The Peterman Pod

Stephen Toub is a Distinguished Engineer at Microsoft who single-handledly rewrote the GitHub Copilot runtime (400,000-line codebase) in Rust. We talked about why/how he did it, how Rust compared with other languages, and everything he learned in the process.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/
• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLMOVlZC4eU
• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835
• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/e073-stephen-toub

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro
(01:06) Why the Copilot runtime needed a Rust port
(05:38) Why he chose Rust
(11:28) Discussing rollout strategies
(21:57) How he caught regressions
(32:08) Guiding the agents
(42:11) Catching regressions before prod
(45:16) Which models he used
(50:03) The end benefit and costs
(01:03:24) When to do a full rewrite
(01:06:40) Career learnings on the way to Distinguished
(01:16:00) Top technical book recommendation
(01:17:49) Advice for young engineers
(01:21:00) Outro

Where to find Stephen:

• GitHub: https://github.com/stephentoub
• X: https://twitter.com/stephentoub
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-toub-75979745/

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/
• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Stephen Toub’s post on porting the GitHub Copilot runtime to Rust: https://github.blog/ai-and-ml/generative-ai/migrating-the-github-copilot-runtime-to-rust-using-copilot/
• Jarred Sumner’s post on porting Bun to Rust: https://bun.com/blog/bun-in-rust
• Code: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software: https://www.charlespetzold.com/code/index.html

Brian Kernighan is a former Bell Labs member of technical staff, co-author of the original C book, and the one who popularized “Hello World.” We talked about what Bell Labs was like and the stories behind all the famous tools that were built there.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/
• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMllOlxVgD0
• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835
• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/e072-brian-kernighan

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro
(00:42) What Bell Labs was and how he got hired
(06:34) Why so many inventions came from Bell Labs
(14:15) A day in the life at Bell Labs
(27:55) The most impressive people he worked with
(33:50) The AT&T film explaining Unix
(39:46) Why C was so influential
(43:25) How awk was created
(48:40) What he misses most about Bell Labs
(54:10) Are LLMs bad for computer science education
(01:01:46) His 1972 commit in the Go repo
(01:03:43) Grace Emlen, the fake Bell Labs employee
(01:07:39) Why he writes so many books
(01:19:58) His favorite and least favorite languages
(01:24:28) Advice for students and young people
(01:27:42) Outro

Where to find Brian:

• Personal website: https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~bwk/
• Princeton University faculty profile: https://www.cs.princeton.edu/people/profile/bwk
• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Kernighan

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/
• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• UNIX: Making Computers Easier to Use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
• Brian Kernighan’s first Harvard CS50 lecture (1996): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ba1XFVy7qw
• A Beautiful Mind: https://www.universalpicturesathome.com/movies/a-beautiful-mind
• Shifts: Important Ideas in Computing: https://www.amazon.com/Shifts-Nine-Ideas-Revolutionized-Computing/dp/0262064294/
• Labscam (Penn & Teller at Bell Labs, 1989): https://www.nokia.com/bell-labs/about/dennis-m-ritchie/labscam.html
• Labscam video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnsmDNamd2g
• Understanding the Digital World (new edition): https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Digital-World-Computers-Internet/dp/0691288879

This interview is with Paul Mockapetris, the creator of the internet's Domain Name System (DNS). I talked to him about the story behind building it and certain design choices he made.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/
• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT4iVeUoL18
• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835
• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/e071-paul-mockapetris

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro
(00:40) What computing was like before DNS
(09:02) Why URLs are inverted
(16:33) How DNS works
(20:27) How he migrated the internet to DNS
(25:17) Why do companies host DNS servers
(33:17) What is an RFC
(35:07) How he got into computing
(46:39) Advice for his younger self
(52:56) Outro

Where to find Paul:

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mockapetris

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/
• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Original DNS RFC 882: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc882/
• Original DNS RFC 883: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc883/

Scott Aaronson is one of the world's leading quantum computing researchers and spent two years at OpenAI working on AI safety.

We talked about why he thinks the singularity has already begun for math, who gets credit when AI writes the proof, and whether intelligence will still matter once machines do the thinking.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/
• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORlscppGGh4
• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835
• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/e070-scott-aaronson

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro
(00:34) Why he updated so hard on AI
(01:14) The people still denying AI progress
(03:53) The singularity has already begun for math
(08:30) Will human-driven math research survive
(13:12) Who gets credit for AI-written papers
(15:55) OpenAI's $15M Navier-Stokes proof
(19:20) What if AI proved P = NP
(23:07) Why AI is so good at finding counterexamples
(26:13) The goalposts keep moving
(28:52) Why AI disclosure matters in research
(32:59) The fake Monet experiment
(35:23) Why he blogs instead of getting rich
(39:45) Are AI labs racing too fast
(42:01) Will intelligence still matter
(47:12) Book recommendations
(52:27) Advice for students today
(57:23) Reacting live to a new AI result
(59:58) Outro

Where to find Scott:

• Personal website: https://www.scottaaronson.com/
• Blog — Shtetl-Optimized: https://scottaaronson.blog/
• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Aaronson

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/
• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• OpenAI's Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize solution: https://cdn.openai.com/pdf/32d9f210-8b73-45e0-91bc-82a30aef8a9a/navier-stokes.pdf
• Rebecca Goldstein's The Mind-Body Problem: https://rebeccagoldstein.com/the-mind-body-problem-contemporary-american-fiction/
• Andrew Hodges's Alan Turing: The Enigma: https://www.turing.org.uk/book/
• The Man Who Knew Infinity: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Man-Who-Knew-Infinity/Robert-Kanigel/9781476763491
• The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/76
• Anthropic's subquadratic 3SUM result: https://arxiv.org/abs/2610.06783

Neetcode is the most well-known coding interview prep creator with over 1M+ subs on YouTube. I interviewed him about the latest on coding interviews, his career at Amazon vs Google, and what it was like quitting big tech to do his own thing.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/K15dND_Kfvg

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/neetcode-google-vs-amazon-programming

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:33) Quitting Amazon after 2 months

(06:00) Testing Neetcode on Leetcode

(12:57) Memorizing vs deriving solutions and intelligence

(16:13) The story behind Neetcode

(22:24) Getting a job at Google

(27:47) How it was quitting big tech

(29:38) What he hated most about Google

(30:52) Top technical book recommendation

(32:34) Advice for his younger self

(33:46) Outro

Where to find Neetcode:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/navdeep-singh-3aaa14161/

• Twitter/X: https://x.com/neetcode1

• His website: https://neetcode.io/

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NeetCodeIO

• GitHub: https://github.com/neetcode-gh

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neetcodeio/

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@neetcode.io

• Discord: https://discord.gg/ddjKRXPqtk

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Neetcode's "Maybe Some People Should Just Give Up" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsoEipuwXiI

• Designing Data-Intensive Applications: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Data-Intensive-Applications-Reliable-Maintainable/dp/B08VL1BLHB

In this episode, I asked Ethan Evans (ex-Amazon VP) questions about common situations in corporate politics but they get increasingly darker.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/
• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhjhRRz3VJw
• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835
• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/e068-ethan-evans

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:
• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(00:42) How to receive credit for your work
(19:18) Ways for quiet people to get visibility
(21:32) How to be trusted for top projects
(29:52) How to defend from others taking your project
(36:13) How to reject bad projects
(44:10) How to be first for promo
(55:35) How to handle managers that dislike career growth talk
(01:06:30) What if your manager is in the way
(01:15:43) Did he ever have overly political reports
(01:28:06) How to fire a bad manager
(01:35:16) What gives you leverage
(01:43:41) How to defend against peers undermining you
(01:50:24) What if everyone is good at politics
(01:55:11) How Jeff Bezos burned him for empire building
(02:03:27) How to retain your headcount
(02:07:31) Career recommendations for the current landscape
(02:15:11) How to avoid negative layoff optics
(02:18:39) How to develop executive presence
(02:29:25) How to network in a natural way
(02:33:30) How to network with powerful people
(02:41:01) How to learn hidden incentives
(02:44:43) What happens behind the scenes with HR
(02:50:13) Did he burn people to get ahead
(02:53:24) What he says to people who hate politics
(02:59:03) Top book recommendations on power dynamics
(03:00:45) How he would speedrun career growth today
(03:06:56) Outro

Where to find Ethan:
• Personal website: https://www.ethanevans.com/
• Newsletter: https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EthanEvansVP
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/EthanEvansVP
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ethanevansvp

Where to find Ryan:
• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/
• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:
• Never Split the Difference: https://www.blackswanltd.com/never-split-the-difference
• Leadership and Self-Deception: https://arbinger.com/bookstore/leadership-and-self-deception
• The 48 Laws of Power: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/330912/the-48-laws-of-power-by-robert-greene/

Philip Su grew quickly to a Distinguished Engineer at Facebook and OpenAI. We talked about the psychology behind peaking in a tech career and the pressure at the highest levels.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/
• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMo04pSSiao
• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835
• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/openai-and-meta-distinguished-eng

Thank you to this episode's sponsors for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/
• Jira by Atlassian: Get more work done with your favorite agents and models all in one place, check them out at https://jira.dev/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro
(00:37) Growth past IC9
(05:39) Motivation changes over his career
(11:36) Asking to not be promoted
(17:33) What made it hard to sustain IC9 performance
(22:22) What motivated him outside of promos
(26:21) Is career advice useless
(29:34) Motivation after you've hit FIRE
(36:08) Meaning and fulfillment
(38:17) Top book recommendation
(40:14) What he would change
(43:24) Outro

Where to find Philip:

• Substack newsletter: https://molochinations.substack.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suphilip/
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/philipsu

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/
• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374715243/fourthousandweeks/

Casey Muratori is a video game developer and programming creator also known for his talks about the history of software and computing. We talked about surprising parts he found while digging through computer history, where bad code comes from, and his career story.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/jHLbL1Eg4gM

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/casey-muratori-surprises-in-computer

Thank you to this episode's sponsors for supporting my work:

• Jira by Atlassian: Get more work done with your favorite agents and models all in one place, check them out at https://jira.dev/

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(01:08) Digging into computer science history

(04:08) What shocked him

(16:23) Dijkstra was depressed

(26:17) The personal side of goto considered harmful

(35:09) The anatomy of a 35 year mistake

(50:12) Clean code horrible performance

(58:33) How to write high performance code

(01:01:18) Where bad code comes from

(01:06:37) Why design docs before code is a bad idea

(01:09:20) The only unbreakable law in software engineering

(01:15:57) How he got into programming

(01:21:16) Why he didnt work in big tech

(01:30:44) Should you work at a startup early on

(01:34:52) What video game engineering is like

(01:39:57) Why preventing recursion is reasonable

(01:43:24) Is vibe coding bad for the industry

(01:50:17) Technical reading recommendation

(01:54:27) Advice for his younger self

(01:56:54) Outro

Where to find Casey:

• Website: https://caseymuratori.com/

• Newsletter: https://www.computerenhance.com/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/cmuratori

• GitHub: https://github.com/cmuratori

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MollyRocket

• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/cmuratori.bsky.social

• Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/molly_rocket

• Handmade Network: https://handmade.network/m/cmuratori

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Muratori

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• The Root of the Root of All Evil: https://computerenhance.com/theroot

• The Big OOPS: Anatomy of a 35-Year Mistake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo84LFzx5nI

• Edsger Dijkstra's "Notes on Structured Programming": https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD02xx/EWD249/EWD249.html

• Donald Knuth's "Structured Programming with go to Statements": https://doi.org/10.1145/356635.356640

• Edsger Dijkstra's "Go To Statement Considered Harmful": https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD02xx/EWD215.html

• Ivan Sutherland's Sketchpad thesis: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-574.html

• Clean Code, Horrible Performance: https://www.computerenhance.com/p/clean-code-horrible-performance

• Where Does Bad Code Come From?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YpFGkG-u1w

• The Only Unbreakable Law: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IUj1EZwpJY

• Dijkstra letter's reference: https://medium.com/@acidflask/this-guys-arrogance-takes-your-breath-away-5b903624ca5f#.1rdj838x6

Thariq Shihipar is an engineer on Anthropic’s Claude Code team I asked him how Anthropic makes the most out of the models for engineering and how the industry will change soon.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/2Kch3tWMnw8

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/how-anthropic-builds-and-how-engineering

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:29) Onboarding at Anthropic

(02:53) Internal capabilities vs external perception

(06:16) Model vs Harness

(08:55) What percent of Anthropics changes are fully autonomous

(14:51) Computer use

(17:42) How to make the most out of your compute

(20:45) Loop engineering

(22:47) Where the industry will go soon

(26:02) Which model do Anthropic engineers use

(27:38) Is learning a particular model worth it

(30:56) Prompting tips for todays models

(35:04) How to get the models to do tasteful work

(39:00) How much of writing is done by AI at Anthropic

(45:36) Code ownership and maintenance at Anthropic

(52:04) How Anthropic prevents breakages

(55:24) Visibility and sharing your work

(58:42) Luck surface area example

(01:00:57) Should people still learn to code

(01:07:42) Advice for his younger self

(01:09:58) Outro

Where to find Thariq:

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/trq212

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thariqshihipar/

• Personal Website: https://www.thariq.io/

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Anthropic's post on removing 80% of Claude Code's system prompt: https://claude.com/blog/the-new-rules-of-context-engineering-for-claude-5-generation-models

Martin Odersky is the creator of Scala and I interviewed him to compare different languages designs (Rust vs Zig vs Python vs Scala) and how AI will impact programming languages.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/LdN4sPWM-WY

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/creator-of-scala-comparing-languages?r=n49ky

Thank you to this episode's sponsors for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

• Jira by Atlassian: Get more work done with your favorite agents and models all in one place, check them out at https://jira.dev/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:44) Why care about functional programming

(06:35) Why should people learn Scala

(09:26) Rust vs Scala

(12:42) Rust vs Zig

(15:45) Scala vs Python

(18:31) The programming languages that influenced him

(22:16) How running on the JVM works

(26:33) Why writing a compiler is hard

(29:19) Why Twitter adopted Scala early on

(31:00) How he believes AI will impact programming languages

(43:40) Will there be less engineers in ten years

(44:34) Top programming languages to learn to grow

(46:18) Top technical book recommendation

(46:51) Why he chose academia instead of industry

(48:28) Reflecting on Scala

(55:42) Advice for his younger self

(56:33) Outro

Where to find Martin:

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Odersky

• Website: https://people.epfl.ch/martin.odersky

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/odersky

• GitHub: https://github.com/odersky

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs: https://web.mit.edu/6.001/6.037/sicp.pdf

• A Brief, Incomplete, and Mostly Wrong History of Programming Languages (book): http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html

Sergey Levine is one of the world's top robotics researchers and co-founder of Physical Intelligence. We talked about where humanoid robotics is today, thoughts on the Chinese robotics ecosystem, and his predictions for future timelines.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/9OSbaPjv0Rc

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/sergey-levine-current-state-of-humanoid?r=n49ky

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:37) Where are we today

(04:20) Most surprising capabilities so far

(07:03) The most inspiring real world robotics

(08:36) If OpenAI or Anthropic got into robotics

(10:22) Chinese robotics

(13:15) Will one lab breakout from the rest

(16:59) Thoughts on a concrete roadmap

(21:03) Generalization and demonstrating it

(26:04) Types of data and which is best for robotics

(34:34) Why humanoid robotics differs from Waymo

(37:10) If humanoid robotics failed here is why

(39:55) Are there hot take modeling architectures in robotics

(42:05) Thoughts on AI safety in robotics

(46:44) Top robotics research paper recommendation

(49:35) Why is Boston Dynamics less top of mind

(53:47) Advice for his younger self

(56:42) Outro

Where to find Sergey:

• Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=8R35rCwAAAAJ&hl=en

• Website: https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~svlevine/

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Levine

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/svlevine?lang=en

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sergey-levine-5a31a24/

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Learning Fine-Grained Bimanual Manipulation with Low-Cost Hardware (ALOHA / ACT paper): https://arxiv.org/abs/2304.13705

• Emergence of Human to Robot Transfer in Vision-Language-Action Models: https://arxiv.org/abs/2512.22414

• Summary of human to robot paper: https://www.pi.website/research/human_to_robot

Anders Hejlsberg is the creator of TypeScript and C#, and I asked him about how the TypeScript compiler got 10x faster through a rewrite in Go and his thoughts on how AI has impacted software engineering.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cywK3XYYJ2o

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/creator-of-typescript-10x-faster

Thank you to this episode's sponsors for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

• Jira by Atlassian: Get more work done with your favorite agents and models all in one place, check them out at https://jira.dev/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:48) Why write a compiler in JavaScript

(07:29) Why rewrite the compiler in Go

(14:49) LLMs for large migrations

(20:12) Why Javascript is so popular

(26:32) Why ever use Javascript on the backend

(32:59) What it takes to build a programming language

(37:06) Will there be fewer languages in 10 years

(42:57) Hands on engineering vs delegation

(49:14) Why fast tooling matters more now

(51:16) AI software engineering predictions

(58:52) The most technically challenging work

(01:02:04) Top book recommendation

(01:03:50) Advice for his younger self

(01:05:00) Outro

Where to find Anders:

• GitHub: https://github.com/ahejlsberg

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ahejlsberg

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahejlsberg/

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Flow type checker repository: https://github.com/facebook/flow

• TypeScript compiler repository: https://github.com/microsoft/TypeScript

• Algorithms + Data Structures = Programs (book): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithms_%2B_Data_Structures_%3D_Programs

• TypeScript native rewrite: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/typescript/announcing-typescript-7-0/

Leonardo de Moura is the creator of Lean and the Z3 theorem prover. I talked with him about how Lean works and why LLMs plus Lean will fundamentally change how we write software and do math.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/KzdYKeAqWhY

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/creator-of-lean-the-end-of-handwritten

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:28) How formal verification works

(05:21) A new way of writing software

(13:15) Proof assistants vs programming languages

(21:06) How Lean has assisted in mathematical breakthroughs

(32:03) When is it worth formalizing software

(33:29) How Lean will impact handwritten math

(38:55) The Z3 theorem prover project he started

(45:44) The most technically challenging work of his career

(51:10) Lean vs its competitors

(01:00:37) The future of Lean

(01:04:10) Technical book recommendations

(01:06:15) Advice for his younger self

(01:07:10) Outro

Where to find Leonardo:

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_de_Moura

• Website: https://leodemoura.github.io/

• GitHub: https://github.com/leodemoura

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leonardo-de-moura-26a27b5/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/Leonard41111588

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Lean 4: https://github.com/leanprover/lean4

• Mathlib: Lean Mathematical Library: https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib4

• Lean4Lean: https://github.com/digama0/lean4lean

• Liquid Tensor Experiment: https://xenaproject.wordpress.com/2020/12/05/liquid-tensor-experiment/

• Veil protocol verification language: https://veil.dev/

• Z3 theorem prover: https://github.com/Z3Prover/z3

• seL4 formally verified microkernel: https://github.com/seL4/seL4

Roberto Ierusalimschy is the creator of the Lua programming language. I interviewed him about Lua's unique strengths, programming language design and predictions for how AI will impact programming languages.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/jCZnFKk6M9A

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/creator-of-lua-scripting-programming

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:43) What sets Lua apart

(08:35) Comparing Lua with Python

(13:04) Top book recommendation on language design

(14:20) How JIT works and why it is hard

(23:21) Compiling Python and interpreting C

(30:31) How cross language calls work

(36:58) Lua unique design decisions

(51:17) Predictions for AIs impact on languages

(01:00:10) Top 3 languages to learn to become a better engineer

(01:03:21) Advice for his younger self

(01:04:19) Outro

Where to find Roberto:

• Website: https://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Ierusalimschy

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• The Evolution of Lua: https://www.lua.org/doc/hopl.pdf

• LuaJIT: https://luajit.org/

• How much does it cost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUvgoxBm7uc

• JavaScript: The Good Parts (not an affiliate link): https://www.amazon.com/dp/0596517742

Judea Pearl is a Turing Award winner and a pioneer in artificial intelligence and causal reasoning. We talked about how he got into science, his major breakthroughs and his predictions for AI today.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/FleTXB1fAcQ

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/turing-award-winner-early-ai-llm

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:54) How he got into AI

(11:17) Greatest scientist of all time

(20:15) What people thought of AI in the 80s

(26:23) Entering academia and researching AI

(34:52) The invention of Bayesian networks

(46:28) Pioneering work in causality

(55:38) The causal hierarchy

(59:34) LLMs and predictions

(01:20:12) A restless mind pays

(01:24:36) Advice for his younger self

(01:26:37) Outro

Where to find Judea:

• X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/yudapearl

• Website: https://bayes.cs.ucla.edu/jp_home.html

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_Pearl

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• The Book of Why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Why

• Bayesian networks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_network

• Alpha-beta pruning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha%E2%80%93beta_pruning

• Pearl vortex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_vortex

• Graphoid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphoid

• Causality: Models, Reasoning, and Inference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_(book)

• Coexistence and Other Fighting Words: Selected Writings of Judea Pearl, 2002–2025: https://bayes.cs.ucla.edu/COEXISTENCE/

Xavier Leroy (creator of OCaml) is an expert in compilers, formal verification of software and functional programming. This interview should be an approachable resource if you're curious about formal verification of software since I was learning that on the fly during it.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/9Cswiqrq6So

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/creator-of-ocaml-functional-programming

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:43) What sets OCaml apart

(04:39) OCaml vs Rust

(07:57) Why is manual memory management more performant

(11:21) Javascript vs OCaml

(14:00) Famous Rob Pike quote

(16:05) Type inference and how it works

(22:12) What is formal verification and how does it work

(40:07) What made multicore support difficult for OCaml

(50:17) How programming languages interface and call each other

(57:41) The danger of almost-correct LLM code

(01:05:39) How LLMs will change programming languages

(01:10:26) Industry vs academia

(01:15:05) Most interesting unsolved problems

(01:18:30) Top book recommendations for engineers

(01:21:17) Advice for his younger self

(01:23:31) Outro

Where to find Xavier:

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Leroy

• Website: https://xavierleroy.org/

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• CompCert verified C compiler: https://compcert.org/

• seL4 microkernel: https://sel4.systems/

• Programming Pearls (book, not an affiliate link): https://www.amazon.com/dp/0201657880

• How to Design Programs (book): https://htdp.org/

David Patterson is a Turing Award winner famous for his contributions to computer architecture. I interviewed him about his past work, thoughts on GPU/TPUs and career advice from half a century of experience.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/Pn4ZwlEh5nw

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/turing-award-winner-tpu-vs-gpu-vs?r=n49ky

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:42) RISC vs CISC

(12:51) Compilers

(17:38) GPUs

(23:07) GPU vs TPU vs CPU

(32:12) Is Moores law dead?

(38:04) GPU benchmarks

(41:40) How to have a bad career

(49:59) Courage and optimism

(55:56) Advice for his younger self

(58:15) Outro

Where to find David:

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Patterson_(computer_scientist)

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• AlexNet paper: https://proceedings.neurips.cc/paper_files/paper/2012/file/c399862d3b9d6b76c8436e924a68c45b-Paper.pdf

• David Patterson's “How to Have a Bad Career” talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn1w4MRHIhc

• “Life Lessons from the First Half-Century of My Career”: https://cacm.acm.org/opinion/life-lessons-from-the-first-half-century-of-my-career/

• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People (book): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_7_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People

• Working (book): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_(Terkel_book)

Martin Hellman is a Turing Award winner who helped to invent public-key cryptography against the NSA's wishes. I interviewed him all about his work and why it broke the law at the time.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/AZLOETBCQM4

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/turing-award-winner-nsa-public-key

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:34) Why his work broke the law

(08:39) How people did encryption before

(18:51) The crypto wars

(26:22) The story behind Diffie Hellman key exchange

(36:48) Signatures vs key exchange

(43:05) RSA patent wars

(48:08) Why inventions happen at similar times

(50:29) What he worked on after cryptography

(57:31) His thoughts on death

(59:40) Advice for his younger self

(01:00:45) Outro

Where to find Martin:

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Hellman

• Website: https://ee.stanford.edu/~hellman/

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Martin Hellman's “The Evolution of Public Key Cryptography”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tev3tVzH91s

• Keys Under Doormats: https://cacm.acm.org/opinion/keys-under-doormats/

• Cryptography's Role in Securing the Information Society (CRISIS report): https://nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/5131/cryptographys-role-in-securing-the-information-society

• Secure Communications Over Insecure Channels: https://doi.org/10.1145/359460.359473

• New Directions in Cryptography: https://doi.org/10.1109/TIT.1976.1055638

Ryan Williams is a professor at MIT and the winner of the Gödel Prize in theoretical computer science. I interviewed him all about his work starting by asking him a popular Leetcode question (3 SUM).

Correction: In this podcast I say "lower bound" when I mean "upper bound" and vice versa. Was speaking using the intuition that lower is better for running time. In reality, the accurate usage is:

"Lower bound" = A proven floor for a problem e.g. "no algorithm can possibly be faster"

"Upper bound" = A proven ceiling for a specific solution e.g. "there exists an algorithm this fast"

Professor Williams answers as if I spoke accurately so the error didn't impact the flow of conversation. Just a correction for the record

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/AaK1SL2i_4Y

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/mit-complexity-theorist-on-leetcode

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:41) Asking him a popular Leetcode question

(03:54) Doing better than the popular optimal solution

(08:26) Fine grained complexity

(17:00) A severe strengthening of P vs NP

(24:38) SAT problems and solvers

(34:51) Hot takes on famous open questions

(46:57) Simulating space with time

(01:01:02) Why he solves hard problems

(01:02:35) How to pick good research direction

(01:07:14) Technical book recommendations

(01:08:31) Advice for his younger self

(01:11:56) Outro

Where to find Ryan:

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Williams_(computer_scientist)

• Website: https://people.csail.mit.edu/rrw/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/r-ryan-williams-a1b534a/

• X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/rrwilliams

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Some Estimated Likelihoods for Computational Complexity: https://people.csail.mit.edu/rrw/likelihoods.pdf

• Simulating Time with Square-Root Space: https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.17779

• Cook and Mertz's tree evaluation paper: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3618260.3649664

Charlie Marsh is the founder of Astral, the Python devtool startup that was acquired by OpenAI. I inteviewed him about how software engineering is changing and learnings from starting his own company as an engineer.

• My ergonomic keyboard project I mentioned, you can follow along here: https://read.compose.llc/

• The Kickstarter page for it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done

Podcast links:

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/Iw65FD4MGgs

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/openai-eng-and-dev-tools-founder

Thank you to this episode's sponsor for supporting my work:

• WorkOS: makes your app Enterprise Ready with easy to use APIs to add SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more in just a few lines of code, check them out at https://workos.com/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:40) Origin story

(06:04) The front page of Hacker News

(14:35) Why he chose Rust

(20:10) Full codebase migration from Zig to Rust

(28:40) LLM generated code and open source

(35:34) Performance optimizations

(44:54) Optimization with AI and combating slop

(01:02:08) Learnings as an eng starting a company

(01:17:55) Top technical talk recommendation

(01:18:56) Advice for his younger self

(01:22:00) Outro

Where to find Charlie:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marshcharles/

• GitHub: https://github.com/charliermarsh

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/charliermarsh

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Referenced in this episode:

• Python tooling could be much, much faster: https://notes.crmarsh.com/python-tooling-could-be-much-much-faster

• The coolest PR he's ever seen: https://github.com/astral-sh/uv/pull/789

• Andrew Kelley’s data-oriented design talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IroPQ150F6c

• Ruff: https://github.com/astral-sh/ruff

• uv: https://github.com/astral-sh/uv

• ty: https://github.com/astral-sh/ty

• Salsa: https://github.com/salsa-rs/salsa