The HAL Podcast

What does it really cost to lead according to your values? Dr. Jay Mesrobian sits down with Alverno Devine, Program and Partnership Manager for the Kern National Network for Flourishing in Health, to explore Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s The Cost of Discipleship and its surprising relevance to leadership today. Drawing on Alverno’s background in theology, community work, and healthcare leadership, they discuss the difference between stated values and lived values, why courage only matters when something is actually at stake, and how slowing down and making time for reflection can help leaders become more intentional about how they show up for others.

In this conversation:

– The difference between stating your values and actually living them

– Why courage, judgment, and action are inseparable

– How reflection can help leaders become more grounded and self-aware

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What can a great book teach us about becoming a better leader?

On The Human Arts of Leadership The Podcast, Anesthesiologist and Physician Executive Dr. Jay Mesrobian invites accomplished leaders to bring one book that has shaped the way they think, decide, grow, and lead.

Together, they explore the ideas behind the book—and the experiences behind the leader. Through candid conversations spanning leadership, healthcare, literature, philosophy, history, and the humanities, Jay uncovers timeless lessons for navigating complexity, understanding people, making better decisions, and leading with purpose.

Great leaders never stop learning. Sometimes, it starts with a book.