The Best People with Nicolle Wallace

Heather Cox Richardson finds clarity in retrospection. “What we learn in the future will change the way we think about the past,” says the author and Boston College history professor. Reflecting on the devolution of political ideology in a post-MAGA United States, the author of the “Letters from an American” Substack series brings in lessons from American history to help contextualize the current state of the nation ahead of the midterms. She draws from an idea that Americans seem to have “lost” since Reagan’s presidency — a determination to mend the government to fit the needs of its constituents. As Election Day looms and President Trump’s priorities seem more and more out of touch with the needs of everyday Americans, Richardson encourages us to exercise the right to change our government when it no longer works to serve us: “The Constitution literally begins, ‘we the people,’ and we have the right to vote. Instead of being afraid to vote, we should make them afraid to stop us from voting.”

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Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels earned their stripes in different worlds before joining forces: Sanders Townsend as a former campaign communications advisor and Counsel to the Vice President and Daniels a lifelong journalist and former president of the White House Correspondents Association. Yet, they arrive at today’s polarized political climate similarly: hardened, but hopeful. Believing that unity is the way to combat a polarized political climate, the hosts of MS NOW’s “Clock It” podcast join Nicolle to discuss all things midterms: El-Sayed's low polling with Black voters, Talarico fever in Texas, and could the senate seat in Mississippi... be in play for Democrats? All three MS NOW colleagues talk about the best version of America they’ve seen under Trump 2.0, exemplified by the Minneapolis ICE protests and the “No Kings” marches — times where we rely on community to propel us forward. “There is a world where selfishness is not the way you have to operate in your daily lives” says Daniels. “The only way to do that is to hold hands and jump together.” And Sanders Townsend agrees: “We're the people, it is literally on us,” she says. “History is gonna record that we made a difference.”

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Dana Bash has covered enough elections to know how consequential this one could be. Coming off the release of her new book, “The Elections That Changed the World,” the host of Inside Politics and co-anchor of CNN’s “State of the Union” talks to Nicolle about some of America’s most pivotal moments, reflecting on her experience covering presidencies before President Trump polarized the two-party system beyond recognition. “What makes me sad about the Trump era,” she says, “is that my son doesn’t understand that this is not the way politics used to be.” The longtime friends reminisce about a different political climate, recalling John McCain’s emotional 2008 concession speech from their different vantage points: Nicolle backstage with the campaign and Bash covering it for CNN. They also discuss the unique challenge of holding power to account in the Trump era, such as how Bash prepared for her contentious interview with RFK Jr., and look ahead to the upcoming midterms in a time where every election feels like “the most consequential” of our lifetime.

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Doc Rivers knows ball. The former NBA player and title-winning coach (Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Clippers, Milwaukee Bucks) believes that America is overdue for a true reckoning — and that the moment is now. “We're having more difficult conversations now than we ever had,” he tells Nicolle. Drawing parallels between basketball and the nation that built the game, Rivers likens America in the second Trump presidency to a divided team, encouraging us to fiercely participate in democracy in order to save it. “You have to try to put yourself out to make the team better as a whole,” he says. Now retired and removed from the day-to-day grind of the court, Rivers reflects on attacks on the press, a lackluster education system and threats to voting rights ahead of the midterms. But given all that, he makes it a point to stay outspoken — and hopeful. “I always think this country survives everything,” he says. “And it's going to survive this — but we gotta do it together.”

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Aaron Sorkin is acutely aware of the criticism that his work is too optimistic — and with “The Social Reckoning,” he’s doubling down. “I just like when an audience feels two inches taller than they did when they walked in,” he tells Nicolle. The Oscar-and-Emmy award-winning writer and director has inspired countless political hopefuls with “The West Wing,” including Nicolle, who envisioned a place for herself in the White House after watching Allison Janney’s portrayal of Press Secretary C.J. Cregg. Sorkin follows up 2010’s “The Social Network” by assessing Facebook in the age of Trump: telling the story of whistleblower Frances Haugen’s decision to release internal documents surrounding misinformation and potential harms from the platform, alongside a now older Mark Zuckerberg as he reckons with the power of the technology he’s created. Sorkin chose to intentionally release the movie prior to the upcoming midterms — knowing that, if there’s a moment for optimism, it’s right now.

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If Michael Lewis has a superpower, it’s the ability to make anything — even the most esoteric subject — interesting. Now, one of the country’s biggest nonfiction writers is tackling Elon Musk, DOGE, his attempts to gut the federal government — and the public servants who resisted him. In “Blockers," named after Musk’s term for the public servants who pushed back against DOGE, Lewis puts the spotlight on six unsung heroes of the federal bureaucracy who did what they could to save the agencies they served. Speaking to Nicolle, Lewis says that “it’s a miracle” these people chose to do the jobs they do, and that DOGE ended up being a “great distraction” that caused chaos and allowed Donald Trump to seize control of the government. Lewis says he wants us to pay attention to the stories of these federal employees because they remind us of our "better selves."

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Judge Esther Salas knows what it’s like to overcome a dark moment. On July 19th, 2020, the U.S. district judge suffered a devastating loss: a man who had been a plaintiff in her court years prior murdered her only son and severely injured her husband. Speaking with Nicolle about the state of the country amidst growing political violence and President Trump’s charged rhetoric against judges, Judge Salas says she thinks America could learn from her personal experience: “Norms have been broken, rules have been shattered,” she observed. “But just like we’ve done in the past, we’re gonna pick up the pieces.” With an unbending belief in the sanctity of the American justice system and a willingness to forgive, Judge Salas teaches us rebuilding is possible, even at its most daunting.

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Anthony Scaramucci has stories to tell. He joins Nicolle for this special episode as part of the new “Nicolle Wallace Presents: 92NY on MS NOW” series to discuss the roots of our political divisions: the uniquely American conditions that allowed Trump to ascend to the nation’s highest office. The two former White House communications directors discuss Scaramucci’s new book, “All the Wrong Moves,” his 11-day tenure at the Trump administration and the path forward and away from this difficult moment. “I think it will end in darkness for Donald Trump,” he says. But “it'll end with a brighter horizon for America — cause we're gonna fix this.”

“Nicolle Wallace Presents: 92NY on MS NOW” will bring conversations from the 92nd Street Y in Manhattan to MS's weekend lineup. The series will feature conversations led by Nicolle and Rachel Maddow with figures including Robert Downey Jr., Ari Emanuel, and Malcolm Gladwell. Tune in Sunday, October 4th at 8pm ET to catch the first episode.

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Pete Buttigieg thinks this is a “make-or-break” moment in American politics. As Americans continue to struggle economically and President Trump’s focus seems elsewhere, the former US Secretary of Transportation argues that the moments in history that were the hardest "mattered the most,” asserting that “the 2020’s are gonna be remembered like that.” Buttigieg looks ahead to what he’d like to see if Democrats take control of government after the midterms, including a big one: Supreme Court reform. He also hopes there will be accountability from Pete Hegseth for the ways in which the Iran War has affected America’s international reputation, and for Marco Rubio to answer for lying to Congress about the devastating impacts of gutting USAID. Above all else, however, Buttigieg’s call is for everyday citizens: “The biggest, most important thing you get to do is vote.”

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Meet the man who just won the first round in one of the biggest First Amendment fights in years. Ted Boutrous Jr. has been the lawyer behind some of the cases that have made history in recent years: from the fight for marriage equality to then-CNN correspondent Jim Acosta’s lawsuit to get his press badge back when the Trump White House revoked it in 2018. Now, he’s representing CNN, Politico and MS NOW after Donald Trump revoked the press credentials of their journalists over coverage he didn’t like. Nicolle spoke with Boutrous just after a judge ordered the Trump administration to restore the press access of the three outlets. Boutrous told Nicolle that revoking White House access for three news organizations is “like nothing we’ve ever seen before” — and that in this moment, it’s more important than ever to “hold the line” in the fight for press freedom.

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John Heilemann thinks it’s time for America to change the channel on President Trump. The “Impolitic” podcast host and chief political columnist at Puck sees the Commander for what he is: a “loser” for the Republican party using the White House as a “giant profit-making self-enrichment grift.” He and Nicolle discuss Trump’s various attempts to interfere with American elections, reflect on “Game Change” — the Heilemann co-penned book that was turned into a 2012 film starring Sarah Paulson as Nicolle Wallace — and reminisce about their time together on-air. They also discuss exponentially growing technological threats as AI figureheads begin sounding the alarm about their own products and discuss how, ironically, this could be the nonpartisan issue to mend a divided political climate. “I think it’s going to reshape our politics,” says Heilemann, noting that, for all of its terrifying implications, “it’s an enormous opportunity, politically” for whoever can take the lead.

A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at http://ms.now/together.

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Dan Harris knows that the most important fight is the one happening within. Reflecting on his journey of self-regulation, the former ABC anchor recalls a news report on Good Morning America on a warm June morning in 2004 where he — very publicly — had a panic attack live on-air. It was a huge wake up call for Harris, he says. “I realized I needed to change my life.” More than two decades later, the “10% Happier” podcast host joins Nicolle days after the debut of his two new series: MS NOW’s “The Week in Sanity” and “Never Worry Alone.” They discuss the benefits of meditation, argue against the toxicity of modern wellness culture and assert that despair is one of the enemies of democracy. In an anxious and polarized political climate, Harris encourages people to lean on each other, noting that “trying to do it alone is a really reliable route to suffering.” In fact, if salvation exists from pessimism about the future, it’s in the form of love. “When you do good, it feels good.”

“The Week in Sanity” and “Never Worry Alone” are available to MS NOW Members. Become an MS NOW Member by visiting http://ms.now/membership.

A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at http://ms.now/together.

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Julia Curlee brings stories of a remarkable career, recounting her time as a CIA analyst and as an intelligence briefer for Vice President Mike Pence. She begins, however, by talking about the most “unremarkable” aspects of her tenure: up until she was fired in 2025 by the Trump administration for being transgender, Curlee recalls a tolerant government and a good working relationship with Pence. The former Vice President “used the intelligence community the way it was designed,” she tells Nicolle, as opposed to some current intelligence personnel who concern themselves only with “providing the president with information that he wants to hear.” She points to this shift as one of many examples of how the second Trump term is exponentially more dangerous than the first, addressing the United States’ declining international reputation amidst the war in Iran and the ways in which the government uses internal division as a tool to distract from their failure to improve the lives of Americans. And still, she refuses to stand down in the fight to preserve democracy: “This is my country, too.”

Here is Julia’s piece in The Atlantic: The Wrong Kind of American

A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at http://ms.now/together.

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This week, we’re revisiting an episode we recorded back in May with MSNOW’s own Chris Hayes. Please enjoy! We’ll be back with a new episode next week.

Chris Hayes’ antidote to anxiety is always curiosity. Whether on TV with "All In," on his podcast (aptly named “Why Is This Happening?”), or writing about our waning attention spans in his latest book, he looks to make sense of this era’s firehose of information by seeking out the reasons behind the very human decisions we make. This curiosity prompted a deep dive series on his podcast into artificial intelligence: "The AI End Game," tracing AI's evolution to how it will impact our democracy and what guardrails need to be applied. This week, Chris joins Nicolle to talk about how Democrats can rebuild faith in government in a “low trust” democracy, what we can learn from our political past “while not being obsessed with it and trapped in it” and what deeper questions we should be asking about AI. And in his search to understand this technology, he discovered an unintended source of inspiration because “it brings us back in some ways to what we find beautiful and thrilling about being human.”

Search "Why Is This Happening? The Chris Hayes Podcast" to listen to the full series, "The AI End Game."

A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at http://ms.now/together.

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Tim Miller has some ideas about how Democrats can seize this moment as President Trump’s poll numbers continue to decline. A GOP strategist turned never-Trumper, the host of “The Bulwark Daily” podcast now commits himself to dispelling the MAGA myth full time. “Hopefully, that ripples out in a way that’s useful,” he says. He and Nicolle identify a shift in Trump’s more casual supporters, as the manosphere sours on the president and Tim hears MAGA focus group participants acknowledge that Trump “doesn't seem like he's focused on me at all." Miller also challenges center-left Democratic politicians to identify which faults of the party allowed Trump to win a second term (“What’s on your red hat?”). Looking to the midterms and the start of the presidential race next year, Miller says that the “scariest” half of the Trump presidency lies ahead — and we’ll need to stay sharp. “Take a vacation,” he tells Nicolle. “We’re gonna have so much work to do.”

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Tim Snyder sees through the myth of President Trump’s strength. “He’s not actually strong,” the “On Tyranny” author and historian tells Nicolle, likening the Commander in Chief to the smoke and mirrors that build up the image of the Wizard of Oz. “He’s not actually even that good at being corrupt.” As a scholar of autocracies and failed experiments in democracy, Snyder expresses his disappointment with the American disposition that freedom is guaranteed “because it’s America,” telling Nicolle that we make ourselves more vulnerable by assuming that this democracy will continue to thrive on its own. It must be protected and fought for, he argues — and Americans must take hold of the story, even if it’s uncomfortable. Stressing the importance of the midterms, his advice to voters is to act and engage: “[Trump] only wins if everybody thinks they can do nothing,” he says. “If everybody — or even most people — think that they can do a little bit, it's game over.”

A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at http://ms.now/together.

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Marc Elias is adamant: what’s dangerous in this era is that many people think President Trump’s second term is just business as usual. As the administration works to undermine fair elections ahead of the midterms, the chair of Elias Law Group and founder of “Democracy Docket” joins Nicolle to analyze Trump’s tactics — and why the Democratic party needs to stop operating on the “presumption that there is good faith” on the opposing team. In Elias’ telling, “Democrats need to be the party that is fighting corruption, is fighting the restriction of the [voting] franchise, is fighting for people to be able to influence their government.” And while he’s concerned over what a post-midterm Trump administration might unleash, Elias makes it clear that once Trump leaves office, he won’t let the president's allies forget their mistakes — and he believes the world won’t either.

A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at ms.now/together.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People."

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Brian Driscoll doesn’t have to be a “hopeful guy” — and yet, he is. A year ago, he was fired as acting director of the FBI after resisting demands to hand over the names of agents who worked on January 6 insurrection investigations. Now, the career special agent joins Nicolle to reflect on his decades-long tenure at the department and the state of the FBI under its current leadership. “The American people deserve better than any agenda can offer,” he says. “They deserve selfless service.” He talks candidly about the events leading up to his firing, the infamous clerical error that led to his promotion as acting head of the bureau and the “devastating” political retribution campaign carried out by the Trump administration against veterans of the agency. Still, Driscoll believes his former colleagues “will not fall into complacency” and stands firm on the fact that — once the fog created by the second Trump term has cleared — countless exiled public servants are standing by, ready to rebuild.

A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at http://ms.now/together.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People."

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Sue Gordon is indefatigable. Nicolle calls her a “unicorn”: a rare case of somebody who served with honor and integrity as the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence — and who Donald Trump, at least for a while, kept around. “I am for America,” Gordon says, declaring that as her North Star. Throughout her decorated career in intelligence, Gordon has always understood that telling the truth is imperative in keeping the president informed and the nation safe. She talks bluntly about the administration putting innocent people in harm’s way in Iran, calls Jay Clayton’s refusal to state that Joe Biden won the 2020 election during his confirmation hearing “100% disqualifying” and points to Trump being “more cruel” in his second term. She does not believe, however, that the president cannot be reasoned with. Taking a beat, she says: “Maybe I need to call him.”

A Note to Listeners: As the 2026 midterm elections heat up, MS NOW is headed to the Lone Star State. Join more than a dozen of your favorite hosts - including Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Jen Psaki, Michael Steele, Ali Velshi and more - in Arlington, Texas on September 26 for a day of community and conversation about the issues that matter most to you. Get your tickets at http://ms.now/together.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People."

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If historian Heather Cox Richardson ever had an agenda, it’d be protecting democracy. The history professor and author of the “Letters from an American” Substack joins Nicolle this week to consider the knock-on effects of economic pain at the grocery store and unpredictability at the podium on voter’s perception of Trumpism. She reflects on violence from ICE officers in her home state of Maine, the whiplash messaging in the war with Iran and concerns about the cyclosporiasis outbreak — which she sees as emblematic of places “where the federal government used to protect American families and are no longer.” Throughout, Richardson seamlessly adds historical context to our modern-day political struggles. And she makes it clear that we may already have what we need to recover: “What Americans are really doing in this moment is recovering their agency,” she says. “That’s a vibe shift.”

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