The Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast

Sometimes the pre-show chat goes on so long that we have enough for an entire podcast. And sometimes we're up against a deadline. Both of those things happened this week, so please enjoy the random, meandering conversation with Kristen, Sylvia, and Producer Ted. They talk about KZ & Syl's recent trip to California, the culture of tipping, and whether or not it's ok for men to pee sitting down. It's a whole lot of nothing but a whole lot of fun – we hope you enjoy this episode.

In Episode 78 of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, former police chiefs Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir dive into the middle of leadership decisions and what happens when radical ideas hit unexpected wobbles. Kristen shares a story from her time as a police lieutenant, where giving officers the autonomy to choose their assignments based on their passions led to a massive 300% increase in performance – until an external disruption caused a temporary dip, giving an opportunity for a critical commander to push back. Reflecting on organizational trust, workplace autonomy, and leading without ego, Kristen and Sylvia dissect the crucial boundary between principle and pride, offering a masterclass on how leaders can navigate self-doubt, stay anchored to their core mission, and avoid handing their judgment over to their loudest critics (or their own pride).

Episode 77, “Never Purchase Loyalty,” explores how leaders can create unhealthy loyalty by bonding with employees over shared grievances, especially complaints about other leaders. Kristin and Sylvia discuss why shared negativity can create a quick sense of connection, but also why that loyalty is conditional: if someone becomes loyal because you validate their complaints, they may turn on you when you eventually challenge them, set a boundary, or hold them accountable. They emphasize the difference between acknowledging someone's experience and endorsing their conclusions, encouraging leaders to listen carefully, ask what actually happened, take legitimate concerns seriously and redirect people toward resolving issues with the person involved. The episode also turns the mirror on leaders themselves, warning against enjoying the feeling of being the person everyone comes to complain to. The larger message is that trust should be built by making truth safe, even when it's complicated—not by using someone else's grievance to make them feel closer to you.

For Episode 76 of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, Kristen and Sylvia got out of the studio and onto a stage in California, where they recorded a live episode during the RISE conference. In front of an audience of women in policing, they went back to the beginning – sharing the story of how they met, explaining what "hollow bunny" means, and revisiting some of the stories and lessons that have shaped the podcast over the past four years. For longtime listeners, there’s something pretty great about hearing some of those stories again, this time with a live audience reacting along with them. And for anyone new to the podcast, it’s a chance to get to know Kristen and Sylvia and understand what the Hollow Bunny is all about without having to start at Episode 1. The live setting also gave the conversation a different energy and made for a particularly powerful episode for women working in the profession.

In this episode of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, former police chiefs and hosts Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir explore the delicate leadership balance between extending grace through "charitable assumptions" and recognizing actual behavioral patterns when people fall short. Drawing on concepts like the fundamental attribution error and the three distinct dimensions of trust—ability, benevolence, and integrity—they discuss how leaders can guard against personal biases, ensure their words align with their daily actions, and navigate the tough choices that arise when competing professional and personal priorities collide.

In our latest episode, Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir tackle the "selection problem" in modern organizations, debating whether leaders are too often promoted based on surface-level traits like charisma, confidence, and visibility rather than true substance. Using their signature "hollow bunny" metaphor to describe leaders who look the part but lack depth, Kristen argues that standard interview panels routinely reward high-visibility personalities over quiet competence and team-building capability. Sylvia offers pushback by introducing the Ivey Business School Leader Character Framework, emphasizing that robust leadership evaluation must test multidimensional character traits - such as judgment, humanity, courage, and temperance - under pressure. Ultimately, Kristen and Sylvia examine how leaders frequently promote others based on shared personal values, offering a compelling look at how organizations can look beyond charm to assess authentic character and capability.

In this episode of The Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, former police chiefs Sylvia Moir and Kristen Ziman explore personal transformation and leadership after stepping away from executive roles, drawing on concepts from Jim Collins, David Brooks, and Colin Powell. They break down a four-part framework for navigating life's major transitions: confronting the Cliff (defining, trajectory-altering life events), navigating the Fog (the uncertain period after a crisis that demands disciplined patience rather than hasty action), tending the Fire (the enduring internal purpose that outlasts any job title), and cultivating Self-Knowledge (continually re-evaluating one's identity across different seasons of life). Ultimately, the hosts highlight that true fulfillment comes from separating your personal worth from your position, using resilience and inner purpose to guide your next chapter.

In Episode 72, co-hosts Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir dive into the psychology of workplace productivity by unpacking Parkinson’s Law – the famous adage that work expands to fill the time allocated for its completion. Trading witty banter about childhood Trapper Keepers and questionable snack choices, the duo dissects how this law manifests in organizations, particularly through "artificial busyness" and bureaucratic bloat (illustrated by the humorous trap of managers hiring multiple assistants who simply create more work for one another). To combat this, they connect Parkinson's Law to the Law of Triviality (where committees obsess over minor details they all understand) and the Pareto Principle (the 80/20 rule), offering actionable leadership strategies to trim the fat. Ultimately, they argue that modern leaders should use constraint as a tool for impact – recommending shorter deadlines, breaking large projects into bite-sized milestones, replacing hour-long calendar blocks with highly structured 15-minute syncs, and focusing strictly on outcomes rather than the illusion of being busy.

In Episode 71 of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, Kristem and Sylvia examine the historical shifts in leadership theories. Using the context of the United States' 250th anniversary, the co-hosts debate whether leaders are born or made by tracing the evolution from the "Great Man" trait theory to modern behavioral and situational frameworks. Drawing from their extensive backgrounds in law enforcement, they challenge the "Peter Principle" and the corporate habit of promoting individuals solely based on technical test scores rather than human and conceptual competencies. Ultimately, Kristen & Sylvia emphasize that true, impactful leadership requires an agile, situationally fluid approach that bridges the vital gap between formal institutional authority and earned cultural legitimacy.

In Episode 70 of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, co-hosts and former police chiefs Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir take aim at the ubiquitous corporate advice to "always be yourself," arguing that modern notions of leadership authenticity have devolved into an oversold, diluted word salad. While acknowledging that vulnerability can build trust, they contend that unfiltered "authenticity" often serves as a convenient shield for poor behavior, self-indulgence, or a total lack of emotional regulation. Drawing from their own high-stakes law enforcement careers – including the distinct ways they maintained composure and managed teams during the intense pressures of the COVID-19 pandemic – Kristen & Sylvia assert that true leadership demands situational behavior and strict emotional control to protect the crew and serve the mission. Interspersing this heavy leadership critique with sharp wit, banter about a live tour, and a debate over getting matching ampersand tattoos, the hosts deliver a definitive bottom line for the modern leader: your core values must remain fixed, but your behavior and delivery must adapt to what the situation requires.

Episode 69 of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast features former police chiefs Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir diving into the complicated relationship between leadership, influence, and authenticity through the lens of Stanford professor Jeffrey Pfeffer’s book The Power Playbook. The conversation explores everything from executive presence and personal branding to networking and mentorship, while also challenging some of Pfeffer’s more controversial ideas about flattery, image, and apologies in leadership. Throughout the episode, Kristen and Sylvia wrestle with the tension between perception and substance, ultimately arguing that strong leadership is built on credibility, self-awareness, and the willingness to own mistakes while continuing to grow.

In Episode 68 of the Hollow Bunny Leadership podcast, "Shirts vs Skins," former police chiefs Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir dive into the ultimate trial of leadership: what to do when something goes wrong on your watch and the spotlight lands squarely on you. Rejecting the instinctual urge to protect the ego or retreat into "hollow" silence, they challenge leaders to face public scrutiny with thick skin and unshakeable character. Through a breakdown of their own decision-making frameworks – and a deep dive into an iconic pressroom scene from The American President – Kristen and Sylvia lay down a powerful blueprint for confronting accusations, distinguishing between mere noise and genuine accountability, and avoiding the trap of professional obfuscation. Tune in to learn how true leaders stop managing the damage and start leading the narrative with courage, truth, and decisive action.

In this episode of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, Kristen and Sylvia explore why some leaders feel their agency is slipping and begin to withdraw under constant pressure, scrutiny, and uncertainty. They argue that while brief moments of retreat can be healthy, chronic disengagement harms organizations and often shows up as avoiding hard decisions, playing it safe, or becoming reactive. The conversation emphasizes that leadership today requires courage, resilience, and the ability to tolerate ambiguity rather than waiting for perfect conditions. Through stories and examples, they challenge leaders to recognize when withdrawal is happening, examine what they may be avoiding, and recommit to shaping culture instead of hiding from the choices that define it.

In Episode 66 of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, Producer Ted unexpectedly stays on mic and camera—rarely heard but fittingly present—adding to the group’s candid, unscripted dynamic as Kristen and Sylvia dive into a core leadership question: when is it your responsibility to confront someone whose behavior is damaging their reputation or harming others? Beneath the humor and back-and-forth, the conversation wrestles with “open secrets,” the tendency to avoid hard conversations due to fear or self-interest, and the moral gray areas around credibility, relationships, and firsthand knowledge. They explore real-world examples, including public figures and workplace dynamics, to highlight how silence can enable harmful behavior, while also acknowledging the risks of speaking up. Ultimately, the episode lands on a clear challenge: leaders—and really anyone—must develop the judgment and courage to step in when it matters, especially when others are being harmed, recognizing that while outcomes aren’t guaranteed, the responsibility to act often is.

In this episode of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, former police chiefs Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir use a chaotic, uncomfortable round of golf to explore a bigger question: how do you know when it’s time to leave—whether in a situation, a relationship, or a leadership role? Through candid storytelling and reflection, they unpack the tendency to “stay too long,” often driven by fear, identity, or a desire to be kind, and examine how that choice can impact both personal well-being and others. The conversation expands into leadership, highlighting the responsibility to build a strong bench, avoid clinging to power, and recognize when staying serves self over mission. Ultimately, they challenge listeners to be honest with themselves, noting that true leadership is measured not by how long you stay, but by what happens after you leave.

In this episode of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moir (aka "Sugar Britches") dive deep into the "Competence Trap"—the psychological phenomenon that keeps smart, capable people tethered to broken organizations and unfulfilling relationships. Moving beyond the "hallway conversations" where honesty usually hides, they explore the concept of "accepted misery" and the fear that prevents high-performers from becoming beginners again. From the "moment of reckoning" where awareness demands action to the distinction between technical fixes and adaptive change, Kristen and Sylvia challenge listeners to examine where they are playing small and why they are choosing the comfort of a known struggle over the uncertainty of a new life.

In this episode of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, Kristen Ziman and Sylvia Moyer talk about one of the most influential and overlooked roles in any organization: the middle manager.

Well, eventually they talk about this. Prior to that, they took a couple of off-ramps to discuss public speaking and reading books. When they return to their main topic, Kristen and Sylvia have a lively discussion about influence, accountability, and why the real engine of any organization often sits right in the middle.

Episode 62 explores why leaders who avoid taking a stance often unintentionally reinforce the status quo and weaken trust. Kristen and Sylvia argue that silence in moments of consequence is not peaceful — it’s permissive. Through stories from law enforcement and organizational life, they unpack how neutrality can look like calm but is often self-protection that drains energy, mutes critical thinking, and signals an unwillingness to make hard decisions, leaving others to fill the vacuum. Running alongside the conversation is Sylvia’s heroic battle with a cough that keeps trying to filibuster the episode — a scratchy-throated reminder that even when your voice is under attack, using it still matters.

Episode 61 centers on the quiet but powerful challenge of asking for help, as Kristen and Sylvia reflect on moments when support arrived by chance rather than intention—and why that happens so often for leaders. Through deeply personal stories, they unpack the barriers that keep people silent: identity tied to self-reliance, fear of burdening others, shame, control, pride, and long-ingrained beliefs that vulnerability equals weakness. Framed as a “flaw disguised as a virtue,” not asking for help robs others of the purpose and meaning that comes from being there for someone. The episode challenges listeners to rethink strength, detach identity from role, ask earlier rather than at a breaking point, and adopt a simple, courageous practice—identify one trusted person and ask, “Can you help me think this through?”—as an act of leadership in action.

In this episode of the Hollow Bunny Leadership Podcast, Kristen and Sylvia kick off a “fresh start” conversation about the communication habits leaders should leave behind. Using a recent article as a springboard, they explore how over-reliance on AI, hyper-efficiency, and passive behaviors like leaving people “on read” quietly erode trust and connection. With humor and candor, Kristen and Sylvia make the case for imperfect, human communication—embracing authenticity, warmth, and intention over polish—reminding leaders that credibility is built not through templates and tools, but through presence, clarity, and real human fingerprints.