Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship

How often do you pass up an opportunity to connect with someone because you're telling yourself you're not someone who needs it, you're worried about bothering them, or you simply don't feel like it? What if those small decisions are costing us more than we realize?

My guest is Nicholas Epley, psychologist, behavioral scientist, and professor at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. His new book, A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection, explores why reaching out to others often makes us happier than we expect.

One of the most fascinating parts of our conversation challenges what we believe about introverts and extroverts. Nick shares research showing that acting a little more outgoing can make us feel happier and even more authentic (not less as you might assume), regardless of how we typically describe ourselves.

We also discuss why we underestimate how positively others will respond when we reach out, our fear of bothering people, and why hearing someone's voice can communicate warmth that a text message simply can't.

As Nick reminds us, we don't have to overhaul our personalities or fill every free moment with conversation. We can enjoy our alone time while noticing more of the easy opportunities to connect that we're already passing up.

LINKS MENTIONED:

• A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection by Nicholas Epley
• Mindwise: Why We Misunderstand What Others Think, Believe, Feel, and Wantby Nicholas Epley
• Related episode: #200, "Why Talking to Strangers is Good for Your Friendships" with Dr. Gillian Sandstrom

MEET NICHOLAS EPLEY:

Nicholas Epley is the John Templeton Keller Distinguished Service Professor of Behavioral Science, and Director of the Roman Family Center for Decision Research, at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. He studies social cognition—how thinking people think about other thinking people—to understand why smart people so routinely misunderstand each other. He teaches an ethics and happiness course to MBA students called Designing a Good Life. His research has appeared in more than two dozen empirical journals, been featured by the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, CNN, Wired, and National Public Radio, among many others, and has been funded by the National Science Foundation and the Templeton Foundation. He has been awarded the 2008 Theoretical Innovation Award from the Society for Personality and Social Psychology, the 2011 Distinguished Scientific Award for Early Career Contribution to Psychology from the American Psychological Association, the 2015 Book Prize for the Promotion of Social and Personality Science, and the 2018 Career Trajectory Award from the Society for Experimental Social Psychology. Epley was named a “professor to watch” by the Financial Times, one of the “World’s Best 40 under 40 Business School Professors” by Poets and Quants, and one of the 100 Most Influential in Business Ethics in 2015 by Ethisphere He is the author of Mindwise: Why We Misunderstand What Others Think, Believe, Feel, and Want and A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

How to address hurt feelings, unmet expectations, and changing friendships

Have you ever been upset with a friend but decided it would be easier to say nothing? Maybe you're tired of always initiating plans, a friend made a joke that stung, or you sense that a once-close friendship is drifting. Sometimes we avoid these conversations because we don't want to make things awkward. But is staying silent actually helping the friendship?

My guest, Jewel Hohman, has spent nearly 6,000 hours coaching people on social anxiety and friendship. She joins me with a practical framework and scripts for deciding when to speak up, when to let something go, and how to have the conversation you've been avoiding.

We discuss:

• How to distinguish between an unmet need, a crossed boundary, and a passing irritation.
• Why it's important to consider whether something is a pattern or a one-time incident.
• Simple ways to tell a friend something bothered you without turning it into a major confrontation.
• How to approach a friend when you sense you're drifting apart—and why that may be the hardest conversation of all.
• Why speaking up doesn't guarantee that your friend's behavior will change.

As Jewel says, "Confrontation is truly an investment in the friendship." But that doesn't mean every disappointment needs a conversation or that every expectation we have of our friends is reasonable.

One of my biggest takeaways from this conversation is that we sometimes give up on friendships before giving our friends a chance to understand what's bothering us. We can't control their responses, but we can decide whether to speak up.

Is there a friendship conversation you've been avoiding? And would having it give that friendship a better chance?

LINKS MENTIONED:

• Jewel's "Complete Guide to Confronting Friends"
• Jewel's work with PS Society
• Episodes of Dear Nina that Jewel mentioned: #35. When You’re Putting More Effort Into a Friendship: Anna Goldfarb, #99. The 14-Day Friendship Mindset Cleanse: Anna Goldfarb, #102. Friendships Can Survive Hurt Feelings and Conflict: Shasta Nelson #118.Why Making Friends After 30 Can Feel So Hard: Julia Hotz, #202: When Friends Make Plans Without You:Danielle Bayard Jackson, #211: You Don’t Have to Be Fully Secure to Have Good Friendships: Dr. Marisa G. Franco
• My Substack post, "The Friends Who Rejected Us: Thank you"

MEET JEWEL HOHMAN

Jewel has nearly 6,000 hours of coaching focused on high-functioning social anxiety and friendship. She has been featured at conferences across the country, as well as on ABC 13, POPSUGAR, and guested on over 100 podcasts. Jewel is the Director of Programming for PS Society, a nonprofit dedicated to combating loneliness for women. Jewel is in her final year of earning her master’s in social work- with the goal of opening the first Social Prescribing Clinic in the Detroit area.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

When Your Friendship Needs Don't Match

Are you expecting too much from a friend, or are you accepting too little? It's a question that comes up again and again in the letters I receive from listeners of Dear Nina. Sometimes a friendship truly is one-sided. But sometimes two people care deeply about each other and simply have different needs from a friendship.

I'm bringing back a conversation from episode 80 with Minneapolis-based writer Sally Vardaman, author of Shoot the Arrows. Sally originally reached out after hearing an episode with my mom (episode 72) in which we discussed a friendship that ended, in part, because my mom felt the other person was "too needy."

Sally shared a remarkably honest story about being the friend who wanted more. For years, she felt disappointed that one of her closest friends couldn't meet certain emotional needs, even though they had a loving friendship. Eventually, they talked about the mismatch and found a way to move forward without expecting either person to change.

Sally and I discussed:

• Why "needy" is such a loaded word in friendship
• How insecurity can influence our expectations of friends
• Why we sometimes look to one particular friend for proof that we're loved
• How to set boundaries without abandoning a friendship
• Why having unmet needs doesn't necessarily mean a friend is letting us down

Can we accept that a friend isn't able to give us everything we're looking for without deciding they're a bad friend? And how do we know when we need to adjust our expectations versus reconsider the friendship itself?

LINKS MENTIONED:

• Episode 72: Grudges and Apologies in Friendships
• Books Sally has found helpful:

-Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller, a great assessment on attachment issues with lots of practical suggestions for all attachment types.

-Platonic by Marisa Franco, a look at attachment specifically in friendships (pretty sure I heard about this one through Dear Nina 🙂

-How to Be Your Own Best Friend by Mildred Newman and Bernard Berkowitz (first published in 1971, thank you Nora Ephron!)

-Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melodie Beattie (first published in 1986)

-Lying by Sam Harris

MEET SALLY VARDAMAN

Sally Vardaman is a writer who believes in the power of stories to make us think, question our assumptions, and connect with each other despite our differences. She is the author of Shoot the Arrows, a book of essays to her three children on why honesty and self-reflection are the keys to a healthy and meaningful life. You can find more about her work at http://sallyvardaman.com/. As well as on Facebook,Instagram, and Goodreads.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

How to help your child through exclusion without letting your own panic take over

I've been a parent on both sides of friendship exclusion. I've had kids who were left out, and I've had other parents upset with me. And I know how hard it can be to watch your child struggle socially without letting your own emotions take over. Sometimes our kids move on from a friendship disappointment long before we do!

My guest Andrea, founder of Strong Mom Strong Girl, knows what it's like when a child is deliberately pushed out of an established friend group. She now helps other mothers navigate these painful situations. Andrea and I make an important distinction between not being invited to everything (a normal part of life!) and being purposely dropped from a group. We also discuss why your child's friendship drama is not yours to "fix" in the way you might assume, even when it's affecting your own friendships, your sleep, and the atmosphere in your home.

Andrea reminds parents: "What you can do is show up as the best version of yourself so that your child can borrow your peace rather than pick up on your panic."

WE DISCUSS:

• Why having a friend group should NOT be the ultimate goal for our kids.
• The difference between ordinary disappointment, exclusion, and targeted mean behavior.
• Why Andrea advises against calling the other parents, even when you know them well.
• How our questions, facial expressions, and emotional reactions can make a difficult situation better or worse.

Andrea is sharing only her first name, and this episode is audio-only, to protect her family's privacy.

LINKS MENTIONED:

• Strong Mom Strong Girl on Instagram @strongmomstronggirl
• Dear Nina Episode 180: “Mean Mom Culture, Relational Aggression, and Belonging vs. Inclusion” with Dr. Noelle Santorelli.
• Katherine Martinko's article, "The Problem With Group Chats," which encourages delaying children's participation in group chats, not just delaying social media.
• The NPR/Ira Glass story: About middle schoolers using the comments on NPR's Instagram posts to communicate with one another, sometimes because they weren't allowed to use social media.
• A few more episode on teen friendships related to this episode: #65. Teen Friends Groups and Teen Friendship Strife: Dr. Lisa Damour & #152: When Your Child’s Friendship Issues Reopens Unresolved Wounds: Beth Segaloff

LEARN MORE ABOUT STRONG MOM STRONG GIRL

Andrea is the founder of Strong Mom Strong Girl, where she helps moms support their daughters through friendship drama, exclusion, and mean-girl behavior with more calm, confidence, and clarity. Everything she shares is based on actual lived experience and years of both research and trial-and-error. Follow her onInstagram, where you can find resources, actionable advice, community and more.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Are we too quick to decide a friendship isn’t working?

That’s the question running through this conversation with bestselling author and podcaster Melissa Radke. Melissa and I have both ended important friendships in ways we later regretted, and we spoke about what we wished we had done differently before deciding it was time to walk away. To quote Melissa, "Because a friendship can be hard without being wrong."

We got into the things that can make people want to run from a friendship: jealousy, uneven effort, changing life circumstances, fear of rejection, and seeing a close friend become close with someone else. Are those signs that a friendship is ending, or are they just normal parts of having long-term relationships with imperfect people?

We also talked about the friendship “tests” we give without telling the other person they’re being tested. Maybe you stop reaching out to see whether your friend will finally initiate. Maybe you say nothing about your birthday because you want to see if they remember. Instead of asking for what we need, we collect evidence.

Melissa and I discussed what can happen when we give our friends a little more room, say what’s actually bothering us, and let them respond before we decide we already know how they feel.

There are certainly friendships that need to end. But before we decide we’re done, it may be worth asking: Is this friendship truly wrong for me—or are we just going through something hard?

LINKS MENTIONED:

• Melissa's recent friendship piece on Substack.
• Episode #34 of Dear Nina about my own friendship breakup (that I regretted) "Reconnecting with an Ex-Friend"
• Episode #210 of Dear Nina with that same friend. "A softer to way to think about friendships that faded"
• Melissa's books
• Melissa on Instagram

MEET MELISSA RADKE:

Melissa Radke is a bestselling author, speaker, and media personality known for blending sharp humor with heartfelt honesty and Southern charm. She first gained national attention through her viral storytelling and memoir, Eat Cake. Be Brave., and is the author of Chicken-Fried Women: Friendship, Kinship, and the Women Who Made Us This Way, which celebrates the relationships that shape who we become.

Through her writing, speaking, and podcasts, Chicken-Fried Women and The Radke Show, Melissa explores faith, friendship, women’s empowerment, and the beautifully imperfect parts of everyday life, connecting with audiences through her relatable stories, wit, and authenticity.

Website | Instagram | Books | Podcast

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Dr. Miriam Kirmayer is back on Dear Nina, and this time we did something different: we each brought friendship questions the other person had not seen in advance.

No prep. No polished answers. Just two people who think about friendship constantly digging into the kinds of questions that rarely have a clean yes-or-no answer.

Dr. Miriam is a clinical psychologist and a well-known friendship researcher. She also now hosts the friendship podcast Two Peas on a Pod.

WE GET INTO:

• What to do when two friends are fighting and you’re stuck in the middle. Can you really stay neutral, and how do you avoid becoming the go-between?
• “Friendship flings.” Why do some friendships get intense very quickly and then cool off just as fast? And when is that simply normal versus part of a larger pattern?
• The eternal reciprocity problem. If you’re always the one reaching out, does that actually mean your friend cares less?
• When a friend is great one-on-one but treats you differently in a group. We talk about teasing, exclusion, mixed signals, and what Dr. Miriam calls an “ambivalent friendship.”
• Why making plans is more complicated than it sounds. Reaching out, comparing calendars, choosing the place, making the reservation—sometimes one person is carrying more of that invisible work than anyone realizes.

And finally, we turn the questions on ourselves: Does talking about friendship professionally make us self-conscious about our own friendships?

LINKS MENTIONED:

• Previous Dear Nina episode with Dr. Miriam: #109: "Quiet Quitting a Friendship"
• Two Peas on a Pod episodes about friendship breakups. Part one and Part two.

MEET DR. MIRIAM KIRMAYER:

Dr. Miriam Kirmayer is a clinical psychologist, leading friendship expert, and one of the most influential speakers on human connection and social support. See more about Dr. Miriam's courses, keynotes, articles and more at https://www.miriamkirmayer.com/. Listen to the podcast: Two Peas on a Pod. Find Dr. Miriam on Instagram on @miriamkirmayer.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

When good intentions aren’t enough in a friendship

What happens when you genuinely care about friends, but your behavior isn’t showing it?

That’s the question at the center of my conversation with writer and podcaster Laura Tremaine, author of The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needsand Share Your Stuff: I'll Go First. I’m bringing this episode back because Laura’s honesty about her own friendship missteps feels just as useful now as it did when we first recorded it.

Laura realized that she had been relying on the history, chemistry, and closeness she felt with certain friends without doing enough to maintain those relationships as work, family, and other responsibilities increased. She wasn’t always texting back. She wasn’t checking in. And eventually, several friends cared enough about the friendships to tell her that it hurt.

One of Laura’s biggest realizations was that there was a disconnect between what was in her heart and what her actions were communicating. She deeply valued these friends, but they couldn’t know that if she wasn’t showing it.

So Laura did something surprisingly practical: she started putting friendship on her actual to-do list.

WE DISCUSSED:

• Why friendship sometimes needs to be treated as something we intentionally maintain—not something that runs on autopilot
• The difference between making a friend a priority and making friendship feel like a chore
• What to do when “I’m busy” or “I’m overwhelmed” starts becoming an excuse for behavior that’s hurting people we care about
• Why responding to strangers online can sometimes feel easier than responding to the people closest to us (and why our friends might still take that personally)
• Paying attention to the particular ways our friends like to connect
• How our ideas about boundaries and self-care can work against the relationships we say are important to us

I especially love Laura’s emphasis on noticing—noticing what makes a particular friend feel cared for, noticing the patterns in our own behavior, and noticing when our intentions and our actions aren’t lining up.

And no, this episode isn’t an argument that you have to answer every text immediately or be endlessly available. It’s about something much more basic: If you want the friendship, are you behaving like you want the friendship?

LINKS MENTIONED:

Laura's books: The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needsand Share Your Stuff: I'll Go First.

MEET LAURA TREMAINE

Laura Tremaine is a writer and podcaster based in Los Angeles. She’s the author of two books about connection and friendship, is the co-host of the SLOW READ podcast, and she writes and hosts regular conversations on her Secret Stuff substack. You can usually find her on Instagram @Laura.Tremaine.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Dr. Marisa G. Franco is back on Dear Nina! This time we spoke about her new book, Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment, and how our sense of self-worth affects the friendships we build, keep, and sometimes struggle to trust.

Marisa’s first book, Platonic, focused on how we create and maintain strong friendships. Worth goes a step further inward: What happens when the way we see ourselves makes it harder to believe that other people genuinely like us, value us, or want to be close to us?

One of my favorite ideas from our conversation is Marisa’s argument that the goal isn’t to become perfectly secure. It’s to become secure-ish—aware of the anxious, avoidant, insecure parts of ourselves without pretending they’ve disappeared.

We discussed:

• How old friendship hurts can become “open memories” that continue to shape new relationships
• Why one painful rejection can make us expect rejection long after the original friendship is over
• How low self-worth can sometimes look like not initiating, pulling away, rejecting compliments, or needing constant reassurance
• When reassurance starts becoming exhausting for the friend who is constantly being asked to prove the friendship
• Why our assumptions about what friends think of us may say more about our own fears than about what’s actually happening

Marisa shares the story of Esme, who carried one devastating friendship moment from middle school into adulthood and became afraid to initiate with people she genuinely wanted to know. We expand on Esme's story to talk about reciprocity, rejection, memory, and the possibility of changing the meaning we’ve attached to experiences from years ago.

I also share one of my own “open memories” from college and what came up for me while working through one of Marisa’s exercises in the book.

And we get into something I talk about often on this show: sometimes a friend’s lack of initiation really does mean something—and sometimes it doesn’t. Self-worth, fear of rejection, disorganization, and all kinds of other factors can sit underneath behavior we’re very quick to take personally.

LINKS MENTIONED:

• Dr. Marisa G. Franco's previous episode on Dear Nina: "Telling Friends They've Let You Down"
• Buy Worth & Platonic
• Find Marisa on Instagram @drmarisagfranco

MEET DR. MARISA G FRANCO

An enlightening psychologist, international speaker, and New York Times bestselling author, Dr. Marisa G. Franco is known for digesting and communicating science in ways that resonate deeply enough with people to change their lives. She works as a professor at The University of Maryland and authored the New York Times bestseller Platonic: How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make—and Keep—Friends and Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment.

She writes about friendship for Psychology Today and has been a featured connection expert for major publications like The New York Times, The Telegraph, and Vice. She speaks on belonging at corporations, government agencies, non-profits, and universities. For tips on friendship, you can follow her on Instagram (DrMarisaGFranco), or go to her website, https://drmarisagfranco.com/, where you can take a quiz to assess your strengths and weaknesses as a friend & reach out for speaking engagements.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Why human connection requires friction, empathy, and accountability.

I have real concerns about AI, and one of my biggest is what happens when we start treating it like a person—especially a friend.

My guest, Sarah Baldeo, is a neuroscientist and the author of 100 Ways to Future Proof Your Brain in the Age of AI. She has spent more than 20 years working at the intersection of neuroscience and artificial intelligence, so I wanted to bring some of my biggest worries about AI and human connection directly to her and I appreciated her treating my concerns with seriousness and respect. My biggest takeaway remains the same: we need to be very careful not to confuse something that can imitate human connection with the real thing.

We discussed:

• What happens when we ask AI what to say to a grieving friend instead of working through our own empathy
• Why AI can feel like the “perfect friend”—always available, agreeable, and unlikely to make us uncomfortable
• Why real friendship requires disagreement, reciprocity, boredom, and sometimes friction
• The risks of outsourcing too much of our emotional and cognitive processing
• Why I’m especially concerned about teenagers growing up with generative AI
• How Sarah believes AI can actually be used to challenge our thinking rather than replace it
• My deep concern that we need to be very careful about confusing something that can imitate human connection with the real thing!

MEET SARAH BALDEO:

Sarah Baldeo, PhD (c), Executive MBA, is a bestselling author, neuroscientist, AI futurist, TED speaker, and CEO of ID Quotient Advisory, whose work explores how artificial intelligence is reshaping human cognition, executive judgment, and leadership decision making and what that means for how we connect, trust, and relate to one another; she is also the world’s foremost doctoral researcher on AI and cognition. She is the author of 100 Ways to Future-Proof Your Brain in the Age of AI, and has been featured on CBC News, CTV, NBC, SiriusXM, and Yahoo Finance. A global keynote speaker with more than 1,300 appearances across North America and Europe, Sarah advises organizations on the future of human intelligence in the age of AI. Connect with her on Instagram and LinkedIn.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

I’ve spoken before on Dear Nina about neurodiversity and friendship with several fantastic guests, but I wanted to have a conversation that could speak both to parents raising neurodivergent kids and to neurodivergent adults navigating friendship themselves.

Caroline Maguire is an internationally recognized expert in social-emotional learning, ADHD, coaching, and relationship development. She’s the author of Why Will No One Play With Me? and most recently, Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults.

We talked about encouraging friendship without forcing it, finding environments where connection comes more naturally, handling rejection, understanding the difference between an acquaintance and a friend, and taking those sometimes-awkward next steps that help a friendship grow.

What I especially loved about Caroline’s approach is that friendship skills aren’t about becoming someone else. They’re about understanding yourself, building confidence, and finding the people who appreciate you as you are.

LINKS & RESOURCES:

• Caroline's book: Why Will No One Play With Me? and Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults.
• Caroline on Instagram @authorcarolinem
• Episode #110. Neurodiversity and Friendships: Dr. James Richardson
• Episode #187: How ADHD Affects Adult Friendships--For People With ADHD and Their Friends: Cate Osborn and Erik Gude

MEET CAROLINE MAGUIRE:

Caroline Maguire, M.Ed., ACCG, PCC is an internationally recognized expert in social-emotional learning, ADHD coaching, and relationship development. She is the author of the award-winning book, Why Will No One Play with Me? and FRIENDSHIP SKILLS FOR NEURODIVERGENT ADULTS (Balance Books), and hosts The ADHD Social Playbook podcast. An educator, coach, and sought-after speaker, Caroline developed a comprehensive Social Emotional Learning (SEL) training methodology that equips parents, clinicians, and educators with practical tools to build self-awareness, emotional regulation, social understanding, and meaningful relationships. As a neurodivergent person with ADHD, dyslexia, and learning disabilities, she brings both professional expertise and lived experience to her work.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Harlan Cohen on friendship, social courage, and finding places where you belong.

Finding friendship—at any stage of life—requires the risk of hearing “no.” And that “no” rarely comes directly.

That’s one of the ideas I dig into with Harlan Cohen, a New York Times bestselling author and founder of Best First Year, a college success coaching program for students and parents. So much of what Harlan teaches incoming college students and their parents applies just as much in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond. This episode was so popular last year that I was waiting for the right time to play it again. The week I'm dropping off child #2 at college is the right time for sure!

If you’re starting over socially, hoping to expand your circle, or just tired of feeling bruised by the ups and downs of friendship, this one’s for you.

We get into:

• Why taking risks and hearing “no” are simply part of friendship at every age
• The difference between an expectation and a requirement in friendship
• What to do if you’re always the one initiating plans—a popular topic on Dear Nina, and Harlan’s answer was fantastic
• Harlan’s framework of "people, places, and patience"—and why we all need places where we’re accepted simply for showing up as ourselves, with no barrier to entry
• The story of Harlan’s first college roommate and the twist he didn’t learn until 30 years later

LINKS & RESOURCES:

• Harlan’s College Success Coaching Program Best First Year
• Harlan's episode with his freshman year roommate
• You will love Harlan on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube!

MEET HARLAN COHEN:

Harlan is the New York Times bestselling author ofThe Naked Roommate: And 107 Other Issues You Might Run Into In College and six other titles (over 1 million copies in print). His social media accounts have over 1.5 million followers and he hosts the popular podcast, The Harlan Cohen Podcast. He is the founder of Best First Year, a college success coaching program for students and parents. Harlan lives in Chicago, Illinois with his wife and three children.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Friend groups, exclusion, conflict, and the patterns we don’t always outgrow

Some friendship habits start much earlier than we realize. The way we react to being left out, how much security we get from being part of a group, whether we avoid conflict, and even how willing we are to be vulnerable with friends can all have roots in our teen years.

My guest Sheri Gazitt has spent more than 30 years working with teen girls and their parents. She’s the founder of Teen Wise and the author of Girl Drama Decoded: Empower Your Daughter Through The Ups & Downs of Girl Drama & Friendships. What struck me throughout our conversation is how easily the friendship issues she sees with teenagers translate to adult friendship.

We spoke about the difference between being deliberately excluded and simply not being invited, why being part of a friend group isn’t always the same thing as having close friendships, and what Sheri calls creating “parallel friendships” instead of putting all of our social energy into one group.

We also got very practical about conflict. Sheri shared a four-step approach to having a difficult conversation with a friend, including one step I especially appreciated: considering whether there’s any part of the situation you need to own yourself.

And we talk about what can happen after friendship disappointments pile up. Sometimes the way we protect ourselves is by keeping future friendships at a safe, superficial distance without even realizing we’re doing it.

This episode is useful whether you’re watching your own teenager navigate friendship or recognizing some very familiar patterns in your adult life. The good news is that these are skills—and we can keep getting better at them.

MEET SHERI GAZITT

Sheri Gazitt is an international friendship expert, speaker, and founder of Teen Wise. With over 30 years of experience and a background in counseling psychology, she’s helped thousands of girls navigate friendship struggles, social anxiety, and the emotional ups and downs of growing up. She’s the author of Girl Drama Decoded and supports moms through her Mom Wise Collective while also working directly with teen girls through private coaching. Coach Sheri is known for making complex social dynamics feel understandable and giving families practical ways to build confidence, connection, and healthier friendships. Find Sheri on Instagram @BeTeenWiseand on Facebook.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Alcohol is so woven into social life that choosing not to drink can change how you spend time with friends, which invitations come your way, and what you begin to notice about the way you connect.

My guest, Suzanne Waryeis the author of The Sober Shift: An Empowering Exploration of Sobriety, Parenting, and the Joys of Alcohol-Free Living and the host of the popular podcast The Sober Mom Life. Suzanne's decision to stop drinking was not a “rock bottom” story. She could drink moderately, but she hated how much mental energy alcohol took up in her life as well as the after effects. Once Suzanne stopped drinking, she had to figure out what friendship and socializing looked like without it.

In the episode Suzanne and I spoke honestly about the friendships that remained strong, the friendships that faded, and the hurt of being left off an invitation because someone assumes a sober friend would not want to come.

We also discussed learning to sit through the first awkward minutes of a gathering without numbing your anxiety and why Suzanne’s standards for connection changed once alcohol was no longer the main event. We briefly chatted about THC drinks and gummies, phone use as another form of escape, and motherhood and “mommy wine culture.” And we talked about what happens when you start wanting your time with friends to feel more present and less "numb."

Past episodes related to this one:

#17. Friendship and Sobriety: Jen Veralle

#130: The Sober Curious Lifestyle and Your Friendships: Hallie Sawyer

Meet Suzanne:

Suzanne Warye is a sobriety influencer and the host of the popular podcast The Sober Mom Life. Residing on the North Shore of Chicago with her husband and three kids, Suzanne spends most of her time reheating her coffee and rocking her “whole heart, half ass” parenting philosophy. Her new book THE SOBER SHIFT: A Modern-Day Guide to Living an Abundant Sober Life is currently available in hardcover, audio and e-book and the paperback will be available on Sept 29, 2026. To connect follow her on Instagram @suzannewarye or visit http://www.thesobermomlife.com/

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

I’m fresh off the "Dear Nina Live" event in Minneapolis to celebrate five years of the podcast. And after such a big week, I was ready to step away from my computer for a bit. So I said yes to mahjong (twice!), tennis, a walk, and time with friends. It was exactly the reset I was looking for, even though I'm WAY BEHIND on work now.

This short episode is a reminder to get out from behind the texts, emails, memes, and endless to-do list and spend some time with your friends in person. Say yes when you can, or make the plan yourself, and remember that even a walk or a cup of coffee counts. It can be that simple--short and sweet.

And to everyone who came to the event in Minnesota--THANK YOU!

LINKS MENTIONED:

• Here's a 30-second reel of the live event in Minneapolis to celebrate 5 years of the podcast.
• My spot on Twin Cities Live!

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

To mark five years of making this podcast, I invited the person who has heard every episode, encouraged every new idea, and occasionally reminded me to follow my own friendship advice. Welcome to my husband, Bryan!

Bryan hasn't been on Dear Nina since the first year! I brought him back to talk about what has surprised him after five years of listening to conversations about every aspect of friendship. He shared the theme he's been noticing beneath the friendship dilemmas: two people do not want the same type of friendship.

We also talk about one of the messages Bryan has heard me repeat the most: If you want to see a friend, reach out. Don’t sit back, keep score, or “match their energy.” That doesn’t mean giving everyone the same amount of time or continuing to chase people who never respond. Bryan puts it another way: Go where the heat is. Pay attention to the people who are glad to hear from you and who return your efforts in their own way.

We discuss:

• Why uneven desire is behind so many friendship questions that come my way
• Why Bryan believes “don’t wait” is some of the most useful advice from the show
• What to do instead of "matching someone else’s energy"
• Why electronic contact cannot fully replace phone calls and time together
• A past episode that changed how Bryan thinks about what we give to a friendship
• The friendship struggles I still have to work on myself!
• Why couple friendships work best when both partners help keep them going
• How Dear Nina grew from an advice column and listener letters into conversations with authors, researchers, therapists, and other friendship thinkers

A special thank-you to my brother-in-law, Dave Dluger, who helped me produce and edit the earliest Dear Nina episodes and convinced me I could learn how to make a podcast. And thank you to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs, who has become an essential part of nearly every podcast decision, guest conversation, and episode idea.

Listeners: Thank you for rooting for this show, sharing episodes with friends, sending your questions, and talking with me about friendship for so many years. This podcast would not be here without you!

Links mentioned:

• Episode #24: Maintaining Boundaries Without Damaging Your Friendships (with Bryan)
• Episode #37: The Benefits of Couple Friends (with Bryan)
• Episode #9. Friends Will Hang Out Without You: (with Taryn Kessel)
• Episode #73. I’m Just Not That Into This Friendship: (with Ruchi Koval)
• Episode #139: How to Start a Podcast

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Admissions counselor, Alexis White, on why 'fit over flex' should guide the college search

The college search puts a lot of pressure on families to find the “best” school. But the highest-ranked school (the hyper-focus for many) is not necessarily the place where a particular student will be happiest, most successful, or most likely to find their people.

My guest this week is Alexis White, an internationally recognized college admissions counselor, founder of A-List Tutoring Services and https://www.alexiscollegexpert.com/, and host of the podcast Admit It with Alexis White. I love following Alexis online because she is candid, practical, and willing to say what many families need to hear: Choosing a college should be about “fit over flex.”

Alexis walks me through the five factors she considers when helping a student build a college list: size, location, academic offerings, philosophy, and vibe. We talk about why those factors matter not only academically, but also for making friends, building community, and feeling at home.

We also get into Greek life, competitive clubs, audition-based activities, and the reality that getting into a college does not guarantee getting into every community within it. What happens when a student expects to join a sorority, fraternity, business club, theater group, or sports team, but it does not work out? Alexis explains why students need more than one possible path to friendship and belonging.

Alexis also offers an important reminder for parents: Grades and scores are only part of the picture. A student’s resilience, independence, willingness to try new things, and ability to handle discomfort may tell us just as much about where they will thrive. And because social media makes everyone else’s freshman year look effortless, we talk honestly about how awkward and difficult that first year can be, even at the “right” school.

This episode will help families look beyond acceptance rates, rankings and prestige during the college search process!

LINKS:

• Find Alexis on Instagram @collegexpert and TikTok @collegexpert!
• Previous episodes of Alexis's podcast I especially liked: "College Rankings Don't Matter," "Brainwashed Into Choosing Your College"
• Previous college admissions episode on Dear Nina: Episode #112, "Navigating Friendships During the College Admissions Process" with Kate Proger, #177: The Myth of Instant College Friends with Dr. Janice McCabe
• Harlan Cohen on Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship! Episde #143: "The Law of Rejection in Friendships",
• I brought up Gretchen Rubin several times in the episode, one of my favorite authors, podcasters, and thought leaders. Gretchen was my guest on episode #96.

Meet Alexis White:

Alexis White is a Los Angeles–based college admissions consultant and the founder of A-List Admissions and Tutoring and https://www.alexiscollegexpert.com/. Alexis has spent more than two decades guiding students and families through college selection, applications, essays, testing, and the many decisions that come with the admissions process. She has appeared as a college admissions expert on CBS, ABC News and elsewhere. Alexis is also the host of the podcast Admit It! with Alexis White and she gives admissions advice on social media to many thousands of followers on Instagram @collegexpert and TikTok @collegexpert.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

Group dynamics, feeling left out, and not waiting around for invitations

We have all felt that sting of not being invited. You see the pictures, hear about the dinner, find out there's a group chat, there was a weekend away—and you were not included. It can hurt, even when we know intellectually that every gathering cannot include every person. And even though we do not personally want 15 people at every thing we do.

This episode is a replay of a conversation I had with friendship educator Danielle Bayard Jackson, author of Fighting for Our Friendships: The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women’s Relationships and host of the Friend Forward podcast. Danielle has such a clear, honest way of talking about the harder parts of female friendship, and this topic needed her voice.

Danielle and I spoke about why not being invited can feel so personal, why it sometimes has nothing to do with us, and why some gatherings are built around a specific purpose, convenience, shared history, or a smaller dynamic.

We also get into the harder question: are there times when our own patterns make people less likely to include us? Maybe we often say no, cancel, talk about how busy we are, dominate the conversation, make people feel judged, stay glued to our phones, bring too much conflict into group settings, or make planning harder than it needs to be. This is not about blaming people for being left out. It's about giving ourselves choices beyond spiraling, assuming the worst, or waiting around to be chosen.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why being left out hurts at every age
• Why not every plan is meant to include every friend
• Friendship patterns that may be worth examining
• How to stop spiraling and start making plans yourself so you're not waiting for invitations
• My visit to Danielle's podcast, Friend Forward, "Picking Your People: Choosing the Right Friends to Prioritize and Pursue" Apple, Spotify

I'm SO grateful to Danielle for tackling this topic with me. It's a hard one—and she was exactly the right guest for it.

Meet Danielle Bayard Jackson

Danielle Bayard Jackson is a friendship educator, speaker, and author of Fighting for Our Friendships: The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women’s Relationships. She is the host of the Friend Forward podcast, the founder of Tell Public Relations, and the director of the Women’s Relational Health Institute, where she conducts research and creates training to support stronger female relationships. Find links for working with Danielle and all of her social media links at betterfemalefriendships.com.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

How age, loss, and experience can change the way we see friendships from the past

This week I’m joined by one of my very best friends, Rebecca Kotok, a public school counselor in Maryland and one of the most popular guests in the history of Dear Nina.

Rebecca was first on the show in episode 34, where we talked about our friendship breakup in our 20s and our reconciliation. This time, we’re talking about a different kind of friendship shift: the way approaching 50, loss, and life experiences can soften how we think about friendships that faded, old hurts, and the stories we’ve been carrying for years.

This episode is not about ignoring bad behavior or letting every person back into your life. But Rebecca and I talk about the peace that can come from no longer needing to prosecute every old friendship case in your mind over and over again until the end of time.

We talked about:

• Why friendship breakups and faded friendships can carry so much shame

• How midlife can change the way we understand old friendship disappointments

• Why some friendships fade without anyone being "the villain"

• The difference between being right and being at peace

• How grief and life experience can make us more generous toward other people

• Why you don’t have to reconnect with someone to think about them more positively

• How gratitude, reflection, and therapy can help if a softer, more positive mindset does not come naturally

One of my favorite ideas from Rebecca was that she now attributes perceived slights much less to someone’s character and much more to what that person may have been carrying. That feels like a wiser and "softer" way to move through the world.

Previous episodes mentioned:

• Episode #34: The breakup and reconciliation (with Rebecca Kotok)
• Episode #125: The 10% Rule in Friendship and the Negativity Bias (with Ann Imig)

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

My friend, Jill Smokler, touched so many lives. If you loved Jill, I hope hearing her voice is a comfort. If you didn’t know her, I hope this episode gives you a glimpse of why countless longtime followers, fans, and friends felt deeply connected to her candor and warmth.

This bonus episode of Dear Nina is a replay of a conversation Jill asked me to record with her in the summer of 2024, soon after she was diagnosed with glioblastoma, an aggressive form of brain cancer. Jill died on June 22, 2026, and I’m sharing this conversation again around what would have been her 49th birthday.

Jill was a certain kind of famous—not movie-star famous, but very known in a way that mattered. Her work and her support of so many writers and readers helped women feel less alone starting with her groundbreaking blog, Scary Mommy. She continued in that supportive role after she sold Scary Mommy and publicly figured out her next move, which included her podcast and online magazine, She's Got Issues, which gave an honest voice to midlife.

I knew Jill first from Washington University in St. Louis, where we met as freshmen, but our friendship and professional relationship grew much more in adulthood. We collaborated in our work over the years, and I credit Jill with helping me understand what writing on the internet could be.

Jill was proud of this conversation we had two years ago. You will hear her humor, her honesty, and her way of making room for the awful and the absurd at the same time. Jill spoke frankly about her diagnosis and what it felt like to receive an outpouring of love from people who knew her in every era of her life: childhood, college, parenting, work, and of course from her massive online community.

We also discussed what friendship looks like in a crisis: what helped, what didn’t, and what she wished people understood. Jill was especially clear about the value of brief, consistent check-ins with no expectation of a reply and the practical relief of meals and DoorDash gift cards.

Jill also reflected on her children, her best friend, the friendships she built over a lifetime, and the future she felt robbed of getting to enjoy. It's a heartbreaking, funny, blunt, generous, and "pure Jill" episode.

Thank you for listening, and for helping me honor Jill.

Links mentioned:

• Jill's official obituary where you can leave comments for her family to read.
• The June 23rd, 2026 NYT piece about Jill (gift link)
• The today.com piece I mentioned in 2024 about Jill's diagnosis and the rise of Scary Mommy
• Jill's books: Confessions of a Scary Mommy, Motherhood Comes Naturally and Other Lies, and Scary Mommy's Guide to Surviving the Holidays
• My visits on She's Got Issues mentioned in this episode: "Friendship-- Mistakes & Hard Lessons Learned" and "Friendship Breakups: Accepting When a Friendship is Over"
• Jill's previous visit to Dear Nina: "Old School Blogging Friendships"
• Kate Bowler's book, No Cure For Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear)

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!

How small talk, "loose ties," and everyday conversations help us feel more connected

For episode #200 of Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship, I’m joined by Dr. Gillian Sandstrom, an associate professor in the Psychology of Kindness at the University of Sussex and author of Once Upon a Stranger: The Science of How Small Talk Can Add Up to a Big Life.

I came into this conversation a little wary. Do I really want to talk to more strangers? On airplanes? At Trader Joe’s? When I’m trying to get through my errands and keep moving? But Gillian’s research—and her very practical way of talking about it—made a strong case for why these small, low-stakes interactions matter.

This episode is not about forcing every stranger into a future friendship. It’s about remembering that every friend was once a stranger, and that talking to people we don’t know gives us practice with the exact skills good friendships require: handling uncertainty, risking rejection, asking better questions, listening, ending conversations kindly, and staying open to other people.

Gillian also explains why small talk is not as pointless as it can seem, why people usually like us more than we think they do, and why even brief moments of connection can change the way we move through the world.

WE TALKED ABOUT:

• Why talking to strangers is connected to making and keeping friends

• The “liking gap” and why we often underestimate how much people enjoyed talking to us

• How strangers can be lower-stakes practice for friendship skills

• Why small talk can feel awkward, boring, or inefficient—and why it still matters

• Gillian’s “QUICK” method for starting conversations: questions, in common, and kindness

• How to politely end a conversation without pretending you need to take a call

• The difference between strangers, acquaintances, weak ties, loose ties, and “fringe-ships”

• Why we sometimes disclose more easily to strangers than to close friends

• The awkwardness of reaching out to an old friend who now feels like a stranger

• Why talking to strangers can make the world feel safer, warmer, and more human

One idea from Gillian I especially loved: not every interaction has to be transformative to be worthwhile. Like movies, not every conversation will be "amazing." Some will be forgettable and will be average, but over time, these small moments add up to something meaningful. In a world that often feels increasingly impersonal and distracted, I found that idea pretty convincing.

Meet Dr. Gillian Sandstrom:

Gillian Sandstrom is an associate professor in the psychology of kindness at the University of Sussex and author of Once Upon a Stranger: The Science of How 'Small' Talk Can Add Up To a Big Life. Her research has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and The Atlantic, and has been covered by other outlets around the world. She has been interviewed for major podcasts and radio shows, including Hidden Brain, NPR's Life Kit, and Claudia Hammond's All in the Mind. She lives in Brighton, England. Find her on LinkedIn and Instagram.

ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO

!! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify

📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina

🔎 Information on any upcoming "Dear Nina Live" events

🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes!

📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack

❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group

📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question

📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com

🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

Special thank you, as always, to my assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs!