School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast

Remember standing in the video store on a Friday night, holding two boxes and trying to decide which movie to rent? According to my old friend Brian Cottington, head of video marketing at Libsyn, that's exactly how YouTube works in 2026. This week Brian explains why your thumbnail is a billboard (not an SEO tool), the three thumbnail styles that work best for podcasts, why his slick motion-graphics intro caused his viewers to fall off a cliff, and whether you should use AI to make your artwork.

And even if you're thinking, "Dave, I don't do YouTube," stick around. Everything we talk about works for episode artwork and titles in audio-only podcast apps too. Plus, a word of caution about NaPodPoMo before you sign up for 30 episodes in 30 days.

There's No Such Thing as Competition in Podcasting

Here's a fun fact: Brian found me through the Podcasters' Roundtable, a show I did with Daniel J. Lewis and Ray Ortega, who are technically my "competition." He liked what he heard, started listening to the School of Podcasting, and years later we worked together at Libsyn.

Brian does the same thing on his own show, The Cinema Psychos. He keeps an eye on social media, spots movie podcasts he thinks are funny, and invites them on as guest reviewers. The Silver Linings Playlisthttps://tslppodcast.com/podcast and the Movie Dumpster podcast are regular collaborators, and they trade appearances every few months. To the new podcaster who worries a guest will "steal" their audience, Brian puts it best: you're starting at zero, so it can only help you. At the very least, you're building a network of people who will like, comment on, and share your stuff.

Why Brian Added Video to His Podcast

Brian has always been a filmmaker. He started podcasting in 2016 as a creative outlet (an article by Kevin Smith gave him the nudge), and only moved to video after hearing Doc Rock from Ecamm encourage podcasters to try it. The question that sold him: is my audience there? For a movie show, a big chunk of it was on YouTube.

Two things I love about how he approached it. He treated it as an experiment, and he's having fun with it, constantly looking for ways to make the workflow faster so he doesn't burn out producing both versions. If video stops being fun for you, quit the video, not the podcast.

Your YouTube Thumbnail Is a Billboard

Brian answered my "where do I start?" question with a question: what made you pick a movie at the video store? The box art. Then the title. Then you flipped it over and read the hook on the back. YouTube is just the video store in 2026.

His process for packaging an episode:

• Find the hook first. What's the main value of this episode? What do you want people to walk away with?
• Put that hook at the very beginning of the episode. It doesn't have to be a cold open, but it has to be up front.
• Make the thumbnail and title reflect that same hook. The thumbnail stops the scroll. The title gives the image context. The first line of the description backs it up.

The mistake he sees constantly is treating the hook, the title, and the thumbnail as three separate things. If someone clicks and doesn't immediately get what those two signals promised, they bounce. It's also why I got straight to the interview this week. You saw Brian's face on the artwork, so you knew it was an interview. Nobody needs to hear what my cat did to my couch first.

3 Podcast Thumbnail Styles That Work

At Podcast Movement, Brian broke down the thumbnail styles podcasters use most. Hint: don't make a MrBeast thumbnail. You're not doing challenge videos.

• Host and guest flanking the image, with four to six words. Not the episode title. The most curiosity-driving words you can find. If the episode is about weight loss, the thumbnail might say "I wish I knew this sooner," and the title says "How I Lost 25 Pounds With One Technique." Brian calls that the "brain gap."
• Your face reacting to a visual story. He showcased the Call Me Chris podcast, which uses this with no text at all. It's great for topic-based shows because it triggers an emotional "what am I looking at?" response.
• No words at all. You don't have to put text on a thumbnail.

The thing I was guilty of: slapping the episode title on the artwork. The thumbnail and title should work together, not repeat each other.

Episode Artwork Matters for Audio-Only Podcasts Too

If you don't do YouTube, this still applies. Apple Podcasts showcases episode artwork, and the eye directs the hand to click. Brian's theory (his words, not a study) is that audio listeners are easier to convince than video viewers, because they're already in the mindset to sample an episode. Packaging your audio episodes this way can give you an edge.

Moving From Audio to Video: Rethink Your Episode Structure

The biggest shift for audio podcasters going to video isn't the camera. It's the content structure. A long music bumper followed by ten minutes of breakfast banter might look fine in your Apple consumption graph, but a video-first audience won't sit through it.

Brian learned this the hard way. He built a beautiful 20-to-30-second motion graphics intro, and YouTube Studio's audience retention graph showed a cliff right when it played. Now it's about five seconds, just the logo, then straight to him. His advice: if you want to play YouTube's game, you have to play YouTube's game. Don't try to run an audio-only playbook in a YouTube sandbox.

It works the other way, too. If your show is built for video, check how it sounds as audio. Brian tried to listen to an AI tutorial podcast and couldn't follow it, because everything was on screen. Know not just why your audience consumes your show, but how.

Live Streams Are Different

I confessed that my live streams start with an intro and an ad, and the content doesn't arrive for about two minutes. Brian's take: treat live as its own thing. A monthly live episode is for super fans who want to interact with you, and bumpers don't matter there. The Movie Dumpster crew does a no-frills wide-shot Q&A live once a month, completely separate from their heavily edited regular episodes.

Should You Use AI to Make YouTube Thumbnails?

Tools like 1of10 (around $90 a month), TubeBuddy, and VidIQ will make thumbnails for you. Brian, a fine artist and graphic designer at heart, uses AI as a helper, not a replacement:

• Upscaling or cleaning up an image in Adobe Firefly is fine.
• He hadn't shaved one day, so he gave Firefly a still and asked it to make him look sad with a three-quarter turn. It was a little creepy, but good enough.
• A/B test it. YouTube lets you test thumbnails. Try an AI-assisted one against one you made, and keep whichever drives more watch time.
• Don't clone someone else's thumbnail. The algorithm is smart enough to notice, and if your hook and title don't match, a ripped-off thumbnail won't save you. Study the composition and adapt it for your audience instead.

Should You Put Your Audio Podcast on YouTube as a Still Image?

Nobody is forcing you to do video. The podcast police are not going to knock on your door. Brian did still-image episodes for four or five years, and his most-viewed video, with over 100,000 views, is a still-image interview with an actor from the 1996 movie Skyscraper starring Anna Nicole Smith. He has no idea why.

But understand the expectation: people click on YouTube to watch video. Big shows can get away with a static image. Indie podcasters have to work harder. If your audience is genuinely on YouTube, consider simple live-action video. If not, a still image is fine, just expect low engagement.

Brian's Favorite Podcast and Video Tools

• Ecamm Live for recording (he loves the vertical feature for social clips)
• Stream Deckhttps://geni.us/elgato-streamdeck-xlto live-edit his show, so production takes as long as recording
• Premiere Pro for editing
• Photoshop's Generative Fill to extend his backgrounds (Canva occasionally)
• Adobe Firefly for AI image help
• VidIQ, his one paid YouTube tool recommendation (there's a free version)
• Claude and ChatGPT for automation experiments
• Kit for his newsletter (though he admits he's terrible at newsletters)

And CapCut? He doesn't like it. The multicam feature he'd tested disappeared in the middle of a live demo, and support told him it wasn't released yet.

My Take: Don't Let Video Kill Your Podcast

I know YouTube's game. I just don't have the time to play it fully, so I do what I can and accept the results. My biggest fear is the podcaster who adds video thinking it's the thing that will catapult them, gets crushed by the extra time, effort, and money, and then cancels the whole podcast instead of dropping the video. Former Libsyn colleague Elsie Escobar said it well: try video, and if it works, great. If it's too much, go back to audio.

NaPodPoMo: 30 Episodes in 30 Days

November is NaPodPoMo (National Podcast Post Month), where you record 30 episodes in 30 days. For a brand-new podcaster, it's a great way to get your reps in. Measure uploads, not downloads. Just know that around day 12 you may run out of content and feel the pressure. If you feel overwhelmed, remember it's batting practice. Unless you're planning a daily show (which is a huge grind without a team), that's not what podcasting normally looks like. Check it out at napodpomo.org, and say hi to Jennifer for me.

Launching a Podcast in January 2027?

Start now. Aim to have it ready around December 10, because Apple takes a couple of weeks off at the end of the year.

Mentioned in this episode:

Podpage Stopped her From Quitting Her Podcast!

Kelly Palace does the Outswim Podcast (outswimpodcast.com) and has been doing it for years. She was ready to unplug the show when she discovered Podpage. It took many workflow items off her plate and kept her podcasting. Start your free 14-day Trial at podpage.com/preview

Podpage

Your Podcast Starts TODAY

Check your calendar - 2027 is right around the corner. Want to launch your podcast in January? Here’s the catch: Apple takes a couple weeks off at the end of the year. Miss early December, and your launch could slip. So start planning now. The School of Podcasting gives you courses, coaching, and a community to get it done right. Visit schoolofpodcasting.com and use coupon code LISTENER. Join worry free with a thirty-day money-back guarantee. Your January launch starts today

School of Podcasting

Question of the Month: What is a "Newbie Podcaster"

Poll Question: What makes someone a “newbie podcaster”? Is it how long they’ve been podcasting or how many episodes they’ve published? Is it something else? How would you define a newbie podcaster? Leave your answer at schoolofpodcasting.com/question by November 27th and don't forget to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. (Please try to keep them under 5 minutes if you can).

Question of the Month

Live Appearacves

November 7th Podindy.com use the coupon code sop - Whiteland Indiana November 12th at 3PM Daniel J. Lewis will be doing a Demo of Podgagement. Brought to you by Podpage.com Register at schoolofpodcasting.com/where

Where Will I Be?

When Did It Feel Like You Had "Real" Listeners?

A grocery store clerk recognized one of my listeners' co-hosts. A pharmacist gets stopped at conferences for selfies. And one podcaster got an email that ended with, "Yesterday, you and Krista saved lives." This month's Question of the Month asked how long it took before you felt like you had real listeners, and what made you realize it. Seven podcasters answered, and here's what surprised me: not one of them said "when I hit a million downloads." If you're staring at your stats wondering whether anyone is out there, press play. I'll also show you the real median download number on Buzzsprout (it's probably a lot lower than you think) and the 30-second test you should run on your website right now.

(Links to everyone's show is at the bottom of this post)

Why I Asked This Question

I'm trying to help new podcasters set realistic expectations. This month's question and next month's are both about that. So: how long did it take before it felt real, and if it doesn't feel real yet, what would make it feel that way?

Neal Veglio: Feedback, 100%

I recorded Neal's answer live on Ask the Podcast Coach when he sat in my co-host's chair. For Neal, it's feedback. Our mutual friend Rob Walsh is right that you shouldn't crap on the download, because it's the only measurement we've got. But a download is a number. An email, a text, any outreach from your community, is what tells you it's actually landing with people. When Neal gets an email, he celebrates.

Josh Liston: "We Listened to Know If We Wanted to Move Here"

Josh hosts Sake This, a short-form sketch show about news, trivia, and travel stories from Japan. But his "real audience" moment came from a hyper-local show he co-hosts with Mel called Punching Sideways. Multiple people told them they listened before moving to town (for work, the military, whatever) to learn about the local music scene, the sports stars, the art scene, the comedians. All from a podcast they started just to make each other laugh. His advice: it took a while, so stick with it.

Mark Lawley: "Yesterday, You and Krista Saved Lives"

Mark from Practical Prepping watched the download numbers like everyone else at first. The real moment came around the one-year mark, when listener emails started showing up: thank-yous, topic suggestions, and then the ones where people had followed their advice during a severe weather event or personal crisis. He shared one at Empowered Podcasting about a young mom of two who bought a NOAA weather radio and packed a go bag after listening. When a tornado warning hit her area, the radio alerted her, and she grabbed her kids and the bag and went to the shelter. Her email ended with the line above.

I have a NOAA weather radio (affiliate link) because of Mark. Here in Ohio we get tornado warnings on a fairly regular basis. If you don't have one, get one.

Rob Dalrymple: Real Listeners Before Episode One

Rob hosts the Softball Central Podcast, helping players, parents, coaches, and fans navigate the fastpitch softball world. He jokes that he had real listeners before he even started (or that's optimism and caffeine talking). His coming-soon promo got over 2,000 views, and his three launch episodes racked up over 400 listens and views in the first week.

Not Joe Rogan numbers? I used to teach, and 20 people was a full class. 400 is twenty classrooms. That's a very long hallway of people.

What Rob really wants is community. If you want to test that idea cheaply, Skool runs about nine bucks a month. And to get the rest of the softball world listening: business cards are cheap. Put a QR code on them and hand them out at games. (Rob, I hope to see you inside the School of Podcasting soon.)

Chris Smith: Recognized at Harbor Freight

Chris and his co-host run Cool Cars with Chris, hitting cars-and-coffee events around Southern California and showcasing other people's rides. The show just turned one. The moment it felt real: his co-host was shopping at Harbor Freight and the clerk recognized him from the podcast. A total stranger who found the show in his feed.

Kim Newlove: Six Months, a Florida Student, and a Troll

Kim hosts two shows, The Pharmacist's Voice and The Perrysburg Podcast, and both took about six months to feel real.

• The Pharmacist's Voice: after episode 22, a pharmacy student in Miami messaged her on LinkedIn about her poison-prevention volunteer work. She's in Ohio, he's in Florida. That's when she knew she was reaching beyond people who already knew her. Now people ask for pictures with her at pharmacist conferences and tag her on social media. Her guests promoting their episodes tells her they're listening too.
• The Perrysburg Podcast: episode 20 featured the city's crime prevention specialist and public information officer talking about porch pirates around Christmas. Both offered to share it on the city and police social channels. For the first time she had help promoting, the comments rolled in ("I didn't know Perrysburg had a podcast!"), and the downloads took off.
• The troll: she interviewed someone a listener didn't like, and he let her have it. Annoying, but proof people are listening.

Two things I'd do differently: Kim was told to launch with 20 episodes and waited until then to promote. That recommendation was not from me. Record test episodes if you want (even 20 versions of episode one), but promote the minute your show is live. Getting no downloads while nobody knows you exist can be soul-crushing.

And a tip on pictures: if someone says "I listen to your show," they may want a photo but feel awkward asking. Beat them to it: "It's so great meeting you. Can I get a picture with you?"

My Answer: A Voicemail From Germany

I was bankrupt, divorced, and living in my brother's basement when I started podcasting. Less than six weeks in, I got a voicemail from Michael Van Laar in Nuremberg, Germany, and about fell out of my chair. I was in nowhere, Ohio. Another time I announced a speaking gig and Kale Nelson reached out because it was near him and offered to take me to dinner. Same lesson: somebody's out there.

And I still say you're not a real podcaster until you get a one-star review. You moved somebody. Just not the way you wanted.

Make It Easy for People to Reach You

The theme here is people reaching out. So:

• Have a clear "Contact" button on your website.
• Test it right now. Send yourself a message and make sure it arrives.

Every year when I do my favorite-episodes round-up, I find shows where the only way to reach the host is an Instagram DM. Everybody understands email. Use whatever you like, but make it easy.

An Apology to Chris and Albert

Fan List (I love Pat over there) had a bad day and truncated messages to five seconds. So I got exactly "Hey, Dave Jackson" from Chris Nesi, the king of ed tech, and "Hello, Dave, this is Albert Bermanti from Mental Rehearsal Podcast" from Albert. Chris even re-recorded after I asked on Saturday's live show. Since I use Captivate, I can drop their full answers into this episode dynamically later, so if you hear them, that's why.

For now, https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question lets you upload a file or leave a voicemail, and the new "Leave Voicemail" button goes to https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail, the voicemail system built into PodPage (two-minute limit).

Speaking of Albert: Mental Rehearsal is the show where, at our School of Podcasting listener party, we all asked "when is this going live?" If you're a perfectionist, check out his August 16 episode on dealing with perfectionism.

Nobody Mentioned a Big Number

Not one person said "when I passed a million downloads." It was always that somebody was listening. If you're "only" getting 60 downloads an episode, that's three classrooms.

Go to https://www.buzzsprout.com/stats. As I record this in October 2026, the median is 27 downloads per episode after seven days. Half of shows get more, half get less. The top 1% are close to 5,000.

But as Ray from Around the Layout says, it's not how many, it's who many. 2,000 people who love knitting but never want to start a podcast aren't my audience. Podcasting is like golf or bowling: you're only as good as your last game, and comparing yourself to someone who's played longer (or had John Lee Dumas's savings runway) doesn't help.

Be Careful: People Might Actually Do What You Say

New podcasters freak out because nobody's listening, then freak out because people are. I once consulted with a guy who owned both a Zoom PodTrak P4 and a RØDECaster. Why both? "You said it was cool." That's $600 he didn't need to spend. People listen, and they might act on what you say.

Please Don't Email Me Your Answer

I say this with love: use schoolofpodcasting.com/question. Everything lands in MediaFire (which notifies me) or Fan List. Email is a third place, and I get roughly 80 emails a day, 79 of them junk. Your answer will get lost. And if you emailed me and I never answered, reach out again. While we're at it: that "I'd love to be a guest on your show" email is probably a bot. Want to learn how to pitch yourself the right way? Visit pitchapodcast.com, and share any good (or bad) pitches you've received.

If you want your podcast ready by January, now's the time to start planning. It's not about starting quickly, it's about starting correctly. My free course is at podcastinginsixweeks.com, and if you want hands-on help, head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. Show notes are at schoolofpodcasting.com/1059, courtesy of PodPage.

Shows & Websites Mentioned

This month's contributors

• Neal Veglio, Podcasting Insights / Pod Mastery: https://podmastery.co
• Josh Liston, Sake This: https://sakethis.com (also co-hosts Punching Sideways with Mel)
• Mark Lawley, Practical Prepping: https://practicalprepping.info
• Rob Dalrymple, Softball Central Podcast: https://softballcentralpodcast.com
• Chris Smith, Cool Cars with Chris: https://coolcarswithchris.com
• Kim Newlove, The Pharmacist's Voice: https://thepharmacistsvoice.com
• Kim Newlove, The Perrysburg Podcast: https://perrysburgpodcast.com
• Albert Bermanti, Mental Rehearsal: https://mentalrehearsal.show
• Chris Nesi: https://chrisnesi.com

Also mentioned

• School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com
• Episode show notes: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/1059
• Send in your answer: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/question
• Leave me a voicemail: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail
• Buzzsprout podcast stats: https://buzzsprout.com/stats
• Around the Layout (Ray): https://aroundthelayout.com
• Pitch a Podcast: https://pitchapodcast.com
• Podcasting in Six Weeks (free course): https://podcastinginsixweeks.com
• Skool: https://skool.com
• PodPage: https://podpage.com

Mentioned in this episode:

School of Podcasting: Coached Plan

You don’t need another list of things you could do with your podcast. You need help figuring out what to do next—and someone in your corner to help you follow through. With School of Podcasting: Coached, you get everything in the School of Podcasting, plus a weekly meeting with me, Dave Jackson, text access between meetings, and clear next steps after every session. Less second-guessing. More moving forward. Join School of Podcasting: Coached today—and let’s get your podcast where you want it to go.

School of Podcasting: Coached

Podpage Stopped her From Quitting Her Podcast!

Kelly Palace does the Outswim Podcast (outswimpodcast.com) and has been doing it for years. She was ready to unplug the show when she discovered Podpage. It took many workflow items off her plate and kept her podcasting. Start your free 14-day Trial at podpage.com/preview

Podpage

Question of the Month: What is a "Newbie Podcaster"

Poll Question: What makes someone a “newbie podcaster”? Is it how long they’ve been podcasting or how many episodes they’ve published? Is it something else? How would you define a newbie podcaster? Leave your answer at schoolofpodcasting.com/question by November 27th and don't forget to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. (Please try to keep them under 5 minutes if you can).

Question of the Month

Unlock Exclusive Insights: Subscribe to 'Podcasting Observations' Newsletter!

Get a look into the world of podcasting like never before with "Podcasting Observations," your go-to source for trends, tips, and transformative insights tailored just for podcasters. You also get "behind the scenes" info from the School of Podcasting Don't miss out on staying ahead of the game—join the 1700+ people who are already reading Podcasting Observations today!

Podcasting Observations

Live Appearacves

November 7th Podindy.com use the coupon code sop - Whiteland Indiana November 12th at 3PM Daniel J. Lewis will be doing a Demo of Podgagement. Brought to you by Podpage.com Register at schoolofpodcasting.com/where

Where Will I Be?

A friend of mine gets more and more opportunities. Why because he takes advantages of each and every one. He prepares and over delivers.

I had an opportunity where I could deliver content on MY timeline and while my information was helpful, I took a weird path to get to the point. As someone who embraces feedback, the folks at the buzzcast gave me some loving feedback, I took it, and today I explain where I went wrong and how you can stay focused to deliver razor sharp content that gets people sharing your content.

What is the main point, and are all of your points in alignment?

When you have a segment in your show, do all of the bullet point that make up that segment contribute to the value? Do you makes the same point multiple times? Do you take a crooked path to the point?

What would the audience ask if they were in your chair? That's a good place to start.

The Easiest Way to Speed Up Editing

The easiest way to speed up editing is to have a clear understanding of what your audience wants. The more you know, the more you know what to keep and what to lose.

Don't Ruin the Recording With Active Listening

Active listening is when you say things like, "Sure, uh huh.." to show someone you are listening. You don't want to do that in a podcast as you are stepping on the guests answers. When they start talking, SHUT UP AND LISTEN, and write down any follow questions and go back to listening.

An Interview is Meant to Make the GUEST look Good

I hear so many podcasts hosts throw in a comment that is more of less, "I did that too" which is great in a conversation, but we don't need to hear the same point twice. At one point Chevy Chase said, "Can you see I'm in the middle of a story" when he was on the Bill Maher show Club Random.

Research Links

Research Links

• Anthony Hopkins on Being Estranged From His Daughter - The Interview
• Billy Corgan interview Matthew Sweet on The Magnificent Others
• Bill Maher Club Random with Chevy Chase
• Buzzcast
• Geologic Podcast with George Hrab
• Congressional Dish
• Bill Burr's Monday Morning Podcast Animated: Shari's Berries - YouTube

Mentioned in this episode:

Tired of AI Support Bots? Try Podpage.com

While other companies are shoving more AI down your throat in support, Podpage hosts WEEKLY new user orientation meetings (with open Q&A) and if you have more questions you can schedule a live support call. Podpage is not just the best website building tool for podcasters by podcasters, it has the best support. Start your Free 14-day trial at www.podpage.com/preview

Podpage

Don't Wait to Level Up Your Show

Thinking about starting a podcast—or already 300 episodes in? Skip the rookie mistakes, save money, and level up your show with the School of Podcasting with Dave Jackson, where you get hands-on feedback, one-on-one support, and practical advice that actually improves your podcast. Not sure? Just ask Krista and Mark from practicalprepping.info Then join the School of Podcasting at www.schoolofpodcasting.com/join (or use the link below)

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Question of the Month

This months' question is, " How long did it take before you felt like you had "real listeners" — and what made you realize it? If you don't feel it now, what would make it feel "real"? I need your answer by October 23rd. Don't forget to mention your show, your tagline, and your website. Go to schooolofpodcasting.com/question

Question of the Month

AI Can Now Delete Your Podcast Ads. Here's Your Plan B.

What if your listeners could tell an AI to cut every ad out of your podcast and get back a clean file a few minutes later? That's not a hypothetical anymore. Adam Curry, the co-inventor of podcasting, just did it on the Podcasting 2.0 show, and the episode he tested turned out to be roughly half ads. If any part of your income depends on advertising, this one's for you. I walk through what happened, why Bill Burr's "terrible" ad reads actually sold more product, the real math on what Captivate, Buzzsprout, Supercast, and Patreon take from your premium subscriptions, and the soul-crushing (but honest) numbers from my own paid newsletter. And at the end, I ask you a question about AI that has nothing to do with your podcast and everything to do with your life.

AI Just Stripped the Ads Out of a Podcast

On Podcasting 2.0, Adam Curry connected his AI tool to Podcast Index using something called Model Context Protocol (MCP), which is a fancy way of saying "a way to plug AI into other systems." Then he asked it to grab the latest episode of Ed Zitron's Better Offline and strip out the ads at the beginning.

Eight minutes later, it was done. The raw file was 12 minutes and 36 seconds. The actual episode was 6 minutes and 38 seconds. The AI removed a 2 minute and 54 second pre-roll block, verified the new file started right on Ed's "hello," and then offered to trim the three minutes of ads at the end too.

His co-host Dave Jones said what we were all thinking: it's over for ads. And honestly, when half your content is ads, can you blame people for wanting them gone?

Adam's Real Point: Discoverability

The following week, Adam came back and said we were all missing the point. He's excited about discoverability. If an AI can go fetch an episode and clean it up, it can also go "find me a show about blank," which is basically building your own search engine. His bot even offered to go get the next episode.

(For the record, when someone says "there's no discoverability in podcasting," what they usually mean is "nobody's discovered my podcast." Word of mouth works just like an algorithm, and it doesn't change the rules every month.)

I also got pitched by a company that wanted me to promote their ad-cutting app. I'm not naming them. As much as I dislike bloated ad loads, if you're selling an advertiser on getting in front of thousands of people and a chunk of them never hear the ad, that starts to look like fraud.

Want People to Listen to Your Ads? Make Better Ads

A theme I heard during the business days at Podcast Movement: if you want people to hear your ads, make them better. Exhibit A is comedian Bill Burr, who sold out Madison Square Garden. Back in 2013, he did a now-famous read for Shari's Berries where he read the company's instructions out loud and roasted the copy. The company called and asked him to take it down. He didn't. People ordered the berries anyway, partly because he said he'd get in trouble, it turned out they were delicious, and sales went up. Younger brands figured out that people were actually listening to him.

The catch today: brand-safety robots now scan transcripts, and in a lot of cases "brand safe" means "boring (IMHO)." They don't always understand slang. Tell a bot "that's the bomb" and see what happens.

Programmatic Ads vs. Selling Your Own Stuff

Programmatic ads (the Geicos and Progressives that aren't host-read) pay somewhere between $1 and $7 per thousand downloads, depending on who you ask. That's why so many shows stuff their episodes full of them.

Only 8.6% of podcast listeners say they could tolerate a few more ads if it keeps a podcast free, according to The Podcast Study 2026.

Meanwhile, 54.8% already say podcasts carry too many ads. see more

I've always said the most profitable way to make money with your podcast is to sell your own product or service. If you buy my book, Profit from Your Podcast, I make about $12. At a $5 CPM, I'd need 2,400 downloads to make the same $12.

Which is easier: 2,400 downloads, or selling one book to an audience you're specifically trying to attract?

The PBS Method: Premium Podcasts and Crowdfunding

No product? Try the PBS method: give people a great show, then ask them to support it. Here's what the big premium podcast platforms take (in USD, including card processing):

• Captivate: 12% plus processing, about 14.9% + 30¢ per transaction
• Buzzsprout: a flat 15%, fees included
• Supercast: 59¢ per subscriber per month, plus about 3.6% + 30¢
• Patreon (standard plan): about 12% + 30¢

The best choice depends on your price. On a $5 monthly tier, Buzzsprout leaves you the most, about $4.25. At $10, Supercast pulls ahead because its per-subscriber fee is flat: you keep about $8.75, versus $8.50 at Buzzsprout and $8.21 at Captivate. We're talking pennies per person, but multiply that by a few hundred supporters and it adds up.

My Paid Newsletter: Here's the Soul-Crushing Part

My newsletter, Podcasting Observations, lives on Substack and costs $4 a month. It has 2,407 subscribers. Sounds impressive, right? Eight of them pay. That's 0.3%, a tenth of the 3% I usually tell people to expect. Annualized revenue is up 73%, from $227 to $393. (So again, it takes time).

I won't blink at $400. Thank you to everyone who supports it. But that's what I call a "garden hose in the pool," not a fire hose. And the newsletter still pays off as a lead magnet, because some of those readers join the School of Podcasting.

Chapo Trap House: The Long Game

Want to see what the fire hose looks like? Go to Graphtreon, use Advanced Filtering, and show only podcasts. Chapo Trap House has about 46,000 paying supporters averaging $4.21 a month, which works out to roughly $194,769 a month. The catch everyone skips: they started in May 2016. They release free episodes and paywalled ones, and they've had a decade to build. It's not "which one way should I make money with my podcast?" Do them all.

Affiliate Income and Donate Buttons

• Amazon affiliates: I've made $129 in 2026 from around 134 orders, roughly a dollar an order, mostly microphones. Set it up once with things your audience actually wants. Every so often someone buys a $2,000 TV with their mic.
• Watch Amazon's rules. You can get booted for saying something like "shop with my link, it supports the show." It happened to comedian Jay Mohr. I use Genius Link, which also shows me what people click (right now it's Tom Webster's The Audience Is Listening and Storyworthy).
• PodPage has an affiliate program, and it pays nicely.
• Donate buttons: I like Buy Me a Coffee because it makes recurring support easy. It may take a little more in fees, but it's simpler for the listener. PayPal, Buy Me a Coffee, Supercast, and Patreon all integrate with PodPage.

AI Saves You Time. Now What?

I've used Claude to teach me Claude. For my free Podcasting in Six Weeks class, I drop the transcript of my hour-long session into it with my brand colors and ask for a summary sheet of the main points plus every URL mentioned. It comes out gorgeous and saves me a lot of time. My buddy John of Boomer Bunker (and his new show Over 50 Overhaul) is having a blast with AI too.

So here's what I want you to slow down and think about. If you spend $20 a monthon AI and it saves you time, what will you do with that time? The knee-jerk answer is "more social media, a newsletter, more podcast stuff." Before you go there, look at your life. More time with your spouse, your kids, your dog? Back to an old hobby? (For me, it's that losing weight is a lot harder now than in my 30s.) If your life is under major stress, it shows up in your podcast. I know this from experience. The better you are, the better your show can be.

Is This the End of Podcast Advertising?

I don't think so. Adam was tapping into something very geeky (MCP Connection into the Podcast Index), and we still have radio and newspapers. Changes like this take time. And with billions of dollars supposedly on the table, I don't see the advertising world just letting this happen. I expect them to fight back. But if all of your income comes from ads, it's time to work on a Plan B. 2027 is going to be a very interesting year in podcasting.

Podcasting in Six Weeks: Possibly the Last One

My free Podcasting in Six Weeks course starts in November and runs around the holidays, so you can have a show ready in January. We've been experimenting a lot at the School of Podcasting this year, and this may be the last time I run it. Get on the list at https://www.podcastinginsixweeks.com (the numeral or the spelled-out six both work, I bought both).

Ready to start now? Head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. The website is hosted at PodPage.

Next week: editing. I sent a voicemail to the folks at Buzzcast (Kevin, Alban, and Jordan), got a little wordy, and they called me on it. They had a point. We'll use that clip to talk about editing, and why if it takes you three hours to edit an episode, something's wrong.

Websites Mentioned

• School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com
• PodPage: https://podpage.com
• Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org
• Graphtreon: https://graphtreon.com
• Podcasting in Six Weeks (free course): https://podcastinginsixweeks.com
• Boomer Bunker (John): https://boomerbunker.com
• Bill Burr discusses ads with Tim Ferris Watch on YouTube

Want to Support the show?

Buy Dave a Coffee

Mentioned in this episode:

Podpage Email Alerts

Podpage just launched a feature called Episode Alerts. It automatically emails your subscribers the moment a new episode goes live — no third-party email tool needed. When you publish, Podpage sends the email, links listeners straight to the episode, routes replies to your own inbox, and handles unsubscribes automatically. They also run every email address through validation and monitor bounces/spam complaints to protect your sender reputation. It's not meant to replace a full newsletter platform — no drip campaigns or segmentation — just a simple "hey, new episode's up" notification. It's available for Pro and Elite users, with monthly sending caps of 500 emails on Pro and 5,000 on Elite. For more information see https://www.podpage.com/updates/introducing-episode-alerts/

Podpage

Question of the Month

This months' question is, " How long did it take before you felt like you had "real listeners" — and what made you realize it? If you don't feel it now, what would make it feel "real"? I need your answer by October 23rd. Don't forget to mention your show, your tagline, and your website. Go to schooolofpodcasting.com/question

Question of the Month

Get Some Feedback On Your Show

“Want honest, helpful feedback on your podcast? At the School of Podcasting, we host ‘Listening Parties’ where members share short clips and get constructive, encouraging critiques from fellow podcasters and myself. It’s a safe, supportive way to hear what’s working, fix what’s not, and make your show stronger fast.”

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Stop Researching, Start Doing (This Time I Brought Receipts)

Be honest: how many podcast growth videos have you watched this month, and how many of those ideas have you actually tried? I get it. I have courses I've bought and never opened. But a few weeks ago I challenged you to quit swinging for the grand slam and just make solid contact, and this time I'm back with proof.

My buddy Mark actually did the work, and his downloads jumped 17% in five weeks. I also share the free, 42-second habit that's sending people to my website every week, the five-minute move that got me mentioned on another podcast without even asking, and some surprising data on what happened to shows that added video in Apple Podcasts.

If you've been stuck in research mode, this is your nudge to press play and then go do something.

Mark Did It: 17% Growth in Five Weeks

Over the last several weeks, we've been running growth masterminds inside the School of Podcasting, talking strictly about strategies to grow your show. Plenty of people listened. Mark Lawley from Practical Preppinghttps://practicalprepping.info/actually put them to work. Buzzsprout sends him a weekly download count, and over five weeks his numbers grew about 17%, with a lot of people going back into his back catalog. I'll take that all day.

Find, Click, Act

To grow your reach, remember the order things happen in:

• They have to find you first. That means a good episode title that's a promise of what's inside, not clickbait, and show notes full of helpful words (preferably ones that came out of your mouth, not AI's). People find you through word of mouth, paid promotion, or organic search, and Google loves good words.
• Then they have to click. Once they land on your website, don't make them dig for episodes.
• Then they have to act. Tell a friend, buy your product, visit your sponsor, whatever your "why" is.

My Social Media Experiment

You can't manage what you don't track. I knew some people wouldn't want to pay for a tool (I LOVE Switchy and it's only $39 for a lifetime deal), so I used https://www.Short.io, which gives you 100 trackable links for free and takes about 42 seconds per link.

I expected next to nothing from social. Instead, posting once to three times a week, I was getting around 40 clicks a week. That's roughly 160 a month and about 1,920 a year, from less than five minutes per post across Bluesky, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook.

Clicks aren't downloads, and nobody's told me yet that they found the show on social. But before I tried this, I had zero clicks to my website. If what you're doing now isn't growing your audience, try something. Stop waiting for the perfect opportunity while week after week goes by.

Are You Afraid of Success?

Sometimes it's not fear of failure holding you back. You already launched. It might be fear of success. Here's what I hear, and my answer to each:

• "If I get popular, people will criticize me." People in line behind you at Walmart are already judging you.
• "Who am I to be listened to?" You've done hard things before. You have life experience worth sharing.
• "What if I disappoint people?" You already do, on a regular basis. That's life.
• "What if my hobby turns into a job?" It's your show. You decide.
• "Then I'll have to monetize." No, you won't. If you don't want sponsors, don't have sponsors.
• "What if I try everything and it still doesn't grow?" You've already started to grow. We just want to throw some gasoline on it.

Other things get in the way too: perfectionism that keeps you researching forever, goals that are too vague or too big, strategies that don't fit your values (that's okay, you should have values), and plain old discomfort with being visible. I once wanted to refund a client because every option I offered got "I'm not doing that."

The Five-Minute Strategy: Leave a Voicemail

If you listen to a show similar to yours, leave it a voicemail. Neal Veglio did this on the Pod News Weekly Review, and he always brought value. He made me think or laugh every time. So when I was telling people to find someone who shares their audience, I went and found Neal's show, cherry-picked episodes because his titles were so good (there's another strategy), and mentioned him on my show.

Without me asking, he returned the favor on Podmastery:Podcasting Insights. We haven't even figured out what we're doing together yet, and we've already cross-promoted. Total time: less than five minutes.

It reminded me of the Podcasters' Roundtable with Ray Ortega and Daniel J. Lewis. They're technically my competition, and also some of my favorite people on the planet.

How I Got Into the Hall of Fame

I was asked this week how I got into the Podcasting Hall of Fame. My answer is a joke that isn't a joke: I didn't quit. Others did. You can't make a dent in anyone's life if you quit.

There was a time you didn't know how to button a shirt, tie your shoes, or walk. You learned by doing it, and sometimes doing it wrong. As Zig Ziglar said, you don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great. Figure out who your audience is, go where they are, make friends, and tell them about your show. That's Podcast Growth 101.

Using Podcorn? Remove Your Prefix Now

Podcorn is going away (I believe sometime in early November). If you added their tracking prefix at your media host, every one of your episodes will stop working when they shut down unless you remove it. Do it now so you don't wake up to zero downloads and a pile of "I can't download your show" emails.

Are You Even Close to Being Ready For Ads?

While you're in there: when I worked at Libsyn, I'd see shows with 317 downloads running three or four prefixes for companies that require 10,000. Every prefix is one more piece of technology that can fail and take your files down with it. Find out the minimum you need to qualify, and add the prefix when you get there.

Does Adding Video in Apple Podcasts Help?

Rob Walsh from Captivate always brings the receipts, and he makes stats fun. He looked at shows that opted into Apple's video program in May and compared their August Apple Podcasts numbers to their average for February through April:

• 15% went up
• 32% stayed flat (within plus or minus 15%)
• 53% went down

That's about an 85% chance your Apple numbers stay flat or drop. The theory he heard: listeners saw the show had video and went to watch it on YouTube instead. His advice, and ours from the start: if you want to do video, start on YouTube. If it doesn't add too much stress to your workflow, keep going and maybe add it to Apple. What makes me sad is people who added video, got overwhelmed, and dropped the podcast instead of the video. All of the Podcast Movement presentations, including Rob's, are on the Podcast Movement YouTube channel.

Podcasting in Six Weeks Is Starting Soon

If you want to launch a podcast in 2027, my free Podcasting in Six Weeks course starts in a couple of weeks. We'll work our way around the holidays. Sign up at podcastinginsixweeks.com.

Bonus: The Wendy's Story

Stick around after the outro for a story about a hamburger order that went wrong several times (hamburger, not cheeseburger), me losing my patience, and why I went back to the counter on my way out to apologize. Try saying you're sorry. It makes you feel better, and the other person will probably thank you.

Want to grow your show like Mark? Head to schoolofpodcasting.com, click Join, and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription. You get courses, community, and one-on-one coaching, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. The website runs on PodPage.

Websites Mentioned

• School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com
• Practical Prepping (Mark Lawley): https://practicalprepping.info
• P3 Media Group (Mark's editing services): https://p3mediagroup.net
• Short.io (free click tracker): https://short.io
• Podcasting in Six Weeks (free course): https://podcastinginsixweeks.com
• PodPage: https://podpage.com
• Podcast Movement on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usbj2xiCzTM&list=PLBz7fpQ0lT3I
• Podmastery: Podcasting Insights : https://podmastery.co/

Mentioned in this episode:

Join the School of Podcasting

Mark from Practical Prepping had been podcasting for a while, but after joining the School of Podcasting, his podcast grew at a faster rate. His Facebook group has over 30,000 members! Join the School of Podcasting and get access to: Step-by-step tutorials An amazing podcast community Unlimited One-On-One Coaching Join today worry-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee!

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Podpage Makes Interview Shows Eaier

Podpage works any scheduling tool We have a guest intake form for collecting information. That information can be automatically tied to their episode. We can notify the guest their episode is live We make a page showing all of your guests (to boost credibility) You can now feature guests on your guest page Start your 14 Day Trial by going to podpage.com/preview

Podpage

Question of the Month

This months' question is, " How long did it take before you felt like you had "real listeners" — and what made you realize it? If you don't feel it now, what would make it feel "real"? I need your answer by October 23rd. Don't forget to mention your show, your tagline, and your website. Go to schooolofpodcasting.com/question

Question of the Month

A listener once told me they hoped I'd quit teaching altogether. Another told me, in the nicest way possible, that the curmudgeon was showing up a little too early these days. Only one of those helped my show. This month's Question of the Month was all about feedback: what's the most constructive feedback you've ever received, and what's the most destructive? A few listeners sent in their answers, I share mine, and to prove how much feedback matters, I dig up some embarrassing basement recordings from a much younger Dave Jackson. Let's get into it.

Why Aren't You Getting Feedback?

It honestly boggles my mind how many podcasters never ask for feedback and then wonder why their show isn't growing. Think of it like making someone a sandwich. You can ask, "I've got baloney, smoked turkey, or salami. Which do you want?" and make something they'll actually eat. Or you can hand everyone salami and say "tell your friends," while half of them are quietly thinking, "I hate salami."

Ralph Estep Jr.: "Go Hire a Speaking Coach"

Ralph, the content creator's accountant, says the best feedback he ever got was to hire a speaking coach. People (me included) told him he sounded robotic on his show, nothing like the Ralph you meet on a Zoom call or in person. He found a coach, and it changed the way he does everything. On the other side, he's had people tell him they hope he gets hit by a bus or struck by lightning over his religious views. He's not taking that advice. His point: when you get feedback, consider who it's coming from and whether it makes sense to act on it.

York Campbell: The Name Was the Problem

York's show used to be called Poetic Earthlings, and people kept assuming it was about poetry. It's actually short sci-fi stories: time travel, alien worlds, hyperdimensional creatures, and a few conspiracy theories. A fellow podcaster suggested Welcome to Earth Stories, and once he made the change, the attention and downloads followed. As York put it, sometimes you fall in love with a clever name because of what it means to you, and never stop to ask whether anyone else will understand it.

Timothy Kimo Brien: "You Called My Baby Ugly"

Tim submitted his old show, KDOI Podcasting (Kimo's Den of Iniquity), to the Podcast Rodeo Show. I said it sounded like a radio station, and the full name sounded like... something else entirely. Tim was not a happy camper. Later, sitting at a podcast conference and hearing someone talk about making your show's title clear, he asked himself what his show actually does: it's about creating art. Hello, Create Art Podcast. He's gone from roughly 200–300 downloads a month to between 1,000 and 1,500. He says it's not necessarily because of the name change. I say probably. Either way, it helped him focus on what the show is really about.

My Best Feedback: The Curmudgeon Is Showing

Before Podfest even started, my buddy Steve Stewart asked me to lunch and asked if I was open to notes. I grew up professionally with "constant improvement" on the walls of my first job, so of course I was. He told me the curmudgeon was coming out a little quicker than it used to. That was gold, because it was something I could control and fix. And it came from someone whose opinion I value, someone who'll tell me when something's good and when it isn't. Knowledge is only power when you act on it.

My First Bad Review (and What Good Feedback Looks Like)

In 2010, five years into podcasting, I got my first negative review: basically "not good, not enough thought, it's a commercial for bad services." It knocked me back on my heels, but there was nothing I could fix, because it never said why. (This is why I now say you're not a real podcaster until you get a one-star review.)

Compare that to a 2017 review from a listener who wanted to hear the show but said the mix had a hiss or too much treble. That's great feedback. It's specific, and I could have adjusted it (I was using the Electro-Voice RE320 back then and liked my S's and T's crisp). The only problem is he should have sent it to me directly.

A few things to keep in mind:

• The person might be having a bad day. After decades in customer support, I've seen people apologize later once they calmed down.
• Ask yourself: do they have a point? If so, can you fix it?
• Make it easy for feedback to reach you. A review isn't a direct line.
• Save the nice messages. On days you don't feel like recording, they remind you people are listening.
• Reviews are social proof, but they don't help you get found. Apple has said so.

When Feedback Goes Wrong: The Podcast Rodeo Show

In 2017 I launched the Podcast Rodeo Show, where I'd grab a random podcast and give a real first impression. (Half of YouTube is reaction videos now. I'm taking credit for inventing it. I didn't.)

One episode, a host opened by sharing a string of genuinely awful personal experiences, all within the first few minutes, and never said what the show was about, who it was for, or even that it was an interview. My feedback was all logic: what's in it for the listener? As Erik K. Johnson says, nobody gets on a bus if they don't know where it's going. Don't bury the lead. People don't care about you until you give them a reason to care.

She emailed and attacked me personally, said I was cruel and should never call myself a teacher. It hit me hard enough that I worried the show was hurting my brand, and it's part of why the show eventually ended. Listening back now, I could have been more compassionate. But when I asked my audience whether they wanted a kinder, gentler version, they very loudly said no. So the show evolved (a little less "listen and react," a little more "what do we want them to learn") and got rebranded, first to Podcast Hot Seat (people said that sounded painful) and now to Fix My Podcast.

Scott Orr: How to Take Hard Feedback

Now compare that to Scott Orr, an award-winning journalist and host of Code 3 – The Firefighters Podcast. Before one review, I reached out and said, respectfully, "Scott, you sound like you're drunk." He replied that he didn't have a drinking problem. He has Parkinson's. Instead of getting angry, Scott took the feedback and now opens every episode by saying he won't let Parkinson's stop him.

When Scott later came on the Podcast Review Show, Erik K. Johnson pointed out that addressing it up front is disarming. Listeners stop wondering what's going on and focus on what Scott's saying, not how he's saying it. Honest? Yes. Awkward? Yes. Helpful? Absolutely.

You Can't See Your Own Typos

My favorite example: I once had a typo in the School of Podcasting's own tagline ("plan, launch, grow, and monetize") and didn't catch it. Sometimes you just don't see it.

Young Dave Jackson's Basement Tapes

At School of Podcasting we hold listener parties, where members listen to an episode together and give feedback in real time. Some people cringe at the idea. So here's my confession: in my twenties I was basically Ross from Friends, recording angry '80s rock in my basement. Guitar, bass, keys, drum machine, and, unfortunately, all the vocals. I'd hit play and leave the room while friends listened.

Their feedback? "Who's playing the piano?" Me. "Who's on bass?" Me. Nobody said a word about the music. Just recently, my brother found that CD and told me the songs and singing weren't that bad, but the mix was horrendous. Thirty years later. A little late.

Here's the scary part: you're going to be judged anyway. Wouldn't it make more sense to be judged in a way where you can capture the feedback and make changes before you publish?

The Sidewalk Lesson

A few years ago on the Fourth of July, I fell on an uneven sidewalk while looking at my phone and still have the scars on my knees. That was feedback too, just the painful kind. If someone had warned me about that raised block of cement ahead of time, I'd have saved myself a lot of trouble. That's what good feedback does.

Give me feedback on this show: head to schoolofpodcasting.com/survey and tell me how I can make it better. I'm doing this show for you.

Want help growing your show? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee.

Next week: one thing I did in under five minutes that put me directly in front of my target audience. Follow at schoolofpodcasting.com/follow so you get it the minute it drops.

Contributors & Links

• Ralph Estep Jr., the Content Creator's Accountant: https://ralphestepjr.com
• Becoming Financially Confident (live weekdays, 11:30 a.m. ET): https://www.becomingfinanciallyconfident.com/
• York Campbell, Welcome to Earth Stories: https://welcometoearthstories.com
• Timothy Kimo Brien, Create Art Podcast: https://createartpodcast.com
• Steve Stewart, Podcast Editors Academy: https://stevestewart.me
• Scott Orr, Code 3 – The Firefighters Podcast: https://code3podcast.com
• Erik K. Johnson, Podcast Talent Coach: https://podcasttalentcoach.com

Also Mentioned

• Fix My Podcast (get your show audited): https://fixmypodcast.com
• Podcast Rodeo Show archive: https://podcastrodeoshow.com
• Podcast Review Show: https://www.podcastreviewshow.com
• School of Podcasting survey: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/survey
• School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com
• PodPage: https://podpage.com
• Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com

Mentioned in this episode:

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Started a Podcast But You Feel Stuck?

You're already podcasting, but you feel stuck. I get it. Let's fix that. Join me inside the School of Podcasting and let's get your show growing again. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com, code LISTENER. Thirty-day money-back guarantee.

School of Podcasting

Podpage Makes Interview Shows Eaier

Podpage works any scheduling tool We have a guest intake form for collecting information. That information can be automatically tied to their episode. We can notify the guest their episode is live We make a page showing all of your guests (to boost credibility) You can now feature guests on your guest page Start your 14 Day Trial by going to podpage.com/preview

Podpage

Question of the Month

This months' question is, " How long did it take before you felt like you had "real listeners" — and what made you realize it? If you don't feel it now, what would make it feel "real"? I need your answer by October 23rd. Don't forget to mention your show, your tagline, and your website. Go to schooolofpodcasting.com/question

Question of the Month

Podcast Movement 2026 Reflections + Lessons from Two People Who Run Podcast Events

I just got back from Podcast Movement, and a lot of you have been asking whether it was still worth going now that it's under new ownership, in a new location, with a whole new format. Short answer: I'm definitely going back.

In this episode I walk through what changed, what I loved, what I'd tweak, and what Tom Webster's data says about where podcasting really stands. Then I sit down with two guys who have actually done it, Marc Ronick of Empowered Podcasting and Dr. Brad Miller of Pod Indy, to get the behind-the-scenes story of running a podcast event. If you've ever had that little voice in your head saying "maybe I should start my own meetup or conference," this one is for you.

Podcast Movement 2026: Was It Worth It?

I went down the list, old Podcast Movement versus new.

The hotel and the cost. It used to be at Gaylord hotels, which run $1,000 a night, where the burgers are $30 apiece and you never leave the building. This year was BYOH: bring your own hotel. I stayed two nights at a Holiday Inn Express for $400 a night. Still pricey, but nowhere near the Gaylord. Tickets were also much cheaper because they weren't paying for that hotel arrangement. Point to the new Podcast Movement.

The venue. Picture a small theater (think House of Blues) that had a baby with a cruise ship: three floors, and you can look down at the main stage from the top. The rooms were narrower, so the back row was farther from the stage than I was used to. I also learned I need new glasses, because the giant screen was split in two and I couldn't read the slides. Sessions ran with silent-disco-style headphones: turn the dial to yellow or green and you hear that stage. The strange part is that people talk while someone is presenting a few feet away. It went against everything in my body, but it works, and I could network the whole time. My one suggestion: turn on the house lights during networking breaks. When you have 40 minutes to meet people and can't see who's in the room, it's a problem (unless it's Rob Greenley, who is six foot six inches).

Networking and the parties. PodPage hosted a small meetup, and I walked over to the Buzzsprout meetup too. Both were places where you could actually talk, with no blaring music. I've talked to Dan Franks, who helps plan Podcast Movement, and he says they tell every sponsor that people want to talk, not have their ears bleed. Nice to see it work.

New York City. I'll miss Dallas and Chicago, but it's supposedly staying in New York to make it easier for international attendees. The food was a win, and I never felt unsafe walking around Hell's Kitchen. I ate at Cubbies and at McGee's, which I didn't realize until halfway through is tied to How I Met Your Mother.

A smarter schedule. Monday and Tuesday were geared toward the business and advertising side, and Thursday and Friday were for indie podcasters. That means indie folks can save on the hotel bill.

The talks are going online. They're putting the presentations on the Podcast Movement YouTube channel for free. I'm looking forward to catching the ones I missed, including Lou Mangiello and Rob Walch's talk about video.

What I Learned from Tom Webster

If you only see one talk at a conference, make it Tom Webster's. Here's what stuck with me:

• Podcasting has gone flat. It used to grow at least 3 to 5% a year, occasionally 7%. This past year it barely moved. It's still growing, but by a very small amount.
• Where people listen. In a survey of roughly 5,000 podcast consumers, the top three places were YouTube, Spotify, and Netflix. Not Apple, Pocket Casts, or Overcast.
• Where I disagree. YouTube and Spotify are open to anyone, so I get why people call them podcasts. Netflix isn't open. They have to choose you, and there's no RSS feed. For me, a podcast is an RSS feed with audio or video in it.
• Tom's Walmart analogy. Look at the CD section: a tiny collection of only the biggest hits (Back in Black, Rumors), nothing like a dedicated record store. His suggestion was that we should promote podcast-specific apps. My favorite is Pocket Casts: it plays audio and video, it has bookmarks (that's how I grab the clips I play on the show), and it has a web version.

Podcast Standards Project: PodRoll Is Coming

I sat in on my first Podcast Standards Project meeting. PodRoll, from the Podcasting 2.0 spec, is the modern version of a blogroll: a list of shows you personally recommend, living in your feed. Because feeds are public, anyone can see who's recommended most. That's human recommendations, not an algorithm you try to trick. Ask your media host if they support it (if not move ton one that does). The group is also looking at adding location, so you could find podcasts in your area.

Video: Do You Have To?

Some people insist you have to do video. Others said not only do you not have to, but the shows that added it didn't see much benefit beyond more work, cost, and time. In Apple's video spotlight, the shows featured were already big. I'm looking forward to Rob Walch's full presentation, because that's exactly the kind of "what's working and what's not" you go to a conference to learn.

Small Events vs. Big Ones

Podcast Movement had probably over 1,000 people. Empowered Podcasting had a little over 100 (about 150 this year), and Pod Indy will land somewhere between 50 and 100. Podfest usually draws a couple thousand. My favorite kind of event is single-track: everyone hears the same content, so when you step into the hallway you all have something to talk about.

Interview: Running a Podcast Event with Marc Ronick and Dr. Brad Miller

Why they started. Brad spent 43 years as a pastor and was a Christian concert promoter, so he'd seen the power of live events. After connecting with his local podcasting group in Indianapolis, he launched Pod Indy in 2023 (I keynoted the first one), and the fourth is coming up. Mark had been podcasting as long as I have, and didn't step into a conference until about five years ago. He felt a little out of place at the big ones, so he built a place where he'd feel comfortable.

Small is a feature. Mark went in wanting Empowered Podcasting to become the next Podcast Movement. After the first one (2024, under 100 people) he noticed magic in a smaller, more intimate room, where people were learning from each other outside the sessions. He'd cap it around 200. Brad goes deep on one track, one day.

The biggest surprises:

• You can't do it alone. Mark thought he could run it almost by himself. He carried the financial and emotional load, burned out after year two, and nearly canceled three times. Jason and Rich stepped in to save it, and he made them business partners.
• Ticket sales come late. In Mark's second year, only about 20 tickets sold before the final month. Brad says two-thirds of tickets arrive in the last month. This year's sales were smoother for both, and both say credibility builds over time.
• Bring enough lead time. Brad's first event had only three months, and he bit off more than he could chew. He also lost money using a business center, so he moved it to his church, where he has a studio, and kept it to one day with no hotel block.
• Hotel blocks. If you don't fill the rooms, you pay anyway. Mark's went fine this year because speakers and a good share of attendees needed rooms.

Money, honestly. Brad started by deciding what he could afford to lose (he did lose some the first year, and calls it an investment). Mark admits he wasn't careful with money in the first two years and took on some debt. Both credit their wives, Debbie and Amy, for keeping them grounded and for believing in the vision.

Advice if you're thinking about it:

• Mark: Be okay with however many people show up. Start with a few who believe in your message. If they have a good experience, they come back and become your advocates.
• Brad: Build transformative relationships one on one, then a few together. Have coffee or lunch with someone, or start online, before deciding whether to do a formal event.
• Both: Virtual is great, but nothing replaces being around like-minded people in person.

Choosing speakers. Mark's pet peeve is speaker submissions that are obviously written entirely by AI: "I love using AI, but that's a lazy move, and I don't know that I want a lazy speaker on one of my stages." (My favorite line on this: if you can't take the time to write it, produce it, or record it, why should I take the time to consume it?) Brad recruits speakers through personal relationships instead of an application process. Themes so far: podcasting as a business, AI, and this year taking your podcast (and your life) to the next level with keynote speaker Cliff Ravenscraft.

Pod Indy: November 7, 2026

• When and where: November 7, 2026, in Whiteland, Indiana (suburban Indianapolis), 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.
• Tickets: $37 in person, $27 live stream.
• Discount: use code SOP for $5 off.
• On the lineup: Cliff Ravenscraft (keynote), John Lee Dumas (video), Craig on AI, and me.

My Takeaway

If you try to start with 1,000 people, you'll burn up. Start with what you have, where you are. John Lee Dumas's first meetup reportedly had about five people at an In-N-Out Burger, and he's now a legit millionaire. I even thought I could pull off something in Cleveland or Akron, then thought about all the work and decided: not now. Remember that "no" is often "not now."

If you're thinking about starting a podcast, head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER when you sign up for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription. It comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee. My website is courtesy of PodPage.

Links & Resources Mentioned

• School of Podcasting: https://schoolofpodcasting.com (coupon code: LISTENER)
• PodPage: https://podpage.com
• Empowered Podcasting Conference (Mark Ronick): https://empoweredpodcasting.com
• Ironic Media (Mark Ronick): https://ironicmedia.com
• Pod Indy (Dr. Brad Miller): https://podindy.com (coupon code: SOP)
• Podcast Movement: https://podcastmovement.com
• Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com
• Podcast Standards Project (Pod Roll): https://podcaststandards.org

Mentioned in this episode:

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Build the Website You Want with Podpage

Podpage is flexible. If you want to promote something you can put it in the sidebar, on the front page, or at the bottom of every episode (not to mention the navigation bar, the footer and more). Podpage is designed specifically for podcasts. Quit trying to squeeze your podcast into a website made for a yoga studio. Start your free trial at podpage.com/preview

Podpage

What Does Worry Free Podcasting Look Like?

It means not having to worry about buying the wrong equipment. It means not worrying about wasting your money - you can cancel anytime during your first 30 days and get your money back. It means getting one-on-one coaching with a TEACHER who wants you to learn and grow and not upsell you on 20 more products. You can do this. I help podcasters. It's what I do, and I can't wait to see what we do together.

School of Podcasting

Question of the Month: Constructive and Deconstructive Feedback

This month we are talking feefdback. What is the most constructive or deconstructive (or both) piece of feedback you've received. If you haven't asked for feedback, why not? I need your answer by September 25th (late entries won't be accepted) go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question and be sure to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes.

Question of the Month

A few years ago I accidentally hit a guy on the golf course. I'm not proud of it — although it did bank in almost perfectly off his calf on its way toward the hole. But the swing that caused it taught me something I haven't stopped thinking about: my brother told me to quit trying to kill the ball and just make good contact. Looking at podcasting, it turns into the best explanation I've found for why so many podcasts stop growing.

If you've ever chased a bigger download number, wondered why nobody signs up for the thing you're selling despite having a decent audience, or just felt like you're doing everything and getting nowhere, keep listening — because the fix isn't a bigger swing.

It's Not About a Big Audience. It's About the Right One.

I talk to podcasters constantly who are chasing the same fantasy: flip a switch, get 10,000 downloads overnight. I get it — I've wanted that too. But it doesn't exist unless you've got a massive budget, and even then it doesn't always work.

Quick, honest question: who won American Idol season six? They had a million people watching. Doesn't mean you remember them, and it doesn't mean they connected.

Here's the math that changed how I think about this: if you ran your show as a $30-a-month membership, you'd only need one person willing to pay to break even (assuming you're spending $30/month). But not just any listener does that — it has to be someone connected to you. So the real target was never more downloads. It's finding roughly 500 right-fit people who trust you. Downloads don't join a membership.

Connected people do.

What a Musician Taught Me About Connection

I study podcasters, but I also study musicians, authors, and YouTubers, because we're all in the same business — entertaining people with our art. One of my favorite channels right now is Mary Spender's. She's a musician, not a podcaster, but what she said recently hit me right in the chest:

"We've spent years treating streaming numbers as though they measure fandom, but perhaps they often measure familiarity instead. Millions of streams doesn't necessarily become hundreds of people willing to leave the house on a Wednesday evening. Maybe we've become incredibly good at measuring attention, but forgotten how to measure connection."

Swap "streams" for "downloads" and "tickets" for "memberships," and she's describing exactly what's happening in podcasting. Mary lost £12,000 on her last tour. Instead of giving up, she changed her approach: "Not to chase the biggest room, to chase the right room. Not to impress the most people, to matter to the people who choose to be there." Knowledge is knowing that. Wisdom is acting on it — and she is, booking her own shows again, more intentionally this time (And enjoying it more).

How to Actually Get in Front of the Right People

We've been brainstorming growth ideas in the School of Podcasting community, and the point was never to do all of them — it's to pick one, test it, and measure it. A few examples:

• Guesting on other podcasts that share your audience — less friction, since that audience already knows how to listen to a podcast.
• Podcast swaps, shout-outs, or a 30-second promo trade.
• Speaking engagements or workshops.
• Writing for a publication your audience already reads.
• Your own blog and SEO — no, it's not dead.
• Partnerships that go beyond sponsorship, where you actually help each other promote.
• Word of mouth — which drives roughly 70% of podcast growth, and yet almost nobody deliberately asks for it. Ask your audience, specifically and simply, to share the show with one friend.
• Local, unglamorous options: I used to slip a business card into a book on the page matching my age, in a genre my audience would read. Free. Slow. It worked, a little at a time.

None of these flip a switch. They're singles, not grand slams. You build an audience one person at a time.

Would you spend 5 minutes to get 36 people to your site each week?

How I Found Out What's Actually Working: Click Trackers

Here's the part that surprised me. I started putting a click tracker (I use Switchy) on every link I post — social, LinkedIn, wherever. Takes about 41 seconds per link. What I found: my email list outperformed every social platform by double digits, while everything else stayed in single digits. One email drove 36 clicks in a week — times four weeks, that's potentially 144 people who might actually listen, follow, or tell a friend. And it cost me less than five minutes.

Would you spend 5 minutes a week to get 36 people to your site each week? Again, this is not the 10,000 switch. It's one strategy, and leaves you lots of time to try others.

The click isn't the whole story, though — a click is still just attention, the same thing Mary warned about. What matters is what happens after it: did that traffic turn into an email subscriber, a membership signup, a real connection?

Track that, and you'll quickly find out which platforms are worth your time and which ones you can quietly stop feeding. (If you want a free option instead of a paid one, https://www.short.io does the same basic job.) So the "extra" time you spent using click trackers, you get back by identifying strategies that don't work for you.

Two People Who Grew by Showing Up Consistently, Not Loudly

In the early days of podcasting, Steve Stewart (Podcast Editors Academy) built recognition for years by simply leaving comments on other people's shows — for free. Eventually every show about podcasting seemed to mention him. Neil Veglio did something similar on Pod News Weekly Review, showing up consistently with sharp, specific insight until listeners started recognizing his name. Neither of them flipped a switch. They just kept showing up in the right rooms. I plan on doing some sort of collab with Neil in the future.

Ask Your Audience Who They Actually Are

If you're just starting out and don't have an audience yet, go find where your future audience already hangs out — YouTube comments on a similar channel's most-viewed video, or Amazon reviews for books on your topic (skip the 5-star and 1-star reviews; the 4-star ones that explain what would've made it a 5 are where the real feedback lives).

And if you already have an audience: ask them directly what they want, more than once, and explain why it helps them to tell you. Track the link to your survey the same way you track everything else — if 12 people click but only 6 finish it, that's useful data too.

The Bottom Line

Hope is not a strategy. Neither is waiting for the 10,000-download switch — I've been looking for one since 2007, and it doesn't exist. Growth doesn't come from a bigger swing: more effort, more platforms, more reach. It comes from solid contact with the right people, and you won't know what's solid contact until you measure it.

If you want help building the kind of connection that actually turns into a membership, that's exactly what I do at School of Podcasting. Head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription — backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee.

Links & Resources Mentioned

• School of Podcasting — https://schoolofpodcasting.com (coupon code: LISTENER)
• PodPage — https://podpage.com
• Switchy — Click tracker with lifetime one time payment. (aff)
• Short.io — https://short.io (free click-tracker alternative)
• Steve Stewart / Podcast Editors Academy — https://stevestewart.me
• Ask the Podcast Coach - Weekly live show with free podcast consulting.

Also mentioned by name on the episode, but no specific link was given on air — worth dropping in your own before publishing:

• Big Podcast Playbook (David Hooper)
• Pod Mastery (Neil Veglio)
• Buzzsprout (ad platform)
• Pocket Casts (app)

Mentioned In This Episode

Join the School of Podcasting Community

Profit From Your Podcast Book

Power of Podcasting Network

Dave's YouTube Channel

Dave's Podcasting Newsletter

Buy Dave a Coffee

Put Dave In Your Pocket

Where Will Dave Be?

Question of the Month

Mentioned in this episode:

Question of the Month: Constructive and Deconstructive Feedback

This month we are talking feefdback. What is the most constructive or deconstructive (or both) piece of feedback you've received. If you haven't asked for feedback, why not? I need your answer by September 25th (late entries won't be accepted) go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question and be sure to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes.

Question of the Month

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

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Don't Wait to Level Up Your Show

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School of Podcasting

Give Your Podcast A Home

When you look at our podcasting pieces, your media host is the engine. But your website is the home. It’s where your audience learns who you are, explores your episodes, and decides to subscribe. At Podpage, we build podcast websites that are fast, reliable, and designed to convert visitors into listeners. Every episode is automatically published, SEO-optimized, and structured for growth—so you can focus on creating, not managing your site. If your media host powers your podcast, Podpage gives it a place to live—and a place to grow. Start building your podcast’s home with Podpage by going to www.podpage.com/preview and start your 14 day free trial today.

Podpage

What I Learned (and Relearned) at Empowered Podcasting Conference

I got triggered at a podcasting conference last week, and honestly? I almost jumped out of my chair. Someone in the room said something that stopped me cold, and it's become one of the biggest lessons I'm bringing back to you this week — along with a story about a $230 million quarterback who won't take feedback, why "cheating off the smart kid" with AI is quietly ruining your podcast, and the subscription I found on my own bank statement that I'd been paying for and not even using. This episode is a mashup of my talk at Empowered Podcasting Conference 3 in Charlotte and everything I picked up just from being in the room. Let's get into it.

It's Your Show. Own It.

This is the one that made me want to stand up. Someone in a session said, "Well, I can't ask my guest to keep their answers short." Yes, you can. It's your show. If you're doing interviews, you're the goalie — it's your job to keep anything that doesn't serve your audience out of the episode. And if a guest rambles, that's usually on the host, not the guest. Give your guest a target before you hit record: who you're talking to, and whether you want short, medium, or long answers. A guest who doesn't get a target from the host should ask for one. Own your show. Set the boundaries. Your audience is who you're protecting.

What Actually Makes Content Remarkable

My talk was about what makes a podcast good, and I focused on what makes any content remarkable. I walked through a few movies to prove it:

Saving Private Ryan — that D-Day opening wasn't new information (we all knew WWII was brutal), it was a new way of presenting it. People talked about it because nobody had seen it shown like that.

The Sixth Sense — a tiny budget that beat big blockbusters like The Lone Ranger because of one twist: we don't find out Bruce Willis's character is dead until the end. People walked out of the theater and called a friend to say "you have to see this." That's the goal — content remarkable enough that it spreads on word of mouth alone.

Gone with the Wind — a 1939 movie with an actual intermission, and people still talk about the burning of Atlanta (a real fire on the studio backlot, no CGI) and that last line — "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" — which had audiences clutching their pearls. Again, something people had not seen before.

Star Wars — I saw it eleven times as a kid, and even when half the theater had already seen it multiple times, everybody still cheered when the Death Star blew up. That's not just about the special effects. That's about how it made people feel.

A podcast episode is content plus delivery — and delivery is you: your attitude, your confidence, your life skills. My rule of thumb for what makes a good episode: laugh, cry, think, groan, educate, or entertain. Save them time or save them money. Try to hit more than one of those in every episode.

The Most Underrated Skill in Podcasting: Listening

Everyone assumes the top skill is a great voice or being funny. It's not. It's your ability to listen — to your audience, and to feedback.

Case in point: The Cleveland Brown's quarterback, the one we paid $230 million despite a stack of off-field allegations. He's not good at his job. When fans booed him, his response was basically "you guys don't like me" — not "I need to get better," not "tell me more." He made it personal instead of taking it as information. I hear the same thing constantly from podcasters. I'll offer to help someone grow their show, ask which episode they want me to listen to, and they'll say "oh, it's not the content." If you're not willing to actually hear feedback, don't be surprised when your show doesn't grow.

The AI Shortcut That's Quietly Killing Your Voice

This is the one I need you to sit with. There's a real strategy going around called the outlier strategy: if you and a competitor share an audience, and one of their episodes way outperforms their normal numbers, you make your own version of that topic. Legitimate strategy.

Here's where it goes sideways — people are grabbing the transcript of that outlier video, feeding it to AI, and saying "rewrite this in my voice." And the whole reason they're doing a podcast in the first place is to be seen as a thought leader — using someone else's thoughts.

It might work about 80% of the time (I'm making that number up), and that missing 20% is the part that's actually, uniquely you. Mark Maron said it best: "You're not thinking your own thoughts. You're a hack with an excuse for why you're failing."

I'm not anti-AI — I use it to organize my own brain dumps into an outline. But when you let it write the content, you get exactly what everyone else already sounds like.

Led Zeppelin became Kingdom Come became Greta Van Fleet. Cinderella became Girl School. The copy is never as good as the original, and eventually the audience notices.

Which brings me to a phrase I have to credit to YouTuber Aprillynne Alter, because she said it better than I could: protect your intuition. When you let AI do all your thinking, you never actually process the information — and you lose your gut instinct for what your audience needs. That's exactly why I watched every single Dolly Parton video myself for last week's episode instead of asking AI to summarize them. I wanted that information in my head, not just in the output.

Cheating off the smart kid might get you the grade. It won't get you the understanding.

Own Your Audience — Don't Rent It From a Platform

I had a great conversation with email marketing expert Paul Gowder about this. I moved my main marketing list from Kit (formerly ConvertKit) over to Substack, and while my subscriber count is actually growing there, I can see in my stats that it's not driving nearly as much traffic to my website. Paul's question stopped me: "

What do platforms do once they get popular enough? They change the rules."

TikTok, Facebook, YouTube — every one of them eventually limits your reach to your own audience unless you pay up.

Email doesn't have an algorithm. Those are people who raised their hand and said "I want more." I'd rather have a 40% open rate on my newsletter than a meaningless "view" on YouTube.

And I export my list every single month just in case, because platforms can turn on you fast — there was a parenting podcast that got pulled off YouTube with zero warning, appealed to an AI system, got denied by that same AI, and only got reinstated after Podnews' James Cridland made it a public story. You don't want your show's survival to depend on someone shaming a platform into doing the right thing.

Audit Your Subscriptions — You're Probably Bleeding Money

My buddy Ralph Estep Jr. — "the content creator's accountant" — gave the keynote, and his advice was simple: go look at your podcast's checkbook.

So I did. In five minutes I found I'd been paying $57 a month for an SEO mastermind I hadn't attended in ages, plus $10 a month for an email address I don't even use anymore. Close to $100 a month, gone, just from things I forgot to cancel. This is exactly why you want a separate bank account for your podcast — every charge in there is tied to something you're using for the show, and it makes the leaks obvious. If you need a separate account I use both Sofi and Acorns.

Don't Copy the Gear. Be You.

One more story from my talk. We all think if we buy the same mic or use the same host as someone successful, we'll get their results. It's not the gear. The band Extreme had guitarist Nuno Bettencourt, who idolized Eddie Van Halen his whole career — and finally got to play Eddie's actual rig, in front of Eddie. He was sure he'd finally sound like his hero. Instead, he said it was "so horrible," because he just sounded like himself. Same thing happened in early podcasting — we all bought the same expensive mic because we wanted to sound like a famous podcaster. Lean into being you. You're already very good at it.

Bonus: Sometimes "Remarkable" Means Remarkably Bad

A tiny, ultra-low-budget Chinese film (reportedly made for around $200 by a mother and son on an iPhone) got pulled from theaters and mocked online as one of the worst movies ever. The memes were brutal. And because everyone was talking about it, curiosity took over — it ended up making an estimated $9.3 million. Remarkable works both ways.

Quick Update on Episode 1049

In episode 1049, I told you Spotify and YouTube signed onto a shared industry definition of what counts as a "view" or a "play." Well, weeks later, Spotify rolled out a button that lets listeners skip ads entirely, and YouTube quietly changed what counts as a view again — now just moving your mouse over a thumbnail can register as one.

Mark your calendar: in a month or two, expect YouTube to brag about some absurd new view count and hope everyone forgot they moved the goalposts. These are the partners we're all supposed to shake hands and build agreements with.

Thanks to Empowered Podcasting Conference

Big thanks to Mark Ronick, Rich, and Jason for putting on another great Empowered Podcasting Conference, and to everyone I got to hang out with in Charlotte.

Head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription — backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. You'll get access to the courses, the community, and coaching. And if you want to catch every episode, follow the show at schoolofpodcasting.com/follow.

Research Links

• Empowered Podcasting Conference
• SOFI: Join Checking and Savings | You’ve been invited!
• Acorns Banking - Earn Interest, Teach Your Children about Finances
• Why No One Makes "Original" Videos Anymore
• Newsletters Part 2: How to Start a Newsletter Without Losing You…
• Want More Downloads? Ditch Social Media for Newsletters!
• Aprilynne Alter - YouTube
• A $200 Chinese Movie Just Became the Most Profitable Film in History
• Gone with the Wind Rant - Building a Better Dave

Mentioned in this episode:

Question of the Month: Constructive and Deconstructive Feedback

This month we are talking feefdback. What is the most constructive or deconstructive (or both) piece of feedback you've received. If you haven't asked for feedback, why not? I need your answer by September 25th (late entries won't be accepted) go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question and be sure to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes.

Question of the Month

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Podpage Email Alerts

Podpage just launched a feature called Episode Alerts. It automatically emails your subscribers the moment a new episode goes live — no third-party email tool needed. When you publish, Podpage sends the email, links listeners straight to the episode, routes replies to your own inbox, and handles unsubscribes automatically. They also run every email address through validation and monitor bounces/spam complaints to protect your sender reputation. It's not meant to replace a full newsletter platform — no drip campaigns or segmentation — just a simple "hey, new episode's up" notification. It's available for Pro and Elite users, with monthly sending caps of 500 emails on Pro and 5,000 on Elite. For more information see https://www.podpage.com/updates/introducing-episode-alerts/

Podpage

Get Some Feedback On Your Show

“Want honest, helpful feedback on your podcast? At the School of Podcasting, we host ‘Listening Parties’ where members share short clips and get constructive, encouraging critiques from fellow podcasters and myself. It’s a safe, supportive way to hear what’s working, fix what’s not, and make your show stronger fast.”

School of Podcasting

Dolly Parton died on August 25, 2026, at age 80. While most tributes are focused on the music, this episode looks at something else entirely: Dolly Parton the businesswoman and entertainer. She sang at the Grand Ole Opry at 13 and was still building her empire seven decades later, which is rare in an industry where most acts have a five-to-ten-year run. As we like to say around here, success leaves clues, and Dolly left a lot of them. Below are 12 lessons pulled from her career, each one translated into something a podcaster can actually use.

Take Advantage of Opportunities When They Show Up

In the late 1960s, a teenage Dolly landed a spot on the syndicated Porter Wagoner Show, earning $60,000 a year — by her own account, more money than she'd ever seen. She could have stayed comfortable as Porter's sidekick. Instead, she used the platform to build her name, and when she'd gotten what she needed from it, she left in 1974 to build something that was actually hers. Wagoner threatened to have her dropped from her label and later sued her; she ended up paying roughly $1 million to settle it, and the relationship took years to repair before the two eventually reconciled (American Songwriter, Cheat Sheet).

Why it matters for your podcast: your show builds relationships, those relationships create opportunities, and taking advantage of those opportunities (a guest slot, a speaking gig, a collaboration) is what grows your audience — which creates more relationships. It's a loop, and it only works if you actually act when the opportunity shows up.

Build a Podcast Brand People Instantly Recognize

You knew Dolly when you saw her. Her wig, the rhinestones, the exaggerated glamour, her boobs, wasn't an accident. She said she based it on the town's "tramp."

Dolly's response: I wanted to look like her. I thought she was beautiful. Her best line, "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap" says it all. When Barbara Walters pushed her on it in a 1970s interview, essentially implying she looked like a hillbilly, Dolly shot back that she might "kick her in the shin" and laughed the whole way through it.

Why it matters for your podcast: a distinctive brand gets you noticed once. Celebrity, a striking name, a bold visual that earns the first click. What earns the return listener is the talent and substance behind it. Dolly had both, and so should your show.

Own Your Audience — Don't Rent It to a Platform

Dolly wrote "I Will Always Love You" in 1973 as a farewell to Porter Wagoner. When Elvis wanted to record it in 1974, his manager Colonel Tom Parker demanded the publishing rights as a condition for Elvis to record it. This was a standard (crappy) practice for an Elvis cut at the time.

Dolly said no, even though it was Elvis. Nearly two decades later, Whitney Houston's version spent 14 weeks at No. 1 and sold an estimated 20 million copies. Because Dolly still owned 100% of the publishing, that single song brought her roughly $10 million in royalties in the 1990s alone, and an estimated $20 million total from the Houston version according to Forbes (American Songwriter).

Why it matters for your podcast: As fellow podcaster Steve Stewartputs it, "Don't sell your audience to your sponsor, sell your sponsor on the value of your audience." The same logic applies to platforms: own your website, your domain, and your email list so no single network or app can take your audience away from you. It happens — YouTube pulled a top parenting podcast off the platform entirely (before reinstating it after public pressure). Dolly held onto her publishing because she knew the long game mattered more than a quick win. Hold onto your feed the same way. This is why an RSS feed is important. You can't be cancelled, and you can easily move to a new host if needed.

Don't Take Yourself Too Seriously

Long before a critic could land a joke, Dolly had already made it herself. On plastic surgery: "If I see something sagging, bagging, or dragging, I'm going to have it nipped, tucked, or sucked." Even the announcement of her passing carried her sense of humor forward, joking that she was finally ready to trade the rhinestones for something more comfortable.

Why it matters for your podcast: self-deprecating humor makes an audience like you more. If you can laugh at yourself — a mistake, dated gear, a rough first episode — listeners relax and warm up to you faster. Have fun with your show. Otherwise, you'll burn out on it.

Be Consistent — It Builds Trust

Dolly reportedly slept in her makeup in case she had to get up in the middle of the night for an emergency, because she never wanted to be seen without it. More importantly, she was always, unmistakably Dolly be it on stage or off, in an interview or in a duet, across 70 years of performing. People who met her said what you saw on stage is exactly what you got in person.

Why it matters for your podcast: consistency isn't just about your publishing schedule (though that matters too) — it's about your output staying recognizably you. A listener who hasn't tuned in for six months should know exactly what they're getting the moment they hit play.

Know Your Why

Dollywood already existed under a couple of generic names before Dolly bought into it in 1986. She didn't just license her name and collect a check — she built it to bring jobs to her hometown region in Tennessee, rooting the business in something true about her instead of something generic and scalable. Today it generates an estimated $180–580 million a year, with her stake alone valued around $165 million.

Why it matters for your podcast: plenty of celebrities slap their name on a generic product — a tequila brand, a theme park, a template — and it doesn't work because the "why" isn't real. If you're just copying someone else's show format and putting your name on it, it's probably not going to land. Know why you're actually doing this.

Secondly if you put your name behind it, it better be a positive reflection of you (think about this when it comes to sponsors). If you say a product is great, and your audience buys it and it's not, they won't buy anything else from you as your integrity is shot.

Experiment With New Formats Without Losing Your Identity

Dolly moved from country into pop in the '70s (9 to 5 and more), then made the bluegrass albums she couldn't make earlier in her career because they were "too niche" — as she put it, "I had to get rich so I could come back and sound poor" (BrainyQuote). She went into TV, movies, and near the end of her life a Broadway musical. It was based on her own story, for which she wrote much of the score (so you could say she liked to stay busy).

She initially tried to withdraw her name from Rock and Roll Hall of Fame consideration, saying she hadn't "earned that right," then was inducted anyway and leaned all the way in, dueting with Judas Priest's Rob Halford at the ceremony (Rolling Stone, Fox News). She later recorded "Please Please Please" with Sabrina Carpenter — a genre-crossing pairing where each artist's fans discovered the other (Rolling Stone).

Why it matters for your podcast: every new genre, format, or collaboration was still unmistakably Dolly. That's the model — try new things, but stay recognizably yourself. And notice the audience-sharing angle: pairing with an artist (or podcaster) who has an adjacent audience introduces you to people who'd never have found you otherwise. That's exactly what cross-promotion with a show in your niche can do for you.

Outsource What You're Not Good At

When Dolly wrote and starred in the 1986 TV movie A Smoky Mountain Christmas, she knew the script and the performance were her strengths — but directing wasn't, so she brought in Henry Winkler (yes, the Fonz) to direct (Yahoo News).

Why it matters for your podcast: do the parts of your show you're genuinely good at and enjoy, and hand off the rest — editing, show notes, technical setup — to someone who does it better than you.

Give Back to Build Loyalty

Despite her wealth, Dolly gave away enormous sums, saying she prayed for "enough to share and enough to spare." In 1995 she launched the Imagination Library in honor of her father, who couldn't read/ She mailing a free book every month to enrolled children from birth to age five. It grew from her home county to all of Tennessee, then the whole country, then the world: over 200 million books distributed, and she left money behind specifically so the program continues after her death (Imagination Library).

Why it matters for your podcast: giving back to your community isn't separate from growing your business — it's part of how the business grows. It's part of why I do "Ask the Podcast Coach" (a free live Q&A show) every Saturday morning: it's a way to give back to podcasters who aren't ready for one-on-one coaching yet, and it builds the kind of goodwill that turns casual listeners into a community.

Avoid Hot-Button Topics — Unless That's Literally Your Show

Dolly was offered the Presidential Medal of Freedom multiple times by two different presidents from two different parties and turned it down each time, in part because she refused to be pulled into politics.

Asked directly by a reporter to weigh in on a president's comments, she responded: "I'm not addressing that. I do not get into that. Of course, I have my opinion about everybody and everything, but I learned a long time ago: keep your damn mouth shut if you want to stay in show business. I'm not in politics. I'm an entertainer."

Johnny Carson famously took the same stance during his run. She applied the same discipline to religion — when faith-based critics came after her, she turned their own scripture back on them, pointing out that judgment isn't their job.

Why it matters for your podcast: unless your show is specifically built around politics or religion (in which case, dig in and be ready to defend your positions), steering clear of hot-button topics protects the broad audience you've worked to build. If you do wade into something controversial, be prepared to answer for it — and using someone's own words against their argument, the way Dolly did, is about as effective a response as there is.

Always Ask for the Sale

Dollywood, like any well-run theme park, is designed so you exit through the gift shop — there's no way around it. Dolly also took the "medieval dinner theater with jousting knights" concept and reworked it for her own audience with a north-versus-south twist, tailored specifically to who she knew would be sitting in the seats. This gave people multiple opportunities to purchase items.

Why it matters for your podcast: if you want your audience to join your email list, support you, or buy something, you have to put that option in front of them repeatedly and clearly. Podcasting doesn't have a forced gift shop; so the "ask" has to be intentional, and it helps to tailor it the way Dolly tailored her restaurant concept — built around who your specific audience actually is.

Learn From Flops and Keep Moving

Not everything Dolly touched turned to gold. Her 1984 movie Rhinestone, where she was tasked with turning Sylvester Stallone into a singer, was a well-documented flop (SlashFilm). She didn't treat it as a career-ending disaster — she learned from it and moved forward.

Why it matters for your podcast: not every episode, format, or experiment is going to land. That's not a signal to quit — it's data. Learn from what didn't work and keep going.

But Wait There is More!

I just heard that she pays for employees of Dollywood to go to college. You get this support the minute you clock in on day one.

The One Thing I Noticed and Made Her Stand Out

As I watched all the videos (AI did the citations for me, but I write my own show notes), it finally came to me on why she stood out so much. It wasn't the wigs, the boobs, the outfits.

Yes, she was an amazing singer, and songwriter, and businesswoman. But she is something you don't see to much these days: she was an optimist.

Rest in Peace Dolly. See you later.

Mentioned in this episode:

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Question of the Month: Constructive and Deconstructive Feedback

This month we are talking feefdback. What is the most constructive or deconstructive (or both) piece of feedback you've received. If you haven't asked for feedback, why not? I need your answer by September 25th (late entries won't be accepted) go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question and be sure to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes.

Question of the Month

Boost Four Followers by Eliminating Analysis Paralysis with Podpage

When people have too many options, they can fall into analysis paralysis and take no action. Podpage allows you to add ALL the apps to your website, and create ONE page with all of them, and then only display the most popular apps on your front page. Start your 14-day free trial at www.podpage.com

Podpage

Get Some Feedback On Your Show

“Want honest, helpful feedback on your podcast? At the School of Podcasting, we host ‘Listening Parties’ where members share short clips and get constructive, encouraging critiques from fellow podcasters and myself. It’s a safe, supportive way to hear what’s working, fix what’s not, and make your show stronger fast.”

School of Podcasting

What is Your Rock Bottom Podcast Downloads Number?

Everybody talks about growing their audience. Nobody talks about the number where they'd quietly give up.

This month's Question of the Month flips the growth conversation on its head: what's the smallest number of downloads that would keep you making your show — and if you dropped below it, would you quit, or try to fix it? The answers from School of Podcasting listeners are surprisingly close... and my answer might not be a number at all.

Also in this episode: a guest-pitch so bad it somehow involves a U-Haul dealership, and a heads-up on a booking-platform trick you'll want to know before you pitch yourself as a guest anywhere.

In this episode

• This month's Question of the Month: what's your download floor?
• Steve Stewart says he'd think about quitting under 25 downloads an episode — but here's why he probably wouldn't
• Frank Bravo is already running on "10s" of downloads, and explains why that number doesn't bother him
• Ralph Estep Jr. went from 20 downloads to over 1,000 — but what actually keeps him going isn't the number
• Dave's answer: which of his 30+ podcasts he let die, which ones he kept, and why it's rarely about the download count
• The 6-episode survey test — how to know if it's time to change your show or just accept where it's at
• Scott Johnson (What Was That Like) shares the worst guest pitch he's ever received
• A warning about how some guests are gaming booking platforms like PodMatch — and how to vet who you let on your show

Links mentioned

• School of Podcasting — use code LISTENER for a discount on monthly, quarterly, or yearly plans
• PodPage — this episode's sponsor
• Steve Stewart — Podcast Editor Academy / Podcast Editors Mastermind
• Frank Bravo — Your Tech Makeover
• Ralph Estep Jr. — https://ralphestepjr.com / new show: Becoming Financially Confident (launching Aug 31)
• Scott Johnson — What Was That Like
• York - Welcome to Earth Stories
• PodMatch
• PodcastGuest.com
• Pitch a Podcast
• Building a Better Dave
• Marketing Musician
• Weekly Web Tools
• New To Cooking

This content may contain affiliate links, meaning I earn a small commission if you purchase through these links at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products or services I trust and believe will provide value to you. Thank you for your support!

Mentioned in this episode:

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Question of the Month: Constructive and Deconstructive Feedback

This month we are talking feefdback. What is the most constructive or deconstructive (or both) piece of feedback you've received. If you haven't asked for feedback, why not? I need your answer by September 25th (late entries won't be accepted) go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question and be sure to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes.

Question of the Month

Podpage Email Alerts

Podpage just launched a feature called Episode Alerts. It automatically emails your subscribers the moment a new episode goes live — no third-party email tool needed. When you publish, Podpage sends the email, links listeners straight to the episode, routes replies to your own inbox, and handles unsubscribes automatically. They also run every email address through validation and monitor bounces/spam complaints to protect your sender reputation. It's not meant to replace a full newsletter platform — no drip campaigns or segmentation — just a simple "hey, new episode's up" notification. It's available for Pro and Elite users, with monthly sending caps of 500 emails on Pro and 5,000 on Elite. For more information see https://www.podpage.com/updates/introducing-episode-alerts/

Podpage

Join the #1 Podcast Education Site - The School of Podcasting

Adam Curry is the co-founder of Podcasting (and the co-host of the No Agenda Show). When asked about learning how to podcast Adam said, "The place to go with the guy who has taught more people how to podcast than anybody I know - Dave Jackson, School of Podcasting.com"

School of Podcasting

You Down With YPP?

Episode Description:

I break down YouTube’s latest changes to its Partner Program, including doubled watch-hour requirements and higher Shorts monetization thresholds ahead of the February 2027 deadline. I also bring in YouTube expert Adam Ivey’s take on why the real story isn’t necessarily the new criteria, and I share my own channel’s numbers so you can set realistic expectations for your own YouTube journey.

Then the AI kids stop by for story time as I take a look at Spotify’s decade-long history of making big podcasting promises—and quietly failing to deliver on them. From a scrapped hosting partnership to a Creator Fund that never paid a cent, there’s plenty to unpack.

Plus, Ray Ortega drops by with the shortest—and most accurate—definition of “podcast” you’ll ever hear.

YouTube Partner Program (YPP) changes, effective February 1, 2027

• Watch-hour requirement doubles: 4,000 to 8,000 hours in the past year (new creators only; existing YPP members are grandfathered in)
• Shorts monetization threshold doubles: 10 million to 20 million qualified views in 90 days to get in, then a rolling 10 million views every 90 days to maintain earnings
• Full monetization tier: 1,000 subscribers, $100 payment threshold
• Lower tier (500 subscribers): unlocks YouTube Shopping (affiliate) and channel memberships, requires 3,000 watch hours or 3 million Shorts views

The real story behind the changes

• Adam Ivy's stat: 67% of YouTube creators make less than $10,000/year
• YouTube's stated pivot: broadening revenue beyond ads, with bonuses for YouTube Shopping, brand-deal incentives, and trend-based earning boosts
• YouTube says it expects to pay creators more in 2027 than 2026: money is shifting, not shrinking
• Steve Stewart (Podcast Editor Academy): "Don't just sell your audience to sponsors, sell sponsors on how great your audience is"

Is YouTube worth it? The data

• Sounds Profitable's Podcast Atlas (slide 23): Clips lead viewers to watch a specific episode (30% often/always, 81% at least sometimes) and to become regular listeners (33% often/always, 84% at least sometimes)
• Dave's real channel numbers: 3,523 subscribers, ~$2.49 per 1,000 views, one video with 115 views earned 25 cents
• Bottom line: YouTube ad revenue is icing, not cake. Don't budget groceries on it

Spotify: a bedtime story for the AI kids

• May 2015: Spotify launches podcasts through a small group of hosting "partners" (Libsyn, Blubrry), framed as a growth opportunity, not monetization
• Spotify initially insists on hosting the media files itself rather than letting partners host. Partners build custom engineering to comply, then Spotify reverses course
• 2019: Spotify buys Anchor for $150 million, turning former hosting partners into competitors overnight, with free hosting
• Spotify quietly submits shows to Apple Podcasts under its own account, hiding stats from creators and sparking creator frustration (often aimed at consultants, not Spotify)
• 2020: Megaphone acquired for $235 million. 2021: Whooshkaa acquired and folded into Megaphone, then shut down
• 2021: Betty Labs acquired, becomes Greenroom (Spotify's Clubhouse competitor)
• 2021: "New Era of Podcast Monetization": paid subscriptions, Open Access Platform, Spotify Audience Network announced
• Mid-2021: Greenroom launches with a Creator Fund promised for live audio creators. Payment mechanics never disclosed
• 2021: Music + Talk announced ("play music in your podcast"), restricted to the Spotify app, paying subscribers only, after listening to the full episode
• September 2021: Q&A and Polls launch, pitched as "the future of podcasting is interactive"
• January 2022: In-house production studio "Studio Four" shut down with layoffs
• April 2022: Greenroom rebrands to Spotify Live; Creator Fund confirmed to have never launched, quietly shelved
• March 2023: Anchor rebranded to Spotify for Podcasters
• April 2023: Spotify Live shut down entirely, two years after the original Greenroom launch
• February 2024: Music + Talk and Anchor's recording tools killed; users redirected to Riverside
• July 2024: Q&A and Polls shut down, replaced with Comments
• Spotify's "walled garden" habits: video and transcripts only available on Spotify, resistance to RSS since it sends listeners off-platform
• 2026: Skip Ahead ad-skipping button testing begins, available only to Premium subscribers, while advertisers still pay for the ad
• Audiobooks added, bundled with music, resulting in lower royalty payments to musicians

What it actually takes to make money on Spotify

• 1,000 Spotify audience members (last 30 days)
• 2,000 Spotify hours consumed (last 30 days)
• At least 3 published episodes
• Free alternatives exist too: Buzzsprout (90 days free), RSS.com, Red Circle

Also in this episode:

• Ray Ortega's shortest definition of a podcast: "An RSS feed with audio or video content"
• Dave will be at the Empowered Podcasting Conference. Say hello if you see him

Links:

Podnews (the definitive investigative piece): https://podnews.net/update/greenroom-creator-fund-mirage

Hollywood Reporter (original confirmation): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/spotify-greenroom-creator-fund-live-audio-1235132234/

TechCrunch (Spotify's official statement): https://techcrunch.com/?p=2302547

Tubefilter (stock price angle): https://www.tubefilter.com/2022/04/19/meta-live-audio-rooms-spotify-green-ro

Spotify's own support doc: https://support.spotify.com/al/creators/article/understanding-skip-ahead-button/

Podnews (the deepest industry-side reporting): https://podnews.net/article/spotify-threat-ad-skipping

Hollywood Reporter (advertiser reaction): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/spotify-new-ad-skipping-feature-1236670480/

Forbes (scale/downloads context): https://www.forbes.com/sites/gabrielalinzainescu/2026/08/10/spotify-tests-ad-skip-button-that-could-upend-podcast-advertising/

Variety (original 2024 reclassification): https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/spotify-music-audiobook-bundle-lower-royalty-for-songwriters-1235974942/

Music Tech (MLC lawsuit filed): https://musictech.com/news/industry/spotify-royalties-lawsuit-audiobook-bundling/

Music Business Worldwide ($3.1bn NMPA projection): https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/nmpa-says-spotify-bundling-move-could-cost-music-publishers-3-1bn-through-2032/

Music Business Worldwide (lawsuit dismissed): https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-wins-audiobook-bundling-lawsuit-as-court-dismisses-legal-action-brought-by-the-mlc/

Variety (ruling coverage w/ judge's quote): https://variety.com/2025/music/news/spotify-wins-lawsuit-bundling-royalties-1236289823/

Time (FTC complaint, $150M NMPA estimate): https://time.com/6988114/spotify-songwriters-ftc-complaint-royalties-audiobooks-bundle/

Digital Music News: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2024/02/09/spotify-is-shutting-down-music-talk-music

Podbean blog, on the March 2023 rebrand: https://blog.podbean.com/anchor-vs-podbean-podcast-hosting-alternative/

TechCrunch, shutdown of Spotify Live: https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/03/spotify-is-shutting-down-its-live-audio-app-spotify-live/

Hollywood Reporter, Creator Fund never launched: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/spotify-greenroom-creator-fund-live-audio-1235132234/

Variety: https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/spotify-acquires-whooshkaa-podcast-1235135217

EIN Presswire (official press release text): https://www.einpresswire.com/article/558559979/spotify-announces-acquisition-of-podcast-technology-platform-whooshkaa

Spotify Newsroom, original launch: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2021-09-30/podcasts-get-interactive-with-new-qa-and-polls-features/

MIDiA Research, on the Comments replacement: https://www.midiaresearch.com/blog/why-comments-on-spotify-podcasts-are-more-about-youtube-than-community

Spotify Newsroom, "New Era of Podcast Monetization": https://newsroom.spotify.com/2021-04-27/spotify-ushers-in-new-era-of-podcast-monetization-with-new-tools-for-all-creators/

PhoneArena, Substack/Open Access Platform coverage: https://www.phonearena.com/news/spotify-substack-partnership_id157238

Podnews, "Breaking: Spotify buys Gimlet... and Anchor": https://podnews.net/update/spotify-gimlet-anchor

Nieman Lab, "Anchor too?": https://www.niemanlab.org/2019/02/anchor-too-with-a-second-big-acquisition-spotify-shows-its-serious-about-podcasts-as-both-producer-and-platform/

Music Business Worldwide, exact deal figures ($154M Anchor): https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-has-acquired-three-podcast-companies-this-year-total-cost-404m/

Forbes, Hot Pod/Ashley Carman quote on Spotify vs. YouTube: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johanmoreno/2022/02/18/spotify-acquired-two-major-podcast-technology-companies-youtube-should-be-concerned/

TechRadar (skips even Spotify's own promo messaging): https://www.techradar.com/audio/spotify/spotify-quietly-added-a-button-to-skip-ads-in-podcasts-except-for-its-own-promotional-content-and-its-sparked-widespread-concern-for-the-future-of-podcasting

Research Links

• Introducing the next era of monetization on Spotify
• Changes to the YouTube Partner Program - YouTube Blog
• What is a Podcast? - Ray Ortega
• The Podcast Atlas: A Map of the Creator Ecosystem - Sounds Profitable

Mentioned in this episode:

What Does Worry Free Podcasting Look Like?

It means not having to worry about buying the wrong equipment. It means not worrying about wasting your money - you can cancel anytime during your first 30 days and get your money back. It means getting one-on-one coaching with a TEACHER who wants you to learn and grow and not upsell you on 20 more products. You can do this. I help podcasters. It's what I do, and I can't wait to see what we do together.

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Podpage Email Alerts

Podpage just launched a feature called Episode Alerts. It automatically emails your subscribers the moment a new episode goes live — no third-party email tool needed. When you publish, Podpage sends the email, links listeners straight to the episode, routes replies to your own inbox, and handles unsubscribes automatically. They also run every email address through validation and monitor bounces/spam complaints to protect your sender reputation. It's not meant to replace a full newsletter platform — no drip campaigns or segmentation — just a simple "hey, new episode's up" notification. It's available for Pro and Elite users, with monthly sending caps of 500 emails on Pro and 5,000 on Elite. For more information see https://www.podpage.com/updates/introducing-episode-alerts/

Podpage

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

How Do You Hit 4000 Episodes Without Losing Your Mind?

Today I'm talking with Glenn Hebert and Jamie Jennings from Horses in the Morning, the flagship show of the Horse Radio Network. They just crossed 4000 episodes, and since they're doing this daily, I had a ton of questions for them. Mainly: how do you keep your sanity?

Glenn has been on this show more times than any other guest, and I'll drop links to a few of those past conversations below. We also talk about how "Glenn the Geek" became a verb around here. I cut in a few times throughout the episode to riff on some of what we discussed, so stick around for that too.

Key Takeaways

• Segments (not just guests) are what let a daily or frequent show survive without constantly reinventing the wheel.
• A real community needs a place to talk to each other, not just a place to listen to you.
• Feedback from your most invested listeners (not just anyone) should shape what you keep and what you cut.
• You're making the show for the 80% who like it, not the 20% who don't.
• If you're trying to make money at this, budget 10-12 hours of work for every hour that airs.

How Glenn and Jamie Keep Finding Something to Talk About

Jamie's husband asked her, before episode one, what she was even going to talk about after two weeks of a horse podcast. Sixteen years and 4000 episodes later, that question still makes her laugh. Glenn books guests only a week or two out, and most of the show's four or five segments per episode get planned the morning of. Being daily is actually their advantage: they can be timely in a way most podcasts can't.

Glenn admitted he basically is the show-prep service. Google Alerts and AI help him find stories faster than they used to, but the instinct for what's worth talking about still comes down to two to three hours of prep every single morning.

Segments Give You Somewhere to Put Your Energy

Jamie is the storyteller. Glenn plays the guy reacting to it. He described their pre-show routine: Jamie says she's got a two-to-five-minute story, and he already knows it's going to stretch to twenty minutes and he'll happily let it. That contrast, he said, is what makes the show work.

I've got segments on this show too (if you've got a favorite segment idea, feel free to send it in). One of mine is built entirely out of "this happened because I have a podcast." I used to do a "last five in five" segment where I'd share the last five things I listened to in under five minutes. Segments are useful because they don't all have to show up in every episode. When I don't have a big topic, I create a "podcast stew," a handful of small segments squeezed together. Takes the pressure off having to fill a big block of time. An episode just needs to be as long as it needs to be, and not a minute more.

Building a Community That Actually Talks to Each Other

Glenn says their community basically built itself once Patreon entered the picture around nine or ten years ago. One of their own listeners asked if she could start a private Facebook group for supporters, and it's grown into 30+ subgroups on everything from dogs to mental health, plus in-person meetups they run themselves.

Glenn's take, and I completely agree: the biggest mistake podcasters make when they say they want "community" is giving people no actual place to talk to each other. A community needs a room. You don't have a true community until they can talk to each other.

They get supporters directly involved too, birthdays shouted out on air, segment material submitted by listeners themselves. If your audience made the content, you already know they're going to like it.

Sponsors Who Become Part of the Family

Jamie and Glenn have given away more than $80,000 in prizes over 16 years, largely funded by sponsors who get a bit of airtime in exchange for product. Those relationships often graduate into full paid sponsorships once the brand sees it works.

That reminded me of Mark from Beyond Bourbon Street, a past guest of mine (episode 829) who had Two Chicks Walking Tours as a sponsor, then had listeners telling him in his own community that they'd taken the tour and loved it. That's the kind of proof that makes a sponsorship renewal conversation easy. And speaking of sponsors sticking around, I was listening to The New Media Show recently and they mentioned Todd Cochran had GoDaddy as a sponsor for around 21 years.

The Focus Group Most Podcasts Never Bother With

This one floored me. On top of their broader Patreon community, Glenn and Jamie run a rotating focus group of 12 listeners every six months whose entire job is to comment on every single episode. Every episode gets six to twelve honest responses.

That feedback has actually killed segments. They ran an "animal psychics" bit for a while that they personally enjoyed, but the negative response outweighed the positive, so it's gone. If you're going to ask your paying supporters for their opinion, you have to actually be willing to act on it.

Handling the People Who Don't Like You

Glenn's rule, learned from ten years running an improv theater company: about 80% of any audience likes what you do, and 20% doesn't. That ratio doesn't change. You're not making the show for the 20%. You're making it for the 80%, and Glenn pointed out the harder truth: a chunk of that 20% keeps listening anyway, seemingly just to be annoyed. Let it go.

Jamie added that after the true fans and the negative Nellies, there's a middle group whose feedback is the most useful because it's the most honest.

The Most Popular Segment Isn't the Guests

Right before hitting 4000 episodes, they surveyed listeners on favorite segments. The winner, by a wide margin: pure host banter, just Glenn and Jamie talking about nothing. Their biggest listener complaint over the years has actually been "too many guests." As Glenn put it, people come for the content and stay for the hosts.

What It Takes to Actually Make Money Doing This

Glenn's advice for a new podcaster wondering when the money shows up: niches make it easier. Horse people, in his words, are some of the most dedicated hobbyists out there, and that's true of plenty of other niches too (cycling, golf, you name it). Small and mid-sized brands without their own ad agencies are the sweet spot, and Glenn's found 80% of his sponsors by showing up in person at trade shows and introducing himself at every booth. He's been to 38 of them.

Their own listener survey backs this up: 80% of listeners said they'd bought a product because Glenn and Jamie talked about it on air in the last year. Only 25% said the same about a banner ad. Trust is the entire business model.

Doing the Show Sick, and Other Real-Talk Moments

When you're sick, you address it up front. Ignoring it doesn't work, because that's all the listener will focus on anyway. Same goes for a loud remote recording location. Be real about it and people roll with it, sometimes they even prefer it.

One detail that stuck with me: Jamie trains off-the-track thoroughbreds and has personally placed horses with listeners in 18 different states just by mentioning them on the show. That's community turned into real-world impact.

My Takeaways After the Interview

A few things I wanted to add once the mic was off:

Contact info matters more than you think. Always tell people how to reach you. For me that's https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/contact/. Someone recently told me they'd left a comment on my Substack and had no idea if I'd seen it, because I hadn't told them how I check for those.

Where to find ideas, beyond hanging out with your audience the way Glenn does: Google Alerts will tell you anytime a topic (or your name) gets mentioned online. Answer the Public shows you what people are actually typing into search around a topic. Or just Google your topic and scroll down to "People Also Ask."

On Podcast Movement: I wasn't selected to speak this year, which is the first time that's happened after speaking at every single one. Disappointing, sure, but I'll still be there to say hi, and I'll have more free time than usual. I am speaking at the Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte, NC, and at PodIndy in November.

Lesson learned: if a voting campaign like this comes around again, I'm rallying the troops early instead of assuming people will remember on their own.

On working with AI: I'm deep into learning Claude and all the "co-worky" automation stuff right now, and I'll be the first to admit I don't know what I don't know. I've been leaning on School of Podcasting members who are further along with it, including Craig from AI Goes to College and John Jamingo from Boomer Bunker.

If you're not doing audience surveys, that's its own version of not knowing what you don't know, and if you're not sure whether your audience is engaged, their silence on a survey is usually the answer.

Glenn's Past Appearances on the Show

• Making a Living Talking About Horses
• Learn How You Can Help Others by Sharing Your Abilities with Glenn Hebert

Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting

Starting August 19th, we're running two live classes. Podcasting in Six Weeks is back, and it's free this time, for anyone who hasn't launched a show yet: https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks. And for members, we're running a live Growing Your Audience course together, tracking your download numbers before and after: schoolofpodcasting.com/growcourse. Use the coupon code listener when you sign up for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly School of Podcasting membership.

Question of the Month

What's the smallest audience size you'd still do your show for? Would you quit if it dropped below that, or dig in to find out why? Send your answer to https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th, and include your show name and website so I can link to you in the notes.

I'm Dave Jackson. I help podcasters. It's what I do.

Until next week, take care, God bless.

Class is dismissed.

Research Links

• AnswerThePublic by Neil Patel: Keyword Research & Content Ideas
• Google Alerts - Monitor the Web for interesting new content
• How a Travel Podcast Survived Covid with Mark Bologna - Beyond Bourbon Street

Mentioned in this episode:

Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting

Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!) We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction. Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks Growing Your Podcast Live Course For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount. These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

Podpage Email Alerts

Podpage just launched a feature called Episode Alerts. It automatically emails your subscribers the moment a new episode goes live — no third-party email tool needed. When you publish, Podpage sends the email, links listeners straight to the episode, routes replies to your own inbox, and handles unsubscribes automatically. They also run every email address through validation and monitor bounces/spam complaints to protect your sender reputation. It's not meant to replace a full newsletter platform — no drip campaigns or segmentation — just a simple "hey, new episode's up" notification. It's available for Pro and Elite users, with monthly sending caps of 500 emails on Pro and 5,000 on Elite. For more information see https://www.podpage.com/updates/introducing-episode-alerts/

Podpage

If you look at movies that you love, and you think about them, and you remember how they made you feel. Today we talk about three things you can have in your tool belt to use in your show to not just have something to listen to, but to have content that moves your audience. We also answer the question what do Sportcasters, Movie Reviewers, and Christians all have in common?

Pull Some Emotion Into Your Show

Most podcasters focus on information—tips, tactics, and how‑tos. But your audience doesn’t connect to information first; they connect to emotion first.

Three Tools To Boost Connection

• Nostalgia
• Storytelling
• Vulnerability

As the old saying goes, "with great power comes great responsibility," so how do we use these ingredients in our show without sounding like we starting the sympathy engine just to grab attention?

What Do Christians, Movie Reviewer, and Sportscasters all have in common?

They are all working with the same source material. The same bible (more or less), the same movies, the same games. In this episode we talk about how to make your show stand out?

The Best Book on StoryTelling

I've read MANY books on storytelling, but Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks is the best - period. The audiobook is so good you will want to listen with a pad and pencil to take notes (or if you're loving in 2026, take notes on your phone).

Ready To Start Your Podcast?

Podcasting in Six Weeks

Mentioned in this episode:

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting

Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!) We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction. Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks Growing Your Podcast Live Course For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount. These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

School of Podcasting

What if one book could change the way you tell stories, connect with your audience, or even see your own podcast? In this episode of the School of Podcasting, I asked a simple question: “If you found out someone was a content creator, what book would you recommend?” — and the responses were pure gold.

You’ll hear from working podcasters, educators, business owners, and storytellers sharing the books that sharpened their craft, grew their communities, and kept them going when numbers and algorithms tried to wear them down. Along the way, I share my own must‑reads and pay tribute to a podcasting legend whose work shaped an entire generation of creators. If you’re ready to level up your show — not with more gear, but with better thinking, storytelling, and heart — this is the episode you’ll want to queue up next.

Participants

Kim Newlove

The Pharmacist Voice Podcast

The Perrysburg Podcast

Ralph Estep Jr.

The Content Creators Accountant

https://ralphestepjr.com/

Chris Nessi

House of EdTech

Mark Lawley

Practical Prepping Podcast

Nancy May (with co‑host Sylvia France)

Family Tree Food Stories Podcast

Dave Cohen

The Shakespeare Mindset

Tom Haley

Bluegrass Region Voices and Views

Books Mentioned

Find Your Red Thread: Make Your Big Ideas - Tamsen Webster

The Audience Is Listening: A Little Guide to Building a Big Podcast – Tom Webster

How to Win Friends and Influence People - Dale Carnegie

Sacred Cows Make the Best Burgers – Robert J. Kriegel, David Brandt

12 and a Half: Leveraging the Emotional Ingredients Necessary for Business Success – Gary Vaynerchuk

Acres of Diamonds – Jentezen Franklin

Hello, My Name Is Awesome: How to Create Brand Names That Stick – Alexandra Watkins

Into the Woods: A Five-Act Journey Into Story – John Yorke

Build a Strong Podcast: From Creation to Captivated Audience – Jennifer Longworth

Make Noise: A Creator’s Guide to Podcasting and Great Audio Storytellinghttps://geni.us/makenoise– Eric Nuzum

Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life Through the Power of Storytelling – Matthew Dicks

Platform: Get Noticed in a Noisy World – A Step-by-Step Guide for Anyone with Something to Say or Sell – Michael Hyatt

Big Podcast: Grow Your Podcast Audience, Build Listener Loyalty, and Get Everybody Talking About Your Showhttps://geni.us/big-podcast– David Hooper

So You Want to Start a Podcast: Finding Your Voice, Telling Your Story, and Building a Community That Will Listen – Kristen Meinzer

Out on the Wire: The Storytelling Secrets of the New Masters of Radio – Jessica Abel

Beyond Powerful Radio: A Communicator’s Guide to the Internet Age – Valerie Geller

Secrets of Dynamic Communication: Prepare with Focus, Deliver with Clarity, Speak with Power – Ken Davis

Sponsor Magnet – Justin Moore

Profit from Your Podcast: Turn Your Listeners into a Livelihood – Dave Jackson

Looking for more books on podcasting? Check here

In Honor of John C. Dvorak

The Grief Recovery Handbook: The Action Program for Moving Beyond Death, Divorce, and Other Losseshttps://geni.us/grief-recovery(20th Anniversary Expanded Edition) – John W. James, Russell Friedman

John was an amazing broadcaster. More thoughts on John's Impact.

Mentioned in this episode:

Build the Website You Want with Podpage

Podpage is flexible. If you want to promote something you can put it in the sidebar, on the front page, or at the bottom of every episode (not to mention the navigation bar, the footer and more). Podpage is designed specifically for podcasts. Quit trying to squeeze your podcast into a website made for a yoga studio. Start your free trial at podpage.com/preview

Podpage

Black Friday Podcasting Sepcial

Hey, podcast creators! Are you ready to take your podcast to the next level? We have an unbeatable deal just for you! Introducing the Hot Seat Service! For a limited time, get your podcast episode and website professionally audited. Dive deep into our 30-point checklist and uncover opportunities to improve your podcast's reach and engagement! 🔍 What's Included? Podcast Episode Audit: Pinpoint key areas for improvement. Website Audit: A thorough 30-point checklist to optimize your online presence. But wait, there’s more! When you sign up, you'll receive a free month at the School of Podcasting! That's one month of top-notch podcasting training normally at $99, absolutely free! 📚 Exclusive Offer: Your School of Podcasting membership includes 5 hours of personal consulting, a service valued at $1000 alone! All This for Just $99! Normally, you'd pay $1278 for this incredible package. But through December 31st, it's yours for just $99! 🚀 Don’t miss this chance to elevate your podcast without breaking the bank. Secure this offer today and watch your podcast thrive! Act Now! Spots are limited! fixmypodcast.com

Podcast Hotseat

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

When your CPMs start shrinking and programmatic ads feel like a losing game, it’s easy to wonder if podcasting is still worth it. In this episode, I want to show you a different path—one that doesn’t depend on ad tech behaving itself. I’m going to walk you through why community beats downloads, how smart feedback (like what Jack Rhysider does) can radically improve your show before it ever launches, and how simple tools like newsletters and Podpage can help you build a deeper relationship with your audience so your podcast is future‑proof, no matter what happens to ad rates.

Don't Take My Word For It

I heard it from on the Podbiz Show. Hall of Famer Leo Laporte shares a bit of history with ads, and Podfather Adam Curry explains how to future-proof your podcast. Brian Barletta explains how we need to move on from trying to get stats that are not possible, and focus on growing the industry.

Get Your Head Straight

I also talk about how I was inspired by writer Talyor Sheridan cold care less about the critics. He write the way he wants to write, about what he wants to write about and now his audience has found him and he is making a killing.

Get Your Content Straight

Geddy Lee has been performing in the band Rush for 50+ years and yet he still takes time to evaluate his playing. When we try to market "Meh" content we are wasting our time.

The Podcast Atlas Report

Sounds Profitable has released the Podcast Atlas Report which approaches the industry from the creators point of view. Some great insights into clips, newsletters, and more.

This content may contain affiliate links, meaning I earn a small commission if you purchase through these links at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products or services I trust and believe will provide value to you. Thank you for your support!

Takeaways:

• If you're feeling stuck with your podcast due to falling ad revenues, listen up!
• Forget chasing ad dollars; focus on building a loyal community that supports your podcasting journey.
• The real gold in podcasting isn’t just downloads; it’s about creating genuine connections with your listeners.
• Ads might be declining, but trust me, building a community will make your podcast thrive in the long run.
• The future of podcasting is all about community and trust, not just numbers on a screen.
• If you want to grow your podcast, start by picking one simple thing to engage with your audience.

Also Mentioned:

Sponsor Magnet Book

Podpage - Podcast Website Builder

Ray Arnott Interview- Around the Layout

Community Resources

Heartbeat (We use this for the School of Podcasting)

Circle

Skool (affordable, simple community)

Newsletter Tools

Kit (formerly Convertkit)

Mailerlite

Beehiiv

(and many more)

Mentioned in this episode:

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Unlock Exclusive Insights: Subscribe to 'Podcasting Observations' Newsletter!

Get a look into the world of podcasting like never before with "Podcasting Observations," your go-to source for trends, tips, and transformative insights tailored just for podcasters. You also get "behind the scenes" info from the School of Podcasting Don't miss out on staying ahead of the game—join the 1700+ people who are already reading Podcasting Observations today!

Podcasting Observations

Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting

Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!) We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction. Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks Growing Your Podcast Live Course For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount. These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

School of Podcasting

If you’ve ever thought, ‘I want feedback, but I’m terrified of the internet,’ stay tuned—I’ll show you how to get useful criticism without letting trolls live rent-free in your head.

Two Types of Feedback

I’m sharing how I handle trolls, reviews, and feedback—and how you can turn all of that into fuel to grow your show instead of reasons to quit. I’ll walk you through when to ignore, when to engage, and how to build a trusted focus group that helps you make your podcast better without letting anonymous strangers live rent‑free in your head.

Trolls, Critics and Focus Groups

I break down the difference between true trolls, genuine critics, and helpful focus groups—and how each one fits (or doesn’t) into your growth as a podcaster. I share real stories about nitpicky typo trolls, cyberbullying from years ago, people who send you two and a half pages of “do a different show,” and how other podcasters are using their audience—and even Snapchat—to get honest, constructive criticism.

By the end, you’ll see why I say feedback is the “breakfast of champions,” and why your fear of judgment shouldn’t keep your show stuck on your hard drive.

What You’ll Learn

Trolls vs. Focus Groups

• How I define a troll: unsolicited, emotionally charged feedback that’s mostly about getting a reaction.
• How I define a focus group: people who actually want to help shape and improve your show.
• Why some “trolls” are really just frustrated fans who want attention.

Classic Troll Bait Topics

• The three topics that almost guarantee you’ll attract trolls:
• Politics
• News / current events
• Religion
• Why I’m okay with pushback when I brush up against these—and why you should expect it if your show leans into them.

My Rules for Dealing with Trolls

• Rule #1: Don’t feed the trolls.
• I talk about why I always try to wait before responding.
• How I “kill them with kindness” when I choose to reply.
• Why I often simply say, “Thanks for the feedback,” and move on.
• How I remind myself that sometimes people are just having a bad day, and I happened to be standing in front of them.

Turning Feedback into a Tool for Growth

• The key question I always ask: “Do they have a point?”
• An example: being told, “You interrupt your guests too much,” and how I go back, listen, and honestly assess if they’re right.
• How I respond when someone clearly just wants me to do a completely different show than the one I want to make.

How I Engage Without Losing My Cool

• Why I sometimes ask, “How could I have done this better?” to separate useful advice from empty criticism.
• How I ask for evidence or sources in a non-defensive way:
• “I’m interested in digging into this—can you share a link?”
• When I’ll share my sources and politely stand my ground.
• When I decide it’s time to block, report, and move on, especially on platforms like YouTube.

Knowing My Audience (and My Why)

• How knowing who my show is for makes it easier to ignore the wrong people.
• Why I consider the nastiest haters as “not my target audience.”
• The math I look at: out of hundreds of reviews, only a tiny percentage are negative—but they love to hog my attention if I let them.

Stories and Examples I Share

Mark Maron on Trolls as “Frustrated Love”

• A clip from Mark Maron talking about trolls who keep coming back.
• How he describes repeat trolls as people who are weirdly in love with you and just want you to get mad so they feel seen.

The Typo Troll

• The listener who went absolutely ballistic over typos and sent me 5–6 paragraph rants.
• How I handled it when the comments got personal.
• How I eventually “trolled the troll” with humor and kindness and watched him disappear (and reappear…and disappear again).

Madame Strangeways & Fear of Feedback

• A conversation with Madame Strangeways who was reluctant to ask for feedback because of a cyberbullying incident 20 years ago.
• How I encourage her (and you) to start with trusted fans and patrons as a safe focus group.
• My “too much salt in the bread” analogy: people who love what you’re making will still tell you if something’s off, because they have to consume it.

Jr. Sparrow & Building a Focus Group

• How Jr. Sparrow used Snapchat’s Snap Map to find brutally honest listeners.
• How he turned “this show is crap” comments into a small group that now:
• Helps him curate which episodes to release.
• Shapes themes and content months in advance.
• Why he says you need “skin like Shrek” (thick skin, many layers) if you want to attach dollar signs to your show.

Using Feedback Before You Publish

• How experienced podcasters (including me) use feedback on topics, guests, and angles before episodes ever hit the feed.
• Why I’d rather kill an episode early than spend years promoting something that doesn’t resonate with my audience.

SnapChat's Snap Map Feature

Snapchat’s Snap Maps

https://youtu.be/l4R-wu42gZk?si=BVhAiDeB_Tq6anoO

Getting Data From Snap Map

https://youtu.be/qGxblSXvEbU?si=KoeDP8aI32uKvKjS

My Key Takeaways for You

• You are already being judged—at Home Depot, in the grocery line, everywhere—so a few online comments shouldn’t paralyze you.
• A tiny slice of reviews will be negative; they don’t outweigh the huge percentage of people who get value from your show.
• Feedback is how you get better. You can’t fix what you don’t know is broken.
• Learn to separate:
• Trolls – don’t feed them, or reply calmly and briefly.
• Constructive critics – look for the truth in what they’re saying.
• True fans / focus groups – invite them in and let them help you refine the show.
• If someone hates your show and clearly isn’t who you’re trying to reach, there’s a simple name for them: not your audience.

Mentioned in This Episode

• School of Podcasting – Where I help you plan, launch, and grow your podcast, including listener parties to get safe, constructive feedback.
• Ask the Podcast Coach – My live call-in/chat show for free podcast consulting.
• Podpage – Website platform for podcasters (I’m the Head of Podcasting there).
• Madame Strangeways – True strange stories at madamestrangeways.com.
• Jr. Sparrow – WVU Uncommon Place – Society and culture in West Virginia.

Call to Action

• Tell me what you think:
• Let me know one thing you love and one thing you’d change about this show at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact or schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail.
• Need help with your podcast?
• If you want a safe place to get honest feedback and improve your show, join me at SchoolOfPodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a discount. It comes with a 30‑day money‑back guarantee.

Mentioned in this episode:

Give Your Podcast A Home

When you look at our podcasting pieces, your media host is the engine. But your website is the home. It’s where your audience learns who you are, explores your episodes, and decides to subscribe. At Podpage, we build podcast websites that are fast, reliable, and designed to convert visitors into listeners. Every episode is automatically published, SEO-optimized, and structured for growth—so you can focus on creating, not managing your site. If your media host powers your podcast, Podpage gives it a place to live—and a place to grow. Start building your podcast’s home with Podpage by going to www.podpage.com/preview and start your 14 day free trial today.

Podpage

Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting

Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!) We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction. Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks Growing Your Podcast Live Course For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount. These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

Nobody shares a video they didn't watch. Nobody shares a podcast they didn't listen to, so how do we get people to listen? This week we follow up form last week's episode about measuring success without downloads and today I talk about completion percentage in Apple, Spotify, as well as Google Analytics. Josh Liston explains how he and his co-host from the SAKÉ THIS show.

How Long Should My Podcast Be?

The stand ard answer is "as long as it needs to be an not a minute longer." However, another way of looking at this is to ask, "How long can you hold someone's attention?"

You Can See How Far People Listen to Your Show

The Apple Dashboard: https://podcastsconnect.apple.com

The Spotify Dashboard: https://creators.spotify.com

Question of the Month Audio Tools

Last week I had a ton of replies to the Question of the Month. The issue is some of you have a ton of bass. Some of you are so clear it's almost shrill. Other have lots of background noise. This use to take me FOREVER to deal with until I started using tools from Accentize. I use a tool called DXRevive Pro cleans up the audio. Their Dialogue Enhance helps adjust the tone and remove noise. Then they have a free plugin called DXLevel that adjusts the volume levels (and it's free).

Takeaways:

• How Dave thinks about episode length (and why “as long as it needs to be” actually works in practice)
• How to use Apple Podcasts Connect and Spotify for Podcasters to measure completion percentage and attention, not just downloads
• Why video and YouTube completion rates look so much worse than audio—and how not to let that crush your ego
• How to use Google Analytics or Fathom to see which episodes and pages really resonate
• A behind-the-scenes look at the audio tools Dave uses (Accentize DX Revive, Dialog Enhance, and the free DX Level plugin) to make listener submissions sound more consistent
• An update on the “free version” experiment of the School of Podcasting and why future focus is shifting to live cohort-style classes

Dave also shares a listener contribution from Josh Liston of the SAKÉ THIS podcast, with two non-download ways he measures success for his Japan-focused comedy show.

Mentioned in this episode:

Podpage is Now Included with Blubrry Hosting

Blubrry Podcasting — one of the longest-running podcast hosting platforms in the industry — has chosen Podpage to replace their built-in website tool entirely. That means every Blubrry hosting customer gets a professional, automatically updated podcast website powered by Podpage, included with their hosting plan. For Podpage, this is more than a partnership announcement. It’s validation that podcast websites deserve dedicated website tools built specifically for podcasters.

Podpage

Black Friday Podcasting Sepcial

Hey, podcast creators! Are you ready to take your podcast to the next level? We have an unbeatable deal just for you! Introducing the Hot Seat Service! For a limited time, get your podcast episode and website professionally audited. Dive deep into our 30-point checklist and uncover opportunities to improve your podcast's reach and engagement! 🔍 What's Included? Podcast Episode Audit: Pinpoint key areas for improvement. Website Audit: A thorough 30-point checklist to optimize your online presence. But wait, there’s more! When you sign up, you'll receive a free month at the School of Podcasting! That's one month of top-notch podcasting training normally at $99, absolutely free! 📚 Exclusive Offer: Your School of Podcasting membership includes 5 hours of personal consulting, a service valued at $1000 alone! All This for Just $99! Normally, you'd pay $1278 for this incredible package. But through December 31st, it's yours for just $99! 🚀 Don’t miss this chance to elevate your podcast without breaking the bank. Secure this offer today and watch your podcast thrive! Act Now! Spots are limited! fixmypodcast.com

Podcast Hotseat

Check Out Dave's Newsletter With Behind the Scenes Content

In each issue of Podcasting Observations, I share my thoughts on what is happening in the podcasting space, my latest content, and things that have caught my eye. I also may ask for your opinion. Join the free community

Podcasting Observations

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

How do you measure the success of your podcast that is NOT downloads?

You’ll hear from a wide range of podcasters in different niches—storytelling, history, prepping, finance, faith, recovery, TV rewatch shows, local podcasts, health, creativity, and more—sharing how they really gauge success. Their answers include:

• Direct listener feedback & real‑life impact (behavior change, decisions, staying sober, safer driving, adopting, spending time with Jesus, handling conversations differently)
• Engagement & community (emails, voicemails, social comments, active groups, email lists, live events, guest offers, collaborations)
• Actions taken (lead magnet signups, newsletter growth, memberships, classes, affiliate links, donations and financial support)
• Enjoyment, fun, and personal growth (being excited about the next episode, getting better on the mic, becoming more confident and creative)
• Alignment with purpose & service (sticking to your “why,” serving a niche community, “who many” vs. “how many,” “one life at a time”)
• Legacy & memory (building an audio/video archive for family, preserving loved ones’ stories, creating a personal record you can revisit)

Along the way, Dave adds commentary on why downloads alone are a poor North Star, how to re‑center on who you serve and why you podcast, and how podcasting can be a tool for service, community, and legacy—not just stats.

Participants In This Episode

Scott from What Was That Like?

Kate from Drafting in the Past

Mark from Practical Prepping

Nancy from Family Food Stories

Buck

Ralph From Content Creator's Accountant

Steve from Podcast Editor's Mastermind

Trip From Home Brewed Christianity Podcast

Spencer from The Recovery Show

Travis from Bestie Approved

Ashriel from Called and Curious Podcast

Dave Interviewed Jesus

Zo from Back Look Cinema

Jen from Women in Podcasting

Marc from Solo Talk and Podcast Branding

Chris from Cool Cars with Chris

Howard from AA Recovery Interviews

Ray from Around the Layout

York from Welcome to Earth Stories

Rob from Softball Central

Dan from Based on a True Story

Tim from Create Art and My Solo MS Journey

Kim from the Pharmacist's Voice and the Perrysburg Podcast

Dave from Fix My Podcast

Mentioned in this episode:

You Have A Message That Needs to Be Heard

You have a message that needs to be shared. Discover the art of podcasting at the School of Podcasting. We teach you to shine a light on your stories, inspiring others one episode at a time. Let your voice be your legacy. Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/join

School of Podcasting

Build the Website You Want with Podpage

Podpage is flexible. If you want to promote something you can put it in the sidebar, on the front page, or at the bottom of every episode (not to mention the navigation bar, the footer and more). Podpage is designed specifically for podcasts. Quit trying to squeeze your podcast into a website made for a yoga studio. Start your free trial at podpage.com/preview

Podpage

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?

Are you getting the most out of your RSS feed?

To figure out if you are, you first have to understand how a podcast workflow works, which means you need to understand:

• what an RSS feed is
• how you make one
• where you get the best feed
• and how you make sure you're getting the most out of it

Don't Make These Mistakes

In this episode, I'm going to explain some of the mistakes I see people making with RSS feeds, especially when it comes to getting the most out of transcripts. In some cases, people aren't putting their transcripts into their media host, which means their transcripts aren't going into their feed. That is not something the best way to maximize your show.

Where Do I Get an RSS Feed?

Your RSS feed comes from your media host. For me, the best RSS feeds come from dedicated media hosts. Places like Captivate, Buzzsprout, rss.com, and Blubrry. All of these do one thing: they host your files, they provide an RSS feed, and they provide statistics.

Make Sure Your Transcripts are In Your RSS Feed

While having transcripts on your website is good, you are missing another opportunity by having them in your feed (which can be used in Podcast apps). When it comes to Podpage, having the transcript in your feed put it into a place where Podpage can grab it and put it on your site.

Don't Hire Your Dentist to Work On Your Car

Other places like Riverside are trying to be a jack-of-all-trades and a master of none. I don't want someone who's not a master of the RSS feed. The RSS feed is like the blood in your veins; it is your veins, and you don't want your veins to be Scotch-taped together. You want an RSS feed that is fully compatible with all the features available for podcasters.

Directing People To Your Site

When I recently tested Riverisde, you could not direct people at the episode level to your site. This is a missed opportunity.

This means that, when somebody is consuming your content in an app, usually there is a link to go to the website, which takes them to, (if you're doing it correctly) your website. On the episode page, I'm offering the ability to follow the show easily on Spotify, Apple, Pocket Cast, etc. If you don't have that link, you're missing an opportunity to send the audience where you want them to go. I need to email Riverside because this just reeks of a company who doesn't really understand podcasting getting into podcasting. Consequently, I know it's nice to have everything under one login, but how hard is it to login to more than one account (especially if you have 1password).

No RSS No Podcast

People keep asking what a podcast is. I'm not sure why. It's audio, video delivered via RSS. This means YouTube is not a podcast. It's a show. Radio is not TV. Both are content. When we blur the definition it messes up all of our reports. People have asked, "Well, the audience thinks YouTube is a podcast are we supposed to tell them they are wrong?" The answer is yes.

Then we could have separate reports on YouTube vs Podcasts.

If someone hears me listening to the band Sum 41, and says, "I love blink 182," I would say, "That's not Sum 41, it's blink 182. You're helping them not look stupid in the future. You would do the same thing if they called a banana an apple.

Other Hosts I Don't Recommend

Spotify: From their lying to their original partners, to making features that only work inside of Spotify (ignoring the open podcast system), and often eliminating features shrtly after they launch (never worldwide). I could go on for hours. Yes, it's free but so is RSS, Buzzsprout, and Red Circle.

Soundcloud: Soundcloud, to the best of my knowledge hasn't implement features that were introduced in 2017. You can buy soundcloud plays (Google it) so consquentially you will never have sponsors while you use Soundcloud.

Mailbag: AMP 30 Second Rule

Thanks to Mark for pushing back on my math. In the end (as of this date) AMP can't decide what their definition is (As they've already changed it). Also one of their "hidden" companies was YouTube. I'm sorry, if you're not doing anything wrong, why are you doing it in secret?

Defined in their original press release as “30 seconds of content played, audio or video, once per user per session”, the corrected text drops any definition of a session length, becoming just “30 seconds of content played, audio or video”. - source Podnews.

Mailbag: How Are Your Updating Your Question of the Month?

Rob from Softball Central asked how I was having the current question of the month appear in episodes that are years old. For the last two years I've hosted on Captivate. I love their business model (Multiple shows for the same price - and their super flexible dynamic content system). Dynamic content doesn't always have to be ads. Here are examples

• Question of the month
• Where will I be (live appearances)
• A pre-roll that mentioned that I had given out a wrong episode number.

They also allow me to tag the current promotional mp3 so later I can easily take all the "questions of the month" and update them with the new, current months question.

Click Here to watch me show this off.

Mentioned in This Episode

The 4 Cs of a Standout Podcast: Clarity, Contrast, Consistency, Character

Sponsor Magnet Book by Justin Moore

Captivate Media Hosting

Buzzsprout Media Hosting

RSS.com Media Hosting

Practical Prepping Show

Softball Central

School of Podcasting

Podpage - Build the Website your show Deserves

Mentioned in this episode:

Have You Heard About the Podpage Assistant?

Here's what it can do: Identify the best search keyphrase to target — The Assistant analyzes your episode and finds the keyphrase most likely to drive organic traffic. Generate optimized SEO titles and descriptions — Get search-friendly titles and meta descriptions written for each episode automatically. Expand your show notes — Turn brief show notes into detailed, search-friendly content that helps Google understand what your episode is about. Create SEO schema — Automatically generate structured data including FAQs and key takeaways, giving search engines even more context about your content. Generate episode transcriptions — If your podcast host doesn't provide transcripts, the Assistant can create them for you. Create companion blog posts — Each episode can get a dedicated blog post that supports your episode's SEO and gives listeners another way to find you. Automatically categorize episodes — Keep your episode library organized without lifting a finger. Start your 14 day trial at www.podpage.com/preview

Podpage

Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads

We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why? Does the size of your audience matter? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)

School of Podcasting

Don't Wait to Level Up Your Show

Thinking about starting a podcast—or already 300 episodes in? Skip the rookie mistakes, save money, and level up your show with the School of Podcasting with Dave Jackson, where you get hands-on feedback, one-on-one support, and practical advice that actually improves your podcast. Not sure? Just ask Krista and Mark from practicalprepping.info Then join the School of Podcasting at www.schoolofpodcasting.com/join (or use the link below)

School of Podcasting

Live Appearances

I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact

Where Will I Be?