Tech Won't Save Us

No one is comfortable with police surveillance in the US, which is why there’s a bipartisan backlash to Flock cameras. Jason Koebler joins Paris Marx to discuss the rise of Flock, how their cameras are being pitched by right-wing politicians and police agencies, and how they’re being used to stalk residents from coast to coast.

Jason Koebler is a co-founder of 404 Media and co-host of the 404 Media Podcast.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Order Hyperscale at https://hyperscalebook.com/.
• Join Paris at an upcoming event near you.
• Here’s the latest from Jason on Flock cameras being used to track opposition to the company.
• Cops are hiding their Flock camera searches behind jokes and nonesense to obscure their actions.
• DeFlock is mapping flock cameras.
• Have I Been Flocked? lets people see if their licence plate has been searched.
• No, the anti-Flock movement isn’t Chinese propaganda.

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Hyperscale data centers are not an inevitable infrastructure, but a product of capitalist financialization pushing us further from a livable future. Ingrid Burrington interviews Paris Marx about his new book Hyperscale, discussing the history behind the rise of hyperscale data centers and how companies are obscuring their true social and environmental costs to maximize profits before the overinflated bubble bursts.

Ingrid Burrington is the author of Networks of New York and host of RIP Corp. She’s been writing about internet infrastructure for over a decade, including an 18-story online series for The Atlantic in 2015.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Order Hyperscale at https://hyperscalebook.com/.
• Join Paris at an upcoming event near you.
• Check out some of Ingrid’s writing.
• Check out the episode where Paris chatted with Chris Carlsson.

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Data centers are being approved without proper oversight into their broader impacts, but there are organizations pushing back. Martha Dark joins Paris Marx to discuss her work at Foxglove and how legal challenges against data centers are imposing stronger rules and reframing false narratives from policymakers and Big Tech.

Martha Dark is co-executive director of Foxglove.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Click here to get your first month of Proton Unlimited for just $1.
• Preorder Hyperscale at https://hyperscalebook.com/.
• Join Paris at an upcoming event near you.
• Foxglove is pushing policymakers for stronger data center regulations.
• Data centers are not creating jobs, and policymakers should stop pretending they do.
• The carbon emissions from UK data center development are higher than ExxonMobil.
• Shout out to the organizations Legal Resources Centre and The Housing Assembly based in South Africa

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Brazil’s renewable energy is being exploited to justify unnecessary data center construction. Laís Martins joins Paris Marx to discuss why the renewable energy sector is behind a rise in Brazilian data center development, how this is impacting communities, and the ways this greenwashing is redirecting funding away from more socially progressive projects.

Laís Martins is a technology reporter at The Intercept Brasil.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Preorder Hyperscale to support Paris at Bookshop or find more links at https://hyperscalebook.com/.
• Laís has written about the connection between wind energy and data center construction.
• Laís has written about the social impacts of the renewable energy driven data center build out in Brazil.

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Tech companies are working with the fossil fuel industry to push unnecessary data center projects while misrepresenting the climate impact — and governments are letting it all happen. Ketan Joshi joins Paris Marx to discuss how the data center buildout is driving a surge in fossil fuel investment, and how it’s all playing out in Australia.

Ketan Joshi is a climate writer and data analyst based in Oslo working with climate and environmental groups.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Click here to get your first month of Proton Mail for just $1.
• Preorder Hyperscale to support Paris at https://hyperscalebook.com/.
• Ketan wrote a report on how Big Tech is greenwashing their destructive climate impacts.
• Ketan worked with Greenpeace to put out a report on how NVIDIA is greenwashing to hide their climate impacts.
• Ketan worked with Greenpeace on a report that explores how Australia’s data center buildout is completely derailing their renewable energy transition.

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Paris’ new book Hyperscale: The Ambition and Excess of Big Tech’s Data Empires is coming out in October. To celebrate, we’re revisiting the series that planted the seeds for his deep dive into hyperscale data centers, the communities they’re affecting, and the future Silicon Valley is trying to build. This is episode 4 of Data Vampires, a special four-part series from Tech Won’t Save Us.

The show is hosted by Paris Marx. Original production on Data Vampires was by Eric Wickham. Current production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Preorder Hyperscale to support Paris at https://hyperscalebook.com/.
• Postdoctoral candidate at Case Western Reserve University Émile P. Torres, Vanity Fair tech and business correspondent Julia Black, Goldsmiths University lecturer Dan McQuillan, and former head of the Center for Applied Data Ethics Ali Alkhatib were interviewed for this episode.
• Pieces by Sam Altman, Marc Andreessen, and an interview with Elon Musk were cited.

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Paris’ new book Hyperscale: The Ambition and Excess of Big Tech’s Data Empires is coming out in October. To celebrate, we’re revisiting the series that planted the seeds for his deep dive into hyperscale data centers, the communities they’re affecting, and the future Silicon Valley is trying to build. This is episode 3 of Data Vampires, a special four-part series from Tech Won’t Save Us.

The show is hosted by Paris Marx. Original production on Data Vampires was by Eric Wickham. Current production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Preorder Hyperscale to support Paris at https://hyperscalebook.com/.
• Sustainable AI Group cofounder Sasha Luccioni, Associate Professor in Economics Cecilia Rikap, former head of the Center for Applied Data Ethics Ali Alkhatib, Goldsmiths University lecturer Dan McQuillan, and Director of Research at the Distributed AI Research Institute Alex Hanna were interviewed for this episode.
• Interviews with Sam Altman and Brad Smith were cited.

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Paris’ new book Hyperscale: The Ambition and Excess of Big Tech’s Data Empires is coming out in October. To celebrate, we’re revisiting the series that planted the seeds for his deep dive into hyperscale data centers, the communities they’re affecting, and the future Silicon Valley is trying to build. This is episode 2 of Data Vampires, a special four-part series from Tech Won’t Save Us.

The show is hosted by Paris Marx. Original production on Data Vampires was by Eric Wickham. Current production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Preorder Hyperscale to support Paris at https://hyperscalebook.com.
• People Before Profit TD Brid Smith, Tu Nube Seca Mi Río organizer Aurora Gomez Delgado, and King’s College London lecturer Sebastian Lehuede were interviewed for this episode.
• Some pieces by Dara Kerr in NPR, Sarah Emerson and Emily Baker-White in Forbes, and Hannah Daly in The Irish Times were cited.

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Paris’ new book Hyperscale: The Ambition and Excess of Big Tech’s Data Empires is coming out on October 20. To celebrate, we’re revisiting the series that planted the seeds for his deep dive into hyperscale data centers, the communities they’re affecting, and the future Silicon Valley is trying to build. This is episode 1 of Data Vampires, a special four-part series from Tech Won’t Save Us.

The show is hosted by Paris Marx. Original production on Data Vampires was by Eric Wickham. Current production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Preorder Hyperscale to support Paris at https://hyperscalebook.com.
• Senior cloud consultant Dwayne Monroe and Associate Professor in Economics Cecilia Rikap were interviewed for this episode.
• If you missed it, check out Cecilia Rikap’s latest chat with Paris here and grab her book The Rulers.
• Interviews with Jeff Bezos and The Oregonian journalist Mike Rogoway were cited.

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Not long ago, tech jobs were sought after for their security, benefits, wages, and the progressive values promoted by Silicon Valley companies. But now workers are barely hanging on. Clarissa Redwine and JS Tan join Paris Marx to discuss the state of worker organizing in the tech industry, including how it’s changed since the mid-2010s and where it needs to go from here.

Clarissa Redwine is a tech worker and labor activist. JS Tan is a PhD candidate at MIT and writes the Value Added newsletter. They are the authors of Against Tech Oligarchy: Worker Resistance in the World's Most Powerful Industry.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• You can now pre-order Paris’s new book Hyperscale.
• Learn more about Kickstarter United in Clarissa’s oral history podcast.
• Layoffs in 2026 have surpassed last year.
• Tech workers are pushing back against AI use.
• Paris talked to JS last year about the connection between tech and oil & gas.

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A cult of fascist ideology has gripped Silicon Valley, and the tech industrial complex is threatening US democracy. Gil Durán joins Paris Marx to discuss the radical billionaire cabal that is hellbent on the consolidation of corporate and political power, including the visions they have for the future and the strategies they’re using to drive us there.

Gil Durán is the author of The Nerd Reich: Silicon Valley Fascism and the War on Democracy and writes The Nerd Reich newsletter.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Click here to get your first month of Proton Mail for just $1.
• Gil has written about Paulina Borsook’s prescient warning about tech libertarians from more than twenty years ago.
• Gil has written the foreword for the new edition of Cyberselfish.
• Balaji Srinivasan has moved his commune project to Kazakhstan after being booted from Malaysia.
• Shout-out to friend of the pod Quinn Slobodian, who’s work you can find here. Paris recently talked to Quinn, check out that episode here if you missed it.

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Governments are prioritizing data centers at the expense of communities and the planet, but it doesn’t have to be this way. Matt Haugen joins Paris Marx to discuss how national strategies are dismantling environmental protections while enriching a handful of megacorporations, and what an alternative agenda could look like.

Matt Haugen is Research and Editorial Manager at the Climate and Community Institute.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Check out the new report Matt co-wrote AI First.
• If you missed it, Molly White recently broke down how the tech industry is spending big on elections.
• Big tech’s emissions are continuing to rise.
• Colossus is still being powered by unpermitted gas turbines.

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Canada has tech bros too, like Shopify CEO Tobi Lütke who has a new idea to link voting rights to how much income tax you paid. Rachel Gilmore joins Paris Marx to discuss how Canadian tech companies like Shopify are pushing terrible right-wing policy ideas while influencing Mark Carney’s agenda.

Rachel Gilmore is an award-winning independent journalist and creator of the Bubble Pop newsletter.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Click here to get your first month of Proton Mail for just $1.
• You can now pre-order Paris’s new book Hyperscale.
• Rachel has written about Tobi Lütke’s most recent awful ideas, including why it matters what the Canadian tech elite say.
• Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney appears to be implementing policies for tech oligarchs.
• Press Progress has done reporting on conservative media outlets platforming white nationalists.
• Check out the recent episode Paris did with Hadrian Mertins-Kirkwood for a deeper dive on Canada’s AI policies.

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As Big Tech’s power continues to grow, it's more important than ever to understand how companies use their control over cloud infrastructure and services to shape more than just the digital world. Cecilia Rikap joins Paris Marx to discuss how these networks of corporate power operate, including how they are systematically used to influence global politics, the economy, and how society views the world.

Cecilia Rikap is an Associate Professor at University College London’s Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose and the author of The Rulers: Corporate Power in the Age of AI and the Cloud.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• You can now pre-order Paris’s new book Hyperscale.
• Cecilia and Paris worked on a white paper offering a roadmap to reclaiming digital sovereignty.

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Librarians are working harder than ever to support their neighbourhoods — including by teaching and promoting digital literacy. Hannah Cyrus and Alison Macrina join Paris Marx to discuss the role of library workers in the digital landscape, including how they’re helping patrons navigate privacy basics and artificial intelligence, and how the tech industry is making their jobs harder.

Hannah Cyrus is a digital media librarian at the Bangor Public Library. Alison Macrina is an activist librarian and the director of Library Freedom Project.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Click here to get your first month of Proton Mail for just $1.
• The Library Freedom Project has a ton of resources on critically approaching technology.
• Bangor Daily News wrote about librarians like Hannah helping patrons get AI off their devices.
• Shout out to friend of the pod Brian Merchant and his book Blood in the Machine.
• Learn more about the Luddite Club.
• Learn more about the organization Libraries For The People, working to strengthen and expand libraries.
• Support your local library! Say hello, get a card if you don’t have one, and participate in community events.

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We are often told that resisting technological development is impossible and ‘progress’ is inevitable, but history says otherwise. Thomas Dekeyser joins Paris Marx to discuss how understanding radical resistances of the past can help us rethink our modern relationship with technology and reshape our vision of the future.

Thomas Dekeyser is a lecturer in human geography at the University of Southampton, author of Techno-Negative: A Long History of Refusing the Machine, and co-creator of the documentary Machines in Flames.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• You can now pre-order Paris’s new book Hyperscale.
• Shout out to friend of the pod The Luddite Club.
• This article by Saul Levin and Astra Taylor discusses the growing bipartisan opposition towards data centers.

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Last time it was the crypto industry; now the AI industry is stepping up to join it. Molly White joins Paris Marx to discuss how the tech sector is spending big to buy influence in the US midterm elections to ensure new laws serve its interests over those of the public.

Molly White is the creator of Tech Influence Watch and Web3 is Going Just Great. She writes the Citation Needed newsletter.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• You can now pre-order Paris’s new book Hyperscale.
• Molly just wrote about Trump’s $1.4 billion crypto disclosure.
• Molly wrote about the crypto industry’s recent election spending.
• Molly also wrote about how the Citizens United decision is affecting elections today.

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Public ire toward AI keeps growing as the data center boom continues to hit people’s pockets. Chris Person joins Paris Marx to discuss the soaring cost of consumer electronics, including why prices are unlikely to fall anytime soon, and how people can experiment with homespun cyberpunk tech.

Chris Person is a co-founder of Aftermath and makes Highlight Reel.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• You can now pre-order Paris’s new book Hyperscale.
• Chris mentioned the BC250, an e-waste machine he’s written about recently.
• Chris also wrote a review of the Steam Machine.
• Xbox and Apple both announced price hikes this month.
• Stock prices for memory companies like SK Hynix are hitting record highs.

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As tech companies race to build hyperscale data centers, communities are coming together to push back. Saul Levin joins Paris Marx to discuss how rising opposition to data center construction is uniting people across party lines and prompting broader conversations around what infrastructure people want instead.

Saul Levin is community organizer and host of The Hum.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• You can now pre-order Paris’s new book, Hyperscale: The Ambition and Excess of Big Tech's Data Empires.
• Saul wrote a piece with Astra Taylor about the bigger picture of data center organizing.
• The Seminole Nation in Oklahoma passed a ban on AI data centers on their lands.
• Sam Altman and Gov. Gretchen Whitmer posing together at the site of a new data center drew wide criticism.

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The Canadian government is going all in on AI, without understanding the real effects of the technology. Hadrian Mertins-Kirkwood joins Paris Marx to discuss Mark Carney’s push for large-scale investment in AI, despite being unable to describe how adoption will work, how Canadians will benefit, and what policies will be implemented to mitigate growing risks and harms.

Hadrian Mertins-Kirkwood senior researcher and political economist at the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Kyla Hewson. Support the show on Patreon.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Hadrian wrote about the Canadian government’s new AI strategy.
• Paris wrote about the AI strategy and the new social media policy.
• The Canada Revenue Agency chatbot is expensive and giving incorrect information.
• The Canadian Immigration Department is using AI that hallucinates when reviewing applications.
• AI tools intended for Ontario doctors are providing incorrect information.
• Here’s an overview of the federal AI strategy, “AI for All.”

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