BNBuilders in California.

[2:48] Tram started in a rural area in Vietnam and worked her way up to being one of the rising stars of the risk profession.

[3:01] Tram was just as warm and fun onstage as she is in this interview. I think you're going to learn a lot, not just about her life but also why she's so comfortable on stage, how her personal philosophy guides her risk philosophy, and more. Let's get to it!…

[3:23] Interview! Tram, thank you so much for joining us here on RIMScast!

[3:32] Tram feels humbled because so many talented professionals and great industry leaders she admires have been on the RIMScast podcast. She thanks Justin for inviting her.

[3:52] Justin saw Tram on stage as a Spencer Scholar at the Spence Funding Their Future Gala at the Waldorf Astoria on September 17th. Not only did she receive a wonderful scholarship and honor, but she delivered a memorized speech about herself. Tram says she practiced a lot.

[4:26] Tram wrote the speech, and she knew what she wanted to say, so it was easier to remember everything. Justin says when he had to give a toast at his daughter's birthday party, he still needed his lines. Justin says Tram set the bar very high.

[5:00] Tram says she is comfortable as a presenter. She was an emcee in Vietnam. When she first went on stage, she was nervous, but the more she practiced and got used to the stage, the more confidence she got. She also does meditation. Mindfulness helps her focus and stay calm.

[5:59] Justin says he is glad to hear she felt that way. It takes time to develop those skills, but once you have them, you never want to be without them.

[6:13] On stage, Tram spoke of being a young professional in Vietnam and of building her career in the U.S. Tram says she learned to speak English about a year ago.

[6:42] Tram says that a few years ago, she didn't know she would be capable of speaking about risk management in English today. She says she learned that human potential is unlimited and nothing is impossible.

[7:12] Tram says she prepares for everything. She has a mindset that if someone can do something, she can do it, too, if she learns it. Tram says if she really wants to do something, she will find a way and try as many times as necessary until she gets it.

[7:29] Tram says before she came here, a year ago, she didn't have international schooling in Vietnam because her family was very poor. She went to a traditional rural public high school, three hours away from Ho Chi Minh City.

[7:48] Tram went to Ho Chi Minh City and started to learn English. Mostly, she studied English through music and movies, but she didn't use it daily in Vietnam.

[8:05] When Tram came to the U.S. a year ago, she started using English daily. She understood around 30 to 40% of the lectures at school. She emailed her professor for advice on how to succeed in this course as an international student with English as a second language.

[8:33] Tram received guidance that she followed very seriously. She recorded each lecture. She studied a lot. She put herself out there and went to a lot of work events to practice her English.

[8:51] Tram adopts new vocabulary words every day. She says her English skills have improved a lot. She says now she can understand 95 to 98% of the conversation. She is still studying and improving every day.

[9:46] Justin asks how Tram learned about risk management and wanted to pursue a career in it. Tram says she started to learn about it when she was working at a bank in Vietnam, serving many clients. Insurance was always an important part of her KBI there.

[10:02] Tram received a lot of training so she could consult with clients and sell them insurance products. Risk management was also a part of her work, especially in areas like anti-money laundering, investment consultation, and compliance.

[10:20] Tram says that at the time, the insurance and risk management industry in Vietnam was still relatively young and underdeveloped. Tram didn't even realize back then that risk management was an industry.

[10:34] Tram says that after working for a few years with clients and the situations she encountered, she saw many clients' companies go bankrupt because they didn't know how to manage risk well.

[10:51] Tram realized she needed to understand risk management much more deeply if she wanted to become a trusted advisor and help her clients make better decisions.

[11:03] Tram also says it is difficult to find people in Vietnam who have strong technical skills and deep knowledge in finance and risk management. That became one of her motivations to study abroad and learn from a developed country, like the U.S., and fill that knowledge gap.

[11:23] Tram says when she came to the U.S., she got involved in many events, conferences, and workshops related to risk management. She was doing her master's program, connecting with people in the industry, and she realized the potential of this field and how special this industry is.

[12:00] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information.

[12:16] Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spin-off show, RIMScast Canada video podcast.

[12:25] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[12:40] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd.

[12:58] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[13:11] Let's Return to Our Interview with 2026 Spencer Scholar Tram Nguyen!

[13:23] Tram says she went to college at the University of Economics Ho Chi Minh City, a public university in Vietnam. It is very strong in economics.

[13:41] Tram says when she came to the U.S., she started at UConn for her master's degree. She started to learn about risk management and the Spencer Educational Foundation through a professor at UConn. The professor had sent out an email about Spencer Scholarships.

[14:13] Tram says this is her last semester. She will graduate in December. She is employed at BNBuilders as a risk intern, working remotely during school. After her graduation, she will move to California in December for full-time work. Her title will change from risk intern to risk analyst.

[14:47] Justin says, You're a young person from a rural town in Vietnam who is in Connecticut and will eventually start a career in California in one of the emerging professions here in the U.S. That's such a wonderful story.

[15:02] Tram says she truly didn't imagine it. Even her mother says she couldn't believe that someone from their family could work in the U.S., get on a stage in New York City, and give a speech. Her family cried after seeing her speech.

[15:37] Tram says that in her programs she had learned a lot about how to manage different types of risk, but she didn't understand how to apply risk in reality, how corporations and companies work on risk, and what the projects look like.

[15:57] Tram says that working at BNBuilders, it's fascinating to see how those concepts are applied in real life. Tram is taking a course on credit risk, learning how to calculate the probability of default.

[16:12] Tram says that at the company, they have a strong process set up for prequalifying subcontractors. One of the purposes is determining where subcontractors can qualify for the SDI insurance program.

[16:28] That experience at BNBuilders helped Tram to learn about how BNBuilders' financial analysts review their financial statements and determine whether their financial capacity meets BNBuilders' requirements.

[16:51] Tram says that at BNBuilders, she had the opportunity to go to a job site of a $400 million Life Science project in San Diego and saw a huge, beautiful building being constructed. She saw the laboratories where scientists will conduct research and develop new drugs.

[17:23] Tram says she thought of how cool that is, when a company can turn empty land into a complex, a place for people to live, to work, and to create value for society. Tram found it incredibly inspirational. It gave her motivation and more appreciation for what she does.

[17:56] One More Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's applications are open for undergraduate scholarships, and they will close on January 15th, 2027. Scholarship awardees will be notified around May 21st.

[18:] Full-time Master's scholarships also have a deadline of January 15th, 2027. Awardees will be notified around May 21st. Part-time Master's scholarships also have a deadline of January 15th, 2027. Awardees will be notified around May 21st.

[18:36] Pre-dissertation Ph.D. Candidates, Doctoral Candidates, and Pre-instructor of Practice scholarships may begin applying on December 1st, 2026. The Deadline is March 1st, 2027. Awardees will be notified around May 21st.

[18:54] In addition to general Spencer Scholarships, all students who apply for a Spencer Scholarship will automatically be considered for one of many named scholarships. For more information, check out https://www.spencered.org/scholarships and the link in this episode's show notes.

[19:11] Let's Conclude Our Dialog with 2026 Spencer Scholar Tram Nguyen!

[19:37] Tram says that when she started her program, she was looking for scholarships. She learned that Spencer was a scholarship program for students in risk management. She wanted the scholarship for her tuition.

[19:52] Tram tried every possible way to increase her chances of receiving a scholarship. She took a four-hour train trip to attend Risk Manager on Campus at UConn to meet Ken Goldstein from Spencer. For an hour, she talked to many risk professionals and then took the train back.

[20:31] Tram says she went everywhere to make herself more visible. She earned certifications to strengthen her resume and improve her ability for the scholarship application. She focused on risk management and insurance in almost every aspect of her life.

[20:52] Tram says the more she learned about this industry and the more people she met, the more she loved it. She says she actually got rejected from the Spencer scholarship. When she received the rejection email, she was upset.

[21:12] Tram says when she looked back at everything she had done and how much the scholarship had already changed her direction, her career, and her personal growth, and given her so much motivation to be involved in this industry, she saw she had gained so much.

[21:34] Tram says she thought maybe the scholarship had already done its mission. But she didn't give up. She applied again and received the internship offer. Then Spencer announced a new program, Spencer's Success Stipend. Tram applied again, and this time she received it.

[22:00] Tram says she volunteered with Spencer at RISKWORLD and met a team. Mostly, she works with Daniel Perez of Spencer. BNBuilders sent their job posting to Spencer, and Daniel connected it with UConn. That's how Tram found her internship.

[23:01] Justin says Daniel is a good friend. Daniel connected Justin with several people through Spencer and was able to get some of the guests on the show. Justin gives a big thank you to Daniel.

[23:52] Justin asks about Tram's future. Tram says data, technology, and AI are evolving very quickly. Tram especially enjoys learning how to leverage AI to turn her ideas into reality and using AI as her assistant.

[24:08] Tram lets AI do what it is good at: execution, building things, and handling repetitive work. For herself, Tram wants to focus on developing as much understanding and knowledge as possible about how things work across different industries.

[24:25] Tram says if it is possible for her to understand the big picture, then when she understands how everything works and how different pieces connect to each other, she can think more easily about how to improve it or create something new.

[24:47] Tram says when she has a new idea, she can explain it to AI and give it instructions, and let AI and other resources, if necessary, execute the work. After that, she will review the outcome, make changes, polish it, and finalize it. Creativity and how to leverage AI is her focus.

[25:24] Tram shares advice: "I would say just keep doing what you love and work hard on your dreams. Then everything will happen. I am still a very young professional, still working, still a student, and still trying to improve myself every day."

[25:44] Tram says, "I hope everybody out there will see this as a little bit of motivation or aspiration for them to work harder and strive together." Tram thanks Justin for having her on RIMSCast today. Sharing her stories and talking to Justin is a pleasure.

[26:08] Special thanks to Spencer Scholar Tram Nguyen. She seems like a wonderful and grateful individual, and we look forward to having a front seat to all her success in risk management.

[26:21] We didn't talk about it in this interview, but Tram Nguyen is also a RIMS-CRMP holder. Do you feel like an underachiever yet? Her RIMS-CRMP Story will be available soon, and a link will be on this episode's show notes.

[26:32] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[26:49] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[27:06] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[27:20] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[27:31] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Oct. 29, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes from 2026:

"Giving Risk Professionals Agency with Lawanda 'Elle Michell' Hall"

"Choosing the Challenge with Spencer Board Chair Johnell Holly"

"Taking on Global Leadership in Insurance with Sierra Signorelli, Spencer Funding Their Future Honoree"

"Spencer Funding Their Future Honoree Marya Propis: From Industry Leader to Talent Champion"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest: Tram Thuy Nguyen, RIMS-CRMP

Spencer Scholar at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala 2026

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Mark Romig about a wide variety of topics, including International Podcast Day, September 30th, Mark's journey as an NFL announcer for the New Orleans Saints, having picked it up from his father Jerry, who announced for 44 years without missing a game, and facts about the great City of New Orleans and its deep and rich history, including Cajun culture and cuisine. RISKWORLD 2027 will be held in April in New Orleans. Mark shares tips on food to enjoy and culture to experience in the city. Mark offers his opinions about the ISO 31000 risk framework and its adaptability and flexibility across industries. He shares his insights on hosting a podcast and letting guests tell their stories.

Listen for Mark's observations on what makes a great risk manager.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. This is our special International Podcast Day episode. We are delighted to be joined by Mr. Mark Romig.

[:38] Mark calls the games for the New Orleans Saints and is the host of The Mark Romig Show, which you can find on the Love NOLATV channel on YouTube.

[:47] Ahead of RISKWORLD 2027, being held in his hometown of New Orleans, we will discuss local cuisine, why New Orleans is such a great place for RISKWORLD, and his ERM philosophies. But first…

[:59] Webinars: On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now."

[1:12] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now."

[1:22] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."

[1:31] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders."

[1:42] Origami Risk returns on October 29th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require."

[1:51] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." Visit https://www.rims.org/Webinars to register.

[2:01] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:19] RISKWORLD 2027 will be held in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Registration opens on November 4th. Visit https://www.rims.org/RISKWORLD to register.

[2:32] Our guest today is one of the top ambassadors of New Orleans. I'm talking about Mark Romig, best known as the announcer for the New Orleans Saints. He does the play-by-play, and as you will hear from this International Podcasting Day episode, he's got the broadcasting voice.

[2:51] We will discuss why New Orleans is a perfect location for RISKWORLD 2027 and how RISKWORLD attendees should prepare for such a fantastic destination. We will discuss Mark's broadcasting legacy and what it takes to host his show, and his interview style and methods.

[3:12] We're going to learn about his risk management philosophies. It's all going to be in this episode of RIMScast. Justin explains that this episode was recorded at lunch at Louisiana Joe's, in Oceanside, New York, dining Cajun to get into the spirit of RISKWORLD 2027.

[3:45] First, Mark has a special thank you: "I want to thank the great folks at Louisiana Joe's for hosting Justin today, and I'll have to put my order in. Do you all do take-out?"

[4:00] Interview! Live from Oceanside, New York, Mark Romig. Welcome to RIMScast!

[4:16] Justin is recording from his favorite restaurant, Louisiana Joe's, in Oceanside, New York. He has the St. Charles Chicken Sandwich. Mark would like to reach through the screen and take some to New Orleans. Justin says this is a hopping place. It's great!

[5:03] Mark says he will be at RISKWORLD 2027 in New Orleans. Mark suggests meeting Justin there at one of the many New Orleans restaurants.

[5:37] Mark's father, Jerry Romig, was in broadcasting for many years. He became well known in the community by being the Saints announcer for 44 years inside the Superdome and before that at the Tulane Stadium. He never missed a game for 446 consecutive games.

[6:21] Mark picked it up after his father retired in 2013, so this is his 14th season with the Saints in the Superdome. There has been a Romig voice in the stadium for 58 years. Jerry and Mark both have a deviated septum that gives them the same tonal quality.

[6:54] Mark emulates Jerry's first-down calls. That's his homage to his Dad, to keep that same call going.

[7:54] Mark says there are many aspects of New Orleans that appeal to everyone. He believes that it is the center of culture in this part of the world for history, music, food, and architecture. New Orleans is very walkable. Everything is concentrated. You don't need to take long bus rides.

[8:34] Mark says, once you're in the central core of New Orleans, everything is within walking distance. The Morial Convention Center, where RISKWORLD will be, is right along the Great Mississippi Riverfront.

[8:51] Mark says New Orleans has hundreds of great restaurants and over 40 museums, including the National World War II Museum. People come for important meetings like RISKWORLD or just to come on vacation.

[9:30] Mark says the Morial Center has recently completed upgrades and renovations for over $600 million. It is one of the larger meeting facilities in the U.S. [9:49] We keep saying, "New Orleans is built to host. We have all the technology. We have all the services. We have all the things that make a meeting complete in one place. It's very much a walkable city."

[10:18] Mark says New Orleans is charming. It's very hospitable. It's not uncommon to be walking down the street, and you may not know the person walking toward you, but that person's going to say, "How's your Mama?" or "How are you doing?" or "Good morning."

[10:31] Mark says we just enter into conversations with strangers because we're a very welcoming type of community. Everyone is welcome here.

[11:03] Mark talks about what you should be looking for on a menu in New Orleans. Red beans and rice is a staple, with sausage or ham, and the spices that go into it.

[11:25] Look for Creole foods like shrimp etouffee, crawfish etouffee, fresh seafood like trout, redfish, or any one of the great delicacies coming out of the Gulf, boiled, baked, sauteed, or fried. We have oyster soup, fried oysters, and charbroiled oysters.

[12:05] Mark says, "I'm making myself hungry now, watching you eat and thinking about food! As soon as this interview is over, I'm going out to have lunch." Justin says he's never had Louisiana-style oysters, but he will.

[12:34] Justin says RISKWORLD has a lot of international attendees, and RIMS has a very sizeable Canadian membership. Justin asks about the connection between French-Canadian Acadians and Louisiana's Cajun culture.

[12:54] Mark says a very important group of Canadians migrated down into Louisiana over 100 years ago from the Nova Scotia area and settled in the Southwest area of Louisiana. Many Louisianians take regular trips back to Canada to see family members still living there.

[13:28] There are parts of Louisiana that still speak Canadian French. It's a community outside of Canada that Louisiana has become to Canada. We love our Canadian visitors, and we look forward to hosting them.

[13:52] Mark says we have a strong French Consul General here. He mentions the Louisiana CODOFIL Program, which teaches students French in many Louisiana schools.

[14:16] Mark says the Cajun French has its own culture and its own joie de vivre, as well as its own food creations. Louisiana is one of the most international states in the U.S.

[14:52] Mark says you should not leave New Orleans without having café au lait and beignets. There are many places you can find those.

[15:00] You probably will want to try them at Café du Monde, right off of Jackson Square, along the Mississippi River. Get your order and then go sit by the river and watch that river traffic. It's a magnificent way to experience the Mississippi River.

[15:34] Mark says Jackson Square is the most historic part of New Orleans, with the St. Louis Cathedral, the second-oldest basilica in the U.S.

[15:44] Justin has been to Café du Monde, and he suggests you will need to build in some time for standing in line. Mark says the line moves pretty fast. He also says don't wear dark-colored clothing because the powdery sugar tends to go everywhere.

[16:07] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and this is a last call for registration!

[16:23] Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[16:29] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information.

[16:42] Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month.

[16:51] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[17:06] Let's Return to Our Interview with the Host of the Mark Romig Show, Mark Romig!

[17:21] This episode is coming out just before International Podcast Day, September 30th. Mark is a podcast host. This is the second RIMScast official International Podcast Day episode. Justin says, we're very glad that Mark is here.

[17:51] Justin asks how Mark puts his own stamp on announcing sports. Mark says you develop a certain way of bringing the fans into the game by punching certain calls. In calling the Saints games in the Superdome, the NFL allows the hometown announcer to punch certain things.

[18:13] Mark says he is a fan, but he has to be somewhat neutral. He took what his Dad did for 44 years, and he built on some of his calls. That was important. He has a couple of calls he developed himself. He thinks of his Dad as the GOAT, and he's keeping the seat warm.

[18:48] Mark says his Dad would do the voice at home, talking about what happened at the game. He was on the local NBC affiliate for many years and developed his own tone. Mark says, even though we're from New Orleans, hearing his television voice a lot affected how we speak.

[19:21] Mark says, depending on what party he's at, he might kind of drift into a New Orleans accent, but at the stadium or on his podcast, he uses the voice you hear now.

[19:40] Justin says he often hosts the podcasts in the confines of his home, but when his kids hear him using the RIMScast voice, they tell him to stop doing the RIMScast voice. They hear it and think he's about to get angry. Mark leaves his voice at the Dome.

[20:37] Mark is also the stadium voice for the Bayou Classic and the All-State Sugar Bowl. He has his podcast, the Mark Romig Show, on the LoveNOLATV YouTube channel. Mark has had guests Bryan Batt from Mad Men, Coach Kellen Moore from the Saints, and other personalities.

[21:29] Mark says we try to keep things on the positive side and talk about current events people can participate in. He says we try to uplift in our show. Justin talks about Mark's mother appearing on the show. Justin says the show promotes goodwill.

[22:22] Mark says we're doing it on a regional basis. They were picked up by the Gulf Coast Sports & Entertainment Network, reaching an audience along the Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama Gulf Coast.

[22:53] Justin talks about eating lunch and says the restaurant, Louisiana Joe's, is always hopping. As far as Justin knows, it's the only Cajun sandwich shop around him. There are a couple of crab places, but they don't hold a candle to Louisiana Joe's.

[23:44] Speaking of his podcast, Mark says if you bring on the right personality, you let them tell their story. Mark tries to minimize his involvement to give them time to speak about themselves and what makes them tick. He seeds a small question and lets them take it from there.

[24:16] Mark says he's learning so much. It's like going back to school when he's talking to these wonderful individuals about their work and their passion for what they do, giving them the space to be who they are.

[24:33] Mark looks at it as storytelling. In his tourism work, Mark tells the story. On his podcast, he enjoys his guests telling their stories.

[24:50] Justin said he had to learn early on to ask an open-ended question and just hang back and let the person open up a bit. Justin doesn't ask hard-hitting questions about current events; he asks about risk management.

[25:15] Mark says what RIMScast does is so important to the industry. It builds comfort so people can continue in their business and know they will be taken care of if anything should happen.

[25:31] Mark says in storytelling, people can find a lot in common if they just listen to people and understand where they're coming from. If I can build bridges, that's the key.

[25:45] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.

[26:06] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.

[26:14] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[26:27] Reach out to Ted Donovan at TDonovan@RIMS.org or reach out to Sales at Sales@RIMS.org. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[26:39] Let's Return to Our Interview with Mark Romig!

[26:49] Justin turns the conversation to risk management. He asks Mark which framework he would recommend, between the COSO Enterprise Risk Management Framework, the ISO 31000 Framework, or ISO standards, generally.

[27:14] Mark would lean toward ISO 31000 because of its flexibility and its applicability across different types of organizations and risk environments.

[27:25] Mark says he likes that it provides the principles and a framework for integrating risk management into decision-making without being overly prescriptive about how an organization must implement it.

[27:37] Mark says that adaptability is particularly valuable because effective risk management must reflect an organization's strategy, culture, and specific risk profile.

[27:50] Justin says he finds that answer incredibly insightful and he had no idea Mark was so well-versed in risk management.

[28:01] Mark says, "Because we love RIMS so much, I am reading up and ready." Justin suspects Mark of tearing into the RIMS whitepapers at https://www.rims.org/RiskKnowledge. Mark says, "Gary LaBranche is a good teacher; let me just tell you that."

[28:18] Mark is friends with RIMS CEO Gary LaBranche. In the 1990s, they both served on the International Board of Tau Kappa Epsilon, a collegiate fraternity founded in 1899. They served as International Chairman of the Board of Directors of Tau Kappa Epsilon

[28:50] Mark and Gary remained friends. Mark saw him last month in New Orleans at the international conclave for Tau Kappa Epsilon. They toasted their friendship.

[29:09] Justin says he saw Gary the night before this recording at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City.

[29:26] Justin asks Mark how viable ISO 31000 remains as a Framework for organizations looking to establish a consistent enterprise-wide approach to risk management.

[29:41] Mark says ISO 31000 remains highly viable because it provides organizations with a common language and principles for thinking about risk but without prescribing a one-size-fits-all methodology.

[29:55] Mark says its real value is in helping risk management become integrated into decision-making and organizational processes, rather than functioning as a stand-alone exercise.

[30:06] Mark says the framework gives organizations a strong foundation while still allowing them to adapt their approach to their own strategy, their own culture, and their own risk environment. Justin agrees. Mark stresses adaptability and flexibility.

[30:54] Mark says the strongest risk professionals need a combination of analytical skills, business acumen, and communication skills.

[31:08] You have to be able to understand complex risks, then you have to translate them into language that business leaders can act on, and then build relationships across an organization so that risk management becomes part of everyday decision-making.

[31:26] Mark says, most importantly, you need curiosity. You have to keep learning. The environment changes all the time. The risk landscape is constantly changing. Keep asking the questions.

[32:07] Mark reads the newspaper every day. He's curious about not only what's happening in New Orleans and Louisiana, but also what's happening around the world. That allows him to communicate better when he's speaking with someone he's just met or someone in his office.

[32:25] Mark reads the newspaper for his own edification. He likes being in the know. He says a good risk manager is a curious person.

[32:55] Mark talks about risk management for the Saints. You start with the Senior Vice President of Finance, responsible for the safety and welfare of the business enterprise.

[33:18] The General Manager, Mickey Loomis, is concerned about the risk of the entire organization, as is the President of the organization, Dennis Lauscha, and Mrs. Benson, the owner. It's her club. It's her asset, and she's always concerned about the risks that are involved.

[33:38] The Assistant Equipment Manager makes sure that the equipment is in the best shape possible. And the Trainers; everyone has a role in the risk enterprise. Everyone should be aware that what they do affects the health and safety of the entire organization.

[34:03] Walt Leger, President and CEO, New Orleans & Company, is the uber risk manager. A lot of people have the responsibility. It all flows up to the top person, the President and CEO.

[34:29] Everyone needs to be aware of where they fit in the risk equation and do their jobs and lessen the risk.

[34:42] Justin says this has been one of my favorite episodes: International Podcast Day, with Mark Romig.

[34:54] Mark says about attending RISKWORLD 2027: I would ask people to do a little reading ahead. Those who have been to New Orleans know our deep history and the rich culture. If it's your first time, go to http://neworleans.com/. It's a good one-stop shop for things about New Orleans.

[35:24] Mark says, read up on our musicians and our history, the architecture, and know that New Orleans is looking forward to welcoming RIMS back here. It's so important to our community to have you here. It's going to be a great, great session.

[35:43] Special thanks to the voice of the New Orleans Saints, Mr. Mark Romig, for joining us here on RIMScast for a very special International Podcast Day episode! I look forward to seeing him at RISKWORLD 2027.

[35:58] Check out the Mark Romig Show on @LoveNOLATV on YouTube. If you happen to attend a Saints game, tell Mark that you heard him here on RIMScast.

[36:07] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[36:26] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[36:42] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[36:56] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[37:08] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

Louisiana Joe's

Mark Romig Show | LoveNolaTV

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026

"The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Oct. 29, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Broadcasting Captive Wisdom with James Swanke"

"Risk and Leadership Patterns with Super Bowl Champion Ryan Harris"

"Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau"

"Sports, Spotlight, and Risk Leadership with Rich Lenkov, Founder and CEO of SERMA"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest: Mark Romig, Announcer, New Orleans Saints

Host: The Mark Romig Show, LoveNolaTV (YouTube)

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Roy Hock about "Future-proofing" a risk program and what it means. They discuss energy awareness and its importance, especially for an energy company. Roy tells of the insurance career journey that led him to Valero. He explains some of the products Valero provides. Roy tells how his Risk team mitigates risk for Valero. He explains how he manages Valero's captive insurance company. More than ever, there are regulatory risks that need to be mitigated where possible.

Roy speaks of the South Texas RIMS Chapter and its engagement programs, including a shooting event and golf events.

Listen for Roy's advice for young risk professionals who want to become strategic risk leaders over the next 10 years.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our topics are energy awareness and future-proofing a risk program. Our guest is Roy Hock, Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance at Valero. But first…

[:45] RIMS-CRMP: RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification.

[:57] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and to understand how the RIMS-CRMP is shaping the future of risk management.

[1:07] A link to Certification Week is in this episode's show notes. You can also find it at https://www.rims.org/Webinars.

[1:14] Webinars: There are lots more RIMS Webinars coming up. On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now."

[1:27] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now".

[1:37] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight".

[1:46] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders".

[1:57] Origami Risk returns on October 29th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require".

[2:06] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics". Visit https://www.rims.org/Webinars to register.

[2:17] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:36] On with the Show! Our guest today is Roy Hock, the Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance at Valero, one of the world's largest oil refineries. We will discuss what it takes to future-proof Valero's risk program, and we will discuss Energy Awareness Month in October.

[3:08] You may know Roy from his presence in the RIMS Houston Chapter. He is a former president of that chapter, and you probably saw him at the RIMS Texas Regional in 2026.

[3:23] Announcement: The speaker's views are his own, and not necessarily the views of Valero.

[3:29] I'm looking forward to hearing how he manages risk for Valero, so let's get to it!

[3:34] Interview! Roy Hock, welcome to RIMScast!

[3:48] Roy started working for an insurance company right out of school. Most of his career has been in Houston. For the last six years, he has been in San Antonio at Valero.

[4:03] Roy shares his early career path: underwriting, reinsurance, broker. Then he got his ARM. One of his friends was looking for a risk manager for a startup in Houston. Roy took the opportunity. He loved it until it was sold.

[4:55] Roy moved on to another job. After a couple of years, Valero approached him, looking for a risk manager with experience in the oil and gas industry, for a job in San Antonio. Roy said yes. It's a wonderful city. He was very excited to be given the opportunity.

[5:21] Roy says, six years later, he's Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance, and loving every minute of it.

[5:52] Roy says his work days are varied. Every day is an exciting new challenge. Roy oversees captive, casualty insurance, directors and officers insurance, and all other types of insurance. He works in a large team and is often the backup when people are out. He's keeping up his skills.

[6:27] Roy also oversees the Risk Information Management System. Part of his team focuses on that, and he helps support them.

[6:38] Roy says it's a big organization of 10,000 people, and there's always something happening. You never know what you're going to get from day to day.

[6:48] Justin says he and Roy met right after RISKWORLD for a session with Origami Risk, "Future-Proofing Your Risk Program". Justin wanted to extend the dialog with Roy with Energy Awareness Month coming up in October.

[7:06] Justin asks how important Energy Awareness Month is at Valero. Roy says every minute of every day is about energy awareness.

[7:24] Valero is a refiner. They buy crude and refine it into jet fuel, diesel, and unleaded gas. They also produce ethanol and renewable diesel. They have their hands in a lot of things, all geared to moving people around the world.

[7:52] Valero is always looking at how to create efficiencies and keep costs down. Energy is a big piece of that. They are in Texas, where wind and solar are big. Valero is a big energy consumer.

[8:10] They try to keep the energy costs down and build efficiencies within the operation, not only to keep costs down but also to be more self-sustaining so they're taking less off the grid.

[8:47] Roy says a risk manager not only has to understand the insurance side and the claims side, and how they interrelate, but you have to understand them in the context of your business.

[8:58] You need to know how you make money, where the risks are, the trends you see, and help the organization identify those trends and find ways to address them when possible, via a captive or an outside carrier or internally with programs to mitigate risks and keep losses down.

[9:23] Roy says if you don't understand the business, you can't do that very effectively. You need to understand the business. You don't need to know all the details of how a business works, but you need to know a very strong baseline and know who does know the answers.

[9:38] Roy says creating that internal network is just as important as having the external network you get in the insurance world. You need to sit in between those two.

[9:50] Roy has been at Valero for six years and two months. He came from an oil and gas background, on the insurance side of the business. He knew how the flow worked and what all the pieces did. Even after six years at Valero, Roy is still learning something every day.

[10:22] Roy says it took a good year or two to feel comfortable "speaking" the business. He got there by listening to executives talk to carriers, by listening to earnings calls, and by listening to businesses asking Valero for things. Roy loves being a learner.

[10:51] That's how Roy has gotten a baseline comfort with the business, and he knows who to ask when there are specific questions.

[11:05] Roy has four people on his team, acting as internal support on top of other things they do for the company. The broad risk management group is around 20 people, including an internal TPA and risk engineers with niche knowledge in fire, water, and protection.

[12:04] Roy says most companies don't do that. It's just how Valero developed over the years.

[12:21] Justin asks what future-proofing a risk program means to Roy. Roy says it's staying on the pulse of what's going on in the business and in the insurance commercial markets, and maintaining a strong network across the board. Use that information. Does this apply to Valero?

[12:58] Roy says you have to look at the workforce. Some people may retire. What does that mean? What will we look like in five years? Roy says we do a five-year team outlook for the knowledge transfer. What's on the horizon?

[13:27] Twenty years ago, cyber was a thing, but it wasn't a real thing. Now, it's a bigger thing. It's something we have to look at. It's been insane. Roy asks, What's this AI going to do to us?

[13:47] Roy says a lot of that is coming from internal questions and resources. People from different departments bring questions. Roy says it's going to RIMS conferences and learning what's going on in the world, in the RIMS space, and in the technology space.

[14:07] Roy says bringing all that together is what helps future-proof us.

[14:39] Roy says he thinks all risk managers inherently do that. We're always trying to stay ahead of the ball. They want to stay at the forefront of what's going on in the world, so they can address it before it becomes a problem. That's the key. You're trying to address it.

[14:59] If it is a business decision, bring to bear your business knowledge in discussions: If we do this, this is what could happen, and this is how we can mitigate it. Do you want to take the cost of that mitigation? Roy says that having those discussions helps a lot, as well.

[15:21] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open.

[15:38] Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[15:44] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information.

[16:01] Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month.

[16:10] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[16:23] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! Member-only Registration will open on November 4th, and General Registration will open on December 2nd.

[16:41] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[16:54] Let's Return to Our Interview with Roy Hock of Valero!

[17:01] Justin asks if electric vehicles (EVs) are a risk for Valero. Roy answers that Valero is a supply-and-demand organization. Futurists have predicted we would hit peak oil and we would not need oil. That has not come to pass.

[17:40] Valero's philosophy is to do what is right, what makes profit for shareholders, and what's good for the world as they see it. So far, that's been doing very well for them. Valero is proud of what they've accomplished.

[18:03] Roy says Valero has done things internally that people don't see to bring down its carbon footprint. Some regulatory switches have caused Valero to put those numbers forward. Roy says Valero is proud of those numbers and that their metrics are industry-leading.

[19:06] Roy says Valero has a good story to tell and now they are telling it. It has been interesting. Some things they have been doing; some things have been in their plans for 20 years, as part of trying to run a good business. They've been doing all the right things, all along.

[19:43] Roy says he thinks Valero's culture of humility is helping to future-proof the business. Interns and new hires seem to love Valero. Numbers are good. Retention numbers are really good. If young employees are unhappy with a company's culture, they look for something else.

[20:31] Roy says, not only do we compensate them well, but also the culture keeps them engaged and wanting to work for us. Someone retired from Roy's team after 35-plus years. Roy says that is very common there. People like to work at Valero. It's a good spot.

[20:53] Justin asks how geopolitical risks affect Roy's risk work at Valero. Roy says Valero has been forced to step up and participate in new ways recently. Around the world, regulations have changed. It's hard to plan a business around regulations that are here today and gone tomorrow.

[21:47] Roy says they have to be at the table to try to mitigate that risk. Roy says "100%" there is more volatility on the regulatory side than when Valero started. The regulatory environment across the world swings back and forth. Valero is just trying to run a good business.

[22:26] Roy says one side of the aisle doesn't like it, and the other side of the aisle doesn't like it for a completely different reason.

[22:35] Valero is having to come sit at the table more often than ever to try to make sure their voice is heard and that what they're trying to do is coming across, to try to mitigate that risk as much as possible. It's not an insurance risk but a legal-type risk that Valero has to address.

[23:08] Roy says that Risk has the attention of the C-Suite. In Roy's experience, even at previous companies, insurance is one of the big "spends" of a company. It's the Risk Management Group's role to mitigate risks, process claims, and make sure they stay under control.

[23:43] Roy says that through Legal, or Treasury, or directly to the CFO, there's usually a line of sight to the C-Suite and the Board. Roy says sometimes you're placing insurance for the Board. Roy helps his VP get ready for the annual update to the Board and the big renewal cycles.

[24:15] Roy says, in the renewal cycle, if Risk sees something on the horizon, it's easy for them, because of the networks they've built, to go to the C-Suite and communicate those risks or options to them. It's periodic. It happens all the time.

[24:43] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[25:02] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[25:16] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[25:35] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[25:44] Let's Return to Our Interview with Roy Hock of Valero!

[25:50] Justin and Roy talk about Roy's membership in the South Texas RIMS Chapter. Roy is the former President of the RIMS Houston Chapter. He says the South Texas RIMS Chapter is fantastic.

[26:18] Roy says there are a lot of businesses coming into Texas, which means a lot of risk functions are moving in. The different chapters are growing. Everybody is doing a good job keeping their members engaged. They keep growing and finding new avenues of engagement.

[26:40] Roy says 32 years ago the South Texas RIMS Chapter led the way and started a shooting event in the Spring. Roy was a traditional golfer in Houston. Roy says the shooting event is awesome. They still do a golf event as well. Valero is a big sponsor of these types of events.

[27:03] Roy says his boss, Jeremy Bergeron, is a former President of the local chapter. Jeremy reports to the Board annually. Everybody on the team is hands-on, periodically touching base with the different groups.

[27:34] Roy says Valero has a long history with and a love of RIMS. Often, the South Texas RIMS Chapter gets invites to play golf with different vendors, and Valero has been very good about supporting that.

[27:52] Instead of chapter members going, they'll bring in students from St. Mary's University to attend these events as the future of the risk management industry. It's important to have them get engaged in these types of events, so the chapter helps support them and brings them in.

[28:12] Roy sits on the St. Mary's Risk Advisory Board. It's been a pleasure. He loves it, and he says these kids are great. He says we have great future people coming into the industry.

[28:30] Roy describes managing a captive for Valero. He has always been interested in how insurance companies function and work. When Valero approached him, it was for risk management and running a captive insurance company. He said, Sign me up!

[28:58] Roy says it's great. Day to day, they're doing everything an insurance company does. They talk to regulators, they have managers, they have investments, and all the different things that accompany an insurance company.

[29:09] Roy says Valero's captive is a company within a company, and an insurance company within a non-insurance-company environment. They insure Valero. Roy has a CPA on staff who is very helpful. She came from Valero's Accounting side, so she knows their needs.

[29:39] Roy says that's one of the unique things about a captive. You need to be able to integrate with your parent company to consolidate everything correctly. The CPA is the bridge that does that for the captive. She has been very helpful to Roy and has helped him learn about it.

[29:55] Roy says he didn't have a strong finance background. He knew basic accounting, but running a company is a little bit different. You need to know a little bit more. The CPA has helped Roy get educated on that. Accounting rules evolve, and regulations change all the time.

[30:21] Roy says he likes policies and insurance. Reading a policy may not be for everybody, but it is for Roy, so it has been great. He gets to generate policies, which is even more fun. He gets to interact with a lot of fun and exciting people at Valero and outside.

[31:08] Roy says they've redomiciled their captive to Texas. It's a growing captive, so there are a lot of moving parts, like a startup. He has to wear many hats. Valero allows Roy the opportunity to engage in helping with the process of pushing legislation. He likes the opportunity.

[32:00] Roy would advise young risk professionals coming out of schools today, already understanding policies and risk registers, to continue their education. Designations are important, including the RIMS-CRMP. Roy got the ARM before the RIMS-CRMP was available.

[33:10] Roy says things are changing constantly. When Roy took the ARM, there was no cyber piece. There is a piece on cyber now. It's a dynamic and ever-changing industry. Always keep your education up. Roy also advises that you need to build your network.

[33:38] Roy says in insurance and risk management, and in your organization, you need to build your network so you can do your job and learn about what other people are doing in your organization and outside your organization.

[33:53] Going to conferences helps in ways you don't even understand. As an industry, risk stands out as being more personable. You have data, systems, and risks, but you layer a personal connection on top of all of it.

[34:23] Roy says a lot of students come out of school without a network. Roy tells his team to introduce these students to as many people as you can. Make sure that they get to all the conferences that they can. In the industry, we have a responsibility to help them with that.

[34:58] As new risk professionals join the workforce, Roy says they should know that the traditional industries are not going anywhere. They are still very valuable and have a lot of career "legs" in them. You can make a great career working at an energy or energy-related company.

[35:14] Roy says new risk professionals should keep an open mind to it and see what they like. As many pieces as there are on the insurance side, there are as many on the energy side. There are all types of energy and all types of places to play.

[35:35] Roy says to move around, learn about these different pieces, and see what speaks to you. If you don't like what you're doing, you're not going to do as good a job. If you like what you're doing, you're always going to push yourself to do the best job.

[35:33] Special thanks again to Roy Hock for joining us here on RIMScast! I've got a link in this episode's show notes to the on-demand video of "Future-Proofing Your Risk Program: Keeping Pace with Scale, Complexity, and Visibility," featuring Roy Hock and presented by Origami Risk.

[36:10] Visit https://www.rims.org/Webinars and scroll down the page to find it.

[36:14] Happy Energy Awareness Month!

[36:16] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[36:34] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[36:50] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[37:03] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[37:15] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

"Future-Proofing Your Risk Program: Keeping Pace with Scale, Complexity, and Visibility"

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All

"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026

"The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Oct. 29, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"From Wellhead to Burner Tip: Eric Lobser's ERM Journey"

"When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

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About our guest: Roy C. Hock, Director, Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance, Valero

October is Energy Awareness Month.

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Sal Lifrieri, former NYPD detective and director for NYC's Office of Emergency Management during the 9/11 attacks. Sal is the author of the new book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. As a security and counterterrorism expert, Sal Lifrieri draws on a 40-year career spanning homicide investigations, hostage negotiations, intelligence operations, emergency management, and corporate security. His experience offers timely lessons on how leaders can anticipate threats, respond decisively, and protect citizens during our most challenging and uncertain moments. Justin and Sal discuss practical, layered security for houses of worship, often involving volunteers, controlling access, and knowing who is entering the building, all while maintaining a spirit of welcome. They discuss what should happen well before a disruption to a service, what responses work if a person disrupts a service, and what roles different respondents, including law enforcement, can play. Sal points out that the best deterrent is intelligence information, and he advises how staff can get information before the service.

Listen for Sal's advice on security teams, pre-planning, and having a well-defined evacuation strategy.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Sal Lifrieri, a security and terrorism expert. We will discuss tips for how to keep houses of worship safe, especially during the High Holy Days. But first…

[:45] RIMS-CRMP: RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. There is a link to the events in this episode's show notes, including three free webinars. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification.

[1:02] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and understand how the RIMS-CRMP is shaping the future of risk management.

[1:13] A link to Certification Week is in this episode's show notes. You can also find it at https://www.rims.org/Webinars.

[1:19] Webinars: There are lots more RIMS Webinars coming up. On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal about Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."

[1:32] On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now."

[1:42] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now".

[1:52] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight".

[2:01] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders".

[2:13] Origami Risk returns on October 29th with a session that will be announced shortly.

[2:19] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics". Visit https://www.rims.org/Webinars to register.

[2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:48] On with the Show! Our guest today has 40 years of experience leading through high-pressure situations. He is a former New York Police Department Detective 1st Grade.

[3:00] He served on the department's elite Hostage Negotiation Team and later, the Protective Operations Unit within the Intelligence Division, overseeing Protective Intelligence and Threat Investigations for the Mayor of New York City.

[3:14] He is the author of a new book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. He is here to discuss safety precautions and preparedness for houses of worship.

[3:30] His name is Sal Lifrieri, and you may know him from his RIMS events appearances and sessions.

[3:37] This is going to be a really great dialog, not just for RIMS members, but also for the public, for those individuals who may not be an official risk manager for your house of worship but have to take the lead on ensuring the security and safety of your congregants. Let's get to it!

[3:58] Interview! Sal Lifrieri, welcome to RIMScast!

[4:19] Sal spent 20 years with the NYPD, from Patrol to Anti-crime to the Hostage Negotiation Team, which he regards as the highlight of his career. He went to the Intelligence Division, in charge of the Russian Organized Crime Project, then moved over to Protection.

[5:03] Sal says the Intelligence Division of the NYPD is modeled after the Secret Service. Half the house does Criminal and half the house does Protection. Sal moved to Protection and took over the Threat operations and Intelligence operations for the elected officials and the Mayor.

[5:23] Sal's final assignment was Mayor Giuliani. He took Emergency Management away from the Police Department and created a Mayoral Agency. About seven went over from the NYPD. [5:43] Sal says they sought to create the city's planning for any crisis or disaster. At the time, that was chemical and biological terrorism. They worked on the different threats that came through the city.

[6:00] In January of '01, Sal retired as a Director of Security and Intelligence Operations out of OEM and started a consulting career. 25 years later, he is still at it.

[6:24] Justin says that we're recording this in Early September, and this episode is being released a week after the 25th Anniversary of the September 11th terror attacks.

[6:39] Sal says this anniversary is going to be different, considering that it is 25 years, and with what's going on in the world, the different issues and the volatilities that exist, and the things that are occurring with synagogues and houses of worship across the country and the world.

[7:10] Sal says also, the fact that Rosh Hashanah starts on 9/11 is significant. That confluence of many things escalates the threat profile.

[7:40] Justin says, as a member of a synagogue, in the last 25 years at his temple, he has seen an armed guard outside during the High Holy Days. Justin is at a Reformed temple. For Hebrew School, a security guard checks parent IDs.

[8:06] Justin says, These are things they didn't have to worry about when he was a kid. Clearly, the risk threat has heightened. Sal agrees.

[8:22] Sal says the threat profile has increased, and something problematic is the availability of social media for children. Parents used to hide children from bad things in the world, but today everything is out there and open for discovery by children. Children are no longer as innocent.

[8:53] Justin asks about protection at houses of worship. Sal says you need concentric circles of perimeters, starting from the outside and working your way in. The protection starts weeks and months before any of these events take place.

[9:44] Start looking at inappropriate correspondence that may be coming in and things that are happening at other facilities around you. Look at the congregation. If your congregation has a high-profile individual, that person may be a target. There are several things you have to look at.

[10:12] That planning has to start very early. As you go from the very wide, you start bringing it down closer and closer. It's always great to be able to have law enforcement in front of you, whether a uniformed officer or even just a vehicle. It's definitely a deterrent.

[11:06] Justin says that most houses of worship do not have a dedicated risk manager. The person with that responsibility could be a facilities director, clergy, or a volunteer. He asks what people in that situation should assess first.

[11:37] Sal says people look at threat assessment as Voodoo. For personnel who don't have the expertise, law enforcement credential, or background, ask the building engineer or the guard, "If you were going to do something bad to this place, how would you do it?"

[12:24] Once you can convince them that you're not accusing them, it's incredible what they can tell you. Ask, "Applying common sense, what are those things that you think are problematic and worry about?" They can start developing ideas of what might work well.

[13:01] One of Sal's clients is a prominent synagogue in Manhattan. They were having planning meetings before the High Holy Days. One of the people on the security committee is a volunteer usher. He asked how we could check people in faster as they come in.

[13:26] Sal says you want that feedback. You want them to tell you how things are operating and what they are thinking about. Apply basic logic to what you think might be wrong and go with it. Justin suggests asking someone on the custodial staff because they know the building.

[14:05] Sal says the custodians are the people who, for the most part, get overlooked. They see what's lying on the desk or in the trash, such as inappropriate correspondence that came in. They're a critical element of who should be talked to in a team approach.

[14:33] Justin asks about doors or windows that don't secure properly, such as the shooting in Uvalde, Texas, where the shooter entered through a closed door that was supposed to be locked.

[15:03] Sal says don't rely on Security to give you the total picture. Go to the people using these things every day that can give you a good heads-up about what may be wrong.

[15:19] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[15:35] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[15:52] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information.

[16:10] Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month.

[16:18] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[16:31] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! RISKWORLD 2027 Member-only Registration will open on November 4th, and General Registration will open on December 2nd.

[16:49] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[17:03] Let's Return to Our Interview with Security Expert Sal Lifrieri!

[17:10] Justin asks about the balance of keeping a house of worship secure but also maintaining a spirit of openness, welcoming, and handicap accessibility.

[17:27] Sal says that's the biggest difficulty with any house of worship. You don't want to have the armed camp, yet you want the security. Trying to balance that is difficult. It's a matter of establishing the policies and protocols.

[17:50] Sal says one thing they've done at the synagogue in Manhattan is called the Trusted Traveler Program. If you're a member of the congregation, you have a ticket with a QR code and ID that you are the person on the ticket; you don't have to worry about magnetometers; you're in.

[18:22] If you're unknown, or don't have a ticket, you go to a Will Call window and go through better screening.

[18:32] If someone seems out of place, you can talk with them. Sal does security training programs, teaching that you can walk up to people and engage them in conversation. If they're up to no good, they will move on. If they're really lost, it becomes a great visitor interaction.

[19:38] From the security side, you're able to garner more intelligence information from that interaction to make your decision as to what you want to do. If you're just watching and you're not interacting with them, you have no idea what's going on.

[20:00] You want to make your determinations based on intelligence information you're going to garner. The only way you're going to get it is by interacting with that person.

[20:21] Justin asks about someone becoming disruptive during a service. What should staff and volunteers be trained to recognize in those first, critical moments? Sal says you should already have met with leadership and decided: If this happens, then what?

[21:09] Some rabbis have decided not to be physical. Let them say their piece and get it over with, and then ask them to leave, and hope they leave.

[21:32] Sal has seen situations where multiple people will infiltrate. One will get up and start yelling and protesting, and you get that person out, and another one pops up, and then another one pops up. It continues for five or six people.

[21:57] Sal says, going back to preplanning, was there any inappropriate correspondence that had come through? Was there anything on social media that indicated that there may be a problem?

[22:10] A lot of times, people will see things and say, it's a nut; leave it alone. They'll hit delete, or they'll throw the letter out, never understanding that these things have a natural progression.

[22:24] Sal quotes the U.S. Secret Service: Nobody just snaps. It's the slow progression of time, of failing to do things.

[22:34] Before they become operational, they're going to write an email; they're going to write a letter. There may be a phone call. There may be things that are going to give you an indication that we may have a problem here.

[22:47] Sal shares a case of a recent event where someone stood up, started protesting, and assaulted a congregant and a security officer. The after-action report determined he wasn't a member of the congregation, but it was an open, non-ticketed event, so he was able to get in.

[23:27] Sal thinks more investigation is needed. Did he just happen to show up, or was there some indication that this was going to happen? It comes down to your planning before the event.

[24:02] Sal says it comes down to organization. You can bring in a consultant like Sal, but the consultant is not going to be there all the time. You want to create a team, including IT.

[24:38] If something happens during a streamed service, Sal recommends shutting the stream off so supporters of the protesting individual or group don't get to watch it. You don't want the protest to go viral.

[24:57] Sal says a rabbi at one synagogue didn't want any comments to be posted. Sal wants to see the comments. If someone is posting death threats in the middle of a service, you want that intelligence information. You want to know what's going on in the background.

[25:28] It's dealing with the AV team, IT, the custodians, and the rabbi ahead of time. If we have to evacuate, where's the best place to go? How do we do it most effectively? It's creating that plan. If you're trying to create the response in the middle of a crisis, you're way too late.

[25:55] You have to have a plan ahead of time. You need to know the local law enforcement officers ahead of time. They need to understand you. You need to understand the rules they're under. With demonstrations, it's a very touchy situation. Demonstrators have a right to protest.

[26:18] Sal says, depending on what part of the country you are in, and what cities you are in, there are rules of engagement for law enforcement to follow. Sometimes, that's in direct conflict with what the facility wants.

[26:31] Those things have to be ironed out and discussed ahead of time so there's no mystery about what happens, if it happens.

[26:38] Justin says the protesting can happen outside the location, not inside. Once you're inside, your right to free speech is minimized.

[26:48] Sal says, you go through the process of explaining to them, especially if it's an open event; once they're in, and they've been disruptive, you're advising them they have to leave. If they don't, they violate a trespassing act and can be arrested for trespassing.

[27:16] That turns into a negotiation in the middle of a protest. In NYC, it involves multiple levels of law enforcement hierarchy and then giving the protester 30 minutes to end before effecting an arrest. In the middle of a service, dealing with all of this could become highly problematic.

[28:05] Sal says that what you really need to do is establish policies and protocols ahead of time. Identify what the potential risks are and the issues you may face. Overcome the hurdles of thinking it will never happen here and the budget.

[29:04] What's the risk, and how much money do we have to spend on it? The two have to balance each other.

[29:14] Sal is annoyed when consultants come in and identify outrageous risks with outrageous requirements that the client could never mitigate. It's a defense plan so that if anything went bad, the consultant can say they told you.

[29:45] You have to modify it into a reasonable plan. What are the risks that could seriously potentially happen? What are the things we need to do to mitigate them? How do we apply a budget effectively?

[30:02] Justin says these are great tips. We've got plenty of holidays coming up across all religions. This is an evergreen episode for us.

[30:24] Justin says the security for any house of worship relies heavily on volunteers a lot of the time. Is there a good practice or training sequence to hand off the baton from one volunteer to the next, especially if there's frequent turnover?

[30:40] Sal says, good communication, have volunteers on the security committee, and as they get their feet under them, get some practice, and do reviews after an event or High Holy Day: What did we do right, what did we do wrong, and what are the things we could do better?

[31:13] Pass the baton to the next person and work with them. Sal says his experience with that has been positive. You see them talking to each other in a concerted effort to make things better.

[31:44] Sal says a couple of years ago we used printed tickets, and now we deploy technology to track who's coming in and can marry that data with any inappropriate correspondence or investigations we may be incurring for people who have been identified as potential problems.

[32:17] Sal says being able to marry those two technologies together is something that has been growing in the right direction. As the risks evolve and become more prominent, facilities, especially houses of worship, are starting to take risks a little more seriously.

[32:38] Houses of worship are recognizing they need to step up and do things that could make them safer. At the same time, you develop an incredible sense of community when you have a bunch of people willing to get together, work towards a common goal, and learn something.

[33:00] Sal says unfortunately, these risks occur, but the positive side is that it's bringing the communities together and giving them the opportunity to tighten up their security.

[33:15] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[33:34] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[33:49] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[34:07] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[34:16] Let's Return to Our Interview with Security Expert Sal Lifrieri!

[34:31] Justin mentions that Sal has been a presence at RISKWORLD and local RIMS chapter events. Sal says he had the privilege to talk to a RIMS conference in Austin. It was a great experience. He also did a couple of talks for a local chapter.

[35:02] Sal says the RIMS organization is picture-perfect for education, training, and leadership for people in risk management. He says, you go to give a talk and inevitably, walk away learning things yourself that you can deploy. He says it's been great and looks forward to doing it again.

[35:35] Sal says when he talks at a RIMS event, the attendees are dealing with the risks; they want to hear about the risks, they want to hear about how we identify those risks, and what we do for mitigation of the risks.

[36:03] Sal says everybody likes the intelligence component behind it. How do you identify that risk? How do you find a needle in a haystack? You're talking to people who are doing this on a daily basis. They have a vested interest in what you're talking about.

[36:48] Justin talks about risk managers needing to hear the bad news so they can prevent it for their own organizations. Sal says they walk into the CEO's or CFO's office and have to tell them, these are the risks; these are the problems.

[36:59] The General Counsel doesn't want to hear it. The CFO doesn't want to pay for it. The COO sees it as another risk to worry about. The risk manager is in an incredibly difficult position. Everybody wants to duck and cover when they see the risk manager coming.

[37:25] Sal says, on the flip side, if they do the proper planning and proper mitigation, and enough resource allocation, and address all of that, then they wind up mitigating a lot of problems that could decimate a company. The message sometimes gets lost in the C-Suite.

[38:00] Justin mentions sports arenas. Sal says for a sports arena, you have 50, 60, or 100,000 people showing up for an event. How do you get them in? How do you get them out? Sal recalls the shooting in Las Vegas from the hotel. What was the planning for evacuating 20,000?

[38:59] Justin asks how to handle a situation that is outside. At the time of recording, they are in the pre-planning for 9/11 security. One of Sal's clients is the developer of the World Trade Center. They have four buildings on site. 100,000 people will attend the memorial service.

[33:33] Sal says they are also looking at the possibility of protests. How do you deal with protests with the potential to go violent? What's the continuity-of-operations plan? One of the benefits is that it's on Friday and there is not a lot of occupancy anticipated in the buildings.

[40:05] If something happens, what do you do with the people? Sal says when he was in OEM, there was a huge blizzard. The mayor decided to close everything down at 3:00 and send everybody home.

[40:27] They called the head of the MTA to come to City Hall. He told him he couldn't do it; they didn't have the staffing to move hundreds of thousands of people out of the city at 3:00 p.m. They would have needed a day's planning. 60,000 people would be left at Grand Central Station.

[41:09] Sal says you can make decisions and recommendations of what you want, but you have to think about secondary impacts. How do you move people? Where do you put them? You don't want a knee-jerk to one crisis to develop a second crisis.

[41:29] If you do it the first time, you'll do it the second time; if you do it the second, you'll do it the third. Then before you know it, you're so far downrange you forgot what started the first crisis, and you're trying to deal with something that should have never occurred.

[42:13] Sal advises on leadership in a crisis. One of the keys in his book, Leading Through Chaos, is, first, to check your ego at the door. You need the ability to stop and think. Sometimes people in leadership positions think that they have to have all the answers. That's not the case.

[42:45] A lot of times, you're dealing with situations that are totally foreign to you, that you've had no experience dealing with. Be willing to stop and take a deep breath. Take a good listen to what is going on.

[43:32] Everybody around you is willing to help. You have to be able to take that advice. That's what makes you a great leader: letting the people around you do what they do best.

[43:27] Sal, it's been an insightful discussion. I want to thank you for joining us here on RIMScast.

[43:36] Special thanks again to Sal Lifriere for joining us here on RIMScast! Remember to check out his book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. Hopefully, we see him at another RIMS event in 2027.

[43:52] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[44:10] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[44:25] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[44:40] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[44:52] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

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"25 Years of TRIA: Janice Ochenkowski on Risk, Resilience and Advocacy"

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About our guest: Sal Lifrieri, former NYPD detective and director for NYC's Office of Emergency Management.

Author: Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership

"Former NYPD Detective Talks Midtown Security."

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Janice Ochenkowski about her leadership, her career path, serving in RIMS External Affairs and later as RIMS President. They discuss the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the loss of lives, and the impact the attacks had on life in the U.S.

Justin and Janice talk about Janice's role in passing the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA).

They also address the financial and housing crisis of 2007-2008. Janice relates her testimony before Congress on various matters over the years, and how her RIMS leadership held her in her employment.

Listen for wisdom on adapting and changing with the times, and using leadership opportunities to help your business as you move your risk career forward.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski.

[:35] Janice will discuss how her time on the RIMS Board and as RIMS President helped ensure the passage of TRIA, the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act, in the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks.

[:49] There will be plugs later on, and we will learn about Janice's fascinating career, but I wanted to address the fact that this episode is being released on September 8th, 2026, a few days before the 25th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks in the U.S.

[1:10] Before we get started, I'd like to welcome back RIMS's Chief Executive Officer, Gary LaBranche, to say a few words.

[1:18] Message from Gary LaBranche: 2026 marks a quarter-century since terrorist attacks on the United States killed nearly 3,000 people, injured many more, and impacted the lives of millions.

[1:30] This RIMScast podcast provides the opportunity to reflect on the lives lost and the lasting impact of this tragedy on survivors, families, friends, first responders, and everyone who witnessed that horrendous day and has borne its burden over the past 25 years.

[1:51] The events of 9/11 also revealed the best in human nature, such as the warm, welcoming affection shown by Canadians when U.S.-bound flights were diverted to Gander, Montreal, Vancouver, Halifax, and other locations in the aftermath of 9/11, as we learn in this podcast.

[2:11] RIMS played a leading role in crafting and passing the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), which established an insurance backstop in the event of a future large-scale terrorist attack on America.

[2:24] RIMS is working right now on bipartisan legislation in both the U.S. House and Senate to reauthorize TRIA. As we commemorate this day, let us rededicate ourselves to the important work that risk management does to make the world safer, more secure, and more sustainable.

[2:46] On with the Show! Here to provide a brief history of RIMS's collaboration with members of Congress and the global insurance and risk management community is Janice Ochenkowski.

[2:59] Janice was RIMS President in 2007, and as we will learn in this episode, she had a colorful career with RIMS and with Jones Lang LaSalle, a commercial real estate property owner.

[3:13] Her RIMS participation prior to her presidency was instrumental in helping her get TRIA passed by Congress, so there's a lot to learn today … Let's get to it!

[3:23] Interview! Janice Ochenkowski, welcome to RIMScast!

[4:04] Janice joined the Chicago Chapter of RIMS, not understanding the larger RIMS organization. She became an active member and an officer. She was President of the Chicago Chapter the year that Chicago member Art Bostwick was RIMS President.

[4:55] Janice says Art was a good mentor for her. He encouraged her to follow in his footsteps to be national president. She laughed, but many years later, she did.

[5:20] Janice started her risk management career in 1980; she joined the RIMS Chicago Chapter in '82 or '83. After moving through the chairs in the Chicago Chapter, she became a delegate to the RIMS Conference, started working in various committees, and moved into leadership.

[5:47] Janice was elected to the Board, took on responsibilities for different chairs, and ended up in charge of Government Affairs.

[6:01] Lance Ewing, the President at the time, asked the Board what roles they wanted to take. Janice said she would do anything except legislative stuff, because she didn't know anything about it. He burst out laughing, and suddenly that was her mandate.

[6:31] Janice says she absolutely loved it. Jim McIntyre, who was RIMS's Washington Counsel, was a phenomenal mentor. He prepared her to testify, prepared her for meetings, and explained who she was going to meet and how it was going to work, and so on.

[6:53] Janice says, from there, I went into a few other responsibilities and ended up as the President.

[7:10] Janice started her career in 1980 at LaSalle Partners in real estate and financial services. There were 150 employees operating in six states. Because of Federal regulations regarding their pension work, they needed a full-time risk manager.

[7:35] The legislation said they needed a risk manager but didn't explain what the risk manager needed to do. Janice had been teaching high school, and she wanted to move into business.

[7:47] Janice interviewed through an employment agency with a variety of companies, and decided LaSalle Partners sounded interesting and it would be a good platform for her to get some experience and then move on.

[8:02] Thirty-eight years later, she was still there, and retiring. When she retired, there were 90,000 employees in 100 countries. Janice had 17 full-time staff, globally, working for her.

[8:20] Janice says LaSalle Partners started as a privately held company. Janice was one of the partners. It became a corporation and, after acquisitions, merged with Jones Lang Wootton, a UK real estate organization, and became Jones Lang LaSalle.

[9:17] Janice says her career was a wild ride. She says she never could have imagined the experiences she had, the friendships she made, and the things that she learned and had opportunities to do, through her company and through RIMS.

[9:36] Janice says she was able to draw links between the benefits of RIMS and the business of her business. When she went to board meetings, they asked how her RIMS work was going. She showed that being in leadership at RIMS helped her company to achieve its goals.

[10:27] Janice says, when she started at RIMS, there were the local chapters, and then there were industry groups. The real estate industry group was extremely active. It was populated by very experienced real estate risk managers. They served as mentors to anyone coming on.

[10:47] The group met not only during RIMS, but also in New York, in the fall, outside of the RIMS conference. Eventually, Jones Lang LaSalle supported the group's meetings and allowed them to use JLL buildings and support from technology to go forward.

[11:07] Janice says, when she was going to a RIMS conference, she asked the JLL Board if there was anything they wanted her to focus on when meeting up with risk managers of their clients and vendors.

[11:33] Over time, she didn't have to ask. They asked her, if you're going to your RIMS meeting, talk to this person. See if you can find out about this issue. There was connectivity between what Janice did at RIMS and supporting JLL.

[12:10] Justin asks what Janice taught in high school. It was English and French. She can still speak un petit peu of French. She enjoys opportunities to speak to people in French and ordering from French menus. As a teacher, she wanted something different and moved into business.

[12:42] Justin says that in over 400 RIMScast episodes, Janice might be the first guest who went from teaching and transitioned over to insurance. Janice says making lesson plans and executing them is good training for business.

[13:07] Janice says she learned how to explain things. She had to translate insurance into real estate speak for JLL. She had to take real estate speak and translate it into insurance speak for underwriters and brokers.

[13:22] Janice was comfortable speaking to groups because she had been speaking to unruly teenagers and getting them under control. Talking to a bunch of business people, who at least pretended to be interested, was a piece of cake. Janice says it was fun, and a good transition.

[13:55] Justin brings up Janice's time as the Director of Government Affairs for RIMS. She became chair of what is now known as the RIMS External Affairs Committee. Lance Ewing nudged her into the role in the late 1990s. Then the September 11 terrorist attacks happened.

[14:40] Janice says that one thing that's missing from most recollections is the immediate impact that the 9/11 terrorist attacks had. Before 9/11, there was the general perception that our borders were safe; there wasn't going to be an attack on U.S. soil.

[15:15] When we saw the towers burning, when the plane went down, when the Pentagon was hit, that illusion was shattered. There was fear. We didn't know if this was the first of an aerial attack. Janice was on the 70th floor of the Aon Building, so it was a real concern for her.

[15:40] Janice says, we didn't know if there was going to be an invasion or similar attacks around the country. To develop good risk management practices, the first thing you have to do is define the risk.

[15:53] Janice says, we couldn't define the risk. The only thing we could do immediately was respond to the situation. She was thinking more with her Jones Lang LaSalle hat than with her RIMS hat. The entire leadership and spouses were on the West Coast doing strategic planning.

[16:20] Janice says most of them operated in the Midwest and the East Coast. They had to get back, but there were no planes, no trains, and no transportation. They tried to get rental cars. So did everyone else in the world.

[16:50] When they couldn't get more rental cars, they went to a used car lot and bought vans, station wagons, and whatever they could find where couples could travel together to similar places. When they got to where they were going, they sold the cars. That's how they got back.

[17:15] Janice says, meanwhile, our technology folks were setting up hotlines: one hotline to figure out where people were. We had people traveling or on vacation. We didn't know where they were, and there was very limited communication. Phone lines and internet were down.

[17:45] We set up a hotline. Every employee was required to call in every day for a couple of weeks, identifying where they were, whether they needed help getting back to their home, and what other resources they might need. The hotline helped them to get those resources.

[18:06] The second hotline was for families. Families called that line if they were unable to reach their loved one. If the employee had called the hotline, JLL could tell the family where the employee was, how things were going, when they might get home, and take note of needs.

[18:26] Janice says that's what was happening on the home front, away from the immediate needs in each of these 9/11 sites. It was only after that that you could settle back and think strategically about what it meant on a broader basis, and that's when she put her RIMS hat on.

[18:49] Justin guesses that at the time, Jones Lang LaSalle had thousands of properties across the U.S., with millions of square feet. So there is the security risk at those buildings, as well. Janice agrees, absolutely.

[19:04] Janice says people focus on New York and D.C., but in Kansas, Nebraska, and all around the country, everyone was in shock and preparing for the worst.

[19:26] Janice says she remembers sitting on the 70th floor of the Aon Building, once they let everyone in, after a few days. There were windows all around, and her window looked out onto Lake Michigan, where all the military patrols were, over the lake.

[19:52] Janice clearly remembers many times over the next several weeks sitting there and suddenly seeing a black helicopter rise into view. She could see the pilot's face, and she waved. Then it would descend. She says it was reassuring but also scary.

[20:30] Justin asks about the hotlines. Janice says Jones Lang LaSalle did things collaboratively. If Technology was working on something, they brought in Risk, Legal, and HR, and they all sat down and figured it out. They were all a part of whatever strategy was needed.

[20:55] Janice was involved. She was an important member of the Security Team and the Safety Team, and was involved even in the aftermath, coming up with ways in which to strengthen and protect their buildings.

[21:08] People were worried about chemicals being thrown into the ventilation. So they came up with ways to protect that while still letting air into the buildings. What to do to allow people back in. All of those things had to be considered, for safety and for the practical effect on operations.

[21:33] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[21:46] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[22:02] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information.

[22:24] Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month.

[22:32] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[22:46] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! RISKWORLD 2027 Registration is open to organizational, individual, and associate RIMS members.

[23:04] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[23:17] Let's Return to Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski!

[23:41] Janice says she needed to wear her RIMS hat almost immediately. She says everyone realized that there was "innocuous" language in all policies that said terrorist acts were covered.

[23:57] There were no limits, sublimits, or deductibles. It was standard coverage because no one expected it to be a real issue. Then it was. There was an immediate concern as they looked at what their total exposure was.

[24:14] There was the concern about what to do for new policies. There was a moratorium on policies, as there always is after a particular crisis. When they were reissued, that language was removed. That might not seem like a problem for organizations with no real risk.

[24:35] Janice says, in the risk management area, there were covenants in our client contracts, from language pulled from insurance policies, that now we couldn't satisfy that requirement. We were in violation of our contract.

[24:54] Janice says the more critical issues were loan agreements and mortgages. Lenders required terrorism insurance. They weren't going to take that out after 9/11. We were faced with a terrible conundrum. We were in violation of our loan agreements.

[25:16] Janice says nobody moved quickly to foreclose on any of those things, but it was hanging over our heads. Unsuccessful efforts to renegotiate were going on, all across the country. Congress was absolutely unwilling to become the Federal program for terrorism.

[25:39] Janice says Congress refused to consider it being another flood insurance program because that wasn't going too well. Insurers started trying to figure things out and made some limited amounts of coverage available.

[25:55] At one point, globally, there was $10 million of terrorism coverage available. $10 million didn't satisfy anybody's loan requirement. Ultimately, it went up to $25 million, but it was still a problem.

[26:24] Organizations like the Real Estate Round Table, RIMS, and other groups formed coalitions. Jim McIntyre was very helpful. He had contacts in all those groups. He inserted RIMS wherever he could.

[26:49] JLL saw the basic need for what Janice was doing at RIMS, so she had carte blanche to go to Washington whenever she needed to work on these matters. These groups were able to explain to Congressional aides and the business press what things meant, in plain English.

[27:33] Januce says, you tell them, this building goes into foreclosure, and the guy running the coffee shop doesn't have a job anymore. Development and construction totally stop. Nothing was being built. That impacts all the trades and unions, so they joined the coalition.

[27:57] Unions became activists because their members, who thought they had jobs starting over the next several months, were now sitting on their hands with nothing to do. Small businesses set up around the potential sites had nothing happening.

[28:18] Janice says there was a financial impact from that decision by insurers. It wasn't a faulty decision; they had shareholders.

[28:33] Ultimately, after long discussions and negotiations, Janice testified before the President's Working Group on Terrorism, and before Congress, and met with Congressional Aides who were working on various bills, and was able to assist in passing TRIA.

[28:58] TRIA wasn't perfect, but what it did was bring together the three major parties who had the most skin in that game and gave each of them a relative amount of financial responsibility in what happened.

[29:12] These parties were the policyholders, with huge deductibles; insurance companies, with caps and reasonable premium allocations for risks, and the Federal Government, which came in after tens of millions of dollars had been paid out and criteria were met.

[29:45] The Federal Government wasn't being capricious, or taking first-dollar risk, but was a backstop, so that there wouldn't be financial ruin and we wouldn't have a lot of bankruptcies. Imperfect as TRIA was, it solved a problem.

[30:06] Janice says there have been several reauthorizations, and it has been tweaked each time to meet the issues and criteria that had to be met. Justin asks about cyber and forms of terrorism that may not be physical acts of terrorism.

[30:31] Janice mentions the NBCR, for Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, and Radiological threats. It raised the issue, and there were risk management processes that were able to minimize those risks.

[30:49] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[31:09] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[31:23] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[31:42] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[31:51] Let's Return to Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski.

[32:12] Janice says meeting with Congressional Aides and Policymakers on Capitol Hill was intimidating the first hundred times she did it. You're walking into these buildings that you've only seen photographs of. You're going into the offices.

[32:24] Jim McIntyre had explained to her that Congressional aides have a lot of power over the bills and the language in the bills. The Congresspeople they work for look to these aides to be their technical resource.

[32:42] While some people were angry that they couldn't meet with the principal; they were only going to meet with the staff, but you want to meet with the staff.

[32:57] The staff will take the time to sit down with language and work with you on it, and you'll have a better chance of impacting things by developing relationships with them. It worked very well. Some of the work Janice did with Jim before 9/11 really helped.

[33:22] There was some insurance legislation that was going on. Aides did not understand what it meant. Janice ran a lunch program for the aides and taught them the basics of insurance. She bought pizzas for them. Now, you can't do that because you can't buy them lunch.

[33:44] Janice says they were coming to learn. Many of them were thankful because it gave them an understanding of what people were talking about and why certain things mattered. We had built some groundwork before TRIA. It helped because I already knew some of the aides.

[34:00] There were already relationships. They were willing to sit down and talk with us. We were the voice of the insurance buyer. Previously, when insurance matters were discussed on the Hill, insurance companies and brokers were lobbying. This time, it was the voice of the buyer.

[34:29] Janice says, We were constituents. We represented industries and organizations that were in their respective districts. Our voice became an important voice, distinct from the insurance industry. It reinforced RIMS's importance and raised our visibility on the Hill.

[34:58] In 2004, Janice testified before a Senate Government Affairs Subcommittee on Insurance Brokerage Regulation regarding TRIA. Janice says, walking in, she was overcome with a sense of history. The panel was people she had seen on C-SPAN.

[35:26] Janice says she was terrified she would say something wrong, that it would come out backwards, and that she would embarrass RIMS, JLL, and herself. She was used to speaking in public, but this was just different. It all went well in the end.

[35:55] Janice says she had a prepared statement. Then there were five-minute questions and answers. Janice says there is a clock counting down, and when it gets to one minute, it starts flashing. She says it was a little unnerving and she stuttered a few times.

[36:33] Janice says they interrupt your five minutes with questions, so your time is less. You're supposed to summarize what your position is and what you're testifying for. When you're on a panel, it's not the same as when they're conducting a hearing, accusing you of wrongdoing.

[37:02] Janice says the Congress Members are trying to get information and a few sound bites to send home. It's not antagonistic. They're not trying to trip you up on anything. Once you become accustomed to it, the next time is a little easier, because you're relaxed.

[37:29] In 2006, Janice appeared before the House Subcommittee on Financial Services about Insurance Modernization. Janice says it was a topic that she had a lot of comfort in speaking about. She wasn't quite as nervous about getting the facts mixed up or totally blanking.

[38:05] Janice says she was part of a panel of five or six people. It's for an hour or so. They might pause if somebody has to take a call.

[38:36] Janice became RIMS President soon after.

[38:52] In 2012, Janice returned to Capitol Hill for a hearing before the Subcommittee on Insurance, Housing, and Community Opportunity of the Committee on Financial Services in the U.S. House of Representatives.

[39:08] Janice says she always spoke in RIMS's capacity. JLL did not do any lobbying. JLL joins groups, like the Real Estate Round Table, RIMS, and other groups that represent their interests.

[39:36] Janice says that for the 2012 visit she had a greater comfort level. It was on an issue she was comfortable with: broker compensation. It was easier to discuss. She still had the same anxieties about being in Congress, in that room, with all the history, speaking to icons.

[40:23] Justin says that TRIA was eventually passed. It's been reauthorized a couple of times. It has made a difference for companies and for society, at large. Janice says it raised RIMS's profile in the eyes of the others who were participating and testifying.

[40:46] Janice says RIMS got a lot of press. The Wall Street Journal and the business press, in addition to insurance publications, presented information about RIMS. On a corporate level, when Janice's name was printed in association with JLL, clients asked about it.

[41:18] Janice says, with things like TRIA, or general insurance questions, clients would go to their risk managers and ask them to contact me to get information. This delighted JLL because it was a closer client relationship. JLL had an initiative to provide specialist experts for clients.

[42:23] Janice says if you go before Congress, the most important thing is to do your homework. Even if you're comfortable with public speaking, don't expect you can ad-lib to a Committee. Prepare, prepare, prepare, and understand the pros and cons. Practice with potential questions.

[43:06] Janice practices loudly to learn what word combinations she stumbles over. Then she removes them from her presentation. She says when you're more prepared, you're more self-confident. That makes you a better presenter. Justin says, also, rehearse in different places.

[44:29] Janice takes a somewhat formal draft and then "Janicizes" it. She writes it in a way that's more conversational, as she would speak, rather than reading something formally. That makes you more comfortable, so you're a better presenter.

[45:22] Janice says it seems that everybody knows when it's time to pass the baton to the next generation. She loved what she did, and she did it well; she was open to new ideas, but she was standing in the way of the next generation of leaders moving forward. She didn't want to do that.

[45:55] Janice says that people with new ideas, generational ideas, who could relate to what's coming up, need to be allowed to move forward.

[46:12] Janice says, think about what's happening in Washington. People need to move aside to let a new generation of leaders come in. Otherwise, you're missing that energy and enthusiasm of a new group of leaders. That's life. You move away and let the new guy in.

[47:05] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."

[47:16] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now."

[47:26] On October 8th, Global Risk Consultants will present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now."

[47:35] On October 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session, "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."

[47:44] On October 22nd, Zurich will present "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders."

[47:53] Origami Risk will return on October 29th with a topic that will be announced soon.

[47:58] On November 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session, "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics."

[48:05] RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. All three webinars are complimentary for all and are available through the Webinars Page on https://www.rims.org/Webinars.

[48:21] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski!

[48:34] Justin says Janice became RIMS President during the housing and mortgage crisis of 2007-2008. Janice says it's something risk managers need to think about. When there is a crisis, you don't step away from it; you step into it. You show leadership.

[49:17] Janice says she was able to help resolve something that was one of the most critical issues at that time. At the beginning, the financial crisis focused on AIG and its vulnerability to bankruptcy, and what that meant to the entire insurance industry.

[49:47] Janice says it was really difficult because AIG was a major insurer for almost every large corporation in the U.S. and globally. Suddenly, senior board members were wondering if their claims in process would be paid. Will AIG go bankrupt, and what will happen to those claims?

[50:15] They wondered if they should cancel their policies mid-term and underwrite with someone else, and if so, who? What will the financial impact of that be? Boards were coming to risk managers with those questions. Janice had those questions herself.

[50:35] Janice says we were totally unprepared to answer them. We didn't have any more information than you were reading in The Wall Street Journal. Janice and the phenomenal RIMS staff put together a series of podcasts, the first of which was in three weeks.

[50:59] Janice says they got sponsors and speakers. They contacted experts in various areas and senior executives at the major insurers, including AIG, and insurance brokerages. They were willing to sit and talk to their clients and to be shown as thought leaders in the area.

[51:20] Janice says at the time there were 1,000 talking heads saying what should be done, but there were very few facts. You can't form a good risk management response to anything until you have facts; until you have data you can rely on and move forward with.

[51:50] Janice says RIMS strove to provide facts. When they did the podcasts, they did not only invite RIMS members. They sent invitations to the C-Suites of major corporations. They told The Wall Street Journal and other business publications they were running these podcasts.

[52:06] There was a series of podcasts. People tuned in. They were interested. RIMS established credibility with the information they provided. RIMS gave them tools and told them what to think about and consider, and what the ramifications could be, and let them decide for themselves.

[52:55] Janice says that it seemed to be a popular series, and it raised RIMS's profile within the general business community and the C-Suite, even in areas that didn't have dedicated risk managers who reported to the C-Suite. It was one of the most important things RIMS did.

[53:25] Janice says, then they went to Congress and talked to them about solvency and more. Also, Janice says they kept in touch with Congressional staff between meetings. The key to relationships on the Hill is meeting with aides. Many move from one Congressperson to another.

[53:49] You keep up the relationships, and that gives your organization credibility. You're there consistently. Once an aide called and asked her to help define risk management for a piece of legislation. They had no real idea. She helped them craft something reasonable but not onerous.

[55:14] Justin brings up the RIMS Annual Legislative Summit. They have a presence on Capitol Hill every year. It's a two-day or two-and-a-half-day event, so members who attend can get onboarded, know their talking points, and know the issues. Janice elaborates on preparation.

[56:15] Janice says the Legislative Summit brought a lot of people from local RIMS chapters into the External Affairs Committee. That was a good pipeline.

[56:31] Justin says his experience in 2018, for the reauthorization of the National Flood Insurance Program, was everything Janice mentioned. There was a small card with talking points, there was a rehearsal, coaching from professional lobbyists, and industry leadership.

[57:10] Justin says it was a great experience. They met with aides, brought maps, and showed flood zones. They had the talking points down, and it was effective. It was one of the best experiences he could have had as a new RIMS staff member. It was excellent.

[57:59] Justin remarks that Janice was the right person for the job. Her experience at Jones Lang LaSalle was terrific. Janice was a lifer. She retired in 2018, after 38 years.

[58:46] Janice says risk management has certain basic things, but you have to evolve with the times. You can't resist change; you have to look at change as an opportunity.

[59:00] If you're a smart risk manager, you're going to lean your company into that opportunity. Janice says, when people were working in her generation of RIMS, it wasn't unusual to spend a career at one or two companies. There was stability. You didn't need to leave to be promoted.

[59:26] Janice became a Partner. When they were incorporated, she became an officer. When she ended her career, she was an Executive Vice President and part of the Global Operating Team, which set strategies for all JLL businesses. They reported directly to the Board.

[59:51] Janice says risk management had a fairly high profile. New risk officers may not have that opportunity because the business world is demanding that you move every three to five years to get promoted.

[1:00:23] Janice says whatever works for you and your organization and helps you move forward is what your personal strategy needs to be. Janice says, not only those who died in the towers, in the Pentagon, and in the field, but those who walked away with scars, visible and invisible.

[1:00:40] Justin takes a moment to address and honor everyone who lost their lives during the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks, on its 25th anniversary.

[1:01:04] Janice speaks of the first responders and volunteers who rushed in to help and walked away with lifelong consequences from the materials that they inhaled.

[1:01:19] Janice says, We just need to spend a few minutes on 9/12 remembering them and making sure that the relevance and their sacrifices are noted.

[1:01:36] Janice, you've given us so much inspiration, and told us what it took for you to be an effective RIMS President. To anyone thinking about pursuing a leadership role at RIMS, starting out now, what advantages do they have to position them for success as a RIMS leader?

[1:02:06] Janice says, the most important benefit that exists today, that didn't when I was starting, is technology. Today we do Zoom calls. Getting together and communicating was much more onerous.

[1:02:23] It wasn't as easy to get people from across the country together and work collaboratively. We can do that easily now. People are taking advantage of that. They're using social media to spread ideas.

[1:02:41] Janice says her generation struggled with social media. She did it because that's what she had to do. You can't stagnate. You've got to move with the changes as they come and figure out how to use those changes to move yourself forward.

[1:02:58] What will technology and AI mean to risk management? What will they mean to RIMS? How is RIMS going to use AI? How is RIMS leadership going to use AI to promote what the important basics of risk management are and can be? Those are things you have to consider.

[1:03:18] In order to be an effective leader at RIMS, you have to get the absolute support of your organization. You've got to connect those dots. You've got to show how and why your leadership at RIMS is going to benefit your company.

[1:03:42] Telling your leadership you're going to a conference is not going to convince them that there's anything important going on.

[1:03:56] The way to convince them is to tell them there's a conference. These are the sessions that they're going to have. This is the speaker they will have. That speaker is someone I think will tell me information about how to address this issue.

[1:04:13] This session is about an issue that we faced last year. I want to go and see how others are doing with it. The next step is to come back and write a note telling leaders what you learned in that session. Ask, Can I meet with you to talk about these things I think we can implement?

[1:04:42] You're showing that you're taking the information you're learning and using it to improve risk management in your company, and more importantly, the business of the business you are working in.

[1:05:00] When Janice was President, she would visit a chapter and ask everybody who's in the insurance industry to raise their hands. They would raise their hands. Then she told them, no, you use the products of the insurance industry, but you are your company's representative.

[1:05:51] Janice Ochenkowski, thank you so much for all your time and your insight today. It's such a pleasure to meet you face-to-face, and I hope we get to do that in person at a future RIMS event.

[1:06:06] Special thanks again to former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski for joining us here on RIMScast! This was a lot of fun, and there are plenty of great takeaways about TRIA, RIMS, public speaking, and honoring the victims of the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks.

[1:05:26] It was a real pleasure to meet Janice Ochenkowski, one of our most revered leaders.

[1:06:30] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[1:06:48] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[1:07:04] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[1:07:17] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[1:07:29] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

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"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9 | Complimentary for all

"Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026

"RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24" | Complimentary for All

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"The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

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Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau"

"When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower"

"RIMS Advocacy in 2026 with Mark Prysock"

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"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest: Janice Ochenkowski, Former RIMS President

Special introduction by RIMS CEO Gary LaBranche

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall about working with Spencer Educational Foundation. They discuss experiences outside the classroom, including mentoring, conferences, and responsible communication with industry professionals. They discuss the importance of participating actively in conferences, not just sitting there. Lawanda shares some of the gaps she sees between students' preparation and the readiness employers will expect from them. She explains how coaching can prepare them for entering the risk management workplace. Lawanda encourages RIMS chapters to give the mic to students so they can understand the importance of their voice.

Listen for wisdom on listening without judgment and communicating responsibly.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall. She is a risk management student mentor. She is going to talk about how she is helping to guide the next generation of risk management professionals. But first…

[:45] RIMS-CRMP! RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. A link to the week's events is on this episode's show notes, including three free webinars. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification.

[1:02] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and understand how the RIMS-CRMP is helping shape the future of risk management. A link to Certification Week is in the show notes, or find it at https://www.rims.org/Webinars.

[1:20] On September 9th, the Classroom to Career series concludes. Join experienced risk professionals for an engaging discussion about what it's like to build a career in the field of risk management. This session is complimentary for members and nonmembers.

[1:38] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."

[1:49] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now."

[2:00] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th. Their topic will be announced soon.

[2:06] On October 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session, "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."

[2:15] Origami Risk will return on October 29th with a topic that will be announced soon.

[2:20] On November 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session, "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." Visit https://www.rims.org/Webinars to register.

[2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:48] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala will be held on September 17th at the newly renovated Waldorf Astoria in New York City. Visit https://www.spencered.org/ and the link in this episode's show notes.

[3:05] On with the Show! I mentioned Spencer just now because one of our favorite Risk Managers on Campus is rejoining us here on RIMScast. I'm talking about Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall. She is the CEO of Intelligent Intentions.

[3:21] We will talk about the habits, mindsets, and professional skills that are consistently distinguishing students who are making lasting impressions on recruiters and hiring managers, from those who need to sharpen their skills.

[3:34] Also, some of the trends she is seeing among risk students, habits that they need to develop, and some that they need to break. We're going to have a lot of fun! Let's get to it!

[3:44] Interview! Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall, welcome back to RIMScast!

[4:09] Lawanda says students preparing for a risk career need a menu of options. The next step would be aligning their appetite to the options, having the courage to create something that may not be on the menu, and having the courage to ask for off-menu options.

[4:31] Lawanda says, as we navigate this industry, emerging technologies, and emerging risks, wrapping our minds around companies that don't exist yet and may come to exist, students look to the future, understanding that sometimes the options are not yet on the menu.

[4:57] Lawanda encourages them to keep an open mind, keep a creative posture, and have the courage to ask, what are they not seeing on the menu that could also be an option, or how they can co-create an option aligned with their interests but also what the industry needs from them.

[5:45] Lawanda and Justin agree that it is a heavy lift for students. Lawanda says students nowadays have such a broad reference that we didn't have, and that puts them in the position to be more creative and thoughtful about the future.

[5:57] Lawanda says, tech change is happening much more rapidly for students than it did for us. That gives them a different posture for looking into the future. There's new technology every year. Lawanda says, we didn't replace our cell phones every year. We didn't have cell phones.

[6:21] When we got cell phones, we weren't replacing them every year. Now, students are almost expected to update their technology annually. That's indicative of how they feel about the future, changes, and evolution. They have an accelerated understanding of the possibility of change.

[6:40] Lawanda says social media plays into it, where everybody has the latest and the greatest, and they think that they need to have the most updated thing. Lawanda says she gets anxious every time there's an update. Will she have to figure it out all over again? Chances are, yes.

[7:43] Lawanda says students embrace that change. They look forward to it, and they expect it. That gives them a different mindset around forward thinking.

[8:05] For experiential learning, Lawanda recommends coaching, attending conferences, and making sure students understand responsible communication with industry professionals. If you're not responsible and thoughtful about how you communicate, it can backfire.

[8:24] Lawanda says she coaches students before conferences. She helps them understand how to maximize that moment, and not just be sitting there or standing there like a wallflower. She wants them to maximize the moment in whatever way they can.

[8:43] Lawanda does coaching. She makes sure they attend conferences, not just the big ones, but also local events that are hosted by professional organizations, including RIMS. Students need coaching, conferences, and responsible communication with industry professionals.

[9:18] Justin comments that attending a large conference and speaking to people takes a certain degree of confidence. Justin asks if being in school during COVID prevented young people from picking up social cues and networking cues.

[10:00] Lawanda thinks that young people's social connections were declining before COVID due to social media. Students aren't communicating with each other. They text or use social media as armor to make them feel more comfortable and confident in their communication.

[10:22] Face-to-face interaction is awkward because they don't practice it amongst themselves or amongst the community. Lawanda says COVID amplified it, but it wasn't the beginning or the cause of it.

[10:38] Social media continues to create that challenge because students are comfortable on their phones and engaging in that space. When students show up, the confidence and courage don't translate from social media to the real world.

[11:01] Lawanda says students need to understand social etiquette and multi-generational communication and connection, the things we were taught because we didn't have a phone: you have to make eye contact, speak up so people can hear you; things we take for granted.

[12:11] Lawanda says she's very curious. She is intrigued by students, and she listens to them. She wants to hear what they have to say. She doesn't have to agree. She doesn't sit in a place of judgment or offense. If you don't listen to them, they are not willing to listen to you.

[12:46] From listening to students, Lawanda gains an understanding of their language so she can use their language to talk to them. It also shows her where their deficiencies are, so she can fill those gaps and help them understand how to take the next step toward their objectives.

[13:19] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[13:34] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[13:51] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information.

[14:08] Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[14:19] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[14:32] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st!

[14:42] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[15:02] Let's Return to Our Interview with Lawanda Hall!

[15:19] When Lawanda works with students, she starts with the end in mind. What are their objectives? What are they trying to accomplish? This generation is very focused on getting things done. They're go-getters. Impact and results are what propel them.

[15:37] They may be stopped, like any human being, by not having the confidence or by fear of what people will think. Lawanda starts with the end in mind by focusing on getting it done. She coaches them through the process and gives them the benefit of her perspective.

[15:53] Lawanda reminds them that everybody they talk to are human beings, too. They're imperfect human beings. She tells them, they're here to listen to you because you have a perspective they're interested in. It's going to work out. It's a conversation. You're not on trial.

[16:14] Just think about the objective and keep it in mind to push through.

[16:49] Lawanda says students want immediate impact, as far as the next step or thing, and instant feedback, but not necessarily instant completion. If they have a big goal, or big things to accomplish, it's not going to happen in a moment.

[17:09] They want instant feedback. They don't want to be told they will figure it out later. Do they follow up? They want to know that this step is complete to get ready to go to the next step. Lawanda says that is realistic, and it accelerates what they're trying to accomplish.

[17:36] Justin says that his daughter zones out over context when she asks for help with her homework. She just wants the instant answer. That's the future workforce of the industry.

[18:23] Lawanda says the students don't value context as much as earlier generations. Our responsibility as a generation is to help them learn how to think. Critical thinking is a dying art. Lawanda challenges them on how to think things through.

[18:42] If they ask a question, Lawanda may ask them another question to help them think through it, and walk them through the thinking process, versus just giving them an answer. Also, she may use a reference that they have in their world.

[19:03] Lawanda has godchildren who are young enough to keep her fresh with what's popular. Lawanda likes to use a reference that's familiar to students, to pull them into the thinking game; thinking through a process. Just asking and getting the answer is not transformative.

[19:36] Justin says we don't want them always asking their phones for the answers. Lawanda says that flattens their thinking. It's important that we call them up to be critical thinkers.

[19:50] One More Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026 will be held on September 17th in New York City at the Waldorf Astoria. This year's honorees are two of our recent guests, Sierra Signorelli of Zurich and Marya Propis of RT Specialty.

[20:14] A link to the Gala is in this episode's show notes.

[20:18] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Internship Grant applications opened on August 15th and will close on October 15th. A link to the Internship Grants page is in this episode's show notes. Visit http://spencered.org/ for more information.

[20:39] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Lawanda Hall!

[21:16] Lawanda says there is a communication gap between generations. That's not new. Every generation has that gap of understanding, based on where they sit. The socio-emotional gap is new and growing, created partly by the helicopter parenting, everybody-gets-a-trophy approach.

[21:42] Lawanda says people who are entering the workforce are looking to work and contribute to make a living. People who are hiring are looking for that, too. They're looking for a good work ethic. The disconnect is in the how. The work they do hasn't changed as much as how they do it.

[22:09] Lawanda has heard of people bringing their parents to work to advocate on their behalf because they don't have the courage to have the conversation with their boss. She has heard of this generation bringing their parents into interviews, because they're not sure what to do.

[22:50] Lawanda leans into her curiosity and asks, How did we get here? Why are students not courageous enough or able to do these things on their own in their early 20s? She has questions of parents and questions of students, and the educational institutions? What are we not doing?

[23:21] Lawanda says we have co-created this. We can't just put it on the students. They didn't raise themselves. They're not in a silo. We have to look at the entire environment and ask, Who contributed, how, and why?

[23:40] Lawanda continues, Why are we here where we don't have adults who have the courage to show up in the way that they have in generations past? Justin displays his shock at the scenario. Lawanda doesn't know if the parents volunteer or if the students ask them to go.

[24:39] Lawanda wants to examine that construct and ask what's going on here. Parents have gone from coaching to coddling. Lawanda says that's a big contributor to students' inability to sit as an adult with other adults, have courageous conversations, and show up with confidence.

[25:08] Lawanda says if she had asked one of her parents to go to an interview with her, they would have laughed and told her she was crazy. They would not have entertained that. Why are parents doing it? These children did not raise themselves.

[25:24] Lawanda says coaching is very important. When she coaches students for an hour, she can see the shift in their understanding. They're getting information, agency, and authority over their being that they didn't have before she talked to them.

[25:40] Lawanda says, for some reason, there are parents who are not handing over agency and authority to students at the time that they need to, so you have 25- and 30-year-old teenagers who don't understand how to adult in the workforce. That is a big disconnect.

[26:05] Lawanda says students are smart and capable of doing the work. How they show up for work, and the socio-emotional disconnect, is one of the biggest challenges for this generation of students and employees. It feels like babysitting. A business is not a day-care.

[26:29] Lawanda says, you want them to come in, do work, and contribute, without having to feel like you need a whole team of Social Workers in HR to make sure that employees are OK. That's counterproductive and antithetical to adulting and what you expect from an adult.

[27:35] Lawanda says judgment and criticism create more distance. Our goal is not to create more distance, but to close the gap, embrace them, bring them forward, and call them up into their power, into their authority, and hand over the agency to them, so that they understand.

[27:48] It's not that they can't do it. They haven't been given permission to do it. They lack social opportunities in their everyday life, the things we took for granted, like going outside and playing kickball and hanging out with other kids.

[28:06] You learn so much in that space. Your confidence grows, your courage grows, your problem-solving skills, and your thinking skills; all these things are taking place. These students aren't getting that.

[28:17] They're in their room on their phones, scrolling, hearing opinions, giving opinions, being judged, judging, and not socializing. Justin says, it's all noise; it's not constructive. There's a difference between controlled chaos and chaos. Justin will not sit in on his kid's job interviews.

[28:40] Lawanda says it starts before job interviews. At some point, you hand over the agency and say, you handle that on your own and then come back and tell me how it worked out. If you need me to come, I will, but you do it first, and let's see how it works out.

[29:27] In restaurants, Justin makes sure that his children deal with the server. They hear and speak, and they know what they want. He doesn't speak for them.

[29:43] Lawanda says that when you speak for your children forever, you never hand them their agency. You teach them that their voice is not valuable, that their voice doesn't matter, and that they don't have to think or speak up for themselves. That's not healthy evolution.

[30:40] Lawanda says Spencer Educational Foundation is amazing. They do more than write checks. They embrace experiences for students. They give them opportunities to engage in industry exposure. They are great at holding folks accountable for how they spend the money.

[31:08] Spencer Educational Foundation makes sure their dollars have wings, that evolution and growth are happening, and whatever the intention is for the money, that it is happening within the organizations and institutions they support.

[31:26] Lawanda says this creates accountability and an environment of respect, generation after generation. Lawanda is happy to be part of the Spencer family. She also encourages others to be part of the Spencer family.

[31:51] Lawanda says Spencer Educational Foundation is a place that operates with amazing integrity; she knows it will be around for a long time, just based on how they do business; not just what they do, but also how they do it.

[32:07] Lawanda says, Spencer Educational Foundation is a beautiful investment of not just dollars, but also understanding, and a beautiful culture of accountability.

[32:24] Lawanda is in Atlanta, Georgia. Justin mentions that RIMS has a very active chapter in Atlanta. Justin asks Lawanda what she would hope every RIMS chapter listening today would do to better support students and strengthen the next generation of risk professionals,

[32:48] Lawanda says, it's simple, but it's a big impact: Give the mic to the students. Lawanda has been in RIMS since she was in college. One thing the Atlanta chapter did was to have a session where students would do a case study on a topic and present it to the professionals.

[33:12] Lawanda says every year, students had an opportunity to present their case study. When Lawanda was in school, they presented on TRIA because it was new. The professionals wanted to know more about it, so the students worked with professors to understand it and prepare it.

[34:01] Lawanda says, We were able to present that to them and add value to their experiences, and also add a tremendous amount of confidence that encouraged the students to know they were valuable to the professionals, and the professionals were valuable to the students.

[34:14] Lawanda says we have to be open to allowing ourselves to learn from the students and value their voice. When we value their voice, it calls them to understand the importance of their voice and having agency over their voice. That's one thing chapters can do to help students.

[34:54] Justin is glad Lawanda brought up the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), because next week's guest is former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski, who was instrumental in helping Congress understand the importance of TRIA in its earliest stages.

[35:08] Next week we are going to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks, here on RIMScast with her.

[35:22] Lawanda says in 25 years, she went from being mentored to being a mentor; Impact does not come in a one-size-fits-all package. You can have impact in a five-minute conversation and give them the opportunity to learn from your missteps or your mistakes in the industry.

[35:50] You can have a longer relationship as a mentor, where you do check-ins and touchpoints, and kind of coach and cultivate, and help someone to understand what their possibilities are in different segments of their career.

[36:08] Lawanda says she has understood that just because things are packaged a certain way doesn't mean that's the only packaging it can exist in. Micromentoring is valuable because not everyone has the capacity to take on a mentor for a year or six months.

[36:34] Lawanda says if you encounter somebody, and spend three to five minutes with them, and give them the benefit of a lesson that you've learned, it can be a seed that will blossom beautifully along the way. Understand that impact exists in a variety of packages.

[36:56] Justin says, It has been such a delight to see you! I hope to see you again at RISKWORLD 2027 in New Orleans. Lawanda says she loves New Orleans and looks forward to being in that space for some good, productive meetings, and some really good food.

[37:24] Lawanda, we appreciate all you do for our next generation of risk professionals. Your affiliation with Spencer is always valued. I look forward to seeing you in April!

[37:50] Special thanks again to Lawanda Hall for joining us here on RIMScast! A link to her prior RIMScast appearance is in this episode's show notes. She is one of our esteemed Risk Managers on Campus through the Spencer Educational Foundation's program.

[38:05] The deadline for the Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus Grant has passed, but I've put up a link so you can plan for 2027.

[38:13] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[38:31] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[38:47] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[39:01] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[39:13] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1 | Complimentary for all

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9 | Complimentary for all

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026 |

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall — Intelligent Intentions

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22-24 | Complimentary For All

"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau"

"Choosing the Challenge with Johnell Holly"

"A Menu of Risk Options with Elle Michell Hall" (2023)

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before a Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest: Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall, CEO, Intelligent Intentions

Risk Manager on Campus

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Cari Stinebower about sanctions as an enterprise risk management issue. They discuss the holistic view of the maritime space and enterprise risk. They cover aspects of the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA) and how insurance companies, brokers, and reinsurers work with the U.S. Government to mitigate terrorism risk.

Listen for advice on keeping your organization compliant with respect to sanctions and terrorism risk.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will discuss geopolitical risk, sanctions, and TRIA with Cari Stinebower, a partner in the Washington, D.C. office of Steptoe. But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP on September 1st and 2nd for a two-day virtual workshop. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[:55] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:10] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:24] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[1:34] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."

[1:46] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." Visit https://www.rims.org/Webinars to register.

[1:59] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:17] On with the Show! Our guest today is Cari Stinebower. She is a partner at Steptoe in Washington, D.C., and a former U.S. Department of the Treasury and Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) Attorney-Adviser.

[2:32] Cari focuses her practice on regulatory risk where U.S. National Security and Foreign Policy objectives intersect with cross-border business.

[2:39] We will talk about fraud, money laundering detection, and cybersecurity, and how this can be connected to the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA).

[2:50] We'll also talk about how international sanctions can impact any organization, and why risk managers should be strategizing now, if they haven't already. There is so much to discuss! Let's get to it!

[3:04] Interview! Cari Stinebower, welcome to RIMScast!

[3:24] Cari says she was at OFAC at an interesting time. She came in after a Hill job doing the campaign finance cleanup for the Democrats for three years, from 1996 to 1999.

[3:38] Cari says that OFAC sank their teeth into anti-money laundering and the detection of fraud and corruption. When Cari joined Treasury as an analyst within OFAC, they slotted her into a position focused on counter-narcotics work, and also on the Milošević tribunal.

[4:03] Cari says there was lots of work to do and not enough staff to do it. Everyone ot OFAC had then, and still has, multiple portfolios. Cari was splitting between Milošević and counter-narcotics work.

[4:20] Cari says she spent a lot of time in Colombia working with banks and the Colombian government on anti-money laundering, focused on the cartels. The drug dealers were very sophisticated and were spectacular at establishing front companies and money laundering.

[4:54] Cari says it was a very good lesson for what was to come through the counter-terrorism work. The Colombian narcotics traffickers and their front companies were light-years ahead on money laundering techniques and sanctions evasion.

[5:44] Cari says in Colombia, at that time, the narcotics traffickers were excellent businessmen. It was such a lucrative career that they had to find ways to wash the cash. They were buying agricultural businesses, tourism businesses, pharmacies; anything they could to launder cash.

[6:18] Cari says they could have been fabulous businessmen if they had gone legitimate. She says some of them tried.

[6:32] Cari says 9/11 happened, so the world changed overnight. Cari switched from a counter-narcotics focus to a counter-terrorism focus.

[6:44] They started chasing the money. Who was the source of the funds? Where was it going? Which financial institutions were involved? Were they doing it knowingly? Were they being used by governments? Were they being used by "charities"? How is it flowing?

[7:03] Cari says that became her focus at OFAC for the next five years after 0/11, before she hopped into the private sector.

[7:39] Justin asks about sanctions against nations. Cari says the old way Treasury used to do sanctions was by jurisdiction. A jurisdiction would be identified as prohibited, off-limits for U.S persons, meaning individuals and entities.

[8:01] Any funds, transactions, or contracts that came into the possession or control of the U.S. person or entity would, by operation of law, be blocked or frozen; the title remained with the sanctioned party, but the U.S. person or entity had to freeze it and report it to the Treasury.

[6:26] The original sanctions on Iran were jurisdictional, based on the government, based on persons located within the jurisdiction of Iran. The Department of the Treasury was aggressive in pursuing enforcement actions.

[8:44] Financial institutions were sanctioned with multi-million-dollar penalties. The world started to voluntarily comply. It was U.S. driven initially, but European financial institutions and some of the Emirati financial institutions got on board and complied with the sanctions.

[9:20] The Departments of the Treasury and Justice used a clause within the underlying statute for the Iran sanctions that allowed penalties to be imposed on non-U.S. financial institutions that were causing a U.S. bank to process transactions on behalf of the sanctioned party.

[9:43] That was the line of the European banking cases that came out. Cari says banks were penalized from 2005 through 2015, which pretty much swept in everyone.

[9:56] That was the modern buildout of the compliance program where the U.S. established it was applying its sanctions requirements not only to U.S. persons but to non-US. persons where they could also identify a nexus.

[10:12] The favorite nexus was the use of U.S. dollars through the clearing system. Sanctions exploded. It was identifying ways to reach non-U.S. parties through the use of dollars, servers located in the U.S., call centers, approvals, or whatever they could, as a hook to get U.S. nexus.

[10:51] Justin asks about sanctions against Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Cari says North Korea has sort of fallen off. There's a big focus on North Korea's use of forced labor. They've also been active in cyberspace and ransomware.

[11:20] Cari says we don't see North Korea as often as we see Iran, Russia, and, to a certain degree, Cuba. It depends on the administration. For a while, Venezuela was really hot, from an anti-corruption, anti-money-laundering perspective, rather than a sanctioned invasion.

[11:46] Justin speaks of the latest AML bill, passed in 2023. Cari says the big overhaul was under the Patriot Act, which updated and modernized the Bank Secrecy Act. It also updated and modernized the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), OPEC's big statute.

[12:09] Cari says there have been updates since. When you hear M&A partners or private equity guys talking, they often refer back to the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act becomes this overarching term for updates to the AML laws and regulations.

[12:48] Cari says there has been a growing evolution of the anti-corruption, anti-bribery statutes, the anti-money-laundering statutes, the sanctions world, and the adjacents like the whistleblower protections and the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act.

[13:09] Cari says all of these components are part of this growing collective focus on upgrading U.S. Government abilities to protect against threats to national security and the economy.

[13:32] Justin says risk managers are accustomed to thinking about operational and financial risks, but sanctions can feel like a legal issue. Part of the problem is you may have a legal officer who is not a risk manager or a risk manager who is not a legal officer.

[13:48] Justin asks, When should sanctions become an Enterprise Risk Management issue? Cari says, looking at OFAC's enforcement actions, sanctions should always be an Enterprise Risk Management focus.

[14:04] It's very easy for the bad guys to take advantage of a business if it's siloed. The easiest way to detect a problem, whether it's financial sanctions evasion or exposure to corruption, is if the enterprise is looking holistically at its business, its counterparties, and its transactions.

[14:26] Cari says, when we're working with clients on building a global compliance policy or procedure, we keep telling them that it's better to have a holistic view of the business, customers, and geography.

[14:43] Not only geographic risk, customer risk, or service risk, but also across the regulatory schemes. If you have sanctions exposure somewhere in your enterprise, you're also likely going to have an anti-money-laundering issue, a corruption issue, and/or an export controls issue.

[15:06] Cari says when you're building out compliance, you want to have a 1,000-foot view of the business units, your customers, your geographies, and the regulatory components, so that you can take advantage of what you may be seeing in one area. It's silos that cause the problems.

[15:26] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[15:42] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[15:59] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information.

[16:16] Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[16:27] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[16:40] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st!

[16:50] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[17:10] Let's Return to Our Interview with Cari Stinebower!

[17:26] Cari says an example of sanctions risk is Iranian oil or Venezuelan oil. Typically, the pattern is you have a Greek shipment manager under charter to deliver oil and gas to China.

The Bill of Lading says the cargo is of Omani origin or Malaysian blend.

[18:08] It looks clean. They have all the sanctions exclusions language in the Charter Agreement; the insurers, the reinsurers, and the P&I quotes have all established that the vessel cannot carry Iranian cargo. The documents say it's Omani or Malaysian, and off you go.

[18:28] Then you get a call from the U.S. State Department or the Treasury Department saying you've got Iranian cargo on board. The U.S. Government typically knows that because they're using satellite tracking software. They know that the cargo was loaded by ship-to-ship transfer.

[18:58] If you go back through the satellite imagery, you can see that it's happened probably two or three times, and when the vessel called on the Omani port that was supposed to be the source of the cargo, it came in at the same draft as it left. Calling on the port was clearly a ruse.

[19:34] When you get to the financial payments, that's where you have the money laundering side, and you can see that the Omani seller of the cargo is just a front company with a brand new website, secretly run by the Revolutionary Guard.

[19:56] Cari says that when we start talking about the compliance policies and procedures, it's not good enough just to rely on the Bill of Lading. The expectation is that you're going to be doing something a little deeper.

[20:11] In 2019, the Department of Justice started to pursue a lot of ship owners and ship managers for carrying Iranian cargo. Sometimes it was Iranian cargo going to Venezuela or going to China.

[20:32] In a decent batch of those cases, the ship owners or ship managers would be contacted by the U.S. Government and agree that the Government was right and ask what they could do not to get sanctioned.

[20:51] Cari says there were a series of cases where the ships were brought to the U.S. and the cargo was sold by the U.S. Government, with the proceeds going to the Victims of Terrorism Fund, for parties who registered with the Special Master and were entitled to a pro rata share.

[21:20] That was the U.S. Government's solution to what to do with all this cargo that they can seize, and they had been seizing, under the Foreign Terrorist Organization Statute. We're now seeing the same focus on the narcotics trafficking cartels in Mexico, Brazil, and Venezuela.

[21:46] Cari says, You see the evolution of the U.S. Government's thinking over the years, how the Iranian oil cases are now relevant to countering narcotics trafficking caused by the cartels in South America.

[22:00] Justin asks about supply chain risk and sanctions-related risks companies may overlook when they evaluate suppliers. Cari says the supply chain, particularly when you're dealing with raw materials or manufacturers coming out of China, has been an issue for a long time.

[22:29] Cari says it's not difficult for a U.S. importer who's bringing in parts and components for widgets to know that their manufacturer or warehouse in China is who they say they are. That's easy enough.

[22:48] Where we see issues is when the Chinese manufacturer subcontracts to second or third parties, who ostensibly are also compliant, but it becomes difficult in a more opaque jurisdiction like China to do the tracing down to the actual mine or source of the raw materials.

[23:14] That leads up to the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA), which has forced companies to look at supply chains where there's a Chinese component, for several years.

[23:31] Where are the raw materials coming from? Do you know where all of the raw materials are coming from, or do you just know where some are? Under the UFLPA, companies were particularly focused on identifying those risks in China.

[23:50] Cari says, under the first Trump Administration, and under the Biden Administration, you started to see a lot of companies moving away from sole-sourcing goods from China, specifically because of that risk.

[24:02] The National Drug Control Strategy Report that came out in May 2026 is digging deep into supply chain issues.

[24:13] It says two things: first, that the U.S. Government needs to act as a whole. The Departments of Justice, Treasury, and Homeland Security need to work together on tackling supply chain issues and addressing where the gaps are.

[24:35] Supply chains are being exploited, not only by narcotics traffickers, but across the board.

[24:41] The report is also telling businesses that it's not enough to have an OFAC sanctions compliance program where you screen your counterparties against the SDN list.

[24:54] There's an expectation for businesses to go deeper, using analytics and AI, looking at their records, and knowing who the suppliers of their suppliers are. [25:17] The expectation is for businesses to step up their game, but also for the U.S. Government to partner with businesses to figure out how to do that.

[25:35] Cari says we've also been telling other jurisdictions, like those in the Caribbean and South America, that this is a really good opportunity.

[26:44] The first Trump Administration, the Biden Administration, and the second Trump Administration have said to stop sole-sourcing in China. Let's near-shore and friend-shore, and let's bring business and infrastructure back to the Western Hemisphere.

[26:00] Cari says we're starting to see jurisdictions offer tax incentives for setting up manufacturing spaces, or finding ways to invest in the United States to bring back manufacturing.

[26:14] Cari says the big issue of late has been how to bring shipbuilding back to the United States. Is there a way to do it in Latin America without relying on China as the major shipyard? [26:29] Those issues are interesting because they trigger a series of other questions: cost of labor, sourcing raw materials, and more. It's a longer-term problem. If you're building out your supply chain nose-to-tail, it's going to require a more transparent jurisdiction than China.

[26:52] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[27:11] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[27:26] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[27:44] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[27:53] Let's return to our interview with Cari Stinebower!

[28:14] Justin asks if other countries sanction the United States or U.S. companies. Cari says it has become a new trend. The jurisdictions doing it are China, with the National Security Law; Russia, identifying Hostile Jurisdictions that have imposed sanctions against Russia.

[29:12] Cari says it's a quid pro quo. Ukraine has a sanctions program against entities that do business with Russia. Canada and Europe are well-known for their Blocking Statutes.

[29:48] They have Antidote Sanctions that prohibit their nationals from complying with the U.S.'s Cuba Sanctions. Those jurisdictions see the U.S. sanctions on Cuba as territorial. There is a quid pro quo.

[30:08] Sometimes it triggers conflict-of-law issues, and companies have to decide how and when they're going to comply with which set of sanctions.

[30:46] Cari says, if you don't have a holistic view of which jurisdictions you're operating in, and where your U.S. nationals are located, there's no way to build out a robust, comprehensive sanctions program.

[31:01] If you have a U.S. person located in or in a business position in Canada, you wouldn't want them dealing with the Canadian company's Cuba business. You need to know where they are located in advance so you can protect the U.S. person.

[31:27] Justin notes that RIMS is a global society. Canada is the second-largest RIMS membership base.

[31:40] Justin says there's so much due diligence to be done. You have to vet the company you're going to be doing business with and do your second- and third-tier supply chain risk management deep dive to make sure that everything is above board.

[32:02] Cari says there are many examples where the Canadian Government has aggressively stepped up its sanctions components. The Canadian sanctions on Russian targets may be more aggressive than the U.S. or EU sanctions on Russia.

[32:19] If you have a financial institution or insurance company based in Canada, but operating in the U.S. and the EU, because they're complying with the Canadian sanctions, they're blocking transactions that a U.S. party wouldn't have to block.

[32:44] You want to know what the entire web of sanctions regulations is before you figure out who your business parties are and how you're going to navigate something.

[32:55] Justin surmises that a small company without a dedicated risk professional would need to reach out to a company like Steptoe. Cari agrees; a lot of people will use a law firm and a consultant to build out their compliance programs or to do the risk analysis.

[33:13] Cari says, then they will either find someone in-house or outsource it to a consultant or a specialist to keep costs down.

[33:23] Cari says, we also see this pop up in Mergers & Acquisitions. One of the things that is often difficult is that they will see the compliance function either as redundant or as a cost center, and not as a profit center.

[33:47] The guidance is always: Don't save costs by getting rid of your Compliance function, because it will cost you money in the long run. But often, that is what you will see.

[34:00] Justin brings up the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), a legislative priority for RIMS. RIMS sends an External Affairs Team to Capitol Hill every year to talk about TRIA with their Representatives in Congress.

[34:19] Justin says RIMS helped lead the charge, over 20 years ago, to get TRIA passed into law.

[34:30] The nature of terrorism risk has evolved since TRIA's enactment. Justin asks how risk managers should be thinking about terrorism exposure today, compared to when the program was established.

[34:44] Cari says terrorism, like the narcotics traffickers, evolves. It's cash-intensive. There's more you can do now through technology, AI, cybersecurity, and cryptocurrency.

[35:01] You can sit completely offshore and wreak havoc on the electrical grid or a utilities provider, or a financial institution, through cyberattacks or cybercrimes. It can be crippling if terrorists go after the grid.

[35:28] Cari says we have seen an overlap between what could be a terrorist attack and what is more likely a ransomware grab, when they're going after smaller utilities located somewhere in the Midwest. That seems to be a trend.

[35:45] They're not always sophisticated. You don't always know who the counterparties are. Going back to the Drug Control Strategy report, the Government is saying that there has to be a holistic approach to ransomware and cyberattacks.

[36:03] A couple of years ago, the FBI and Homeland Security set up a task force to work with the utilities or other U.S. businesses that see themselves faced with a ransomware attack that is either just for the money or is something more nefarious.

[36:24] Cari says, if the question is, is it terrorism or is it something else, but the way you would attack it would be the same if you're the utilities manager; it doesn't matter if it's terrorism or cybercrime.

[36:48] You've got to work with law enforcement to protect your infrastructure, to figure out whether you're going to pay the ransom or not, so that you can protect your customers' data.

[37:02] It's up to the Government to figure out who the illicit party was. Is it a hacker group sitting in Russia? Is it a terrorist group? Why were they doing it, and how do you stop it from happening in the future?

[37:18] If you're the Business Manager or the Compliance Officer, you need to build in your risks, your risk mitigation strategies, redundancies, and backup servers that are not connected. The problem for you isn't: Is this a hacker or a terrorist doing this to me?

[37:53] Cari says there are many insurance working groups. We've worked with clients, some of these groups, and the U.S. Government to come up with language that makes sense. We see it in the context of Iran or Russia, or with respect to language for War Risk in the Strait of Hormuz.

[38:32] Cari says, The partnership between the insurers, reinsurers, brokers, and Government is pretty deep.

[38:41] These working groups have been around for a long time because insurers, brokers, and reinsurers need buy-in from the Government to get assurances that the language they're putting out there is enough to get them out of trouble if they're acting in good faith.

[39:00] Generally, everyone is, but you want that nod from the Government that what you've done is sufficient from the Government's perspective.

[39:37] Cari's advice to risk professionals in August 2026: The most important thing is that the risk professionals and the business units know and trust each other.

[39:47] Cari continues: A risk professional isn't going to be able to build out a compliance program that works unless they know what the business units are up to and what the business priorities are, and they have the trust of the business professionals.

[40:05] Some critics warn that you don't want the compliance person to become a captive of the business units, driven by profit rather than compliance. Cari says the business compliance person needs the business unit and the compliance unit to work hand in glove. She explains it.

[40:46] Cari says we've seen this a lot with all of these businesses jumping into the Venezuela market. There's a lot of business upside but also a lot of risk. It may not be that there's a sanctions risk, but the longer-term risks are the money-laundering and corruption risks.

[41:26] Cari asks what happens ten years from now? If you're a compliance officer, you need to understand the upside to the business, which is lots of profit, but when you're drafting contracts and working with the business unit, how are you mitigating the risk that's five or 10 years out?

[41:44] Cari says the only way you do that is if the compliance and business units have a certain amount of trust and respect for each other.

[41:57] Cari says the Compliance Officer is not always the Risk Manager. Some businesses will have it siloed; some will have someone embedded. In some cases, there's no compliance person. They throw it onto a legal officer, and the legal officer can be spread fairly thin.

[42:13] Cari says you can work through trade associations to understand industry risk. You can hire consultants. You can hire law firms. The benchmarking is incredibly important to understand not only the opportunity but also the appropriate risk.

[42:49] Justin says this has been one of the most informative RIMScasts we've had in a while. I'm so glad we got a chance to tackle this topic. Cari, thank you so much for joining us here on RIMScast!

[42:45] Special thanks again to Cari Stinebower of Steptoe for joining us here on RIMScast! A link to her LinkedIn profile is in this episode's show notes.

[42:58] I have links on this episode's show notes to other RIMS coverage on sanctions, geopolitical tensions, and related supply chain risk. Also visit https://www.rmmagazine.com/.

[43:08] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[43:26] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[43:42] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[43:56] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[44:08] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

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About our guest: Cari Stinebower, Partner, Steptoe

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Sophie Grégoire Trudeau about her closing keynote for the RIMS Canada Conference. Justin asks Sophie about her connection to risk managers or risk professionals. Sophie explains that all decision-makers are risk assessors. Justin and Sophie address leadership in incredibly high-profile environments and the qualities Sophie believes define strong leadership today, when people are facing uncertainty, competing priorities, or significant change. Sophie explores the window of tolerance.

Sophie explains how Canada is often viewed internationally as collaborative and consensus-driven, and the uniquely Canadian approaches to leadership, wellness, or community that she believes have value on the global stage. Sophie touches on her wellness practices, the importance of adaptability, and what adaptability is.

Listen for Sophie's single most important principle she would share with risk professionals.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We are delighted to present an interview with one of Canada's national treasures, Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

[:39] Sophie is an author and mental wellness advocate, and will be the closing keynote speaker at the RIMS Canada Conference on October 21st. There's so much to discuss! But first…

[:49] Plugs: This is the last call for educational content submissions for RISKWORLD 2027, which will be in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. The deadline for submissions is August 21st, just a few days from the launch of this episode.

[1:07] The submissions link is in this episode's show notes.

[1:10] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. On August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day, in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:30] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[1:39] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:55] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[2:08] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[2:18] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." A link is in this episode's show notes.

[2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:49] On with the Show! I will be joined by a co-host today. She is the RIMS Canada National Conference Committee Chair and RIMScast Canada host, Aaron Lukoni. Aaron and I both wanted to interview our guest today, so we are sharing hosting duties.

[3:08] We are amped up for this interview with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The RIMScast Canada video of this interview will be available this week at https://www.rims.org/Canada.

[3:18] Sophie is the author of Closer Together: Knowing Ourselves, Loving Each Other, a Number 1 bestseller featured in Audible Canada's Best of 2024 list. She is the former wife of Justin Trudeau, former Prime Minister of Canada.

[3:35] We are excited that she will be the closing keynote for the RIMS Canada Conference, which will be held from October 18th through the 21st in Quebec City. Register at https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/.

[3:46] Today we will get a preview of her keynote and her perspective on risk management. She will open our minds to something called the window of tolerance. Learn more about her at https://www.sophiegregoiretrudeau.com/. There's a lot of energy in the RIMScast studio today. Let's get to it!

[4:05] Interview! Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, welcome to RIMScast!

[4:11] Sophie says to everybody listening that she is so, so happy to be here. She comments on the saying that life is not a private affair. She expounds that we have so much to learn from one another. Conversations like these are about business but even more about humanity.

[4:38] Sophie says humanity will never be lost. Whatever we think that AI will do to our world, humanity will reign. We have to make sure we understand humanity to be able to manage it well.

[4:56] Sophie says the etymology of the word risk is uncertain. It comes from the Italian word risco, having to do with navigation dangers. But some historians say it comes from a Greek word meaning root, cliff, or hazard.

[5:47] Sophie says, finance, through history, has changed the word risk to mean not only facing danger, but also the uncertainty surrounding the outcome of a decision.

[6:00] Sophie says she has talked with popes, queens, kings, farmers, teachers, nurses, and others who don't fit the definition of only being in risk assessment.

[5:22] But human beings, whatever they do in life, have been dedicated to countering the true nature of our primal brain, which doesn't like uncertainty.

[6:35] Sophie has a lot of respect and reverence for risk management people, who do this as their daily jobs, because it means that you've got to be seeing the world as it is and not from your perspective. Sophie says she finds that's what the world needs these days.

[7:06] Justin had the chance to listen to Sophie on some other shows, such as the Aspen Institute last year, and a show called Can't Be Sensored. Justin is listening to Sophie's audiobook, and he comments that she does a lot of research.

[7:33] Sophie says she keeps herself grounded, as a teacher and coach, so whenever she gets on a stage, whether she's talking to 50 people or 10,000, she has always done her research and homework. As she ages, she finds the homework is paying off. She never takes it for granted.

[8:24] Sophie says she was on the co-political path for almost 15 years. Assessing risk is all they do every day, and seeing how you can save the most vulnerable in every situation. When people see Sophie at events in high heels and a dress to mingle, that's not what politics is about at all.

[8:47] Sophie says politics is about serving each other, assessing risk, and making decisions with the most discernment, facts, and data, from a regulated state.

[9:00] Sophie says, if you look at the state of the world, so many leaders aren't well-regulated and aren't well-informed. When it comes to risk management, that is of absolute importance.

[9:16] Aaron asks Sophie what qualities define strong leadership in today's workforce and society, when facing uncertainty, competing priorities, and significant changes.

[9:34] Sophie says she is passionate about the answers to that question. Her life's devotion is studying the neuroscience behind personality. That's why she wrote Closer Together, to make it accessible to everybody, whether low-profile or high-profile.

[10:02] Sophie says what is really impressive in a true leader is the human capacity to see the world for what it is and not through who they are. That takes a lot of emotional regulation, emotional maturity, and a lot of work on one's inner world.

[10:17] Sophie introduces the concept of the window of tolerance. AI is coming at an incessant speed. Our brains are not ready for that speed.

[10:40] We're being bombarded with information and new situations at the high rate of efficiency of machines, and we're just trying to adapt. We're all in reaction mode.

[10:54] When we're in reaction mode, and we're not prepared for whatever risk is coming, we are brought back to our own window of tolerance. It's part of being a human being.

[11:17] Sophie says your first childhood bond of attachment, in your pre-verbal years, makes you the leader that you are today. From zero to two years old, you form a bond of attachment called the epistemic bond of trust.

[11:34] The epistemic bond of trust is the first bond of trust you build with another human being, the person who took care of you, and the outside world.

[11:44] It's a dance; a vocal, visual, earful dance, nervous system to nervous system, right brain to right brain, the hemisphere responsible for the emotional development of the human brain. That dance lasts from zero to two years.

[12:08] Sophie says it sets a tone in your nervous system. Did you have a parent who was present? What was the quality, the consistency, the presence, and the playfulness? What is the tone that it set in your nervous system as a child?

[12:27] You carry this in every single adult relationship that you'll ever have, including the ones with your employees or your colleagues.

[12:35] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.

[12:57] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.

[13:05] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[13:17] Reach out to Ted Donovan at TDonovan@RIMS.org or reach out to Sales at Sales@RIMS.org. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[13:30] Let's Return to Our Dialog about Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau!

[13:38] Sophie says, when you're put in front of a decision where you have to weigh the risk, and when you know that there are risks implicated in the outcome, people in risk management and finance say there will be no revenue without risk, so you have to take risk. How do you assess it?

[14:02] Sophie says it comes back to your nervous system and your capacity to see the world as it is and not as you are.

[14:08] If your first childhood bond of attachment was insecure, anxious, or disorganized, you're not starting with a solid base of being able to adapt to unusual circumstances. Right now, we are living in abnormal circumstances.

[14:28] Sophie says we're pathologizing a lot of our conditions: from ADHD to so many other psychological conditions, but most experts will tell you we're not sick people; we're just trying to adapt the nervous system we were given to abnormal living circumstances.

[14:45] Sitting at a desk for 12 hours a day, not moving, eating poorly, or not sleeping well will affect our capacity to lead.

[14:55] Sophie says our window of tolerance is like a bell curve between an upper and a lower line. Your window of tolerance is within those two lines. Some people's bell curve is halfway between the two lines. Some people are more at the peak; some are more at the flat line.

[15:36] It depends on how you were able to construct your capacity to adapt to change from what you received in early childhood, from your experiences through childhood, and whether you know or not about your own trauma and suffering.

[15:51] Sophie says suffering is a normal part of human life. Trauma is what happens when we don't look efficiently at our suffering and when we don't know how to manage our emotions, whether you're a parent, a student, or a leader in a position where you have to take risks.

[16:15] Sophie says our window of tolerance is a good metaphor for how we assess risk and how we lead teams into risk, and how we can mitigate risk and the outcomes of risk. Sometimes we face bad situations. How do we adapt to that?

[16:37] Aaron mentions it's our emotional regulation. Sophie says, from the beginning to the grave, our capacity to emotionally regulate ourselves, especially in difficult situations, makes us courageous leaders or not.

[16:56] Sophie says, in this window of tolerance, we can insert a more precise marker for capacity to adapt, which is Heart Rate Variability (HRV). This is your capacity to go from a very stressful situation back to homeostasis, a balanced nervous system.

[17:13] Sophie asks, What are you presented with in your company? What are your clients asking for? How much risk are you assessing, and how can you take really difficult situations and come back to a regulated team, a regulated balance sheet, and a regulated vision for your enterprise?

[17:31] Sophie says, as much as we are at risk with technology, it is also an ally because it gives us facts and data, which we cannot push away. Science is on our side when it comes to leadership, because we understand the importance of regulation at every step.

[17:53] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By contributing, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[18:13] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[18:27] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[18:46] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[18:54] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS Canada Conference Keynote Sophie Grégoire Trudeau!

[19:03] Justin asks Sophie for an example of a person she has met with a broad window of tolerance. Sophie says she is quite discerning when it comes to picking people like that.

[19:29] One man Sophie has been impressed with in his capacity to regulate emotionally, would be Barack Obama in his personality; his capacity to stay regulated in front of the obstacle.

[19:53] Sophie refers to what has been done in Canada in the past 15 years, and people who have sacrificed their families and have been so courageous in the face of uncertainty.

[20:05] Sophie says Chancellor Angela Merkel from Germany is the type of woman who has a very stoic way of dealing with conflict.

[20:17] There are so many. There are a lot of people who have impressed Sophie who are not known to the public. She has also seen it in her home, including her former partner and colleagues. Sophie has a lot of respect for public servants. [20:54] Sophie says, obviously, the Dalai Lama and Buddhist monks she has met and whom she admires.

[21:04] Sophie says discerning spirituality is wisdom from a place where you are in such deep service that every decision you make, even risk decisions, looks to a greater force that can guide us through its humanity, in cohesion and integrity, qualities that make a leader outstanding.

[21:54] Justin views Canada as a collaborative, consensus-driven nation. He asks Sophie if there are uniquely Canadian approaches to leadership, wellness, or community that have value on the global stage.

[22:11] Sophie says, Yes. She has seen it from the inside out. She had such a unique position. She says another great quality of a leader is staying close to people and not building walls between them. You come from a place of non-threat, so differences are not a threat but a plus.

[22:34] Sophie thinks that Canada sits on this basin of such talent and diversity that allows Canadians in their daily lives not to tolerate risk and difference but to accept it as part of their way of living. Sophie speaks of this on shows. Canada is not at risk of extremism.

[23:06] Sophie says Canada has a discerning social hand of wisdom. Canada counts on it. They need to keep feeding that hand. They can't take it for granted.

[23:26] Sophie mentions that Canada has diversity, has more women in the boardroom, and in the past decade, how many women have run in politics has changed, which has changed the landscape as well.

[23:41] Sophie says the data has proven that more women in governance, in the boardroom, and in politics means more empathy, more open leadership, and more inclusivity, and the world needs this now, on all levels. Canada is proud of this. Every day is another day to get better.

[24:03] Sophie says that all the best leaders she has spoken to, whether Olympic athletes or trainers, doctors, or risk assessment specialists, it's about every time you do well, you celebrate the small wins, but you always know you can do better.

[24:22] How is it that we can do better? How is it that we can adapt better and make everyone better at the same time? In co-politics, when we invest in the middle class, it's because we know the data shows that it lifts poverty up.

[24:40] Sophie says in a company, if you celebrate diversity, include people, celebrate the small wins, and elevate in your style of leadership, instead of dominating, you'll give yourself better chances to create a performing, cohesive team that can deal with great troubles.

[25:12] Justin says, Sophie, we are so excited to see you in Quebec on October 21st at 8:30 a.m. Sophie is a morning person.

[25:52] Aaron asks, If you could leave risk leaders around the world with one idea from Closer Together, that would help them build stronger organizations, not just stronger people, what would you hope that they're going to take away from that?

[26:05] Sophie says, Know yourself. Know yourself. Get to the core of who you are. Leave all the titles, accomplishments, and risks aside for a moment and go back to who you are and how you function.

[26:22] Sophie mentions the 7 Cs: Competence, Creativity, Courage, Communication, Coaching, knowing your inner Compass, and Citizenship. It starts by knowing who you are as a human being and becoming the best leader that you can be. Aaron thanks Sophie for that great advice.

[27:22] Special thanks again to Sophie Grégoire Trudeau for joining us here on RIMScast. Catch the video dialog on RIMScast Canada, which you can find at https://www.rims.org/canada. Of course, remember to register for the RIMS Canada Conference at https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/.

[27:40] We will see you in Quebec City from October 18th through 21st.

[27:45] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[28:02] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[28:19] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[28:32] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[28:44] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the full video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026 | RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction nominations open through Aug. 21!

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21.

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

https://sophiegregoiretrudeau.com/

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RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | Sept 1‒2

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

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Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Distilling Risk and Resilience with Manjit K. Minhas"

"On Resilience with Amanda Lindhout"

"Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume"

"Energy Efficiency, Mental Health Awareness, and Risk with Nick Quigley"

"Live from Calgary at the RIMS Canada Conference 2025"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

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"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

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RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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About our guest: Sophie Grégoire Trudeau

Author. Keynote Speaker. Mental Health Advocate.

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews RIMS SERMC Member Eric Lobser about his career path at Spire Inc. They discuss his start in Budget Analysis at Laclede Gas, which eventually became Spire Inc. He moved into Operations, Treasury, and then Strategic Planning, including Acquisitions. He continued his career as VP of Enterprise Risk Management. Eric shares how he grew into that position, using knowledge he had gained from all the departments he had worked with. He tells about his early presentations to the Board.

Eric explains what ERM means to him, and how ERM helps companies manage risks, including reputation, engage in opportunities, and make the resource allocation decisions that lead to success and mitigate failures.

Listen for Eric's idea to improve the ERM acronym.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Eric Lobser. He was a practitioner in the natural gas sector for 35 years. We're going to get his ERM philosophies today. But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[1:13] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:28] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:41] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[1:51] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:10] On with the Show! We will take a deep dive into Enterprise Risk Management with Eric Lobser. Eric recently retired from a 35-year career in the natural gas sector. He remained with one company that eventually became Spire Energy.

[2:26] Eric is also a member of the RIMS Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council.

[2:32] We will discuss his career journey, how one role led to the next before settling on Enterprise Risk Management, and his philosophies on what makes ERM truly valuable and why the acronym could use an upgrade. Let's get to it!

[2:52] Interview! Eric Lobser, Welcome to RIMScast!

[3:17] Justin and Eric met last year during a webinar. Eric has a fascinating career. His entire career was at Spire. Originally, it was Laclede Gas Company. Then it became The Laclede Group, and then Spire. Eric's career was 35 years and some months long.

[3:53] Justin says that shows our audience that you can have a risk career at one company. You don't need to jump around. If you're doing well, if you're comfortable, if the company's treating you right, and you're doing a good job.

[4:10] Eric says the risk career came later in his life. It was the culmination of a lot of other things he did. He had a varied set of positions at Spire. Over time, it was multiple types of companies. As you go through CEOs, things change.

[4:31] Eric says he was there for about five CEOs and got to see many different sides of how business operates.

[4:49] Eric says he graduated from Boston College in 1990. It was a tough job market. He wanted a job on the East Coast, but it was an expensive place not to have a job. He went back home.

[5:08] His stepfather had a contact at the Laclede Gas Company. He interviewed, and they offered him a position, which he took. Within two weeks, he thought he would be crazy to stay at that company more than a couple of years. He thought it was odd they had a few computers.

[5:29] Eric came from a school with a library full of computers. You had to sign up to use them. It taught him to use his mind, and it instilled patience. Those elements have been valuable to Eric's career.

[6:06] Eric started as a budget analyst and did that for about a year and a half, in the corporate office in downtown St. Louis.

[6:33] Then he was fortunate to move to Operations to do the same sort of work with all the department heads to help them with their budgeting, to translate things from Operations into financial terms and get better relationships with the people who ran the business.

[6:53] Eric says he got to understand the business better from the view of the boots on the street.

[7:04] Justin asks if risk management and ERM came onto Eric's radar in August 2001, when he became the Managing Director for Strategic Planning and Corporate Development.

[7:18] Eric says that he had also worked with property insurance in Treasury. There's a big commodity risk at a natural gas company. There are also market risks and credit risks.

[7:33] Eric says Strategic Planning was new to The Laclede Group, taking the budget period and extending it out three years, rolling in strategy and planning.

[7:49] Eric helped them to develop software for business planning, custom-made from Access, to help support the Balance Scorecard they rolled out. It included something for Initiatives for making improvements, which were tied to Metrics.

[8:11] There were Action Items. There was a section where you laid out your different risks and what you were doing to mitigate them. The Action Items often required support from other areas. The software would put that into their business plan so they could see it and collaborate.

[8:33] Eric says risk management and collaboration are hand-in-hand.

[9:09] Eric speaks of a change in leadership, where they went from mostly looking at operational excellence and continual improvement to a more external look at other businesses, at ways to diversify within the gas industry: storage, pipeline, E&P, and more.

[9:40] That was the beginning of the thought processes Eric would go through, looking at different businesses; what can go right with them, and what can go wrong.

[9:57] Part of modeling acquisitions is taking a look at those scenarios and looking for the probability of a downside, what that downside looks like, and what will drive it. What has to go right to have the best case? What does the base case look like? What are those probabilities?

[10:20] Eric says that was the beginning of understanding how risk and business go hand-in-hand. They can't have opportunity without risk. There's no reward without risk. Understanding that was an element of that job.

[10:39] Eric was fortunate to have a tremendous boss during that time who helped him gain critical thinking about how things operate.

[10:58] Eric says when they were looking at how other companies operate, they were companies within the gas industry, to stay within their knowledge base, and simplify their business, within the natural gas value chain, from wellhead to burner tip.

[11:30] They were looking at exploration & production, gathering & processing, pipelines, underground storage, down to uses for it, including compressed natural gas for vehicles and local distribution utilities.

[11:58] Justin suggests that the 13-year period when Eric was in Strategic Planning and Corporate Development, holding several positions, was a key time in his career. Eric says yes, and it was his favorite period. He had gone to school for investment banking and acquisitions.

[12:42] Eric says, at the same time, it was a tremendous amount of work. He thought maybe it wasn't the best place to spend his lifetime because of the level of work and stress involved.

[13:04] Eric was married and raising a family, and that had to come into play, as well. He says while his wife was extremely patient with him during all those times, sometimes working around the clock, he felt it wasn't the right long-term opportunity for him.

[13:20] Eric says one of the things he learned when he was doing acquisitions was developing models for how utilities make money. Eric worked with people who did rate cases at the company, to understand what drove cash flow.

[13:47] In doing that, Eric learned how regulations work and how tariffs work. That led to asking himself, if this isn't the right career for me, taking a look at something next to it, which was regulatory and government affairs.

[14:27] Eric had already started to learn about it. Once he was in charge, he based it on Missouri regulations. The first acquisition was a company in Kansas City, Missouri.

[15:05] The second acquisition was Alagasco in Alabama, and that was a completely different type of ratemaking approach that was annual. They had a formal department. Eric was asked to develop something more formal for the entire company.

[15:21] Eric says then they acquired Energy South, which brought them into Mobile and also Mississippi, a third rate jurisdiction. There was a mountain of information to climb. His drive and thirst for knowledge helped him up the curve pretty quickly.

[15:53] Eric says relationships and the stuff between the lines are just as important as what you can read about and study.

[16:12] Eric says, pulling from his enterprise risk career, one of the impacts is not just financial, but reputation. Reputation is a huge element of rate setting. Your reputation precedes you to the commission that oversees rate case litigation and the parties to the case.

[16:47] The parties that are involved include industrials, AARP, low-income groups, an energy efficiency group, and other parties.

[17:01] Understanding where they're coming from, and what they're trying to achieve, and working towards something that gives all parties some of what they want, is a key element.

[17:18] If you were a bad operator; if you had a significant incident that showed you weren't a safe operator, or you weren't treating your customers well, then going into the rate case, people had their minds set that they wanted to give you not a rate increase but a rate reduction.

[17:40] The value of the relationships and the reputation, the stuff that is gray and in between the lines, is not just about what the numbers are but who you are as a business.

[17:56] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[18:12] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[18:29] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[18:45] Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information. Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[19:00] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is now open.

[19:10] Through August 21st, you can nominate a program for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. If you know of an ERM Program that is award-worthy, we want to hear about it. A link to the nomination form is in this episode's show notes. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[19:29] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! The call for session proposals is now live and will stay active through August 21st.

[19:44] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[20:04] Let's Return to Our Interview with Eric Lobser!

[20:31] Justin asks about compliance at a natural gas company. Eric says his career at a critical infrastructure utility delivering a relatively volatile product to people's homes was very safety-oriented with a lot of rules, regulations, and areas of compliance.

[21:04] The whole industry faced a need to replace some of its aging infrastructure. That started when Eric was in Treasury and trying to think about how they would afford all the replacements they were going through.

[21:22] It came again when Eric was in Regulatory, trying to understand the balance between safety and rates and what's best for the business and what's best for the customer.

[21:53] Compliance is not something you can decide to do a little bit or a lot. You have to meet at least the minimum standards. Spire was always at that point but also found the benefit of going beyond that, to deal with it a little bit more strategically.

[22:14] Spire was generally a group that looked at opportunities to do replacement in a way that overall was more cost-effective, exceeding requirements on their compliance. Compliance was an enterprise risk.

[22:34] Eric says it was not just making sure they were in compliance, but also what the cost of compliance is and what if people change their minds and all of a sudden want us to do this or that? [22:53] Being a regulated utility, your rates are dependent on somebody deciding you deserve to have this.

[23:02] Compliance was more often not physical replacement but putting in another pipe beside the old pipe and terminating the old cast iron pipe that had degraded and become a safety issue.

[23:26] Spire always paid attention to where they were getting leaks or water potentially getting into the system and areas of geography that had similar types of risk.

[23:39] Spire took a strategic approach to look at the information they were getting and figure out where to go and do wholesale changes rather than responding to risks as they popped up.

[23:54] Eric says that was the approach where they took compliance and said if we do more, it probably can be better for us and better for the customer to take a better strategic approach.

[24:19] Eric says it's inconvenient and sometimes problematic for people when there are workers in the street. Part of Eric's career was dealing with claims and issues that can happen with construction. The construction was necessary to make sure the system was safe.

[24:53] Eric says the most prevalent claims were when they were doing excavation and hit something unmapped, like an underground dog fence or sprinkler system. To be cost-effective, they used reliable outside partners to replace these.

[26:44] Eric says that every year, when he was in Strategic Planning, he would help put on a two-day conference for the Board to review company strategy and present new ideas.

[27:01] Any time they found an acquisition opportunity that met the muster of the executives, they presented that to the Board.

[27:!3] Eric says the Board is extremely interested in rate cases, which are the heart and soul of a utility's business.

[27:28] Something Eric found helpful later in his career, doing regulatory work, was to pull together parties without overlapping interests, such as the Board and the Public Service Commission, to help them find agreement on why something was beneficial for the customers.

[28:58] Eric says, for the first time or two, presenting to the Board was frightening. He was fortunate enough not to be leading the presentations. He reported to officers who helped develop the business planning and strategy. They helped Eric work his way into bigger roles.

[29:32] Eric says when he became more involved in doing the modeling, one time he was called by the CEO to speak to the Board while he was on a family vacation. His wife reminds him of this. The Board was very interested in the upside case and downside case of a model scenario.

[30:31] Eric says in that phone call he had to give the Board a rigorous view of why they should spend $1.1 billion on this acquisition. While exciting, Eric says presenting to the Board was a very stressful part of the job. They're relying on things that he's saying to them.

[31:12] Eric says acquisitions have their own timeline and they develop however they want to. It's not like going to the grocery store to pick up something. When something pops, it pops, and it's all hands on deck. You don't stop until the job is done.

[31:35] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[31:55] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[32:09] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting https://www.rims.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[32:28] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at https://www.rims.org/FRM.

[32:36] Let's Return to Our Interview with Eric Lobser!

[32:52] Eric says that it seems to him that if people viewed Enterprise Risk Management more as Enterprise Value Management, they would better understand that it's more about what you need to do to improve the value of your company.

[33:19] In Eric's Strategic Planning days in Corporate Acquisitions, he learned that Expected Value is about changing probabilities, not just the impact of those probabilities.

[33:32] Eric says Enterprise Risk Management does a great job of addressing both the likelihood and the impact of things going wrong and things going right. What you're building with ERM is value. You're adding to the value of the company.

[33:46] Eric thinks more people would engage. It would resonate with a lot of the corporate cultures to look at ERM as a way to build value for the company.

[34:08] Justin says that for almost eight years, Eric was the Spire VP of ERM. Justin asks if Eric was able to hit the ground running, going from Regulatory and Government Affairs into ERM.

[34:32] Eric says the position started with Insurance, and then Commodity Risk Management, other elements of the business that helped him up the learning curve. From Acquisitions, Regulatory, Operations, and Customer Service, Eric understood a lot about the business.

[34:55] Eric says having a couple of years when he was in charge of Spire's Insurance program, including Captive Management, where you retain risk instead of transferring it, was a great transition to eventually getting Enterprise Risk.

[35:31] Eric says he read every book he could get his hands on in the time he had. He noticed some of the things they were doing were based on ISO 31000. Eric read through ISO and COSO. COSO felt very intricate and detailed.

[36:10] Eric asked himself what the potential was that we were going to adopt something. The culture of the business manages the risk. ERM oversees how the business manages risk. Eric wanted to pick a framework that fit more with Spire's corporate culture.

[36:39] Eric says ISO 31000 is adjustable. He felt like it was a good fit. It was more about strategy and enterprise than Spire's focus had been. It was not just about what could go wrong and what they should be concerned about happening, but what must go right.

[37:22] Eric says that looped in what he learned in Strategy, what they have to do to be successful, and what could derail them from that. Spire transitioned a little bit less away from risks and more to strategic imperatives and what they had to do to achieve their strategic vision.

[38:02] Justin asks about ERM conferences and what makes a great ERM session. Eric says it's a practitioner who has lived through it with real-world experience on what works, what doesn't work, and why it didn't work.

[38:18] Eric says everything's specific to the company, so what works for one may not work for another. An experienced practitioner brings a level of credibility that is important. Eric wants a presenter who focuses on what helps a company be more successful in executing its strategy.

[38:41] Eric says a lot of presentations go into risk registers and software, but in the end, risk management is change management, with very complex systems. The presenter should speak to engaging the business, getting different areas to collaborate, and making better decisions.

[39:31] Eric says those decisions are about how you allocate resources. Resources are limited. You can't do everything, so you prioritize.

[39:41] ERM helps you to prioritize better, using a process of identification and assessment, to help you understand how important a risk is in relation to other risks, how soon it needs to be dealt with, and what level of mitigation and controls you already have in place.

[40:13] Eric says, ERM helps you determine if this risk is extremely well-managed and there are resources you can take away from it to put toward a risk that's less well-mitigated.

[40:22] Eric says a good ERM session presenter talks about how ERM helps a corporation make better decisions and effectuate those resource allocations that then help that company to be more successful. That's what ERM is about, and when somebody talks about that, it resonates.

[41:02] Eric says when he hears a concept that really resonates with him, he tries to pull those concepts together. He has used principles from the Enterprise Risk Oversight Committee.

[41:44] Justin says the Global ERM Award of Distinction call for submissions is open. You can send in those nominations now. RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction nominations are open through Aug. 21!

[41:57] Justin asks Eric what makes an Enterprise Risk Management program award-worthy. Eric says some of it is going to be based on the eye of the beholder. Enterprise Risk should be customized to the culture. People are going to view what makes a great program differently.

[42:28] Eric says that the SERMC is looking for, with the diverse perspectives of the members, a program that is well-integrated into Strategic Planning, helps the business make decisions, and most importantly, helps it be more successful, with fewer downturns, than their competitors.

[43:09] Eric says the business manages risk. ERM can help oversee what they're looking at and turn its attention to important things, and help determine the best ways to mitigate or treat risk, or support what they are doing, so the strategy prevents threats from derailing the company.

[43:33] Eric says, in the end, a company that is consistently successful is probably the mark of a good Enterprise Risk Management program.

[43:51] Justin says, we're going to see you again on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio at the RIMS ERM Conference. You can get your nominations in now for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. We'll have a special awards ceremony, like we do every year.

[44:07] Eric, it has been such a pleasure to have you on RIMScast! I look forward to seeing you in Columbus.

[44:19] Special thanks again to Eric Lobser for joining us here on RIMScast. We appreciate him and all the great work he does for the RIMS SERMC. The call for nominations for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction is open; a link is in this episode's show notes.

[44:36] There are specific attributes that will make a nomination truly award-worthy. Submit your nominations today!

[44:42] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[45:00] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[45:16] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[45:29] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[45:41] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026 | RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction nominations open through Aug. 21!

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21.

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | Sept 1‒2

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Board Reporting and ERM in 2026 with Trisha Sqrow and Suzanne Christensen"

"The Future of Strategic Risk Management" with John Button

"Mid-Year Risk Roundup 2026 with Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle"

"Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume"

"Strategy and Change with Ward Ching and Aaron Olson"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.

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About our guest: Eric Lobser, SERMC Member

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews APIW President Dawnmarie Black about her role at Amwins and her journey to get there, starting with clerical work in her father's insurance agency. Dawnmarie speaks about the great training program she received early in her career, being mentored, joining an association board, and growing her career through being mentored, networking, connecting, building relationships, being mentored, and leadership. She emphasizes communication and transparency as the basis of relationships. Justin and Dawnmarie discuss upcoming trends in risk, recruiting talent, and retaining professionals with a culture of trust and development. Dawnmarie speaks of Amwins's innovative outreach to underrepresented children and HBCUs about the insurance industry. Finally, Dawnmarie focuses on her association work and the upcoming APIW 50th Anniversary Gala on November 3rd in NYC.

Listen for themes of communication, connection, and relationship building.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined today by Dawnmarie Black of Amwins. She is also the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW). But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[1:12] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:28] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:41] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[1:51] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:08] On with the Show! Our guest today is Dawnmarie Black. She is the Senior Vice President and Client Relationship Manager at Amwins, and she is the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW).

[2:26] We'll talk a bit about her career journey, what she believes it takes to attract and retain talent in insurance and risk management, and the interconnected risks that are on her radar. Let's get to it!

[2:39] Interview! Dawnmarie Black, Welcome to RIMScast!

[2:48] Justin says, you know Dawnmarie Black from Amwins, and she is also the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW). Justin is wearing their pin.

[3:21] Dawnmarie is a Client Relationship Manager at Amwins. She builds relationships with retail trading partners. It's a strategic national, corporate relationship across the U.S.

[3:35] Dawnmarie works and collaborates with their market placement teams or carrier strategy teams and Amwins internal brokers.

[3:44] There's a lot of collaboration to ensure that Amwins brokers are finding the opportunities and so the client and Amwins understand how Amwins fits into their strategic priorities, and to grow both businesses.

[4:04] Dawnmarie says she and her team are there to support the retail brokers and also support Amwins's internal brokers in their growth initiatives.

[4:13] Dawnmarie joined Amwins in September of 2025.

[4:32] Dawnmarie's father owned an insurance agency in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She worked at his agency from age 16. She went to Allegheny College in Meadville and worked at a local agency. She did a lot of mailroom, file room, cold calling, and CSR work.

[4:59] Dawnmarie thought she would ultimately move up in her father's agency and someday be the succession plan. He sold it, and Dawnmarie went to work for Chubb in their training program. It was a phenomenal start into this industry. They had a great training program.

[5:16] Dawnmarie says a lot of her group are still colleagues and friends today, which set the stage for her career.

[5:21] Dawnmarie says she moved through underwriting and brokerage, she built and launched an IT system at Aon, and went back to underwriting for a while. Most recently, Dawnmarie was the head of market development for the Americas at Lloyd's of London.

[5:54] Dawnmarie says it was an incredible role to understand what's happening in the global marketplace, at a 30,000-foot view, working with coders in the U.S. very closely. This is how she got to Amwins. She was promoting the Lloyd's market to the Amwins leadership team.

[6:37] Justin finds it fascinating that Dawnmarie was not the successor to her father but made her own way in the insurance industry. She learned it from the ground up. She has touched every part of the industry except for claims. She has come full circle, working with retailers again.

[7:04] Dawnmarie says it has been a very interesting and fulfilling journey. She feels like it has placed her well to be in a position like this, to be working with Amwins's retailers.

[7:36] Dawnmarie says she establishes trust with people through communication and transparency. She tells it like it is. She also will go the extra mile, out of her way to make sure things get done. At Amwins, there is a service leadership culture.

[8:01] Dawnmarie says she is there to help; to help direct, to help move things, or to help resolve things, at a very strategic, macro level. That fills her cup. She owns up to what she is promising.

[8:19] Dawnmarie says, if she tells you she is going to get something done, she will get it done, to the best of her ability, or there will be a very good reason why it hasn't been done. It's important to communicate that.

[8:39] Dawnmarie says she thinks that the next generation of leaders exhibits these qualities. They are thoughtful and demanding and have high expectations. When Dawnmarie entered the industry, the culture required her to prove herself. There was a way to approach the business.

[9:14] Dawnmarie says the Chubb training program was 12 weeks in their training center in Warren, New Jersey. You learned the policy forms, how to work with insureds, and understand needs. You understood risk. You learned underwriting and pricing.

[9:36] The emphasis was understanding the business. Unfortunately for our young risk professionals, there are not as many programs like that available today.

[9:49] Dawnmarie says you find companies that are putting training programs together. Amwins has an underwriter development program that is outstanding. A lot of the business produced in Amwins comes from those who have come through the UDP or a broker development program.

[10:05] Dawnmarie says our industry has gotten away from the super-formalized training programs, probably to the detriment of our younger professionals, but we're all stepping in and finding ways to fill those gaps.

[10:30] Justin concludes that Dawnmarie had an analog, hands-on, pen-and-paper training program.

[11:06] Dawnmarie joined the APIW early in her career. She would go to two or three monthly luncheons a year. Then she left APIW for a few years.

[11:26] About 10 years ago, while she was at Lloyd's, Dawnmarie was asked to join the board of APIW and get more involved. There, Dawnmarie held the roles of Co-head of Programming, then Treasurer, and ultimately, she was asked to step into the President position.

[11:46] Dawnmarie says she has seen the incredible evolution of APIW, going from 500 members to 3,500 members in 11 chapters across the U.S. with 60 corporate sponsorships. APIW has grown since the first time Dawnmarie was involved.

[12:20] Dawnmarie says that in her early 40s, she went to her first Women's Leadership Conference by the Insurance Industry Charitable Foundation (IICF). There weren't a lot of events like that then. Dawnmarie was struggling to figure out what she wanted in her career.

[12:50] At this Women's Leadership Conference, a woman spoke on the importance of getting involved, joining boards, and growing your network. Dawnmarie had always done that organically, but she hadn't done it thoughtfully. It was client-driven.

[13:08] Dawnmarie went back to management and said that IICF board positions go to sponsor companies. She asked if Lloyd's would sponsor IICF and could she be chosen as the board member? That's where she got her first board experience.

[13:24] Dawnmarie moved up and ended up Co-chair of the Boston Chapter. She learned a lot, and it prepared her for APIW.

[13:41] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. This is a last call for registration for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk.

[13:58] Visit https://www.rims.org/Events for registration information. The hotel cutoff date was July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the hotel cutoff date, subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed, so reserve now.

[14:14] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[14:25] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[14:41] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[14:58] Visit https://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information. Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[15:13] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is now open.

[15:22] Through August 21st, you can nominate a program for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. If you know of an ERM Program that is award-worthy, we want to hear about it. A link to the nomination form is in this episode's show notes. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[15:41] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! The call for session proposals is now live and will stay active through August 21st.

[15:56] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[16:16] Let's Return to Our Interview with APIW President Dawnmarie Black!

[16:40] Dawnmarie says that the importance of building relationships with communication and transparency applies to risk managers as well.

[16:49] Dawnmarie says that risk managers getting to know their brokers and underwriters, building relationships, telling their story, building trust, and understanding the insurance and why a specific carrier is being suggested goes a long way if there's a claim or wording issue.

[17:47] Dawnmarie says with the relationships established, with the ability to pick up the phone and say, "We need to have a conversation," you've already set the stage.

[18:11] Dawnmarie says emerging risks the insurance industry needs to pay attention to in the next three to five years include addressing AI. Will AI drive margins down? We need to leverage it to do our jobs better. We can't just decide that we're simply going to depend on it.

[18:37] AI exists. It's there as a tool. We need to prepare our people to be able to assess it, analyze it, understand it, and program the prompts. The best prompt writers are getting the best results.

[18:56] It doesn't mean it's a perfect result, so you need the ability to communicate, analyze, and explain why the output makes sense and how it applies.

[19:20] Another emerging need is for more and more data and the ability to depend on that data, using AI to help understand it and being able to explain the data to the board why they can take a larger retention, or why we need more cover in this area.

[19:54] Dawnmarie talks about weather-related events. Catastrophic events aren't going away; they're getting worse. Illinois has had more convective storms this year than any other state. It's unexpected and unprepared for.

[20:16] The unexpected storm volume creates a shift for the underwriters, clients, and brokers, making sure they have the data to understand what's been exposed and what's been impacted.

[20:30] The models need to address these shifts. We need, as an industry, to be pushing for that: the stronger the models, the more differentiated the models we can have.

[20:42] Maybe that's where AI plays a great role, helping us in the changing and adaptation. These are trends Dawnmarie watches. She is so impressed with the data that Amwins has to work with.

[21:06] When you have that good data, the world opens up to capital and new strategies. It makes a big difference in where an organization will go strategically. That impacts everybody.

[21:23] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.

[21:44] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.

[21:52] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[22:05] Reach out to Ted Donovan at TDonovan@RIMS.org or reach out to Sales at Sales@RIMS.org. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[22:18] Let's Conclude Our Dialog with APIW President Dawnmarie Black!

[22:54] To help make insurance careers more appealing to young professionals and career changers, Dawnmarie asks you to stop saying, "I just fell into insurance." We have a story to tell.

[23:13] There is a reason someone came into this industry. It probably wasn't planned, but how they got started and why they stayed; we need to talk more about why people stay in insurance. Because they love it! It is a wonderful ecosystem for growth and travel. It's stable.

[23:37] APIW just held Intern Days, one in New York, one in Chicago. This was their first year in Chicago, and about 20 people came. It was their second year in New York. About 50 came.

[23:51] Dawnmarie says we do this out of our budget. There's no charge for it. We bring the interns together for four hours. They do a leadership panel, networking, and answering questions.

[24:04] Dawnmarie says a lot of other associations do this. She mentions RISE Professionals. They had a terrific Leadership Conference and Gala in Florida.

[24:20] That's an opportunity for young professionals to come together with very good programming around leadership. Networking with their peers and colleagues. Dressing up and going to a gala and celebrating. Dawnmarie has heard only positive feedback about that.

[24:38] APIW supports RISE. RISE supports the APIW Mentorship Program. You'll see a lot of interconnectivity among the insurance associations. They partner to share great programs rather than duplicating efforts. It helps both associations.

[25:01] The market in Charlotte rallies around Community Matters. There was a week-long session two weeks ago bringing in young children from under-represented communities to learn and understand about insurance.

[25:20] Dawnmarie says those kinds of programs where we're reaching out to talent, not only through traditional risk management schools, but looking at non-traditional avenues and non-traditional diversity avenues, and the HBCUs. The Black Sisterhood does incredible work.

[26:05] Justin gives a shoutout to the Spencer Educational Foundation. Dawnmarie says they have done such an incredible job in rallying the industry.

[26:22] At the Spencer dinner, when the young professionals get up to speak, they are inspirational in their careers and their appreciation for the opportunities to come into this industry. Justin doesn't know how they found time to sleep, doing all they did while in college.

[26:57] Justin and Dawnmarie discuss some of the speakers. He says, you hear these young people and wonder if they partied at all in college or were they just working on their risk management career? Justin notes there is the monetary incentive of scholarships and grants.

[27:41] Dawnmarie speaks of the incredible amount of work ethic she sees in the students who have come through the Spencer Educational Foundation program. Justin says they inspire him to work a little harder.

[28:08] Justin asks how we can keep the newer professionals engaged and committed to a long career. Dawnmarie says what seems to be important to them is that sense of community.

[28:24] We all come to work to work, but there's also the culture that you create, the culture of trust, and the idea that there are mentorship opportunities, and more senior people in the organization looking out for you, helping propel your career and answering your questions.

[28:48] Dawnmarie says that is key when you've got the younger generation, and you've got an experienced generation. In our industry, we have four or five different generations rolling through, all who come at things slightly differently.

[29:03] Dawnmarie says it's about understanding where people are coming from. She speaks of investing in talent development programs and professional programs, allowing talent the opportunity to become involved in outside associations, and encouraging networking.

[29:40] Dawnmarie closes this thought with the Amwins program, RTTP. They have people on the retirement track, senior brokers with books of business, and they have young people who are coming through the Broker Development Program.

[30:14] Two get matched up. There's a relationship formed. The client is taken care of because there's succession planning and consistency. The two are learning from each other. The books are passed off.

[30:28] There's respect for the experience that the senior broker brings to the table, and there's respect for what that young person is learning. Dawnmarie hasn't seen a lot of that across the industry. One of the things that enticed her about Amwins is that approach to the generations.

[30:54] Justin says kudos to Amwins. He has met some Amwins folks at Riskworld, and they're lovely. A Justin and Dawnmarie have in common is Liz King Kramer, a former APIW President. Liz gave Justin an APIW pin.

[31:18] Dawnmarie says Liz is the best! She has been mentoring Dawnmarie for over four years. Liz was Treasurer before Dawnmarie, and President before Dawnmarie. Liz helped Dawnmarie learn in both roles. She's become a terrific friend and partner.

[31:42] Munich Re just hosted a Golf Day for women. Dawnmarie was on a Panel with Liz King Kramer and Sabrina Hart, and then they did a golf clinic. Liz is an incredible leader for APIW.

[31:59] Dawnmarie says an APIW President's term is two years. Dawnmarie is at two years; however, she is going to extend for one more year. Then Tracey Vasile, who is an Industry Liaison and First Vice President, is going to step in. They will transition together.

[32:27] The APIW is having its 50th Anniversary Gala on Tuesday, Nov. 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom in Manhattan on 47th Street. Everyone's gearing up. They are working on a wonderful video. Dawnmarie says it's going to be a night to remember; everybody dress up and celebrate!

[32:56] Dawnmarie says the women who are involved, chapter heads from the various cities, the 2026 Woman of the Year, 14 past Women of the Year, and Cecilia Norad, the Founder of APIW, are all coming for an incredible lineup of programming, a beautiful dinner, and a beautiful event

[33:47] Dawnmarie says it's for making connections and strengthening those connections.

[33:51] Dawnmarie has had the opportunity to sit as a founder on Women In Specialty and Excess (WISE), an amazing emerging organization, and it was simply too much for her between being President of APIW and being part of WISE, so she stepped back.

[34:07] Dawnmarie said what it made her realize is that the professionals in this industry, it could be any of the associations, step up, look outside of their sphere, and create these opportunities for other people to connect in these associations.

[34:26] Dawnmarie says when she thinks about 50 years, she thinks about all the work that has gone into standing up WISE or what Amy Cooper did with RISE, and where she's taking it. Fifty years of doing it really says a lot.

[34:40] Dawnmarie says it's a time to pause and think: where are we going for our next 50? Because we're going to be here and we're going to be delivering the program, the networking, the development, and the leadership.

[34:52] Dawnmarie says that is what we're excited about. We're looking at the past, the current, the future, and bringing in the young professionals; the people who helped build it and the young professionals, bridging that divide.

[35:36] Dawnmarie says she has a level of comfort on stage. During COVID, she learned that she struggles with virtual presentations.

[35:47] Dawnmarie used to get nervous in front of people; now she gets excited because she feels the energy in the room, she's creating the conversation, and engaging people. It is such a different experience. In a way, she's grateful for the virtual experience. It's taken away the fear.

[36:12] Justin says, Dawnmarie, it has been a pleasure to connect with you here on RIMScast. A quick reminder for everyone: The APIW's 50th Anniversary Gala will be on Tuesday, November 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom at 47th Street in Manhattan.

[36:28] Justin says, Dawnmarie will be there. If you attend, please let her know that you heard this RIMScast interview, and that's what piqued your interest to get there. I look forward to seeing you at RIMS events and Spencer events, too.

[36:41] Dawnmarie thanks Justin and RIMS and says, 350 of us at the Gala, maybe more. We look forward to seeing you there.

[36:54] Special thanks again to Dawnmarie Black of Amwins and APIW for joining us here on RIMScast. APIW's 50th Anniversary Gala will be on November 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom in New York City. Visit http://apiw.org/.

[37:10] The countdown ticker for the Gala is on the page. Check it out and let them know you heard Dawnmarie on RIMSCast!

[27:18] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[37:35] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[37:51] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[38:05] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[38:17] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 | Aug. 10‒12 in San Antonio | Last call for registration!

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21.

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

https://www.apiw.org/ — 50th Anniversary Gala on Nov. 3 in NYC

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | Sept 1‒2

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Taking on Global Leadership in Insurance with Sierra Signorelli, Spencer Funding Their Future Honoree"

"Marya Propis: From Industry Leader to Talent Champion"

"Giving Back with APIW President Liz Kramer" (2024)

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

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"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

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RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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About our guest: Dawnmarie Black, Senior Vice President and Client Relationship Manager at Amwins

President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW)

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Jerome Mayne about his experiences and his upcoming RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 keynote, "Choices and Consequences: The Human Side of Risk." In his keynote, Jerome will speak about his experiences and the human factors in decisions. He shares part of the story from his keynote and his book Diary of a White Collar Criminal. Justin and Jerome discuss how fraud develops. Most fraud comes after a series of bad decisions. Jerome says, looking back, you may not understand why you made those decisions. His keynote will address, through storytelling, how fraud happens. Jerome uses humor to tell very serious stories. Jerome speaks of an organizational culture in which it is safe to discuss with leaders bad decisions you may have made. If there is an atmosphere of fear, you will not have these discussions.

Listen for the value of connecting and giving your audience takeaways they will remember.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by Jerome Mayne, opening keynote speaker for the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026. We will talk about choices and consequences. But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. The next virtual RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep courses will be held on July 28th and 29th. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[1:19] On the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:34] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:48] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[1:57] Live Events! The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration will open in July. Look out for the call for nominations for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026 in July for that announcement.

[2:19] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:38] On with the Show! Our guest today is Jerome Mayne. He is an Ethics and Humorous Keynote Speaker. He will be kicking off the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026.

[2:48] Jerome is the author of Diary of a White Collar Criminal, the first-hand account of his career in comedy and his 21-month Federal prison sentence for white-collar conspiracy. Learn more at https://www.jeromemayne.com/.

[3:03] Jerome will provide a unique blend of ethical insights and humor at the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 in San Antonio on Tuesday, August 11th, with his session, "Choices and Consequences: The Human Side of Risk."

[3:20] We're going to get a preview of that session, and also get his perspective on ethical decision-making and how risk managers can avoid certain temptations. We're going to have a lot of fun! Let's get to it!

[3:33] Interview! Jerome Mayne, Welcome to RIMScast!

[3:38] Jerome was recommended by a RIMS member to be a great person to "kick off" the conference. Jerome says word of mouth is the best marketing.

[4:28] Jerome says people don't like to think they're going to an ethics conference. That could be a real "sleeper."

[4:50] Jerome says his whole perspective is from the human side. He speaks about decisions. He doesn't speak about financial transactions. He's not doing bullet points. He's not a scholar in ethics. He knows about decisions.

[5:12] Policies and checklists are important, but there's still a human being making the decision, especially with technology.

[5:30] Jerome says his experience and story have to do with decision-making. It doesn't matter what industry it is; it's all the same. It's human. That's what he talks about, and he says he's fortunate because he gets to tell a story.

[5:50] One of the things Jerome hears most is that he connected with the group because he's a regular guy, like everybody else in the office. He wasn't a Bernie Madoff. He didn't plan something. It was decisions.

[6:23] Jerome says that in real estate finance, you've got a lot of things that have to happen. There are Fannie Mae guidelines, and underwriters that make sure the transactions are right. They didn't call it risk management. It was your manager who kept an eye on it.

[6:47] With real estate finance, you have underwriters, but they can't catch everything, and there was less technology. It was a lot about the human factor. Then when you sell all these loans in a pool, and it goes to Wall Street, there are audits, and that's where they can find stuff.

[7:12] There were some red flags before it went to auditing, but that's the risk.

[7:28] Jerome thinks risk management has evolved since his time in real estate. In Jerome's time, humans made the decisions to get the customer involved. There were human decisions to make sure that financial transactions went through. Now there are more computers to flag stuff.

[8:04] Jerome says, ultimately, today, risk managers are looking for fraud and for specific risks they have identified that indicate there is a problem. It starts with the organization's culture. If you're not comfortable thinking about decisions you've made, that can be a red flag.

[8:45] Fraud isn't the first thing that happens. It's usually a decision, a mistake, or a justification. It kind of rolls from there. Justification is really easy. Fraud is the last thing that happens.

[9:28] Jerome says people call it the slippery slope. Jerome calls it your gut instinct. Instinct is like muscle memory. If something doesn't look right, you know what to do. You feel it right away.

[9:53] And then, maybe there's a reason that you don't do it. You want this transaction to go through, or you like the customer and you think it's not a big deal. It's not like they told you they were going to commit fraud.

[10:24] And then, you keep working with that customer, and you realize, more and more, you're just making decisions to make it through the transactions. Jerome will share a story like this in the session. It didn't start with one thing, and they never asked Jerome to do anything for them.

[11:01] It was never part of the deal that Jerome was going to make money at it. His biggest worry was that he was going to get fired, maybe.

[11:15] A Quick Break! There are many fantastic RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes.

[11:33] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk. Visit https://www.rims.org/Events for registration information.

[11:51] The hotel cutoff date was July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the hotel cutoff date, subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed, so reserve now.

[12:03] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[12:14] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[12:31] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[12:47] Visit http://rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information. Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[13:03] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is now open.

[13:12] Be on the lookout for an announcement about submissions for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[13:22] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 Keynote, Jerome Mayne!

[13:32] Justin and Jerome have standup comedy in common. Justin did standup in New York from 2006 to 2007. He says it takes a certain calling to want to get up and do that.

[14:11] Jerome had done improv and started doing standup. He had always been a performer and a musician, performing on stage. He started improv, "smoking stage," and standup because his life was swimming along just great.

[14:36] Then, Boom! Jerome was indicted. He was going through pre-trial. He didn't have a job anymore; he didn't know what to do, and he didn't know what was going to happen to him. His life wasn't happy, and being in a club every night of the week, you can develop some bad habits.

[15:33] Jerome says there was some great stuff about some of the people he met, especially after he pled guilty. It took a while from that point until he had to go to prison. So he had several months, and he didn't know what to expect in prison. He was scared. Then he just embraced it.

[16:06] A lot of his standup material was about his indictment and preparing for prison. Jerome says in standup you have to give the audience permission to laugh about serious subjects.

[16:45] Jerome developed cancer in prison. After he got out, he used it. He finds comedy all over the place, even in serious, nightmare stuff. He had some funny stuff that happened during the cancer. That material didn't work. The audience never felt comfortable for him to joke about it.

[17:47] The audience gets the story, not the bullet points. He's not telling a story about fraud. He's telling a story about life. It's not a story about Jerome; it's a story about the audience. Not that they're going to do it, or have done it, but everybody is eligible to make a bad decision.

[18:16] Jerome says, you can be a great father; you can be the CEO; you're eligible. It's whether or not you do, and you recognize that the decisions you make are going to have consequences.

[18:28] Jerome tries to connect with the audience. He has found a lot of people to be receptive to some really serious stuff. People need to feel comfortable listening. They're not learning textbook information. They're learning from a story.

[18:55] They can reflect on what they see: situations that they've been in. Jerome has found that comedy helps loosen people up so they can listen, and they're not saying, Wow, that's a felon! Jerome doesn't look like a felon. Felons don't look a certain way. That's important, too.

[19:31] Justin says we have so many listeners who are CROs and risk leaders, and their job is to help make better decisions. Some of them may blur the lines out of an act of desperation. They may be thinking through the lens of parents of students in college or approaching college.

[19:51] Jerome has found that doing standup prepared him to be a speaker. You get beat up as a standup. You have to connect with the group to convey your story. That's what comedy is. Jerome found that comedy worked, and he got something out of it. He feels good about it.

[20:36] Jerome never thought that standup was part of what he was going to do or that he would feel fulfilled providing entertainment, and for people to walk away saying, "I'm never going to forget that." When he hears that, he knows he did something right. It mattered.

[21:13] Justin talks about being in a band in high school. Jerome was a piano player and singer. He formed an Elton John tribute band after his time in prison; he played Elton. You can find his Elton John tribute band on the internet.

[21:47] Justin played bass. He wanted to be Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. When you're on stage, you have an instrument to rely on. When you're a comedian, you have nothing else to rely on. Jerome really likes sharing his story, and he found that people get something out of it.

[22:21] Jerome says he has to be fulfilled also, or he wouldn't do this anymore. That does help. He likes to connect with the group. As a speaker, just like a standup, Jerome needs to connect, read the audience, see where they're going in real time, and change it.

[22:46] Jerome says you could be the smartest guy in the state, and people will walk out of there, and they got nothing. Jerome would like to think that he can connect. He's been doing this for over 20 years. He'd better have found where the pause needs to be, and it changes.

[23:21] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.

[23:41] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.

[23:49] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[24:03] Reach out to Ted Donovan at TDonovan@RIMS.org or reach out to Sales at Sales@RIMS.org. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[24:15] Let's Conclude Our Dialog with RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 Keynote Jerome Mayne!

[24:45] Jerome says he doesn't know trends more than the average consumer. Some people are thought leaders. Jerome is a storyteller. He wouldn't do it if people weren't getting something out of it. He wouldn't be on conference stages if somebody hadn't heard he might be a good fit.

[25:40] Jerome says, it's not because he kept up on that industry. It's not that he doesn't understand risk, fraud, and ethics; he does. He understands them more, however, in the way humans might make decisions or how they might avoid making decisions.

[26:18] Jerome says good leaders setting the tone are all over the place. There are good people everywhere. Most people are good. Good leaders and good cultures are all over the place.

[26:43] Jerome suggests doing a check-in on your organization and people to make sure they're comfortable saying, "I think I made a bad decision. Can we talk about that?" If people are scared to do that, they're not going to make the right decision, and they don't feel supported.

[28:00] Jerome says that what he learned from his experience is that sometimes you can make decisions and choices, and then look back and question why you would ever have made those decisions. It didn't make sense.

[28:43] Jerome says, when people look back, it just doesn't look the same as it did when you were in it. You didn't see the forest for the trees. It doesn't look the same when you are looking back at it.

[28:58] Jerome says, when I think about risk and financial danger, I think of people and how they have to make decisions. It's about trusting yourself that you are going to make a good decision. If you have support from the organization, you're going to feel comfortable talking about it.

[29:32] It's important to make sure there's no silence and fear in your organization about discussing decisions.

[29:42] Justin says, This has been a standout RIMScast episode. We don't get too many people with your resume. I look forward to having you keynote the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 in San Antonio, on August 11th, at the San Antonio River Walk. Thank you, Jerome!

[30:42] Special thanks again to Jerome Mayne for joining us here on RIMScast. Check out his site, http://jeromemayne.com/, for more information.

[30:51] We look forward to his keynote at the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 on the morning of Tuesday, August 11th, at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk. Be sure to follow up with him in the hallways afterward and let him know you heard him here on RIMScast.

[31:11] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[31:28] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[31:45] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[31:58] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[32:10] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

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RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026http://www.rims.org/ERM2026Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

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Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Reputation and Defense with Jeff McKissack" (TX Regional Session Leader)

"Mid-Year Risk Roundup 2026 with Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle"

"Live From Texas 2025!"

"Leadership Lessons with Major General (Ret.) Robert F. Whittle Jr., RIMS Texas 2025 Keynote"

"Risk and Clarity with Huw Edwards, RIMS Texas 2025 Keynote"

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"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

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"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

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About our guest: Jerome Mayne, Ethics and Humorous Keynote Speaker

Author of Diary of a White Collar Criminal

RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 Keynote Speaker (Aug 11)

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Spencer Funding Their Future Honoree, Sierra Signorelli, about her background in environmental science, what drew her into insurance, and what convinced her that this profession was where she wanted to build a career. They discuss her career path from environmental consulting to environmental insurance underwriting to leading a global team and to currently serving as CEO of U.S. and Commercial Insurance at Zurich, and the pivotal moments that changed the trajectory of her career. They discuss her passion for helping women make their way in the industry, and her activities to bring new talent into insurance careers. Justin and Sierra discuss the Spencer Educational Foundation and how Zurich's interest in nurturing new talent aligns with Spencer's work.

Listen for Sierra's passion about the dynamic state of the insurance industry and how it can bring new risk solutions to companies.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Sierra Signorelli, CEO of U.S. and Commercial Insurance at Zurich and one of this year's Spencer Funding Their Future Gala Honorees. But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. The next RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA will be held virtually on July 21st and 22nd. Registration links are in this episode's notes.

[1:14] We have a summertime webinar. On July 16th, Zurich will present "Too Hot to Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation." Register at https://www.rims.org/webinars and via the link in this episode's show notes.

[1:29] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:44] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:58] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[2:07] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration will open in July. Be on the lookout for the call for nominations for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026 in July for that announcement.

[2:29] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:48] On with the Show! Our guest today is one of the modern trailblazers of risk and insurance. She is Sierra Signorelli, the CEO of U.S. and Commercial Insurance at Zurich. She is also one of this year's Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future honorees.

[3:08] Sierra will receive her honor at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City on September 17th at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala.

[3:16] Sierra is here today to discuss her career development, her career journey, how it evolved into a global leadership role, and some words of wisdom for the next generation of risk and insurance talent. She has a lot of great insight and takeaways for us all. Let's get to it!

[3:37] Interview! Sierra Signorelli, Welcome to RIMScast!

[3:47] Justin and Sierra discuss longtime mutual friend Marya Propis. Sierra says their paths crossed early in their careers at AIG. They got to know each other through the Women's Executive Leadership Initiative Program.

[4:09] Sierra says quite a few exceptional women in important roles in our industry came out of that program cohort. It's fantastic to come back together with Marya for this event.

[4:37] Sierra studied environmental science. She tries to live and work with a sense of purpose. In university, she wanted to make the world a better place with environmental science.

[4:58] Sierra says there are areas of overlap between insurance and environmental science. Her initial work out of school was about understanding changing weather patterns, flooding, epidemiology, chemistry, liability, and toxic tort. She leans on what she studied.

[5:33] Sierra says that in school, they studied Earth Systems Science. Much of the modeling they did in school is the same modeling that Cat modelers do at Zurich.

[6:04] Sierra first worked at an environmental engineering consulting firm. A colleague left to join a new company. He called her to come and interview. It hadn't been on her mind, but on his recommendation, she interviewed. Meeting the people, Sierra was intrigued.

[7:08] Sierra says once she joined, she never looked back. She joined as an underwriter doing environmental insurance, so it tied to her background. It felt like it was her own little business. It was her responsibility to build a portfolio of business and build relationships with brokers.

[7:37] Sierra says it was fascinating. The industry gives lots of training, both industry-led and within companies. The opportunity to learn was fun. Sierra felt it was a great place to start to build a career.

[8:20] Sierra has had a few meaningful career pivots. As an underwriter, transitioning to her first manager role was a big step. It taught her that you have to have sponsorship or support within an organization to get the next roles.

[8:47] Sierra says it was a big step from being an individual contributor to leading a much larger team. Having somebody willing to put that on her was really important. She will be forever grateful for that first step.

[9:12] Sierra says the next meaningful step was from running a business in a region to being a CUO for one of the businesses globally. The organization restructured and put Sierra across lines of business she had no expertise in. That was a huge shift for her.

[9:40] Sierra was no longer the deep expert, but she had to lead a team of experts and be credible with those individuals. Most of them had 30 or 40 years of experience. Sierra was in her early 40s. It was a fantastic opportunity that somebody was brave enough to give her.

[10:09] Shortly after, Sierra moved from New York to Asia. It was quite a difference. She took that step because she was in a global role. She says, even though she traveled a lot and she's curious about people and cultures, it's not until you sit somewhere that you really experience it.

[10:39] Moving overseas and being on the receiving end of New York gave Sierra an appreciation for sitting in the market. At that company, all brilliant things came from New York, and the rest of them had to figure out how they added value. The time difference was a challenge.

[11:24] Sierra says the time difference has a huge impact on your life. The company wanted to become more global and had placed executives all over the world in different hubs. When you have 3,000 people in one area, everything is time-zone-centric to them.

[12:01] As a global leader, in another time zone, you have to be comfortable not participating in everything and having people who represent you on your behalf, knowing when you really need to engage. You need to know to move the time if you won't be coherent at 3:00 a.m.

[12:24] Sierra went back and forth once a month from Asia to New York to do Business Unit Reviews. It takes a lot out of you. The world has changed, and she does many more video meetings. Global travel has an impact on quality of life.

[13:00] During those years, Sierra was raising children. They started pre-school and kindergarten in Asia. Sierra says she couldn't possibly do it unless her husband was on board; he had a career that was more flexible, and he was willing to step up. That's a family discussion to have.

[14:03] A Quick Break! There are so many other wonderful RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes.

[14:22] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk. Visit https://www.rims.org/Events for registration information.

[14:36] The hotel cutoff date was July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the hotel cutoff date, subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed, so reserve now.

[14:48] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[15:00] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[15:16] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[15:33] Visit http://rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information. Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[15:47] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration opens in July.

[15:58] Be on the lookout for an announcement about submissions for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[16:08] Folks, we're already looking toward RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate.

[16:22] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[16:35] Let's Return to Our Interview with Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala Honoree Sierra Signorelli!

[17:01] Sierra says when she was in Asia, she had a global role. It highlighted how you speak, how you engage, and how you listen in different cultures is hugely important. You can't assume. It's always good to listen and then ask, and then replay back.

[17:23] Sierra learned some painful lessons just thinking that silence and people nodding along means that they agree. She says she often talks about the importance of listening to colleagues, customers, and broker partners.

[17:45] It's important not to make quick assumptions but to listen first and ask questions so that you have a good understanding of the colleagues you are working with and their needs.

[18:00] Justin says a keynote at RISKWORLD 2019 said that when she spoke in Asian nations and asked a question of the audience, she learned that she had to wait and make eye contact with the audience to know if it was alright to move on to the next point or get them to speak up.

[18:30] This speaker had learned that there is somewhat of a cultural reluctance in Asia to say what's on your mind. Sierra says that may be true, but you often don't get questions, so you have to think about what questions people might have and make sure that you raise them.

[18:53] Sierra shares an example. They were rolling out global pricing tools. The U.S. would raise their hand that they don't like this or that. The same with the UK. Maybe Germany doesn't adopt it. Asia was seamless. They just rolled it out. No questions. Then a broker revealed a big issue.

[19:31] Sierra realized she had to go back and talk with her team, so they could march forward. Having that understanding and making sure you're engaging appropriately with the culture is critical to having a successful business and being successful with the teams locally.

[20:03] Justin asks that as Sierra ascended to that leadership role, did she find that she was one of the few women in executive leadership roles along the way?

[20:23] Sierra says that early in her career, she was quite fortunate that there were quite a number of women leaders. In the group she worked with when she was in New York, there were several women running businesses. She worked for a woman.

[20:43] Many of the women had families. Sierra had just started to have a family. Seeing them able to run these businesses, have a family, and not seem like all the wheels were coming off, seeming very normal and successful in her view, kept Sierra going.

[21:01] Sierra says having role models and seeing other women do it is absolutely critical. It feels like you can do it when you see somebody else doing it. Having other people to talk to about how you navigate it is very important.

[21:17] Sierra says, That being said, you have these groups, but overall, she finds that she's often the only woman in the room in meetings, and more broadly, in Asia. If she looks at the executive committee at Zurich, there are 12 executives, six male and six female.

[21:42] Sierra says there are bright spots. We're making progress, but in some of the mid-level management roles, you don't see the same split. You see women falling off at a certain level.

[22:19] Sierra says we have a Women's Innovation Network that she sponsors for her group. She has always tried to be a great support to women in our industry. She has given support to women along the way and helped them navigate to get to where they are.

[23:00] Sierra says if you want to be authentic, you have to make difficult decisions. It goes hand in hand. If you just take every easy decision, it would be very difficult to be authentic. She would encourage you not to shy away from challenging decisions and not to put them off.

[23:26] That's easier said than done. When Sierra looks at her to-do list in the morning, if there's something on that list she really doesn't want to do, she does it first. Otherwise, it just falls further down the list, and then goes to the list for tomorrow.

[23:47] Those difficult conversations are never as bad as you work them up in your head to be. Just do it and get past it. If you make that a habit, then you tend not to shy away from having the right discussions. It's never as difficult as you can make it out to be in your head.

[24:09] Sierra says one of her colleagues at Zurich in the U.S. often says, "Be kind, not nice." Being nice does not serve anyone well. If you don't give people feedback, or don't give them the full story because you want to be nice, it doesn't make sense.

[24:32] If you're going to give feedback or make a change, be kind. That purpose helps people move forward and take action. Inaction is the bigger risk than taking action, jumping in, and adapting anywhere you need to adapt, as you go.

[25:02] Justin cites a friend of Sierra's, and recent RIMScast guest, Johnell Holly, who said he chooses the hard challenges first and tries to knock them off the list.

[25:24] Justin restates Sierra: your authentic self is shown when you make those difficult decisions. That's a great takeaway for the RIMScast audience. Sierra adds that it's important to take positions so that people understand what you stand for as a leader or an individual.

[25:53] Sierra says in an organization, people are always going to decide what you stand for. If you don't make it clear, it creates a vacuum, and they'll make assumptions. Sometimes people are tentative or worried about taking a stand.

[26:06] Sierra says it's far less risky to take that stand and make it clear what you stand for, because people are going to make an assumption anyway, and they're more likely to get it wrong if you leave it to them to sort out.

[26:31] Sierra says she spends a lot of time meeting with customers and brokers. She gets energy from it. It grounds her in reality, which is important if the company wants to add value. They need to understand how things are landing, and what problems they are solving for.

[26:53] One of the things that keeps Sierra in this industry, and what she loves about what they do, is that they have the opportunity to help solve some of the world's most complex challenges.

[27:06] To do that, they have to get out and talk to people who are facing the challenges, and understand what it means for their business.

[27:14] Sierra says, it's also important to spend time with your people. Sierra is in the Chicago office, and when she walks around the floor, she can meet the teams. She loves when they come up and tell her about a big win or something they're building on in the market.

[27:39] Another Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026 will be held on September 17th in New York City at the Waldorf Astoria. This year, Spencer will honor Sierra Signorelli of Zurich and our recent guest, Marya Propis of RT Specialty.

[28:01] A link to the Gala is in this episode's show notes. Sponsorship opportunities are still available.

[28:14] We have reached the deadline for the Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus submissions. Grant awardees, colleges, and universities are typically notified in September.

[28:22] General Grants are open, and the application deadline is July 30th. Internship Grant applications open on August 15th and close on October 15th.

[28:33] Links to each of these grants are in this episode's show notes. Visit http://spencered.org/ for more information.

[28:42] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala Honoree Sierra Signorelli!

[28:57] Justin congratulates Sierra once again on being honored at the Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala, which will be on September 17th at the world-famous Waldorf Astoria.

[29:07] Sierra says she is looking forward to the event. She has been very fortunate to have amazing people who have helped, either giving her great advice through her career, or who have sponsored her, supported her, or advocated for her as she took the next steps in her career.

[29:43] Sierra says, it's great to be recognized. As she is recognized, it should be recognition for all of those people who were bold enough to support her, especially early in her career.

[30:02] Sierra says Zurich has a long history of engaging with the Spencer Educational Foundation. Zurich's beliefs align with what Spencer is trying to achieve. Zurich believes in bringing a diverse group of people into our industry, and more young people into our industry.

[30:23] Sierra says we need to continue to bring new people in. As we look at some of the changes we have as an industry, becoming more digital, leaning more on insights, and reshaping how we show up as an industry, it's a great time for young people to join our industry.

[30:47] Sierra says she thinks the industry is undersold. It's a fantastic industry to build a career. She says most people who come into the industry don't leave. It's just convincing them from the beginning.

[31:02] Sierra says, from a Zurich perspective, we have a really robust apprenticeship program that we sponsor to bring youth into and help them gain experience: both on-the-job experience and instructional experience through a two-year program.

[31:26] Sierra says that for Zurich, supporting programs such as the Spencer Educational Foundation is a natural fit in continuing to help bring talent into our industry.

[31:38] The other 2026 Honoree, Marya Propis, was recently on the show and was one of the first 50 RIMScast guests. Sierra says she and Marya worked together years ago. They also were part of a fantastic sponsored women's program, the Women's Executive Leadership Initiative.

[32:14] Sierra says several women who are in key roles in our industry came through that program. It's fantastic to see the success of some of those women, including Marya, and to be honored together in 2026.

[32:44] Sierra says it should be a good evening and really nice to reconnect with Marya after having been overseas for quite some time.

[33:00] Sierra is also a board member of the St. John's University School of Risk Management and is deeply involved in developing future talent.

[33:16] Sierra says it's a really exciting time for our industry. The world of risk is very dynamic now.

[33:31] Our capabilities to harness insights and data to streamline what we do to be more efficient to work with, all coming together at the same time, is a huge opportunity to raise the bar to add greater value to companies as they think about how they manage this risk landscape.

[34:00] For Sierra, it's an exciting time to bring new perspectives in and entice young people to look at a career in insurance. Sierra repeats that most people who come into our industry don't leave. People leave companies, but they tend to take other insurance roles.

[34:30] Sierra says, we just need to get more people interested in what we do and to bring new perspectives and new skillsets into what we do. I know that people will stay once they're here.

[35:00] Speaking of knowledge transfer, Sierra says that there are lots of people with many years of experience who want to invest the time with younger people to pass that knowledge on. They don't want it to be lost.

[35:19] For people who are curious and want to come in and build a career, it's an amazing opportunity to be able to work with some of the people who have this experience, as well as working with new technologies and capabilities.

[35:35] The Waldorf Astoria in New York City has been newly renovated. When people gather at the Waldorf for the Spencer Gala on September 17th to celebrate leaders like Sierra and Marya, they're also investing in the future of the profession.

[36:06] Sierra says, first and foremost, she feels fortunate that she's had great support from individuals and also from working for a great company that allows her to do what she does at such a large scale.

[36:44] Sierra says the people who sit on the team at Zurich are the shining stars who give us the brand that we have and the capabilities that we have. She would hope that she leaves a legacy that shows that she's helped to improve and raise the bar for what we do as an industry.

[37:19] Sierra says that's what she's most passionate about. She thinks that as an industry we can do more.

[37:26] We're on the cusp of something great with all of these different dynamics, whether they're the factors of risk that are becoming far greater, or the capabilities we can bring to the table to help the world and companies solve problems.

[37:45] Sierra says, if I leave a legacy that I helped some of the building blocks to get us there, I would feel quite good about that, in addition to helping to build talent in our industry, which is something that I'm particularly passionate about.

[38:03] Justin says it is a well-deserved honor, and I'm so happy for you. I'm very happy for Marya, as well. You both bring so much to risk management and insurance that it's only fitting that you are honored in the same year. You're both doing great work.

[38:21] You're very inspiring for our listeners and, of course, anyone who is involved with Spencer, whether they are staff or beneficiaries of the foundation. You are a shining example of what we hope this profession can continue to be like.

[38:40] I want to thank you so much for your time, and I look forward to seeing you in New York City on September 17th, when you accept your award.

[38:53] Special thanks again to Sierra Signorelli of Zurich for joining us here on RIMScast. We congratulate her on being named an honoree at this year's Spencer Funding Their Future Gala, which will be held on September 17th in Manhattan at the fabulous Waldorf Astoria.

[39:14] Visit https://www.spencered.org/ for more information and be sure to check out recent RIMScast episodes with another honoree from this year, Marya Propis, and Spencer Board Chair, Johnell Holly. Links are in this episode's show notes.

[39:30] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[39:47] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[40:04] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[40:17] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[40:30] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 | Aug. 10‒12 in San Antonio | Register Now!

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4

2026 Florida RIMS Educational Conference | July 28‒Aug. 1 | Register Now

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Opens in July! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA — Virtual — July 21‒22, 2026

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"Too Hot To Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation" | July 16 | Presented by Zurich

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9

Related RIMScast Episodes:

Spencer Honoree "Marya Propis: From Industry Leader to Talent Champion"

"Choosing the Challenge with Johnell Holly, Spencer Educational Foundation Board Chair"

"Risk Management Momentum with Tim Ryan" (2025 Spencer Honoree)

"The Strengths of DE&I Initiatives with Lilian Vanvieldt-Gray of Alliant Insurance Services" (2024 Spencer Honoree)

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

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"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

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"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

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RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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RIMS Virtual Workshops

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About our guest: Sierra Signorelli, CEO of U.S. and Commercial Insurance at Zurich

Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future 2026 Honoree

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Jeff McKissack about participating and speaking at RIMS events, and his upcoming RIMS Texas Regional Conference session on August 11th in San Antonio, on the increasing overlap between reputation management and risk management. Jeff shares the critical impact of reputation risk and the growing threat of AI-generated content. He explains how even executives have caused reputational damage to their organizations, and he reveals a practical step that risk managers can take immediately to reduce the likelihood of reputation-related incidents and subsequent litigation. Justin and Jeff discuss the RIMS Texas Regional Conference, and how you can connect with Jeff after his presentation.

Listen for ways to implement reputation management strategies in your organization.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by Jeff McKissack of Defense by Design to talk all about reputation risk management. But first…

[:39] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[:59] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. The next RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA will be held virtually on July 21st and 22nd. Registration links are in this episode's notes.

[1:11] We have a summertime webinar. On July 16th, Zurich will present "Too Hot to Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation." Register at https://www.rims.org/webinars and via the link in this episode's show notes.

[1:25] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:41] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:55] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[2:04] You can enroll now in the Virtual RIMS CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management hosted by the famous James Lam. Beginning July 15th, workshops will be held bi-weekly from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. ET. The registration link is in the show notes.

[2:28] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration will open in July. Be on the lookout for the call for nominations for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026 in July for that announcement.

[2:49] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[3:08] On with the Show! Our guest today is the Founder of Defense by Design, Jeff McKissack, a noted authority in the fields of threat assessment and the prevention of violent crime, with over 35 years of experience.

[3:22] Jeff provides continuing education seminars for those in the educational, medical, legal, financial, real estate, human resources, and risk management sectors. He is one of the favorite speakers in the RIMS Texas Chapters.

[3:36] You can find him at the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 on August 11th at 1:45, when he will present "How Reputation Management is Impacting Risk Management."

[3:46] As you will hear in this interview, his session at the RIMS Texas Regional will dovetail with the Risks of Physical Harm and Violence. He's here to provide a preview of his session.

[3:55] We talk about the Risk Management impact of social media, AI, and deepfake technologies on operations and profits, and how employee activity online and off the clock can ripple through staffing, operations, morale, productivity, profits, and brand image.

[4:10] This episode is a year in the making. Let's get to it!

[4:12] Interview! Jeff McKissack, Welcome to RIMScast!

[4:29] Jeff has a strong history with RIMS and the RIMS Texas Chapters. He has spoken at DFW RIMS on several occasions. Jeff Strege brought Jeff down to speak at Houston RIMS. He spoke at a couple of conferences co-hosted by South Texas RIMS.

[4:59] Last year, Jeff was at the Inaugural Texas Regional RIMS Conference in San Antonio. He's there again this year.

[5:15] Jeff loves RIMS, in general, because he doesn't have to explain himself. When he speaks to HR or risk management, his two favorite positions, even above the C-Suite, risk managers and HR directors totally get what he does and why.

[5:34] Jeff says the common response he typically gets is they've never met anybody who does what he does or speaks the language he speaks. He's heard it for 39 years. He loves speaking to people in risk and insurance companies because he speaks the language of liability.

[5:54] Jeff does a lot of work with attorneys, as well, on both sides. He tells folks he's trilingual because of all these different industries. He's multifaceted.

[6:06] Jeff talks about years of working with risk professionals and feeling their pain points. He reverse-engineers many of those scenarios. He asks, Where are the points where this could have been prevented, or at the bare minimum, mitigated?

[6:43] A president of an association of independent electrical contractors called him for help. He asked, You have people working hours, in isolated locations, with expensive equipment on their trucks? What could go wrong? Without much of a push, he's able to jump in and help.

[7:20] Jeff says there are only three types of businesses: businesses that have internal employees, businesses that have external employees, and businesses that have both. The risks for those three categories are very different from each other.

[7:40] Jeff explains some of the differences in risks between having internal employees operating equipment and external employees in trucks on the road with equipment. There are different security concerns, risk concerns, and liability concerns. Address all the concerns.

[8:16] Jeff recently saw a police video of a dump truck plowing through an intersection, with its brakes out, into a ravine. Fortunately, no one was killed. Why did the brakes give out? Who was responsible for checking them? They dodged a major bullet by nobody being injured or killed.

[9:11] Jeff says he has three wheelhouses: physical risk, data risk, and reputational risk. He doesn't do active shooter training. He deals with factors that can lead to an active shooter before the shooting happens. He deals in prevention, not in reaction.

[9:42] Jeff doesn't deal in cybersecurity but in data. He doesn't talk about people who hack your computers; he talks about people who hack your people. That bleeds over into reputation management.

[9:57] Reputation management, with the internet and social media, has taken on a different dynamic.

[10:07] Either your employees go online and self-incriminate themselves by putting something out there to the world that reflects upon your company, or they do something off the clock that can still have an impact on your company and its reputation.

[10:22] Jeff mentions two courtrooms that we want to avoid: an actual courtroom, and the court of popular opinion.

[11:01] Jeff says some things before social media still ended up being headline stories in the traditional media that reflected negatively upon employers. Social media has massively amplified that dynamic.

[11:31] Jeff's talk is about how reputation management is impacting risk management. It will be held on August 11th at 1:45 p.m. during the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026. It examines how reputation management and risk management increasingly overlap.

[11:53] Jeff says risk management and HR management often think that whatever happens off the clock is not on them — until it is. There was an Assistant District Attorney some months ago who walked out of a bar "two out of three sheets to the wind."

[12:17] The cops wanted her to get an Uber and go home. She made a huge scene about it, captured on the bodycams. She ended up being arrested. "You don't know who I am. You can't do this to me!" The next day, not only was she fired, she lost her license.

[12:33] There are YouTube channels devoted to police bodycams. People and companies suffer the reputational consequences of those videos. Once they're on YouTube, they go viral.

[12:54] A lot of channels have hundreds of thousands to millions of views, reflecting on a company's public image, even though it was one of their employees off the clock.

[13:40] Jeff says the biggest thing is education and training. We think people know what we know and the way we think. No, they don't. Jeff compares it to schools teaching social ills. As risk managers, you need to teach employees responsibility if you want to change their behavior.

[14:40] Jeff says, Do not expect what you do not inspect.

[14:50] A Quick Break! There are so many other wonderful RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes.

[15:09] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk. Visit https://www.rims.org/Events for registration information.

[15:26] The hotel cutoff date is July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the cutoff date subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed past July 10th, so reserve now.

[15:40] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[15:51] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[16:08] Save the dates October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[16:24] Visit http://rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information. Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[16:39] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration opens in July.

[16:49] Be on the lookout for an announcement about submissions for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[17:00] Let's Return to Our Interview with Jeff McKissack!

[17:07] Jeff says some of these reputational concerns have been C-Suite executives. Jeff just taught about a mayor arrested in Kentucky for shoplifting a $70 pair of shorts at a department store. Jeff guesses the mayor felt he was owed those shorts.

[17:32] Last week, Jeff was talking about a city manager in Texas who felt it was a good idea, when she took her employees to a conference, to take them to a local strip club that night. After a few drinks, she got up on stage and started dancing around the pole.

[17:46] Somebody recorded that and put it on social media, and the city manager got fired. City managers aren't easy to come by. In risk management, we have to understand that when these types of things occur, they impact multiple areas, both immediately and simultaneously.

[18:05] These incidents affect staffing, operations, morale, productivity, profits, and public image. Every one of those six areas has associated dollar figures. This is why reputation management now must be taken into consideration under risk management.

[18:50] Jeff says if I get an employee compromised in a controversial, scandalous, or criminal situation, whether I capture them on camera, or if I create the environment for said compromise to occur, and I set them up to be on camera, do I have them in the palm of my hand?

[19:25] Reputational concerns, if they're not addressed and talked about before, and an employee gets caught in something that happens or was made to happen, it can be used as blackmail to have them do things internally because they have access that outside parties want.

[20:08] About a year ago, Jeff says a case made national news of a high school principal who was facing the wrath of his community because of a racial rant he was supposedly caught saying as the principal of a school with minority students.

[20:27] It came out that the athletic director had taken a digital sample of the principal's voice, maybe from a voicemail, and created an entire verbal tirade from scratch. That was proven through forensics.

[20:47] Meanwhile, the principal had almost lost his job and career and was facing physical threats to his family from the public over something that had never happened. That showed Jeff we were entering a new atmosphere.

[21:03] Jeff says, Sora 2, one of the newer AI video platforms, has already been called out for causing problems for police because people are creating videos of real people committing not-so-real crimes. With AI, it looks real.

[21:19] Jeff describes a hypothetical situation where an AI video would be used to charge an employee of a crime, leading to an arrest and a record. Think of the liabilities you and your company would face. None of those are cheap.

[22:02] Justin asks about verifying the legitimacy of a video. Jeff says there is software out there that does a pretty good job of figuring out if this video is AI-generated.

[22:32] What camera captured the action? Was it an internal, company-owned camera, or something someone supposedly captured on a phone camera? One of those is more susceptible to manipulation.

[22:53] Now, you have to be a little bit skeptical. Never has there been a more important time in our history to live by the adage, "Innocent until proven guilty." Jeff says a healthy dose of skepticism is called awareness.

[23:50] Everybody has vulnerabilities. The first step in preventing a lot of these things from occurring is recognizing your own vulnerabilities, stereotypes, and false premises. Jeff says stereotyping is judging based on appearances; profiling is judging based on behaviors.

[24:26] Jeff says you almost have to go into this blind, deaf, and dumb to do a true, analytical, unbiased evaluation.

[24:34] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.

[24:57] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.

[25:04] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[25:18] Reach out to Ted Donovan at TDonovan@RIMS.org or Sales@RIMS.org. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[25:30] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Jeff McKissack!

[25:54] You can't do anything about the various AI generation platforms out there. People, for the most part, are using them for all the right reasons. The thing you have to be concerned about is if it's used to accuse someone of something.

[26:10] Jeff describes speaking to the Society of Government Meeting Professionals. They are meeting planners for all the alphabet agencies, the Department of War, FAA, CDC, and more. Jeff has spoken at their annual conference for years.

[26:26] Jeff told them, you're bringing all these people here for an annual conference at one place, at one time, under one roof. Who do you think might want to compromise someone there, so that by the time they return home, they've been puppeteered?

[26:44] Jeff is getting these meeting planners to start thinking about security in a different way, and educating the people.

[26:50] "Hey, we love having you here, but when you go out to bars and restaurants, here are some things you need to think of, because some people here may know who you are and what you represent by way of access."

[26:38] Jeff says, if something happens, and they get lured back to a hotel room, for various things, and they get slipped a Mickey and pass out, and a couple of weeks later they get a video by text or email, they don't even know if it's a deep fake or not because they were blacked out.

[27:27] These are things we all have to understand how easy it is. Jeff constantly admonishes employees, when he speaks at that level, to remember it's not about them. They may not have wealth, but they absolutely represent access to things that people want.

[27:48] You have to understand that you may have a target on your back you don't realize you have. When people approach you, ask yourself, does everything that happens in Vegas stay in Vegas? Or does it stay on social media and YouTube? YouTube remembers.

[28:50] Jeff shares something from his presentation. The first step is not the stopping point. The first step is "Do you have a social media agreement in writing that your employees have signed?" If not, you, HR, and your General Counsel need to get together and word-smith it, ASAP.

[29:18] Jeff says he talked to a VP of a company with over 8,000 employees. When the VP was hired as a VP, he was paid to sign two documents. He was paid $50 to sign the NDA, so he wouldn't take the sales list if he left. He was paid $100 to sign their social media agreement.

[29:39] The company was more concerned about him doing something that impacted its public image than about taking the client list. First step is to wordsmith that agreement and how you incorporate it into a Code of Conduct as far as the off-the-clock expectations.

[30:08] Jeff shares a case from New York City where a young sitting judge had an OnlyFans page. He was fired for it and tried to fight it. He lost because the verbiage in the City Manual for his position said: "extra-judicial activities … do not detract from the dignity of judicial office."

[31:02] Jeff spoke at a risk management conference. He showed three lawsuits that were settled in the last two weeks: $125K, $225K, $485K for employees at state and government universities, entities, and institutions over the Charlie Kirk assassination. They had been fired.

[31:20] They came back and sued for wrongful termination and got settlements because there was nothing written that dictated employee behaviors online.

[31:45] You've got to have the paper trail or digital trail. If it's not in the Employee Handbook, add it as an addendum they sign, and put it in their file.

[31:57] Next year, when new hires come on board, have it as part of the Employee Handbook, whether it's the social media agreement and/or your expectations/code of conduct. At the bare minimum, have those things in order. That's your starting point.

[32:40] Jeff says when you hire someone, treat the Handbook like the Apple Agreement. Going into detail about the policy is best addressed in education and training.

[32:59] Jeff talks not only to executives but also to employees. The biggest thing he is trying to get HR, Risk Management, and the C-Suite to understand is that if you're going to alter the behaviors, you've got to teach them what to do otherwise.

[33:30] You're not going to get your employees to go cold-turkey on social media, but you can teach them to apply critical thinking skills so that they police themselves and you don't have to.

[33:45] You have to do it in a way that tells them what's in it for them. People expect them to come home with a paycheck. Tell them all their plans can be interrupted if they do something foolish now.

[34:39] Sometimes, Jeff does not have time in the session to take questions from the audience. He always tells folks he'll be around in the hallways because they may have questions they don't want to ask in front of everybody else there. Or, reach out to him on LinkedIn, or call him.

[35:22] In this arena, a lot of people don't want to put out their concerns. Justin says Jeff is very approachable. He wears a hat, and it has become a branding point for him. Justin asked him for a headshot with the hat, to make him more recognizable, because people know him in Texas.

[36:58] Justin asks about other cases involving social media outside of work. Jeff refers to the city manager who was let go because of a pole dance that showed up on YouTube, and the shoplifting mayor, also on YouTube. The judge had a side gig that was questionable behavior.

[37:35] Jeff says some teachers have been fired over video where they had their kids in the background in the classroom while they were twerking, or dancing with kids. One teacher had his students give him a haircut in the classroom.

[37:51] Jeff recalls the wording cited from the City Handbook about the dignity of the office. That covers a lot. Things like that are subjective, but most people know it when they see it.

[38:15] Justin asks if we're in a society where you have to live your life assuming that everything is going to be broadcast? Jeff wouldn't say broadcast, but at least captured on camera.

[38:25] When Jeff is doing employee training, he goes through cameras that are on the market. You're only thinking of the cameras you see. You are not thinking of cameras that could be out there, recording you. The ATM captures you and looks across the street.

[38:52] When Jeff parks in maybe a questionable area, he always tries to find a Tesla. On average, there are seven or eight cameras around that Tesla. He'll take a picture of the license plate of the Tesla next to him, so if anything happens, he can give the picture to the cops.

[39:38] Jeff says he relays to people, executives and employees alike, strategies, critical thinking. How do you use technology to your favor instead of having it used against you?

[39:51] Jeff McKissack, thank you so much for joining us here on RIMScast. Jeff says he is looking forward to seeing you all in August!

[39:58] Special thanks again to Jeff McKissack of Defense by Design. Be sure to attend his session at the RIMS Texas Regional Conference in San Antonio at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk on August 11th.

[40:13] Jeff McKissack will deliver the presentation, "How Reputation Management is Impacting Risk Management," at 1:45 p.m. Be sure to follow up with him in the hallways afterwards and let him know that you heard him here on RIMScast.

[40:27] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[40:44] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[41:00] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[41:14] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[41:26] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 | Aug. 10‒12 in San Antonio | Register Now!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

RIMScast on YouTube!

"RIMS-CRO Certificate Program In Advanced Enterprise Risk Management" | July‒Sept. 2026 Cohort | Led by James Lam | Register Now!

2026 Florida RIMS Educational Conference | July 28‒Aug. 1 | Register Now

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today and Submit an Educational Session!

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Opens in July! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

Defense by Design

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA — Virtual — July 21‒22, 2026

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"Too Hot To Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation" | July 16 | Presented by Zurich

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Strategy and Change with Ward Ching and Aaron Olson"

"Mid-Year Risk Roundup 2026 with Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle"

"Live From Texas 2025!"

"Leadership Lessons with Major General (Ret.) Robert F. Whittle Jr., RIMS Texas 2025 Keynote"

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About our guest: Jeff McKissack, President, Defense By Design

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews RIMS Vice President of Content & Publications, Morgan O'Rourke, and RIMS Risk Management Magazine Managing Editor, Hilary Tuttle, on the Q2 digital edition online now. The discussion starts with Hilary's Hurricane prediction and the risks associated with storms. They discussed the risks of applying AI in the risk industry, and how using it for the simple tasks means your remaining tasks are the hard ones. To get the best results, be polite to your AI! Justin asks about Red Teaming, its purpose, and how it operates. Human behavior is an important consideration in risk management.

Listen for pointers on what to do as a risk manager for the rest of 2026, and some things to avoid.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. This is our mid-year risk review, and we will be rejoined by Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle. They are here to discuss the major trends shaping the risk landscape; what's happened so far in 2026, and what we can look forward to. But first…

[:47] RIMS Virtual Workshops. The next RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA will be held virtually on July 21st and 22nd. Registration links are in this episode's notes.

[:58] We have a summertime webinar. On July 16th, Zurich will present "Too Hot to Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation." Register at https://www.rims.org/webinars and via the link in this episode's show notes.

[1:13] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:29] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:42] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[1:52] You can enroll now in the RIMS CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management hosted by the famous James Lam. Beginning July 15th, workshops will be held bi-weekly from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. The registration link is in the show notes.

[2:16] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration will open in July. Be on the lookout for the call for nominations for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026 in July for that announcement.

[2:37] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:55] On with the Show! We are in the middle of the year, and that means that it's time for our mid-year risk review with two of my favorite people, Morgan O'Rourke, RIMS Vice President of Content & Publications, and Hilary Tuttle, Managing Editor of RIMS Risk Management Magazine.

[3:14] Morgan and Hilary are joining us today to discuss some of the highlights of the Q2 Edition of RIMS Risk Management Magazine, which is available now.

[3:21] We're going to talk about hurricane preparedness, reputation, red-teaming, AI, and other emerging trends that risk professionals should be aware of, avoiding, and embracing. We're going to have a lot of fun! Let's get to it!

[3:35] Interview! Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle, Welcome Back to RIMScast!

[3:42] Justin mentions that the Publications Department is a team of five. After nine years, Justin is still the second-newest person.

[4:29] Morgan says Risk Management Magazine has articles going up every week. Every quarter, they have a digital issue, reminiscent of a physical magazine, with pages and a table of contents. When this episode is released, the Q2 digital issue was published a week ago.

[4:54] RIMS Risk Management Magazine has occasional special issues, on ERM and the Special RISKWORLD Awards Issue. Hilary says the Editor's Picks are articles you may have missed on the website. Morgan says it's sometimes new stuff, or archival stuff that's still relevant.

[5:30] Morgan says they try to publish in a frequency and format that everybody can appreciate. Morgan and Hilary miss the physical print magazine. Justin thinks they've maintained the essence of the print magazine. Morgan says that's what the digital magazines are meant to do.

[6:22] Morgan says print is not necessarily the way that everybody consumes things nowadays, so you've got to be where everybody's attention is, and that's what we're trying to do.

[6:40] The Marquee article in the Q2 digital edition is Hilary's coverage of the 2026 hurricane season outlook. Hilary is well-versed in hurricane preparedness and seasonal outlooks. Hilary says this year, a lot of the forecasts are calling for a below-average season.

[7:26] This year, Hilary focused on factors that will make the season different. She focused on macroeconomic volatility, geopolitical instability, and U.S. Federal budget cuts as some of the biggest complications this year that are making a fragile and challenging recovery landscape.

[8:03] Hilary says we talk about increased prices in disaster materials, preparation materials, supply problems, and a Federal support system characterized by defunding or dysfunction, and what that means for risk managers tasked with hurricane preparation or recovery.

[8:43] Hilary says, looking beyond the forecast, it's important to assess how your resilience strategy is going to hold up in practice. Even a single landfall is going to be more expensive, potentially. The cost may be higher than ever. Response materials are 40% more expensive.

[9:28] Justin says we had a risk engineer from Global Risk Consultants on the show recently, talking about the physical preparations, 48 hours, 36 hours, and 24 hours before an impact.

[9:56] Hilary says, between materials shortages and price increases, the supply chain is potentially going to be a huge problem for disaster preparation and responses. Getting things is difficult with the Strait of Hormuz closed. People are seeing it across industries and materials.

[10:22] Some response materials are also going to be more expensive because of the increased cost of oil. Hilary found that interesting when reporting the piece. Generator fuel is drastically more expensive than it has been.

[10:43] It's a best practice to have 72 hours' worth per generator on site, if you're in a high-risk area.

[11:55] Materials that require petrochemical input include plywood and structural lumber. Boarding your windows is going to be more expensive, if you can get it. Transport costs are going to be drastically higher.

[11:11] Heavy-duty plastic sheeting is a petrochemical-related product. Some products also use by-products of the crude oil production: polymers, petroleum derivatives, and plastics, like rubber seals. All of those will be more expensive as crude oil fluctuates.

[11:40] Morgan says you have to prepare for increased costs. You may be underinsured for the costs of materials you may have insured for in the beginning. Be aware of increased costs and do what you can to prepare, whether by increasing coverage or buying more in bulk.

[12:10] If you're going to face increased costs, the more you do beforehand to offset those costs is probably for the better. Hilary says she put together 10 detailed and useful tips. One thing that she bumped up the list is to revisit your insurance values and policy limits.

[12:40] Hilary thinks the risk of underinsurance is worth underscoring this year. It is going to be drastically more expensive to rebuild. Make sure you have the coverage you need to cover those expenses and the expenses of potentially needing to relocate when things are closed.

[12:56] Car parts are drastically more expensive, so if you operate fleets, it's worth noting that those metals are delayed and pricier because of tariffs and supply chain problems.

[13:11] Hilary says it's also worth noting that we had Tropical Storm Arthur last week. It never reached hurricane strength, but it still managed to do four to six billion dollars in damage, according to initial estimates from AccuWeather.

[13:27] Tropical Storm Arthur hit the Gulf Coast and did a lot of damage in terms of business interruption, delayed flights, and extended power outages. In terms of business continuity, it doesn't need to be a hurricane to do a tremendous amount of damage.

[13:47] AccuWeather says the hurricane classification system is solely based on wind speed. Wind does not do as much damage as water. Storm surge, inland flooding, and water damage are not reflected in hurricane classification. We shouldn't just be concerned about hurricanes.

[14:21] The peril and the need for preparation are just as dramatic for other storms.

[14:28] Morgan notes that the storm season started on June 1st, and we had a billion-dollar potential damage storm within a week or so. Hilary says it's one of the earliest we've seen.

[14:46] Morgan says they're usually more in the fall. In some years, we've seen tropical storms before the season. Storms are not necessarily confined to the Atlantic Coast. There are Pacific storms to take into account.

[15:18] Morgan learned about Pacific storms from Hilary. In between Hilary's article drafts, there were three Pacific hurricanes that formed, so she had to update the story. The Super El Niño is the climate pattern that creates these storms in the Eastern Pacific.

[15:47] With the Super El Niño, you get more activity in the Eastern Pacific and less in the Atlantic because of warmer waters in the Pacific and more Trade Winds in the Atlantic that act to break up storm formation.

[16:05] Parts of Central America, Mexico, and the West Coast are going to be at increased risk. Hawaii, as well. Morgan says one of the more impactful storms on the Pacific was named Hilary in 2023. Hilary was a billion-dollar storm that killed three people.

[17:21] A Quick Break! There are so many other wonderful RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes.

[17:40] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk.

[17:51] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[18:01] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[18:18] Save the dates October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[18:35] Visit http://rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information. Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[18:50] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration opens in July.

[19:01] Be on the lookout for an announcement about submissions for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[19:12] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS Risk Management Magazine's Hilary Tuttle and Morgan O'Rourke!

[19:31] Justin says artificial intelligence is on people's minds. It's evolved into a data governance and operational risk challenge.

[19:52] Morgan's first reaction concerning AI is, "What else can we say about this?" There is a little bit of burnout about AI. Hilary says we get so many articles. Morgan says there does need to be attention paid. What are your AI use policies? Are your employees introducing risk with AI?

[20:42] Morgan says there was a cybersecurity survey cited in the issue. The biggest risks they are seeing are misinformation and disinformation. IT people don't consider themselves or their companies prepared to identify those risks across the board. Justin quotes that ISACA poll.

[21:45] Hilary says you're seeing a lot of shadowy AI use; a lot of unlicensed and unsanctioned use. If your company allows you to use Copilot, but you're using ChatGPT and Gemini, that's unsanctioned use.

[22:15] Morgan says dropping an entire report in that might be proprietary information, to distill that into a public environment; not just opening the program, but what you're putting into it, may be stuff that no one would want out.

[22:31] Hilary says a recent study showed that 90% of organizations have employees who regularly use personal AI tools at work. Forty percent of companies have bought official subscriptions to AI services because they get different privacy protections than free versions.

[22:51] Fifty percent of companies are running on shadow AI. They're either letting employees foot the bill by using personal subscriptions or using a free mode, and that's a disaster. One of the things a lot of organizations aren't thinking about is the cost of subscriptions and tokens.

[23:10] A lot of companies that are starting to adopt AI at a large scale and are footing that bill are running into astoundingly large bills for these services and not factoring in that it is not free computing power. It is not a free tool.

[23:28] Now that some of these companies are going IPO, if tools are free, they're not going to stay free. Morgan says, it's one of those things that, although it's not necessarily something you want to hear for the fifteenth time, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing something about it.

[24:03] Hilary adds that hidden costs are a big thing people aren't thinking about. People are thinking about governance, which is incredibly important. The market for that is also booming. People have an interest in making you afraid of it, as well as selling it to you in the first place.

[24:22] Hilary says, the governance market is going from $200+ million two years ago to an estimated three or four billion dollars by 2037. It's a huge industry to make you dependent on AI and to charge you to govern it or make it safer.

[24:43] Hillary says we're seeing studies that companies have made huge investments in AI, and are not seeing an ROI. A recent study showed that 5% of organizations have had transformative ROIs. The other 95% said there is zero measurable impact on Profit & Loss, if not a net negative.

[25:10] Hilary says one CEO said that unless it's for coding specifically, we're not going to get monetary value whatsoever out of AI. A lot of companies that have fired people are starting to reverse course really quickly.

[25:24] Hilary says companies that make AI are walking back a lot of their claims about how transformative it's going to be. They had said there would be a job apocalypse because widespread job automation would be so easy. They're walking that claim back.

[25:47] The COO of Uber said that gains in productivity were absolutely nothing compared to the increased AI-related expenses they are experiencing. They're walking back a lot of their investment.

[25:58] The former Chief of AI at Microsoft said that employees default to automating tasks that they dislike, rather than ones that create value. Morgan says it speaks to being practical about what you're going to get out of it, as opposed to it being a magic button to press.

[26:28] Morgan says that in the early going of anything, there's a spike of promise and then reality kicks in. AI is not going to be tossed aside. Hilary says there's a hype bubble around AI, that AI is for everything, and that AI would replace everyone. Companies are laying off.

[26:59] Hilary says last year, 125,000 tech workers lost their jobs. In 2026 through June, already 120,000 tech workers have lost jobs. We are seeing an overinflated promise of what AI is going to be. People are slowly beginning to realize AI is to augment employees, not replace them.

[27:25] Morgan says there's a push for "the human in the loop." People have come to recognize that we can't leave people out of this, if only to check the accuracy of results. You can't replace workers because there's stuff that the AI can't do.

[27:42] Morgan says AI is always going to tell you what you want to hear. It's going to give you stuff that's already out there. It's not giving you new information; it's just distilling it differently.

[27:55] Hilary says there's an important core competency people need to be developing now. Taking a quick look at a thing and saying it makes sense is not an adequate amount of oversight to provide for things you're using AI for, particularly as you start using it more and more.

[28:14] AI is structured to give you things it thinks you want, or to predict what you would do. The results may seem well-written, but you must pay attention to what's in it and whether it makes sense.

[28:33] Hilary says some people submit stories to RIMS Risk Management Magazine that simply restate things; they don't explore ideas. With AI, don't just look to approve it; look to assess it and analyze what it is doing before you put it forward.

[29:14] Hilary says, to be very clear, RIMS Risk Management Magazine does not accept articles that are written by AI. When it comes to articles about AI, they've seen just about everything.

[30:11] Morgan says he would probably be interested in practical use cases that are not promotional, if somebody found some success using AI, that fellow risk professionals could benefit from, as well, and not something so proprietary that it only works for their company.

[30:26] Morgan says it should be something like where AI might be able to help risk managers in general. A lot of people are using AI for different things. It's not about the only best practice, but helping the magazine establish a list of best practices for AI in the risk process.

[30:50] Hilary says it's also helpful to get articles that have practical guidance on what people are using that is useful in terms of governance. How are they crafting effective policies?

[31:01] How are they working to train their workforce on best practices so they're using AI responsibly and getting the most out of it? How are they exploring the ideas of customization, if that is something their company is doing in-house? Practical articles.

[31:17] Hilary says she is seeing a lot of articles on legal exposure and how that is shaping up since all of the case law is so nascent. What are the exposures? What are the liabilities other organizations are learning in real time that you can start guarding against?

[31:35] Morgan says there are a lot of cases working through without a lot of precedent. Some of these cases will become precedents. Four years ago, everyone was talking about basic, general risks. Now we are talking about specific risks of real applications.

[32:04] Hilary says there is interest in the costs of AI. That's underexplored and would be interesting to read about. Are companies seeing that it's having impacts they haven't anticipated? Every prompt you give to ChatGPT, even 'thank you," is a payment to OpenAI.

[32:54] Hilary says a study showed that 80% of people are saying "please" and "thank you" to the AI because they don't want to make it angry; 18% are doing it because they say it's just the right thing to do. Hilary puts "thank you" at the end of a prompt, so it's not an extra prompt.

[33:22] Hilary says, some AI platforms perform better when you talk to them politely. ChatGPT will give you more coherent, nicer, and polished answers if your input is polite. Morgan refers to the Terminator movies. Hilary says, You want to be polite, but you don't want to be empowering.

[34:02] Hilary says, in a video from the American Psychological Association, a professor from Michigan State talked about the underappreciated problem with AI, that if you automate the easy parts of your job, then 100% of your job is the hard parts, a guaranteed ticket to burnout.

[34:39] You've made the easy wins and the low-level stuff that your brain needs to recover, a part of your job that you don't get to do. You don't get those bits. Everything is complicated, difficult, and exhausting. That's not how the brain is designed to function.

[35:00] Morgan says, We don't want AI to do the fun or easy stuff. Hilary says, Think of a call center. If it's a simple thing, like "What time do you open?", or "Do I have a warranty?", AI can close them easily. That leaves you with a furious customer yelling at you for 20 minutes.

[35:25] If that's all you do, all day, every day, what is your life going to be like? Then you start putting things on hold because you need a second. If your goal was efficiency, you're not making it more efficient; you're adding more buffer time because you can't handle that all the time.

[35:59] Another Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026 will be held on September 17th in New York City at the Waldorf Astoria. This year, Spencer will honor Sierra Signorelli of Zurich and our recent guest, Marya Propis of RT Specialty.

[36:19] A link to the Gala is in this episode's show notes.

[36:21] We have reached the deadline for the Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus submissions. Grant awardees, colleges, and universities are typically notified in September.

[36:37] General Grants are open, and the application deadline is July 30th. Internship Grant applications open on August 15th and close on October 15th.

[36:48] Links to each of these grants are in this episode's show notes. Visit http://spencered.org/ for more information.

[36:56] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle of RIMS Sisk Management Magazine!

[37:09] Morgan and Hilary have released the Q2 Digital Issue of RIMS Risk Management Magazine. There's an article about red teaming. Morgan says Red teaming is conducting a crisis simulation. You have a team that is the adversary, challenging your assumptions and plans.

[38:04] Hilary says they are immersive exercises that involve some form of offense and defense. It's basically wargaming.

[39:10] The feature on reputation red teaming suggests that organizations need to prepare for the first 48 hours. In a crisis, it's the first 48 hours of the crisis as much as the crisis itself.

[39:40] Morgan says social media is going to amplify the impact of a crisis immediately. Consider the knee-jerk reactions you see online to anything that's happening. If your company loses control of the narrative, people are telling a story that isn't your story and isn't accurate.

[39:55] Morgan says there was a story that Jeff Bezos had said that we should be using water for AI purposes rather than human consumption because AI will solve more problems. But Jeff Bezos never said that. Social media amplifies something before people question its validity.

[40:37] Morgan says we're in an environment where "crazy," more often than not, sounds possible. Hilary says social media is a force multiplier for a lot, particularly when there are zero content moderation controls, leading to misinformation, disinformation, and hate speech.

[41:04] Morgan points out that even with moderation, something can be put up and seen before it's moderated. The Bezos story is on Snopes that it's not true, but how many people follow up a story like that after they see the headline? They might not know where they saw it.

[41:34] The point of throwing these reputation red teaming exercises together is to acknowledge the fact that not only do you need a plan, but the plan has to be in place to be able to move quickly.

[41:44] When it comes to a crisis that happens within your organization, one of the biggest parts of it is the reputation elements. People run with it, "Not only is this a bad thing an organization did, or a questionable thing, but they're terrible for it and irredeemable."

[42:04] If you can't put out a statement in the first 12 hours after something happens, because you weren't ready for it, that means you entirely miss out on any opportunity to correct that misinformation and be a part of the narrative that actually steers the conversation.

[42:30] Morgan speaks about attention spans. People see a headline and then move on to the next headline. Your first impression may be their only impression. Act quickly. Have the people in place and the plans in place. The exercise is for people to poke holes in your plan.

[42:59] Justin says it's a good article, and the author, Ted Skinner, gives you actionable takeaways. Morgan likes the article but had not heard of red teaming.

[44:05] Hilary says red teaming is very common in cybersecurity. This is the first time they have run across it in other applications.

[44:48] Justin brings up human behavior. It's in the Q2 issue. It permeates every risk. You can't just let AI do your job for you; you have to put a human perspective and input into it. Human behavior impacts employee misconduct. There was an article on it in the RIMS Weekend Read.

[45:17] Employee misconduct is on the minds of risk professionals and executives.

[45:27] Morgan says culture is a good stopgap measure to have. A risk manager can't be everywhere at once. If your organization has a risk-aware culture, it can stand in for you when you're not around. If everyone's aware of risk, you don't have to be the only person watching.

[46:02] Hilary says culture is your sunscreen. It's your everyday, it's your automatic. It's the thing that you need to do to prevent the majority of photoaging and skin cancer. Some of the more subject-specific areas are your serums to spot treat your hyperpigmentation and redness.

[46:21] It depends on what your specific skin is like. Are you focusing on wrinkles? Are you adding antioxidants? The sunscreen is the thing you need every day, as it covers the vast majority of problems.

[47:05] Morgan says the human element is always necessary to interweave into all of this because it's one of the things you can control. You can't control geopolitical events or storms, but you can control whether or not you put the sunscreen on.

[47:25] You can control whether or not you have plans in place for any disaster. That's what allows you to sleep at night. You can do something in an environment where it feels like nothing can be done. That can get overwhelming.

[47:42] Hilary says part of overcoming that overwhelm is the empowerment that comes with educating yourself and doing the work. You can't control geopolitical risk. What does that mean for your organization? What does that mean for your cost of materials?

[48:06] It takes time, and it's not glamorous to look up how much asphalt we use in a year. The stuff that keeps all the gravel together in asphalt is a by-product of oil production, and drastically increases in price. What does it mean if your supply chain is going to be drastically delayed?

[48:33] Those are the ways you can empower yourself and make a difference within your organization with some of these big, ephemeral risks. You need to think, What does this mean for us?

[48:49] Hilary says one of the things we evaluate with our goals and the single most common edit note that I give on submitted articles, is "So, what? Yes, that is a risk. What does it mean for you? What do you do about it? What consequence does this have for your organization?"

[49:20] Those questions are the distinctions between an article I read and an article I publish. Those are the distinctions between a risk manager who is informed and a risk manager who is empowered.

[49:55] Justin asks, based on the Q2 issue of RIMS Risk Management Magazine, and on what they heard and saw at RISKWORLD 2026, what actions should risk managers take before the end of 2026?

[50:12] Morgan says it depends on where you come from and understanding where risks exist, for you, and breaking it down to the things you can control, looking at where all these big-picture things intersect your business.

[50:33] That comes down to strengthening your fundamental risk management practices to make sure you don't lose sight of the basics.

[50:47] There is some talk of the property insurance market softening. That may give you more funds to invest in training or in infrastructure improvements. At least, reassess your policy's terms and conditions and see if you might take advantage of pricing.

[51:12] Those are the fundamentals of risk management. In a time when everything is crazy, when it's a polycrisis environment, those are the things you're going to have to do; otherwise, it will get too crazy to look at all the big stuff.

[51:34] Hilary agrees. Focus on localized impacts, whether it's the impact of the supply chain disruption on your business, or a storm, or inflation, and also, work on your skill set, learning to have a critical eye when it comes to how and if you're using AI, and what it's being used for.

[52:00] Hilary says there's a 56% wage premium for workers with AI skills, according to PWC. A lot of self-improvement and educational things are critical to doing your job well now, but they also set you up to be more prepared career-wise.

[52:16] Hillary touches on thinking about what some of these impacts do to your workforce. AI is a tremendously stressful and confusing one for your workforce, so redirecting some money into training programs is a great option. You'll have a better workforce, and they'll feel better.

[52:41] Studies show that the more training you offer, the less resistance you get when it comes to tool integration, and the better outcomes.

[52:51] When it comes to storm season, you're dealing with a standing inflation, but so are your workers. If they can't afford plywood to board up their houses, that's also a problem. If they are displaced, you have a displaced workforce, and that means business interruption.

[53:07] What can you do to assist? Is that ordering things in bulk, so you have some purchasing power to help them obtain supplies? Is that providing emergency kits so they are prepared at home, and you have a more prepared workforce that comes back to work sooner?

[53:28] Think small when the big stuff is a little too big.

[53:41] Morgan says, the other side of the coin is to avoid getting distracted by headlines that maybe don't have as much relevance. Educate yourself to know what technology works for you. If you just take things on faith, that may not be fit for purpose for you.

[54:14] Hilary says a wait-and-see approach with a lot of emerging technology is proven to be the best course of action, and Hilary recommends it. Focus on augmenting employees, not replacing them.

[54:36] According to Gartner, 50% of AI layoffs are going to be reversed by 2027. A lot of people who acted fast and cut people because they overestimated the impact of AI are going to be hiring those people back, and probably for more money, not to mention retraining costs.

[55:02] Some people are calling it a layoff boomerang. It's coming back. Those who were not overly hasty are the ones who will fare better in the long run. That's an important lesson to keep in mind when it comes to making some of these decisions, going forward.

[55:28] Morgan says, nobody would have said we're going to have a war that's going to dominate all the headlines. Hilary says, if you told me there was going to be a war, Iran wouldn't have been my first guess.

[55:42] Morgan says, We're starting storm season. We're anticipating it being a mellow storm season. It doesn't mean it will be. It's the nature of the game that there are a lot of unanticipated things.

[55:57] Hilary says a dry hurricane season comes with increased dryness, which means increased wildfire risk. It's always something. It's either flooding or it's burning. Which you prefer is largely subjective.

[56:24] Morgan says it's one of those years where it's tough to predict anything, because every day it's something new, which is what keeps risk management interesting. Hilary agrees. Morgan says he's still interested.

[56:49] Justin says, It's been great to have you rejoin us. It's always fun! These are some of my favorite episodes to produce. Everyone, go to https://www.rmmagazine.com/. RIMS members get access to the "turn the page" edition, but anyone can view a lot of the articles online.

[57:11] The Awards issue is also at https://www.rmmagazine.com/ and https://www.rims.org/Awards. There's a listing of the folks who won, as well as links to the issue itself, where you can read more about those individuals. Learn editorial guidelines for contributing articles at https://www.rmmagazine.com/Contribute.

[57:39] Hilary says There are also our Topics pages, if you want any subject-specific coverage. It's a great way to navigate within the website. Natural disaster things don't vary that wildly, year to year, when it comes to preparation best practices.

[57:58] In submitting article pitches, keep in mind that Hilary will ask, "So what?" If you're submitting something, ask yourself that. So what? Why should somebody care to read this?

[58:29] Justin says, Look at her Hurricane Outlook, and the Red Teaming article for good examples of what we're looking for. The Hurricane Outlook is far more in-depth than what we're expecting from the typical outside contributor, but it should give you a good starting point.

[58:46] I'd like to congratulate you on another wonderful quarterly edition of RIMS Risk Management Magazine. I look forward to seeing you at upcoming RIMS events, and thank you so much for joining us.

[59:00] Special thanks again to Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle for joining us here on RIMScast again. The Q2 Edition of RIMS Risk Management Magazine is now available on https://www.rmmagazine.com/.

[59:12] If you want to contribute, check out https://www.rmmagazine.com/Contribute for the editorial guidelines. You can reach out to Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle. And our Editor, Jennifer Post there, as well.

[59:23] We're certainly going to have them back for our Year in Review episode of RIMScast, but if and when major news happens, or I run out of guests, they just may come back and rejoin us here on RIMScast.

[59:36] Plug Time! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in the show notes.

[1:00:04] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them! Contact pd@rims.org for more information.

[1:00:22] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[1:00:40] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[1:00:56] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[1:01:10] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[1:01:22] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS-CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management | July – Sept. 2026 Cohort | Led by James Lam | Register Now!

2026 Florida RIMS Educational Conference | July 28‒Aug. 1 | Register Now

RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 | Aug. 10‒12 in San Antonio | Register Now!

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today and Submit an Educational Session!

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Opens in July! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Prep Virtual Workshops:

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA July 21‒22, 2026

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars

"Too Hot To Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation" | July 16 | Presented by Zurich

RIMS Student Series: "Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1

RIMS Student Series: "Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume"

"Strategy and Change with Ward Ching and Aaron Olson"

"RIMS Risk Manager of the Year Jeff Bray"

"Board Reporting and ERM in 2026 with Trisha Sqrow and Suzanne Christensen"

"Risk Outlook '26 with Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle" (Jan 2026)

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against An Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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Want to Learn More?

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About our guest: Morgan O'Rourke | Vice President, RIMS Content & Publications

Hilary Tuttle | Managing Editor, Risk Management Magazine

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Johnell Holly about growing up in Compton, serving in the military, and eventually becoming one of the most senior leaders at FM. They discuss experiences that shaped his mindset and lessons from his early years that still guide his leadership. They discuss what Johnell learned in the military that influences his decision-making. Johnell explains why he left the military and how he started working for FM. Johnell shares his life advice: choose the hard things; they will prepare you for opportunities to improve yourself. Johnell relates his early experience in sales and how it shaped his career. Lastly, they discussed the Spencer Educational Foundation and how Johnell became involved.

Listen for advice on overcoming hard circumstances and showing up at your best.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Johnell R. Holly, the Executive Vice President for U.S. and Latin America Operations at FM. He is also the Board Chair for the Spencer Educational Foundation. We will learn about his career and leadership philosophies. But first…

[:47] RIMS Virtual Workshops. The next RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA will be held virtually on July 21st and 22nd. Registration links are in this episode's notes.

[:58] We have a summertime webinar. On July 16th, Zurich will present "Too Hot to Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation." Register at https://www.rims.org/webinars and via the link in this episode's show notes.

[1:13] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:28] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:42] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit https://www.rims.org/membership.

[1:52] You can enroll now in the RIMS CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management hosted by the famous James Lam. Beginning July 15th, workshops will be held bi-weekly from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. The registration link is in the show notes.

[2:16] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The deadline for session submissions was extended through June 26th. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026 to get those final submissions in. Registration will open in July.

[2:37] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:56] On with the Show! Our guest today is Johnell Holly. He is the Executive Vice President for U.S. and Latin America Operations at FM. He is also the Board Chair for the Spencer Educational Foundation.

[3:10] Johnell caught my attention last year at the Spencer's Funding Their Future Gala, which this year will be held on September 17th at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City.

[3:21] I found Johnell's career journey to be incredibly inspiring. He is here to discuss his path from humble upbringings to the military to the risk and insurance space and ultimately to philanthropic missions and leadership with Spencer.

[3:36] I'm confident this dialogue will resonate with anyone who feels the odds are against them and is looking for extra motivation to overcome and choose the hard challenges in life and career. Let's get to it!

[3:39] Interview! Johnell Holly, Welcome to RIMScast!

[4:10] Johnell says he is absolutely thrilled for the Spencer Funding Their Futures Gala. It's one of the premier events of the year. Every year, it seems to get better and better, and it continues to achieve new heights. Johnell is excited to see where it goes this year and into the future.

[4:51] Johnell comes from Compton, a rough neighborhood. Johnell wanted something different from how he grew up. He wanted to get a very good education. So he went to the United States Military Academy to get a very good education from a very high-profile institution.

[6:01] Johnell started at the Academy in 1990 and graduated in 1995. In 1995, Johnell went into the Army as a commissioned officer and was in the Army until 2001. His last day of Active Duty was the week prior to 9/11.

[6:47] Justin thanks Johnell for his service.

[7:07] Johnell says there's a lot of what he does today that relates to his military education. He says there's also a lot from his childhood that helped him along his career, including his desire to improve himself.

[7:27] Johnell says some things in the military resonated with him that made it very easy to be more successful outside of the military, such as the work ethic and making the choice to do the harder things when they present themselves.

[7:52] Johnell says, it's like doing the harder military school. Once you get that done, everything else is a bit easier. Johnell says that taking a tough assignment or job within FM, he knows that if he does a job that no one else wants to do, he will have what most people won't have.

[8:11] Johnell says he did things like that deliberately over the years. His mantra would be, Always choose hard, and hopefully, you get to a point where that no longer has to happen.

[6:25] Justin heard a speaker say that if you have six things coming up, one of them is the tough one, and five of them are easy ones, people will choose the five easy ones first, before they get to the tough one. Justin says Johnell chooses the hard one first before the five easy ones.

[8:55] Johnell agrees, not just in his career; he learned it very young. When he was young, he didn't like how he was showing up. He knew he needed to position himself with more strengths.

[9:17] The only way Johnell was going to get those strengths was to do all the things he was afraid to do or hated to do. He had to face fears, get over them, and get through the hard stuff. He teaches his kids that today.

[9:32] Johnell has five kids. The three oldest are girls. The oldest also graduated from Wespoint and is serving. The daughter below her is on a destroyer right now in the Mediterranean, so she's in the war.

[10:02] Johnell has two sons. Both of them are in the top 15 or 20 in the nation for football. One is a redshirt freshman at Michigan, and the other will head out to FSU and Georgia in the next week for his official visits. He'll pick one of them.

[10:31] Johnell talks to his daughters in the service regularly.

[10:42] Justin asks about NIL deals for Johnell's sons. Johnell says the NIL deals are peanuts compared to the insurance negotiations he does daily.

[11:07] When Johnell left the Army, insurance was definitely not on his radar. He was being asked by the military to go back and get his Master's. That meant leaving the state of Washington, where he was assigned. He didn't want to leave; he had things to take care of.

[11:38] Johnell needed to look and see what other options were out there. He went to a headhunter. He interviewed for five or six companies, and all of them made an offer. One of them had a position in Seattle, where he wanted to be.

[12:05] After some negotiation, Johnell decided to give it a go as a consultant engineer, an entry-level position, for FM. He wasn't aware it was an insurance company. He thought he was going into engineering. Coming directly from the military, he wasn't familiar with business.

[12:36] Once Johnell got into FM, he realized that it was an insurance company. Once he saw that, he was very interested in that side of the business and wanted to get over to it very quickly. By 2002, Johnell had moved to the insurance side of FM.

[13:31] Johnell says, early on, risk management and insurance had been thought of as a secondary thought to business. Understanding of the hazards and operating to reduce those hazards didn't exist at the levels that it does today.

[14:11] Today, thinking about risk and ensuring that you are resilient is no longer optional. You cannot just hope that things aren't going to go wrong. You have to assume that things are going to go wrong. Those who do that well will be more successful.

[14:35] A Quick Break! There are so many other wonderful RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes.

[14:53] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk.

[15:05] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026, in Chicago. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[15:15] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[15:32] Save the dates October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[15:48] Visit http://rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information. Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[16:03] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The deadline for educational content submissions was extended to Friday, June 26th. Get submissions in now. The link is in this episode's show notes. Registration opens in July.

[16:25] Let's Return to Our Interview with Johnell Holly!

[16:33] At the start of working for FM, Johnell was doing client service and sales. Johnell was a captain when he left the military. He was in a position of authority with a good amount of autonomy. Coming to FM, he was older than his peers, who had come straight out of college.

[17:13] That maturity was pretty key. The best thing Johnell learned in the military is that rank doesn't matter. What matters is how you treat people, not just the people you work with every day, but how you treat every person you interact with.

[17:42] If you can do that well, and recognize that we're all the same, looking for the same stuff, trying to achieve the same things. Johnell says to put it all into perspective and take that approach in how you deal with people. Relationships are king in the military and in life.

[18:27] Johnell really wanted to do well in the job he was in. He says, if you do well, if you put your heart, effort, and everything else into what you're doing, it gets recognized. Folks want that experience and expertise in other areas. That's how you create opportunities for yourself.

[19:17] Johnell has had a lot of different jobs at FM. Probably the most difficult job was sales. Johnell is a very deliberate person. He likes to be strategic and very planned in how he approaches things. He says, in sales, you have to be a lot more fluid, with a lot less structure.

[19:49] Johnell doesn't think it has to be that way. Sales, to be most effective, should have quite a bit of structure, but in the early days, that didn't exist.

[19:57] That was not the best environment for Johnell, but it taught him again how to manage through situations, overcome them, and get better at them. It was much like choosing hard, although that wasn't his intent.

[20:28] It was one of the most developmental roles of his career at FM that put him in a position to be in the roles that he is in now.

[21:25] Justin says it's fascinating to see who succeeds in sales and who goes on to do other things. Johnell says, You've got to be resilient. You've got to be able to take a lot of No and be okay with that. It was all cold calling, lighting them up, and getting in the door.

[22:03] Another Quick Break! Johnell Holly will be at The Spencer Funding Their Future Gala 2026 in New York City at the Waldorf Astoria on September 17th. This year, Spencer will honor Sierra Signorelli of Zurich and last week's guest, Marya Propis of RT Specialty.

[22:31] A link to the Gala is in this episode's show notes.

[22:34] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus application period is now open, and it will close on June 30th. Grant awardees, colleges, and universities are typically notified in September.

[22:52] General Grant applications are open, and the application deadline is July 30th. Internship Grant applications open on August 15th and close on October 15th.

[23:04] Links to each of these grants are in this episode's show notes. Visit http://spencered.org/ for more information.

[23:12] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Spencer Board Chair Johnell Holly!

[23:30] Johnell says selling remains difficult. FM is not a sales-focused organization. FM needs sales; it's critically important, but FM is about client retention and building client relationships.

[24:17] Before a salesman for FM can sell a policy to a company, the salesperson needs to get internal sign-off for various reasons that the company is a good fit for FM. Johnell says there's more structure in FM sales policy today. More training is done for successful selling.

[25:39] Johnell says that from the first day he started with FM, RIMS was a part of the conversation. Johnell's participation was in attending some of the local RIMS events when he was on the West Coast. Johnell started in Washington and then went down to LA.

[26:10] Johnell had attended Western Regional RIMS and Los Angeles RIMS events. Johnell says that he had been with FM for almost 15 years before he really became aware of Spencer. Today, Spencer is out there much more, creating education and awareness for the industry.

[26:59] Johnell says that for Spencer to create awareness for students, everyone in the industry needs to know about it. Spencer is at a point where it is recognized as a foundation throughout the insurance industry.

[27:18] Johnell says that Spencer needs to be recognized even outside of the insurance industry, as much as possible, and he thinks it is on its way. It's been a buildup of all the efforts and work, back to Robert S. Spencer himself, that have led to where Spencer is today, and it will continue.

[28:03] Johnell says his involvement with Spencer came when Brian Callori, who was one of the Chairs and who also worked for FM, thought that it would be a good fit and a great opportunity for Johnell to be a part of it. He suggested that Johnell be recommended to join the Board.

[28:31] Johnell joined the Spencer Educational Foundation Board. Within the first couple of meetings, Johnell realized that they could do things better, and he started speaking up about it. He only wanted to help the organization do its best. They asked him to do as he suggested.

[28:57] Johnell joined the Executive Committee and continued in various positions until he is now the Chair. Justin notes Johnell's enthusiasm about the Spencer Educational Foundation, evident in his Gala address last year.

[29:09] Johnell plans to be on stage again at the 2026 Gala.

[29:38] Justin asks about last episode's RIMScast guest, Marya Probis, who is no longer on the Board and is one of this year's Spencer honorees.

[29:53] Johnell says the interesting thing about the Board is that they are all competitors for the most part. The minute they get into that room, they come together and focus on the mission of Spencer. Johnell sees that they have a sincere desire to help the industry advance.

[30:31] Johnell says we need to educate folks in the middle schools and primary schools and so on to get folks thinking about working in insurance. Insurance is an amazing industry and career, and it's necessary. It's inspiring to be able to talk about and drive it throughout the world.

[31:42] Johnell says the world has always been changing. The one constant is change. The more that all of us, including kids, can embrace that reality, the better prepared we will be. The insurance industry always follows the world. The world is always looking for the next best thing.

[32:42] Someone is out there innovating, inventing, and trying to come up with the new thing. The new thing is going to come with risk. Johnell says our capability and responsibility to be able to protect that risk or associated risks is what we do. It's why we're here. That's exciting.

[33:11] Justin says, We're looking forward to seeing you on Thursday, September 17th, at the Waldorf Astoria, for the 2026 Funding Their Future Gala. We've got Sierra Signorelli from Zurich as one of the honorees; Marya Propis is the second honoree, and it's going to be a great time.

[33:28] I look forward to seeing you up onstage. Last year, your message resonated with me so much. You came from a very humble upbringing, and you have this wild trajectory professionally, and you've got five kids, so you've had quite a journey.

[33:55] Justin asks Johnell to imagine an audience member hearing this episode of RIMScast, and they might similarly come from a difficult background and just not know what their path forward is going to be. What message would you have for that person today?

[34:15] It's the same message Johnell has for a lot of the folks he interacts with from a similar background. His family still lives in Compton, so he still interacts with kids and with college athletes who did not have the greatest upbringing.

[34:38] Johnell says it's wrong to think you are not a product of your environment. You are. Depending on what that environment has in store for you, you either want to be there or you don't want to be there. One thing you can control to some extent is whether or not you're there.

[35:10] Change your environment. If you can't change your environment, change the way you show up in your environment. Do the things that are going to give you more experiences. Do the things, the hard things, that are going to create more opportunities for you down the road.

[35:30] You don't have to do something earth-shattering. It could be the little things that start to build your toolbox. So that when the time comes and the opportunity presents itself, you have all of these things you have built that will uniquely position you to take advantage of that situation.

[35:58] You need to put yourself in a position so that when the time comes, you're ready to go. That often means to "choose hard." If you're willing to choose hard, then you are going to differentiate yourself. There's no way in the world that it doesn't pay off at some point. It will.

[36:20] Justin says These are wonderful words of wisdom. They resonate with me, and I'm positive they're going to resonate with the audience. You're an inspiring guy. I look forward to hearing more from you and to seeing you in September. Thank you so much for your time.

[36:45] Special thanks again to Johnell Holly of FM and the Spencer Board Chair. We look forward to seeing him at the Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala, which will be held on September 17th at the Waldorf Astoria in NYC.

[37:02] Visit https://www.spencered.org/ for more information and to purchase your ticket and for sponsorship opportunities. Remember to check out last week's episode, RIMScast #395, to hear an interview with Marya Propis, one of this year's Spencer Funding Their Future Gala honorees.

[37:20] Plug Time! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in the show notes.

[37:49] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them! Contact pd@rims.org for more information.

[36:07] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[38:25] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[38:41] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[38:55] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[39:07] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

RIMScast on YouTube!

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS-CRO Certificate Program In Advanced Enterprise Risk Management | July‒Sept. 2026 Cohort | Led by James Lam | Register Now!

2026 Florida RIMS Educational Conference | July 28‒Aug. 1 | Register Now

RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 | Aug. 10‒12 in San Antonio | Register Now!

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today and Submit an Educational Session!

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Session submissions deadline extended to June 26! | http://www.rims.org/erm2026

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"Marya Propis: From Industry Leader to Talent Champion"

"Spencer Day 2026 | The Future of Strategic Risk Management"

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About our guest: Johnell R. Holly, Executive Vice President, United States and Latin America Operations, FM

Board Chair, Spencer Educational Foundation

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Marya Propis about her career in retail brokerage, wholesale distribution, and executive leadership. Marya speaks of leaders who influenced her, how her leadership skills have changed in 30 years, and how emotional intelligence guides her as she helps young insurance professionals at RT Specialty. She also shares the importance of physical fitness and self-care in showing up at her best each day. Marya discusses the wholesale Excess and Surplus Lines marketplace in the U.S. She talks about her involvement in industry associations and the enthusiasm she has for helping students and new risk professionals. She shares information about the Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future 2026 Gala, where she will be one of two honorees. She serves as a Director of Distinction, acting as an ambassador for the Spencer Educational Foundation.

Listen for Marya's enthusiastic approach to persuasive leadership.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be rejoined by our friend Marya Propis, President of Retail Distribution at RT Specialty and honoree at this year's Spencer's Funding Their Future Gala in New York City on September 17th. There is a lot to catch up on. But first…

[:47] RIMS Virtual Workshops. The next RIMS-CRMP-FED Exam Prep with AFERM will be held on June 16th and 17th. The next RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA will be held virtually on July 21st and 22nd. Links to registration are in this episode's notes.

[:58] We have a summertime webinar. On July 16th, Zurich will present "Too Hot to Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation." Register at https://www.rims.org/webinars and via the link in this episode's show notes.

[1:13] You can enroll now in the RIMS CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management hosted by the famous James Lam. Beginning July 15th, workshops will be held bi-weekly from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. The registration link is in the show notes.

[1:34] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. We want to hear from you. Submit a session proposal by June 19th to reach engaged practitioners, innovators, and leaders looking for guidance they can utilize right away.

[1:52] Help define what's next for Enterprise Risk Management. Submit a session proposal by Friday, June 19th. Visit https://www.rims.org/ERM2026.

[2:02] Folks, through the generosity of its industry partners, RIMS has launched The Foundation for Risk Management™, which provides scholarships for early-career professionals to attend RIMS events like RIMS Texas Regional Conference, RIMS Canada Conference, and RISKWORLD.

[2:21] The Foundation also helps beneficiaries earn their RIMS-CRMP and fund research projects. To learn more or contribute to the Foundation, visit https://rims.org/FRM and visit the link in this episode's show notes.

[2:36] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:56] On with the Show! Marya Propis is rejoining us on RIMScast. She is the President of Retail Distribution at RT Specialty, and she will be honored this year at the Spencer Funding their Future Gala at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City on September 17th.

[3:17] We'll learn about Marya's career, her risk management philosophy, how her physical wellness fuels her progress as a risk and insurance professional, and why she feels it is critical to continue her support for women in the profession. We're going to have fun. Let's get to it!

[3:39] Interview! Marya Propis, Welcome Back to RIMScast!

[3:49] Since the last time Justin and Marya spoke, Marya has joined RT Specialty. She is coming up on her 6th anniversary with RT Specialty. It has been the most enjoyable and successful career chapter she has been fortunate to enjoy.

[4:04] Marya says there are so many great things to talk about in terms of what's going on in the marketplace and at RT Specialty and how that pertains to Spencer.

[4:20] Marya is President of Retail Distribution. She was promoted to that role several months ago. A dedicated group under her leadership is keeping a finger on the pulse of what's going on in the ultra-dynamic U.S. retail landscape.

[4:47] They are always thinking of ways to be more client-centric, partner more fully with their retail clients, and think of all the places that their clients need RT to be as the top wholesale partner in the U.S.

[5:08] Marya has six people on her team for a wholesaler that placed $32 billion of premium last year. But, actually, her team is the entirety of all the brokers and underwriters that work for RT Specialty. That's 1,500 people.

[5:28] Marya's job is to make the brokers and underwriters who work for the team more successful every day. Her stakeholders are the market-facing, talented brokers and underwriters. They are her team.

[5:46] Marya sets best practices and standards around compensation, conferences, and the way they engage. Client-centricity is very important, so Marya extends direction for it.

[6:00] Marya explains how leadership style has evolved. In the first half of her career, it was all about command and control, from the top down. Telling everyone what to do has evolved positively.

[6:19] Marya prides herself on having very good influence and leadership skills. She says people want to follow her direction. She had to learn a lot to go from telling people what to do to creating a path people want to follow. Being a command-and-control leader doesn't feel good.

[7:00] Marya says that when we started talking about emotional intelligence as an important part of leadership, she realized she had it. She just hadn't been using it in any of her management or leadership roles.

[7:11] It became more acceptable to use emotional intelligence to get your team aligned and get people thinking around the direction you need to go as a team or a firm. That's been very positive for Marya, but she couldn't flip that switch overnight.

[7:30] Marya had to learn a lot to change her leadership style so people want to follow and feel that she is creating the right direction, so they can be more successful, not leading them down a path to doom and demise.

[7:52] Marya says that an emphasis on emotional intelligence came hand in hand with the industry starting to pay attention to women in insurance and the lack of representation of female leadership in insurance.

[8:09] Marya says that a decade ago the insurance industry started to be deliberate about realizing they didn't have many women in leadership and that there were obstacles in the industry to women being promoted and compensated at the same rate as their male colleagues.

[8:31] Emotional intelligence came along with the recognition that women have a distinct and unique skill set. Emotional intelligence is a prevalent part of a woman's skill set. Women bring real value as leaders. The traits that come with that include emotional intelligence.

[9:07] Justin says we have such a great group of rising risk professionals, particularly females, in the profession and the RIMScast listenership, so this is a great way to kick off this dialog.

[9:25] Marya says she has worked for a lot of great leaders. She was fortunate to work closely with many executives. You can watch a leader and learn a technique or a trait that you can add to the skill set you already have. Marya says she gets her best material from others.

[10:14] Marya says Pat Ryan, who founded RT Specialty, is the absolute Superman of insurance. Any time she hears Pat Ryan talk, she leaves with a gem that she commits to do or think about, going forward. He uses an expression: "Do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do."

[10:47] If you use that as a guiding principle for how you set your priorities and make decisions, based on what your retail clients need, then it's very obvious what you need to do. It has become a guiding principle for her in the way she makes decisions every day.

[11:47] Marya says her scope of responsibility is just retail clients. Her colleague Leah Ohodnicki oversees carrier management. They talk all the time. There are so many of the same principles that they apply, just to different channels in the marketplace.

[12:07] Marya has been a career salesperson. For her whole insurance career, she has sold stuff. She has sold capabilities and products. She sells and represents wholesale brokerage services.

[12:27] Marya says no client is like another. You must see every client with fresh, objective eyes. Every client has something unique, or a competitive advantage, or something special about the way they've built their firm. Sometimes you have to look carefully to find it, but it's always there.

[13:06] You have to be willing to put yourself in their shoes. How do they see the world? How is that retailer creating visibility and driving success?

[13:26] Marya prides herself on being a student of who the retail client is and thinking about how to better frame partnership strategies to work with them as effectively as possible, rather than thinking about herself, RT Specialty, and all the stuff she can throw at any retail client.

[13:48] In Marya's mind, the way to do it is to start by asking what they need. Where is the place that they will need RT Specialty to be more successful? Then she constructs an engagement approach around that. That's different from how she thought about it 20 years ago.

[14:15] In any industry, Marya doesn't want to be a vendor. She wants to be a partner. There's a big difference in the way you have to think to be a trusted business partner. That's a very important part of Marya's personal and professional philosophy in creating partnerships.

[15:13] Marya says she's very committed to the digital distribution model. It's been one of the more exciting and dynamic components of the retail channel. Marya doesn't use AI interchangeably with digital distribution. Digital distribution is where we sell things online.

[15:41] Marya says AI is a technology enabler that helps us be more efficient in sales. RT Specialty has an online portal called RT Connector that has been trading E&S Specialty, Micro and Small Commercial P&C products for eight years on the digital distribution platform.

[16:09] Marya says there's a newish type of retail agent in the U.S. marketplace called digital agencies. They want to trade as efficiently as possible. They want API connectivity. They're focused on a specific segment and industry, in terms of where they feel they can sell and trade.

[16:31] Marya says even the way they acquire leads is very different than a traditional retail model. Marya says we're certainly not going to sell RT the same way to a digital agency as we do to a big Alpha house. They're very different.

[16:51] Understand the model. Understand how that retail agent or broker is structured, and meet them where they are. With digital retail agents, it's a completely different type of retail partnership that they can build with them vs. other models they've worked successfully with.

[17:18] Marya says our retail clients are always evolving and changing and buying lots of stuff, in mergers and acquisitions. They restructure. How they choose to go to market. How they're winning business. Marya loves all the learning that comes as the market and her clients evolve.

[17:45] Marya says they're a wholesaler. Their digital platform will reflect the appetite and eligibility of the technology-enabled carriers that are represented on the RT Specialty platform as trading partners.

[18:10] Marya says they have 130 talented binding authority teams across their U.S. platform. They know what their appetite is; they have the binding authority. That's human interaction.

[18:28] Marya says RT Specialty mimics that same process with some of the same carrier partners by putting their product-specific appetite on their digital platform.

[18:38] The same agent can either go to the RT binding authority underwriter or go through RT Connector. If it fits the appetite of the products on RT Connector, in five minutes, the agent can rate quote, bind, issue, e-deliver policies, surplus lines taxes, and finance premium.

[19:02] Marya says she can ask agents how they want to trade the E&S specialty marketplace. There are a lot of paths they can follow that get them to the same place where they win. RT Specialty can put the right resources around that.

[19:35] Marya says if a retail client brings a franchise opportunity to RT Specialty, if it's a franchise operation that's insured, RT Specialty will write it. They write lots of them in the U.S. Marya participates in risks her retail clients bring to RT.

[19:52] Marya doesn't sell directly to franchises, but RT has a lot of franchises and programs in chains in their book of business. RT has the largest sports and entertainment practice in the wholesale segment in the U.S. It's a tough segment of the marketplace.

[20:20] RT Specialty has invested a lot in terms of talent. RT Specialty owns the largest MGU in the marketplace. The sports are professional, amateur, and everything in between. It's a very successful market segment for RT Specialty.

[20:41] Marya explains that an MGU is a Managing General Underwriter, which is different from an MGA (a Managing General Agency), which is different from a Program. Marya says this has been one of the fastest-growing segments of the specialty market in the United States.

[21:09] Marya says you create a homogeneous appetite for a certain bulk of business, find a carrier partner, set up a Program, and open your storefront and either distribute through retailers or wholesalers. Some are direct-to-insureds

[21:30] Managing General Underwriter means that we would create the appetite and the guidelines. Managing General Agent means that the carrier has already defined that, and they're allowing us to put a storefront in front of that.

[21:54] That's different from some of the traditional carriers that RT Specialty works with, like Lexington Insurance Company or Westchester Insurance Company. Those are carriers. That is a different solution than when RT Specialty approaches an MGU on behalf of their retail client.

[22:18] Marya says anytime you have a lot of people in one place at an event, there are lots of risks associated with that: gun violence, political violence, and means of evacuation response. We have seen that time and again.

[22:43] When you have a lot of people congregating for a sporting event, a demonstration, a commemoration, or other event, it's gotten much riskier when you put a lot of humans in one place. That has made that segment of the marketplace much more challenging than ever.

[23:10] Marya mentions boxing matches in Vegas or the number of active shooter incidents in Vegas. Marya believes the Excess and Surplus Lines market segment is the permanent home for high-hazard risks in the U.S. It's not an escape valve.

[23:42] Marya says that in her lifetime, those types of risks will never swing back to the direct admitted standard carrier side. As a wholesale broker, RT Specialty is looking to partner with carriers that have the right type of appetite to support those risks.

[23:59] RT Specialty builds products, so they own MGUs, MGAs, and Programs. They invest and build products when segments of the marketplace become very tough, so they have solutions available through their brokers and underwriters to write any risk in any class of business.

[24:19] A Quick Break! There are so many other wonderful RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes.

[24:37] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk.

[24:48] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026, in Chicago. Visit http://chicagolandriskforum.org/ for more information.

[24:59] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. Registration is open, and you can also submit a session. Visit http://rimswesternregional.com/ and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[25:16] Save the dates October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are already open. Earlybird registration is open now.

[25:31] Visit http://rimscanadaconference.ca/ for more information. Also, remember to check out https://rims.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[25:45] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The deadline for educational content submissions is Friday, June 19th. Get submissions in now. The link is in this episode's show notes. Registration opens in July.

[26:08] Let's Return to Our Interview with Marya Propis!

[26:32] Justin asks about Marya incorporating workouts into her life so she can perform better as a risk and insurance professional. Justin also feels that he has missed out if he has not exercised or worked out for a certain time each week.

[27:03] Mary has 35 years in the business. She travels every week. She flies a lot. She is very focused on her wellness routine. She has been an athlete her whole life, so working out is important to her. So is self-care.

[27:34] Having gone through menopause and figuring out what was going sideways, physically and mentally, Marya feels good about where she is today, in her commitment to herself, supplements she takes, and understanding healthy brain function and the effects of hormones.

[28:09] Marya says we know hormones have a significant impact on our ability to function, both for men and women. Marya says her lifestyle is not perfect. She eats at restaurants 80% of the time, and entertaining clients involves alcohol.

[28:40] Marya loves the relationship-building, social, and personal connection side of the business. She's not going to skip drinks or dinner with anyone. But it's a place where there can be a lot of pitfalls. She doesn't subscribe to an austerity lifestyle. But she has to pick her spots, now.

[29:10] Marya says she can't be dragging on Thursday morning. She still has two big days ahead of her to deliver. Marya talks about sleep quality, not just how much you get, which gets tough when you're sleeping in different hotel rooms.

[29:35] Marya says, This is the way it is with the career I have chosen, and I love. She has to be much more deliberate and mindful and remind herself that in June, she is traveling 18 days. On the days she's not traveling, she knows what to do for working out and for her wellness routine.

[30:24] Marya says she is open and willing to learn. She is open to trying and learning new things. She believes in supplements and vitamins. She takes different ones now than she would have taken a decade ago. You have to be a student of that, like everything else in life.

[30:43] Marya says The second you start to lose the desire to learn, what's next? It's not really fun when people's mindsets change.

[30:54] Marya has been a Yoga practitioner for 30 years. She does Power Vinyasa in an infrared studio. Marya says the benefits of infrared are scientifically not debatable. She says infrared is great for joints, skin, and healthy brain functioning. It amped up her Yoga routine.

[31:15] Marya does TRX bodyweight exercises. Most of the hotel gyms today have a TRX setup. She loves that, since she spends a lot of time in hotels and hotel gyms. Marya does circuit training. She works with heavy weights three times a week to maintain skeletal strength.

[31:53] Marya says it sounds like a lot. As an athlete, when you have to perform and deliver, it's part of the way you have to think. It's how Marya thinks. She has to show up and be her best self when she's representing RT Specialty in the marketplace.

[32:14] Marya has a lot of people relying on her to be crisp and present with a great level of energy. You can't do that if you're dragging all the time.

[32:40] Marya grew up in Buffalo, New York, so she's a skier. It was the first sport for her family. She played tennis in high school and college. She ran track as a sprinter. Her favorite sport is Yoga. A couple of genres of Yoga have world competitions. Mary likes vigorous, athletic Yoga.

[33:34] Another Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus application period is now open, and it will close on June 30th. Grant awardees, colleges, and universities are typically notified in September.

[34:05] General Grant applications are open, and the application deadline is July 30th. Internship Grant applications open on August 15th and close on October 15th.

[34:16] Links to each of these grants are in this episode's show notes. Visit http://spencered.org/ for more information.

[34:24] Let's Conclude Our Interview with One of the Two Honorees of the Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026, Marya Propis!

[34:48] Justin asks about associations Marya is plugged into that support empowering women in the risk and insurance industry, such as APIW and WISE.

[35:01] Marya represents RT Specialty on two boards. One is CIAB (The Council of Insurance Agents and Brokers), an international organization known for its regulatory and lobbying efforts.

[35:25] Marya spent a week in London last month with CIAB. There is so much going on in the London marketplace. That has been a lot of fun and a place to continue to learn.

[34:47] The second board is WSIA (Wholesale & Specialty Insurance Association), representing the wholesale specialty segment. There are specialty markets around the world, but the E&S lines market segment only exists in the United States. WSIA is a wonderful organization.

[36:14] Marya says that what's great about both CIAB and WSIA is what they do to support young and developing insurance and risk management professionals. It's consistent with and complementary to the work, scope, and mission of the Spencer Educational Foundation.

[36:32] Marya loves the way all of that comes together. Marya has been in the space developing, recruiting, and supporting emerging leaders and talent in the insurance and risk management marketplace for a long time. It's a space she loves to be in.

[35:56] It all comes together nicely with Marya's board service and her commitments to foundations and causes.

[37:10] Justin says the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala will be on Thursday, September 17th, at the world-famous Waldorf Astoria. Marya is one of the two honorees this year. Justin asks what this honor means to Marya.

[37:35] Marya can't remember a time when she looked forward to something so much. First, she was surprised, and she feels really humbled. Marya had been a Spencer Board member and Chair of the Board, thinking about whom they would honor, every year for a decade.

[38:05] It's really humbling to be considered, let alone this year, going back to the Waldorf Astoria. Marya remembers the Spencer Gala there, at which she spoke as Chair of the Fundraising Committee.

[38:22] Marya just about passed out before going on stage, as she had never talked before so many people. She was hyperventilating. She didn't fall off the stage. She enjoyed herself a little bit. The Waldorf Astoria is one of the most storied hotels in the history of New York City.

[39:06] Marya says Sierra Signorelli is the other honoree for the Gala. Sierra and Marya worked together early in their careers at AIG. They got a significant start to their careers then. They've known each other for a long time. Marya praises Sierra and is so happy to be doing this with her.

[39:32] Justin notes that Sierra is the Zurich U.S. CEO and the Zurich Commercial Insurance CEO. Those are not easy titles to achieve. Zurich is a global insurance carrier. Marya admires Sierra's career trajectory and the leadership influence she has had on so many.

[39:51] This is the first time there have been two female honorees in the history of the Spencer Gala. Marya says sharing that honor with Sierra, someone she knows, trusts, and respects so highly, makes it even more special and a night to look forward to. She can't wait!

[40:17] Marya is now a Director of Distinction on the Spencer Board. Her RT Specialty colleague, Michael VanAcker, is on the Spencer Board today. Marya mentions that Pat Ryan was honored by Spencer at one of the first Galas. Tim Turner, RT Specialty CEO, introduced Pat that year.

[40:53] RT Specialty has had a seat on the Spencer Board for years. Marya is a Director of Distinction as she is a former Board Chair. They ask her to be an advocate where Megan Miller needs her, and to be conversant on where Spencer continues to support and drive results.

[41:18] Marya stays in touch and makes sure she knows what is going on with the programs and schools they are partnering with. Her role is to be informed, be an ambassador, and jump in at any place that Megan and the Spencer team would need her to influence, help, and support.

[41:41] Marya spoke at the E&S Insurer conference. At the end of the conference, she brought Megan Miller in and introduced her to the writers' folks and asked if they could get a five-minute spotlight on Spencer next year. That is an example of where Marya can try to help.

[42:15] Marya says Spencer scholars are so excited about their insurance career. There is nothing more infectious than their enthusiasm for the career path they have chosen. To talk to a young person who has their whole life in front of them is super energizing for Marya.

[42:57] Marya says that when a young person wants to talk to her and spend time with her, she thinks it is great. Enthusiasm is infectious.

[43:05] At the end of the day, Marya wants to leave the insurance industry in a much better place than it was when she came into the business. Spending time with young people who will be the leaders of our industry in the future, there's no better feeling.

[43:30] Marya says that anything she can do to have influence, set an example, or help them think through something helps her to continue to feel wildly enthusiastic about her career. She loves when she gets to spend time with the young brokers and underwriters at RT Specialty.

[43:52] Justin says that the scholarship recipients he has seen on stage at the Gala have been so impressive. They're in school, and they're so involved. They're a shining example of what we want the future of this profession to be.

[44:10] Marya says that there was no way, when she was 22 years old, that she could have gotten up in front of a room of 800 people in her profession and spoken like that. She would never have been able to do that. Their ability to get up in front of that audience and talk is huge!

[44:37] Marya is impressed by what they talk about, in terms of their careers, and what they've learned.

[44:42] Marya is delighted that Spencer has basically kept the Gala format consistent. The focus is on the students and the benefits that Spencer funding drives for the industry.

[44:56] It's a place where you can see real impact on real lives because of the fundraising dollars that the risk management and insurance industry has stepped up and invested. That's the focus. Then they have dinner. There are two honorees, and they wrap it up.

[45:12] Marya loves that they have never complicated the program for Gala. It has kept the focus in the right place, which is what they are doing to fund the future leaders of the insurance and risk management industry. She's excited to meet the Spencer scholars who will speak at the Gala.

[45:35] Marya says that lots of times the speakers bring their families. She says her Mom and Dad will be there. That will round out what's going to be a terrific and exciting evening.

[45:47] Jason says, We look forward to seeing you there on September 17th at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City. Marya will be there with her old friend Sierra Signorelli. It's going to be a fantastic, tremendous time! The link to the Funding Their Future Gala is in this episode's notes.

[46:08] Marya, we're very happy for you. Congratulations again! I can't wait to see you again in September. Marya looks forward to seeing Justin again and the team from RIMS, another long-standing, awesome, successful partnership between Spencer and RIMS.

[46:27] Special thanks again to Marya Propis for rejoining us here on RIMScast! We congratulate her again in advance of her receiving the honor at the Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala, which will be held on September 17th at the Waldorf Astoria in NYC.

[46:47] Visit https://www.spencered.org/ for more information and to purchase your ticket and for sponsorship opportunities. Join us next week, as we will be joined by Spencer Board Chair Johnell Holley. We will learn all about his career journey and risk philosophies.

[47:03] Plug Time! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in the show notes.

[47:32] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them! Contact pd@rims.org for more information.

[47:50] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit https://rims.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[48:08] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[48:24] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at https://www.rmmagazine.com/. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[48:37] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[48:49] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Session Submission Deadline: Friday, June 19

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | http://www.rimscanadaconference.ca/ | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMScast on YouTube!

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS-CRO Certificate Program In Advanced Enterprise Risk Management | July‒Sept. 2026 Cohort | Led by James Lam | Register Now!

2026 Florida RIMS Educational Conference | July 28‒Aug. 1 | Register Now

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ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today and Submit an Educational Session!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Look for the Awards Edition in "Digital Issues"!

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Prep Virtual Workshops:

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | July 21‒22, 2026 Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"Too Hot To Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation" | July 16 | Presented by Zurich

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Spencer Day 2026 | The Future of Strategic Risk Management"

"Risk Management Momentum with Tim Ryan" (2025 Spencer Honoree)

"The Strengths of DE&I Initiatives with Lilian Vanvieldt-Gray of Alliant Insurance Services" (2024 Spencer Honoree)

"RIMS Honor Roll Inductee Emily Buckley"

"RIMS Rising Risk Professional Award Winner Tyler Vaughan"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" (New!) | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against An Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

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RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

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About our guest: Marya J. Propis, RT Specialty, President, Retail Distribution

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.