Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music

This episode was originally published in 2025.

Glenn Kaiser has had a huge influence on Christian music as a musician, a festival co-founder and an outspoken thought leader. He was our top guest choice for our live taping in January of 2025 in Chicago.

While Glenn Kaiser is a singular figure in the world of Christian music, we are aware that Jesus People USA is a triggering topic for some listeners. For a more thorough examination of Jesus People USA check out the book Grey Sabbath or for the perspective of abuse survivors from JPUSA, the film No Place To Call Home.

This interview does not go into the topic of abuse, but we gave Glenn the opportunity to address it via email. He said,

"The sad reality is sins of abuse, etc. happen and how to best respond to such regardless is a long work that has progressed for us. Over the past decade we've established several professional safeguards to ensure the safety of children and policies to address it. All in leadership and most in the wider fellowship have completed courses re. abuse and are mandated reporters."

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This episode was originally published in 2024.

In 1999, ​singer-songwriter Jennifer Knappwas at the top of the Christian music world. Her debut album Kansas was gold-certified, she'd won four Gospel Music Association Dove Awards, and she was on tour with some of the top bands in the business. It seemed like Knapp was destined to be the ultimate ​rockstar poster child for evangelical teens - especially young women. But ​that frame was ​an uncomfortable​ fit for Knapp​. She was an adult convert, and the evangelical norms that young women learned from the world of CCM were new to her. Eventually, at the height of her fame, Jennifer ​moved across the globe, and disappeared from the world of CCM. Yet even when ​s​he thought her stint in Christian music was over, ​Jennifer's fans had other ideas. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow Knapp’s story, and explore how, together with her fans, she’s making new meaning out of the ​Christian music of her past.

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This a special addendum episode to season 4. Nico Muhly is an extremely accomplished composer known for work with Sufjan Stevens, Bjork, Grizzly Bear, Steve Reich, Philip Glass and so much more (including two operas for The Met). He's also had a sort of parallel career composing sacred music in the English choral tradition. On Sunday, October 4, 2026 a sacred music piece he made as composer in residence at Christ Church Oxford will have its NYC debut at Carnegie Hall. We had a wide-ranging discussion with Nico about his approach to composition and how he moves between the high art world and the sacred music world so effortlessly.

From Taverner to Today - Christ Church Cathedral Choir at 500 - Carnegie Hall, October 4, 2026

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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This is episode was originally released in 2024.

If there's one music genre lampooned more than Christian rock, it might just be ska. And Christian ska? Expect next level ridicule. But a lovable band of misfits from Denver, Colorado managed to do something that might seem unthinkable: combine two maligned genres and become a cultural phenomenon with an enduring cult following. On the season two finale of Rock that Doesn't Roll, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the unlikely rise of Five Iron Frenzy, with insight from Leanor Ortega Till, aka "Jeff the Girl," aka the saxophonist from one of the best-loved bands in the Christian rock universe.

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This episode was originally published in 2023.

For 1990s evangelical teens, punk, hardcore, and ska were a gateway to a passionate, edgy way to express their Christianity outside the mainstream. But was the music and the message enough to keep the evangelical faith? In this episode, originally published in October 2023, hosts Andrew Gill and Leah Payne follow three Christian punk rock stories from Dr. Bradley Onishi of Axis Mundi Media, author D.L. Mayfield, and Tim Whitaker of The New Evangelicals as they share their stories of loving, leaving, or holding on to evangelical Christianity - and the music that fueled their teenaged devotion.

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Adam Voith began his career in the music industry alongside the early bands riding the Tooth and Nail boom, blurring the line between Christian rock and the secular music industry. He went on to be a booking agent with clients including Vampire Weekend, Bon Iver, Haim, The Mountain Goats, Father John Misty and more. Now he's retired from the music industry and has gone back to his first love: independent publishing. He's just released his third novel, fictionalizing his experiences in the Christian rock world alongside the band Roadside Monument (with cameos from MXPX, Joe Christmas,Trey Many of Velour 100 and James Morelos of Made in Mexico Records).

The title? A phrase we know all too well: Recommended If You Like. Adam is giving away this book- shipping included- so there's no reason not to get your own copy.

If you'd like to join a group conversation with Adam about this book, vote in our survey here: https://www.patreon.com/rtdr/posts/should-we-do-166031311

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Matt Hinton has only been a member of Luxury for 27 years, so he's the new guy in the band. He's also a documentary filmmaker with two feature length films to his name: Awake My Soul: The Story of The Sacred Harp (co-directed with Erica Hinton) and Parallel Love, which is the story of Luxury.

Awake My Soul has been reissued in HD and with other assorted improvements. To mark the occasion, a number of theatrical screening are happening around the country. Find one near you at https://awakemysoul.com/

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Scott Hatch grew up Methodist, but learned about DIY music at his college radio station. When he started his label, Burnt Toast Vinyl, in 1996 he put out bands that had a similar background to him- fellow youth group kids.

One of those youth group kids was Randall Stephens. He grew up Nazarene, but was inspired by bands like Pavement and Guided By Voices to start the band Jetenderpaul in the early 1990s. After releasing three albums and a handful of singles for Velvet Blue Music and Burnt Toast Vinyl, Stephens went on to become a respected academic who researches the intersection of Christianity and rock music. His book, The Devil's Music, is essential reading on the topic.

This year Burnt Toast Vinylre-released Jetenderpaul's second album, The Woolen Spires on vinyl for the first time.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Scott Carter is the host of Ye Gods, a podcast and public radio show that explores codes of religious, cultural and secular conduct with notable guests like Martin Short, Killer Mike and Moon Zappa among many others. Scott is an award-winning executive producer and writer, known for his work on Real Time with Bill Maher and Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher.

In this interview he shares how his views on religion have shifted over his life, the role music plays in his spiritual practice and shares Hollywood stories about Martin Scorcese, Gary Shandling. Brian Wilson and more.

For the month of July Ye Gods is presenting a series called "For God And Country" in honor of America's 250th Birthday.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Chad Matheny is better known by his folk punk band name, Emperor X. His 12th full length album, Unified Field, is out on June 26 and features a single called "Praise Jesus! Hail Reagan!" Much of the album was recorded in Ukraine during the war with Russia. Chad has lived in Berlin, Germany since 2012.

Chad also happens to be a friend of Andrew Gill's since they attended public middle school and high school together in Jacksonville, Florida.

This episode includes discussion of Chad's megachurch upbringing, his thoughts on the "trad cath" trend, why more leftists need to call themselves Christians and what Andrew was like in high school.

Emperor X's playlist of CCM bangers

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Jewly Hight is a noted music journalist best known for her work with NPR Music, Nashville Public Radio, The Bitter Southerner and more. She's also a friend of Leah's from their days together in grad school at Vanderbilt Divinity School. In this conversation we talk about how Jewly got into music, her most regrettable tattoo, her feud with the Supertones' singer, clogging, Jelly Roll and so much more.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

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Flamy Grant may be the world's only Christian drag queen songwriter. She's one of the few queer artists to ever top the Christian music category in the iTunes Store. She's also a guest we've wanted to have on the show since before season one launched. We get an update on whether Flamy and Amy Grant have met yet, manifest a few dreams and get to the heart of what keeps Flamy performing in churches. Also, we consider the possibility of approaching drag as a folk art form.

Flamy also answers questions posed by members of our Patreon community.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Nina Hagen is a true legend. She's considered an icon of German culture. And she's known as "the Godmother of German Punk." But our interview with her revealed that she also should be considered a longtime Jesus Freak. Her latest album, "Highway To Heaven" was released earlier in 2026.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Tim Dillinger returns to the podcast to continue our examination of 1985 as a pivotal year in Christian music. This time his focus is on artists who tried to break into the Christian industry, including Donna Summer and Maria Muldaur. He also discusses Lone Justice, Mr Mister, Steve Arrington and Tremaine Hawkins. He also reflects on how the industry in 2026 compares to what was happening in 1985.

For more on all of these artists, subscribe to Tim's Substack: God's Music Is My Life.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Rosie Thomas is a singer-songwriter who came up alongside artists like Damien Jurado, Pedro The Lion and Sufjan Stevens. She was one of the first folk artists signed to Sub Pop Records and had a long-running comedic alter ego named Sheila Saputo. Her most recent music project is Lullabies For Parents.

In this interview she talks about her experience as a child performing in musicals, joining Velour100, working at a daycare with Damien Jurado, signing to Sub Pop, performing at Lilith Fair in 2010, breaking through Sufjan Stevens' defenses and acting alongside Steve Zahn.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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In the late 1990's Andrew Osenga's high school band caught the ear of a member of Whiteheart. That led Osenga to Nashville and his band, The Normals, releasing three albums on ForeFront Records. In the decades since The Normals disbanded, Osenga has toured as a member of Caedmon's Call, worked as a music executive, written the book How To Remember and created the podcast, The Pivot, to just scratch the surface of his CV.

In this conversation we talk about how touring with The Normals exposed Osenga to a wider variety of Christian religious traditions than his small "cornfield church" did. He also talks about how the current worship industry commercialization has led to a shallow understanding of Christian faith.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Jeremy Alder is a comedian who mines his life as a homeschooled youth group kid growing up in Texas for jokes that will probably be very relatable for our audience. We talk with Jeremy about his special, Purity Pants, his album, Almost A Grown Man, and his failed Christian rock band, Nineveh (or 9veh if Jeremy had his way).

Jeremy also is a seminary graduate, a former preacher and creator of the series "Christians Who Don't Suck" on his Instagram.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Want to contribute to our Christmas Special? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Sam Sanders is the host of The Sam Sanders Show from KCRW. He was a founding host of The NPR Politics Podcast and It's Been A Minute from NPR. Sam grew up in the Black Pentecostal church in Texas, where he played saxophone in the church band. Eventually he would sneak riffs from D'Angelo's Voodoo album into improvised sections of church services. In 2025 The Sam Sanders Show won the Signal Award for Best Spirituality Show.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Want to contribute to our Christmas Special? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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Rock That Doesn't Roll is coming back with Season 4 launching on March 4th. We'll be publishing every other week after that.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

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This episode is a feed drop from Transmissions with Jason Woodbury from Aquarium Drunkard. Here's their original show notes:

This week, we have an exceedingly rare interview with Jason Martin, of California dream pop band Starflyer 59. Fermented in the nascent Riverside dream pop underground alongside his brother Ronnie Martin of Joy Electric in the early '90s, Martin's band SF59 released its debut album, Silver, 30 years ago in 1994 on the fledgling Tooth & Nail label. His latest, Lust for Gold, finds him winking knowingly at the title of his 1995 album Gold, a record routinely cited as one of the best shoegaze albums of all-time.

Incorporating elements of the band’s feedback-drenched early sound, the new album finds the years catching up with a guy who has been singing about being old since he was in his early 20s. From the band’s monochromatic album covers to Martin’s notoriously sparse interviews—check out the one we did at Aquarium Drunkard for an example—he’s always preferred to let the music do the talking.

But this talk finds him settling in for a longform chat about his history, his songwriting practice, how familial connections bind his musical projects, and much, much more. Joined by guest co-host/interlocuteur Andrew Horton, this conversation is the most revealing interview to date with Jason Martin of Starflyer 59.

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