Starts at the Top Podcast

We Are Not Machines: Sarah O’Connor on AI and the Future of Work

We chat to author and Financial Times journalist Sarah O’Connor about her book We are Not Machines: The Fight For the Future of Work

For our 100th episode, we’re marking the milestone with a Future of Work special. We chat to Sarah O’Connor, columnist, reporter and associate editor at the Financial Times, and author of We Are Not Machines: The Fight for the Future of Work. We also discuss current stories about AI at work, from Anthropic’s report on AI agents to professional services pricing and charity workforce planning. Our first ever guest, Simon Blake, now CEO of Stonewall, also joins us with a voice note about work, relationships and the future of the charity sector.

What happens to the quality of work when AI and automation arrive? Sarah O’Connor has spent years reporting on the people experiencing these changes first-hand. In her book, she speaks to workers whose jobs are not simply disappearing, but are becoming more intense, more monotonous or less human.

Sarah tells us why we need to look beyond predictions about how many jobs AI might replace and pay attention to what is already happening to the work itself. Warehouse workers now work alongside robots, while translators are asked to edit machine-generated subtitles at greater speed and for less pay. The technology can bring real benefits, but the way it is introduced shapes whether people gain more control or lose the parts of work they value.

We discuss:

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Why the quality of work matters as much as the number of jobs

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How AI can affect the way we read, think, learn and relate to one another

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Why young people may be especially affected as entry-level work and recruitment change

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How leaders can involve workers in decisions about technology and protect the human parts of work

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Why the future of work is still open to influence, and what gives Sarah hope

This is a thoughtful, grounded conversation about the choices leaders can make as work changes, and why technology’s impact on people is not inevitable.

Show notes

•

We Are Not Machines: The Fight for the Future of Work by Sarah O’Connor

•

What does the future of the charity workforce look like in the age of AI?, a white paper from Zoe Amar Digital, Corndel and Microsoft

•

How employment is changing at Anthropic, the report discussed by Zoe and Paul

•

Episode 50: Toxic masculinity in the workplace, with Soma Sara

About Sarah O’Connor

Sarah O’Connor is a columnist, reporter and associate editor at the Financial Times. She writes a weekly column focused on the world of work, alongside longer features and investigations. Her journalism has received awards including the Orwell Prize for Exposing Britain’s Social Evils and the Wincott Award for financial journalism.

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

How to Prepare for an Unpredictable Future: Trust, AI and the Human Skills Leaders Need

We chat with Andy Milligan and Louisa Clarke, authors of Futureshift: How Business and Brands Prepare for What Comes Next.

How can leaders prepare for the future when five-year plans are beginning to feel like works of fiction?

In the first episode of season 11, we speak to Andy Milligan and Louisa Clarke, authors of Futureshift. Drawing on interviews with more than 30 senior leaders around the world, their book explores how organisations can respond to technological disruption, geopolitical uncertainty, changing expectations and the climate crisis.

Andy and Louisa explain why preparing for the future is less about predicting exactly what will happen and more about building the mindset, culture and capabilities to respond well when it does.

We discuss:

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Why leaders are shortening their planning horizons as uncertainty grows

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How transparency, consistency and honesty build trust when difficult decisions and compromises have to be made

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Why command-and-control leadership is no longer fit for purpose

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What it means to decentralise authority and give people the psychological safety to experiment and make mistakes

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How AI can strengthen human connection rather than simply replace jobs

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Why using AI solely as a cost-cutting tool can create new risks and inefficiencies

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The growing importance of empathy, creativity, curiosity, critical thinking and ethical judgement

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Why organisations are moving from fixed roles and departments towards more fluid capabilities and cross-functional teams

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How customer expectations are shifting from convenience towards greater consciousness about the values and behaviour of organisations

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Why leaders need to create protected time for horizon scanning and thinking about what comes next

Andy and Louisa also share practical advice for time-poor leaders. Their recommendations include staying curious, seeking out trusted sources, listening to younger colleagues and perspectives outside your usual bubble, and deliberately creating some white space in your diary.

Before our conversation with Andy and Louisa, Zoe and Paul discuss how the debate about AI is becoming increasingly polarised. At one extreme, organisations are still working out how to use tools such as large language models and AI agents. At the other, public debate is racing towards predictions about economic collapse and threats to humanity.

Zoe and Paul explore why leaders need to resist being pulled into an AI culture war and focus on what is within their control: making thoughtful decisions, creating the right culture, setting appropriate guardrails and balancing innovation with responsible risk management.

This is a pragmatic and optimistic conversation about preparing for uncertainty, maintaining trust and ensuring that technology helps people become more human, not less.

Show notes

Find out more about Futureshift and share your hopes and fears for the future

Buy Futureshift: How Business and Brands Prepare for What Comes Next

Visit The Caffeine Partnership

About Andy Milligan and Louisa Clarke

Andy Milligan is the founder of The Caffeine Partnership, an award-winning consultancy, and an international brand and business adviser. He works with CEOs and senior leadership teams on brand development, business growth, customer experience and organisational culture. His previous books include Bold, On Purpose and Brand It Like Beckham.

Louisa Clarke is the former Managing Partner of The Caffeine Partnership and now Head of Marketing at Selective Marketplace, the company behind premium womenswear brands Poetry and Wrap London. She advises leaders and teams on strategy, communication, customer experience and business growth.

Together, Andy and Louisa are the authors of Futureshift: How Business and Brands Prepare for What Comes Next.

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

AI, careers and the human skills that cannot be replaced

We chat to Babith Bhoopalan, Founder of Quantum Leap Insights and former Microsoft Director.

In this episode we chat with Babith Bhoopalan, Seattle-based founder of Quantum Leap Insights and former Director at Microsoft, where he spent 25 years working at the heart of AI and enterprise technology.

Babith's journey into one of the most urgent questions facing families today began not in a boardroom, but at a kitchen table. When his daughter Thea asked him a simple question, "Dad, am I studying the right things?" , he found he had no honest answer to give her.

So he did what any good researcher does. He went looking for one.

Drawing on 17 authoritative sources including the World Economic Forum, Goldman Sachs, McKinsey and Stanford, Babith built a free framework that scores 35+ careers for AI resistance and identifies four human capabilities that AI genuinely cannot replicate. He turned that research into two free tools: an interactive AI career guide and an AI career playbook generator.

The results have been extraordinary. The tools have now reached over 30,000 families across 128 countries. The Wall Street Journal, the Sunday Times, BBC Radio 4, the Seattle Times and the Toronto Star have all covered Babith's work. He has keynoted the 35th APDC Congress in Lisbon alongside the Portuguese government and is exploring collaboration with the UN Youth Office in New York. And now he’s on our podcast!

Both tools remain permanently free to access - this is not a business decision, but a conviction.

In this episode we discuss:

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The missing rung problem: why AI isn't threatening your child's entire career, but is quietly collapsing the first two to three years of it, including entry-level roles in law, accountancy, finance and tech

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The four human capabilities AI cannot replicate: emotional intelligence, creative vision, physical dexterity and ethical judgment, and why they are the whole competitive advantage for the next generation

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From fear to design: how families can move from panic to a structured plan for navigating careers in the age of AI

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The university question:why the degree alone is no longer the guarantee it was, and what students should be building alongside their qualifications

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Versus the trades conversation that is long overdue: why electricians, plumbers and physiotherapists sit at the top of Babith's AI resistance framework

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The three perfect storms hitting organisations simultaneously: structural qualification gaps, the pandemic's impact on relational development, and leaders promoted for technical skills now asked to demonstrate human ones

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Empathy as competitive advantage: why it is not a consolation prize for people who cannot code, but the entire game

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What comes nextfor Babith: a girls-focused research layer, country-specific guidance, and why Babith will never put these tools behind a paywall

Also in this episode:

Before the conversation with Babith, Zoe and Paul discuss the UK government's proposed ban on social media for under-16s, what it means for young people's learning, creativity and connection, whether it risks driving them to darker corners of the internet, and why the real answer may lie in providing better offline alternatives.

Babith's free tools:

AI Career Guide - http://quantumleapinsights.com/

AI Career Playbook Generator - http://quantumleapinsights.com/

(Both tools are permanently free. Links will open Babith's site directly.)

Resources mentioned:

World Economic Forum Future of Jobs Report - https://www.weforum.org/reports/future-of-jobs-report-2025

Goldman Sachs AI and the Future of Work research - https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/generative-ai-could-raise-global-gdp-by-7-percent

McKinsey Global Institute - The future of work after COVID-19 - https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/future-of-work

Thomson Reuters Institute - Generative AI and legal work - https://thomsonreuters.com/en/reports/generative-ai-report.html

New York Federal Reserve - Labour Market Outcomes for Recent College Graduates - https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market

About Babith Bhoopalan

Babith Bhoopalan is the Seattle-based founder of Quantum Leap Insights and a former Director at Microsoft, where he spent 25 years at the intersection of AI, enterprise technology, product, engineering, partnerships and customer strategy. He has advised some of the world's largest organisations on making AI work in the real world. His research on AI and careers has been covered by the Wall Street Journal, the Sunday Times, BBC Radio 4, the Seattle Times and the Toronto Star. He keynoted the 35th APDC Congress in Lisbon alongside the Portuguese government and is currently exploring collaboration with the UN Youth Office in New York. His free tools have reached over 30,000 families in 128 countries.

Find Babith on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/babithb/

Show notes

Recorded: 11 and 22 June 2026

Season note: This is the last episode before the summer break and Zoe and Paul sign off until September.

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

AI, Access to Justice and the Future of Human-Centred Leadership

We chat to Pip Wilson, Co-Founder and CEO of amicable

As AI becomes more embedded in our workplaces and daily lives, leaders are wrestling with a difficult question: how do we embrace the benefits of technology without losing sight of the people it's supposed to serve?

In this episode of Starts at the Top, we speak to Pip Wilson, co-founder and CEO of amicable, the UK-based legal services business that is transforming how people navigate separation and divorce. Pip shares how amicable combines technology, AI and human expertise to make one of life's most challenging experiences kinder, more affordable and less adversarial.

Pip's journey spans successful tech entrepreneurship, angel investing and social impact. Together, we explore what happens when technology is designed around human needs rather than professional systems, and why the most successful businesses of the future may be those that combine commercial success with social purpose.

In this episode, we discuss:

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How amicable was born from a deeply personal experience of divorce and a desire to create a better alternative.

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Why the traditional legal system often makes separation harder, more expensive and more stressful than it needs to be.

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How technology and AI can improve access to justice while keeping people at the centre of the process.

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The opportunities and limitations of AI in emotionally complex situations.

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Why transparency, affordability and user-centred design matter in professional services.

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The future of relationship support, from cohabitation agreements to co-parenting and life after divorce.

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Pip's philosophy as an entrepreneur, angel investor and B Corp leader.

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Why businesses that combine social purpose with commercial sustainability are best placed to thrive in the future.

As world leaders, governments and organisations debate how AI should be regulated, Zoe and Paul explore a more immediate leadership challenge: what does it actually mean to stay in control of AI?

They discuss:

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Anthropic co-founder Jack Clark's proposal for a permanent "Cobra for AI" capability within government.

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Pope Leo's call for AI to be developed in service of human dignity rather than domination.

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Whether increasing reliance on AI tools could affect our confidence in writing, thinking and decision-making.

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The tension between leaders wanting to realise AI's benefits quickly and employees who need time, support and psychological safety to adapt.

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The warning signs that organisations may be moving too quickly towards automation.

These themes provide the perfect backdrop to our conversation with Pip, whose work sits at the intersection of AI, ethics, human dignity and innovation.

Show notes

About amicable

Visit the amicable website , or book a 15-minute call with amicable
Zoe and Paul discussed:
Jack Clark on the need for a permanent "Cobra for AI" capability

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2124z7g45o
The Pope’s Eclyical on AI
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cedppn6002jo

Kate Waters on AI, writing confidence and authorship

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/katewaterscomms_usually-im-lucky-if-my-linkedin-posts-get-share-7468238726322696192-ltx2/

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

From Control to Collaboration: Five Mindset Shifts Leaders Need for the Age of AI

We chat with Eleanor Gibson, Agile and Innovation Coach and Founder of Tilt

This week we chat to Eleanor Gibson, founder of Tilt, who has helped over 40 charities rethink not just what they do, but how they work. Eleanor shares her five mindset shifts model for leaders — from outputs to outcomes, hierarchies to networks, controlling to empowering, predicting to experimenting, and isolation to transparency — and explains why these shifts are more urgent than ever as AI reshapes the way organisations operate.

We caught Eleanor just before she went on maternity leave — congrats, Eleanor! — and had a brilliant conversation about why discomfort is a sign you're doing change right, how smaller charities can leapfrog larger ones by moving faster with AI, and why being intentional about how you work is the single most important thing leaders can do right now.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

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Eleanor's five mindset shifts for adaptable, resilient leadership

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Why focusing on how your organisation works can unlock huge potential — especially with AI

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The risks AI poses to institutional knowledge and collaboration, and what to do about them

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How to build resilience and confidence when change feels uncomfortable

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Why smaller, more agile charities are seizing the AI opportunity faster than larger ones

Before our chat with Eleanor, Zoe and Paul discuss the human side of AI — from the Royal Observatory's warning about outsourcing our thinking, to a Stanford student's account of graduating from the first "AI era" college class, to what happens to real human connection when AI gets so good at performing empathy.

Show Notes & Links

Tilt https://teamtilt.co.uk/

Tilt's "Where to Start with Agile Ways of Working" workbook — available via https://teamtilt.co.uk/

Charity Change Collective

Find Eleanor on LinkedIn

Zoe and Paul discussed:

Royal Observatory Greenwich on AI and critical thinking https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2023l60370o

Theo Baker, New York Times — graduating from the first AI era college class https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/17/opinion/chatgpt-ai-college-school-graduation.html

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Weapons of Mass Confidence: How AI Can Help Close the Confidence Gap for Women

We chat with Kat Thomas, author of Weapons of Mass Confidence and founder of creative communications company Knock Three Times.

We're back with a conversation that we think will resonate with so many of you, particularly anyone juggling a senior role, caring responsibilities, and the relentless mental load of work and home.

We were thrilled to chat to Kat Thomas, multi-award-winning creative entrepreneur and author of Weapons of Mass Confidence: How AI Will Help Women Win More.Kat shares the deeply personal story behind the book- navigating her dad's move into care from a different country, hitting bureaucratic dead ends, and the moment ChatGPT helped her solve in ten days what had taken her ten months of phone calls and lawyers' fees.

From there, the conversation opens up into something much bigger: the confidence gap, the hidden cost of under-asking, and why women must show up to AI rather than reject it -because if we don't, the biases baked into these tools will only get worse.

This is a hopeful, honest, and very practical conversation about how AI can be a quiet accelerator for women at work and at home.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

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The very personal story that led Kat to write the book — and why her first AI use case was nothing to do with work

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The confidence gap, and why women often hold back when men go for it

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AI as a private "rehearsal room" for difficult conversations, doctor's appointments, salary negotiations and life admin

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The "power moves vs polish" divide: how men and women are using AI differently, and the guilt factor holding women back

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Why rejecting AI on ethical grounds risks making bias worse, not better

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Kat's Just Ask philosophy — and what changes when asking becomes normal rather than risky.

Zoe and Paul also discuss two stories shaping the leadership conversation right now: Rishi Sunak's observation that "flat is the new up" — the idea that organisations can grow without growing headcount thanks to AI -and what this means for younger talent looking for a career path. Plus, Claude's recent pricing experiments and what the shift from SaaS-style licences to metered, usage-based AI pricing means for small businesses, charities and anyone trying to budget responsibly in an AI-dependent world.

Show Notes & Links

Weapons of Mass Confidence - https://www.waterstones.com/book/weapons-of-mass-confidence/kat-thomas/9781835842027
Zoe and Paul discussed:

Rishi Sunak on AI and taxation - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg07x4rejdoChanges to Claude’s pricing model and AI dependency - https://zoeamar.com/2026/04/30/ai-governance-risk-charity-leaders/

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

How Leaders Can Make Life Happier: Mark Williamson on burnout, mindset and hope

We chat to Dr Mark Williamson, co-founder and Director of Action for Happiness and author of Make Life Happier.

We’re back for Season 10, and we’re opening on a positive no by chatting to Dr Mark Williamson, co-founder and Director of Action for Happiness and author of new book ‘Make Life Happier: 23 practical ways to feel better, find meaning and make adifference. ‘

We were delighted to chat to Mark about how leaders can come off autopilot, tame the inner critic, build healthier habits and lead with realistic optimism.

This is a thoughtful, practical conversation about what it takes to stay grounded, connected and hopeful in uncertain times.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

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why leadership feels harder than ever right now

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how to practise self-compassion without lowering your standards

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the power of mindful check-ins and better listening

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practical habits for protecting your wellbeing

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how realistic optimism can help leaders navigate uncertainty

Zoe and Paul also discuss the complexity crisis facing leaders today, from AI disruption and regulation to burnout and constant change, based on their news round up.

Show Notes & Links

Zoe and Paul discussed:

Make Life Happier by Mark Williamson https://www.bonnierbooks.co.uk/news-and-media/make-life-happier-finding-meaning-with-dr-mark-williamson/

Action for Happiness https://actionforhappiness.org/

University of Manchester Business School report
https://www.insidermedia.com/blogs/north-west/the-complexity-crisis-why-uk-leadership-needs-a-reset

AI chatbot regulation
https://www.techpolicy.press/uk-seeks-more-powers-under-online-safety-act-to-tackle-ai-harms/

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

How Mercy Corps Is Leading Through Funding Cuts and AI Disruption

We speak to Tjada D’Oyen McKenna, CEO of Mercy Corps

In this final episode of the season, we speak to Tjada D’Oyen McKenna, CEO of Mercy Corps, about leading through one of the most volatile periods the humanitarian sector has faced in years.

Mercy Corps operates in some of the most fragile places on earth. Over the past year, Tjada and her team have had to navigate sudden US government funding cuts, geopolitical uncertainty and rising global need — all while continuing to innovate, including with AI.

So how do you lead when programmes are shut down overnight?
How do you stay transparent when you don’t have all the answers?
And how do you embrace AI without losing sight of human judgement, fairness and trust?

Tjada shares how she stayed “ahead of the grief curve” as a leader, why showing your values matters more than ever, and how innovation doesn’t have to mean moonshots — sometimes it’s about disciplined, human-centred experimentation.

Alongside the interview, we reflect on what recent headlines from PwC, Accenture and others reveal about the future of skills, promotions and leadership in an AI-shaped workplace.

As we close this season, this episode asks:

How do you lead with integrity when everything feels uncertain?

Earlier in the episode, Zoe and Paul reflect on what recent headlines reveal about the pace of AI change — from PwC’s decision to protect human judgement in entry-level roles, to Accenture linking promotions to AI tool usage, and the viral essay arguing that AI disruption is accelerating faster than most leaders realise. Together, these stories frame the wider leadership tensions explored in our conversation with Tjada.

Show Notes & Links

Zoe and Paul discussed:

PwC on preserving human subjectivity in decision-making:
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/pwc-says-ai-cannot-replace-human-subjectivity-in-decision-making/

Accenture linking promotions to AI tool usage:
https://www.theguardian.com/accenture/2026/feb/19/accenture-links-staff-promotions-to-use-of-ai-tools

Matt Shumer – Something Big Is Happening:
https://shumer.dev/something-big-is-happening

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Safety by Design: Protecting Children in the Age of AI

We chat with Maeve Walsh, Director of the Online Safety Act Network

Join Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas for a conversation with Maeve Walsh, Director of the Online Safety Act Network. In this episode, we explore the complex landscape of online safety regulation, the emerging risks AI poses to children, and what parents and leaders really need to know.

Maeve brings a wealth of experience to this conversation, having spent 17 years in Whitehall including roles at Cabinet Office, No10 and DCMS, where she led the team responsible for delivering the UK Digital Strategy. As a Carnegie Trust associate, her work on online harm reduction helped shape the Online Safety Act. She now leads the Online Safety Act Network and is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts.

In this engaging discussion, Zoe, Paul and Maeve discuss:

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Why regulation drives innovation rather than stifling it – and how online safety regulation creates a level playing field, just as safety standards have done in sectors from food to cars.

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The end of tech exceptionalism. Why the argument that social media platforms are somehow "different" and can't be regulated is being debunked globally, from the EU's Digital Services Act to Australia's under-16 ban.

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The alarming risks AI poses to children – from chatbots designed to be persuasive and sycophantic, to harmful content being served up without safety testing. Why AI products are essentially being "tested in the wild" on our kids.

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What the public actually want. 72% say regulation would increase their comfort with AI, and 78% want safety checks on generative AI products even if it means delays – so why isn't this translating into industry action?

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Why even tech-savvy parents struggle with parental controls – and why the responsibility for keeping children safe shouldn't fall solely on their shoulders.

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What safety by design actually looks like: privacy set to the highest setting by default, better verification, and children only seeing content from accounts they follow.

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Practical advice for parents on having those tricky tech conversations with your kids – and why communication beats restriction.

Show Notes & Links

Online Safety Act Network

Maeve Walsh on LinkedIn

Zoe and Paul discussed:

BBC – AI chatbots and the risks to young people

The Guardian – Moltbook: the social media site built for AI agents

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Keeping Children Safe Online: AI, the Online Safety Act, and Leadership with Lived Experience

We chat to Chris Sherwood, Chief Executive of the NSPCC

This week we're thrilled to bring you the first of two special episodes focused on the Online Safety Act – a topic that's hitting the headlines right now as Ofcom investigates Elon Musk's X and its AI tool Grok for potentially generating indecent images.

We sat down with Chris Sherwood, the brilliant Chief Executive of the NSPCC, who brings over 20 years of voluntary sector experience and a deeply personal connection to child protection – Chris contacted Childline himself as a child. Now he's leading one of the UK's most important charities at a pivotal moment for online safety.

This is a powerful conversation where we discuss:

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Why the Online Safety Act matters now: Chris explains why Ofcom needs to "show teeth" and use its full range of powers to hold tech companies accountable

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The AI Wild West: From AI enabled sextortion of young boys to AI-generated child abuse material

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Leading with lived experience: How Chris's own childhood experience shapes his leadership and why having proper support networks matters

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Why safety can't rest on parents' shoulders: The case for tech companies designing safety in from the start, not as an afterthought

•

AI opportunities at NSPCC: How the charity is using technology to deepen supporter relationships and better understand children's experiences through Childline data

Paul and Zoe discuss the ICO's new report on agentic AI and the data protection considerations leaders need to keep front of mind, plus KPMG's bold move to rate staff on how effectively they use AI in performance reviews – a signal that AI literacy is becoming a core professional skill.

This is essential listening for anyone who cares about child safety, responsible AI, or leading with authenticity and purpose.

Show Notes & Links

NSPCC Child Safety Online Taskforce Report with Baringa – Research showing online safety influences consumer choices

ICO Tech Futures: Agentic AI Report

KPMG AI Use Metric: A Necessary Professional Services Wake-up Call

Common Sense Media – NSPCC's US partner on keeping children safe online

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Creating the Conditions for Innovation

We chat with Ali Paul, Lead Product Manager for Chatbots and Generative AI at Flo Health

In our final episode of 2025, we're thrilled to share our conversation with Ali Paul, Lead Product Manager for Chatbots and Generative AI at Flo Health – the world's number one women's health app with over 420 million users globally.

Ali oversees Flo's chatbot development, content platforms and AI product teams, and she joins us to share her insights on how leaders can create the best conditions for innovation in their teams. We discuss how Flo is pioneering the use of generative AI in women's health, the challenges of developing medically safe LLM-based products, and why a democratised approach to AI adoption has been key to Flo's success.

Before our chat with Ali, Paul and I share some reflections on 2025 – from AI trends and what they might mean for 2026, to our Navigating AI Transformation leadership walk in Richmond Park with James and Anni (coming back in April!), and of course, our music highlights of the year.

What We Cover

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How Flo is using AI for both productivity and user-facing product development

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The unique challenges of creating a medically safe LLM for women's health

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Why Flo has taken a democratised, entrepreneurial approach to AI adoption

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The evolution from startup to scale-up and creating empowered product teams

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How marketing skills transfer brilliantly to product management

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Ali's advice on authenticity and finding what truly matters in your career

•

Our 2025 reflections and predictions for AI in 2026

About Ali Paul

Ali Paul is Lead Product Manager for Chatbots and Generative AI at Flo Health, overseeing chatbot development, content platforms and AI product teams. With a background spanning Cancer Research UK, Bupa and various innovation and ventures teams, Ali brings a wealth of experience in health tech and product development. She's a speaker on product, health tech and femtech, and is passionate about using technology to empower women to advocate for their own health.

Charities – Get in Touch!

Ali mentioned opportunities for charities to partner with Flo, particularly around scientific and research collaborations, and CSR initiatives supporting women's health in countries with poorer health infrastructures. If you're interested, drop Zoe an email at zoe@zoeamar.com and she'll connect you with the right people at Flo.

Show Notes & Links

•

Flo Health app https://flo.health/

•

McKinsey article on AI skills gaps on boards https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-technology/our-insights/the-ai-reckoning-how-boards-can-evolve?stcr=BEC99EF56EC8494CA58588D24EDEB808&cid=mgp_opr-eml-alt-dna_mt-mgp-glb--&hlkid=93af2160e2db48bfa3565b306d4b54c4&hctky=10286975&hdpid=25c51be9-100a-42fd-8d20-d7ea12d337a7

•

Charity AI Task Force (co-chaired by Zoe with Dan Sutch of CAST) https://www.wearecast.org.uk/our-work/how-we-work-with-funders-and-partners/charity-ai-task-force/

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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The AI Trojan Horse: A Chief Data Officer’s Secrets to Leading Culture Change

We chat with Tony Zona, Chief Data Officer at Grant Thornton

In this episode, we chat with Tony Zona, the Chief Data Officer at Grant Thornton UK. We talk about leadership, data, and the cultural shift required to unlock the value of AI.

Tony’s 25-year journey at Grant Thornton, evolving from a tax trainee to becoming the firm’s first ever Chief Data Officer in 2022, is a masterclass in adaptability and innovation.

He offers a brilliant, people-focused perspective on data-led transformation, famously comparing siloed business units to different Italian dialects—and how his work has been about creating a common, understandable ‘business language’ for the firm’s 5,000+ people.

What You’ll Learn:

•

The Trojan Horse Strategy: Why Tony advises leaders to not talk about data, but instead use the excitement of AI as a Trojan Horse to secure buy in for essential foundational work like data literacy and governance.

•

Mindset Shift: Grant Thornton’s 3D Initiative: Tony details the firm’s unique, multi million pound 3D (Data Driven Digital Mindset) programme—designed to move beyond typical training by fostering a cultural shift and measurable outcomes among leaders and associates.

•

Data as a Feedback Loop: Discover how Grant Thornton turns data recording from an overhead into a self-perpetuating, value-driven loop by connecting high quality data directly to a leader’s top priorities, like forecasting and profitability.

•

Lessons for All Leaders: Tony shares practical takeaways for resource constrained leaders—especially those in the third sector—on how to start small, focus on core business values (like saving lives, not just profitability), and celebrate the ‘data wins’ to spark a data literate culture.

Before the interview, Zoe and Paul offer a considered appraisal of the UK AI skills report, discussing the dangers of a widening gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' and the critical challenge of consistent implementation across all sectors, from top accountancy firms to grassroots charities.

A must listen for any leader struggling to translate the excitement of AI into practical, sustainable organisational change.

Show notes

Government AI Skills Framework https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-skills-for-the-uk-workforce

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode(srtfile)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Collaboration for change: The Digital Services Consortium

We chat to Katie Ghose CEO at KIDS and Helen Milner OBE, Group Chief Executive of Good Things Foundation

In this conversation, Zoe and Paul chat to charity leaders Helen Milner OBE and Katie Ghose to discuss the critical importance of digital inclusion, including its impact on disabled children and their families.

Helen and Katie highlight the pioneering work of the Digital Services Consortium, an innovative alliance of twelve charities collaborating to design and deliver essential digital services and support. The discussion delves into the seismic shift caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and how it both accelerated the need for and exposed the severe barriers to technology access faced by marginalised communities.

This episode is a must-listen for all charity and cross-sector leaders, covering:

•

The impact of digital exclusion on mental health and social connections.

•

The significance of charity collaboration and community support in achieving social justice.

•

Practical advice for charity leaders on embedding digital inclusion in their strategies.

•

The crucial role of continuous feedback from users in improving service delivery.

•

A glimpse into the future, exploring the transformative potential of AI and technology in closing the digital divide.

Join us to learn how these leaders are working to ensure a world where everyone can benefit from digital.

Zoe and Paul also discuss AI developments including the UK government’s new AI Skills Framework.

KIDS charity https://www.kids.org.uk/

Digital Services Consortium https://www.kids.org.uk/digital-services-consortium/

Good Things Foundation https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/

Resources from Good Things Foundation:

https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/our-services/national-digital-inclusion-network

https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/our-services/national-databank

Channel 4 Dispatches programme on AI (Guardian story)

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/oct/21/channel-4-first-ai-presenter-dispatches?

Government AI Skills Framework https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-skills-for-the-uk-workforce

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Another Door Opens: How to Navigate Change with Eleanor Tweddell

We speak to Eleanor Tweddell, executive coach, change consultant, keynote speaker and author.

We’re back for our new season with an amazing new episode! We chat to Eleanor Tweddell, executive coach and author of “Another Door Opens: Five Steps for Navigating Change in Life and Work”

Eleanor Tweddell joins Zoe and Paul to explore how leaders can face change with more calm, courage and agency. From building the habit of pause to working with the “change monsters” that derail us, Eleanor shares practical ways to turn micro-shifts into momentum, at work and in life. We also discuss how leaders can communicate well through AI-driven uncertainty without fuelling fear or dependency.

Eleanor is an executive coach, change consultant, keynote speaker and founder of Another Door. After two decades in senior corporate roles, she now helps individuals, teams and organisations navigate transformation with clarity and care. Her new book, Another Door Opens, reframes change as a skill you can practise every day.

Through her grounded, energising approach, Eleanor covers essential lessons for anyone leading (or living) through change:

•

Why good change starts by stopping—and how to make “pause” practical, not indulgent

•

Micro vs. macro change: building “change mastery” with everyday habits that stick

•

Working with the “change monsters”: using regret, procrastination and resistance as data, not drama

•

From anxiety to agency: telling the difference between worthless worry and worth-it worry

•

Leading through AI turbulence: clear comms, healthy boundaries and designing rest into programmes

•

Project cadence that lasts: scheduling step-outs so teams return with fresher thinking and energy

Eleanor’s new book, “Another Door Opens: Five Steps for Navigating Change in Life and Work,” is available now in all good bookshops and online. Paul also mentions Eleanor’s live read-along series covering the book chapter by chapter.

Zoe and Paul discuss tech and AI news, from the recent internet outage to AI veganism and AI psychosis.

Notes

Eleanor’s website - https://www.eleanortweddell.com/

Another Door Opens book - https://www.eleanortweddell.com/another-door-opens

Eleanor’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-tweddell/

Read-along seriessign-up/info

AI psychosis BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c24zdel5j18o

Flesh and Code podcast - https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/jul/14/flesh-and-code-is-an-utterly-jaw-dropping-listen-best-podcasts-of-the-week

AI veganism - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/aug/06/meet-the-ai-vegans

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

We chat to actor, filmmaker and the author of Both Not Half, Jassa Ahluwalia

We're ending our season with something truly special - a transformative conversation with Jassa Ahluwalia that we know will stay with you long after listening.

Jassa is a British actor, writer, filmmaker and trade unionist, known for roles in Unforgotten, Ripper Street, and Peaky Blinders. Born in Coventry to a white English mother and Punjabi father.

His hashtag #BothNotHalf emerged from a viral video and evolved into a movement exploring mixed identity. His TEDx talk "How Language Shapes Identity" has garnered over 200,000 views, and his BBC One documentary Am I English? won an Asian Media Award in 2022.

In our conversation, Jassa shares how that viral Instagram video led to his powerful book Both Not Half: A Radical New Approach to Mixed Identity. This isn't just about personal identity. It’s about revolutionising how leaders create belonging, moving from allyship to solidarity, and why challenging binary thinking is essential for modern organisations.

Three simple words - "Both Not Half" - that could transform how your organisation thinks about identity, belonging, and true inclusion.

As it's our season finale, we've also packed in Paul and Zoe's holiday reading and podcast recommendations to take with you over the break.

We'll be back at the end of summer with fresh episodes, but this conversation will give you plenty to think about until then!

Show notes

Jassa’s work

-Both Not Half: a Radical New Approach to Mixed Heritage Identity https://www.bonnierbooks.co.uk/books/blink-publishing/both-not-half/
-Jassa Ahluwahlia on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/officialjassa/?hl=en
-Jassa’s TEDx Talk: "How Language Shapes Identity" https://youtu.be/SP0bAQ8J6C0?si=HAaxO4SvPtqL6M2R

Summer recommendations

-What Did You Do Yesterday podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/62lFI5XAYb68cSOcOWnDI9
-Rest by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29502354-rest
-Chinese and Any Other Asian by Anna Sulan Masing https://www.weidenfeldandnicolson.co.uk/titles/anna-sulan-masing/chinese-and-any-other-asian/9781399606684/
- An A-Z of Chinese Food (Recipes Not Included) by Jenny Lau https://www.celestialpeach.com/an-az-of-chinese-food-recipes-not-included

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

How Save The Children UK is leading digital change in a volatile world

We chat to Trevor Gordon, Chief Digital & Technology Officer at Save the Children UK

This week we are chuffed to bits to bring you a brand new episode featuring an insightful chat with the brilliant Trevor Gordon, Chief Digital and Technology Officer at Save the Children UK.

Trevor is an award-winning leader in customer-centric digital technology and transformation and recently returned to the charity sector. Get ready for a fascinating discussion on:

•

Urgent Transformation in Charities: Trevor shares why non-profits must accelerate their digital, data, and technology adoption to meet today's challenges.

•

Navigating AI Implementation: How Save the Children UK is swiftly putting AI governance and pragmatic solutions into practice, seeing immediate value.

•

Strategic Partnerships: The critical role of collaborating with tech vendors and peer organisations to drive significant change.

•

Building a Resilient Workforce: Creating a culture where people feel empowered and connected to their purpose, is crucial for retaining talent.

Paul and Zoe discuss the latest, eye-opening insights from Microsoft's 2025 Work Trend Index and the Anthropic CEO's bold predictions about AI's impact on jobs. 2025 is the year to get serious.

Don't miss this inspiring conversation and Trevor's top cocktail recommendations for a well-deserved end-of-week treat!

Show notes

The Microsoft 2025 Work Trend Index

Anthropic's CEO about AI's impact on the job market.https://charteredaccountantsworldwide.com/ai-transformation/

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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Decoding AI: Trust, Ethics, and the Path to Inclusive Innovation

Join Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas on Starts at the Top for a conversation with Steph Wright, Head of the Scottish AI Alliance. In this episode, we delve into the landscape of artificial intelligence, exploring how we can move beyond the hype to build a future where AI is not only innovative but also fundamentally trustworthy, ethical, and inclusive.

Steph brings a diverse perspective to the AI conversation, drawing from a fascinating background that spans astrophysics, the arts, and the third sector. She shares her unique journey and how these varied experiences have shaped her commitment to ensuring AI benefits everyone in society.

In this engaging discussion, Zoe, Paul, and Steph discuss:

•

How Steph's unconventional career path informs her holistic approach to technology and her unwavering belief in the power of diverse perspectives within the AI field.

•

The fundamental importance of embedding ethical considerations and inclusivity at the very core of AI development. Steph challenges the notion of these being secondary concerns, highlighting their crucial role in creating truly beneficial technologies.

•

Why the relentless pursuit of increasingly large and powerful AI models can often overshadow the real-world impact and potential for harm. We discuss the need to shift focus towards tangible value and responsible application.

•

The often-overlooked environmental and social implications of large language models and AI development, including energy consumption and the ethical sourcing of training data.

•

The need for more diverse and dissenting voices to shape AI's future and the impactful work of Diverse AI in fostering a more representative and equitable ecosystem within AI.

•

Advice on where to start, how to prioritise ethical considerations from the outset, and why a deep understanding of your specific challenges should always precede the technological solution.

Zoe and Paul also delve into:

•

A discussion about the Charity AI Task Force's important response to the UK government's AI action plan, underscoring the essential role of civil society organisations in ensuring that AI works for the benefit of all members of society.

•

Insights into a newly released global research report examining the accountancy sector's preparedness for AI adoption, highlighting both the opportunities and the potential challenges.

Charity AI Task Force response to government AI action plan

Chartered Accountants Worldwide - report on accountants and AI Scottish AI Alliance Steph Wright on LinkedIn

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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Leading differently - The AI hype cycle & building inclusive tech

We chat with with Melissa Ezechukwu, digital strategist.

In this episode, Zoe and Paul navigate the current whirlwind of tech trends, starting with the viral AI action figure craze that has dominated LinkedIn feeds. They discuss the online phenomenon, questioning its true value and the potential environmental impact of such widespread use of generative AI. Is this a glimpse into AI's potential to solve global issues or just a fleeting moment of digital self-obsession?

Then, they dive into a long-awaited and insightful conversation with Melissa Ezechukwu, a brilliant freelance digital consultant and strategist. With over 15 years of experience in the tech for good space, Mel shares her motivations for working with non-profits and socially conscious businesses, highlighting her passion for fairness and amplifying the voices of the underserved.

Mel recounts her accidental journey into the digital world, a path that many in the industry will find relatable. Her personal story underscores the challenges and the resilience required, particularly for women of colour, in navigating the often-unseen biases within the tech industry.

Zoe and Paul also explore with Mel the key digital trends impacting charities right now, including the double-edged sword of AI, the potential of automation, and the crucial role of data in creating joined-up and personalised user experiences. They question whether the traditional charity website is facing its twilight years and discuss the importance of thoughtful adoption of new technologies.

The conversation tackles the vital issue of diversity and inclusion in tech, particularly in the development and deployment of AI. Mel shares her insights on the dangers of biased datasets and the urgent need for diverse voices in shaping the future of technology, drawing on her experience with organisations like Global Tech Advocates Black Women in Tech.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

•

The LinkedIn AI action figure trend: playful innovation or environmental concern?

•

Mel's inspiring journey into the tech for good sector and her passion for social impact.

•

The ongoing challenges of resource and siloed working within non-profit digital teams.

•

Key digital trends for charities: AI, automation, and data-driven experiences.

•

The enduring importance of a user-centred and effective charity website.

•

The critical need for diversity and inclusion in tech, particularly in AI development, and the potential dangers of bias.

•

Mel's work with Global Tech Advocates Black Women in Tech and the importance of building supportive networks.

•

Invaluable advice Mel would give to her younger self navigating the tech industry as a woman of colour.

We hope you find this episode as thought-provoking and valuable as we did.

Thank you for tuning in to Starts at the Top. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a 5-star review on your favourite podcast platform – it truly helps us reach more leaders. Share this episode with a friend or colleague who you think would benefit from hearing these important conversations.

Join Zoe and Paul again in a couple of weeks for another episode of Starts at the Top, where we continue to explore what it takes to lead differently.

Show notes

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

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In this episode, we speak with Brian Dow, Chief Executive of Mental Health UK and Deputy Chief Executive of Rethink Mental Illness.

Brian shares insights from Mental Health UK’s 2025 Burnout Report highlighting the concerning rise of stress and burnout, particularly among young professionals, and the growing trust deficit between employers and employees.

Key Takeaways:

•

The Burnout Reality: We explore the alarming statistics on stress and burnout in the UK workplace and the generational differences in how these issues are perceived and managed.

•

Building Trust: Brian discusses the critical role of trust in fostering a healthy workplace culture and offers practical advice on how leaders can build and maintain that trust, especially with younger employees.

•

Co-designing the Workplace: We examine the importance of involving employees in shaping workplace policies and practices to create a supportive and inclusive environment.

•

Leadership and Vulnerability: Brian shares his leadership journey and emphasizes the importance of authenticity, empathy, and modeling positive behavior.

•

The Power of Fun: We discuss the often-overlooked role of fun in building a positive workplace culture and mitigating the risks of toxic environments.

•

Managing Wellbeing: Brian offers practical tips for managing well-being during challenging times, emphasizing the importance of facing challenges head-on.

•

The effects of technology: The episode also touches on the effects of technology and social media on the well-being of younger generations, and how this impacts the workplace.

Inspired by this conversation, Zoe and Paul discuss mental health and the impact of social media and smartphones on children.

Show notes

Mental Health UK’s Burnout Report

Edelman’s Trust Barometer

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode(srt file)

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What Leaders Need to Know: Navigating DEI in Today's Climate

We chat to Srabani Sen OBE, Founder and CEO of Full Colour

Are DEI efforts under threat? In a world where political winds shift and extreme views gain traction, how do leaders champion inclusion? What’s really happening in organisations on the ground? Join Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas as they dive deep with Srabani Sen, founder and CEO of Full Colour, in this powerful and timely episode.

What you'll discover:

•

The evolving landscape of DEI: Srabani unpacks the current geopolitical climate and its impact on EDI programs, revealing the resilience of those committed to change.

•

Beyond the headlines: We explore the lasting effects of recent social unrest and the importance of understanding diverse experiences.

•

Practical strategies for inclusive leadership: Srabani shares actionable advice for organisations of all sizes, from prioritising initiatives to fostering a culture of psychological safety.

•

The future of leadership: Learn how inclusive leadership is the key to navigating the accelerating pace of change and meeting the evolving expectations of stakeholders.

In tech news, Zoe and Paul discuss a recent article about how parents are navigating the use of AI with their children, and how it is influencing their own parenting.

Show Notes

Find out more about Full Colour
Zoe and Paul discussed:

Guardian article on AI and parenting https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/01/parents-children-artificial-intelligence

Tim Cook episode https://www.startsatthetop.co.uk/episodes/tag/Tim+Cook

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.