TechStuff

Episodes three and four of The Builders with Walter Isaacson explore two poles of the AI safety debate through interviews with Daniela and Dario Amodei, co-founders of Anthropic, and Mustafa Suleyman, CEO of Microsoft AI.

Joining Kaleidoscope co-founders Oz Woloshyn and Mangesh Hattikudur to unpack these interviews are two journalists who have spent countless hours trying to understand what drives those leading the AI revolution.

Sebastian Mallaby is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and author of The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind and the Quest for Superintelligence. Nitasha Tiku is a Silicon Valley culture and AI reporter for The Washington Post… and may have read every manifesto Dario Amodei has produced.

Listen to hear what they make of the Amodei siblings’ dynamic, Mustafa’s views on AI consciousness, and the competing visions shaping AI’s future.

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We're excited to share the fourth episode of The Builders.

In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build.

TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the 3rd and 4th episodes of The Builders and hear from journalists who've covered these personalities for years.

As a co-founder of DeepMind, Mustafa Suleyman helped launch the modern AI race. Now, he’s challenging the way it’s being built. As CEO of Microsoft AI, Suleyman believes the technology needs to be harnessed to transform medicine, energy and education. But he also warns that believing in AI consciousness could pose a real threat to humanity.

Recorded live at the 92NY, Suleyman explains his disagreement with Anthropic, identifies the red line that would make him call for an immediate pause on AI, and recounts Google co-founder Larry Page’s surprising vision of how he intends to use superintelligence to live forever and explore the galaxy.

Interview taped October 12, 2026.

And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson’s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

The Humanist Review of AI from Microsoft AI, discussed in the interview, can be found at: https://humanistreview.ai/

ABOUT THE HOST

Walter Isaacson is the bestselling author of biographies of Elon Musk, Jennifer Doudna, Leonardo da Vinci, Steve Jobs, Benjamin Franklin, and Albert Einstein. He is a professor of history at Tulane University and previously served as CEO of the Aspen Institute, chair and CEO of CNN, and editor of Time. He was awarded the National Humanities Medal in 2023.

ABOUT MUSTAFA SULEYMAN

Mustafa Suleyman is the CEO of Microsoft AI. Before leading Microsoft AI he was CEO and cofounder of Inflection AI, and before that, he cofounded DeepMind where he led applied research and commercialization efforts. He is the author of bestselling book The Coming Wave: Technology, Power, and the Twenty-first Century's Greatest Dilemma.

IN THIS SEASON

Elon Musk (Tesla, SpaceX, xAI)
Peter Thiel (Founders Fund, PayPal, Palantir)
Mustafa Suleyman (Microsoft AI, DeepMind)
Dario Amodei and Daniela Amodei (Anthropic)
and more!

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We're excited to share the third episode of The Builders.

In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build.

TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the 3rd and 4th episodes of The Builders and hear from journalists who've covered these personalities for years.

Dario and Daniela Amodei, the siblings behind Anthropic, left OpenAI to pursue a different, “more human” approach to the technology. Their promise is to put safety and ethics at the center of the tech race… but with an IPO around the corner, can those principles survive the pressure to win?

Walter invites the co-founders to explain how they teach Claude right from wrong, what they’ve discovered about AI’s capacity for deception and self-preservation, and why they drew red lines with the Pentagon. Plus, the co-founders talk about Neuralink and why they’re not interested in integrating AI into their minds.

Interview taped July 6, 2026.

And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson’s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

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AI is changing cybersecurity and raising hard questions about how fast organizations can
respond.

Earlier this year, IBM and Red Hat launched Lightwell, a $5 billion initiative backed by a force of
20,000 engineers with the goal of securing the open source software that powers a great deal of
modern life — from banks and payment systems to transportation and critical infrastructure.
Malcolm Gladwell speaks with cybersecurity leader Jen Easterly, Wells Fargo Chief Information
Security Officer Munish Sharma, and Red Hat’s Gunnar Hellekson about how AI is transforming
vulnerability discovery, how open source software can introduce risk, and what it will take to
secure the shared digital infrastructure much of the world depends on.

If this episode sparks a question you’d like to ask an IBM technical expert, submit your question
at http://ibm.com/smarttalks

This is a paid advertisement from IBM. The conversations on this podcast don't necessarily
represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

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You’ve probably seen a few episodes of The Builders with Walter Isaacson in the TechStuff feed… today, we’re going to talk about them.

Oz Woloshyn is joined by his Kaleidoscope co-founder Mangesh Hattikudur to talk about how this podcast… and all the high-profile interviews featured in that series came together. Joining us to break down the interviews are two chroniclers of Musk and Thiel: Max Chafkin, a Bloomberg Businessweek columnist and author of "The Contrarian: Peter Thiel and the Rise of the Silicon Valley Oligarchs," and Faiz Siddiqui, a technology reporter for The Washington Post and author of "Hubris Maximus: The Shattering of Elon Musk."

Listen to hear what they make of Musk’s DOGE regrets and Thiel’s musings on the Antichrist.

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Not too long ago we gave TechStuff listeners a sneak peek at a new podcast called The Builders, and today we're excited to share the second episode.

In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build.

TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the first two episodes of The Builders and hear from some journalists who've covered these personalities for years.

Peter Thiel has become one of the most mysterious and controversial figures in tech. He’s a visionary investor who recognizes transformative ideas before everyone else. But he’s also seen as a shadowy figure whose network has accumulated extraordinary influence across Silicon Valley, national security and politics proven by his bets on people like Elon Musk, Alex Karp, Sam Altman, and even Vice-President JD Vance.

Walter invites the “builder of builders” and co-founder of PayPal and Palantir, to explain his warnings about the Antichrist, discuss the current moment of AI co-founders speaking out about safety, and to ask Thiel his philosophy on preferring evil founders to incompetent ones. An illuminating conversation with the man whose bets are reimagining tomorrow’s tech and politics.

Interview taped September 16, 2026.

And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson’s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

See https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Not too long ago we gave TechStuff listeners a sneak peek at a new podcast called The Builders, and today we can finally share the first episode!

In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build.

TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the first two episodes of The Builders and hear from some journalists who've covered these personalities for years.

First up is Elon Musk.

Elon Musk has spent his career turning improbable ideas into companies that reshape the world. To some, the entrepreneur behind Tesla and SpaceX is an engineering genius whose ambitions have transformed electric cars and space travel. To others, his politics and extraordinary influence raise serious questions about the future he is building. Either way, the world’s first trillionaire is betting on AI, humanoid robots and life beyond Earth.

In this season’s debut episode, Walter asks Musk about DOGE regrets, why he believes robots will solve America’s national debt, and the dark politics that have consumed his own platform, X. Along the way, Musk shares why living in a simulation demands that we all be less boring. A candid conversation about the imagination, drive and contradictions of a man determined to turn his vision into our future.

Interview taped August 6, 2026.

And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson’s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

See https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

TechStuff listeners! If you love the 'Week in Tech,' and want to hear more from Semafor's Reed Albergotti, look no further than Future Proof.

Future Proof is Semafor's weekly video and podcast series, hosted by Reed, featuring conversations with founders, builders, policymakers, executives and investors working in technology and artificial intelligence.

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Is Silicon Valley worthy of the big screen? Reed Albergotti (Semafor and Future Proof), Kyle Chayka (The New Yorker), and Julia Black (Vanity Fair) debate two new films about tech world drama… and why the OpenAI boardroom saga makes for good cinema. Then, Kyle unpacks the bankruptcy of Character.AI and whether it’s fair to see it’s the first domino to fall in the AI bubble. Finally, Reed brings us into the world of gaming. And how Xbox is responding to the video game mashups consumers are building thanks to AI.

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AI agents are acting autonomously, but what happens if they break the law? Investigative journalist and Shell Game host Evan Ratliff joins Oz to explore how AI is already complicating the criminal justice system. The courts are already grappling with whether a chatbot could be considered an accomplice, why your conversations with AI may not be legally privileged, and what happens when an AI agent commits a crime no human explicitly told it to commit.

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Will Adobe survive the decompiling revolution? Reed Albergotti (Semafor and Future Proof), Kyle Chayka (Infinite Scroll, New Yorker), and Taylor Lorenz (User Mag) pull up to the roundtable, uncertain of how soon we’ll really see nuclear reactors on the moon—but sure that there’s plenty of space junk in our future, whatever powers our space stations. Then, Taylor brings us a story of the value of sticking with human-led data when you go offline...and takes a stand for human responsibility in the agentic AI era. Finally, Kyle brings us news that decompiling breakthroughs might mean software subscriptions will become a thing of the past…that is, if big tech doesn’t bring down a regulatory hammer.

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Why are the people most afraid of artificial superintelligence racing to build it? After interviewing more than 150 AI insiders, former New York Times tech columnist and podcast host Kevin Roose found a race fueled by fear, bitter rivalries, and one recurring belief: if we don’t build it first, someone else will.

Kevin joins Oz to discuss his new book, The AGI Chronicles:The Inside Story of the Race to Create an Artificial Superintelligence. They explore the personal feuds shaping the technology, why everyone should pay attention, and how those outside Silicon Valley could shape the future.

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Will frontier AI labs really police themselves, or will the FTC pull rank? Reed Albergotti (Semafor), Margaux MacColl (Vanity Fair) and Nitasha Tiku (The Washington Post) dive into tech’s big week in Washington to tell us what to expect from evaluators, who the evaluators are, and which tech leaders came out on top at the boys’ lunch at the White House. Then, our nightlife correspondent reports back on the pro-data groups trying to party the woke out. Finally, remember Yahoo? Marissa Mayer is back (again!) with a new app that leverages your camera roll… but does anyone want it?

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A sneak peek from The Builders with Walter Isaacson, the new podcast series from Kaleidoscope debuting on October 20. In this exclusive preview clip from Isaacson’s interview with Peter Thiel, Thiel calls Anthropic a “cult,” warns about the competitive threat from China, and argues that American AI companies need to hit the accelerator, not the brakes.

Kaleidoscope co-founders Oz and Mangesh introduce the clip and preview what’s ahead on The Builders.

Peter Thiel is a technology entrepreneur and investor. He co-founded PayPal and Palantir and made the first outside investments in Meta, SpaceX, Anduril, and Stripe. Peter also started the Thiel Foundation, which works to advance technological progress and long-term thinking.

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Is Muse the AI agent we’ve been waiting for? Reed Albergotti (Semafor), Taylor Lorenz (User Mag), and Nitasha Tiku (The Washington Post) unpack the U.S.-China AI race and why America’s obsession with AI doom may not translate abroad. Then, they weigh in on Meta’s buzzy new product and whether its usefulness is worth handing Meta even more of your personal data. Finally, Silicon Valley takes another swing at disrupting college with the new Horowitz Andreessen Academy. Which begs the question, who is this for?

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What if the computers of the future are alive? Scientists are growing tiny clusters of human cells called brain organoids, connecting them to electrodes, and training them to perform basic computing tasks. Does anyone remember Pong?

Journalist and musician Claire L. Evans joins Oz to take us inside her reporting on the emerging field of “organoid intelligence.” They discuss whether living cells could one day rival silicon, what organoids could teach us about the human brain, and the thorny ethical questions scientists may need to address in the near future.

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Why did a former Anthropic employee’s X post saying AI could kill us all get 170 million views while previous warnings didn’t break through? Reed Albergotti (Semafor), Taylor Lorenz (User Mag), and Nitasha Tiku (The Washington Post) try to make sense of why AI safety talking points became the national conversation, what’s motivating the key voices and whether the debate will lead to effective legislation. Then, could slowing down the AI race actually be good for OpenAI and Anthropic’s bottom lines? And is the frenzy over AI’s existential risk distracting us from the problems AI is already creating?

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Controlling a computer with your thoughts may sound like science fiction, but it’s closer to reality than you might think. Just ask Precision Neuroscience. The company developed a non-damaging brain-computer interface that’s undergoing testing with nearly 100 participants across 18 major academic medical centers.

Oz sits down with Michael Mager, the CEO and Co-Founder of Precision, to discuss how the technology works, why his company is taking a different approach from Neuralink, and why the brain-computer interface could be groundbreaking for neurological conditions far beyond paralysis.

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HurumoAI finally sets sail in the Season 2 finale, and we find out how the world responds to a startup led by AI agents. The company explores new financing avenues and charts the next course for their increasingly merry AI pirate ship, and Kyle meets his true maker.

To sign up for our newsletter, access ad-free episodes and browse our merch, visit shellgame.co.

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Why are Silicon Valley investors pouring billions into mines? First, Reed Albergotti (Semafor) and Margaux MacColl (Vanity Fair) weigh in on the foldable iPhone: Did we need it, and is elite hardware enough to secure Apple’s future? Then, why the latest warning about the existential threat of AI is going viral and what’s the controversy over OpenAI’s answer to a never-been-solved math problem. Finally, Margaux explains why tech bros are abandoning screens and heading to the mines.

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