Podcast
The Way Out Is In
This podcast series is aimed at helping us to transcend our fear and anger so that we can be more engaged in the world in a way that develops love and compassion.
Thich Nhat Hanh’s calligraphy ‘The Way Out Is In” highlights that the way out of any difficulty is to look deeply within, gain insights and then put them into practice.
"The Way Out is In" is co-hosted by Brother Phap Huu, Thich Nhat Hanh's personal attendant for 17 years and the abbot of Plum Village's Upper Hamlet, and Jo Confino, who works at the intersection of personal transformation and systems change.
The podcast is co-produced by the Plum Village App and Global Optimism, with support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation.
- Buddhism chart
- #2
- Episodes
- 122
- Releases
- Every two weeks
- Typical length
- 1 hr 36 min
- On air since
- 2021
- Latest episode
- 5 days ago
Episodes
122 episodes, newest first
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2 hr 3 min
A Love Letter to the Vietnameseness (Episode #117)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This special episode features a deep conversation about Vietnamese identity in the diaspora, led by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu, scholar Nho Tran, and acclaimed novelist Ocean Vuong.
The discussion explores Vietnameseness, the complexities of being Vietnamese in the West, and the challenges of maintaining cultural identity while adapting to new environments. The three speakers reflect on their personal journeys; the role of Buddhism in shaping their understanding of identity; the need to reject binary thinking and embrace the multifaceted nature of Vietnamese identity; the practice of joy; communal healing; the significance of filial piety; the role of language and tradition in preserving cultural heritage; honoring one’s roots while allowing for personal growth; and more.
With an intro by Jo Confino and a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Ocean Vuong
https://www.oceanvuong.com/Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingThe Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionThe Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95
The Way Out Is In: ‘Roots and Renewal (Episode #91)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/roots-and-renewal-episode-91The Way Out Is In: ‘Spiritual Friendship (Episode #90)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/spiritual-friendships-episode-90Maya Angelou
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_AngelouHoa Nguyenhttps://www.hoa-nguyen.com/
Édouard Glissant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard_GlissantSarah Ahmed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_AhmedParis by Night
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_by_NightThe white gaze
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gazeChinua Achebe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinua_AchebePaul Celan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_CelanHayao Miyazaki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_MiyazakiNina Simone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_SimoneOn Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Earth_We%27re_Briefly_GorgeousQuotes
“The first Dharma seal of our practice is, ‘I have arrived, I am home.’ And ‘arrive’, here, means to be with yourself and not feel disconnected from who you are.”
“How lucky we are that Thay offered us a practice where there isn’t a demand for perfection, but a demand for presence and a demand for love in all of its manifestations. That is a thing that begins to heal.”
“Part of what Buddhism has taught me is to be able to be brave and ferocious enough. I think people don’t understand the ferocity Buddhist practice demands of you. That’s why I love the idea of the wrathful deities – because Buddhism has been commodified in the West as self-help, corporate self-help especially: ‘Go calm down so you can answer more emails efficiently for the corporation.’”
“The things that I lean on most, every day, are Buddhist ideas of committing oneself fully with courage. Courage is very different from fearlessness, because fearlessness means there is no fear – but there’s a lot of fear in me. I don’t know about y’all, but, living in this world, there’s a lot of fear. But courage is doing something despite fear. Buddhism has given me that set of tools. And Thay’s being, Thay’s embodiment to walk out of turmoil and sitting calmly within oneself, is a tremendous power. That’s what a lot of Westerners don’t understand when they see someone like Thay. They’re like, ‘Wow, what a peaceful monk.’ Sure. But what I see is, ‘Wow, this is an impenetrable force of survival’ – and it feels so strong to me.”
“Buddhism is a way of being. It’s a way of being liberated in the present moment to give honor to all of the conditions that have come together to give you this moment.”
“Fear becomes knowledge and knowledge becomes progress.”
“Joy is an act of resistance.”
“Our practice is a practice of joy. Yes, we take suffering seriously, but joy is the name of the game.”
“Something I want to say to young Asian-American artists is that just because a white audience is bored of your pain, you don’t need to start tap dancing for that audience. You get to engage with your history robustly. And it’s up to you to navigate that on your terms and not fall into being swayed by audience fatigue. Because trends come and go. Some people will find diasporic violence interesting; some people will find it overdone. But you’re not beholden to them – you’re beholden to how you want to tell your story, as thoroughly as you want.”
“Sometimes we perpetuate the white gaze among each other. That’s a well-documented colonial artifact: once the empire retreats, its tools – material, psychological, and structural – are picked up and implemented, often right away, to abuse one another.”
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1 hr 33 min
Trust in Life (Episode #116)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino discuss the concept of ‘trust in life’. Together, they explore how Buddhist teachings can help us to navigate the tension between accepting life as it is and wanting to control it.
The conversation further touches on the challenges of modern life, such as information overload and the tendency to seek quick fixes, and how these can be addressed through mindful practices; the role of suffering in personal growth and the importance of being present with one’s experiences; developing inner trust and understanding; the role of mindfulness, direct experience, and discernment in cultivating trust; the significance of simplicity, listening, and the practice of ‘beginner’s mind’ in spiritual growth; the Buddhist concept of aimlessness; and more.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Brother Phap Ling (Brother Spirit)
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linhInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingThe Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionThe Sun My Heart
https://www.parallax.org/product/the-sun-my-heart/Mahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahayanaDharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsOcean Vuong
https://www.oceanvuong.com/Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18Quotes
“Trust in God, but don’t forget to tie up your camel.”
“Understanding is love, is peace – because, when we understand suffering, we don’t want to create more suffering.”
“If we listen deeply, we can see how many conditions we have to generate the understanding that allows us to have joy and happiness in the present moment.”
“As a human being, we all have a spiritual dimension, and it’s not far away. It’s not found in a retreat. It’s not found in a monastery. It is everywhere. It’s in the ultimate dimension, the historical dimension. It’s in the trees. It is us. But we’re not able to activate it – our collective culture doesn’t allow us to tap into that. We have been afraid of being sensitive, of having empathy, and it’s hard to be in a world where we’re not conditionedto be with our feelings.”
“Thay said not to bring your intellectual mind into Dharma talks, because it will try to agree or disagree. The intellectual mind will try to consume the understanding, which becomes a blockage to deeper understanding of your deepest potentials.”
“In Buddhist Zen Mahayana literature, sometimes we have to be a learner, and sometimes we have to let go of the learning because it’s enough. Just practice. Enjoy the present moment.”
“Sometimes we draw a graph and think growth is always going up or being solid. But, sometimes, growth is knowing that we’re suffering but not being carried away by it – just being present and holding it and listening to it.”
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1 hr 10 min
Asking for Help (Episode #115)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino discuss the difficulty of asking for help, exploring the cultural and personal barriers that can prevent people from seeking assistance. They emphasize the importance of recognizing indirect requests for help, and the need for compassion and presence when one is asked for help; the role of community and nature in providing support; and the necessity of self-forgiveness and self-care.
The conversation underscores collective responsibility for addressing societal issues, and the power of shared vulnerability in fostering deeper connections. The hosts also share practical steps, from both teachings and their own lives.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBrother Phap Ling (Brother Spirit)
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linhInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingThe Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionWake Up Retreat 2026
https://plumvillage.org/articles/wake-up-retreat-2026-am-i-good-enoughThe Four Mantras of Love
https://plumvillage.org/gems/event/The-Four-Mantras-of-Love-V2DFQvyDMgD3NEx7GTKfXzEuropean Institute of Applied Buddhism
https://www.eiab.eu/Mahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahayanaThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89‘Beginning Anew’
https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/beginning-anew/The Way Out Is In: ‘True Love: Practicing in Relationships (Episode #31)’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/true-love-practicing-in-relationship-episode-31
Quotes
“Because we are alive, everything is possible.”
“Unfortunately, as humans, we tend to only recognize that something is really happening when we experience it.”
“The beauty of mindfulness and meditation is to welcome the vulnerability in ourselves.”
“For someone to ask for help, they need someone to be compassionate.”
“When you can listen deeply, you can hear what the other person is not saying.”
“Asking for help is a leadership skill.”
“People think the environment is outside of themselves – but they are the environment.”
“We need to turn to ourselves, to take responsibility and to forgive ourselves, and then reach out to people in a way that benefits them. Because, when we ask for help, we give them permission to also experience that.”
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1 hr 28 min
Paths of Change and Resistance (Episode #114)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication. Together, they explore the significance and offerings of the Plum Village community – a sanctuary of peace, healing, and mindfulness, in stark contrast to the fast-paced, consumer-driven world outside.
The three speakers further discuss the importance of a physical environment for spiritual practice, where individuals can reconnect with their true selves; the value of community living, where monastics share a collective career and work towards the flourishing of the community rather than individual success; the relevance of the five mindfulness trainings, which serve as ethical guidelines for personal and societal transformation; and much more.
The conversation also touches upon the need for support to maintain and expand the Plum Village facilities, the importance of generosity, and the impact of supporting engaged monastic communities.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionThe Bodhisattva vow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vowThe Five Mindfulness Trainings
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainingsThe Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainingsEs Devlin
https://esdevlin.com/Rebecca Solnit
https://www.rebeccasolnit.net/The Way Out Is In: ‘Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/stepping-into-freedom-live-recording-with-qa-session-episode-67The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95Quotes
“Plum Village emerged from our teacher’s vision of how the world could look and feel different from mainstream society. From the beginning, Plum Village has been a community of resistance. We could even call it a community of resilience: a physical environment that holds different values to the mainstream consciousness. We can all recognize those values. It might be unbridled capitalism, craving, consumerism, violence, or excesses of different kinds that we see in our immediate lives, around us, and in the economic and labor systems that we’re a part of. The vision for Plum Village was, ‘What if we create a physical environment that models entirely different values?’ Embodying those values is the resistance. For example, embodying peace, harmony, collectiveness, and community rather than individualism.”
“We need to reclaim our sovereignty from the machines of our creation.”
“Plum Village is holding an environment of peace and healing and freedom from the rat race; freedom from the world of technological overwhelm.”
“At a retreat, we are invited into a space of sharing our generosity in presence. We’re not sitting for ourselves: we’re sitting for the collective. When we are taking care of our emotions, we’re also taking care of the emotions of the collective, because we start to see the interbeing of the individual and the collective, their interconnectedness.”
“We organize our life in such a way that we are literally cultivating compassion, mindfulness, patience, and inclusiveness every day. We’re not perfect, but this is our work in progress and it’s quite noble and, though we struggle so much, we feel in our bones that we’re doing this work every day. It also allows me to have some faith in the future as we enter this period of disruption for society, for the climate, for agriculture, for nature – to be able to cooperate, to live cooperatively, to share resources, and to moderate and temper our needs. These are such important human practices. The qualities we’re holding here – compassion, mindfulness – are a treasure trove for future generations. These are exactly the values that we want to trust will still be there in decades and centuries to come.”
“In each hamlet are 50 or 60 monastics living together, cultivating non-violence in their speech, in their thinking, in their way of being, in their way of washing a bowl, in their way of brushing their teeth, in their ways of being with the mosquitoes. We’re living as an example of non-violence in the world. And then being able to lift that up into our engagement with everyone who comes to us. It may sound like we’re describing a bubble. But, because we are living in a constant relationship with the thousands of people that come and spend time with us every year, another way to describe us is as being like a river bank with a river flowing through it. We’re a gentle river bank that caresses the water for a little bit before it moves on back into the world. And so people have a chance to taste these energies that we’re generating as a collective here.”
“The only way that we are going to save ourselves from the collapse of civilization is through a collective awakening. Individual awakening is not enough.”
“We’re not going to sort everything out in this lifetime, but what we can offer is more tools, more practices, more understanding, more care, and more compassion for the next generation, so that they can carry this path forward into the future.”
“Thay has really expanded this home – it’s not just for the monks and nuns. The monastery is also open for the lay community to come in and taste true peace.”
“When you come to Plum Village for seven days and don’t drive a vehicle, that’s already an impact. When you’re vegetarian for seven days, that’s an impact. When you are not expressing anger for seven days, that’s an impact. When you’re listening to yourself and healing some blockage that’s been waiting for you to look at it and embrace it, that’s an impact. That’s healing. That is already work for your ancestors, work for society. And so the journey of a monastery – or we could call it a practice center – is important because it is also a place where we know we can put down our masks. It can become a great equalizer. Everyone here, we’re human beings; it doesn’t matter what titles we hold in the world outside. Here, in the monastery, there’s a power to the monastic’s presence.”
“It is very clear from the teachings of Thay and the Buddha, and from our own moral compasses, that, if we don’t take care of our suffering – our loneliness, our violence, and our hatred, by naming it and saying, ‘Okay, I’m co-responsible, and it is my responsibility to also transform this’ – we’re not going to change the system.”
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2 hr 11 min
You Are Already the Person You Want to Become – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #113)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This is our third live recording of the podcast made in London, England, in July, 2026, before a sold-out audience. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined on stage by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication to explore the idea that the answers to life’s issues are often found within ourselves, rather than externally, and that we are already the person we want to become.
The discussion includes reflections on the challenges of recognizing one’s own worth and the societal pressures that contribute to feelings of inadequacy; how mindfulness, presence, and community are essential in cultivating self-acceptance and personal transformation; the role of kindness in daily life; the power of the present moment in fostering personal and collective change; practicing self-compassion; and much more.
The conversation concludes with questions from the audience answered by the three speakers.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/Plum Village UK:
https://plumvillage.uk/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Sister True Dedication
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiemKoan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KoanInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionMeredith Monk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_MonkThe Way Out Is In: ‘Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/stepping-into-freedom-live-recording-with-qa-session-episode-67The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95Quotes
“Given everything that’s happening in the world, the person I’d like to become is this impossible person – a person who can find an answer to heal and stop all of the suffering, all of the injustice, all of the violence. We know that the pain and discomfort we feel in ourselves is not only a personal, individual discomfort; we’re feeling the pain of the world, and that’s reflected in our bodies and in our feelings. And so, when we can’t accept ourselves, or think we’re not enough, it’s also because we’re not enough in the face of all of this. How could we be?”
“All the suffering of the world is reflected in us in a really concrete way: we watch something on a screen and we have a bodily response. We feel the anxiety, we feel the tension. We felt the heat in the heat wave last week. And that’s doing something to us at an emotional level; a kind of existential fear is triggered. So that suffering is really visceral in us. But what’s really interesting is that there’s also the other side of this: if the suffering of the world is reflected in our bodies and in our minds, the beauty of the word is also there in us.”
“I understand how hard it is to not feel enough in the face of what I would like to do, or need to do, to respond to the world. But, at the same time, all of the goodness of the world is refracted and expressed in unique ways in each one of us. For me, that’s the key to unlocking the door to accepting myself.”
“Coming home to oneself and embracing the pain and the suffering is the first act of mindfulness.”
“Today we’re so afraid of our own pain, of our own suffering, and of our own capacity that we don’t engage anymore. We’re all in our little worlds. And part of the journey of becoming isn’t an individual matter, it’s about becoming as a whole society.”
“We really live in an era of optimization, and we need to pause for a moment and recognize how many parts of our lives we’re trying to optimize. That may be one of the sicknesses of this era. We can’t allow things to be as they are. So with all the mess going on in the world, the injustice and the violence and the inequality, we pick up these habits from the capitalist grind. But we’re not really offering a different energy.”
“Whether you’re in a shop, on the Tube, at work, or on a Zoom call, when something happens, if we have a default response to allow us to come back to our in-breath and out-breath, and take care of our nervous system and arrive back into ourselves, that’s already an act of kindness. We’re rescuing ourselves. We are giving ourselves a breather, literally.”
“Thich Nhat Hanh was very clear that what our society needs – what we all need – is a different way of being and a different quality of being. And he spoke about the preciousness of time. Time is not money, time is not success, time is not work. Time is life. And we know how short this time is that we have with our children, with our loved ones; the time we have is so short and so precious.”
“How we are being in time, how we are allowing the fullness of any moment to reveal itself, whether we’ve just had bad news or experienced a strong emotion, we can be with that in a certain way. And that is already action, that is already a response, and that’s already patterning something different into society.”
“I don’t really discriminate between micro-resistance and systemic resistance. But I do believe that, when we come together in community – like in moments like this, in the weekly sanghas that many of you are part of we’re reinforcing that capacity of breathing together as an act of resistance, walking together, listening deeply. And then that is penetrating into our lives. It makes us change makers, whether we call ourselves a change maker or not. That’s the Buddhist understanding of action, it’s acting at every level and it’s available to all of us. The closer we are to our truth, to our body, to our breathing, you will be surprised by the kind of courage that manifests.”
“Thay would say a smile can save someone’s life in the right circumstances.”
“Kindness for me is real and it’s a force that can shift and change.”
“Breathing is a life jacket. When those emotions really come, our teachers say you are more than one emotion. Come back and breathe. Don’t let that emotion take over your whole being because you’re so much more than just one emotion, you bring up another emotion to embrace it.”
“My dad would say, ‘One, two, three, smile.’ And we would smile, but we hated it also. But he has transmitted that reminder that even in the midst of agony, that smile is your right.”
“We don’t need to set aside time to be more true to ourselves, to be more true to our values, to be more free, and to be more awake to what’s going on. We can simply do it on our way to work. And what’s life for if it’s not for that? To feel that freedom, to feel that agency, and just to arrive fully into the richness, the mud, and the beauty of this life that we have a chance to be in.”
“Engaged Buddhism means bringing everything you’re learning into the here and now.”
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2 hr 3 min
Dharma and Business (Episode #112)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by special guest Pham Minh Huong, businesswoman and spiritual practitioner, to discuss integrating Buddhist teachings into the business world.
Pham Minh Huong shares her journey from being a successful but lonely CEO to one who prioritizes trust, mindfulness, and community in her companies – by adopting practices like servant leadership and consensus-building, and by creating a culture of compassion and collaboration. She emphasizes the importance of presence, authenticity, and the power of mindfulness in navigating crises and maintaining a balanced life, but reflects also on the challenges of integrating spirituality into a business world dominated by metrics and competativeness.
Brother Phap Huu shares his own experience as the abbot of Upper Hamlet, while Jo reflects on writing about sustainable businesses for The Guardian and on his current work as leadership coach.
The conversation highlights the potential for businesses to be a source of meaning, connection, and positive change when guided by spiritual principles.
Ms Pham Minh Huong has nearly 30 years of experience in the finance and banking sector. Having previously served as Head of Treasury and Financial Markets at Citibank N.A., she was among the first members to contribute to its operational growth. She is a visionary leader and a pioneer in introducing new products to the market. Her significant contributions to the securities community and her personal professional reputation have established her as a highly respected leader in Vietnam’s financial market.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBrother Phap Ung
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-chan-phap-ungInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeing‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-villageThe Way Out Is In: ‘Space, Time, and the Ultimate Dimension (Episode #54)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/space-time-and-the-ultimate-dimension-episode-54The Art of Power
https://plumvillage.org/books/the-art-of-powerQuotes
“Now I have a path, there is nothing to fear.”
“When I first came to Plum Village, I saw that things were very organized, but I didn’t see leaders. And when I asked, people said, ‘That’s because of Yidma.’ Yidma, in Buddha’s teaching, is about consensus. But, at that time, I couldn’t believe that we could run a business in a slow way and build democratic governance as per Thay’s vision.”
“Good teacher, good methodology, and good friends.”
“If everything is important, then, actually, nothing is important.”
“What Buddhism and what the Buddha and Thay offer us is another dimension of really asking the question, ‘What is happiness? What is success?’”
“Engage, trust – and then there’s cooperation. And when there is cooperation, there is power and the result will come. We have to trust in that.”
“Sometimes it’s via absence that people recognize their love. If you’re always there, there’s not always the opportunity for that.”
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1 hr 17 min
A Quiet Beauty in Everything (Episode #111)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino talk about finding beauty and reverence in the most ordinary of things.
Jo shares his new book, Between Earth and Sky, which documents his time in Mitla, Mexico, and his journey of deep looking and finding beauty in the seemingly empty land. Brother Phap Huu emphasizes the importance of mindfulness, stopping, and being present to see the wonder in everyday life.
The hosts further share the concept of consciousness in everything, and the need for reverence in our habits and interactions. The conversation also touches on reciprocity, the importance of community, and the journey of opening one’s heart through listening and acceptance.
The episode concludes with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu, to help listeners ground themselves in the present moment and to recognize the beauty in all life.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Between Earth and Sky
https://www.parallax.org/product/between-earth-and-sky/Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionOrder of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeingThe Way Out Is In: ‘Space, Time, and the Ultimate Dimension (Episode #54)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/space-time-and-the-ultimate-dimension-episode-54Mitla
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MitlaStephen Mitchell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Mitchell_(translator)Tao Te Ching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_ChingSamsara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81raPema Chödrön
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pema_Ch%C3%B6dr%C3%B6nQuotes
“We can see beauty everywhere.”
“When we feel alive and present on this Earth, what more do we need?”
“The first act of meditation is learning to stop. It is learning to take a pause and feel the present moment. And feeling the present moment is more important than thinking about the present moment, because, when we attune ourselves into our own body, into our senses, what we see, what we smell, what we hear, what we touch gives us an opportunity to be in touch with life in the very here and now.”
“We can sit and look at a tree or even look at a rock and find all of life in that.”
“This is it.”
“We want to know what’s out in space, but we don’t know what is in our inner space.”
“Depending on how we show up, our way of being can shift and change our whole mental formation, our whole consciousness of reality.”
“Reverence creates a sense of reciprocity because, when we have reverence, we are in conversation with whatever is in front of us. So when we think of things as objects, we’re looking at them as separate from ourselves. But when we have reverence for things, we see that they are talking to us as well as we are talking to them.”
“The beauty of Zen is turning a simple moment into a beautiful ritual.”
“Reverence is a manifestation of our mental formations.”
“I invite everybody to hold their next cup of tea, or coffee, or orange juice, with two hands. It shifts you into a different space. A simple action with two hands, and I’m fully present. Just like when we join our palms and offer a bow, it represents the body and the mind that come together.”
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1 hr 30 min
Hiking Zen (Episode #110)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Xa to explore the revolutionary aspect of walking meditation – not just a physical activity but a spiritual practice that can help us ground ourselves and connect with the present moment.
Brother Phap Xa – who co-authored the book Hiking Zen with Brother Phap Luu – shares practical tips for walking meditation, and personal experiences such as the way this type of meditation has helped him deal with strong emotions and transformed his perspective on life.
The conversation also touches on the concept of aimlessness in walking meditation, the importance of walking for the sake of walking, the benefits of walking in silence, the idea of walking with ancestors, the practice of walking for others, and more.
The episode concludes with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu, to help listeners connect with the present moment when walking.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Brother Phap Xa
https://www.parallax.org/authors/brother-phap-xa/Brother Phap Luu
https://www.parallax.org/authors/brother-phap-luu/Stephan Harding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephan_HardingHiking Zen
https://www.parallax.org/product/hiking-zen/Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionEIAB
https://www.eiab.eu/‘The Tortoise and the Hare’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_HareOld Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-clouds/The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18The Way Out Is In: ‘Guest Episode: Reconnecting with Gaia – A Deep Time Walk’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/guest-episode-reconnecting-with-gaia-a-deep-time-walkQuotes
“Don’t take another step until you really believe that you can walk in freedom.”
“When we speak about freedom in the practice, it’s freedom to be fully in the present moment, with every step that we take, with every action that we can accumulate.”
“Whenever I am in fifth gear, I know I need to go down to first gear. And I don’t see it as a slowing down, as a bad thing – I see it as an upgrade to the presence, to the quality of freedom.”
“Meditation is in every action. That’s the way we look at it in our tradition. Meditation is to be engaged in the way we stand, the way we sit, the way we move – even the way we lay down. There is an attention that comes from bringing our mindfulness to how we are in the present moment.”
“I have arrived; I’m home wherever I go.”
“When you walk, don’t talk; just walk. This is one of the most difficult practices.”
“The miracle is not to walk on water, the miracle is to walk on this earth.”
“Walking meditation is an important practice for coming back to the present moment, because then we can recognize that there are many wonders happening in the present moment, inside and around us. And it’s already a wonder to be able to breathe, and to be able to be in touch with the many forms and colors around us.”
“Walk for the sake of walking.”
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1 hr 59 min
Father (Episode #109)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino reflect on the passing of Brother Phap Huu’s father and the power of community in difficult moments, as well as considering insights into the teachings of no birth, no death.
This emotional conversation touches tender places and explores the Brother’s personal journey of grief and loss, from first hearing the news of his father’s stroke, to the funeral and the subsequent processing. Brother Phap Huu further explores his complicated relationship with his father, the sacrifices made by his parents, and his regret at not being able to fully express his gratitude and love.
Indeed, “It’s one thing to teach about ‘no birth, no death’, the passing of a loved one, but it’s a very different thing to experience it.”
The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Bodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_GayaBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeChristiana Figueres
https://www.globaloptimism.com/christiana-figueres‘The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainingsInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingJeta Grove
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetavanaJoan Halifax
https://www.joanhalifax.org/‘Listening to Namo Avalokiteshvara’
https://plumvillage.app/listening-to-namo-avalokiteshvara/Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongUpaya Zen Center
https://www.joanhalifax.org/upayaThe Way Out Is In: ‘Slow Down, Rest, and Heal: The Spirit of the Rains Retreat (Episode #7)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/slow-down-rest-and-heal-the-spirit-of-the-rains-retreatThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89Quotes
“Be kind in life because that kindness is something that you can never underestimate. It will come back. Just trust that.”
“For a lot of us immigrants in Canada, the temple was not just a spiritual and religious refuge, it was a cultural refuge. It was where we would see each other as Vietnamese. It was where we would smell the incense, eat the Vietnamese food, and hear the language… The temple was where we touched our little Vietnam and where everyone could feel that their longing was being answered by this community coming together.”
“The good training of Plum Village is to learn to see the flowers first.”
“It is never too late to say what needs to be said, even if someone has passed.”
“‘Enjoy and easy.’ Enjoy that no matter how hard life is, we can always taste joy. And no matter how hectic life is, learn to be at ease; be easy with yourself.”
“The practice of no birth, no death is also to see that life is also right here, right now.”
“For me, the practice of no birth and no death gives us permission to hold both and to not be tied down by only sorrow.”
“We’re here to connect the ultimate and the historical – not to see them as separate, but to bring them closer together.”
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1 hr 28 min
Renewing Buddhism – Live New Delhi Recording (Episode #108)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This episode was recorded live onstage in New Delhi, India, in February 2026, at the end of the pilgrimage In the Footsteps of the Buddha. Leadership coach Jo Confino was joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister Tam Muoi and Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss what it means to renew Buddhism, and Thich Nhat Hanh’s vision for doing so – including his emphasis on simplicity, equality, and making the teachings accessible and relevant to the contemporary world.
They also reflect on their 14-day pilgrimage in India, and how it deepened their understanding of and connection to the Buddha’s teachings. This includes Sister Tam Muoi’s insights about the strong sangha formed among the diverse group of 60 pilgrims from 16 different countries. She also reflects on her personal connection to India and her healing journey of reconnecting with the Buddha’s teachings in their land of origin.
Shantum Seth, who has been leading pilgrimages in India for over 30 years, explains the transformative power of these journeys in allowing people to connect with the Buddha as a human being and experience his teachings’ relevance to their own lives. He also shares plans for the Ahimsa Trust to establish a Plum Village center in India, to continue Thich Nhat Hanh’s legacy and bring the Dharma to a wider audience, especially a young one.
Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Sister Tam Muoi (Sister Samadhi) is from the UK and was ordained in 2012 and became a Dharma teacher in 2022. Having encountered the practice whilst living in France, she became engaged in the French lay sangha and was ordained into the Order of Interbeing in 2004. She is actively supporting the recently created Being Peace Practice Centre in the UK and is deeply committed to the work of healing ancestral harm, and to participation in trainings and retreats exploring White Awareness. Read more here.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth/Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com/Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com/Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionAdvaita Vedanta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_VedantaA Pebble for Your Pocket
https://www.parallax.org/product/a-pebble-for-your-pocket/Ashoka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AshokaBodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_GayaBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeDehradun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DehradunJamun Village
https://ahimsatrust.org/jamun-village/Jeta Grove
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetavanaNalanda University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_UniversityOld Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-cloudsPushyamitra Shunga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushyamitra_ShungaSarnath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SarnathSister Chan Duc
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-chan-ducSpittoon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpittoonThe Stone Boy and Other Stories
https://www.parallax.org/product/the-stone-boy-and-other-stories/Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89Vulture Peak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture_PeakXuanzang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XuanzangQuotes
“Often friends would tell Thay, ‘I try to do walking meditation. I find that difficult – but I love the sitting.’ And Thay would say, ‘Well, then sit. Do the practice that you enjoy.’ It’s so important to touch joy in whatever practice we do. It shouldn’t be hard work and creating more battles on your cushion.”
“Suffering is where we start. It’s your own suffering you have to handle. But also look at the suffering in the world. It’s not separate: other people’s suffering is your suffering; other people’s happiness is your happiness. That’s where we start. And then, know that all these things are interconnected. Nothing exists independently.”
“India is a great teacher because she’s confronting you all the time. That’s why we call her Mother India, I guess. She also challenges every preconception, and so, ‘Everything you say about India, the exact opposite is also true.’”
“It’s dangerous coming to India because you’re going to go back different.”
“Don’t believe something just because a teacher says it, or because it’s written in scripture, or has come from centuries-old tradition. Try it. And see how you feel.”
“Thay was a very revolutionary teacher because of his aspiration to make Buddhism relevant. He had seen the damage done by dogmatism, by fossilization. And so he was always thinking of new ways that we could make Buddhism appropriate.”
“Our precepts – the behavioral code for all the monastics and also for the lay friends – are rewritten every five or 10 years to update them. It’s quite extraordinary that Thay had the courage to do that; he faced criticism from many very traditional countries.”
“Something important about the Buddha Dharma is that it is very much about what we experience in this world. We’re not talking about something which is going to happen after some sort of transcendence. And that’s why I think the Buddha Dharma is relevant to our Earth: we have to care for this little planet of ours, we have to care for our rivers, we have to care for our climate, to care for each other. And it’s not about an outcome in some past or future life; the karma happens right here and now. Every action has a result and that result can be seen in this life and in this community.”
“You sit, you enjoy your breath, you get a little sense of being a Buddha for a moment. Maybe you can become a part-time Buddha, maybe a full-time Buddha. ‘Buddha’ just means ‘to be awake’ – and with mindfulness practice, being mindful is a type of awakening.”
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1 hr 35 min
In the Footsteps of the Buddha (6/6) | Loss and Transformation (Episode #107)
Show notes
This week’s show was recorded using an improvised audio recording setup while the podcast team was on pilgrimage through India. Thank you for your understanding. 🙏
If you wish to support our podcast, please visit this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The final in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Sravasti, India, in February 2026. In it, leadership coach Jo Confino is joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister Tam Muoi and Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to share their experiences and reflections as they visit Sravasti and Jeta Grove. They discuss the power of community, and how the sangha held space for grief when co-host Brother Phap Huu received news of his father’s passing.
They further explore themes of impermanence, non-attachment, transformation, the balance between the ultimate and historical dimensions in Buddhist teachings, and the importance of insight and practice. All three share personal stories illustrating these themes and the ways the pilgrimage has deepened their understanding of and connection to the Buddha’s legacy.
The episode concludes with the group singing a song composed by a fellow pilgrim, capturing the essence of the ‘way out is in’ teachings.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice – one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit http://www.buddhapath.com/, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.
Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Sister Tam Muoi (Sister Samadhi) is from the UK and was ordained in 2012, becoming a Dharma teacher in 2022. Having encountered the practice whilst living in France, she became engaged in the French lay sangha and was ordained into the Order of Interbeing in 2004. She is actively supporting the recently created Being Peace Practice Centre in the UK and is deeply committed to the work of healing ancestral harm, and to participation in trainings and retreats exploring White Awareness. Read more here.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth/Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com/Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com/Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionJeta Grove
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetavanaMangala Sutta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%E1%B9%85gala_SuttaAvalokiteshvara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalokite%C5%9BvaraSong: ‘No Coming, No Going’
https://plumvillage.org/library/songs/no-coming-no-going-songAnathapindika
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnathapindikaAnuruddha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnuruddhaTathagata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tath%C4%81gataShravasti
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShravastiSarnath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SarnathKushinagar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KushinagarDharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathAnapanasati Sutta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80n%C4%81p%C4%81nasati_SuttaAngulimala
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%E1%B9%85gulim%C4%81laDharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsPoem: ‘Please Call Me by My True Names’
https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/poem-please-call-me-by-my-true-namesLaurie Anderson
https://laurieanderson.com/Quotes
“Some non-attachments are more painful than others.”
“Thay talked about the fact that we allow 20% attachment; that we need to recognize we’re living in this life. And that we need to honor our feelings and our emotions in the historical dimension, whilst also in the ultimate dimension.”
“We can have joy and sadness at the same time. They do not cancel each other out.”
“We can have a moment of happiness and a moment of deep sadness, and we can contain both emotions at the same time.”
“Because of the years of practice, when the difficult time comes we’re able to meet it with a degree of equanimity and understanding and not be dragged into a vortex of despair and depression. We are able to meet the moment.”
“The matter of birth and death is as serious as if your turban is on fire.”
“The art of life is increasingly bringing the ultimate and historical dimensions together and recognizing that they inter-are.”
“Thay once said that what we practice in Plum Village is insight-based stress reduction or insight-based transformation. And what he meant was that once we’ve had an insight, everything is different. We cannot unlearn something that we’ve learned. And so all of our practice is about developing mindfulness, concentration, which leads to insight that is really understanding.”
“There’s no point practicing if we don’t generate some insights.”
“The insight is not there to be endlessly repeated, the insight is there to encourage us to practice. It’s like an anchor that helps us to stay put, and then we work at it.”
“Peace in oneself, peace in the world.”
“Happiness rests within oneself.”
“If I want transformation outside, I need to do it inside. And my general upbringing has been to shift outside things outside – not to ignore the injustices outside, but to have the presence and then the wisdom of the community to act in a skillful way.”
“In Zen circles we say that practicing with your family is the highest practice, the deepest Zen practice. That’s when you find out how you are doing. Because our parents know us as that stroppy teenager or that difficult child. We can’t float in as a spiritual practitioner; they can see straight through that.”
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1 hr 39 min
In the Footsteps of the Buddha (5/6) | The River of Life (Episode #106)
Show notes
If you wish to support our podcast, please visit this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The fifth in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Kushinagar, India, in February 2026. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister Tam Muoi and Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to reflect on the Buddha’s final days and the legacy and continuation of his teachings. They also discuss Thich Nhat Hanh’s passing and how Plum Village responded to his transition; the responsibility of current and future generations to continue his work and teachings; and the importance of the multi-fold community in preserving and spreading the Buddha’s teachings in a way that is relevant and accessible to the modern world.
Furthermore, Shantum Seth provides historical context about the Buddha’s final journey and the events after his passing, including the first Buddhist council and the spread of Buddhism; Brother Phap Huu draws parallels between the Buddha’s and Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings and legacies; and Sister Tam Muoi discusses the importance of the monastic order in continuing the Buddha’s teachings – as well as Thich Nhat Hanh’s vision for the Plum Village tradition to evolve and adapt while staying true to its core principles.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice – one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit http://www.buddhapath.com/, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.
Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Sister Tam Muoi (Sister Samadhi) is from the UK and was ordained in 2012, becoming a Dharma teacher in 2022. Having encountered the practice whilst living in France, she became engaged in the French lay sangha and was ordained into the Order of Interbeing in 2004. She is actively supporting the recently created Being Peace Practice Centre in the UK and is deeply committed to the work of healing ancestral harm, participating in trainings and retreats exploring White Awareness. Read more here.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth/Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com/Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com/Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (3/6) | The Heart of the Buddha’s Teachings (Episode #104)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-3-6-the-heart-of-the-buddhas-teachings-episode-104The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (2/6) | Enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree (Episode #103)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2-6-enlightenment-under-the-bodhi-tree-episode-103The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (1/6) | The Buddha: Down to Earth (Episode #102)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-1-6-the-buddha-down-to-earth-episode-102Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionKushinagar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KushinagarBlue Cliff Monastery
https://www.bluecliffmonastery.org/No Mud, No Lotus: The Art of Transforming Suffering
https://www.parallax.org/product/no-mud-no-lotus/The Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeingThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89Mahāyāna Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mah%C4%81y%C4%81na_Mah%C4%81parinirv%C4%81%E1%B9%87a_S%C5%ABtra
Vinaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinayaAshoka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AshokaStephen Batchelor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Batchelor_(author)Bodhicitta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BodhicittaSister Dao Nghiem
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-dao-nghiemLetters from Thich Nhat Hanh
https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/lettersDharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsDharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathVasubandhu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VasubandhuSunyata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81King Prasenajit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PasenadiKapilavastu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapilavastu_(ancient_city)Mahākāśyapa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mah%C4%81k%C4%81%C5%9ByapaQuotes
“Thay really practiced the present moment, because in the present you’re also practicing impermanence. There’s only one moment to live and to touch life, and that is the very here and now.”
“All conditioned reality is subject to decay. Strive on diligently – essentially meaning, Everything is impermanent; keep up the practice.”
“Dwelling happily in the present moment is the insight of meditation. But dwelling happily in the present moment doesn’t mean that suffering doesn’t exist; doesn’t mean that our anger and our frustration is not there. But, no matter what the situation is – whether it is loss, grief, frustration, chaos – as a practitioner, we have to have the ability to dwell in the very here and now, and allow ourselves to see that wonder, because that wonder is the light that shines through the darkness, the fog, the chaos.”
“When we’re reaching the end of our lives, we want to declutter. We want to put our affairs in order. We want to make sure, to the best of our abilities, that we leave life clean, that we don’t leave arguments, resentments, and suffering behind for the next generation to have to deal with.”
“I have never met an individual. I meet the entire lineage of that person stretching back to the beginning of time – because, if there’d been an interruption, then you wouldn’t exist.”
“The Buddha said, ‘I’ve never taught with a clenched fist, I have offered all the teachings for you to be calm, peaceful, transform your emotions, and be liberated. And so keep the Dharma as your island and be a light unto yourself, and keep the Dharma as your island.’ So he’s very clear that the Dharma is his continuation; the teachings and practice are his continuation.”
“In a country like India, the Buddha exists at a very ambient level, in the way we live our lives and feel the interconnectedness of everything, with nature, with other people.”
“If we know how to suffer, we’re going to suffer a whole lot less.”
“Thay would always include our lay friends. Whenever he was teaching in any ceremony he would always add, ‘And our lay friends, our sisters and our brothers from the lay community, the multi-fold community.’ He would always correct the language as he went along, even if it wasn’t written down, to include everybody. And this was such a teaching for us that we want to continue it. We do not want to be a monastic community where the monastics are the privileged ones. Instead, we are all practicing together and all have different capacities and different things that we can offer.”
“Thay once shared that his vision is that, one day, we’re all walking in the marketplace and see a monk walking by with peace and grace. And that monk is a bell of mindfulness. You see that monk and you stop and just breathe, connecting back to your spiritual dimension. And then you go on.”
“Thay empowered us, each of us, and now we can empower so many other people. And I think it’s a reminder that we don’t need to look for the teachers and what impact they had; instead, we can look at the impact we are having every day, in all the interactions we have, in all the people we meet, in all of the thoughts we have and all the words we speak, in all the actions. We, each of us, are a continuation. And we’re not a continuation to one other person; we’re a continuation to all of life. The way we are present in nature is the way that nature can be present for us. The way that we are available to other people then gives people the opportunity to be available to others.”
“Everything Thay did, he always reflected back to the Buddha. The Buddha’s whole way of teaching was also to empower everyone he met, to water the seeds of mindfulness and awakening in every person.”
-
1 hr 57 min
In the Footsteps of the Buddha (4/6) | Fourfold Sangha: The Living Community (Episode #105)
Show notes
If you want to support our podcast please visit this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The fourth in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Vaishali, India, in February 2026. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister Tam Muoi and Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss new steps in the pilgrimage, like their visit to Nalanda University, an ancient seat of Buddhist learning, and Vulture Peak, where the Buddha gave some of his most important teachings. In Vaishali, the Buddha made the revolutionary decision to ordain the first nuns, which was a significant step towards gender equality in Buddhism.
Shantum Seth discusses the historical context and significance of these events and places, the importance of adapting Buddhist teachings to the present day, and a vision for Plum Village India to be a multifold community that embraces diversity and continues the legacy of the Buddha and Thich Nhat Hanh in a way relevant to the current times.
Sister Tam Muoi and Brother Phap Huu share their personal experiences and reflections on the role of nuns and the evolution of the Plum Village community, emphasizing the importance of embodying Buddhist teachings, skillfully navigating change, and continuing Thich Nhat Hanh’s legacy of inclusivity and gender equality.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice—one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit http://www.buddhapath.com/, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.
Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Sister Tam Muoi (Sister Samadhi) is from the UK and was ordained in 2012, becoming a Dharma teacher in 2022. Having encountered the practice whilst living in France, she became engaged in the French lay sangha and was ordained into the Order of Interbeing in 2004. She is actively supporting the recently created Being Peace Practice Centre in the UK and is deeply committed to the work of healing ancestral harm, participating in trainings and retreats exploring White Awareness. Read more here.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth/Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com/Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill:
https://claycarnill.com/Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (3/6) | The Heart of the Buddha’s Teachings (Episode #104)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-3-6-the-heart-of-the-buddhas-teachings-episode-104The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (2/6) | Enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree (Episode #103)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2-6-enlightenment-under-the-bodhi-tree-episode-103The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (1/6) | The Buddha: Down to Earth (Episode #102)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-1-6-the-buddha-down-to-earth-episode-102Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionNalanda University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University‘Female Buddhas: A Revolution for Nuns in the Plum Village Tradition’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/female-buddhas-a-revolution-for-nuns-in-the-plum-village-traditionMahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahayanaFlower Sermon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_SermonNew Heart Sutra translation by Thich Nhat Hanh
https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translationSister Chan Duc
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-chan-ducSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89Pratimokṣa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratimok%E1%B9%A3aJoan Halifax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_HalifaxSutras: ‘The Ten Great Aspirations of Samantabhadra Bodhisattva’
https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/the-ten-great-aspirations-of-samantabhadra-bodhisattvaVaishali
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishali_(ancient_city)Notre Dame Academy, Patna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Academy,_PatnaTheravada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheravadaKapilavastu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapilavastu_(ancient_city)The Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeingSujata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sujata_(milkmaid)Kisa Gotami
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisa_GotamiPatacara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PatacaraKhema
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KhemaKing Prasenajit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PasenadiBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeBrahmajala Sutra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmaj%C4%81la_S%C5%ABtraSariputra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C4%81riputraNagarjuna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NagarjunaVasubandhu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VasubandhuPadmasambhava
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PadmasambhavaXuanzanh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XuanzangVisakha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VisakhaTheragatha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheragathaDharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsVinaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinayaDharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathQuotes
“Thay knew that the harmony of energies is so important to success, as well as to creation and to living organisms. You need all the elements. You can’t cut one off, because that’s discrimination. Thay continues to keep pushing boundaries in the context of Buddhism, of traditions. In very traditional monasteries and temples, the nuns can’t teach the monks. Even today, in 2026. In some of the institutes in Vietnam, in China, the nuns are still on one side, the monks on the other side. The nuns have to wear one color, the monks another. But Thay unifies all in brown.”
“‘If, ten years after I’ve transitioned, Plum Village looks exactly the same, Thay will be very disappointed.’ I really took that as his empowerment. We need to keep moving forward. We’re in a river. We cannot stop the river. The river needs to carry on flowing.”
“The precepts are your teachers. And when the time comes, keep renewing the precepts to make them relevant.”
“I can make change by embodying my practice.”
“The full inclusion of everyone can bring balance to a community.”
“Plum Village is not just monks and nuns; Plum Village is a multifold sangha.”
“If we don’t adapt to the current generation, even if we have all the amazing teachings, if they’re not relevant to people then the tradition will die.”
“Buddhism is very inclusive; there’s a lineage for everyone.”
“A great reminder is to embody the change – and not just to have a sign or shout about it, because that doesn’t have the impact of harmony.”
-
1 hr 51 min
In the Footsteps of the Buddha (3/6) | The Heart of the Buddha’s Teachings (Episode #104)
Show notes
If you want to support our podcast please visit this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The third in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Rajgir, India, in February 2026. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are again joined by Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss the foundational initial teachings of the Buddha: the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path, Non-Self, and the Fire Sermon.
Together, they also share personal experiences of encountering the Buddha’s teachings, practicing Thich Nhat Hanh’s wisdom in daily life, highlighting the transformative power of mindfulness, community, the realization of non-self, and more.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice—one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit http://www.buddhapath.com/, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.
Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth/Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com/Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com/Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (2/6) | Enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree (Episode #103)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2-6-enlightenment-under-the-bodhi-tree-episode-103The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (1/6) | The Buddha: Down to Earth (Episode #102)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-1-6-the-buddha-down-to-earth-episode-102Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionOld Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-cloudsSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongRajgir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RajgirBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeSujata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sujata_(milkmaid)Magadha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagadhaPoem: ‘Please Call Me By My True Names’
https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/poem-please-call-me-by-my-true-namesDharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsVinaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinayaDharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathDuhkha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%E1%B8%A5khaDignaga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dign%C4%81gaThe Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anattalakkha%E1%B9%87a_Sutta
The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89Kosala Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosala_kingdomKashyapa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KashyapaKalachakra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KalachakraJoan Halifax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_HalifaxQuotes
“Suffering is all around us. Hell is in the here and now. We have to collectively have the determination, as the Buddha did, not to deprive ourselves from food, from nutriment, but to understand the sources of our suffering – as well as the sources of the path of liberation.”
“The teaching of the Four Noble Truths is the understanding of suffering. We all have suffering. This is the shared experience of us all. We are all equal because we all suffer. In spite of status, class – whatever labels humanity may have for one another – suffering is a truth that none of us can ignore or can escape.”
“We only have so much time on this planet. But there’s so much we can direct our attention towards. What are the seeds we are watering every day? The diligence of watering our consciousness and the seeds that become the action.”
“We have to see the Buddha a little bit like a doctor. We have to see suffering as a disease, a universal disease. You might think it’s very obvious that we all suffer, that we all get angry, that we are all separated from the ones we love, that we have sickness and old age. But it wasn’t a universal idea. Some people said, ‘This life is bliss.’ So when we start with the primacy of suffering, that in itself is a revolutionary moment.”
“As somebody who really is imbued with the Buddha’s teachings, I feel that all human beings experience suffering. And that in itself is revolutionary, saying, ‘This is where it starts.’ Because a lot of it is about escaping from the present, escaping from this world. Most teachings are around something which will come hereafter – but the Buddha is saying, ‘Come back to now; feel, understand your mind, see that your mind is creating your reality.’”
“Thich Nhat Hanh always emphasized that people talk about Buddhism being about suffering. But he said, ‘No, it’s the third noble truth. It is about the releasing of suffering and the transforming of suffering into joy and happiness. That’s very important; don’t get stuck in the suffering. That’s why the first noble truth is a noble truth, because you use the suffering as a compost for happiness.”
“Siddhartha touched the reality that life and death are just a game of hide and seek. They are just labels.”
“Acceptance, and being with all the conditions in the present moment, is a superpower. You cannot escape the present moments – except by being in your suffering and your wishful thinking. But once you arrive in the here and now, and you embrace these realities, you are free.”
“This is because that is. This is not because that is not.”
“‘Thay, what happens when I die?’ Thay said, ‘I haven’t died yet, I don’t know. But what I can tell you is what happens when we are very much alive.’ Let’s come back to that present moment, to that insight.”
“Thay spoke so eloquently of the second teaching, the Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta; the sutra on non-self. Under the tree, the Buddha looked at the Bodhi leaf and said, ‘Ah, in that leaf is the sunshine, the earth, the rain, the seed, everything. And if you take one of those elements out of that leaf, the leaf won’t exist as we know it now.’ And that was his deep realization.”
“One Buddha is not enough.”
“The Buddha is the sangha.”
“I’d been a political activist looking for a way of being peace, not fighting for peace. I had a lot of anger in me and I really felt I touched peace for the first time in that walking meditation – as a visceral experience, not as an idea, not as the concept of wanting peace, but as something that I could embody.”
-
1 hr 43 min
In the Footsteps of the Buddha (2/6) | Enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree (Episode #103)
Show notes
If you want to support our podcast please visit this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The second in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Bodh Gaya, India, in February 2026. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined again by Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss the journey of the Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, before he reached enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree in Bodh Gaya. It covers Siddhartha’s early life, the various ascetic practices he tried, his finding of the middle way between extreme asceticism and hedonism and going through various stages of meditation and insight, to becoming the awakened one, and his first teaching.
Together, the three participants further reflect on the relevance of the Buddha’s journey to their own spiritual practices; the challenges of maintaining mindfulness and presence in the modern world; the importance of the sangha in the Buddhist tradition; and how the Buddha’s teachings emphasize the interconnectedness of all things.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice—one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit http://www.buddhapath.com/, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.
Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recording by Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth/
Sound editing by Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com/
Publishing by Anca Rusu
Produced by Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com/
Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionOld Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-cloudsKaundinya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaundinyaSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeBodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_GayaSujata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sujata_(milkmaid)Mahavira
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahaviraKumbh Mela
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_MelaMaulana Azad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulana_AzadDalit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DalitDharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsDharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathQuotes
“We think we’re practicing for ourselves only, but there are invisible connections that we may not see. So your own practice, your own transformation, your decision-making can shift a whole lineage that precedes you. Without even doing much. It’s just some decisions; it’s almost like the turning of the dharma wheel, something in our whole lineage. And it’s true for a lot of my Western monastics; they might be the first in their whole ancestral lineage to be on the path of love and understanding. So you’re not doing this for yourself only, you’re doing this for your whole lineage.”
“Everyone on this pilgrimage, in this room right now, sitting, I invite you to plant that seed to see that this journey is not yours alone. There’s a deep interbeing and it’s a weaving of past, present, and future.”
“I got involved in activist politics, organizing big demonstrations, going to jail, organizing in a big way. But then I burnt out and found that I was very angry. And that anger was actually infusing my action, and I realized I was also part of the problem. So I had to find a way of being peace, not just fighting for peace.”
“In the Indic civilizational system, at least in some traditions, and especially in the Brahmanical system – I don’t call it Hinduism – we have four stages of life. The first is what we call brahmacharya: the celibate life, when you’re a student. The second stage is the grahasthi, where you become a family person and have children and build up the family. And the third is vanaprastha: sort of a forest dwelling, but more like social work; your children are getting married and you get involved more in society, like a philanthropist. And the fourth stage is sannyas, where you actually leave the family, break your ties, and become, in effect, dead to the family and take the path of a monastic. So the Buddha is saying, ‘You don’t need to wait till you’re an older person. Start now. Don’t waste your life. The path of awakening can be walked when you’re young, too.’”
“Having children is courageous; you’re taking on responsibility for future generations, and that’s not easy. I feel that’s why we need a sangha of parents, friends. They say it takes a village, but it takes the global humanity, eight billion people, to create a civilizational shift. And that’s what we’re trying to do, to make the world a better place.”
“Courage is a moment-to-moment act. It’s not just a moment; it’s each day we get up and say, ‘Okay, it’s a blessing we have this life for these 24 hours. Can I, in some way, make it better? Can I not make it worse? Can I enhance the life of people around me and keep being mindful?’ The word ‘Buddha’ just means to be awake. So how can we really be awake? We can be awake by being mindful: being attentive, breathing in, breathing out. That’s a moment of awakening, to be present. The Buddha became a full-time Buddha, but we can do it moment-to-moment, as little, part-time Buddhas. I think all of us can touch it – and that requires courage, too, to be diligent in our practice; it’s very easy to get distracted so we need to watch our mental state of irritation, anger, jealousy, whatever comes up. I have eyes to see – wow, that’s a miracle. That’s, again, a type of awakening. So I think this path is the path of courage.”
“You can share the same bed with someone, but if you don’t share an aspiration, it can cause immense suffering.”
“The problem with the middle path is that it’s not a single line. It is an appropriate response to a particular situation. The middle part requires attentiveness, mindfulness, moment-to-moment. You might think drinking water is an appropriate action, but if you’ve had a stomach operation, drinking water might kill you. So something simple like that has to be appropriately done; the middle way is appropriate to time and place.”
“We can’t start off on the middle path. We have to understand our suffering deeply in order to know the middle path, to know the two extremes in order to find that path.”
“That’s why retreats are so important: we step away from the world to realize what our deepest aspiration is. And then we can go back with a new set of eyes.”
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1 hr 45 min
In the Footsteps of the Buddha (1/6) | The Buddha: Down to Earth (Episode #102)
Show notes
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The first of a series of six episodes recorded during the pilgrimage ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha’, this instalment was made in Varanasi, India, in February 2026.
In this opening episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss the importance of understanding the Buddha as a fully human being; a boat journey on the sacred Ganges river at sunrise, from which it was possible to witness cremation and devotion; teachings on death and impermanence as daily practice; the importance of living in the present moment; and much more.
The speakers also share personal experiences and reflections on their spiritual journeys, the role played by the community, and the continuation of the Buddha’s teachings through their own lives and practice.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice—one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit http://www.buddhapath.com/, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.
Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recording by Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth/
Sound editing by Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com/
Publishing by Anca Rusu
Produced by Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com/
Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
The Way Out Is In: ‘Ancient Path for Modern Times: Active Nonviolence (Episode #70)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/ancient-path-for-modern-times-active-nonviolence-episode-70Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition‘The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainingsSarnath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SarnathDharadun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehradun_districtBodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_GayaRajgir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RajgirOld Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-cloudsFederico Fellini
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federico_FelliniGhat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GhatAlara Kalama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80%E1%B8%B7%C4%81ra_K%C4%81l%C4%81ma
Jack Kornfield
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_KornfieldUpanishads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpanishadsSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeMoksha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MokshaRishi Joan Halifax
https://www.joanhalifax.org/Daily Contemplations on Impermanence & Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/daily-contemplations-on-impermanence-interbeing#the-five-remembrancesSutras: ‘Discourse on Knowing the Better Way to Live Alone’
https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/discourse-on-knowing-the-better-way-to-live-aloneSutras
https://plumvillage.org/genre/sutrasLeila Seth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_SethOn Balance
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1754796.On_Balance_an_AutobiographyQuotes
“Every step is a miracle. Every breath is an offering.”
“The transformation is both individual and collective – and not just right now; it is something which seeps into our understanding and informs our life. The real journey begins when you get home. When you see your familiar surroundings with these pilgrimage lenses, those are very, very important moments. When you see your familiar surroundings slightly differently, and you see what brings you suffering, what brings you joy, what brings a sense of ease, then you can tweak your life.”
“Siddhartha always says, ‘I’m on this path not for power, not for leadership, but to find liberation within us.’ And that means we have to be ready to let go of all of the ideology that we have received from our ancestors, not from just us, but from the lineage of our whole ancestors and society.”
“We can be free amidst the suffering. We can still find our calm, our peace with every storm that arises, that manifests. We find a way to understand it, to embrace it even, because we see that that storm is a part of us.”
“In the Mahaparinirvāṇa Sutta, the Buddha said, ‘Go to the places where I was born, died, where the first teachings were given, where I awakened.’ But I think he’s saying, ‘Leave your familiar surroundings and explore, and you’ll find different seeds in your consciousness being touched, which are not touched when you go every day to work or in your familiar surroundings.’ And that is the learning of yourself. It’s an interior journey on this exterior part.”
“In India, your path to God is through your guru – but in the Buddha Dharma, the guru shows you the path, and you walk it. In the classic example of the Buddha pointing to the moon, he says, ‘Don’t get caught looking at my finger; look at the moon.’”
“Somebody once asked Thay, ‘What happens when we die?’ He said, ‘I don’t know, but I can tell you what happens when we’re alive.’”
“The only ingredient that you have any control about for the future is the present. We can only act in the present. As you know, the past is gone, the future is an idea – but all these situations that arise in our lives, how do we respond appropriately? With ethics, with a sense of calm, with a sense of love, how can we respond appropriately to each situation? Because that is the ingredient for the future.”
“The Buddha is saying, ‘Stay open, stay alive. This is the most precious moment. This is a gift. And when we die, we’ll have no control over it.’”
“In Indian philosophy, we don’t have only yes or no. We say, yes, no, neither yes or no, both yes and no. So it’s the idea that I am the same person, I’m a different person, I’m neither the same or a different person, and both the same person and the different person. That’s the Buddha Dharma’s understanding of continuity, birth and death, and in that we don’t get caught.”
“Awakening is a collective awakening.”
“The Buddha was teaching us how to be a human being, how to take both the joy and the happiness of being a human being, but also to understand the suffering of a human being, and then take suffering as a noble truth. But it’s a noble truth only because we can transform it – otherwise it’s just plain old suffering. Use suffering as the compost for liberation. Looking at the cause, knowing the path to overcome suffering. And that’s key in Buddha. Otherwise, death is suffering, loss is suffering. The Buddha is saying, ‘Take that and look at it deeply, transform it, and live your life today as if it’s your last moment, your first moment, your present moment, our present moment.’”
“Secular in India means different from secular in the West. Secular in India means respecting all religions. It doesn’t mean non-religious. I was brought up in a household like that, where we had Hindu icons, Christian icons, Islamic icons, everything. And we would go to midnight mass or go to a mosque or go to a temple, but we were not religious. It was just respecting people like that. And we had friends from every religion.”
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1 hr 31 min
Calm in the Storm Q&R, Part Two (Episode #101)
Show notes
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This special episode – the last of two question-and-response (Q&R) installments – marks the publication of the second book by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino. Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World is intended to help readers meet the current polycrisis with love and stability, but also forcefulness and resilience.
According to Plum Village tradition, Jo and Brother Phap Huu recorded two episodes responding to questions by listeners which connect to the book’s themes. In this second part they answer questions on dealing with anxious thoughts, raising children in uncertain times, reacting to the anger of those around us, managing fears and hypochondria, and much more.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/The Way Out Is In: ‘Calm in the Storm Q&R, Part One (Episode #97)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/calm-in-the-storm-qr-part-one-episode-97Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition‘The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainingsUrsula K. Le Guin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_K._Le_GuinThe Sun My Heart
https://www.parallax.org/product/the-sun-my-heart/Quotes
“If Buddhism is not engaged, it’s not Buddhism.”
“We have to study the meaning of calm, because when we say ‘calm’ or ‘sitting meditation’, that may look like non-action. But what we have seen in some of the most impactful work is that, when people take the time to be still, to listen, and to embrace and hold feelings and emotions and these projects in a calm manner, they are able to direct, lead, and not be carried away with the force field of anxiety, of fear, of restlessness.”
“Mindfulness is only true mindfulness if it’s generating love and compassion.”
“We can say so many things about Buddhist history and Buddhist philosophy, but what the Buddha transmitted to us and really wanted was for us to ask the question, ‘How can I put these practices into daily life?’”
“When everything is changing, the most important thing is to also know what needs to remain the same.”
“Our mindfulness should not be a blockage to other people’s engagement with us – but, at the same time, we do have to have boundaries. We do have to have clarity.”
“Mindfulness is to lead an ethical life. If you’re practicing mindfulness and you’re continuing to cause harm to the earth, to living beings, to yourself and your loved ones, maybe that is wrong mindfulness. As Thay said, ‘Is the burglar mindful?’”
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2 hr 8 min
One Hundred Years of Thich Nhat Hanh (Episode #100)
Show notes
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication to celebrate the legacy of Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay)’s teachings, and how they have impacted both them and the broader community.
This milestone instalment of the podcast – the 100th episode! – coincides with the centenary of Thich Nhat Hanh’s birth. As well as discussing the purpose of the podcast series, the contributors reflect upon Thay’s compassion, and commitment to relieving suffering – and the monastic tradition’s importance to the preservation and transmission of these teachings.
The discussion also takes in topics such as the evolution of Plum Village; the development of an online monastery, to make Plum Village’s teachings more accessible; and the need for ethical values and mindful living in the face of global crises, and Plum Village’s aim to be a community of resistance, embodying a way of life that is in harmony with the Earth and with each other. All this and: how has the podcast transformed the lives of its hosts?
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Course: Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet
https://plumvillage.org/courses/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planetInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionLinji
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linji_schoolSister True Dedication
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiemBodhicitta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhicitta‘The Five Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainings‘The 14 Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainingsDharma Talk: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths
Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet
https://www.parallax.org/product/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planet/How To: ‘Begin Anew’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/begin-anewLiving Gems
https://plumvillage.org/gems/Stephen Batchelor
https://stephenbatchelor.org/Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/Quotes
“What you [the hosts] give voice and humanity and friendship to is what a spiritual life being lived feels like, sounds like, looks like. You’re both wonderfully descriptive in how you talk about both your own spiritual lives, and seeking, and your own experiences – and those of the people around us, here, in the community.”
“Thay’s bodhicitta really sets him apart from many other leading spiritual figures, perhaps in that he was relentless in his creativity and his determination to relieve suffering and to find universal paths out of it. And something else that set him apart was that he didn’t offer the Buddha Dharma for Buddha Dharma’s sake: he wasn’t interested in the success of Buddhism per se; he wanted humanity to be a better species and he wanted human actions to not bring so much suffering to humans and to the planet.”
“Thay transcended even Zen and Buddhism. He was an extraordinary human who wanted to share and develop practices and ways of being in the world, through mindfulness, through the Five Mindfulness Trainings and the 14 Mindfulness Trainings: concrete ways that we can cultivate ourselves to be better humans – an unusual legacy for a Zen master.”
“Thay wanted every moment of his presence to manifest right action in the world. He wasn’t interested in small talk.”
“A monastic only retires when he transforms and lets go.”
“This is it. Stop searching, stop running.”
“A lotus will be a lotus. And a rose will be a rose. And a magnolia will be a magnolia. But if we try to be everything, then we’re going to be nothing. And then we don’t know how to nurture the lotus, because the lotus is very particular; it needs mud. A rose is very particular, too; it needs a different setting.”
“This is not an era of change, it’s a change of era.”
“The primary direction that Thay gave us was to be a community of simplicity, of peace, of awareness, and of embracing suffering. Be that community. Which, by the way, is a really tall order.”
“One of our first missions as monastics is to embody a way of living that is happy, harmonious, and different. And then to hold that light for future generations, outside of the rat race. A lot of monastic communities throughout history have emerged from this kind of intention: to not follow the path of getting a job, getting a mortgage, becoming householders, getting a pension, and being part of the machine. We step outside of that in order to cultivate different qualities.”
“The algorithms, the screens, the politics, the lobbies, the economics are all taking us towards the worst of human nature. So we have to be able to say, ‘Well, we’re going to stand for the better parts of human nature.’ And that’s going to be important: for us to lift up in the world, and to know that we have had ancestors, over the millennia, who were interested in cultivating non-violence, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, generosity, well-being, health. And we have to take our society in that direction and not give up on it. Because otherwise it becomes a dog-eat-dog world where we’re all scrambling over each other in a race to the bottom of the brainstem. So, one of our roles in Plum Village is to help people not give up on the ethical values that are needed now more than ever.”
“When people leave Plum Village, they don’t leave with nothing. They leave with the world. They leave for the path. And we’re there to support that through the sanghas, through all our online offerings. And here is a community that’s navigating this, evolving this, updating it, exploring it. The world passes through Plum Village, and, from that, we grow so much.”
“We’re a light in the world. So wherever there’s darkness, light is there. We just have to search for it, or stop, pause, and know that that light is there.”
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1 hr 34 min
Walking the Path (Episode #99)
Show notes
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss what it means to walk a spiritual path.
The conversation provides a deep and personal insight into the life of a long-term Buddhist practitioner, as Brother Phap Huu reflects on his 25 years as a monk, including the joys and challenges of living in a spiritual community; the role of a teacher on the path; the importance of finding one’s own inner teacher; the practice of celibacy; the transformations that can happen through spiritual practice; the lessons learned from 17 years as Thich Nhat Hanh’s attendant; and much more.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Course: Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet
https://plumvillage.org/courses/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planetInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionFragrant Palm Leaves
https://plumvillage.org/books/1998-neo-ve-cua-y-fragrant-palm-leavesDharma Talk: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths
Taming the Tiger Within
https://www.parallax.org/product/taming-the-tiger-within/Sister True Dedication
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiemSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBrother Phap Ung
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-chan-phap-ungQuotes
“A good teacher is to show that each and every one of us has a teacher inside of us.”
“It’s enough of a journey to transform ourselves before we choose to transform other people.”
“You’re already the person you want to be.”
“A lot of us are defined by our past, and we let that become our whole narrative. But I think that Thay stepped into transforming his past and seeing himself in the present moment and not being caught in a prison of ‘what was’.”
“Thay was very optimistic – not an ignorant optimism, but optimistic with the insight that there is awakening everywhere. We just have to tap into the right conditions, into the right path, so that those seeds can blossom into trees and into a garden.”
“Every human being that comes into the spiritual path is different. We all have different stories, experiences, histories, upbringing. So we can’t bundle everyone into the same boat. But each and every one of us have to see and accept each other’s differences, suffering, and limits, and be patient with each other.”
“When we talk about becoming a monk, we talk about stepping into freedom. And that freedom is the choice that we have made to not chase after, in our language, worldly successes. Those successes come with different layers of desires and hooks that would trap us. And the aspiration is ideal, but on the path itself, we all have to encounter our own demons within us.”
“Be beautiful, be yourself.”
“There’s a saying, particularly for monastics, that, when you wear the robe of a monk, your home is everywhere. Because our home is the present moment. The present moment is our daily destination, so that is where we will never feel lost. But that is insight and that is practice.”
“If we are a teacher who thinks we have all the answers, I don’t think we will really connect with everyone. We won’t connect with the ever-changing present moment, the ever-changing generations.”
“When we see that our whole career will become a spiritual career, the deepest aspiration is to be free from all desires. And sex is a desire. Physical contact is a desire. Emotional connections could become a deep attachment, which is a desire. And, in our practice, why do we want to be free from that? Because only when we are free from it can we be of service to the world. Our deepest aspiration is to be of service to the world, whatever world we encounter in our lifetime. But if I have a family, if I have a partner, that becomes my world and that becomes my holy life, my holy family, my community – and, of course, my son or my daughter or my children will become the focus of my devotion. But monastics want to meet the world, at any moment, without being tied down and bound to these relationships.”
“Sometimes, the mind is not the answer, and the heart is stronger. And we have to lean into the heart and be stubborn with the mind.”
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1 hr 36 min
Inner Space (Episode #98)
Show notes
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss the importance of creating inner space and stillness through meditation practices. But what does it actually mean to create more space in our lives? And why is this important, and how do we go about it?
The conversation emphasises that the practice of meditation is not just about achieving enlightenment, but about becoming more present, compassionate, and engaged with the world. It touches upon the difficulties of finding space in modern life, the benefits of different meditation techniques, and misconceptions around enlightenment.
The hosts also share personal experiences, including insights about how meditation has deepened their practice and allowed them to navigate challenges with greater flexibility and understanding.
The episode ends with a meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Pilgrimage: In the Footsteps of the Buddha
https://plumvillage.org/event/pilgrimage/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/Course: Zen and The Art of Saving the Planet
https://plumvillage.org/courses/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planetInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition‘Resources for Practicing the 16 Exercises of Mindful Breathing’
https://plumvillage.app/resources-for-practicing-the-16-exercises-of-mindful-breathing/‘Making the App More Inclusive: Introducing the ‘Access to Practice’ Folder’
https://plumvillage.app/introducing-the-access-to-practice-folder/Robert Thurman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_ThurmanMahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahayanaBodhisattvas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BodhisattvaThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18Sister Chan Lang Nghiem
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiemQuotes
“Walking meditation was our teacher’s favorite practice and it was really a life-changing cultivation for him. Because, particularly when we are very emotional – whether that be grief, agony, pain, anger, frustration – it is probably better to be in a state of motion.”
“The Buddha has said, What are we mindful of? We are mindful of our suffering. Why do we practice? To liberate ourselves and all beings from suffering. That is the greatest vow of a monk or a nun: to find liberation in oneself and liberation in all.”
“There are so many creations of senses – what we see, what we hear, what we smell, what we taste – to help us cope with our suffering. And when we are suffering, whether that suffering is very petite, a daily concern, or is a generational trauma, we don’t have language for how to be with that suffering. Therefore, we look for a way out – and the world loves giving us a prescription of, ‘If you do this, you will feel that.’”
“Sometimes silence is a chance for us to be in touch with deep suffering or deep experiences that our noise has covered up. As a meditator, space gives us the barrier and boundaries to listen and to hold. If we don’t create that space, we will be on autopilot for the rest of our life. Our mind is on autopilot; it has a way of thinking, a way of doing, a way of perceiving, of creating perceptions, creating judgment. So when we meditate and have the opportunity to listen to and then to guide the mind, it gives the mind a chance to not also be carried away by its own habits – which is thinking.”
“Thinking is not a bad thing. Like our teacher has always transmitted to us, thinking is a part of creating a view in life, a project, a mission, an intention. But most of our thinking is not productive. It is actually more daydreaming, it is more procrastination. It is more like a zombie, in a way, or a sleepwalker. It has no destination; it’s just on autopilot.”
“Many people feel they have to sit on a cushion, they have to have a shrine, they have to light incense, they have to light a candle – which of course can be very beautiful and give a good atmosphere for meditation. But you can also do it on a busy bus or train, or as you’re sitting on a park bench. It’s not about taking things out of your life; it’s about allowing life to be.”
“Sometimes we sit just to enjoy sitting and doing nothing, because maybe that’s the one gift that we want to give to ourselves – because we’re always doing, we’re always in fifth gear. Sometimes we need a radical act: to sit and do nothing, to give and create and redefine space for ourselves.”
“How can we keep mindfulness alive if we are not cultivating it? Sitting meditation is one of the concrete cultivation practices.”
“There is right mindfulness and wrong mindfulness. We could be a wonderful burglar with full concentration – but we would be creating suffering. So right mindfulness relieves suffering; it is about understanding suffering and heading towards the path of understanding and love.”
“One time our teacher told us that sometimes insight doesn’t come during sitting meditation, but when it’s ripe. Maybe when we’re most relaxed: when we’re not thinking about it, but are living the moment very deeply. And Thay told us that, a lot of the time, it would come while he was gardening or doing walking meditation. But sitting meditation is the cultivation; it is like a gardener tending the seeds of insights to help us have a moment of, ‘Ah, I get it.’”
“The practice is maybe just continuing to unlearn things, in order to learn again.”
“There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.”
“Sitting is already action. When we sit in this way and have new insight, that will become the thread of so many actions coming forward. So don’t underestimate the power of sitting still; yes, we have apps and guided meditations, but also build the capacity of generating your own guide. And that breath is there, that body is there. Then the community is there – and that’s the beauty of a tradition.”
“Whenever we speak about enlightenment, enlightenment of what? What do we want to be enlightened from or towards? Then, later on – like in my own growth – I see that enlightenment is a verb; it is a continuous enlighten-ing. You cannot be enlightened today, December the 9th, and expect that enlightenment to stay the same in 2028. Because things are changing; we are changing. The world is changing.”
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