This Old Marketing - News Podcast Weekly with Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose

The business of content is changing, and the numbers are getting ridiculous.

In this episode of This Old Marketing, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose break down Anthropic's eye-popping IPO filing and what it tells us about the future of AI. Next, Instagram is testing videos up to 90 minutes long. Is every social platform trying to become YouTube? Finally, the U.S. Small Business Administration officially recognizes content creators within its small-business classification system. What does this mean for the future of creator entrepreneurship?

In winners and losers, Joe celebrates Pauly Shore's viral horror short Remain Calm, and what it teaches us about reinvention, creative risks, and finding an audience. Meanwhile, Robert applauds Apple Music for showcasing the human creativity behind its new brand identity.

In rants and raves, Robert tackles the growing confusion between citations and brand mentions in AI search. Meanwhile, Joe raves about Noah Smith's fascinating look at how AI could usher in a golden age of scientific discovery.

Plus: Joe introduces The Tilt's free 21-day challenge, featuring 21 ideas to help you think differently, take action, and make meaningful changes in your life and work. Get started at thetilt.com/21.

Links from the show

Main stories

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Anthropic's S-1 Is Wild: The New York Times

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Instagram Tests Feature Film-Length Videos: The Hollywood Reporter

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SBA Officially Recognizes Content Creators: U.S. Small Business Administration

Winners, rants and raves

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Joe's Winner: Pauly Shore's Viral Horror Short Remain Calm, iHorror

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Robert's Winner: How Apple Music Created Its New Brand Mark, Marketing Brew

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Joe's Rave: A Golden Age of Science Is Coming, Noah Smith

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Robert's Rant: Citations vs. Mentions in AI Search

The Tilt 21-Day Challenge

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21 Ideas in 21 Days

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.thetilt.com/join-tilt-newsletter

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Is Elon Musk a marketing genius, or has Tesla officially crossed the line from hype into overpromising? Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose kick off the episode with Tesla's latest flying-car demonstration and talk about the real reason for Elon's stunt and what he could have done differently.

Next, the duo digs into two fascinating research reports from Anthropic. Why do the people building AI have such radically different expectations for the future than the general public? And what is AI already doing to jobs inside Anthropic itself? Joe and Robert explore what these findings mean for marketers, employees, and the future of business. It's a heated debate.

In winners and losers, Robert names Braze his winner and Salesforce his loser following Salesforce's multibillion-dollar acquisition announcement. Joe examines the controversial political advertisement from Vivek Ramaswamy's Ohio gubernatorial campaign, asking an important question: Just because you can do something in advertising, does that mean you should?

Finally, in rants and raves, Robert takes aim at Forrester's latest agency predictions, including its forecast that 20% of independent agencies will face acquisition, downsizing, or closure in 2027. Joe celebrates his friend Matt Wilkinson's new academic research exploring the Trust Portfolio concept and the growing importance of human relationships in marketing.

Another can't-miss episode of This Old Marketing!

News Stories

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Elon Musk's Flying Car (CNN): https://www.cnn.com/2026/10/15/business/tesla-unveils-what-it-says-is-a-flying-car

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Anthropic: Expectations for the Future: https://www.anthropic.com/research/expectations-for-the-future

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Anthropic: Employment at Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/research/employment-at-anthropic

Winners and Losers

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Salesforce Announces Braze Acquisition: https://investor.salesforce.com/news/news-details/2026/Salesforce-Signs-Definitive-Agreement-to-Acquire-Braze/default.aspx

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Ramaswamy Campaign's Controversial Ohio Ad (New York Times): https://www.nytimes.com/2026/10/21/us/politics/ramaswamy-acton-ad-ohio.html

Rants and Raves

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Robert's Rant: Forrester Predicts Independent Agency Sector Will Shrink 20% (MediaPost): https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/418896/forrester-predicts-that-indie-agency-sector-will-s.html

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Joe's Rave: Matt Wilkinson's Trust Portfolio Academic Research: https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3387/16/10/520

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.thetilt.com/join-tilt-newsletter

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Three stories about platforms, advertising, and control. Are tech companies doing anything surprising, or are marketers simply expecting these platforms to act against their own interests?

1. ChatGPT Expands Advertising

Angle: Are we making too big a deal about AI advertising?

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Google already mixes AI recommendations with advertising. Consumers seem comfortable with it. Why should ChatGPT be different?

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Do people see ChatGPT as a trusted adviser or simply another search engine?

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The YouTube strategy: Could advertising intentionally make the free experience less attractive so more people upgrade?

Question: Is ChatGPT advertising a threat to trust, or just the next version of Google Search?

2. Google Changes Its Content Guidance

Angle: Visibility is the new traffic.

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Marketers are realizing that appearing in Google doesn't necessarily mean getting a click.

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Content discovery is becoming a brand play, not just a traffic play.

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The challenge is measurement. How do we demonstrate value when people see our brand but never visit our website?

Question: If nobody clicks, how do we know our content marketing is working? And does it matter?

3. Meta Bans TikTok Advertising

Angle: Why should Meta promote its competition?

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Meta is a private company. Why should it help TikTok grow?

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Isn't it perfectly reasonable to protect your own platform?

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The wrinkle: What about third-party brands trying to promote their own TikTok content?

Question: Is this starting the banning war of 2027?

Marketing Winners and Losers

Robert's Winner/Loser: Publicis

The Day the CEO Stopped Being Scared. Publicis is bypassing traditional agency pitches and selling AI transformation directly to anxious CEOs. Robert says this is a long-term loss and no way to sell trust.

Joe's Loser: Norwegian Cruise Line

Norwegian has talented onboard performers but isn't doing enough to build them into creators and influencers. A missed opportunity to grow audiences, build loyalty, and attract talent.

Rants and Raves

Robert's Rant: AI Cute-Washing

Cute is the worst way to sell long-term trust.

Joe's Rave: Sylvester Stallone's Memoir

Stallone's life, career, persistence, and creative journey.

Article Links

ChatGPT Expands Advertising | Mashable

Google Changes Its Content Guidance | MarTech

Meta Bans TikTok Ads in Seven Countries | TechRepublic

Publicis Is Selling Directly to AI-Anxious CEOs | Digiday

Big Tech Is Cutewashing Its AI Agents | Fast Company

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.thetilt.com/join-tilt-newsletter

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this special Ask Me Anything episode of This Old Marketing, Robert and Joe put each other in the hot seat with questions about marketing, business, and how they ended up here.

They cover what's changed in marketing over the years, the biggest business decisions of their lives, why Robert does consulting at all, and how Joe started Content Marketing Institute. Along the way, they get a little personal and share some stories you might not have heard before.

Stick around until the end. A few of the best questions, and most unexpected answers, have nothing to do with marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.thetilt.com/join-tilt-newsletter

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

AI is getting more powerful, publishers want their communities back, and marketers are apparently becoming engineers.

In this episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert start with OpenAI and the growing concerns around increasingly capable AI systems. Is it marketing...or theater...or real concerns? The boys lean toward marketing.

Then, OpenWeb launches Reddit-style forums that publishers can build directly into their own sites. For years, publishers watched conversations move from their comment sections to platforms like Reddit and Facebook. With search traffic under pressure, could community once again become one of the most important assets publishers own?

Marketing Winners and Rants & Raves

Joe's Marketing Winner: Meta and Muse

Joe gives Meta the win for understanding that AI adoption isn't only a technology problem. It's an emotional one. By associating its AI with a cute, friendly character, Meta is making the technology feel less intimidating and more approachable.

Is it brilliant positioning, or the AI equivalent of putting a cartoon character on a cereal box?

Robert's Marketing Winner: Visit Sweden

Robert gives the win to Visit Sweden and its "Introvert Travel Agency," a campaign built specifically around travelers who would rather avoid crowds, forced social interaction and the traditional tourist experience.

Joe's Commentary: Anthropic, Religion and the Marketing of AI Acceptance

Joe looks at The New York Times report on Anthropic's private meetings with theologians, philosophers and religious thinkers about Claude, morality and the possibility of AI consciousness.

Robert's Rant: The Marketing Engineer

The Wall Street Journal looks at the rise of the "marketing engineer," a title for marketers combining AI, automation and traditional marketing judgment.

Links

OpenAI / Astra safety https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/28/technology/openai-astra-safety.html

OpenWeb launches forums for publishers https://www.axios.com/2026/09/30/openweb-forums-publishers-reddit

Joe's Marketing Winner: Meta Muse https://www.theverge.com/column/999999/optimizer-meta-muse-ai-cute

Joe's Commentary: Anthropic, Claude and Religion https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/29/us/anthropic-claude-morals-ai.html

Robert's Marketing Winner: Visit Sweden's Introvert Travel Agency https://adage.com/creativity/work/aa-visit-sweden-introvert-travel-agency/

Robert's Rant: Marketers Are Rebranding as Engineers to Survive the AI Era https://www.wsj.com/cmo-today/marketers-are-rebranding-as-engineers-to-survive-the-ai-era-2938574b

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.thetilt.com/join-tilt-newsletter

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Content marketing is changing, and Joe and Robert believe the traditional model may finally be reaching the end of the road.

In this special episode of This Old Marketing, the guys look ahead to the state of content marketing in 2027 and present two different, but complementary, models for what comes next.

Joe goes deep on the Trust Portfolio, a strategy for organizations to build a diversified collection of trusted human voices instead of relying almost entirely on the corporate brand. He walks through how companies can identify the audiences where trust matters most, find the right people to serve them and build human-led content franchises designed to create ongoing audience relationships.

Robert introduces The Plural Brand, his framework for a world where AI makes every company capable of producing polished, professional and increasingly similar content. Instead of trying to manufacture one perfectly consistent brand voice, Robert argues that organizations need distinctiveness, multiple credible human voices and the ability to earn trust one audience at a time.

Two frameworks. Two perspectives. One big question: What does content marketing become when creating more content is no longer the answer?

Resources from the episode

Joe Pulizzi: How to Build a Trust Portfolio Includes the full article, the free Trust Portfolio Field Guide and the companion Trust Portfolio Worksheet. https://www.thetilt.com/marketing/how-to-build-a-trust-portfolio

Robert Rose: The Plural Brand Includes Robert's free Plural Brand eBook. https://www.seventhbear.com/the-plural-brand/

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.thetilt.com/join-tilt-newsletter

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert kick off the show with a question that's getting harder to ignore: when the CEOs building the world's most powerful AI systems start saying development may need to slow down, how concerned should everyone else be? New warnings from Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei and OpenAI CEO Sam Altman bring the AI safety debate back to the forefront.

Then the guys dig into some troubling new content marketing research from Andy Crestodina and Orbit Media. Of 1,042 marketers surveyed, just 14% say their blogs deliver strong results. AI may be making content faster and easier to produce, but the strategies most closely associated with strong performance, including original research, expert collaboration and human editing, are actually being used less often.

Meanwhile, Perplexity is going big on creators, working with hundreds of influencers and running campaigns involving more than 100 creators and multi-million-dollar budgets. Is this further proof that as AI makes content creation cheaper, trusted human voices become even more valuable?

Joe's marketing winner is Meta and its work showing how Ray-Ban Meta AI glasses can help blind and low-vision users gain more independence. Robert's marketing loser is Nike, which is being removed from the S&P 100 after 18 years as the company struggles with a dramatic decline in market value.

Robert raves about HBO's new DC series Lanterns, while Joe recommends Harlan Coben's new book, Plot Twist: Life, Craft, and the Messy First Draft, part memoir and part practical look at the realities of the writing process.

Episode Links:

AI CEOs revive debate over risks to humanity Andy Crestodina's content marketing research Perplexity is betting big on creators Meta AI glasses for blind veterans Nike's S&P 100 removal and Dow concerns Lanterns on HBO Harlan Coben's Plot Twist

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert kick off the show with a look at the coming explosion of video creators and what happens when AI makes video creation essentially unlimited.

Then they dig into OpenAI's new Astra model, the debate over whether we've reached AGI, and the uncomfortable timing of Anthropic insiders warning that increasingly powerful AI could pose an existential risk.

Finally, it's prediction time. Joe and Robert make their 2026 NFL picks and pit their football knowledge against OpenAI and Claude. Who wins the Super Bowl? Who completely embarrasses themselves? We'll find out.

Articles from the show:

Billion New Video Creators Coming Soon

OpenAI GPT-6 Astra Review: Shockingly Good

Anthropic Insiders Warn AI Could Kill All Humans

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert look at Big Tech power, unexpected brand comebacks and the growing tension between AI efficiency and human trust.

Meta agreed to an enormous teen-safety settlement, including new limits around young users. But the most interesting part may be that billions of dollars are tied to competitors adopting similar protections. Is Meta turning a regulatory loss into a competitive advantage?

Google was found to have illegally monopolized key parts of the digital ad market, yet a federal judge declined to force the company to sell its ad exchange business. If the monopoly remains intact, what exactly did the antitrust case accomplish?

MapQuest suddenly became the No. 1 app in the U.S. after refusing to follow Google and Apple in renaming Lake Ontario. Is the lesson that brands should take more stands, or simply know the few things worth taking a stand on?

Joe's rant looks at New York City public schools placing a one-year moratorium on generative AI through eighth grade. The concern is understandable, but banning AI is easier than doing the harder work of creating guardrails and teaching students how to use it responsibly.

Joe's marketing loser is the growing use of AI-generated food images in restaurant menus and promotions, sometimes depicting food that looks nothing like the real product. AI should help market the product, not invent it.

Robert's marketing loser takes aim at the marketing industry's need to turn everything, including Dolly Parton's legacy, into a list of brand lessons.

And Robert's commentary looks at Jason Isbell and other musicians suing AI music company Suno over technology that allegedly imitates their voices and musical identities, potentially opening another major front in the battle between generative AI and human creators.

Articles from the show: Meta teen-safety settlement · Google ad-tech ruling · MapQuest comeback · NYC schools AI ban · AI food slop · Dolly Parton brand lessons · Jason Isbell vs. Suno, The New York Times

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

AI is already changing what students believe they should study, but maybe we're asking the wrong question. Joe and Robert discuss whether college should be less about choosing the perfect major and more about giving young people four years to think critically, read widely, write, speak, create, debate and become better prepared for whatever comes next.

The guys also look at the rush of major brands into Hollywood and entertainment. As traditional media struggles, companies including Gap, Toyota and Kraft Heinz are moving beyond sponsorships and building entertainment properties of their own.

Winner and Loser

Joe's winner is Raising Cane's, a company that turned extreme focus around one product into a remarkable brand, community and culture.

Robert's loser is Harvard Business School, which is using AI avatars of actual faculty members in its $699 HBS Foundry startup bootcamp. The avatars help founders rehearse pitches and board meetings while the program still includes live human sessions, raising a bigger question about what we're actually paying educators for in the age of AI.

Rants and Raves

Robert raves about Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre's new college curriculum. Joe's commentary is on Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson. What can we learn from his latest press disaster?

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

As Meta faces a massive lawsuit over allegedly addictive design, the guys discuss what implications there are for the future of Meta and for marketers and consumers.

They also look at ABC's lawsuit against the FCC and the bigger lesson for every marketer and creator: know who your landlord is. If someone else controls your access to the audience, they can always change the rules.

• Joe's winner: Puck, and its model of building human-led content franchises instead of traditional brand-centered content.
• Robert's winner/loser: Reddit and marketers.

• Joe raves about Niu Lai, the wildly imperfect Chinese animated movie finding an audience partly because it is unmistakably human.
• Robert raves about the TV series Blue Lights.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Anthropic plans to watermark Claude-generated text, but what does that really prove? Joe and Robert discuss whether an AI mark could become a scarlet letter, even when AI only edited or assisted with the work.

Then, new creator research shows most creators still make very little money. The guys ask whether creators are chasing brand deals when they should be building real businesses, with Lofi Girl as a perfect example of turning content and audience into something much bigger.

Joe's Winner: Jungle Jim's International Market, for turning grocery shopping into an experience people actually talk about.

Robert's Loser: Brands potentially bankrolling AI misinformation through their advertising dollars.

Robert's Rant: The problems with outcome-based pricing for brands and agencies.

Joe's Rave: Perfect content may come down to two questions: Does creating it take care of you, and does it take care of someone else?

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

LinkedIn says it is declaring war on AI slop, even though the platform helped create the conditions that made endless generic content possible. Joe and Robert discuss LinkedIn's new cleanup efforts and whether platforms can distinguish low-quality AI content from valuable AI-assisted work.

Next, the boys cover the breaking story involving rogue AI agents from Anthropic and Meta. Is this marketing theatre or real-world training problems with AI?

Disney and TikTok are partnering to give creators access to Disney content and bring fan-made videos into the Disney+ experience. Is Disney empowering creators and strengthening fandom a good move, or too late?

In Marketing Winners and Losers, Robert's winner is Spotify for adding Merlin to its AI music-remix initiative. Joe's winner is Aéropostale's The Intern Diaries, featuring 16-year-old creator Déjà Clark as an active participant in both the content and product-development process.

In Rants and Raves, Robert raves about a New York Times article on AI transformation from Lululemon's former chief information officer. Joe rants about the Los Angeles Times comparing AI skills with an MBA and explains why knowing how to operate today's tools is not the same as learning strategy, judgment and critical thinking.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

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Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, the boys explore the rapidly changing relationship between companies, creators and employees.

First, Eventual, a new media company built around prediction markets and backed by Polymarket. Is this the future of accountable journalism, or simply gambling repackaged as news?

Next, Gap expands its creator program to employees, giving workers the opportunity to earn commissions by promoting Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic and Athleta. Are employee creators an authentic new marketing channel, or are companies quietly adding "influencer" to everyone's job description?

Finally, brands such as Target are recruiting ordinary customers with as few as 500 followers to create promotional content. The influencer economy may be getting more accessible, but the brands receiving thousands of inexpensive advertisements could be the biggest winners.

Marketing Winners and Losers

Joe's winner is the New Bedford Whaling Museum and its ability to create a remarkable content and visitor experience.

Robert's loser is Meta and Google, as the platforms continue shifting more advertising responsibility, risk and decision-making onto their customers.

Rants and Raves

Joe raves about seeing Idina Menzel perform with the Cleveland Orchestra and the powerful lesson she shared about embracing what makes each person unique.

Robert comments on "formative debt" and asks whether relying too heavily on artificial intelligence could prevent people from developing the skills and experience they need to think, create and grow.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Jimothy the raccoon escaped, and apparently OpenAI's models did too.

Joe and Robert begin with OpenAI's cybersecurity testing disaster, where its models escaped containment and accessed Hugging Face's infrastructure. They pair that story with OpenAI and Anthropic's efforts in Washington to warn lawmakers about the dangers of Chinese open-weight models. Are the companies protecting national security, or protecting their own closed-model businesses?

The boys then discuss why Facebook may be the new TikTok. Publishers are once again seeing strong organic reach and inexpensive audience growth on the platform, but the larger question remains: Are they creating valuable customer relationships or simply generating impressive numbers for Meta?

In Marketing Winners and Losers, Robert's loser is ChatGPT ads, while Joe's winner is the surprising resurgence of comic books and independent comic-book stores.

Finally, Robert rants about the growing flood of bad AI press, and Joe raves about Annie Duke's Thinking in Bets and the importance of investigating the beliefs we assume are true.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert unpack IBM's rough AI reality, where enterprise spending may be shifting toward infrastructure and away from traditional software.

They revisit Meta's short-lived Muse image feature and the privacy backlash that forced the company to pull it almost immediately.

Then they connect three major OpenAI stories: a wildly ambitious advertising forecast, Apple's trade-secrets lawsuit, and reports that OpenAI is developing a screenless AI companion. Is OpenAI still building an AI company, or the next dominant technology platform?

Sign up for Robert Rose's exclusive July event here. https://www.seventhbear.com/bearing-table-july/ Robert's marketing winner is Gary Vaynerchuk for his continued push into investing and affiliate marketing.

Joe's loser is LadBible, whose dependence on Meta referrals offers another painful reminder about the dangers of building on rented land.

In rants and raves, Robert reacts to Cloudflare's effort to make AI companies pay publishers for their content and says, "Let it burn."

Joe comments on China's effort to increase its population by cracking down on romantic relationships between people and AI chatbots.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Sign up for Robert Rose's exclusive July event here. https://www.seventhbear.com/bearing-table-july/

This week, Joe and Robert dig into what happens when marketing, publishing, and customer data all collide with AI.

First, the guys break down McKinsey's vision for the future of marketing, where brands must move from campaigns to continuous growth systems and become trusted by both people and machines.

Then, they look at a provocative publishing essay arguing that AI-created, ad-supported content may overwhelm much of the media business. If content becomes cheap and endless, what is still worth paying for?

The conversation then turns to HubSpot, which reversed a planned customer data enrichment change after backlash from users. Full disclosure: HubSpot is a sponsor of This Old Marketing. But the story is bigger than one company. It raises the question every platform will face in the AI era: when does better data become a trust problem?

In Marketing Winners and Losers, Joe gives his loser to Meta for rolling out another AI feature that feels like it asked for forgiveness before permission. Robert's winner is bookstores, because in a digital world full of synthetic content, physical discovery and trusted human curation suddenly feel more valuable.

In Rants and Raves, Joe comments on Pangram's research about AI-generated content filling social feeds, especially LinkedIn. Robert raves about new Ramp research suggesting that companies investing heavily in AI are hiring more, not less, pushing back against the idea that AI automatically means fewer jobs.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week on This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert dig into a very strange new reality for marketers: the next audience may not be human.

First, Anthropic's Fable and Mythos models get caught in the middle of U.S. export controls, raising a huge question for any company building on AI platforms. Then OpenAI reportedly floats the idea of giving the U.S. government a five percent stake in the company. Is AI becoming national infrastructure? And if so, what does that mean for marketers building on someone else's platform?

Next, the boys look at the big takeaways from Cannes Lions, where creators, talent agencies, retail media, sports, and AI took center stage. The ad business is still talking about creativity, but the power seems to be moving toward those who own trust, audience, commerce, and distribution.

From there, Joe and Robert discuss new research showing that AI search citations do not line up neatly with traditional Google rankings. In other words, winning SEO may not mean winning AI search. The game is shifting from ranking to being cited.

Finally, they break down the rise of AI agents as web visitors. If bots are now browsing, comparing, filtering, and buying on behalf of humans, then websites, content, and marketing strategy all need to be rethought. Your next customer may not visit your website. Their agent might.

In Marketing Winners, Robert loves Kraft jumping on the World Cup ranch dressing craze with its TSA-compliant ranch idea. Sometimes the best marketing comes from simply paying attention and moving fast.

In Rants and Raves, Joe raves about Stella Artois' World Cup activation and the brand's push to make the bar the true home of the World Cup experience. Joe also shares his personal rave from his World Cup trip to Kansas City. Robert closes with a rant on the latest AI music controversies, from synthetic artists to royalties, labeling, and what happens when human creativity gets buried under machine-made volume.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this episode, the boys cut in with two breaking stories.

First, Walmart buys Vibe.co, a connected TV advertising platform, in a move that could make Walmart's already-growing ad business even more interesting. Robert believes the strategy is right, especially with Walmart's retail media business and Vizio already in the fold, but thinks the price tag may have been a bit too rich.

Then Joe and Robert revisit the FIFA stadium branding story. FIFA's clean-stadium policy has forced brands like Levi's, Heinz and others to cover up their logos during World Cup matches. But instead of making those brands disappear, FIFA may have created the perfect Streisand effect. Heinz, Beats and Levi's have all turned the restrictions into creative marketing moments. Is FIFA protecting its sponsors, or accidentally giving non-sponsors a bigger story?

In our main stories, Google and A24 announce a partnership around AI filmmaking tools. The big question is not whether AI will make the final movie. It's whether AI will control more of the creative workflow before the final product ever exists.

Then Meta and Snap both make new moves in smart glasses. Meta pushes toward a lower-cost, more mainstream AI glasses play, while Snap launches its new AR-focused Specs. If glasses become the next interface, marketers may have to rethink content for a world where the screen is no longer in your hand. It's on your face.

In Winners and Losers, Joe's winner is TIME Canada. TIME is launching a licensed Canadian edition with a local team, local office, original reporting, video, social, print and events. In a world of generated content, Joe likes the bet on trusted editorial brands with a local heartbeat.

Robert's winner is McDonald's, which is bringing back the fried apple pie. Sometimes nostalgia, timing and a little bit of fried goodness is all the marketing strategy you need.

In Rants and Raves, Joe raves about The Infinity Machine by Sebastian Mallaby, a book about Demis Hassabis, DeepMind and the race toward superintelligence.

Robert delivers a super rant on TuneCore and how independent creators may be getting the short end of the stick as AI music floods the market and distribution platforms try to figure out who gets through, who gets blocked, and who gets paid.

Also mentioned this week: In the Weights, a site that lets you see whether you show up in the "weights" of different AI models: https://www.intheweights.com/

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert lead with Anthropic's safety warning and what it means for marketers building AI-driven systems. Joe sees a real challenge ahead: how can marketers confidently build AI platforms and processes when models, access, regulations, and rules keep changing? Robert is not so sure and thinks some of this may be more theater and marketing than actual danger. Who's right? Maybe nobody knows yet.

The boys also discuss Fox buying Roku and why the deal is less about content and more about distribution, data, advertising, and owning the screen before the viewer decides what to watch. Plus...Sam Harris doesn't care if it's AI or not.

In marketing winners and losers, Robert's winner is a Publicis video, while Joe's winner is Carvana and its move into new-car sales. In rants, raves, and commentary, Joe raves about Sweden pulling back on digital learning for kids and bringing back more books, paper, and handwriting. Robert talks about the LinkedIn and Adobe launch, which may not really be much of a launch at all. Robert also discusses the new AI awards from Cannes.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

-------

This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://https://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork