RiskCellar

In this episode of Risk Seller, Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartman talk with Chris Moore, chief underwriting officer at iBot, and Ted Pike of Concilium about how the London market is approaching autonomous vehicles and AI risk. Chris explains why structured and ART deals tend to be all-or-nothing for both sides, why Lloyd’s can afford to back autonomy when US carriers face cannibalizing their own auto books, and why he thinks the expected and intended injury exclusion creates a quiet AI coverage gap. Ted covers the broker’s role as educator and how quickly he can spot an AI-written submission. The episode closes with the launch of iBot America, which will write primary autonomous auto coverage in the US. No wine today but some strong coffee was had.

A conversation with Akash Samant, Co-Founder and CEO of Coverflow — the AI startup using machine learning to eliminate the back-office grind at commercial insurance agencies. We get into policy checking, proposal automation, Applied Epic integration, and what it actually takes to sell AI to an industry that runs on trust.

Plus our Max Revenue Monday news briefings: breaking down the voluntary dismissal in the Macy’s/Aon employee benefits class action, the Corgi/Golden consolidation play, what WithCoverage means for how consumers shop for coverage, and a Recall of the Week that every product liability underwriter should hear.

RiskCellar. For the people who actually work in risk.

In this episode, Brandon and Nick dig into the latest survey from the Big I and why it's looking at the industry through rose-colored glasses without telling the whole story. Then they break down Meta's new Muse, an AI agent that can send your emails, chase down answers on your behalf, and shop your insurance for you. Is this the end for personal lines agents? Finally, we sit down with Ilia Pinchuk, founder and CEO of Diceus, to talk about where AI is taking insurance software. Ilia explains why Diceus charges based on outcomes instead of per seat, how brokers can cut down on the everyday friction of legacy systems, and why enterprise AI needs guardrails and a clear audit trail when one mistake could mean issuing the wrong coverage. Nick was drinking Clase Azul tequila. He said Michaela bought it for their 12th anniversary because its blue-and-white colors reminded her of where they got married in Santorini. Brandon was drinking Laphroaig Quarter Cask Scotch, his favorite Scotch.

In this episode, Brandon and Nick sit down with Taylor Chafin (Imperial PFS) and Chase Courtney (AndDone!) to break down how premium finance can become a real revenue stream for producers and agency owners, not just a convenience for insureds. They cover buy rate vs. sell rate, how agency fees can be built into the APR, state by state markup rules, and why building a relationship with your premium finance rep matters more in a softening market where everyone is shopping down payments. They also dig into how AnDunn is consolidating payments and premium financing into a single link and infrastructure so producers stop chasing down separate systems.

In this episode, Brandon and Nick pour a glass of wine dive into the latest in insurance news. They break down Bill Gates' new essay proposing "Human Reserved" jobs and what that means for the future of work for insurance pros, the Meta social media lawsuit settlement, rising "nuclear verdicts", and the growing E&O exposure from AI liability and deepfakes.

In this episode, Brandon and Nick kick things off with wine talk (a Domaine Serene Pinot Noir vs. a Dry Creek Valley Zinfandel sipped from a coffee mug), a Ted Lasso-inspired mustache update, and a shoutout to their record-breaking episode with guest Ashley Fetyko.

They dig into Meta's mounting legal troubles — nearly $900M in recent verdicts and a $1.4 trillion multi-district case now in jury selection in Oakland — and debate whether social media needs age-gating regulation.

From there it's a run through casualty market headlines: commercial auto combined ratios and nuclear verdicts (including a staggering $300B punitive Texas dram shop verdict), underinsured property values, captives going mainstream (with Alabama raising its formation threshold), AI's cyber-liability blind spots, a new "Sage" AI platform launch, American Family's acquisition of Bowhead, Florida's litigation reform payoff, and the head-scratcher of declining workers' comp rates.

They close with a "Three Truths and a Lie" round on social media adoption stats and this week's recall: over 1.7 million Louisville Ladder attic stairs pulled for bolt-failure risk.

In this episode, Brandon and Nick talk with Ashley Fetyko from Tyson Mendes and Apex Defense Consulting . They deep dive into the rise of nuclear verdicts, the psychological tactics used by plaintiffs' attorneys, and strategies to defend against these high-stakes cases.

Hosts Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann return for another episode of RiskCellar, and the headline story is North Carolina litigation financing. North Carolina has become the first state in the country to pass an outright ban on third-party litigation financing, with Governor Josh Stein signing House Bill 315 into law in June 2026. Find out what the law prohibits, why insurance trade groups are celebrating it, and what it could mean for other states.

Beyond the North Carolina litigation financing news, Brandon and Nick cover a data breach at the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, CFC's move to add affirmative AI coverage across seven product lines, the deadly earthquakes that struck Venezuela and the Caribbean, and how Chubb-led marine war risk facilities are easing capacity strain in the Strait of Hormuz. The episode wraps with a Fourth of July round of Three Truths and a Lie.

This episode blends sharp insurance analysis with the hosts' casual banter, making topics like North Carolina litigation financing approachable for brokers and underwriters. Listeners get a fast-moving tour of the week's biggest insurance and legal stories.

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North Carolina is the first state to enact an outright ban on third-party litigation financing.

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House Bill 315 makes it unlawful to engage in or furnish litigation investment in a North Carolina civil proceeding.

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The law took effect July 1, 2026, applying to lawsuits arising on or after that date.

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The Attorney General can enforce the law with penalties up to $50,000 per violation.

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At least 11 other states already have some restrictions on litigation funding.

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NAIC confirmed a breach exposing 3.1 terabytes of data via an Oracle PeopleSoft vulnerability.

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CFC is embedding affirmative AI coverage across seven core product lines.

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Chubb-led marine facilities offer up to $400 million in Strait of Hormuz shipping capacity.

00:00 Introduction to Claims Auditing and AI Solutions

01:22 Celebrating Achievements in Brokerage

04:38 Wine Tasting and Personal Updates

05:39 Fourth of July Plans and Celebrations

06:39 Political Commentary on National Events

09:11 Litigation Funding Legislation in North Carolina

11:47 Data Breach at NAIC and Its Implications

15:47 Insurance Industry Responses to AI Risks

19:06 Natural Disasters and Their Impact on Insurance

21:29 Geopolitical Commentary on U.S.-Iran Relations

24:39 Insurance Developments in Maritime Risk

28:07 Trivia and Closing Thoughts

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Brandon Schuh:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

If you've ever wondered what your insurance agency is really worth in today's market, and whether now is the right time to sell, this episode cuts straight to the chase. Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann sit down with two sharp industry voices: Varada Bhat, Senior Correspondent at the Financial Times' P&C Specialist, and James Graham, Managing Director at MarshBerry, the nation's leading M&A advisory firm for insurance brokerages. Together, they untangle the intersection of AI disruption, carrier strategy, and brokerage valuations in what is shaping up to be one of the most pivotal moments in the history of independent insurance distribution.

Varada Bhat opens the conversation with a ground-level view of where the personal lines market stands today, transitioning out of a hard market cycle, into a softer, more competitive landscape where carrier retention has become the new growth strategy. She digs into State Farm's sweeping workforce realignment, the broader shift away from the captive agent model across carriers like Allstate and Nationwide, and how AI is splitting the industry into two camps: those stuck in pilot mode and those already deploying agentic AI across claims and operations. The critical takeaway? Underwriting discipline and customer service still matter more than any algorithm.

James Graham follows with the kind of inside-baseball analysis you can only get from someone doing valuation work every single day. He breaks down why private brokerage multiples have held steady even as public broker valuations dropped more than 20% from their March 2025 peak, and why that divergence makes sense. He lays out what buyers are really paying for right now (organic growth, scale, and retention), why the softening market is the real driver of multiple compression, not AI, and why the fundamentals of the insurance brokerage business remain among the strongest of any industry. For agency owners wondering whether to sell now or wait, his perspective is a must-hear.

Chapters

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00:00 Introduction

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04:47 Varada Bhat Interview Begins: P&C Market Overview

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06:28 Carrier Retention as the New Growth Strategy

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07:24 AI in Insurance: Pilot Phase vs. Deployed Reality

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09:48 State Farm, Allstate & the Decline of Captive Agents

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11:55 AI Automation: Simple vs. Complex Insurance Products

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14:22 Lemonade, Root & the Insuretech Valuation Reality Check

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16:55 Geico Hires Goldman Sachs CMO: UX and Millennial Strategy

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19:47 AI Regulation in Insurance: NAIC Guidelines & State Laws

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21:33 Who's Best Positioned to Win the AI Era?

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24:40 Personal Cyber Policies & Consumer Data Privacy

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26:23 Insurance Affordability as a Political Issue

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32:29 James Graham Interview Begins: MarshBerry Origin Story

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34:35 Public vs. Private Broker Valuation Divergence

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39:16 What Buyers Are Really Looking For Today: Organic Growth

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41:55 Private Equity Activity: Strategic vs. Dry Powder Deals

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43:58 EBITDA Multiples: Are 11-12x the New Normal?

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46:06 Debt Leverage, Hold Times & PE Exit Bottlenecks

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48:02 AI's Role in Brokerage Multiple Compression

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50:10 Revenue Per Employee & the AI Productivity Argument

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52:58 Regulation as Insurance's AI Moat

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55:26 Client Retention Post-Acquisition: What Really Drives It

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57:48 2026–2027 Outlook: Will Big Blockbuster Deals Continue?

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

James Graham

Website: https://www.marshberry.com/about/our-team/james-graham/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-graham-b91a5214

Varada Bhat

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/varada-bhat

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

RiskCellar is back with a packed episode that feels like the insurance industry itself, equal parts serious and unfiltered. Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann sit down to unpack a week that saw some of the biggest AI-driven headlines to hit the P&C space in recent memory. From a massive brokerage laying off 2,300 employees and blaming AI, to a CNN lawsuit targeting an AI search engine, to an InsurTech startup valued at $2.6 billion on just $40 million in revenue, nothing about this week is normal. And that's exactly the point.

The episode digs into the Acrisure story, where roughly 2,300 jobs are being cut, the second round of layoffs in a single year, with AI cited as the primary driver. Brandon and Nick do the math. At $300,000 average revenue per employee, that's a $690 million bet on AI's ability to fill the gap. They zoom out to connect this to the broader PE pressure story, exits, soft markets, rising interest rates, and a potential IPO on the horizon. The conversation doesn't stop there. New York State's newly signed auto insurance tort reform law gets a thorough breakdown, including the new $100,000 cap on non-economic damages and tightened comparative negligence thresholds that could finally start moving the needle on affordability. And the CNN vs. Perplexity lawsuit opens a bigger conversation about AI as a derivative product, one that can't function without the journalism it may ultimately be destroying.

Rounding out the news block is a closer look at Corgi, the AI-focused MGA that just raised at a $2.6 billion valuation despite generating only $40 million in revenue, a 65x multiple that leaves both hosts scratching their heads. Brandon draws a pointed parallel to boutique consulting firms now competing with McKinsey-sized players thanks to AI tools, a trend with direct implications for insurance brokerages of every size. The episode wraps with a "Three Truths and a Lie" segment on classic TV shows and a round of Simpsons trivia, staying true to the show's blend of sharp industry analysis and genuine conversation between two people who genuinely enjoy talking shop.

Takeaways:

• Acrisure's 2,300-person layoff represents a \(690M\) bet that AI can replace human production capacity.
• PE-backed brokerages are under compounding pressure from soft markets, rising rates, and IPO timelines.
• New York's auto tort reform caps non-economic damages at \(100,000\) and tightens comparative negligence rules.
• AI is a derivative product, it depends on journalism and original content to function.
• CNN filed suit against Perplexity for alleged copyright infringement in New York federal court.
• Corgi's \(2.6B\) valuation at \(65\times\) revenue raises serious questions about InsurTech market rationality.
• Boutique brokerages now have the firepower of Aon or Marsh thanks to accessible AI tools.
• Alleged class action litigation is brewing against a PE-backed brokerage over unpaid producer compensation.

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome to RiskCellar

2:45 Big News Tease + What Are You Drinking?

4:00 Memorial Day Weekend Recaps

7:38 This Week's AI Theme Intro

8:00 Acrisure Layoffs: The \(690M\) AI Bet

17:30 Sponsor Break: IPFS + freeflow.ai

17:4 CNN vs. Perplexity: AI and Journalism's Collision

21:05 Corgi's \(2.6B\) Valuation and the InsurTech Bubble

23:30 Boutique vs. McKinsey: AI Levels the Consulting Playing Field

27:10 SpaceX IPO, Elon Musk, and Market Insanity

29:00 Howden TROs and Industry Legal Wars

30:38 Three Truths and a Lie: Classic TV Edition

32:17 Simpsons Trivia: First 100 Episodes

33:57 Upcoming Guests and Episode Wrap

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

The insurance industry is shifting fast, and this episode of RiskCellar doesn't let a single headline slide. Hosts Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann are back in the cellar breaking down three of the most talked-about stories in the industry right now. The Rad Power Bikes wrongful death lawsuit and what it means for micro-mobility product liability, the escalating legal fallout from Howden's alleged broker raid on Brown & Brown, and the accelerating softening of the reinsurance market that's reshaping valuations across the board. Plus a deep dive on the collapse of litigation finance as an asset class, and why that might matter more than anyone's admitting.

Brandon brings his front-row seat at the Christensen Group specialty desk to every story, and Nick matches him stride for stride with sharp market observations from the field. The episode covers the wrongful death suit filed by Shannon Stephens against Rad Power Bikes after an e-bike lithium-ion battery fire in an Alabama garage on January 3, 2025, killed her husband, Dr. Keith Stephens. Brandon unpacks the legal complexity of successor liability after Rad Power's bankruptcy, notes that the company's assets were reacquired for roughly $13 million, and questions whether the evidence standard will meet the plaintiff's burden given expert testimony that focused on design containment, not outright defect. The CPSC's intervention requiring UL certification for e-bike batteries is also examined in the context of legacy stock.

The second half of the episode is equally dense. Brandon and Nick dissect the Brown & Brown vs. Howden broker raid litigation, including a new Minnesota temporary restraining order barring 16 former Brown & Brown employees now at Howden from soliciting clients or recruiting staff. With $31 million in business allegedly lost and Howden carrying roughly $5 billion in total debt against a $3 billion revenue base, the guys ask tough questions about runway and financial viability. They also explore the quiet implosion of litigation finance as an asset class, Burford Capital's 47% stock drop on a single day after a $16.1 billion Argentina judgment was overturned in a US appeals court being the centerpiece moment, alongside JP Morgan's latest analysis calling for continued reinsurance price softening into 2027. It's a dense, entertaining, and genuinely insightful look at where the market stands right now.

Key Takeaways:

• Rad Power Bikes faces a wrongful death lawsuit tied to a lithium-ion battery thermal runaway event in January 2025
• Successor liability questions are unresolved, old entity is defunct; assets were acquired for ~$13M in bankruptcy
• Brown & Brown obtained a Minnesota TRO barring 16 former employees at Howden from soliciting clients or staff
• Brown & Brown disclosed ~$31M in lost business from the Howden broker raid on a recent earnings call
• Howden carries approximately $5B in debt against a ~$3B broker revenue base, a tight leverage position

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

01:55 Banter, Travel & Industry Events

09:45 Rad Power Bikes Wrongful Death Lawsuit

14:05 E-Bike Battery Safety, CPSC & UL Certification

17:25 Brown & Brown vs. Howden, Broker Raid Update

20:55 Howden's Debt Load & Financial Runway

24:05 Property Rate Softening, Real Numbers from the Field

26:40 Deductible Buy-Down Policies & Adverse Selection Risk

29:45 Litigation Finance Collapse, Burford Capital & Argentina

37:40 JP Morgan: Reinsurance Softening Into 2027

39:15 Three Truths and a Lie: Space Edition

47:00 AI at Insurance Innovators Conference

51:25 Data Centers in Space? Cooling Logistics Debate

52:45 Wrap-Up & Cheers

Connect with Risk Cellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com

Brandon Schuh

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

Nick Hartmann

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann

Rusty Field, President & CEO of Evenstad Estates (home of Domaine Serene), joins RiskCellar hosts Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann for a side-by-side tasting of four wines, two from Burgundy and two from Oregon's Willamette Valley. Rusty shares the career journey that took him from United Health Group and Ameriprise Financial to Upsher-Smith Laboratories, and ultimately to leading one of America's most awarded wineries.

The episode covers the science of winemaking. Why Pinot Noir thrives at the 45th parallel in both Oregon and Burgundy, how French oak barrels protect wine through tight grain structure, and why the 2022 Evenstad Reserve Chardonnay won Best Wine by Quality at the 2025 Sommeliers Choice Awards. Rusty breaks down the difference between volcanic Jory soil in the Dundee Hills and Burgundy's limestone-rich gravel terroir.

The back half pivots to the 2020 Oregon wildfire vintage, frost candles in Burgundy, mildew wiping out 70% of the 2024 Côte de Nuit crop, and how Evenstad uses library wine inventory as a hedge. Rusty closes with an open invitation to connect on LinkedIn for insider travel guides to both wine regions.

Key Takeaways

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The 45th parallel creates nearly identical growing seasons in Oregon and Burgundy, ideal for Pinot Noir

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2022 Evenstad Reserve Chardonnay: Best Wine by Quality, 2025 Sommeliers Choice Awards (96 pts)

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French oak's tight grain allows controlled oxygen exchange, Pinot Noir ages 14–18 months, Chardonnay ~12

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Mildew destroyed 70% of 2024 Côte de Nuit crop; 2020 wildfire smoke taint exposed limits of crop insurance

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~7,200-member wine club drives ~50% D2C revenue, unusually high for the industry

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All Evenstad vineyards are dry-farmed and transitioning to full organic certification

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Rusty offers personal LinkedIn insider travel guidance for Burgundy and Oregon wine country

Chapters

00:00 Welcome & Guest Introduction

01:00 How Rusty Joined the Evenstad Family

04:48 Pharma to Wine: The Career Pivot

08:32 Oregon vs. Burgundy Tasting Lineup

09:00 First Pour, Château de la Crée "Les Graviers" White Burgundy

12:56 Serving Temperature & Chardonnay Chemistry

16:58 French Oak Barrel Aging Explained

21:52 Second Pour, 2022 Evenstad Reserve Chardonnay (Oregon)

23:53 Oregon as a Premier Wine Region

28:42 Third Pour, Domaine Evenstad "Le Fusselot" Chambolle-Musigny

30:19 Evenstad's Expansion into Burgundy

35:07 Wine Club: 7,200 Members & D2C Strategy

38:06 Fourth Pour, 2022 Evenstad Reserve Pinot Noir

41:33 The 45th Parallel: Why Oregon Mirrors Burgundy

43:16 Dry Farming, Organics & Sustainability

45:12 Two Truths & A Lie: Wine History

48:38 Climate Risk: Fire, Frost, Hail & Disease

50:24 The 2020 Wildfire Vintage & Insurance Challenges

54:24 Parametric Coverage & Future-Proofing

57:07 Joining the Domaine Serene Wine Club

59:47 Rusty's LinkedIn Offer: Insider Wine Country Guide

01:00:09 Closing & Teaser for Episode Two at the Winery

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Rusty Field:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rustyfield/

Website: https://www.domaineserene.com/about/team/rusty-field

Brandon Schuh:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

What do Big Tobacco, social media algorithms, and the Strait of Hormuz have in common? They're all reshaping insurance right now. In this episode of RiskCellar, Brandon and Nick crack open a bottle and break down the insurance angles behind the biggest stories of 2026, Meta's landmark social media liability ruling, nuclear verdicts hitting record highs, and a first-of-its-kind federal ruling on AI and attorney-client privilege.

Brandon and Nick call Meta's social media addiction verdict a "Big Tobacco moment" for tech, and break down why courts ruled insurance coverage doesn't apply. They unpack the latest nuclear verdict data showing a 300%+ rise since 2015, cover Chubb and the USDFC building a government-backed Strait of Hormuz insurance facility, and discuss Uber's emerging role as the "Apple App Store of autonomy" in the autonomous vehicle space.

The standout legal story is U.S. v. Heppner, the first federal ruling confirming AI chatbot conversations are not protected by attorney-client privilege. They close with a sharp conversation on truth as the future's most valuable commodity and Three Truths and a Lie: UK Edition.

Key Takeaways

• Meta's social media verdict is a "Big Tobacco moment", but damages may not be big enough to change behavior
• Courts ruled Meta's conduct was intentional, so insurers don't have to cover the verdict
• Nuclear verdicts are up 300%+ since 2015, tort reform is gaining steam but remains gridlocked
• Chubb + USDFC are building a TRIA-style facility for ships navigating the Strait of Hormuz
• U.S. v. Heppner confirmed AI chatbot conversations are NOT protected by attorney-client privilege
• Uber controls ~70% of U.S. ride-share access, likely the gatekeeper of autonomous vehicle adoption
• AI tools are cutting insurance submission time from hours to minutes, use enterprise versions for data privacy

Timestamps

00:00 Cold Open & Weekend Catch-Up

06:18 Wine of the Night: Liquid Farm Pinot & Callejon Malbec

09:41 Pricing Corrections & Commercial Loss Development

12:41 Autonomous Vehicles & Uber's Role as Gatekeeper

19:50 Meta's Big Tobacco Moment: Social Media Liability

27:17 Data Privacy, App Permissions & the GM Controversy

29:35 Iran, Strait of Hormuz & Insurance Implications

41:19 Nuclear Verdicts: 300% Rise & Tort Reform

48:35 U.S. v. Heppner: AI Chats Are Not Privileged

51:10 AI Rent Pricing Antitrust Case

54:18 Truth as the Commodity of the Future

56:37 Three Truths and a Lie: UK Edition

Fact Checks (Corrections only)

• Meta verdict total: The $14–20B figure discussed refers to MDL settlement estimates for 42,000+ plaintiffs. The first individual bellwether trial (March 25, 2026, L.A.) awarded $6M to one plaintiff, $3M compensatory + $3M punitive, against Meta and YouTube
• Nuclear verdicts baseline: The 300% rise most accurately tracks 2020–2023. In 2024: 135 nuclear verdicts totaling $31.3B, up 116% year-over-year
• Texas renewables: Hosts self-corrected live. Accurate figure is ~37–40% wind + solar (not 78%) as of 2025
• U.S. v. Heppner: Confirmed, Feb 10, 2026, Judge Rakoff (S.D.N.Y.) ruled AI chatbot conversations with public tools are NOT attorney-client privileged

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann welcome John Neve, outside counsel at Quantum Lex, for a candid conversation about artificial intelligence's legal frontier. They explore how law firms treat large language models like efficient first-year associates requiring strict oversight, why public AI tools remain risky for sensitive client data, and real cases where lawyers faced sanctions for submitting court filings with hallucinated case law. The discussion reveals practical guardrails emerging as firms navigate AI adoption while protecting attorney-client privilege.

The conversation shifts to digital privacy after Brandon shares insights from Signal CEO Meredith Whittaker's recent interview. John explains why Signal's end-to-end metadata encryption differs fundamentally from WhatsApp's partial protection, and how AI prompt data creates new liability surfaces when users input client information into public models. They examine chilling recent cases where judges ordered defendants to surrender AI research logs to prosecutors based on platform terms of service, a warning for professionals using consumer tools for legal work.

Wrapping up, the team analyzes three interconnected risk vectors. Autonomous vehicle disruption threatening 2 million U.S. trucking jobs, Strait of Hormuz shipping lane volatility following geopolitical tensions, and $30 billion in market cap erosion across insurance brokers amid AI disruption fears. John argues product liability law must evolve to address AI-caused harms while Brandon notes mid-market agencies may actually benefit as PE-backed competitors struggle to maintain growth models in this new environment.

Key Takeaways

• Treat AI tools like efficient junior associates requiring thorough human review before client delivery
• Public LLMs lack sufficient guardrails for attorney-client privileged information
• Multiple U.S. lawyers have received monetary sanctions for filing pleadings with AI-hallucinated case law

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Guest Background

01:19 Proof of Law Podcast Focus

02:52 AI Productivity Gains in Legal Practice

06:21 Data Sensitivity in Law Firms

09:02 AI Hallucinations and Court Sanctions

13:30 Privacy Apps Compared

18:20 Legislative Guardrails Needed

22:45 Product Liability for AI Harms

27:28 Agent-Based Internet Future

30:00 Geopolitical Shipping Risks

36:54 Tariff Refund Rulings

40:00 Insurance Market Volatility

47:40 Two Truths and a Lie

Fact Checks

Claim: $30 billion insurance market cap destruction solely due to AI. Correction: Partially false. The actual market cap loss attributable to the AI-driven selloff was approximately $20–$25 billion, not $30 billion. The word "solely" is also inaccurate — AI was the trigger, but structural valuation issues and cascading investor fear contributed significantly. The $30 billion figure appears to be a rounded-up mashup of multiple distinct metrics (market cap losses, commission risk, and automation potential) that are being conflated.

Claim: Federal court ordered $120 billion tariff refund. Correction: The underlying event is real, a federal court did order the refund process to begin after the Supreme Court struck down Trump's IEEPA tariffs. But "$120 billion" is not the correct figure (it's $130–175 billion by most estimates), and the court did not order a lump-sum $120 billion payment. It ordered CBP to begin recalculating duties owed, the actual refund amounts are still being determined through ongoing litigation.

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Guest: John Neve

Website: https://www.quantumlex.io/john-neve/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnneve/

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

Insurance leaders Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann unpack the real impact of AI on insurance operations after Insurify's ChatGPT app triggered a 3.9% drop in the S&P 500 Insurance Index. They separate hype from reality, examining how AI actually enhances productivity versus serving as a scapegoat for strategic workforce reductions. The conversation explores Munich Re's Ergo unit cutting 1,000 positions partly through AI integration, while contrasting this with AIG's ambitious 500,000-submission target using their AIG Assist platform by 2030.

Major consolidation continues reshaping the industry landscape with Zurich's £8 billion ($11 billion) acquisition of specialty insurer Beazley following rejected initial bids, and Sompo Holdings' regulatory-approved $3.5 billion purchase of Aspen Insurance. Brandon and Nick also analyze the explosive Brown & Brown versus Howden lawsuit after approximately 200 employees departed during holiday season 2025, revealing tensions around non-compete enforcement and talent mobility in brokerage.

Beyond M&A drama, Schuh and Hartman discuss underwriting culture at Lloyd's marketplace where reputation risk follows individual decisions, the legal profession's AI adaptation challenges for entry-level associates, and why operational visibility, not more tools, solves agency productivity problems. They emphasize that AI's greatest value lies in eliminating tedious data analysis so professionals can focus on client relationships and strategic advisory work.

Key Takeaways

- Insurify's ChatGPT integration caused temporary market panic but represents comparison shopping evolution, not industry disruption

- AI productivity gains enable faster policy reviews while freeing teams for high-value client advisory work

- Munich Re's Ergo unit (not entire company) plans 1,000 position reductions over five years with AI assistance

- Zurich secured Beazley acquisition after multiple rejected bids reached £8 billion valuation

- Sompo Holdings (not Sampo) received regulatory approval for $3.5 billion Aspen Insurance acquisition

- Howden faces multiple lawsuits after approximately 200 Brown & Brown employees departed simultaneously in December 2025

- Lloyd's underwriters carry personal reputation risk with each binding decision in the marketplace

- Operational visibility tools like FreeFlow.ai solve agency bottlenecks without replacing producers

Chapters

00:00 Episode introduction and sponsor FreeFlow.ai

01:35 Return from hiatus and personal updates

06:15 Bourbon tasting and Bob Dylan discussion

07:14 Insurify ChatGPT app market impact analysis

08:42 AI fears versus realistic productivity gains

10:33 Legal profession AI adaptation challenges

12:48 Policy review efficiency transformation potential

13:07 Munich Re Ergo workforce reduction reality check

18:15 Industry consolidation: Zurich/Beazley and Sompo/Aspen deals

19:39 Brown & Brown versus Howden employee poaching lawsuit

21:38 Underwriting culture and reputation risk at Lloyd's marketplace

27:22 Ping An and global insurance employment statistics

28:44 AIG Assist platform exceeding submission targets

30:50 Two truths and a lie game segment

33:42 Closing remarks and next episode preview

Fact Checks

Correction: Sompo Holdings (Japanese insurer), not "Sampo," acquired Aspen Insurance for $3.5 billion with regulatory approval expected H1 2026

Clarification: Munich Re's Ergo primary insurance unit (not entire Munich Re) plans 1,000 position reductions in Germany over five years with AI integration

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

We dive deep into digital privacy enforcement, the exploding intersection of litigation finance and law firm operations, and how alternative business structures (ABS) and managed service organizations (MSOs) are reshaping legal services. Hosts Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann talk with Nick Rowles-Davies, CEO at Lexolent, dissect the FTC's landmark General Motors and OnStar settlement, which finalized in January 2026, revealing how millions of consumers unknowingly had their precise driving data collected, sold, and monetized without consent. The conversation explores the regulatory response, the growing complexity of fee-sharing arrangements in contingency-based litigation, and the philosophical debate between UK and US approaches to nonlawyer investment in law firms. Woven throughout are lighter moments, including a "two truths and a lie" game testing movie trivia knowledge about Back to the Future, Die Hard, and The Breakfast Club.

The episode reflects broader industry shifts like private equity capital flooding into legal services, litigation funders gaining unprecedented control over case strategy, and regulators tightening scrutiny on data-driven business models that exploit consumer blind spots. For legal professionals, insurance industry participants, and policy advocates, this episode maps the emerging terrain of consumer protection in connected vehicles, the ethical fault lines of litigation finance, and the practical mechanics of MSO structures designed to attract venture and private equity backing while skirting prohibitions on nonlawyer ownership.

Key Takeaways:

• GM/OnStar Settlement (January 2026): FTC finalized a major enforcement action banning GM from sharing geolocation and driving behavior data with consumer reporting agencies for five years and requiring explicit opt-in consent for all future data collection, a landmark win for privacy advocates concerned about insurance rate impacts.
• Alternative Business Structures (ABS): Limited to Arizona, Utah, and DC in the US, ABS allows nonlawyers to hold equity in law firms directly. This contrasts sharply with UK structures, where ABS has been legal for over a decade and shows more tolerance for mixed ownership models.
• Managed Service Organizations (MSOs) as Workaround: Since ABS remains rare in most US states, law firms partner with investor-backed MSOs that handle back-office, marketing, and technology functions, siphoning off overhead costs while keeping lawyer-owned firms appearing compliant with Rule 5.4 prohibitions.

Episode Chapters

•

05:30 Privacy & Digital Surveillance

•

08:30 GM/OnStar FTC Settlement Details & Data Monetization

•

10:00 AI Liability & Regulatory Uncertainty Discussion

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15:00 Settlement Negotiations & Litigation Strategy

•

18:00 Insurance Industry Corporate Raids & Fictional Premise

•

24:30 GM Truck Insurance Quote & Data Sharing Consent

•

27:00 Litigation Prediction & Case Strategy

•

28:00 Administrative Duties & Managed Services Models

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31:40 Guest Introduction & UK Legal System Background

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32:00 Alternative Business Structures & Private Equity in Law

•

35:00 Ethical Concerns in MSO Models

•

37:00 Margin Analysis & Contingency Fee Economics

•

41:00 Litigation Finance Benefits & Structural Risks

•

43:00 UK vs US Bar Ethics & Jury Trial Impact

•

45:00 Fee-Sharing Regulations & Risk Assessment

•

49:00 Regulatory Credibility & Litigation Finance Critique

•

55:00 AI Asymmetry in Litigation Strategy

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Guest: Nick Rowles-Davies

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-rowles-davies/

Portfolio: http://www.legalfinance.expert/

Substack: https://nickrowlesdavies.substack.com/

Company Website: http://www.lexolent.com/

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

This episode features Cliff Kupchan, Chairman of Eurasia Group, discussing the firm's 2026 Top Risks report and the dramatically changed role of the United States in the international system. Brandon & Nick explore how US domestic political convulsions create ripple effects globally, positioning America, not Russia, as the primary source of geopolitical risk. Kupchan analyzes Trump 2.0's muscular unilateralism, the "Donroe Doctrine" asserting control over the Western Hemisphere, state capitalism with American characteristics, and rising political violence domestically, including ICE raid activity in Minnesota. The discussion examines affordability crises, tariff dynamics with China, Greenland acquisition speculation, European security concerns, and Venezuela's uncertain future following US military intervention. We also touch on optimistic counterpoints around AI, India's growth, and Democratic electoral prospects.

Intertwined throughout are Brandon & Nick’s observations on Minneapolis turmoil, wine pairings (Humano Tequila Reposado and Caparsa Chianti Classico 2021), and lighter moments including a "truth and lie" trivia segment about Maine's proximity to Africa, Venus cloud composition, and Mount Everest measurements.

Key Takeaways

• The US is now the primary source of global political risk, displacing Russia, a historic shift reflecting the US dismantling the international system it created post-1945

• Greenland acquisition could destroy transatlantic trust, the foundation of NATO and EU-US economic relationships, with cascading consequences for global financial markets

• Midterm elections (2026) offer potential circuit-breaker: Democrats likely to take House back (~80% probability), enabling oversight and restraining Trump's most aggressive impulses

• AI and India represent genuine upside: Massive efficiency gains in insurance (200 basis point expense ratio reduction), AI revenue, and 7% Indian growth offer offsetting optimism

Episode Chapters

01:11 — Humano Tequila Reposado & Caparsa Chianti Classico 2021 Tasting Notes

04:17 — Howden M&A Strategy, Broker Litigation, and Alliance Capital Restraining Order

06:13 — Insurance Industry Expense Ratios & AI Impact ($9.3B Operating Income Uplift Forecast)

13:04 — Minneapolis ICE Raids, Political Violence, and State Security Concerns

23:26 — Venezuela Regime Change & Oil Uninvestability Discussion

30:19 — Cliff Kupchan Introduction & Eurasia Group Top Risks 2026

34:34 — Globalization Backlash & Right-Wing Populism Drivers

40:42 — State Capitalism, Credit Card Caps, and Trump's Contradictory Vision

43:56 — Tariff Negotiations with China & "Peak Tariff" Assessment

46:24 — Greenland Acquisition as Transatlantic Relationship Risk

51:50 — Democratic Midterm Prospects & Checks-and-Balances Outlook

53:37 — Positive Counterpoints: AI, India, and Saudi Arabia Reform

56:34 — Guest Departs; Return to Host Discussion

57:00 — Lake Minnetonka Geography Fact-Check (Swimming Distance Verification)

58:23 — "Truth & Lie" Trivia: Maine-Africa Distance, Venus Clouds, Mount Everest

01:03:52 — Show Wrap-Up & YouTube Channel Announcement

Fact Checks: Corrected Facts Only

Claim: Mount Everest is the tallest mountain when measured base to peak

• Status: INCOMPLETE/MISLEADING

• Correction: Mount Everest is highest by sea level elevation (29,032 ft), but Denali (Mount McKinley) has greater vertical rise from base to peak (~18,000+ ft vs. Everest's ~12,000-15,000 ft base-to-peak)

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Guest: Cliff Kupchan

Website: https://www.eurasiagroup.net/people/ckupchan

Organization Website: https://www.eurasiagroup.net

Email: kupchan@eurasiagroup.net

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

This episode of RiskCellar features a deep dive into the psychology behind jury decisions, covering why verdicts have surged 116% in just one year, alongside a breakdown of the shocking 200-person overnight raid by Howden on Brown & Brown's Minneapolis operations.

Host Brandon Schuh and co-host Nick Hartmann examine the litigation chaos while interviewing Christina Marinakis, CEO of Verdict Insight Partners, who reveals how jury composition has fundamentally shifted toward anti-corporate sentiment, particularly among millennial jurors. The conversation exposes the data-driven science of jury selection, the rise of polarized deliberation rooms, and what defense counsel must understand about modern juror psychology in an era where median verdicts have jumped from $21 million to $51 million in just four years.

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction

05:00 - The Howden Raid Breakdown: Brown & Brown Story

14:00 - Hayes Companies History & $750M Acquisition Details

15:00 - Jim Hayes' Journey & Relationship with Howden

18:00 - Minneapolis Benefits Exodus & Covenants Discussion

22:00 - Court Victory & Temporary Restraining Order

25:00 - Settlement Values & Account Damages

28:00 - Howden's Strategy Backfire & Client Relationships

35:00 - Guest Introduction: Christina Marinakis

36:00 - Jury Consultant Background & Gene Hackman Comparison

40:00 - Mock Trials vs. Real Trials & Shadow Juries

45:00 - Verdict Inflation Trends: $21M to $51M in Four Years

50:00 - Locus of Control: Core Predictor of Juror Bias

58:00 - Anti-Corporate Millennial Generation & COVID Impact

Takeaways

1. Nuclear Verdicts Are Accelerating: 135 nuclear verdicts ($10M+) in 2024 represent a 52% increase over 2023, with the median verdict jumping to $51 million from $21 million in 2020, driven by advertising, social media anchoring, and third-party litigation funding.

2. Locus of Control Is the Strongest Predictor: The most reliable indicator of a plaintiff vs. defense juror is internal vs. external locus of control, whether jurors believe individuals or external factors determine outcomes, more predictive than demographics or experience.

3. Millennials Are the Anti-Corporate Generation: Millennials experiencing economic hardship (home ownership, debt) and exposed to corporate scandals (Enron, Wells Fargo) now dominate juries with significantly higher anti-corporate bias than prior generations.

4. COVID Destroyed Government Credibility Defense: Pre-COVID, "FDA/EPA approved" arguments worked; post-COVID, jurors distrust government agencies and dismiss regulatory compliance as a defense strategy due to shifting messaging around masks, vaccines, and guidance.

5. Jury Polarization Is Creating Contentious Deliberation Rooms: Hung juries increased from 2-3 annually (pre-2022) to 12 in 2022 alone, with escalating incidents of jurors being excused due to verbal conflict, reflecting broader societal polarization bleeding into the jury box.

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Christina Marinakis

CEO, Verdict Insight Partners

Email: christina.marinakis@verdictinsight.com

Website: verdictinsight.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christina-marinakis-18328410

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

Brandon Schuh sits down with Dean Hildebrandt, President and CEO of Assurex Global, to explore how mega-broker consolidation is reshaping the insurance brokerage landscape. As consolidation accelerates in 2025, with mega-brokers absorbing smaller firms through billion-dollar acquisitions, including Willis Towers Watson's $1.3 billion purchase of Newfront and Baldwin Group's $1 billion acquisition of CAC Group, the conversation reveals how private equity is driving transactions that, while profitable for financial sponsors, leave clients, carriers, and employees bearing the costs. Dean brings two decades of expertise from his leadership at Associated Benefits and Risk Consulting and his pivotal role at Ahmann-Martin before joining Assurex.

Dean challenges the prevailing narrative around these mega-deals, arguing that the real winners aren't clients or carriers but private equity firms extracting value through EBITDA portfolio plays. Throughout the episode, he details how consolidation is accelerating talent acquisitions and market share gains for independent, regionally-focused brokers like those in the Assurex network, firms that prioritize relationships, client service, and stability over spreadsheet metrics. The discussion also highlights Assurex's structural innovation: the launch of AG London, a first-of-its-kind London wholesale broker owned by 30 Assurex firms that operates under perpetual independence and cannot be acquired or sold.

As the industry looks ahead to 2026-2027, Dean and Brandon examine how technology and AI will reshape brokerage operations while emphasizing that true competitive advantage lies in understanding the full value chain. The episode underscores a fundamental tension in modern insurance. Whether consolidation will create better client outcomes or simply enrich financial sponsors while destabilizing the very firms and relationships that hold the industry together. For independent brokers navigating this landscape, the conversation offers both cautionary lessons and a compelling vision of an alternative future.

Chapters

02:30 – Wine recommendations and AI tool comparisons

07:00 – Introduction to Dean Hildebrandt and his background

10:00 – Dean's entry into brokerage and early career with Ahmann-Martin

14:00 – Overview of 2025 consolidation trends and mega-broker activity

16:30 – Willis Towers Watson acquires Newfront for $1.3 billion

19:00 – Baldwin Group purchases CAC Group for $1 billion

22:00 – Private equity's role in driving M&A transactions

26:00 – How consolidation impacts clients, carriers, and employees

31:00 – The absence of client perspective in private equity discussions

35:00 – Deal sizing and EBITDA economics in mega-acquisitions

39:00 – Why independent brokers are thriving amid consolidation

42:00 – Introduction to Howden's US market entry strategy

46:00 – Assurex's strategic response: AG London launch and structure

51:00 – Dean's journey to Assurex Global leadership

54:00 – Technology, AI, and automation in brokerage operations

58:00 – How carriers are adapting to industry transformation

61:00 – Conclusion and future outlook for independent brokerage

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartma

nn/

Dean Hildebrandt - President & CEO, Assurex Global

Website: https://www.assurexglobal.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dean-hildebrandt-09810ba

About Assurex Global:

Founded in 1954, Assurex Global is the world's largest privately held commercial insurance, risk management, and employee benefits brokerage group, combining local expertise with global reach across more than 600 partner office

RiskCellar is back with episode 70, marking a major milestone for hosts Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann as they dive into the most pressing insurance broker consolidation trends shaping 2025. The episode kicks off with major industry news on the Baldwin and CAC merger, a billion-dollar deal that reflects ongoing consolidation in the insurance brokerage space. While the acquisition comes in smaller than recent mega-deals, the merger creates what Baldwin calls the largest majority colleague-owned publicly traded insurance broker, signaling continued market consolidation and M&A activity that benefits independent brokers.

The hosts explore critical developments in insurance technology and autonomous vehicle safety, including Tesla's recent sensor and camera upgrades designed to improve their self-driving system performance in challenging conditions. The conversation reveals how insurance industry players are monitoring autonomous vehicle advancements, telematics driver monitoring programs, and commercial auto liability trends, including the growing use of cameras and driver scoring to reduce claims. They also discuss the implications of unlimited liability insurance in the UK market and significant pricing differences in Canadian insurance, where casualty risk pricing can be 40% lower than US market rates.

A major highlight involves the Rad Power bike battery recall and CPSC safety concerns, where the federal agency issued a unilateral opinion declaring all RAD batteries defective without conducting independent testing. The hosts debate the fairness of this regulatory action, noting that Rad Power faces potential bankruptcy from a million-unit recall despite only 31 documented incidents causing $750,000 in cumulative damage. The episode also covers Lloyd's of London CEO John Neal's resignation following an inappropriate workplace relationship scandal, insurance industry news on Ryan Specialty's new public sector MGU launch, Howden's aggressive hiring expansion, and a playful segment on insurance truths and lies featuring alien abduction coverage.

•

Tesla's autonomous vehicle technology still lacks adequate camera systems compared to competitors like Waymo, delaying full self-driving capability

•

Telematics and driver monitoring are becoming essential risk management tools for commercial auto liability, despite employee privacy concerns

•

CPSC regulatory actions can devastate companies without scientific testing, raising questions about fairness and due process in product safety decisions

•

International insurance markets show dramatic pricing variations, with Canadian and UK markets offering

02:00 Thanksgiving Turkey Cooking Methods & Holiday Stories

03:30 Episode Celebration & Drinking Toast

04:35 Baldwin & CAC Merger: $1B Insurance Broker Consolidation

09:25 Ryan Specialty's Public Sector MGU Launch

10:00 Public Sector Insurance Competition & School Bidding Challenges

11:15 Canadian Insurance Market & International Pricing Differences

14:15 Tesla Autonomous Vehicle Camera Upgrade Challenges

16:00 Chevrolet Diesel Truck & Frank Cruz Shout Out

16:30 Howden Hiring Expansion & Legal Costs Impact

8:50 John Neal Lloyd's CEO Scandal & AIG Withdrawal

21:40 New Zealand Kiwi Cultural Reference & Gender Diversity in Insurance

23:25 Rad Power Battery Recall & CPSC Regulatory Overreach

26:00 Battery Incident Statistics & Scientific Method Concerns

28:15 Dog Interruption & Personal Stories

29:10 Don Julio Tequila & Podcast Memorabilia

31:30 Alien Abduction Coverage Predictions for 2026

32:50 Recall of the Week: Ozark Trail Camping Stove

35:25 Upcoming Guests & Litigation Funding Panel Discussion

Connect with RiskCellar:

Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/

Brandon Schuh:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/

Nick Hartmann:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/