Upzoned

Would you welcome a massive data center to your town if the developer promised your household $1,000 every year? That's the offer facing residents of De Soto, Kansas, in Isabella Ledonne's article, “De Soto Data Center Plans to Offer $1,000 to Households, but Neighbors Say They're Not So Sure.” Norm Van Eeden Petersman examines the deal with Greg Miller of the Center for Land Economics and Strong Towns Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt. The project could bring enormous new property value, but much of the resulting tax revenue may be tied up financing infrastructure for the development itself. The developer is offering residents a cut of the profits, but how much could the community be leaving on the table?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Greg Miller (LinkedIn)
• Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn)
• Articles mentioned and Downzone:

• Don’t Reject Data Centers. Negotiate Harder. (Article)
• You Can See Everything (Movie)
• The Blackthorn Key by Kevin Sands (Book Series)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

“Build it and they will come” sounds confident until the project is finished and nobody comes. The Neighborhood Playbook, a placemaking guide built around testing what people actually respond to before making larger investments, turns 10 this year. Carlee Alm-LaBar revisits it with coauthor Joe Nickol of Yard & Company and Max Musicant of The Musicant Group, asking what a decade of use says about planning places through action instead of prediction. The tension between planning and doing remains: how much should a place decide up front, and how much should it discover through action?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "Activating Spaces and Developing Places with "The Neighborhood Playbook"" by John Pattison, Strongtowns.org
• Downzone:

• Strong Towns National Gathering in Sacramento, California June 4-7 2027 (Site)
• More Than True: The Wisdom of Fairy Tales by Robert Bly (Book)
• Debt: The First 5,000 Years, Updated and Expanded by David Graeber (Book)
• Daily Dad (Site)
• Hell on Wheels (Site)

• Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn)
• Joe Nickol (LinkedIn), Yard & Co. (Site)
• Max Musicant (LinkedIn), The Musicant Group (Site)
• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Edmonton changed its zoning to allow more homes in existing neighborhoods, and Alberta has now given the city three months to undo those reforms. The fight, reported by Global News in “Edmonton Mayor Pushes Back as Alberta Orders Reversal of Infill Housing Rules,” targets changes that expanded housing options and removed parking mandates. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Dear Winnipeg author Michel Durand-Wood and Strong Towns chief technical advisor Edward Erfurt to examine why those reforms triggered such a fierce backlash and whether the sudden jump in larger infill means the rules went too far or simply exposed demand that had been bottled up.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Dear Winnipeg (Site), You'll Pay For This! (Book)
• Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn)
• Articles mentioned and Downzone:

• He Ain’t NIMBY, He’s My Brother (Article)
• The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable: With a New Section: On Robustness and Fragility by Nassim Taleb (Book)
• The Little Book of Springerle by L. Heart (Book)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

A reliable bus is a big improvement, but Mobile is also looking at how appearance, comfort and the experience around the trip can make transit more appealing to people who have other options. The idea comes from “A Streetcar Named Spiro: Mobile Mayor Pushes Trolley-Filled Future,” published by AL.com and Mass Transit. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with Levette Fuller, Strong Towns board member, and Wanda Cochran, an attorney in Mobile, Alabama, about what happens after the basics start working. The trolley idea gets at the gap between a transit system that technically works and one that people actually want to use, especially in a city where most residents are accustomed to driving. Better service helps close that gap, but so does making the ride feel more inviting and making the experience around the bus stop more comfortable and practical.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "A Streetcar Named Spiro: Mobile mayor pushes trolley-filled future" by John Sharp, Masstransitmag.com (September 2026)
• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Levette Fuller (LinkedIn)
• Wanda Cochran (LinkedIn)
• Articles mentioned and Downzone:

• Unforgiving Places: The Unexpected Origins of American Gun Violence by Jens Ludwig (Book)
• Richard Scarry (Site)
• Ian McGilchrist (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

States are legalizing ADUs, cutting parking mandates, and changing zoning, but it's still difficult to estimate how much housing each of those reforms will actually produce. Carlee Alm-LaBar talks with Arnold Ventures housing director Stephanie Kestelman, The Turnout’s Grace Gordon, and Strong Towns executive director John Reuter about the Housing Data and Technology Innovation Challenge, a nine-week competition asking teams to build open-source tools that estimate the effects of housing reforms using public data and transparent assumptions. Plenty of housing reforms have arrived with big promises about what they’ll produce and then fallen short; building these tools could give people a better way to challenge the assumptions behind those promises and be clearer about what the available data can actually support.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• Housing Data and Technology Innovation Challenge by The Turnout and Arnold Ventures
• Downzone:

• The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt
• A Paradise of Small Houses: The Evolution, Devolution, and Potential Rebirth of Urban Housing by Max Podemski
• The Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer

• Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn)
• Dr. Stephanie Kestelman (LinkedIn)
• Grace Gordon (LinkedIn)
• John Reuter (LinkedIn)
• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Seven years of planning have not produced a version of Boston’s Blue Hill Avenue redesign that everyone can live with. In the Boston Globe article “More Parking, Fewer Bike Lanes: City of Boston and MBTA Release New Blue Hill Avenue Redesign,” the latest proposal restores parking and traffic space while reducing parts of the planned bike network. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with transportation historian Peter Norton and Ann Arbor transportation manager Malisa McCreedy about what happens when a street is expected to satisfy every demand, even when those priorities conflict. As each revision absorbs another concern, the challenge is whether the city can keep its focus on what will actually work best there instead of reopening the same choices again and again.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "More parking, fewer bike lanes: City of Boston, T release new Blue Hill Avenue redesign" by Diti Kohli, Bostonglobe.com (Without paywall here, from September 2026)
• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Peter Norton (LinkedIn)
• Malisa McCreedy (LinkedIn)
• Downzone:

• Ballot Babes (Podcast)
• The Ark (Site)
• Andy Boenau (X)
• The Mis-Education of the Negro by Carter G. Woodson (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

A New York condo sold for $238 million, but the city assessed it at just $15.5 million. Mayor Zohran Mamdani has framed his new pied-à-terre tax as a way to “tax the rich,” but a recent article by Ken Girardin, “The Sheer Absurdity of New York’s Pied-à-Terre Tax,” argues that the bigger problem sits underneath it. Chuck Marohn talks with Urban Three founder Joe Minicozzi and land economist Lars Doucet about how classifications, assessment caps, and decades of special rules can shift the tax burden away from high-value property. If the system is already distorted, does adding another tax make it fairer or just harder to fix?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "The Absurdity of New York City’s Pied-à-Terre Tax" by Ken Girardin, Theatlantic.com (September 2026)
• Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn)
• Joe Minicozzi (LinkedIn), URBAN3 (Site)
• Lars Doucet (LinkedIn), Center for Land Economics (Site)
• Articles Mentioned an Downzone:

• DALT: Depreciation-Assisted Land Value Tax (Substack)
• Moneygpt: AI and the Threat to the Global Economy by James Rickards (Site)
• Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less by Leidy Klotz (Site)
• Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die by Chip Heath and Dan Heath (Site)
• Book Review: The Natural Dividend (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

What happens when something people have always treated as free suddenly gets a price tag? A USA Today article, “Shopping Malls Are Charging for Prime Parking. It’s Not Going Well,” looks at what happens when a long-standing free amenity suddenly has a visible cost. Carlee Alm-LaBar talks with Parking Reform Network founder Tony Jordan and developer Monte Anderson of Neighborhood Evolution about what changes when shoppers are asked to pay directly for that convenience. For owners, “free” parking has never actually been free: the lot still has to be paved, repaired, cleaned, secured, and eventually rebuilt, even when much of it sits empty. If the land is expensive to maintain, could it be doing something more useful?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "Shopping malls are charging for prime parking. It's not going well" by Jessica Guynn, Usatoday.com (August 2026)
• Downzone:

• The Urban Climate Solution (Site)
• Civic Leader Summit (Site)
• Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill (Site)

• Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn)
• Tony Jordan (LinkedIn), Parking Reform Network (Site)
• Monte Anderson (LinkedIn), Options Real Estate (Site)
• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

A Los Angeles couple set out to build a 400-square-foot backyard home for about $300,000, only to watch the final cost climb to $600,000 in a project recently profiled by Lisa Boone in the Los Angeles Times. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with Tamara White of Small Housing and Mary Coddington, founder of 12 Incorporated, about what pushed the cost so high. The couple chose an ambitious design and built on a difficult site, but they also had two major advantages many small housing projects never get: they already owned the land, and they were allowed to build. If the land and permissions were already in place, what made the price skyrocket, and how much of that complexity could actually be removed?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "A compact ADU built on a dramatic ridgeline ‘floats’ over L.A. and its Midcentury neighbor" by Lisa Boone, Latimes.com (August 2026)
• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Tamara White (LinkedIn)
• Mary Coddington (LinkedIn)
• Articles mentioned and Downzone:

• 'She couldn’t afford L.A. rent after law school. Her parents’ ADU came to the rescue' (Article)
• Courtenay Cohousing (Site)
• A Voter’s Guide to Asking Candidates about Housing (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

A six-year-old rides his scooter to a playground a quarter mile from home. Two days later, Child Protective Services is at his family’s door. His case is one of several in a recent New York Times article asking whether letting children play outside alone has effectively become a crime. Chuck Marohn talks with Lenore Skenazy, founder of the Free-Range Kids movement and president of Let Grow, and planner and pedestrian-safety advocate Angie Schmitt about “worst-first thinking,” neglect laws, and the decline of walking and biking to school. Parents are expected to raise capable, independent kids while also keeping them under constant watch, while the built environment often makes even short walks to school or the playground harder for children to navigate on their own.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "Should Letting Children Play Alone Outside Be a Crime?" by Ian Frisch, Nytimes.com (August 2026)
• Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn)
• Lenore Skenazy (LinkedIn), Let Grow (Site)
• Angie Schmitt (LinkedIn), Love of Place (Substack)
• Downzone:

• World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max Brooks (Site)
• The Wisdom of Not Knowing: Discovering a Life of Wonder by Embracing Uncertainty by Estelle Frankel (Site)
• A Marriage at Sea: A True Story of Love, Obsession, and Shipwreck by YSophie Elmhirst (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

An eight-mile gap keeps Los Angeles from having a continuous river bike route through the heart of the city. Voters approved hundreds of millions of dollars to help close it, but years of planning have pushed the project toward a possible billion-dollar price tag. Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by transportation advocate Dave Snyder, Pasadena city councilmember and longtime local government leader Rick Cole, and Strong Towns chief technical advisor Edward Erfurt to examine how a straightforward connection became a megaproject. Flood control, emergency access, environmental concerns, neighborhood connections, labor requirements, and long-term reliability have each added something defensible to the plan. Meanwhile, a simpler path could reportedly close the entire gap with the money already available.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "The eight-mile gap in the L.A. River bike path downtown has a billion-dollar problem" by Mack Baysinger, Latimes.com (August 2026)
• Downzone:

• Start Your Farm: The Authoritative Guide to Becoming a Sustainable 21st-Century Farmer, by Ellen Polishuk and Forrest Pritchard (Site)
• the Movement Newsletter (Substack)

• Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn)
• Dave Snyder (LinkedIn)
• Rick Cole (LinkedIn)
• Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn)
• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Hartman, Colorado, reached a point where it could no longer function as a town. Its water system was unsafe, every member of the town board had resigned, and no one remained with the authority to hold an election or sign the agreements needed to fix the water. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Joshua Hopkins, mayor of Chugwater, Wyoming, and Strong Towns executive director John Reuter to look past the political infighting and ask what happened before the final collapse. The question facing places like Hartman and Chugwater is increasingly basic: How much town can a very small community actually afford to maintain?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "Colorado declares town abandoned amid water and leadership crisis" by Ramon Antonio Vargas, Theguardian.com (August 2026)
• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Joshua Hopkins (LinkedIn, Instagram)
• John Reuter (LinkedIn)
• Articles mentioned and Downzone:

• How a Rodeo Arena Can Strengthen A Rural Community (Bottom-Up Short Episode)
• Don’t Give Up on Your Small Town (Article)
• Whatever Happened to the Music Teacher? How Government Decides and Why by Donald Savoie (Book)
• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini (Book)
• Chugwaterite (Instagram)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

What if the easiest way to overcome opposition to new housing was simply to pay people to accept it? A recent article in The Atlantic argues that after state laws, packed public meetings, and economic appeals have failed to overcome local resistance, cash payments might succeed where persuasion has not. Chuck Marohn is joined by John Reuter, executive director of Strong Towns, and Dr. Chloe Groome, treasurer of Strong Towns Chicago, to test that idea against what they’ve seen in real neighborhoods. Their discussion turns to what happens when new neighbors are framed as a burden, and whether cash can do the work that persuasion, trust, and local relationships have failed to do.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "A Perfectly Crude Solution to America’s Housing Shortage" by Rogé Karma, Theatlantic.com (July 2026)
• Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn)
• John Reuter (LinkedIn)
• Dr. Chloe Groome (LinkedIn), Strong Towns Chicago (Site)
• Articles Mentioned and Downzone:

• The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt (Site)
• Farm To Taber (YouTube Channel)
• Stolen Revolution: Betrayal and Hope in Modern Iran by Yeganeh Torbati and Bozorgmehr Sharafedin (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

What happens when one generation holds much of the country’s housing wealth and has little reason to give it up? Chuck Marohn talks with Strong Towns board chair Andrew Burleson and historic property renovator Richard Rumrill about boomers buying bigger homes, even as younger families wait for those houses to come back onto the market. The generational frustration is easy to understand, but the expected handoff assumes older homeowners will be ready to leave. What happens when the people expected to move have nowhere they want to go, and everyone behind them is still waiting?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "Boomers Were Supposed to Downsize. They Are Buying Bigger Homes Instead." by Rachel Louise Ensign, Wsj.com (July 2026)
• Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn)
• Andrew Burleson (LinkedIn), Free Range City (Substack)
• Richard Rumrill (LinkedIn), Strong Towns RVA (Site)
• Articles Mentioned and Downzone:

• Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan (Site)
• Kids Over Cars (Substack)
• #42 Charles Duff: North Atlantic Cities - The Forgotten Blueprint for the Future Building Culture (Podcast)
• The North Atlantic Cities by Charles Duff (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Americans have been told that buying a home is one of the safest ways to secure their future. But when retirement depends on home values continuing to climb, affordability begins to look like a threat. Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by Daniel Herriges, co-author of Escaping the Housing Trap, and Alli Thurmond-Quinlan, executive director of the Incremental Development Alliance. Together, they push beyond the idea that housing is simply an investment problem. Limited supply, narrow housing choices, transportation, retirement, and municipal finance are all tied into the same system, leaving people with fewer ways to find security at every stage of life.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "The Housing Crisis Is Also a Retirement Crisis" by Kyla Scanlon, Nytimes.com (July 2026)
• Downzone:

• From Strength to Strength, by Arthur C. Brooks (Site)
• Construction Physics (Substack)
• World Cup 2026 (Site)

• Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn)
• Daniel Herriges (LinkedIn)
• Alli Thurmond-Quinlan (LinkedIn)
• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

In 2009, Chicago traded 75 years of parking meter revenue for a $1.2 billion payment that helped fill an immediate budget hole. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Tony Jordan, executive director of the Parking Reform Network, and Edward Erfurt, chief technical advisor at Strong Towns, to look at what the city actually gave up and why its recent $3.3 billion bid never made it to the finish line. The lease still shapes decisions about removing parking for bus lanes, bike lanes and wider sidewalks, while the revenue keeps flowing to a private operator instead of back into the places generating it. That leaves Chicago with a much harder question than whether the original deal was bad: what would it take to manage the curb again, regain flexibility and use that money to improve the streets themselves?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "Mayor’s $3 Billion Parking Meter Offer Was $800 Million More Than The Next Highest Bid, Investor Says" by Mick Dumke, Blockclubchicago.org (June 2026)
• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Tony Jordan (Site)
• Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn)
• Articles mentioned and Downzone:

• 'Why ‘SimCity’ has no parking lots, and other insights from the lead designer' (Article)
• Simulating the Future: a webinar with Stone Librande (Video)
• A Wailing Of A Town: An Oral History of Early San Pedro Punk And More 1977-1985 by Craig Ibarra (Book)
• Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better by Jennifer Pahlka (Book)
• Sam Walton: Made In America, by Sam Walton and John Huey (Book)
• Microlandia (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Five years after wildfire destroyed most of Lytton, British Columbia, rebuilding remains slow despite more than $140 million in committed public funding. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with Michel Durand-Wood, author of You’ll Pay for This, and Graham Watt, who manages strategic initiatives and flood recovery for Grand Forks, British Columbia. They look at what happens when a small town is pushed to rebuild everything at once, while also dealing with hazardous conditions, limited local capacity, consulting costs, modern codes, and the long-term obligation to maintain whatever comes next. The money creates a promise of recovery, but Lytton shows how hard it is to turn that promise back into a town.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "Inside Lytton’s contentious recovery, where concerns smoulder 5 years after wildfire" by Brenna Owen, Halifax.citynews.ca (June 2026)
• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Michel Durand-Wood (Site)
• Graham Watt (LinkedIn)
• Downzone:

• The Baby-Sitters Club
• Human Nature by Kate Marvel (Site)
• The Blackthorn Key, by Kevin Sands (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Chuck Marohn has long been critical of housing research that treats affordability as a simple supply problem. This week, he brings Andrew Burleson, chair of the Strong Towns board, and Jeff Fong, a board member at YIMBY Action, a new paper on Australia’s housing crisis that starts somewhere else: with the way price increases move between detached houses and apartments, and from one city to another. The paper argues that detached homes help lead the market, while the discussion keeps returning to a harder question: how much of the crisis is about housing supply, and how much is about the financial incentives built into the market?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "The role of price spillovers in the Australian housing crisis: A two-market analysis" by Shu-Hen Chiang, Chyi Lin Lee, and Chi Man Eddie Hiu, Sciencedirect.com (June 2026)
• Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn)
• Andrew Burleson (LinkedIn), Free Range City (Substack)
• Jeff Fong (LinkedIn), Urban Proxima (Substack)
• Articles Mentioned and Downzone:

• Fifa (Site)
• 'We Can Never Go Back' (Substack)
• Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest Company, by Patrick McGee (Goodreads)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

When Charlotte and its regional planning body withdrew support for a $4.3 billion widening of Interstate 77, North Carolina lawmakers responded by threatening a $60 million penalty and a funding cutoff. Host Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by Patrick Kennedy, whose Atlas of Inner-City Highway Impacts documents highway damage across 142 cities, and John Reuter, the newly named Executive Director of Strong Towns, to break down the sunk cost trap, the real math behind highway "assets," and why the local officials who pushed back may have saved far more than they spent.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "N.C. Lawmakers May Claw Back $60M for Cancelled I-77 Project" by Ray Gronberg, Businessnc.com (June 2026)
• Downzone:

• Atlas of Inner-City Highway Impacts (PDF)
• Mission Accomplished (Site)
• Dealing with Dragons (Site)
• Fifa (Site)

• Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn)
• Patrick Kennedy (LinkedIn)
• John Reuter (LinkedIn)
• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

A decade ago, a row of North Park storefronts was cleared for a university housing project that never came. The businesses are gone, the buildings are mostly empty, and neighbors are still pushing Northeastern Illinois University to act. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Bernice Radle, an incremental developer in Buffalo, and Alex Montero of Strong Towns Chicago to ask why places like this get stuck. What begins as the story of one vacant block turns into a deeper question: once a place has been cleared for a future vision, what happens when that future never arrives? The conversation explores why smaller, incremental approaches can succeed where larger plans stall, and what gets lost when neighborhoods are left waiting.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• "Northeastern University Fought To Take Over A North Park Block. 10 Years Later, It’s Still Vacant" by Millie DeVore, Blockclubchicago.com (May 2026)
• Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)
• Bernice Radle (LinkedIn)
• Alex Montero (LinkedIn)
• Articles Mentioned and Downzone:

• The Corner Side Yard (Substack)
• Cerrone (Spotify)
• Brittania Mine Museum (Site)

• Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.