The Shift with Sam Baker

My guest today is back by popular demand.

Mary Portas, businesswoman, author, activist and retail expert, was my guest this time last year in a live episode, where we talked about her childhood, growing up and falling in love with - wait for it - retail - not, I stress NOT, fashion. We discussed all things 90s, ab fab and her years of growing up alongside her career turning Harvey Nichols into a household name. The ground she covers in her book, I Shop Therefore I am, which is out now in paperback.

(By the way, you’ll find that episode wherever you get your podcasts - just search Mary Portas, The Shift - but here's the link to make life easy for you.)

And there we stopped, but you wanted more. You wanted to know about her life after that, her midlife experience of moving on, starting her own business, reprioritising life after divorce, getting in touch with herself and finding her spiritual side. The second half, if you like, or perhaps the second third. And Mary was happy to oblige!

Mary joined me to talk about her life and work ethos and how it’s changed as she’s got older. She’s incredibly open about how it felt to lose almost everything at 60 and how she pulled herself back up again. Plus choosing to be happy, finding her spiritual side at 40 and learning not to hang on to stuff that doesn’t hang on to you.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, includingI Shop Therefore I Am by Mary Portas, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, ⁠⁠⁠The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too⁠⁠⁠, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the South African-born author, journalist and playwright Gillian Slovo.

Now 74, Gillian has written thirteen novels, including Red Dust which was made into a movie starring Chewitel Ejiofor and Hilary Swank, and Ice Road which was shortlisted for the women’s prize for fiction. She has also written four ‘verbatim’ plays including Grenfell which was a hit in the West End and transferred to broadway in 2024, won an Amnesty Award and been awarded a golden PEN.

In short Gillian’s career is a success by anyone’s definition.

But amongst this immense body of work, it is her memoir, Every Secret Thing, about what it means to grow up as the child of two political and cultural icons for which she is perhaps best known. Because Gillian is also the middle daughter of Joe Slovo and Ruth First, two legends of the South African anti-apartheid movement. As a child, her living room was filled with political giants, including ANC leader Nelson Mandela.

Quite the legacy to grow up with. And it’s a legacy she continues to explore by way of fiction in her latest thriller Inheritance. In which a crime writer is driven to explore her family’s dark past when her estranged sister dies and leaves her an unlikely Inheritance.

Gillian joined me to talk about growing up surrounded by political giants, living with a family legacy and how she learnt not to be haunted by her mother’s murder. We also discussed the power of sisterhood, losing your adolesence, the freedom of recognising there is no one answer and how she’s embracing her 8th decade. Oh, and that time she went drinking with Martha Gellhorn!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Inheritance by Gillian Slovo, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, ⁠⁠The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too⁠⁠, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the former model turned leading nutritionist Rose Ferguson.

At the age of 15, Rose was discovered in McDonalds on Oxford Street by the legendary 90s photographer, Corrine Day. For a decade or more, Rose was her muse and her face and body were synonymous with the 90s aesthetic.

But modelling is rarely for life, so just after the birth of her third daughter, Rose stepped away went back to school. She studied at the London College of Naturopathic medicine and is now a leading nutritionist and functional medicine practitioner with a string of letters after her name and a successful clinical practise

She is also a firm believer that the old idea that getting older is a process of attrition, that we just have to accept we can’t do what we used to do, feel how we used to feel, be who we used to be is just that, an old idea suitable only for the bin.

Hence, The Reset, her four week plan to feeling better than ever is aimed squarely at those of us in midlife and beyond who are finding our stress levels are higher and our energy levels are lower and our middles are, well, bigger. Or maybe that’s just me. But I think not.

Rose joined me for some 90s nostalgia, to talk about making the move from model to health guru and give us a guided tour of the reset. We also discussed, people pleasing, imposter syndrome, gut health, osteopenia, insomnia and why you can’t out-supplement a shit diet!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including The Reset by Rose Ferguson, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, ⁠⁠The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too⁠⁠, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to season 23 (!) of The Shift podcast, and this first episode is very close to my heart. Domestic abuse is something I have spent a lot of my adult life campaigning about, so I could not be more honoured that today’s guest is Denise Brown, older sister of Nicole Brown Simpson who was killed by her husband, American footballer OJ Simpson, on 13 June 1994, at the age of 35.

And that is the last time we will say his name during this episode because this conversation is not about him. It is about her, Nicole. A woman who did not get to live over half of her life. Who did not get to see her children grow up, did not meet her grandchildren, did not get to age or moan about wrinkles or the irritations of life after 40…

And sadly - enragingly - Nicole is far from alone. In the UK, one in four women will experience intimate partner abuse in their lifetime. In the US that number rises to one in three.

That’s something Denise Brown is determined to do something about. In the three decades since her sister’s murder, Denise has devoted herself to raising awareness of intimate partner abuse, touring the United States, speaking at shelters, fundraising and working to change the law.

Now, she has written a book, For My Sister Nicole: Love Shouldn’t Hurt – What to Know About Domestic Violence⁠. A powerful, heartbreaking must read, it is also packed with resources to help recognise and tackle abuse. Her hope is that it will help save lives like her sister’s.

Denise joined me from a hotel room in Manhattan, where she is currently on tour, to talk about the loss of Nicole, her lifelong mission to change the way we view intimate partner abuse, why relationship abuse doesn’t just affect younger women and how it feels to reach 69 without her sister.

In the UK, call the national domestic abuse helpline on 0808 2000 247, or visit Women’s Aid. In the US, the domestic violence hotline is 1-800-799-SAFE (7233). In Australia, the national family violence counselling service is on 1800 737 732. Other international helplines may be found via http://www.befrienders.org/.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including For My Sister Nicole: Love Shouldn’t Hurt – What to Know About Domestic Violence, by Denise Brown, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, ⁠The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too⁠, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today has blazed a trail through the British poetry scene ever since her work was first published in 1991. Born in Edinburgh, Jackie Kay MBE was brought up in Glasgow by her adoptive parents, Helen and John Kay, of whom much more later.

She has had countless poetry collections, short stories and novels published to acclaim, as well as her glorious memoir Red Dust Road which tells the story of meeting her birth parents. The winner of over 20 awards, Jackie is a professor of creative writing at Salford University and for five years she was the Scottish Makar (that’s basically poet laureate).

Her new collection May Dayis an elegy to her beloved parents who (died within a year of each other) and taught her the meaning and power of protest. Something Jackie took to heart marching for women’s rights, gay liberation and Black Lives Matter.

I went to Glasgow to meet Jackie while she was on tour. Her beloved older brother Maxie had just died and she spoke candidly about love, loss and absence, living with nothing between you and the sky and how poetry helps her survive. We also discussed coming back into yourself in your 50s and 60s, why there should be lists after white male writer’s names, the art of living together apart and why her emotional age is 150!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including May Day by Jackie Kay and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at https://theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com/

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

I first encountered today’s guest, Marina Benjamin, when I was researching The Shift book and stumbled across her memoir, The Middlepause. An insightful look at what middle age means today, it was prompted by Marina’s own sudden menopause after a hysterectomy. The sense of dislocation she described was the first time I’d ever seen the way I felt put down in black and white.

She followed it up with Insomnia (clue’s in the name) and has now completed her loose midlife trilogy with A Little Givea stunning book about the “unsung, unseen, undone work women do” - and what happens when we tire of being a human rehab centre for everyone around us.

I inhaled this book, dog-earing page after page and internally yelling YES! and I’m pretty sure you will too.

Marina joined me to talk about emotional labour, why “cleaner guilt” doesn’t seem to affect men (strange that!), time poverty and wresting control of the to-do ticker tape. We also discussed why women’s manual work is invisible and men’s is a skill, how to get maximum benefit from your feminist inner critic, the two way pain of caring for elderly parents and why you should always ALWAYS run towards yourself.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including A Little Give: the unseen, unsung, undone work of womenby Marina Benjamin and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too,by me.

* And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including transcripts of the podcast, please consider joining The Shift community. Find out more at https://theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com/

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

I can’t be cool about today’s guest, so I’m not even going to try. Ever since I started The Shift I have had a Wishlist and high up on it from day one was Dame Zandra Rhodes.

Yes, that Zandra Rhodes. There can only be one after all.

For over 50 years, Zandra has been a leading figure in the British fashion industry, renowned for her prints and her use of colour.

Over the years she has dressed everyone from Princesses Diana to Freddie Mercury, Diana Ross and Debbie Harry, and collaborated with everyone from M&S to Ikea. Zandra is nothing if not egalitarian.

Now 83 (and in remission from the terminal cancer she was diagnosed with at the start of covid), she has no plans to stop any time soon, as evidenced by her new book Iconic, My Life in Fashion in 50 Objects, a whistle-stop tour through her incredible life hanging out with ossie clark, lunching with Truman Capote, making a lifelong friend of legendary vogue editor Diana Vreeland.

Which is how I get to be on my way to Bermondsey to hang out at her fabulous flat to talk about her equally fabulous life. I know!

Zandra and I sat down with a cuppa to discuss how a “boring little girl” became synonymous with big, bold, uncompromising style, her lifelong workaholism, living a child-free life, using clothes as armour and the rejection that was the making of her...

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Iconic: My Life in Fashion in 50 Objects by Zandra Rhodes and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com.

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at https://theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com/

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

You can be swimming along nicely and then all of a sudden everything you thought you had is gone.

That’s what happened to today’s guest, the best-selling Irish novelist, Louise O’Neill.

She was 38 and had just taken on a big mortgage with her partner of five years when he blindsided her by pulling the plug. In the wake of losing the future she thought she wanted, suddenly everything she’d achieved throughout her career lost its meaning.

Known for her fearless feminist writing, Louise had written six award-winning novels and been compared to Margaret Atwood.

For months she struggled. Then, heartbroken but defiant, she made a decision: she was going to spend the next year saying yes to everything that comes her way - except the one thing society teaches women to say yes to, settling for the first man who shows an interest.

The result is her first memoir, A Bigger Life, about that radical experiment in learning to bet big - on yourself.

Louise joined me to talk about the Christmas her life descended into chaos and her subsequent midlife dating odyssey. We also discussed the eating disorder that devoured her, why we still ask ‘why didn’t you leave?’, the downside of her crack-on, can do mentality, learning to recognise your own appetites, putting the humanity back into dating, feeling younger at 41 than 31, and why she really really doesn’t want her parents to read her book!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including A Bigger Life by Louise O'Neillas well as the book that inspired this podcast, ⁠The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too⁠, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and this episode was edited by Kelsey Bennett at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's two and a half years since I first interviewed Miranda July for this podcast and wow, what a change! Her novel All Fours became a must-read, got shortlisted for the Women's Prize and has been optioned for screen - a far cry from the moment she asked me, will you have my back? We did Miranda, we did! Here it is again...

Every so often you get the chance to interview someone whose work has fascinated you for, well, forever. And today is one of those days.

Miranda July is an artist, performer, film maker and writer who has been doing it her own way since she was in her teens. She has made three films - The Future, Me and You and Everyone We Know and Kajillionaire, held countless exhibitions, written several books and won a bunch of awards. You get the picture.

Now 50, Miranda has turned her attention to midlife with her first novel in a decade. All Fours is a painful, poignant, hilarious and extremely hot exploration of what happens when “a curious, creative, sexually active woman reaches the midpoint of her life, goes off the oestrogen cliff and starts to question her direction?”

It is wholly unlike anything else I’ve read about this life stage. And is sure to change a few games.

Miranda joined me to talk about her own trip off the oestrogen cliff, reimagining relationships as we get older, conscious co-parenting and moving into the house in the backyard. We also discussed the menopause whisper network, outing herself as “no longer young”, getting out of the anxiety cul de sac and why ageing is “unexpectedly wild”.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including All Foursby Miranda July and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at https://theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com/

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the writer and award-winning poet Rachel Eliza Griffiths.

Eliza is a woman who has been through A LOT in a short space of time. In September 2020, on the day she married her second husband, the globally renowned novelist Salman Rushdie, her best friend of 17 years, her ‘chosen sister’ Kamila Aisha Moon, died. Then, eleven months later, in the midst of her grief, her husband was brutally attacked as he prepared to go on stage to give a talk. For a time his life hung in the balance.

Salman survived, with life-changing injuries, and the dual traumas left Eliza transformed forever.

Now, five years on, Eliza has written her first memoir, The Flower Bearers, in which she revisits those two terrible griefs and the glorious relationships that lay at its foundations. It’s a story of friend love, romantic love and self-love, of trauma and recovery, and it’s a gut punch.

Eliza joined me from her home in Manhattan to talk about her two great loves, Aisha and Salman, and how she found her way through a kaleidoscope of grief. We also discussed the importance of not prioritising romantic love and why everyone needs an inner village of women, being denied access to your intuition, her extensive toolbox of coping mechanisms, learning to swim in her 40s and Tina Turner.

• The documentary Eliza refers to in this conversation is KNIFE: The attempted murder of Salman Rushdie, directed by Oscar Winner Alex Gibley and including never before seen footage shot by Rachel Eliza Griffiths. It's released on 2 October.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including The Flower Bearers by Rachel Eliza Griffiths⁠as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest this week is the actor, playwright, screenwriter, novelist and multi-award winner Dame Meera Syal.

Most of us have those people we grow up alongside and it feels like Meera has always been a fixture in my life, ever since I first saw her in the 80s film, Sammi and Rosie Get Laid. She’s been writing, performing and breaking new ground ever since and now in her early 60s she still is.

In the early 90s she wrote the brilliant film Bhaji on the Beach, co-wrote and starred in the utterly groundbreaking Goodness Gracious Me and gave us the unforgettable character, Ummi, in the Kumars at Number 42.

She’s hardly been off our screens and stages ever since. She’s also written three novels - including Anita and Me which she turned into films. She’s won Emmys - two I think - been awarded a BAFTA fellowship, a CBE, an MBE and now a damehood.

Now she’s looking back over her life in her first memoir, which I have to say, has the best title ever, Vigilauntie.

Meera joined me to talk about growing up Brown in the 70s and wearing the wobbly crown of the good girl while feeling driven to be a bad one. We discussed the wasted potential of older women, writing to survive, the battle to level the playing field and finding herself in an emergency care crisis in her 50s. Plus being a Triple Bad Bet (Old Female and Brown) and why she’s reclaiming Auntie power. I could go on, but I’ll let her tell you herself. I just know you’re going to love this conversations as much as I did.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Vigilauntie by Meera Syal,as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Kelsey Bennett at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the fashion designer and entrepreneur turned novelist Tabitha Webb.

What can I tell you about Tabitha - other than her life makes mine look extremely dull?

She ran away from university, chased a hot surfer to America, was a roller blading extra in the movie Birdcage and got held up at gunpoint.

Then, despairing of finding the bag she wanted, she decided to design her own and a fashion career was born. Tabitha Webb became a go to for celebrities in the noughties. And when I say celebrities I mean the Princess of Wales (then Kate Middleton), not just any old reality TV starr. But fashion is a tough old world and at the end of last year, her label went into liquidation.

But like the heroines of her novels, Tabitha is not easily defeated, and in her late 40s she turned her hand to fiction. She wrote her first romance novel, the Jilly Cooper esque No Regrets in 2020 and has now followed it up with the extremely fun sex-filled romp, Playing The Field.

Tabitha joined me to talk about her blind faith that anything is possible, being an older mum and the menopause puberty collision, and why she can’t stand the way her husband breathes! We also discussed her fantastic mum who ‘doesn’t want an old man breathing down her neck!’, (there’s that breathing again!) being resolutely uncool, how it felt to turn her back on the fashion label she put so much into and the joy of ‘climbing your second mountain.’

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Playing The Field by Tabitha Webb, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the Australian writer and thinker, Charlotte Wood.

Charlotte is the celebrated author of seven novels and three books of non-fiction. I first encountered her with her novel, The Natural Way of Things, which won the Stella Prize (the Australian equivalent of the Women’s Prize) in 2016. Then, my favourite, The Weekend, which follows three women in their 70s as they clear the house of their dead friend over the course of a weekend, became an international bestseller. She followed it up with Booker Prize shortlisted Stone Yard Devotional. In short, In her mid-50s her career became rocket fuelled.

But we’re here to talk, amongst other things, about… food. I know right?!

Because Charlotte is not just a critically acclaimed writer, she is also an excellent cook. And in Love And Hunger, she writes about the gift of food, friendship and caring through cooking.

Charlotte joined me from her home in Sydney to talk about our mutual adoration of the Australian novelist Helen Garner, challenging cultural representations of older women, what to do with old friends and getting diagnosed with cancer at the same time as BOTH her sisters. The lure of the stripped back life, why she lives in fear of becoming a boring annoying old person and our mutual loathing of home economics!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Love & Hunger by Charlotte Wood, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Kelsey Bennett at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the award-winning comedian and podcaster Helen Thorn. The co-creator of the comedy duo and hit podcast, Scummy Mummies, Helen travels the UK performing in a gold catsuit. Which might scream confidence to you, but her books tell a different story.

She is also the bestselling author of Get Divorced, Be Happy and How To Face Big Change and Come Back Stronger, which harness her trademark hope, humour and honesty to look at what it takes to go from a broken mess living on booze fags and cream eggs post-divorce to marathon running whizz. Or, as she puts it, 'how to bounce back from life’s shittest moments'!

Helen joined me to mess around, frankly! But when she wasn’t, she told me the crazy, horrifying story of surviving her divorce - and honestly, if you think your ex is a piece of work, you aint seen nothing (and I mean nothing!) yet.

We also discussed the cult of the hopeless man, shaking off the cringe cloak of embarrassment, the joy of growing your own future, learning to celebrate small wins, losing your thirtysomething life blinkers, distinguishing peace from boredom and why peak midlife shit is where the magic happens!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including ⁠⁠How To Face Big Change and Come Back Stronger by Helen Thorn as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the bestselling novelist Jennie Godfrey. Jennie has experienced the kind of midlife turnaround most of us can only dream of.

She started her career working in HR and rose to the top of her chosen industry working for a large corporation. Life was a whirlwind of high powered meetings, swanky job titles, frocks and heels - and boozing to release the pressure valve. Cue burn out - and drying out!

In her mid 40s, in the midst of what she now knows was perimenopause, Jennie took voluntary redundancy and stepped back from her corporate job. Without a packed diary and a plan for the first time in decades she took a job in her local bookshop and signed up for a creative writing course.

There she started writing her debut novel, The List of Suspicious Things,loosely inspired by her childhood growing up in West Yorkshire during the reign of the Yorkshire Ripper. It became the subject of a massive publisher auction, went to number one in the Sunday Times Bestseller lists and was the biggest debut of 2024. Now she’s followed it up with The Barbecue at No9, set in the summer of 1985 amidst the biggest music event in history, Live Aid.

Jennie came to my flat to hang out with sausage the cat and talk about what it’s been like living the fairytale publishing dream. But don’t hate her! We also discussed how it felt to lose herself both physically and mentally in her 40s, how she recognises balance when she swings past it, growing up as a ‘glass child’, becoming visible in her 50s and rediscovering her lighthearted teenage self thanks to kitchen discos.

Hear Jennie talking about The List of Suspicious Things to The Shift bookclub.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including ⁠The Barbecue at No.9 by Jennie Godfrey as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

Where do you turn when the identity you’ve clung to for decades slips away? That’s the position today’s guest, Jane Green, found herself in at 55. Her solution? She packed a case and ran away!

Anyone who was a fan of women’s commercial fiction (aka chicklit, ugh) in the 90s and noughties will know Jane’s name. Along with Marian Keyes and Helen Fielding, she ruled the roost. She wrote 21 novels - the first of which, Jemima J, was right up there with Bridget Jones in the states. And for a while, they were piled high in bookshops all over the world. Until they weren’t...

But now her subject is herself and I guarantee her story will make you want to chuck it all in and move to Morocco!

Rewilding is her first memoir and recounts the breakup of her 24 year marriage and what came next. At 55, realising she had vanished inside the trappings of her Instagram-worthy life, Jane left the marital home on the East Coast of America with only a suitcase and went to Marrakech. Once she got over the shock and terror of being alone after bringing up four children, she set about the job of rewilding herself, dropping the armour that had seen her through her adult life and stripping herself back to the original Jane. Several years on Jane is living proof that she wasn’t escaping her life, but reclaiming it.

Jane joined me to talk about the long process of returning to herself from a life she no longer recognised. We also discussed the gift of menopause, the curse of perfection, Why no-one should ever give up financial independence, being a ‘walkaway wife’, learning to recognise red flags, facing the fear, And how to answer the question: how did I get stuck in a life I don’t recognise?

2 more things before we start:

• Firstly, Apologies if the sound is iffy in places. (I mean, it IS iffy!) Jane was sitting outside because of the heat so we were dealing with a lot of erm…external noises!

• Secondly, and if, by the end of this, your heart is beating faster, Jane is hosting a 5 day rewilding retreat in Marrakech in October. Find out more at https://www.kitabamarrakech.com/

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Rewilding by Jane Green as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to SEASON 22(!) of The Shift with Sam Baker podcast. That's 300 fascinating conversations with women in midlife and beyond, if you're new here and fancy diving in. (To think that when I started it back in 2020, I thought I'd only do six!)

My guest today is Sarah Hiscox. Now a counsellor for NA and AA, amongst other things, the first three and a half decades of Sarah’s life were marked by turbulence and addiction.

Sarah was just eight years old when she first experienced the oblivion drugs can bring - in that case through sleeping pills (mogadon, if you can believe it) - and a young mother by the time she became addicted to heroin.

In her memoir, The Beginning And End Of Everything, Sarah looks candidly at the childhood experiences that shaped her and how ‘the hole inside my being’ led her to lose her marriage and custody of her children. Somehow, after repeated relapses, thanks to her sister, Belinda, then ex-husband Renshaw, and best friend of thirty-odd years, Davina McCall, she got it all back. Sarah has now been clean for 24 years. So, if you’re looking for hope when it feels like all hope has gone, you’ll find it here.

Sarah joined me to talk about self esteem and the life long impact of never feeling enough, the shame surrounding disordered eating and the difficulty of caring for a parent who never cared for you. We also discussed sisterhood and the power of female friendship, how she finally got off the misery go round, overcoming her personal committee of critics and finding purpose at 50.

CW: anorexia bulimia addiction suicidal ideation

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including The Beginning and End of Everything by Sarah Hiscox as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ever since I wrote about Stacey Duguid's campaign to shine a light on women's midlife career crisis loads of you have messaged me to say, 'Get her on the podcast!' Well, I have news for you - Stacey has been on the podcast! She first shared her midlife experience with me in September 2023, but now she's made it her mission to life the lid on the secret midlife career shame so many of us are suffering it felt like the right time to revisit our conversation. This is not about the unfolding career crisis but I think there's so much here that will resonate with you. Here it is...

Before I got to know today’s guest, Stacey Duguid, I thought she was a bit scary TBH. Fierce in all the ways. And then I got to know her - when I was editor of Red and she worked on Elle - and discovered she wasn’t. At all.

Because Stacey, like so many of us, is just exceptionally good at putting on a front. And that front served her well, until it didn’t. She was 45 when everything collapsed. Or, more accurately, she put a grenade under it. The thing she’d been trained to want ever since she was tiny: the house, the husband, the children, the career, the happy ever after. All blown to smithereens.

Now 49, a single mum and a successful journalist, very much back from the brink, Stacey has written In Pursuit of Happiness, the most brilliant book about a midlife collapse and ultimately recovery. I know you are going to love it.

As candid in person as she is in print, Stacey talks frankly about the pain of divorce, searching for a self you’ve never met, self-blame, “hotness syndrome”, perimenopause mayhem (and I mean MAYHEM), making peace with her mother, rediscovering her creativity, midlife sexuality and… toyboywarehouse.com.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including In Pursuit of Happiness by Stacey Duguid, and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.

* And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on instagram @theothersambaker

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode first aired in the summer of 2022. I'm replaying it now because Altered Images are going back on the road this autumn, touring their iconic album, Happy Birthday, 45 years (45!!!) after its release....

I can’t remember the first time I met my friend Clare Grogan. But like many Gen-Xers, I remember the first time I saw her in the cult movie Gregory’s Girl, and then, later the same year, on Top of the Pops with Altered Images, performing the band’s top 10 hits Happy Birthday and I Could Be Happy. (I have a bit of a soft spot for that last one.)

Still in her teens, she was living a life the rest of us could only dream of. Until, at 25, with three top ten albums under her belt, she left it all behind so she could, as she puts it, “feel where I came from again”.

Since then she has had countless presenting and acting roles in everything from Eastenders to Skins. And now, 38 years after her last outing, she’s back with a new Altered Images album Mascara Streakz.

Clare zoomed in to talk about deciding where you want to go in life, doing every show like it might be your last and being back on the road at 60. We discussed the unexpected impact of her daughter hitting the age she was when Altered Images hit the big time, her “difficult 40s” and why it’s never too late to start a band.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at Bookshop.org, including the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me!

* And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including transcripts of the podcast, please join The Shift community. Find out more at https://theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com/

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode first aired June 2022...

This week’s guest will make you wonder what you do with your time! Sabrina Pace-Humphreys is an award-winning business woman, a social justice activist, an ultra-runner, a mother of four and grandmother of three. (And as if that wasn't enough, right now, as of June 19th 2022, she's running 268 miles along The Spine of the UK!) Not bad going for 44.

But it is none of those things that led her to write her memoir, Black Sheep - a story of growing up Black, on the poverty line, in small town England. As a child, and the only Black person in that town, she experienced constant bullying, verbal and physical racist abuse. She didn’t know who she was, or where she belonged.

Sabrina joined me to talk about why she’s decided it’s time to speak out about rural racism. The impact of growing up in a place where literally no-one looked like her and How she finally found the identity she craved. Sabrina is incredibly frank about burying herself in workaholism and alcoholism, her battles with anxiety, and how learning to run - after a lifetime of mocking runners! - saved her. If you’re looking for motivation to start running look no further. In fact, if you’re looking for motivation full stop, you’ve found it.

You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at Bookshop.org, including BLACK SHEEP by Sabrina Pace-Humphreys, and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me!

And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including transcripts of the podcast, please join The Shift community. Find out more at https://theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com/

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker.

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