A Better Peace: The War Room Podcast

Retired General Joseph Votel joins host Tom Spahr to revisit Objective Rhino—the high-stakes October 2001 mission that put the first overt U.S. boots on the ground in Afghanistan. General Votel, who commanded the 75th Ranger Regiment during the airborne assault, reflects on the realities of plunging into the unknown shortly after September 11. He explains how what began as a rapid airfield seizure quickly evolved into a broader campaign of desert raids, forcing elite light infantry to overcome demanding mobility and logistical hurdles.
Beyond the battlefield, General Votel shares vital leadership lessons. He discusses why tactical success must align with realistic strategic goals and honest conversations about risk. He also highlights the importance of fostering strong, curious partnerships with intelligence teams, urging future leaders to listen to ground-level experts, adapt as situations evolve, and stay grounded in the fundamentals of sound leadership. Tune in to explore these enduring lessons in military command and strategy.

RANGERS, RISKS, AND REALITY: OBJECTIVE RHINO

Forty years ago, the Goldwater-Nichols Act reshaped how the U.S. military operates. Passed in 1986 following coordination breakdowns in operations like Vietnam and the Iranian hostage rescue, the law forced the branches to overcome fierce rivalries and operate as a joint team.
Host Ron Granieri sits down with Bob Bradford and Levi Rains to examine whether those reforms worked, where friction remains, and where defense reform goes next. Together, they break down the tension between the services—responsible for training and equipping forces—and regional combatant commanders who employ those troops in real-world missions. The discussion explores how the law clarified the chain of command, mandated joint officer education, and balanced readiness against immediate crises.
Looking ahead, Bradford and Rains consider what future reorganization should tackle, from synchronizing military strategy across other government departments to joint force design.

RIVALRIES, READINESS, AND REALIGNMENT: GOLDWATER-NICHOLS 40 YEARS LATER

Shaping an opponent’s expectations can change an entire operation’s course. Tom Spahr sits down with naval flight officer and strategist Mike "Quatto" Posey to break down the craft and impact of military deception.
Posey explains that deception is far more than a fun trick—it achieves real benefits through the manipulation of an adversary’s choices. From World War II’s ghost armies to decoys drawing fire in Ukraine, convincing the enemy to look the wrong way dramatically tilts the odds. Even in a world of ubiquitous sensors, satellites, and drones, human psychology remains the ultimate battlefield. Visibility does not equal understanding, and clever planners exploit confirmation bias by feeding opponents clues they already want to believe.
Adversaries can also target the larger public by exploiting these same cognitive vulnerabilities through social media and news feeds. Resisting manipulation requires sharpening media literacy and practicing critical thinking daily. It’s a great discussion of the history, art, and high-stakes psychology behind military deception.

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Headlines typically highlight how high-tech drones are transforming combat, but the raw reality of protracted warfare still comes down to people.
Gil Barndollar, a senior research fellow and Marine veteran who has conducted multiple research trips across Ukraine, sits down with host Steve Trynosky to discuss what the West might be missing. Barndollar argues that Western militaries risk drawing the wrong conclusions from the conflict by focusing almost exclusively on technological innovation while overlooking the grueling demands of military manpower and societal mobilization.
From frontline exhaustion and strained rotation cycles to the messy friction of conscription, the war demonstrates that technology cannot replace mass or human endurance. Trynosky and Barndollar examine why peacetime societies struggle to prepare for the shared sacrifices required in sustained, large-scale conflict—and why assuming a nation can simply switch on a draft overnight is a dangerous gamble.
It is a sobering look at the human dimension that democracies must confront before the next crisis hits.

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Marking the 25th anniversary of September 11, host Jadwiga Biskupska sat down with deRaismes Combes to explore how that tragic morning permanently reshaped American security, culture, and everyday life. Drawing from her forthcoming book, "Becoming the Stranger: American Identity and Security in the Shadow of 9/11", Combes unpacks thousands of public records, media reports, and pop-culture touchstones to examine how our shared national story took root.
Rather than viewing the post-9/11 era as inevitable, she highlights the human choices that elevated counterterrorism into an open-ended state of war. From the routine hassles of airport screening to the expansion of covert drone strikes, daily routines quietly transformed as the lingering perception of threat shifted toward the unknown stranger next door.
Together, Combes and Biskupska tackle the central question of whether these sprawling policies have truly made us safer, or if enduring anxiety continues to sideline critical debate. For both those who remember the day vividly and the rising generation that only knows its aftermath, this discussion offers a vital, reflective look at risk, strategic empathy, and the hidden costs of national security.

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This week in the studio, editor-in-chief JP Clark sits down with Bryan Groves to discuss his new book, "When Presidents Fight the Last War: The Oval Office, Sunk Costs, and Wartime Decision-Making Since Vietnam." Groves, a U.S. Army strategist and accomplished academic, focuses on the difficult mid-conflict course-correction decisions made by presidents. His research uses an interdisciplinary approach to analyze how the enormous "sunk costs" of war—lives, time, and treasure—tempt presidents to escalate or "double down" on a conflict rather than cut their losses. Groves's analysis of five cases—including the Iraq surge and the Desert Storm endgame—reveals a major historical pivot: while pre-9/11 decisions were often guided by the fear of repeating the Vietnam "quagmire," post-9/11 decisions were also driven by the powerful lesson of preventing another domestic catastrophe.

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Twelve years ago last week, on May 2, 2011, the U.S. military conducted a raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan that killed Usama bin Laden. Once the mission was accomplished, the SEAL team conducted sensitive site exploitation and gathered up and returned with all of the materials and equipment they discovered in the compound. Nelly Lahoud and her team sorted through some 97,000 files and 6,000 pages of declassified documents, all in Arabic, to discover the truth about bin Laden and the al-Qaeda network. She's in the studio to discuss her book, "The Bin Laden Papers: How the Abbottabad Raid Revealed the Truth about Al-Qaeda, Its Leader and His Family" with host John Nagl. The information gleaned from this incredible undertaking paints a picture of a man and a network that, after the 9/11 attack, were confined, restrained and not very successful.

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How does an unremarkable and non-ideological businessman end up trying to bring nuclear weapons into the United States for a notorious terrorist organization? Former war crimes prosecutor Michael Lebowitz joins podcast editor Ron Granieri to explore this chilling reality in his new book, "Second Wave: Inside Al Qaeda's Post-9/11 Attack Plan and America's Secret Effort to Stop It." He dives into the true story of Saifullah Paracha and his son Uzair, two businessmen with New York ties who became entangled in Al-Qaeda's post-9/11 attack plans.
Lebowitz reveals how Al-Qaeda sought Saifullah’s expertise in international shipping and smuggling to help execute a massive "second wave" of attacks on the United States. The narrative also uncovers the intense, behind-the-scenes turf wars between the FBI, CIA, and the military over the Parachas. Clashing approaches to interrogation, intelligence gathering, and legal jurisdiction created messy outcomes, left the father and son in legal limbo for decades while they were detained at Guantanamo Bay or in the United States. This insider's look at America's counterterrorism response offers vital lessons on past successes and failures on combatting terrorist organizations.

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Colonel Oleksandr, a Ukrainian Army officer with 30 years of service, spent the 2026 academic year as an International Fellow at the U.S. Army War College. Joining host Jadwiga Biskupska, he offers a real-time perspective on fighting a massive adversary. Oleks explains how Ukraine relies on human innovation, revealing that older, simpler weapons often bypass advanced electronic warfare better than modern technology. Beyond studying American strategic frameworks, he brought the stark reality of the Russian invasion to his seminar peers, emphasizing the critical need for international alliances, economic strength, and understanding adversary culture. As he returns to the front lines, his insights provide enduring lessons on resilience and the human element in modern combat.

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Rapid innovation challenges any large government organization, but for the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) embracing artificial intelligence is essential to maintaining the joint force's competitive edge. Tom Spahr sat down with Major General Robert Kinney, the DIA's Chief AI Officer, to explore how the agency is navigating this digital transformation.
Rather than replacing human intelligence analysts, the DIA actively uses commercial AI tools to augment everyday processes and better manage the massive amounts of data generated on the modern battlefield. This technology efficiently handles time-consuming administrative tasks.
To overcome cultural resistance, the DIA focused on quick technological wins, such as launching an internal tool called "ChatDIA," and rolling out mandatory basic AI training for its workforce. Ultimately, Major General Kinney emphasizes that AI integration accelerates the human decision-making cycle, ensuring adversaries never outpace us on the global stage.

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Is maneuver warfare truly dead in modern combat? Tom Galvin sits down with Carlisle Scholars Kevin Krupski, Michael Moore, and Erick Buckner to examine the conventional wisdom that defense dominates the modern battlefield, making stalemate inevitable. Drawing on historical case studies and current events like the conflict in Ukraine, the team explains that it is possible to overcome tough defenses and get forces moving again. But doing so requires militaries must build system that combine classic military tactics with modern tools, deep planning, smart deception, and strong supply lines. Restoring battlefield movement is less about finding new gadgets and more about shifting strategies, adapting leadership, and mastering teamwork across every branch of service.

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Open-source intelligence is rapidly becoming a dominant force in national security, accounting for a significant portion of intelligence activities in western law enforcement and national security. But what happens when the internet is flooded with artificial intelligence hallucinations and digitally manufactured spam?
Tom Spahr sits down with Kelly Ihme and Michael Moore to explore how the intelligence community navigates this data deluge. They discuss the double-edged sword of AI: it is essential for sorting massive volumes of publicly available information, yet it introduces significant risks through deceptive "AI slop." Their conversation highlights the urgent need for a dedicated professional training pipeline for open-source analysts to establish credibility and standardization across the joint force.
Discover how analysts are adapting to this democratized information space, and why the ultimate tool in the AI era remains a focused human mind.

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Hiding military tools too well can weaken deterrence. Aaron Brown, Justin Bierens and Gerald Bowman join host Tom Galvin to discuss why the military must adopt a "share unless proven necessary to hide" approach for space operations.

https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/podcasts/declassifying-space

Why does WWII still captivate our imagination? Host Darrell Driver and military historian Doug Douds discuss how the conflict shapes modern geopolitics, unpacking pivotal moments, unsung advisors, and intriguing historical counterfactuals.

https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/podcasts/wwii-storytelling

On today’s high-tech battlefield, "safe" rear areas no longer exist. Combat units are bogged down dragging broken gear because the military lacks a middle tier for complex repairs. Octavia Davis & Scott Pinkstaff join host Steve Trynosky to map out the fix.

https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/podcasts/reshaping-military-maintenance

What happens when you unleash senior military students to fix bureaucracy? Guests Jared Britz and Josh Eggar join host Bob Bradford to discuss how Army War College students used tabletop exercises & AI tools to stress-test Army reforms and spot friction points.

https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/podcasts/unleashing-expertise

Can AI pass military exams? Kevin Boyce & John Nagl join host Tom Spahr to discuss testing ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude & Grok on Army War College comps. All passed, but limits caused AI to degrade under pressure, proving human judgment remains indispensable.

You can read the article Can AI Pass the U.S. Army War College? by Kevin Boyce, John Nagl and Kris Wheaton here https://publications.armywarcollege.edu/News/Display/Article/4472536/can-ai-pass-the-us-army-war-college/

You can find the manuscript Responsibly Pursuing Generative Artificial Intelligence (GenAI) for
the War Fighter by Blair Wilcox and Anthony Pfaff here https://press.armywarcollege.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3365&context=parameters

https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/podcasts/ai-comps

How has China transformed into a dominant naval power, and what strategic choices must the U.S. make to protect its interests in the Pacific? Toshi Yoshihara and James Holmes join Ron Granieri to discuss the third edition of Red Star Over the Pacific, which answers those very questions. The authors explain how Beijing synthesizes Western and Eastern strategic ideas to expand its maritime reach. Crucially, the conversation moves beyond simple threat assessments to explore how the United States should respond. Yoshihara and Holmes emphasize that the U.S. must maintain its unrivaled regional alliances, exploit competitive undersea strengths, and enforce strict strategic discipline to counter China's growing naval challenge.

China's quest for control in the maritime domain is driven both by a weird combination of both confidence and insecurity.

James Holmes, PhD, is the inaugural holder of the J.C. Wiley Chair of Maritime Strategy at the U.S. Naval War College and previously served on the faculty of the University of Georgia School of Public and International Affairs. A former U.S. Navy surface warfare officer, he also earned a PhD from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University.

Toshi Yoshihara, PhD, is a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. Previously, he was the inaugural John A. van Beuren Chair of Asia-Pacific Studies and a professor of strategy at the U.S. Naval War College. He holds a PhD from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Tufts University.

Photo Credit: Created by Gemini

How can the military adopt tech at the speed of relevance? Host Tom Galvin talks with Carlisle Scholars John Williams, Jeremy Jackson & Antonio Ilario on bridging the gap between bureaucratic acquisition timelines and rapid tech evolution.

Is a return to a military draft even viable? William Taylor and Katherine Kuzminski join JP Clark to bridge the gap between myth and reality regarding the all-volunteer force and the political and logistical hurdles of 21st-century mobilization.