The Esau McCaulley Podcast

Former Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz is back in the spotlight with a new book about surviving infidelity, but should some sins permanently disqualify a pastor from ministry? Esau, Malcolm, and Mike discuss the difference between forgiveness and restoration, the dangers of celebrity pastors, and the Christian publishing industry's role in rehabilitating fallen leaders. Then, President Trump has developed a strange new obsession with people's backsides, and a Republican candidate in Ohio has released a political ad that takes dirty campaigning to a whole new level. What happens when Christians become so committed to political victories that they abandon their moral convictions? And is there any bottom left for American politics to hit?

0:00 - Theme Song

1:35 - Carl Lentz and Abuse of Power

7:20 - Monetizing Infidelity?

35:36 - Sponsor - World Relief - World Relief's newest guide, Beyond the Ballot, was designed to equip you with relevant facts, tools and resources to engage immigration and displacement issues with understanding, compassion and courage: http://worldrelief.org/holyposthttps://worldrelief.org/holypost

36:53 - Vivek Ramaswamy Ad Controversy

49:25 - End Credits

Articles Covered:

Carl Lentz:

https://www.wsj.com/style/hillsong-carl-laura-lentz-book-22fa7c1d

Trump's Inappropriate Comments:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/oct/25/trump-nicki-minaj-mike-rogers-michigan-rally

Article on Vivek Ramaswamy's Ad:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/10/24/us/politics/vivek-ramaswamy-ad-ohio-amy-acton.html

Power can be dangerous, especially when the people who have it don't realize just how much they wield. Sharon Miller joins Esau and Mike to discuss Kelly Clarkson's bizarre feud with a Brooklyn toy store and what it reveals about the blind spots of powerful people. Meanwhile, Elon Musk is pouring millions into the midterm elections, raising troubling questions about the influence of wealth, racism, and the issues Christians are willing to overlook for political victories. And as protests turn violent in France, are older generations protecting their own interests at the expense of the young? Plus, should Christians be worried about people turning to AI for spiritual advice, and what can a grieving mathematician teach us about the meaning of life?

0:00 - Theme Song

3:13 - Kelly and the Toy Bird

9:06 - Oblivious Powerful People

26:30 - Sponsor: The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

27:48 - France's Student Riots

38:41 - A.I. and Preaching

49:31 - End Credits

AI Mathematician on The Meaning of Life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfGenpmOjDQ

The Economist on AI and Religion:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/slFPKBdE8-Y

How can Christians have difficult conversations about faith without turning every disagreement into an argument? Christian hip-hop artist and apologist Emmanuel "Da Truth" Lambert joins Esau to discuss his new book, Forgive Me If I Was Rude, and why defending Christianity requires more than having the right answers. They explore the difference between winning arguments and reaching people, the importance of understanding someone's doubts and experiences, and why the gospel is bigger than many Christians realize. Plus, how should Christians respond to criticism of the church, and why do so many of us abandon kindness when we get on social media?

0:00 - Theme Song

0:56 - Forgive Me if I was Rude

6:02 - Deconstruction

16:52 - Responding to Those Questioning Christianity

23:34 - Sponsor - Church at the Crossroads - Esau shares about Church at the Crossroads, a conference hosted by Palestinian Christians in Atlanta, November 5–7. The gathering offers an opportunity to meet and learn from Palestinian pastors and Christian leaders, join in worship, and enjoy Palestinian food and cultural experiences, with time for conversation and fellowship. Use code ESAU for 20% off. Register at http://www.churchatthecrossroads.com/atlanta

24:47 - Sponsor - Brooklyn Bedding - For a quality mattress, go to https://www.brooklynbedding.com/ and use promo code ESAU to get 30% off site wide!

25:47 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

27:06 - Respond to the Culture

43:50 - Convergence of All Time

58:48 - End Credits

Forgive Me If I Was Rude: The Art of Having Complicated Faith-Based Conversations by Emmanuel Lambert: https://amzn.to/4ztEI1L

A sexual assault case at Cornell has sparked intense debate about consent, trauma, and how we talk about victims before all the facts are known. Esau is joined by Mika Edmondson to discuss what Christian sexual ethics should say about power, exploitation, and the dignity of the body. Then, they look at new research suggesting Black Christians in multi-ethnic churches may become less civically engaged, and ask what churches lose when pastors are too afraid to address racial injustice. Plus, are kids actually getting dumber? The guys talk declining test scores, shrinking attention spans, and what happens when education becomes only a means to the next achievement.

0:00 - Theme Song

2:12 - Cornell 7 and God's Heart for Victims

11:55 - Church Should Be a Place of Healing

19:46 - Sponsor - Church at the Crossroads - Esau shares about Church at the Crossroads, a conference hosted by Palestinian Christians in Atlanta, November 5–7. The gathering offers an opportunity to meet and learn from Palestinian pastors and Christian leaders, join in worship, and enjoy Palestinian food and cultural experiences, with time for conversation and fellowship. Use code ESAU for 20% off. Register at http://www.churchatthecrossroads.com/atlanta

21:00 - Sponsor - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

22:18 - Myth of the Non-Political Church

30:11 - Pastoring a Multi-Racial Church

39:50 - Are Teenagers Getting Dumber?

53:45 - End Credits

The Power of Unearned Suffering by Mika Edmondson:

https://amzn.to/3Wd9qOh

Student Test scores going down:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/08/us/us-reading-test-scores-pisa.html

Tim Tebow is facing criticism after an investigation raised questions about a Christian financial conference where he regularly spoke and encouraged attendees to sign up for classes. Esau, Mike, and guest Justin Giboney discuss how much responsibility Christian leaders have to vet the organizations they lend their name and credibility to, and when influence starts to look like endorsement. Then, they turn to grind culture and the popular idea that success simply comes down to wanting it badly enough. Does hard work really separate the people who make it from the people who don't, or are opportunity, timing, talent, and providence part of the story too? Plus, the guys discuss how quickly the internet can turn a brief viral moment into a sweeping judgment about someone's entire life.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:17 - Mike's Man Cold

1:38 - Tim Tebow Trouble

12:22 - Kirk Franklin and GloRilla

19:42 - Sponsor - Church at the Crossroads - Esau shares about Church at the Crossroads, a conference hosted by Palestinian Christians in Atlanta, November 5–7. The gathering offers an opportunity to meet and learn from Palestinian pastors and Christian leaders, join in worship, and enjoy Palestinian food and cultural experiences, with time for conversation and fellowship. Use code ESAU for 20% off. Register at http://www.churchatthecrossroads.com/atlanta

20:54 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

22:14 - Meeting People Where They Are?

26:11 - Druski and Grind Culture

44:24 - End Credits

Inside Tim Tebow's Favorite Wealth Seminar: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2026/09/life-surge-the-gospel-of-high-yields-inside-tim-tebows-favorite-wealth-seminar/

Kirk Franklin and GloRilla:

https://www.crosswalk.com/headlines/contributors/michael-foust/kirk-franklin-glorilla-collaboration-sparks-debate-over-her-explicit-music.html

Nacho Mom:

https://people.com/mom-of-the-year-carries-baby-food-at-mlb-game-defends-husband-after-viral-backlash-12143084

Meryl Streep is the new voice of Aslan, and Christians have plenty of opinions about it. Esau, Malcolm, and Producer Mike talk about the outrage over Greta Gerwig's Narnia casting choice and what it reveals about the things Christians choose to treat as sacred. They also discuss Nicole Hannah-Jones's reflections on sending her daughter to public school and the difficult question of whether our children should have to bear the cost of our convictions. Plus, Esau breaks down Pete Hegseth's use of Isaiah 6 on his "Send Me" military tour and why turning a prophetic calling into a recruiting message badly distorts the text.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:32 - Malcolm Foley

5:34 - Pete Hegseth and Isaiah 6

17:44 - Sending Kids to Private or Public School?

31:23 - Sponsor - Brooklyn Bedding - For a quality mattress, go to https://www.brooklynbedding.com/ and use promo code ESAU to get 30% off site wide!

32:15 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

33:27 - Sponsor - The Center for Christianity and Public Life - Come to Washington, D.C. on October 5-7 to join the Good of the Public Summit. Go to https://www.ccpubliclife.org and use code BETTERSTORY for 20% off at registration

35:00 - Parental Failure

37:34 - Meryl Streep as Aslan

51:23 - End Credits

Pete Hegseth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0VynQFRJRs

Can I Kick My Dog out of Bed?

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/22/well/get-pet-out-of-bed.html

Greta Gerwig's Narnia Casting Choice:

https://deadline.com/2026/09/greta-gerwig-chose-meryl-streep-voice-aslan-narnia-1237107096/

Public Schools

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/20/magazine/ny-public-schools-black-students-segregation.html

A Texas political candidate sees a crowd of brown students celebrating and assumes they must be foreigners. Esau, Mike, and Pricelis Perreaux-Dominguez unpack what that reaction reveals about race, belonging, and the fear of a changing America. They also talk about the growing power of AI, the tech world's obsession with overcoming human limits, and why some limitations may actually be good for us. Plus, Pricelis shares about her new book, False Peace, and why churches can confuse unity with sameness, asking people to assimilate instead of making room for genuine difference.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:20 - Esau in Español?

1:43 - Boosie's Presidential Pardon Attempt

6:20 - Community Work

19:35 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

20:52 - Sponsor - With God Daily - Get the daily devotional for people who hate daily devotionals in your inbox every day by signing up at: https://holypost.com/plus

22:05 - A.I. and False Promises

33:24 - False Peace by Assimilation

49:08 - End Credits

False Peace: How to Reject the Lie of Sameness, Embrace Difference, and Embody True Unity (How Christians Can Go Beyond Surface-Level Agreement to Build Communities of Authentic Unity) by Priceless Perreaux-Dominguez: https://amzn.to/4yCKduC

Articles Covered:

Boosie Lawsuit:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/18/us/boosie-badazz-pardon-lawsuit.html

New York Times on AI Tech Apocalypse:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/12/opinion/ai-tech-apocalypse-silicon-valley.html

Esau joins Justin Giboney and Christopher Butler of the Church Politics Podcast for a special crossover conversation about Black liberation theology, James Cone, and the relationship between justice and the gospel. Together, they explore what Cone got right about the church's failures on race and oppression, where liberation theology can become too narrow, and why Christians need a gospel that transforms both people and society. They also discuss the resurrection, the authority of Scripture, the danger of reducing Christianity to a political program, and what faithful public witness should actually look like.

0:00 - Theme Song

2:10 - Chance the Rapper on Liberation Theology

5:21 - James Cone's Books

20:56 - The Errors of Liberation Theology

39:52 - Trusting God, Not People

57:22 - End Credits

Youth sports are supposed to be good for kids, but what happens when giving your child every opportunity starts costing your family more than money? Esau, Malcolm Foley, and producer Mike talk about the booming youth sports industry, the pressure to keep up, and how parents can tell the difference between investing in their kids and trying to maximize them. Then they turn to the new TV show, Lanterns and its surprisingly thoughtful exploration of race, fear, parenting, and the pressure placed on Black children to be exceptional. And finally, they ask why Donald Trump has to make even superheroes about himself.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:21 - Youth Sports

11:28 - What's Worth Youth Sports?

16:57- Fear and the Black Experience

24:13 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

25:24 - Sponsor - Curiously, Kaitlyn - Ever had a question about God, the Bible, or Theology that you're embarrassed to ask? Chances are, a kid has already asked Kaitlyn that question! Check out Curiously, Kaitlyn: https://pod.link/1739169925

26:36 - Parenthood and Black Fear

36:42 - Trump's Green Lantern Post

48:53 - End Credits

Articles Covered:

https://www.denverpost.com/2026/08/23/pay-to-play-youth-sports/

What happens when trust begins to break down between people and the institutions meant to serve them? Esau, Mike, and Sharon Miller talk about vaccine skepticism, bad experiences with the healthcare system, and why Christians should care more about truth than winning an argument. They also discuss the rise of AI-assisted cheating and why forming people of integrity may matter more than creating better rules. Plus, how much privacy should we be willing to sacrifice for safety as surveillance technology becomes increasingly common?

0:00 - The Height of Deception

1:20 - Theme Song

1:40 - Daejon Love and Being Duped

9:41 - Vaccines and the Medical System's Failings

25:33 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

26:44 - Sponsor - Renovare Book Club - Spiritual formation through books! What else could you ask for? Learn more at https://renovare.org/bookclub

27:54 - Sponsor - Holy Post Plus - Want full episodes of the SkyePod? Wanna get schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess? What about a daily devotional for people who hate daily devotionals? Sign up for Holy Post Plus: https://substack.com/@holypostmedia

31:45 - Academic Cheating on the Rise

42:35 - Flock Cameras

53:53 - End Credit

Articles Mentioned:

Vaccines Custody Battle Article:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/09/07/the-maha-custody-battle

Students Cheating with AI:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/26/opinion/students-cheating-ai.html

Flock Cameras:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/31/podcasts/the-daily/flock-cameras-surveillance-america.html

For the 100th episode of The Esau McCaulley Podcast, Esau, Malcolm Foley, and Mike look at why America seems incapable of making meaningful progress on gun violence, even after school shootings. They discuss new research showing how pro-gun political spending surges after deadly shootings, what that reveals about money and power in American politics, and how our culture of violence shapes everyday life. Then, they turn to Gary, Indiana, to examine how decades of disinvestment and systemic racism still leave some communities more vulnerable than others. Finally, they ask whether avoiding conflict actually creates peace, and why healthy friendships, churches, and communities sometimes require us to say the hard thing.

0:00 - Theme Song

2:58 - Peacocks

8:44 - Pro-Gun Pac Increases After School Shootings

22:13 - Sponsor - Brooklyn Bedding - For a quality mattress, go to https://www.brooklynbedding.com/ and use promo code ESAU to get 30% off site wide!

23:13 - Gary, Indiana

38:33 - Conflict is Good for Relationships?

49:32 - End Credits

Resources:

Isaiah Johnson and the Big Game by Esau McCaulley: https://amzn.to/46lZ8gD

How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Survival in the American South by Esau McCaulley:

https://amzn.to/4ca7Kug

Charlie Dates grew up in a Black church tradition where justice and righteousness were never competing ideas. Esau sits down with the Chicago pastor and author to talk about what gets lost when churches emphasize biblical faithfulness without public justice, or justice without biblical righteousness. Dates explains why he believes evangelicalism has become more American than Christian, how the Black church has historically joined preaching with community action, and why pastors have a responsibility to prepare their congregations before the next cultural crisis hits. They also look back at the very different responses of Martin Luther King Jr. and Billy Graham to the civil rights movement, and what their choices reveal about Christian witness.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:06 - Advice for Pastors

8:31 - Evangelicalism is too American

18:15 - Sponsor - Tyndale - The Life Application Study Bible is here to give you resources to help you understand why scripture matters and how it applies today! Check it out now at: https://sites.tyndale.com/lasb/

19:14 - Legacy of Chicago

28:30 - How Black Churches Equip Students

47:00 - End Credits

Why is Spider-Man: Brand New Day resonating so deeply right now? Esau, Malcolm, and Sho Baraka unpack the loneliness at the heart of the film, why even superheroes struggle with isolation, and how the church can respond to our growing need for belonging. Then the conversation turns to America's story. They discuss whether they identify as "patriotic," how to hold the nation's ideals alongside its painful history of injustice, and what Paul can teach Christians about faithfully challenging the empire. Also, is Malcolm's superhero Mount Rushmore really the worst of all time?

00:00 - Introduction & Warm-Up

01:31 - Theme Song

01:44 - Superhero Mount Rushmore & Favorite Pop Culture Icons

05:17 - Spider-Man, Thunderbolts, and the Epidemic of Loneliness

12:49 - Overcoming Isolation & Building Real Community

19:25 - Sponsor - Tyndale - To celebrate the NLT's 30th anniversary, Use code ESAU30 to receive 30% off any NLT Bible! https://tyndale.com

20:38 - America's Story: History, Patriotism, and Identity

26:13 - Faith, Culture, and Higher Allegiances

41:55 - Finding Meaning, Belonging, and Hope Today

44:57 - End Credits

Churches in America are becoming more racially diverse, but many pastors are talking less about racial reconciliation. Esau, Mike, and guest Ike Miller explore why getting different people into the same room is not the same as creating a community where everyone truly belongs. Then, Ike shares the central idea behind his new book, Theology That Heals: salvation is not merely a transaction that forgives our guilt, but a lifelong process of restoring us to God, to one another, and to ourselves. Also, can Ike survive Esau's version of the newlywed game?

0:00 - Theme Song

0:43 - How Well Does Ike Know His Wife?

6:33 - Are Megachurches More Diverse?

13:45 - Preaching That Ignores Racial Divide

24:45 - Sponsor - Brooklyn Bedding - For a quality mattress, go to https://www.brooklynbedding.com/ and use promo code ESAU to get 30% off site wide!

25:48 - Aware of Your Identity

35:20 - Jesus the Healer

49:33 - End Credits

Check out more from Ike Miller at: https://ikemiller.com/

Nearly half of Gen Z says Christian support for Donald Trump has made them less likely to attend church. Esau, Mike, and Sharon Hodde Miller discuss what the finding reveals about the church's political witness, while also asking whether some young adults have become unwilling to worship beside anyone who votes differently. Then, they examine the latest viral social media trend and why so many people think their lives should be a documentary. Also, why are mega churches growing, but small churches are struggling, and Esau found another new favorite team.

0:00 - Theme Song

1:53 - Are Curses Real?

8:56 - Is Trump Keeping Gen Z Out of Church?

16:54 - The Church's Witness

32:05 - Sponsor - InterVarsity Press - Truth's Table has a Bible study on the Book of John, featuring Esau McCaulley! Check it out at: https://www.ivpress.com/studytheword and use code ESAU30 to get 30% off!

33:05 - Sponsor - Tyndale - To celebrate the NLT's 30th anniversary, listeners of this podcast can use the code ESAU30 to receive 30% off any NLT Bible at this link: https://hubs.la/Q04n6dQn0

34:13 - Pastoring Among People

38:46 - Megachurches Keep Growing

55:44 - Esau Explains it All

58:38 - End Credits

Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey asks what happens when you win the war but destroy the world you hoped to return to. Esau, Malcolm, and Mike discuss the cost of victory, the erosion of shared norms, and whether a country can ever truly go back to what it was before. They also turn to America's war with Iran and why leaders so rarely admit when they are wrong. Then, a bizarre effort to preserve a dying parent through an AI "death bot" raises deeper questions about grief, resurrection, and what makes a human being real. Plus, Esau (once again) has a new favorite soccer team.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:10 - Esau's Spain Jersey

3:00 - The Odyssey

11:24 - Erosion of Decency

24:22 - Sponsor - InterVarsity Press - Truth's Table has a Bible study on the Book of John, featuring Esau McCaulley! Check it out at: https://www.ivpress.com/studytheword and use code ESAU30 to get 30% off!

25:30 - War in Iran

38:51 - A.I. and Deathbots

52:25 - End Credits

How should Christians respond when a complicated or controversial person dies? Esau, Sho Baraka, and Mike reflect on Lindsey Graham's political legacy and the challenge of telling the truth without becoming cruel. Then, they turn to the death of Nolan Wells, the questions surrounding the case, and the pressure to draw conclusions before all the facts are known. They discuss how race shapes our suspicions, why wisdom sometimes means waiting, and how to pursue justice without turning every tragedy into a political scorecard. Finally, they consider the role Black barbershops can play in mental health, community, and creating spaces where men can speak honestly.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:58 - World Cup Predictions

7:52 - Responding to Lindsay Graham's Death

21:37 - Nolan Wells' Tragedy

26:06 - Sponsor - InterVarsity Press - Truth's Table has a Bible study on the Book of John, featuring Esau McCaulley! Check it out at: https://www.ivpress.com/studytheword and use code ESAU30 to get 30% off!

27:14 - Double Consciousness

35:57 - Black Barber Shops and Mental Health

52:40 - End Credits

America turned 250, but the celebration felt less like a shared national moment and more like another exhausting chapter in the Trump era. Esau, Malcolm Foley, and Mike discuss how Trump's involvement in a controversial World Cup decision managed to drain the joy out of U.S. soccer, and why so many Americans seem too tired to even argue about the country anymore. Then they turn to a disturbing Patriot Front march in Washington, D.C., and what it reveals about America's refusal to reckon honestly with racism. They also discuss the controversy surrounding Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner and why both parties keep confusing charisma with character. Finally, the crew debates whether colleges were wrong to abandon standardized tests and what parents, churches, and schools can do to help kids flourish.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:06 - Show Starts

1:27 - Trump Interfering with FIFA

11:02 - Exhausted by America

14:33 - A Bus with White Supremacists

27:02 - Sponsor - InterVarsity Press - Truth's Table has a Bible study on the Book of John, featuring Esau McCaulley! Check it out at: https://www.ivpress.com/studytheword and use code ESAU30 to get 30% off!

28:10 - Graham Platner

40:50 - SAT and ACT Testing

56:45 - End Credits

Texas is adding Bible passages to its public school reading standards, continuing the endless debate over the Bible in schools. Esau, Kaitlyn, and Mike discuss why Bible literacy matters for understanding American history and why teaching the Bible while downplaying race creates a distorted picture of the country. Then, they turn to the rise of one-child families and what may be lost when fewer children grow up with siblings. Plus, why do female-led superhero movies keep struggling, and what does Supergirl reveal about how we talk about women, heroes, and doing good?

0:00 - Theme Song

0:22 - Cohost of the Cookout

15:00 - Increase in Single Children

24:02 - Sponsor - Brooklyn Bedding - Use Code "ESAU" on checkout to get 30% sitewide for the July 4th sale—limited time offer, not available anywhere else! Go to https://brooklynbedding.com

24:55 - Sponsor - InterVarsity Press - Get Into The Word with Truth's Table - A new video Bible study series from InterVarsity Press, featuring biblical teaching from respected Black scholars and pastors including Dr. Esau McCaulley. Go to http://ivpress.com/studytheword and use the code ESAU30 at checkout for a 30% special discount.

26:00 - The Sacrifice of Having Kids

40:01 - Supergirl—do people want female superheroes?

49:37 - End Credits

World Cup visitors are discovering America, and somehow ranch dressing, air conditioning, Walmart have become ambassadors for the nation. Esau, Mike, and Nancy French ask why outsiders may be seeing America more clearly than Americans do, and whether our perception of the country is being warped by news, social media, and political caricatures. Then they consider a new study linking return-to-office mandates with narcissistic leaders. Does liking to work in the office automatically make you an egomaniac? Finally, they wrestle with the ethics of genetic testing for newborns, asking how much truth parents should want to know and whether some knowledge is too heavy to carry.

0:00 - Theme Song

3:11 - Tourists Discover America

7:05 - Americans Pessimistic About America

17:36 - Repenting of Nut-Picking

21:05 - Remote Work Unpopular with Narcissists

31:35 - Genetic Testing on Babies

45:11 - End Credits