The 80/20 Principle

ClioCon takes place October 26 and 27 in Boston. You can watch sessions online for free (see link below). If you register and miss a session you can also watch the recording, so I recommend registering with the link below.

In this episode I discuss why the keynotes will be especially helpful for solo and small firm lawyers, and recommend a few key sessions that will be well worth your time. I also explain how you can participate in a virtual discussion of the conference sessions with other lawyers like you.

Information about conference

Keynotes sessions

• Malcolm Gladwell, "Weak Links, Strong Links: How AI Will Reshape Justice" (closes Day 1, Monday)
• Ethan Mollick, "From Disruption to Opportunity: Embracing the AI Revolution" (opens Day 2, Tuesday)
• Mechele Dickerson, on access to justice and the economics of legal services
• Jack Newton, Clio's CEO, on where Clio is headed

Recommended sessions

• Taking On Clients Who've Already Asked AI (Oct 26)
• How to Automate Your Firm End-to-End as a Solo Practitioner (Oct 26)
• AI in Action: What Early-Adopting Law Firms Have Learned So Far (Oct 26, also virtual)
• Pricing with Confidence: 4 Steps to Charging What Your Work Is Worth, with Molly Kremer (Oct 27, also virtual)
• Promise and Perils in the Judicial Adoption of AI (Oct 27, also virtual)

Resource Links

• ClioCon 2026 (October 26–27, Boston) — https://cliocon.com
• Free virtual ClioCon (register to watch a selection of sessions live or later) — https://cliocon.com/virtual-experience/
• Full ClioCon agenda — https://cliocon.com/agenda/
• The 80/20 Principle (my Substack newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (try it for 30 days for just $1)

Follow and Review:

I'd appreciate if you could drop a review over on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a few seconds and helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

If the 80/20 principle never worked for you, you weren't doing it wrong. You were missing a part never gets discussed. In this episode I cover that part. It has to do with perfectionism, and with whose trial and error you rely on.

Then I show how it works in a free automated scheduling tool many lawyers still resist. Why they resist and how to overcome mental blocks with the 80/20 principle are explained in a way that you'll find surprisingly helpful.

Resource Links

• Calendly (automated scheduling software)
• The 80/20 Principle (my Substack newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd appreciate if you could drop a review over on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a few seconds and helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, Ernie Svenson talks with Greg Siskind, who has practiced immigration law for 35 years and wrote a book about marketing on the internet back in 1996, when that was a peculiar thing for a lawyer to do. Greg says AI reminds him of email more than any other technology wave he's lived through — the web, the cloud, and social media each changed a slice of legal work, while email changed the day-to-day job itself.

They talk about the drafting shift that surprised him most, a 25-page visa petition that used to take two days and now takes 20 to 30 minutes, and about the lawyers who got spooked by the hallucination headlines and won't touch AI even for low-risk work like marketing and firm management. They also get into the ABA's fee opinion, the argument for flat fees, and Greg's new ABA book, "The AI-Ready Law Firm," written for firms with no IT department and no consultant.

Chapters

00:00 Meet Greg Siskind, immigration lawyer and early internet adopter 02:34 Why Nashville in 1994 forced him online 05:21 How technology pulled both of us out of big firms 06:41 Decision trees on steroids, DAPA, and the travel ban apps 09:48 The CoCounsel demo that came before ChatGPT 13:12 Supervised agents and the 25-page petition in 30 minutes 16:07 Running a 1,000-prompt immigration library from inside Claude 20:09 Where lawyers trust AI too much, and where too little 22:40 Writing a book for firms with no IT department 26:33 AI note takers and the Zoom terms-of-service problem 29:13 Formal Opinion 512, fraud, and the push toward flat fees 33:49 Using AI as a brutal writing coach 36:12 Why AI belongs inside your case management system 38:57 Why this wave looks more like email than the web 42:36 What he tells law students about relying on AI

Show Notes

• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)
• Greg Siskind Website
• Greg Siskind Linkedin
• The AI-Ready Law Firm

Follow and Review

I'd appreciate it if you could drop a review over on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a few seconds and helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

A few weeks ago, one of Sarah Persich's clients dropped an AI agent into their Slack workspace. Sarah gave it the criteria her client's intake team is supposed to follow on calls — build rapport, handle objections, gather the right information — and asked it to listen to the recorded calls and grade every person against those criteria.

It came back ten minutes later with work that would have taken weeks by hand.

The tool is Viktor. We spend a good chunk of this episode on it, because it runs inside Slack or Teams and it's proactive. It doesn't wait to be asked.

But the tool isn't the whole story. Sarah calls herself a fractional integrator, and it's a role many small firms need without knowing what to call it. Which means they never go looking for one.

We talk about where Zapier still fits, why connecting Claude to your email and calendar matters more than it sounds, and where I'd draw the line on giving AI access to your browser.

Chapters

00:00 The tool that graded weeks of intake calls in ten minutes 02:17 From law firm employee to the "automation lady" 03:34 Why an automation request is usually a systems problem 07:04 What a fractional integrator does, and where the name came from 09:29 Where Zapier still fits now that AI has caught up 13:21 Claude, MCP connections, and the browser access red flag 17:31 Why connecting email and calendar is the real shift 19:31 Meet Viktor, the autonomous agent living in Slack 21:31 Grading every intake call and catching leads that slipped 25:48 Acting without approval, proactive nudges, and what it costs 31:22 Why firms under ten lawyers need this role, and how to reach Sarah

Resource Links

• Automation Lady
• Zapier
• Make
• Granola
• Filevine
• Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd appreciate it if you could drop a review over on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a few seconds and helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

Carolyn Elefant has been practicing law for thirty-five years and writing about solo practice for almost as long. In this episode she and Ernie get into how AI is changing litigation — not in theory, but in the cases she's handling right now.

Carolyn walks through experiments she's run and posted publicly, including having AI draft the judge's opinion from both briefs before she wrote her reply, and hiding instructions inside a brief to see which AI tools would follow them. One tool refused. One followed them. The third declined the part it considered unethical and went along with the part it considered harmless — which is the interesting one, because it looks a lot like judgment.

They also cover which tools she reaches for and when, why she pays for the business version instead of the free one, where a lawyer should start if all of this feels overwhelming, and her upcoming 'Bellwether AI Litigator' conference on September 17 and 18.

Chapters 0:05 Episode Overview 1:45 Smith.ai Sponsor 2:30 A Small Firm That Fights Big Energy 7:09 Her First AI Experiments 10:46 Making AI Write the Judge's Opinion 12:59 The Prompt Injection Test 14:44 When AI Starts to Look Like Judgment 17:38 Connecting Claude to Email, Files, and Court Listener 25:02 Where a Lawyer Should Start 27:02 Free vs. Paid, and What Happens in Discovery 28:35 The Bellwether Litigator Conference

Resource Links

• The Bellweather AI Litigator Conference info
• Early Bird Registration (special price)
• Carolyn's LinkedIn profile (follow her from here)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd appreciate if you could drop a review over on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a few seconds and helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, Ernie Svenson talks with Docket Drafter co-founder Tommy Eberle about what lawyers need to understand to use AI tools like Claude more effectively. They unpack why Word documents consume so many tokens, why AI performance can decline during long chats, how context windows and compaction affect results, and when to use different Claude models and thinking levels.

Tommy also explains how lawyers can use AI to organize files, automate repetitive document work, and build more efficient workflows—without needing to become programmers themselves.

Chapters

0:05 Why AI Frustrations Make Sense 3:03 From Coding To Legal AI 8:05 Making Word Agent-Friendly 16:20 Why Claude Gets Dumber 26:21 Models, Thinking, And Compaction 34:33 Files, Folders, And Better Prompting

Show Notes

• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)
• Tommy Eberle's LinkedIn page
• Tommy's Email Address: tommy@docketdrafter.com
• Docket Drafter
• https://www.youtube.com/@DocketDrafter

Follow and Review

I'd appreciate it if you could drop a review over on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a few seconds and helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

Most lawyers using Claude are only scratching the surface of what it can do. In this episode, Ernie Svenson talks with former litigator and software founder Nick Chapleau about using Claude as more than a chatbot—as a chief of staff that can help run a modern law firm.

They explore email triage, workflow automation, firm knowledge bases, custom dashboards, security, and what it takes to build a truly Claude-native practice.

Chapters

0:05 Using Claude as Chief of Staff 2:34 Nick's Legal and Software Background 8:07 Building a Claude-Native Law Firm 14:55 Automating Email and Firm Workflows 19:54 Creating a Central Firm Wiki 31:06 Hosting, Security, and Implementation

Resource Links

• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review

I'd appreciate it if you could drop a review over on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a few seconds and helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

Most AI training for lawyers is shiny-object stuff — nine prompts, the "ultimate playbook" — and that's exactly why none of it sticks. My old golf instructor figured this out decades ago, and he taught me the fix before AI even existed.

In this episode I tell that story and show you the one approach that actually works when you're learning to use AI in your practice. It's slower than chasing the next shiny thing, but it's the only thing that's ever worked.

Resource Links

• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd appreciate if you could drop a review over on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a few seconds and helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

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Ernie Svenson sits down with complex litigation attorney Richard Serpe to explore how he went from struggling with AI basics to becoming an advanced user in just 18 months. Richard shares how he uses tools like Claude, Perplexity Computer, NotebookLM, and AI skills to manage complex cases, organize research, prepare witnesses, and build better legal workflows.

They also discuss the real costs of agentic AI, why file structure matters, how lawyers can avoid getting locked into one platform, and why curiosity may be the most important skill for adopting AI in legal practice.

Chapters

*]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-(--header-height)" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "c9c2e10c-c222-4dda-96fc-a25e253f5f32" data-testid= "conversation-turn-1" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="user"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:b3210431-d026-4045-b30d-b7c09679a93c-2" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant">

0:07 Richard's AI Journey 4:26 Early AI Friction 9:25 File Structure And Memory 15:34 Perplexity Computer Costs 26:17 Skills In Claude 35:57 Final AI Adoption Advice

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, we cover Perplexity—what it is, how it works, and why it deserves attention from solo and small firm lawyers. Ernie explains how Perplexity differs from traditional Google research by using AI to search the live web, synthesize answers, and provide footnoted citations so lawyers can quickly verify the sources behind the response.

You'll also hear practical examples of how lawyers are using Perplexity to research opposing counsel, evaluate expert witnesses, get oriented in unfamiliar areas of law, and test assumptions with sourced answers. Whether you are new to AI research tools or already using ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini, this episode gives you a clear foundation for understanding where Perplexity fits—and why the next episode's conversation with Richard Serpe will make much more sense.

Chapters

*]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-(--header-height)" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "c9c2e10c-c222-4dda-96fc-a25e253f5f32" data-testid= "conversation-turn-1" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="user"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:b3210431-d026-4045-b30d-b7c09679a93c-2" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant">

0:05 Perplexity Episode Overview 1:17 Smith AI Sponsor 2:49 Perplexity Basics 4:35 AI Landscape Comparison 6:27 Lawyer Use Cases 8:00 Paid Features 8:59 Perplexity Computer Preview 10:08 Inner Circle Invitation

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

*]:pointer-events-auto [content-visibility:auto] supports-[content-visibility:auto]:[contain-intrinsic-size:auto_100lvh] R6Vx5W_threadScrollVars scroll-mb-[calc(var(--scroll-root-safe-area-inset-bottom,0px)+var(--thread-response-height))] scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:209964d7-bb1a-4960-b41a-618e44294208-1" data-testid= "conversation-turn-4" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant">

In this episode, we talk with tax litigator Brandon Siegal about why Microsoft Copilot has gone from a disappointing experiment to a genuinely useful AI tool for legal work. We unpack what changed with Microsoft's latest updates, including direct Word editing, deeper research capabilities, and new ways to connect AI with the documents and systems lawyers already use every day.

You'll also hear Brandon explain his "braiding" approach—combining multiple AI tools so they strengthen each other's output—and why he believes Google Gemini remains one of the most overlooked options for lawyers. Whether you are testing Copilot, comparing AI platforms, or building a smarter workflow, this conversation offers practical ideas for getting more value from the tools available right now.

Chapters

*]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-(--header-height)" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "c9c2e10c-c222-4dda-96fc-a25e253f5f32" data-testid= "conversation-turn-1" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="user"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:b3210431-d026-4045-b30d-b7c09679a93c-2" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant">

0:05 Copilot Skeptic To Believer 2:00 Brandon's AI Journey 7:18 Wave 3 And Word Editing 13:02 Braiding Multiple AI Tools 14:46 Deep Research And Cowork23:54 Why Gemini Stands Out

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, we explore why a long-time ChatGPT user made the switch to Claude and what ultimately drove that decision. We break down how features like direct file access, structured project workflows, and custom skills are transforming the way lawyers handle complex, document-heavy work. You'll hear how AI can dramatically speed up tasks like course creation, improve writing quality, and act more like a true thinking partner. Whether you're new to AI or already using it in your practice, this episode highlights how choosing the right tool—and setting it up properly—can unlock a whole new level of productivity.

Chapters

*]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-(--header-height)" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "c9c2e10c-c222-4dda-96fc-a25e253f5f32" data-testid= "conversation-turn-1" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="user"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:b3210431-d026-4045-b30d-b7c09679a93c-2" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant">

0:05 Why I Switched AI Tools 1:10 Sponsor: Smith AI Overview 2:25 Claude Co-Work Feature 4:10 Building Courses With Claude 7:05 Training Claude & Turning Point 9:30 Skills Feature For Lawyers 12:10 Final Thoughts & Recommendation

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, we explore how lawyers can adapt to rapid AI advancements by shifting from billable hours to outcome-based, flat-fee services. We'll discuss creating a better client journey, using AI to improve research efficiency, and offering privileged, flat-fee AI-driven legal searches as a way to stay relevant and attract clients.

Chapters

00:00 Breaking Free from the Billable Hour

05:04 The Shift Towards Client-Centric Outcomes

10:24 Leveraging AI for Legal Services

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, we'll examine how AI has made recording conversations effortless—and why that convenience poses legal, ethical, and moral challenges for lawyers. We'll break down the risks of passive and stealth recording, including issues around consent, biometric privacy laws, and client trust. And you'll get simple, practical tips for using recording tools transparently while maintaining professionalism and integrity.

Chapter Markers

0:00 Brooke's Legal Industry Background 1:09 Understanding Law Firms as Businesses 2:30 EOS and the Three Buckets 3:09 Becoming an EOS Implementer 6:06 The Six Pillars of EOS 10:04 Handling Toxic High Performers 13:50 Cash Flow Forecasting Basics 16:13 Six Key Numbers to Track 20:24 Owner Compensation & Firm Growth 23:13 Mindset Blocks Around Money 24:42 Hiring Smart vs. Cheap 27:24 Smart Outsourcing Strategies 29:33 Leveraging AI in Law Firms 31:16 EOS Implementation Resources

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, we'll examine how AI has made recording conversations effortless—and why that convenience poses legal, ethical, and moral challenges for lawyers. We'll break down the risks of passive and stealth recording, including issues around consent, biometric privacy laws, and client trust. And you'll get simple, practical tips for using recording tools transparently while maintaining professionalism and integrity.

Chapter Markers

0:00 The Rise of Frictionless Recording 1:00 AI Tools Enable Passive Recording 2:30 Why Lawyers Record Conversations 4:00 Legal Risks of AI Recordings 5:00 Biometric Privacy and AI Tools 6:30 Ethical and Client Trust Issues 7:20 Moral Implications of Covert Recording 8:30 Practical Recording Best Practices 9:45 Transparency, Sharing, and Final Thoughts

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, Ernie explains how the American Arbitration Association is now using AI to draft decisions, subject to human review. The discussion covers the importance of transparency, control, and human oversight in the arbitration process, as well as the potential for AI to improve access to justice by making dispute resolution faster and more cost-effective.

Key Takeaways

• AI is not about replacing humans but enhancing their capabilities.
• The American Arbitration Association is pioneering AI in legal disputes.
• AI can draft decisions, but humans retain final authority.
• Transparency and control are crucial in the arbitration process.
• Party validation ensures fairness and understanding in disputes.
• Governed AI operates within strict guidelines to ensure accuracy.
• The system learns from human edits to improve over time.
• Speed and cost savings are significant benefits of AI arbitration.
• AI can open doors to justice for underserved populations.
• This technology may signal a fundamental shift in legal processes.

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• Apply to join the AI Lab
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

Show Notes

In this podcast episode, Ernie Svenson interviews Dorna At Gavel, a former attorney turned tech entrepreneur, about her journey in creating Gavel, a legal technology platform. Dorna shares her experiences in building Gavel Workflows and Gavel Exec, tools designed to automate document creation and enhance legal drafting with AI. The conversation explores the integration of these tools with Microsoft Word, the importance of user experience, and the future of AI in the legal field. Dorna addresses common misconceptions about AI, the concept of 'vibe lawyering,' and how these technologies can empower lawyers to focus on more meaningful work while improving efficiency.

Takeaways

• Dorna transitioned from law to tech to help domestic violence survivors.
• Gavel Workflows automates document creation for legal professionals.
• Gavel Exec serves as an AI copilot within Microsoft Word.
• The platform is designed to enhance collaboration and efficiency.
• AI tools can help lawyers focus on higher-level tasks.
• Misconceptions about AI include fears of job loss in the legal field.
• Vibe lawyering encourages creative legal thinking with AI assistance.
• Training junior associates can be streamlined using AI playbooks.
• Gavel Exec integrates with existing workflows to improve productivity.
• The future of legal practice will likely include AI as a standard tool.

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

Show Notes

In this episode, Ernie discusses the impact of AI on the legal profession, emphasizing that while AI may replace surface-level tasks, the best lawyers will thrive by focusing on deeper, strategic thinking and understanding complex legal outcomes.

Takeaways

• The best lawyers won't just survive this wave of AI. They're gonna dominate.
• If your work is mostly surface level, AI is gonna replace you.
• To remain indispensable, focus on outcomes and hidden risks.
• Understanding the chessboard of legal scenarios is crucial.
• Lawyers must evolve their skills to adapt to AI advancements.
• AI should be seen as a tool, not a replacement.
• Strategic thinking is key in the legal profession.
• The future of law requires innovation and adaptation.
• Surface-level tasks can be automated, but deeper insights cannot.
• Indispensable lawyers will thrive in the AI era.

Resource Links

• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

In this episode, California attorney Jeff Lewis and I discuss the recent Clio conference that took place in Boston, which we both attended along with 2,700 other lawyers.

There was a lot of discussion about AI and how its growing adoption will impact lawyers in the coming years. We of course will discuss Richard Susskind's Keynote speech, which was a disturbing warning about the massive disruption AI is likely to bring to the legal profession. Jeff called it a "gut punch" and you'll want to hear why he found Susskind's speech so unsettling.

Topics Discussed

• Clio's New AI Tools and Integration Plans
• The Legal Trends Report and Data Insights
• Clio's 1$ Billion V-Lex Acquisition and what it means
• Peggy Gruenke's KPI Session Takeaways
• Richard Susskind's take on AI and the Future of Law
• AI Adoption Challenges and Lawyer Resistance
• Future of Legal Careers and AI Skills
• Lawyer Reactions to Susskind's AI Predictions

Resource Links

• Ernie's LinkedIn post summarizing Susskind's speech
• Jeff Lewis's law firm website
• Jeff's legal podcast
• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.

What if you could run a thriving 40-person law firm entirely from your smartphone? In this episode, attorney Elise Buie—known as "The Smartphone Lawyer"—shares how she scaled her Seattle-based family law practice through radical delegation, smart systems, and the strategic use of virtual assistants. From hiring and managing overseas talent to automating key workflows, Elise reveals how she built a firm that operates seamlessly, even when she's halfway around the world.

She also breaks down the mindset shifts lawyers need to overcome perfectionism, embrace technology, and trust others to get things done. Whether you're a solo practitioner or managing a growing team, you'll learn how to delegate more effectively, streamline your operations, and create a practice that supports your life—not the other way around.

Topics Covered

• Overview of Elise's Practice
• Using Virtual Assistants for 24/7 Support
• The Power of Delegation
• Overcoming Perfectionism and Letting Go
• Delegating Personal Life Tasks
• How to Start Delegating and Write SOPs
• Focusing on High-Value Work
• Running a Law Firm from a Smartphone
• Slack as a Central Command Hub
• Why Elise's Firm Pays for Slack
• Key Apps: Clio, Dropbox, and Payroll Tools
• Using Loom for Communication
• AI Note-Taking and Granola Recommendation
• Hiring and Onboarding Virtual Assistants
• Filipino Virtual Assistants and Firm Culture
• Addressing Privacy and Security Concerns
• How Elise's Firm Uses AI
• Final Advice: Delegate Everything You Can

Resource Links

• Elise's firm website
• Elise's LinkedIn page
• Elise's email address: elisebuie@gmail.com
• Granola AI notetaking tool
• AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers)
• The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter)
• The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers)

Follow and Review:

I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai

Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish.

And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.