Elk Hunt

What’s up everyone! This week I’ve got my buddy Sidney Smith back on the podcast, and dude, this guy is one of the most inspiring humans I know. Sidney was one of the earliest supporters of this show. He had one of my first podcast stickers slapped on his prosthetic back around 2015, when he still had one leg and a Forrest Gump brace on the other. Now he’s a double amputee who has done marathons, an Ironman, a bodybuilding competition, and this year he swam from San Francisco around Alcatraz Island and back. No swim prosthetics, just his stumps, 50-degree water, brutal currents, and a shark caught by a fisherman right next to his boat (which, thankfully, nobody told him about until after).

Sidney lost his legs to Charcot-Marie-Tooth, a progressive genetic disease that’s now creeping into his hands. That’s a big part of why he decided not to turn back his once-in-a-lifetime Boulder, Utah archery elk tag this year, even though he drew it while squeezing pus out of an infected limb on a bear hunt in the Bob Marshall. His thinking was that if he couldn’t get it done this year, it was only going to get harder.

And man, this hunt story is one of the wildest I’ve heard. Weeks of sitting water in 95-degree heat, a miss on a 360-class bull, then the second-to-last day he stumbles into a bedded herd, calls in a giant five-point with what he calls the sweetest lip bawl of his life, and shoots him at 18 yards. But a branch he never saw deflects the bolt. What follows is 2,200 yards of blood trailing, a sleepless night of negotiating with God, crawling a meadow on his hands and knees, and jumping the bull again with no shot. Just when Sidney’s ready to throw in the towel, a random Great Pyrenees sheepdog wanders up while he’s taking a leak, becomes his hunting buddy, and points him straight to the bull. You can’t make this stuff up.

We also dig into Misogi, the idea of picking one hard thing every year with a 50/50 chance of failing, and why doing hard things on purpose prepares you for when hard things choose you. Sidney talks about faith, gratitude, and his buddy Red, who lost a knee to infection right before this hunt and still kept texting Sidney encouragement on his inReach.

If you need a reminder that your excuses are smaller than you think, or you just want to hear one of the best elk recovery stories ever, this episode is for you.

Sponsors

onX Hunt - I use onX for way more than mapping. It’s my planning tool, my e-scouting tool, and everything in between. Now they’ve added onX SOS, an emergency rescue add-on that connects you directly to Overwatch Rescue for 24/7 crisis response. My phone works almost everywhere these days, so having that insurance right inside my onX account means I carry an inReach a lot less. Check it out at https://www.onxmaps.com and use code TRO to save 20% on an Elite membership.

Maven Optics - Love the Maven guys and love their products. They’re a direct-to-consumer optics company out of Wyoming, and I always say they’re the best bang for your buck in optics. From rifle scopes to spotting scopes to binos, I run Maven across the board. The B6 is my go-to bino. I run the 12x50, but the 10x42 is amazing too. Head to https://www.mavenbuilt.com and use code TRO for a special gift at checkout.

Bridger Watch - Bridger is the smartwatch I wish existed, so we built it. We’ve been developing it for three years. It does all the health, sleep, and fitness tracking you’d expect, plus features built for hunters: offline mapping, onX waypoint integration so you can send waypoints straight to your watch, ballistics integration with Hornady or Sierra, a red-light-only Redshift mode that protects your night vision, and a built-in flashlight. Built by hunters for hunters. Check out the Reckon at https://www.bridgerwatch.com and use code TRO.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro and sponsors
03:30 - Re-recording the best podcast in years
04:45 - 10 years of friendship and the original TRO sticker
06:15 - Charcot-Marie-Tooth and losing both legs
08:30 - Becoming an athlete after amputation
10:00 - What Misogi is and why you need one
11:45 - Swimming around Alcatraz with no legs
15:30 - Fighting the current: swimming on a treadmill
18:30 - Cold water, wetsuits, and could anyone escape Alcatraz?
21:00 - How to choose your own Misogi
24:30 - Learning to bugle on drives to the prosthetist
27:00 - Drawing the Boulder tag in the middle of an infection
30:00 - Early-season archery: water sets and tree saddles
32:30 - Missing a 360-class bull
34:30 - The last week: going higher and hunting alone
36:30 - Walking into a bedded herd at 20 yards
39:00 - The giant five-point and the perfect lip bawl
41:00 - An 18-yard shot and a branch that changed everything
43:30 - 2,200 yards of blood trailing
46:00 - Jumping the bull with no shot
49:00 - The sheepdog that found the elk
53:00 - Lessons on prayer, gratitude, and his buddy Red
57:00 - Sidney’s speaking, DO Utah, and how to help
1:00:30 - Wrap up

Three Key Takeaways

• Choose Hard Things So You’re Ready When Hard Things Choose You - Sidney’s Misogi practice means picking one big challenge each year with roughly a 50/50 chance of failure, whether that’s an Ironman, a bodybuilding show, or an Alcatraz swim. It doesn’t have to be physical. It could be mental, spiritual, or a weight loss goal, but it has to scare you. His advice: start planning next year’s Misogi while you’re still training for this year’s, or you’ll slide into a comfort lull.
• Never Quit on a Blood Trail - Sidney tracked his bull 2,200 yards, came back at first light, crawled a meadow on his hands and knees, and kept gridding even after he’d mentally written the bull off. He also learned that a quartering or obstructed shot is worth passing. He turned down a Texas heart shot early on, but missed a small branch in the excitement of the moment. When you’re on a wounded animal, give it everything before you even think about another one, and when you lose the trail, go back to where you last had sign and grid from there instead of guessing.
• Gratitude Is the Antidote to the Lowest Lows - In the middle of feeling sorry for himself, Sidney kept thinking about his buddy Red, a fellow double amputee who had just lost a knee to infection and was still sending him “you’ve got this” messages. Elk hunting will break you down, and when it does, remember what you still have: your hands, your eyes, your friends, and the chance to be out there at all.

Eight years ago, Jack Lander and I did a podcast right after he killed a bull with his compound. This time he's back after another absolutely nuts season with a longbow and a recurve in the thick Roosevelt country of the Pacific Northwest. If you've heard that this was a rough year to find elk, Jack's crew still managed to put four bulls on the ground, and some of those were at seven yards.

We start with why Jack walked away from the compound. He says it comes down to the challenge, and he found that nothing beats a trad kill when it all comes together. From there we get into what makes Roosevelt hunting so different from Rockies and sagebrush country. Think 18 yards without ever seeing the elk, tunnels you have to crawl through like a rabbit, and bulls that will actually come to a terrible little squeal after they've pegged you.

Then Jack walks me through his season. He and his buddy Sam killed two bulls in the same day, an hour apart, and I can't name another person I know who's done that. We also dig into hunting pressure and the road-rig bugle circus, why cow and calf calling into good habitat might be the move, and how finding a canyon with a hot cow can change everything. Jack also tells the story of the time he lost Larry D. Jones in the woods (search and rescue included). We wrap with a last-day-of-season bull that died in 13 seconds on camera.

Whether you chase Roosevelts, Rockies, or just want to understand how to hunt pressured elk, there's a lot to take away here.

Go subscribe to Jack's YouTube channel, Golden Rosie Outdoors. And if you want a free hunt planning tool to track your hunts, plans, and points, grab it through the link in the show notes or at elkhunt201.com. If you liked the episode, send it to one of your hunting buddies.

Sponsors

Tricer – Lightweight, packable gear built for guys who actually put miles on it. If your tripod system is bulky and overbuilt, you're working too hard. Drew is a good friend and a mad scientist, and the whole system is worth a look.
🔗 http://tricer.com – use code EH for 10% off

Maven Optics – A Wyoming, direct-to-consumer company that I'll always say is the best bang for your buck. From rifle scopes to spotters to binos, I love their stuff. The B6 is my go-to binocular. I run the 12x50, and the 10x42 is awesome too.
🔗 https://mavenbuilt.com

Bridger Watch – The smartwatch I've spent the last three years developing, built by hunters for hunters. Health, sleep, and fitness tracking, plus offline mapping, onX Waypoint integration, Hornady and Sierra ballistics integration, Red Shift night-vision-friendly red light, and a flashlight. Check out the Bridger Rekon.
🔗 https://bridgerwatch.com

Chapters (estimated)

• 0:00 – Intro and sponsors
• 2:15 – Welcome, Jack
• 4:00 – Why Jack switched from compound to traditional
• 7:00 – What makes Roosevelt elk hunting different
• 12:00 – Season goals and a repeat of last year's success
• 14:30 – Two bulls in one day: Sam's bull and Jack's seven-yard bull
• 18:30 – Hunting pressure, road rigs, and cow/calf calling
• 24:00 – Hot cows, rut timing, and Bigfoot bulls
• 29:00 – The story of losing Larry D. Jones in the woods
• 33:30 – Mid-roll: Bridger Watch
• 35:00 – The smart old six-point and Brendan's bull
• 38:00 – Last day of season: Mason's bull on camera
• 43:00 – Covering ground, timing, and locating hot bulls
• 47:00 – How many days to kill a Roosevelt, and the role of luck
• 49:30 – Where to find Jack's films and wrap-up

Three Key Takeaways

• When bulls go quiet, slip in and cow call. In pressured country, Jack and Cody both found that quiet cow and calf calling in good habitat can pull in bulls that won't answer a bugle. Plenty of bulls came in silent and never said a word.
• Timing and a hot cow matter more than the canyon. A canyon can be dead for two weeks and then have four bulls screaming when a cow comes into estrus. Moving around and covering country until you find the hot pocket is the real game.
• Skill gets you in position, but luck closes the deal. Jack figures about 10 days of hunting gives you a shot opportunity. Wind, cows, and brush all have to line up, so you need to hunt hard, stay patient, and be ready to capitalize on the one chance you get.

Man, this one's a good one. Cliff Gray's back on the show — if you remember, Cliff and I try to link up around this time every year, and it's turning into a bit of a tradition. This time we're diving deep into what he's picked up from running his Elk Hunting Masterclass this season — 35, 40 guys through scenario-based training — and honestly, some of the patterns he's seeing are gonna hit home for a lot of you.

We get into why indecision kills more hunts than bad luck does, how to actually recognize when you're sitting in a 0% probability situation (and why guys freeze up instead of doing something about it), and the exact playbook for what to do when a bull hangs up and starts barking at you. Cliff breaks down solo tactics for getting a bull raking and using that window to close the distance, why he's skeptical on rattling but won't rule it out, and a mountain goat stalk story of mine that gets into precision at distance versus just "getting close enough."

We also talk about why knowing the exact location of a bedded animal is one of the biggest differentiators between guys who close the deal and guys who don't, the "it's always right where you left it" mindset, why playing peekaboo on a stalk will get you busted every time, and the psychology behind why we all feel the urge to rush a shot the second an opportunity shows up — even when patience would serve us better.

Cliff and I also get into the whole calf-calling-only debate that's been floating around elk hunting circles, and why having a system beats bouncing between tactics every single sit.

If you've ever wanted to sit in on one of Cliff's in-person scenario trainings, he tells you exactly how to find it. Grab a coffee, this one's packed.

Sponsors

onX Hunt
This episode is brought to you by onX Hunt — check out their new Share feature in the Go Track section of the app. You can now share your live location with your hunting buddy right on the map (when you've got service), which is a huge upgrade for staying coordinated in the field.
http://onxmaps.com/

Maven Optics
Also brought to you by Maven Optics — a direct-to-consumer optics company out of Wyoming making binos, rangefinders, and rifle scopes. Great glass, great price point, because you're skipping the big-box markup.
http://mavenbuilt.com — use code TRO at checkout for a special gift.

Chapter Timestamps (estimated from content pacing across the 56-minute episode)

Time Chapter 0:00 Intro — Welcome to the Elk Hunt Podcast 0:30 Sponsor: onX Hunt's new Share feature 2:00 Sponsor: Maven Optics 3:30 Welcoming Cliff Gray back to the show 5:00 What Cliff's learned coaching 35-40 students this year 8:00 Indecision and the 0% probability trap 12:00 The "bull hangs up and barks" scenario, breaking it down 18:00 Solo tactics — getting a bull raking and closing distance 23:00 Does rattling actually work? 27:00 Biggest rifle-hunting mistakes: knowing exactly where the animal is 33:00 Trusting your mark — "it's always right where you left it" 37:00 The peekaboo mistake on a stalk 40:00 Precision at distance — the mountain goat stalk story 45:00 Fighting the urge to rush a shot 49:00 Building a consistent system vs. jumping tactics 52:00 The calf-calling-only debate 55:00 Cliff's Elk Hunting Masterclass and how to sign up

Three Key Takeaways

• Indecision is the silent killer. When a hunter is stuck between a low-probability option and doing nothing, doing nothing is almost always the worse choice — a 10-15% chance beats a guaranteed 0%.
• Know exactly where the animal is before you commit to a stalk. Vague landmarks ("that big stump") fail in the field — pick a precise, trackable reference point, and trust that the animal is still there even when things go quiet.
• The urge to rush a shot is often just your body wanting the stress to be over — not a real signal that time is up. Learning to distinguish genuine time-sensitive moments from manufactured urgency leads to better decisions and better shots.

I sat down with Jaden Bales this week for one of those conversations that starts as a catch-up and turns into a full-on masterclass — and I didn't even plan it that way. It's been way too long since Jaden and I recorded together (we live in the same town, so we keep telling ourselves we don't need a podcast to catch up — turns out we do).

Jaden's got a trail camera bull he's chasing this fall — a mid-July photo puts him around 340", with room to grow into the 350 range by September — and he wanted to pick my brain on how to actually turn this thing up before archery season opens. So that's exactly what we did.

We get into the real difference between hunting a "201-level" six-point and hunting a genuine target bull — because trust me, those are two completely different games. We talk about why elk don't respect your neat little three-mile circle on OnX, why a good bull might blow off his summer ground and go rut ten miles away, and why "air miles" is the only way to actually think about elk movement in big mountain country. We also get into backpack-hunt logistics, meat care in the backcountry, why purple roads and hiking trails matter less than you think (until they don't), and the mental shift it takes to go from "find one bull" to "learn four different herds at once."

If you've got a shooter on camera right now and you're trying to figure out your game plan for opening week, this episode is basically a free coaching session. Grab a coffee and get ready to think differently about how elk actually use the mountain.

This Episode's Sponsors

Tricer
This episode is brought to you by the good folks over at Tricer. I always want to call them Tricer Tripods, but they make a lot more than tripods — the RP Bipod is one of my favorite pieces of gear I own. At 10.5 ounces it's stupid lightweight, it comes with long legs and short legs, and it works on both Picatinny and ARCA. All that for $350 is a no-brainer. I've shot a lot of critters off this thing.

Check it out at https://tricer.com and use code TRO to save 10% off.

Maven Optics
This episode is also brought to you by Maven Optics — a direct-to-consumer optics company out of Wyoming that I've been running for years. The comment I get every single time someone picks up a pair is, "Oh man, these are actually really good." Yeah — I told you. From binos to rangefinders to rifle scopes, Maven is hands-down the best bang for your buck in the optics world, because cutting out the big box store markup means better glass for less money.

Check them out at https://mavenbuilt.com/ and use code TRO at checkout for a special gift.

Chapters

Timestamp Segment 0:00 Intro — Welcome to the Elk Hunt Podcast 1:15 Sponsor: Tricer RP Bipod 2:45 Sponsor: Maven Optics 4:00 Catching up with Jordan Bales — wedding recap 6:30 First elk hunt four weeks out — this year's scouting mission 8:15 The trail camera bull — first photos and initial score estimate 11:00 Piecing together bull location vs. known cow herds 14:30 Why elk wander farther than most hunters assume 18:00 201 vs. 301 hunting: chasing a six-point vs. chasing a target bull 23:00 Why it takes a team to hunt one specific giant bull 27:30 Thinking in "air miles" instead of trail miles 31:00 Bachelor herds, rut timing, and reading bull behavior in late August 35:00 Strategy: kid gloves vs. hard-charging a target bull 39:00 Backcountry logistics — backpack hunting, horses, and pulling meat 43:00 Meat care and temperature management in the backcountry 46:00 Recreational hiker traffic — does it actually affect elk? 48:30 Roly-poly country vs. big mountain drainages — which makes you a better elk hunter 51:30 Hunt West coaching — booking a consult with Jordan 53:00 Outro — free hunt planner and show links

(Note: these timestamps are estimated proportionally based on conversation flow within the 50-minute runtime — swap in your actual DAW/editing timestamps before publishing.)

Three Key Takeaways

• Think in air miles, not trail miles. The mental trap most hunters fall into is measuring distance the way a human experiences it — on foot, along trails. Elk cover ground on a completely different scale. A bull that seems "close" to a herd on the map might actually be far enough that he's already moved on to check her and bounce. Recalibrating your sense of distance is one of the biggest jumps from intermediate to advanced elk hunting.
• Targeting one specific bull requires understanding every herd around him, not just his. The moment you commit to "301-level" hunting — chasing one specific animal instead of just filling a tag — the job changes from finding an elk to mapping an entire drainage system: every bachelor group, every cow herd, every likely wind-and-terrain funnel within a few miles. It's genuinely harder and less fun than general elk hunting, which is exactly why it usually takes a team.
• Patience beats pressure with a known target bull. The instinct to hike straight into a bull's last known location and start calling is usually the fastest way to lose him for the season. Watching from a distance, learning what the herd is doing morning and evening, and staying in "kid glove" mode until you actually have eyes on him gives you a far better shot than blowing him out of the country on day one.

Alright guys, this one is mind-blowing. I know Mark Livesay is talented — you all know him from Treeline Academy, the best e-scouting course on the planet — but I was not ready for what he showed me on this episode. Mark's been locked in a cave for six months building something called Hunt Research IQ, and he brought it to the Elk Hunt Podcast for the very first reveal. First show. Nobody's seen this yet.

This isn't a draw odds app. This isn't a spreadsheet. This is 20 years of harvest data for elk and deer across 11 Western states, run through AI, and turned into heat maps, custom scoring sliders, unit comparisons, moisture tracking, remote-core calculations, and print-ready reports that make every other research platform out there look like it's stuck in 2005.

We get into how the scoring system works, why averaging three, five, and twenty years of data matters more than looking at last year's numbers, why Montana's fractional bonus points might be sabotaging your odds without you even knowing it, and how Mark's moisture-tracking tool is already changing how he plans hunts around drought years and burns.

Then we shift gears and talk burns, same-year fire strategy, moisture-driven elevation shifts during the rut, and Mark's own busted rotator cuffs — which means he might be strapping a crossbow to a llama this September. You don't want to miss this one.

Take a listen, then go dig into Hunt Research IQ yourself. Links below, and use code TRO for a discount from our guy Mark.

Brought to You By

onX Hunt

This episode is brought to you by onX Hunt. If you've been through our free four-hour e-scouting course over at elkhunt201.com, you know I preach building color-coded waypoints, markups, and tracks for every hunt. Building a folder, building a plan — that's the difference between showing up and figuring it out versus showing up ready. This is what onX is superior at: hunt planning. If you're not an Elite member yet, Elite has a ton of tools to help you plan better.

http://onxmaps.com/

Use code TRO when you upgrade to Elite for a special discount.

Maven Optics

This episode is also brought to you by the good folks over at Maven Optics. Direct-to-consumer optics company right out of Wyoming, and I've been using them for years. My favorite thing is watching people get their hands on a Maven for the first time and go, "Oh man, these are actually really good." Yeah — I told you. From binos to rangefinders to rifle scopes, Maven is the best bang for your buck out there, because you're not paying the big box store markup.

https://mavenbuilt.com/

Use code TRO at checkout for a special gift.

Chapters

Time Segment 0:00 Intro & sponsor reads (onX Hunt, Maven Optics) 4:30 Welcome Mark Livesay — the big reveal, first show, six months in build mode 8:15 Elevator pitch: what is Hunt Research IQ? 12:00 Why averaging 3/5/20-year data beats single-year snapshots 17:30 Building custom scoring sliders and unit health trends 23:00 The heat map: dragging, hovering, live data pulls 28:45 Comparing units side by side & the "unit profile card" 34:15 Rankings tab, health trend colors, and finding sleeper units 40:00 101 / 201 / 301 hunter framework — what stats matter at each level 47:00 Print reports, unit briefs, and AI-written unit descriptions 53:30 Montana's fractional bonus point trap explained 58:00 Remote core, road density, and what "remote" really means 1:03:00 Bull-per-square-mile harvest density and reading hunting pressure 1:09:00 Moisture tracking tool & elevation focus bands 1:14:00 Hunt planning suite, checklist tool, and hike time calculator 1:18:30 Talking burns: mosaic vs. straight-edge fire boundaries 1:24:00 Live demo — analyzing a current Utah fire for same-year burn potential 1:29:00 Mark's Island Park story: why elk drop elevation in dry years 1:34:00 Rut timing shifting later into September 1:37:00 Mark's rotator cuff injury, crossbow talk, and this year's hunt plan 1:39:30 Pricing, free trial, and where to find Hunt Research IQ 1:40:30 Outro & free hunt planner

(Timestamps are approximate — built from transcript flow, adjust to actual audio if needed.)

Three Key Takeaways

• Averaging beats snapshots. A single year of harvest data can be wildly skewed by a low tag allocation or a random survey year. Looking at 3-year, 5-year, and all-time averages side by side — and watching whether a unit's score is trending up or down — tells you far more than last year's numbers alone.
• In Montana, buying a bonus point can hurt you. Mark's tool surfaced something almost nobody talks about: hunters with zero points had roughly a 53% draw chance in some units, while hunters with a single fractional point dropped to 0%, because a set percentage of tags are reserved specifically for zero-point applicants. Understanding your state's fractional point system can change your entire application strategy.
• "Go high" isn't a universal rule — moisture matters more. The common advice to push to the highest elevation in September doesn't always hold. In dry years, the grass at the top dies off first, and cows follow the moisture downhill toward better feed. Tracking soil moisture data for a basin can tell you more about where elk will actually be than elevation alone.

Alright guys, today's episode is a good one. I'm sitting down with Kevin Gower — a Colorado public land guy who's been in the elk woods since he was 12 years old and has packed out more elk than the years he's been hunting. That's 22 elk in 23 seasons. Not luck. Not private land. Public dirt, over the counter, doing it the hard way.

We get into it — why most guys aren't consistent on public land, the "cover ground" era of learning to elk hunt, and why the YouTube backpack-hunting romance can actually work against you when you're trying to learn a mountain. We talk mindset — the "today's the day" mantra, why you can't write the story before the hunt is over, and why the guys who stack hard experiences early end up with the confidence to go get it done later.

Kevin also walks through his biggest bull — a solo four-mile pack out in thirteen inches of fresh snow — and why moments like that are what separate hunters who quit from hunters who figure it out. We dig into silent bulls and why they're some of the most killable elk in the woods, calling strategy, reading pressure on the edge of private land, when to leave elk to go find better elk, and why learning to hunt the storm front instead of fighting the wind might be one of the most underrated skills in elk hunting.

This one's packed with real public land wisdom from a guy who's put in two decades on the same mountain. Grab a notebook, this is a good one.

Sponsors

onX Hunt

Today's episode is brought to you by onX Hunt. If you haven't checked out our free 4-hour e-scouting course yet, go grab it at elkhunt201.com — it's completely free. Building a color-coded system of waypoints, markups, and tracks for your hunt is one of the most important things you can do before season. Too many guys draw a tag and just show up to figure it out — don't be that guy. If you're not an Elite member yet, Elite unlocks a ton of extra planning tools that'll make your prep this fall way more dialed in.

http://onxmaps.com/ Use code TRO when you upgrade to Elite.

Bridger Watch

This episode is also brought to you by Bridger Watch — a smartwatch built specifically for hunting. All your normal smartwatch features (health tracking, fitness tracking, texts) plus, in my opinion, the best mapping capability of any wearable on the market. You can save offline maps, ship them straight to your watch, and pan around right on your wrist with a screen that's genuinely impressive for its size. Bridger Watch also integrates directly with onX — share a whole hunt folder or a single waypoint from the field straight to your watch, so if your phone dies or you lose it, you've always got a backup.

http://bridgerwatch.com/

Timestamped Chapters

(Approximate — based on episode flow, total runtime ~1:02:00)

• 00:00 – Intro / onX Hunt: free e-scouting course & building a hunt plan
• 02:15 – Bridger Watch: mapping-focused hunting smartwatch & onX integration
• 04:00 – Welcome Kevin Gower — gearing up for elk season
• 06:00 – Kevin's background: 22 elk in 23 seasons on public land in Colorado
• 08:15 – What most hunters get wrong: sitting in the same meadow vs. covering ground
• 11:30 – The YouTube generation, backpack hunting romanticism, and today's pressure
• 14:30 – Blocking out other hunters without losing your own game plan
• 17:15 – Mindset: "today's the day" and staying positive in the field
• 19:30 – Don't write the story before the hunt is over
• 22:30 – Early lessons learned solo, the 90/10 rule, and being more aggressive
• 25:30 – Kevin's biggest bull: solo 4-mile pack out in 13 inches of snow
• 29:30 – Stacking hard experiences to build confidence over time
• 33:00 – Pushing limits early — lessons for newer hunters
• 36:15 – Hunting a brand new unit for the first time this season
• 39:00 – E-scouting: finding elk vs. figuring out where people will be
• 43:00 – Staying balanced as a hunter & always having backup plans
• 46:30 – E-scouting and boots-on-the-ground as separate, underrated skills
• 49:15 – Recognizing elk in the field — don't walk past what's right in front of you
• 51:30 – Silent bulls: why quiet elk are often the most killable
• 55:00 – Calling strategy, patience, and reading stick breaks/non-verbal cues
• 58:15 – Reading pressure on private edges & when to leave elk to find elk
• 1:00:30 – Hunting the storm front instead of fighting bad wind
• 1:02:00 – Wrap-up, why you hunt, and closing advice for the season

3 Key Takeaways

• Don't write the story before the hunt is over. It's easy to mentally give up on a season five days in when things aren't going your way. Both Kevin and the host agree — stay in the present, trust your prep, and don't decide the outcome before you've actually run out of time.
• Silent bulls are still killable bulls. Pressured public land elk often won't respond to calls, but that doesn't mean they're unhuntable. Learning to locate, approach, and call elk in silently — without over-relying on a bugle response — opens up way more opportunities than waiting for a screaming match.
• Sometimes the right move is to leave elk to go find better elk. Whether it's a herd locked up on private land or elk buried in noisy, impossible-to-approach downfall, burning days trying to force a bad setup can cost you more than it gains. Recognizing when a situation is unwinnable — and moving on to find more huntable elk — is a skill in itself.

Man, this one's for anybody who just loves talking to a regular dude who's put in the years and killed a lot of elk — because that's exactly what this episode is. Brian Rae grew up in Idaho with an outdoors family, killed his first buck AND his first bull at 12 years old within two weeks of each other, and has been chasing bulls in some of the nastiest, steepest, most brutal backcountry ever since.

We get into it all in this one. Brian tells the story of getting truly lost overnight at 19 — no coat, dead flashlight, sleeping next to a fire he built with toilet paper and a lighter, and the almost unbelievable coincidence of how he found his way back to camp. We talk about how close that feeling of panic really sits, even for guys who know these mountains better than anybody.

Then we get into the good stuff — the hunting. Brian breaks down calling in two six-point bulls back to back with his buddy Chad, a wounded-bull recovery that turned into "a bathtub full of blood," and an eight-yard, full-draw standoff with a black bear that walked right down a game trail at him.

But this isn't just war stories. Brian gets into the real strategy behind killing a herd bull consistently — why getting close beats bugling every hundred yards, why he mimics satellite bulls instead of challenging the herd bull head-on, and why wind and thermals will beat you every single time, no matter how good your setup is.

If you want to hear what it actually takes to kill mature bulls year after year — not the highlight reel, the real work behind it — this episode is for you.

This Episode is Brought to You By

onX Hunt

This episode's hunt-planning talk is powered by onX Hunt. Whether you're building color-coded waypoints, markups, and tracks or organizing an entire hunt folder before you ever set foot in the field, onX is where the planning happens. If you drew a tag this year, don't just show up and figure it out — build the system, build the plan.

Upgrade to onX Elite and unlock the full hunt-planning toolset.

http://onxmaps.com Use code TRO when you sign up or upgrade to Elite.

Bridger Watch

A smartwatch built specifically for hunting — with the best mapping capabilities of any wearable on the market. Save offline maps, pan and zoom right on your wrist, and integrate directly with your onX account to send waypoints, tracks, and markups straight to your watch. It's not replacing your phone's mapping — it's your backup when your phone dies, drops, or gets left in the truck.

http://bridgerwatch.com

Chapter Timestamps

Time Segment 0:00 onX Hunt sponsor read — hunt planning & Elite features 2:15 Bridger Watch sponsor read — the wearable built for hunters 5:00 Welcome Brian Rae — Idaho roots and growing up in an outdoors family 8:30 First buck and first bull at 12 years old, two weeks apart 13:30 The "Hell Hole" story — lost overnight at 19, no coat, building a fire with toilet paper 20:00 Finding his dad's voice at the outfitter camp — the wild coincidence 24:00 Getting the whole family GPS units for Christmas 27:30 Arizona 2021 — dropping his phone miles from the side-by-side, texting his wife via inReach 34:00 Switching from rifle to archery in the early 2000s after wolf reintroduction 37:00 The double bull story with hunting partner Chad Booth — calling in two six-points back to back 44:00 The "laughing bull" and getting outsmarked by herd bulls 47:30 The tree-falling, sneaking-in six-point stalk 51:00 The wounded bull recovery — "a bathtub full of blood" 56:00 What actually makes a hunter successful year after year: luck, time, and physical work 59:30 Herd bull strategy — the satellite bull / "bar fight" trick 1:04:00 Small sounds vs. big bugles — reading what a bull is really telling you 1:08:30 Wind, thermals, and the "New Zealand" drainage they've never killed in 1:11:30 The buck brush bull that got away — twice 1:14:30 The eight-yard black bear encounter — full draw, standoff, and the "live grubs" story 1:17:00 Last season recap, plans for this year, and closing out the episode

Three Key Takeaways

• Proximity beats volume. Once you locate a bull, the move isn't to keep bugling every hundred yards — it's to close the distance quietly and get as close as physically possible before making another sound. Herd bulls pinpoint calls with scary accuracy, so every call you make should come from a position you're willing to defend with a shot.
• Make the bull jealous, not challenged. Instead of bugling head-on at a herd bull (which he may recognize as a threat or ignore entirely), mimicking cow sounds followed by subtle satellite-bull sounds — grunts, chuckles, raking — plays on his instinct to protect a cow from a sneaking rival. It's a subtler, often more effective way to pull in a smart, mature bull than an aggressive challenge bugle.
• Wind beats setup, every time. No matter how well you know a drainage or how good your calling is, areas with constantly shifting thermals and crosswinds can make a spot essentially unhuntable — elk bed there specifically because the wind keeps them safe. Recognizing that some encounters are unwinnable on a given day is as important as any calling tactic.

Dillon Ness is back on the show, and dude, this one's a good one. If you haven't heard our last conversation, go find it — I've always considered Dillon one of the best open country elk killers I know. But what people don't realize is the guy crushes it in the mountains just as hard. Well-rounded doesn't even cover it.

In this episode, Dillon walks me through the full story of last year's mountain bull — a hunt that started with him throwing a dart at a map, glassing bulls pouring off the alfalfa at first light, getting boogered by other hunters, losing the herd, and eventually catching them in the dark on their last drink of water before bed. It's one of the best hunt breakdowns we've recorded, emotional gut-punch ending and all.

From there we get into the nuts and bolts — how to actually dog a herd in the dark without blowing them up, why satellite bulls are your best friend, what 20 failed days of hunting really look like (because that's 90% of the season, not the highlight reel), midday strategy for guys who don't have 27 days to burn, and the biggest lesson 301-level hunting has taught both of us: elk are never random, and neither should your strategy be.

We also get into a mindset shift that I think is worth the price of admission alone — using onX the wrong way is probably costing you elk without you even knowing it.

Grab your coffee, settle in, this one's just shy of an hour and fifteen, and it's packed.

This Episode's Sponsors

🔭 Maven Optics

This episode is brought to you by the good folks over at Maven Optics. Love those guys, love the product, love the team, love everything about it. Maven is a direct-to-consumer optics company right out of Wyoming, and I've personally been running their stuff for years. My favorite comment I get when someone picks up a Maven is, "Man, these are actually really good" — and I just say, "Yeah, I told you."

Binos, rangefinders, rifle scopes — Maven is, hands down, the best bang for your buck out there. Because they sell direct-to-consumer, you're not paying the big box store markup for the same glass quality.

Check them out at https://mavenbuilt.com/

⌚ Bridger Watch

This episode is also brought to you by Bridger Watch — a project I've been building for a long time now. Everyone said we couldn't take on Garmin. Here we are anyway, and I think we've built something amazing: a smartwatch built specifically for hunting.

The standout feature is the mapping. On top of all your normal smartwatch stuff — health tracking, fitness tracking, texts — Bridger Watch has the best mapping capability of any wearable on the market. Save maps offline, pan around right on your wrist, and the screen clarity is unreal. We've also built a full onX integration, so you can push waypoints, tracks, and markups straight from your onX account to your watch. Set a waypoint at the truck, drop a pin on a bedded bull, and it's on your wrist — even if your phone dies. This isn't about replacing your phone's mapping. It's a redundancy for the woods, and a watch you'll wear every day of the year, hunting season or not.

Check it out at http://bridgerwatch.com

Chapters

Time Segment 0:00 Sponsor reads — Maven Optics & Bridger Watch 3:15 Welcome back Dillon — new baby, real estate license, fencing life update 6:30 Why "time" is the real secret to killing big bulls 10:15 Setting up the story: last year's mountain bull, throwing a dart at the map 14:45 Glassing bulls off the alfalfa at first light, finding the herd bulls' pattern 19:30 Getting boogered by other hunters, losing the giant at 58 yards 24:00 Relocating, finding the sanctuary drainage where elk funnel every night 29:15 The morning of the kill — dogging the herd in the dark through the willows 35:00 The shot, and the emotional final bugle exchange between the two bulls 40:30 Blending mountain calling with open country tactics after the kill 44:00 The underrated skill of dogging herds in the dark without bumping them 49:30 "Chumming the water" — using satellite bulls to create chaos 55:00 What 20 failed dogging days actually look like (the other 90% of the season) 1:01:15 How long to wait before going back after blowing a bull out 1:05:00 Midday strategy — mountains vs. open country, and what changes with less time 1:10:00 101 vs 201 vs 301 — the biggest lessons each level teaches you 1:12:30 The onX mistake most hunters make (turn off the purple lines) 1:13:30 Two totally different hunts this year — mountains, then prairie, and "upgrading your lens" 1:14:20 Wrap-up and free hunt planner

(Approximate timestamps — adjust to final edit.)

3 Key Takeaways

• It's not skill, it's time in the field. Both Cody and Dillon agree the biggest separator between guys who kill giants and guys who don't isn't calling ability or fitness — it's days. Hunt 27 days instead of 7, and you don't even have to be that good. The years you close it out in a weekend are the rare exception, not the rule — most giants take multiple trips and a lot of grinding to finally connect.
• Big bulls are hiding in plain sight, not miles from the road. Some of the biggest bulls either guy has ever killed or encountered were within a mile — sometimes a few hundred yards — of a truck or a main road. After the first few days of season, you're not really hunting elk anymore, you're hunting other hunters. Elk find the overlooked pockets fast, and so should you — including turning off the public/private overlay on onX so you're not subconsciously avoiding good country just because of a purple line.
• Stay mobile instead of committing to one backpack camp. It's tempting to load up 5-6 days of gear and dig into one drainage, but if that spot gets blown out on night one, you're stuck. Both guys recommend "heat checking" a spot with just 1-2 days of light gear, staying ready to bail and relocate, and treating a hunt like a search across the whole unit rather than a siege on one canyon.

Alright guys, this one's a good one. Darin Hardy's back on the show, and dude, we go everywhere in this conversation — broadheads, blood trails, mountain lions with broadheads stuck in their throat, turkey hunting like you elk hunt, and the mindset work that actually separates the guy who kills every single year from the guy who's still hoping to get lucky.

We start off nerding out on pre-season bow prep — what "long distance" actually means, why I want four-inch groups at 80 before I ever worry about a 40-yard shot, and the drills Darin runs to build pressure into his practice instead of just chasing tiny groups. We get into the fixed-blade vs. mechanical broadhead debate (and why I think too many guys aim right behind the shoulder when middle-middle gives you way more margin for error), then Darin tells a wild story about tracking a bull for a mile and a half off almost no blood — and an even wilder story about a mountain lion he shot that had been living for years with a broadhead through her throat.

From there we get into the real meat of this episode: what actually makes a 201 hunter. Darin breaks down why the guys who kill consistently aren't the ones who need every condition to line up — they're the ones with an adaptive mindset who can find the shot that's three steps to the left instead of only seeing the one they planned for. We talk about the 90/10/1 framework, calling audibles in the field, why it took Darin 23 years to kill his first bull, and why the "10 straight days in September" rule matters more than almost anything else for a new elk hunter.

We close out talking about Darin's new venture, Level Seven High Terrain, where he's using horsemanship and hunting as vehicles for leadership and mindset coaching — and honestly some of what he shares about "demand vs. ask vs. offer" will change how you think about pressure, calling elk, and life in general.

If you're gearing up for season, this episode's got tactics, gear talk, and the mental framework to actually go use it. Enjoy, guys.

Sponsors

onX Hunt — https://www.onxmaps.com This episode is brought to you by onX Hunt. Remember the old Garmin Rino days where you could see your buddy on the map? onX basically reinvented that with their new Share feature. Head into the app, go to the new Go Track section, and hit Share Your Location — now you and your hunting buddy can see each other on the map in real time (works while you're in service). It's a small feature but a genuinely useful one for staying connected with your crew in the field. Go check it out at https://www.onxmaps.com.

Bridger Watch — https://www.bridgerwatch.com This episode is also brought to you by Bridger Watch — a smartwatch actually built for hunting. On top of all the usual smartwatch stuff (health tracking, fitness tracking, texts), Bridger Watch has the best mapping capability of any wearable on the market. Save offline maps, pan around right on your wrist, and thanks to the onX integration, you can share waypoints, tracks, and markups straight from your onX account to your watch — so if your phone dies or gets left in the truck, you've always got a backup. It's built to work alongside your phone, not replace it. Use code TRO at checkout at https://www.bridgerwatch.com for a discount on your watch.

Chapter Timestamps (estimated based on episode flow — adjust to exact audio if needed)

Time Chapter 0:00 Intro — Welcome to the Elk Hunt Podcast 1:00 Sponsor: onX Hunt's new Share/Go Track feature 3:00 Sponsor: Bridger Watch — mapping, onX integration, and redundancy in the field 5:30 Pre-season excuses, scouting (or lack thereof), and getting back into bow shape 9:00 Switching to broadheads Aug 1 and Darin's practice progression 12:30 What counts as "long distance" — 4" groups at 80, and how standards have changed 16:00 Tack drivers vs. tactical shooters — building a foot in both camps 19:30 Darin's pressure drills: cold bore walk-up shot and the 3-second draw timer 24:00 Random range drills, pin setup philosophy, and avoiding the 30/40/50 gap 28:00 Cody's 104-yard follow-up shot story and shot placement lessons 31:30 High lung vs. low lung — the biomechanics of a shot and why tracking differs 36:00 Why "middle-middle" beats aiming right behind the shoulder 40:00 Fixed blade vs. mechanical broadheads — guiding clients vs. personal preference 45:00 Jarrett's bull — an incredible mile-and-a-half track job off almost no blood 50:00 The "Shot Science" idea, uphill/downhill elk myths, and animal toughness 53:00 The mountain lion with a broadhead through her throat 55:30 Darin's turkey hunting film, elk-hunting-for-birds strategy 58:00 What separates a 101 hunter from a 201 hunter — the adaptive mindset 61:30 The 90/10/1 framework and calling audibles in the field 65:00 Journey vs. destination — why Darin's first bull took 23 years 68:00 The 10-consecutive-days rule for new elk hunters 71:00 Level Seven High Terrain — horsemanship, leadership, and mindset coaching 75:00 Demand vs. ask vs. offer — lessons from horses that apply to elk and life 78:00 Closing thoughts, shoutouts, and outro

(Note: since I don't have your actual episode audio, these timestamps are placed proportionally based on the order and length of topics in the transcript. Send me the real runtime markers if you want these tightened up to the minute.)

Three Key Takeaways

• Consistency beats conditions. The hunters who kill year after year aren't the ones who need the wind, weather, and lane to all line up perfectly — they're the ones who stay adaptive when things go wrong and still put themselves in position for luck to find them.
• Shot placement margin matters more than pinpoint accuracy. Aiming for the middle of the lungs instead of tight behind the shoulder gives you a much bigger margin for error — and understanding the difference between a high-lung and low-lung hit changes how (and when) you should track.
• Time in the field compounds. Ten consecutive days in September, rather than scattered weekend trips, lets you actually read the mountain's rhythm — and for a new elk hunter, sustained immersion (not luck) is what shortens the road to a first bull.

Alright guys, this week we're kicking it off with Tate Bradfield, founder of Process Based Hunter. Tate's got one of the more interesting backstories I've heard on this show — went from working in a mine, to door-to-door sales, to guiding elk for other outfitters, to eventually running his own semi-guided elk hunting courses where he takes 150-180 people a year and actually teaches them how to hunt instead of just pointing at a bull and telling them to shoot.

We riff on a ton of stuff in this one — his "at-bats" philosophy for picking a guided hunt (spoiler: stop asking how big the bulls are and start asking how many encounters per day you'll get), why he thinks cow calling during rifle season is one of the most underused tactics out there, how he snuck within 60 yards of a 200-inch mule deer with a cow elk decoy and no rifle in hand, and why most guys pack way too much gear and focus on the wrong stuff before a hunt.

If you've ever thought about leveling up your elk hunting instead of just white-knuckling your way through another season, this episode's for you. Tate's semi-guided archery course still has a few spots open for 2026, and rifle spots are open for 2027 — head to processbasedhunter.com or check him out on Instagram @processbasedhunter.

This Episode Is Brought to You By:

🎯 Maven Optics

If you're in the market for a new rifle scope, go check out Maven Optics. These scopes are built around world-class Japanese glass and built for hunting — not just for sitting on a shelf. Because Maven sells direct to consumer, you're getting an unmatched value for what you're paying, whether you're just getting into the game or you're dialed in for long-range shooting. Cody's used a lot of them, killed a lot of things with them, and stands behind every one.

👉 Shop now at https://mavenbuilt.com/ 💰 Use code TRO at checkout for a special gift

🗺️ onX Hunt

onX just rolled out a new Share feature that's basically the modern, better version of the old Garmin Rino days. Head into the app, go to the new Go Track section, and hit Share Your Location With Your Friend — now you and your hunting buddy can see each other on the map in real time. (Heads up: it only works with cell service, so it won't help you deep in the backcountry — but for the hunts where you've got signal, it's a game changer.)

👉 Check it out at https://onxmaps.com/

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Intro & Sponsor Shoutouts (Maven Optics & onX Hunt)
• 02:38 – Welcome Tate Bradfield to the Show
• 04:10 – Tate's Backstory: From the Mines to Door-to-Door Sales to Guiding Elk
• 09:15 – The Birth of Process Based Hunter
• 12:20 – Who's Actually Booking Guided Hunts These Days
• 16:05 – Inside the Semi-Guided Archery Course
• 19:30 – The "At-Bats" Mentality for Picking a Hunt
• 21:45 – Wall Tent Classroom Days & Elk Calling Fundamentals
• 24:50 – The Hot Take: Cow Calling During Rifle Season
• 28:40 – The 200-Inch Buck Cow Call Story
• 32:15 – Learning to Glass and Spot Elk From Miles Away
• 36:30 – The Three Biggest Mistakes New Elk Hunters Make
• 40:05 – Method Hunting with an '80s Bow (Chasing an Alaska-Yukon Moose)
• 43:50 – The Pack Weight Debate: Why Lighter Usually Wins
• 48:20 – Knowing When to Move On (Reading Elk Sign and Trusting Your Gut)
• 51:40 – Where to Find Tate & Process Based Hunter
• 53:00 – Outro & Free Hunt Planner

(Timestamps are approximate chapter markers based on episode content — adjust to your exact audio if needed.)

Three Key Takeaways

• Judge a hunt by encounters, not inches. Instead of asking "how big are the bulls" when someone offers you a guided hunt, ask "how many encounters per day will I get?" A unit stacked with giant bulls you never see is a worse learning hunt than one where you're in elk constantly, regardless of size.
• Cow calls aren't just for archery season. A soft cow call during rifle season can stop a spooked herd in its tracks, slow down a wounded animal for a follow-up shot, or calm down a bumped group of elk long enough for you to keep tracking them — all without giving away that you're a threat.
• Pack light, move efficiently. Most new hunters overpack for worst-case scenarios instead of the actual hunt in front of them. A heavy pack doesn't just wear you out — it slows your reaction time when an opportunity opens up, and it can trap you into "staying just one more night" simply because you already hauled the gear in.

Alright, if you want a raw, unfiltered elk hunting conversation from a guy who is absolutely obsessed with the game — this is your episode. Brandon Schmitz out of North Idaho joins the show for his very first podcast appearance, and let me tell you, this dude brings it. No fluff, no highlight reel — just honest elk hunting from a guy who has spent the last six years grinding through some of the most demanding country in the West.

Brandon didn't grow up with a silver spoon handed to him in the elk woods. His dad lost the fire for hunting after wolves moved into North Idaho and wrecked what used to be some of the best big game hunting in the country. So Brandon had to figure it out himself, and that journey is exactly what makes this conversation so good. From his very first elk hunt — where his cousin smoked a bull that basically walked up to a truck parked in the middle of the road — to going toe-to-toe with grizzly bears, packs of wolves, and rutting bull moose in the same drainage, this guy has seen it all.

Six-plus years in, Brandon still hasn't notched his tag, but don't let that fool you. This dude is FINDING elk — like, legitimately locating 20-plus bulls in a single season. The problem he keeps running into is the same one that trips up a ton of DIY hunters: closing the deal. We dig deep into that in this episode, and I think a lot of you guys are going to hear yourselves in Brandon's story.

We talk about the mental side of solo hunting, what it really means to "be in striking distance," how to work a bull when your setup goes sideways, the art of building a bull's ego so he's absolutely fired up the next morning, and why sometimes the laziest move IS the right move. We also get into the very real challenges of elk hunting in grizzly and wolf country, the predator management problem that nobody in power wants to touch, and what it's like to be solo in the woods surrounded by apex predators that don't have a healthy fear of humans anymore.

This is one of those conversations that reminds you why we love this thing so damn much — even when it's hard. Maybe especially when it's hard.

This Episode's Sponsors

Tricer
If you're not running Tricer gear in the field, you're leaving performance on the table. I'm a huge fan of the RP Bipod — at 10.5 ounces, it is flat-out one of the best hunting bipods on the market. It comes with long and short legs, works with Picatinny and ARCA systems, and for $350 you're getting features that compete with bipods that cost twice the price. I've shot a pile of critters off this thing and I wouldn't leave home without it. Tricer makes more than just bipods, too — go check out their full lineup.
Shop now: tricer.com | Use code TRO to save 10% off your order.

Bridger Watch
I built Bridger Watch because I was sick of pulling my phone out 100 times a day to check onX. The idea was simple: put maps on the watch so hunters can keep their phone in their pack and their eyes on the country. We set out to build the best smartwatch ever made for hunters, and I genuinely believe we did just that. If you're a watch guy and a hunter, there is nothing else like this out there.
Check it out: bridgerwatch.com

Timestamp Chapters
0:00 – Intro & Sponsor: Tricer RP Bipod
2:15 – Sponsor: Bridger Watch
4:00 – Welcome & Brandon's Background | Growing up in North Idaho, impact of wolves on his dad's hunting
8:30 – Getting Hooked | Brandon's first-ever elk hunt, cousin CJ kills a bull, truck in the road, borrowed gear, high school kids packing meat
17:00 – Six Years Deep | Journey from first hunt to now — tagged out? No. Elk found? Absolutely.
21:30 – Finding vs. Killing | Brandon's biggest skill and his biggest challenge; heavy glassing in thick country
27:00 – The Mental Game of Solo Hunting | Decision fatigue, second-guessing, the ex-wrestler problem, and why being "lazy" sometimes wins
33:30 – Striking Distance Philosophy | Cody breaks down the concept — be close, let things happen, stop trying to kill the elk and start trying to stay near the elk
39:00 – Close Call on the Wallow | The mid-September herd bull story — moose sparring, 7 cows, drawn back, two steps short of a shot
47:30 – Working a Bull After a Blown Setup | Building a bull's ego, bugling small, raking in the dark, keeping him fired up for first light
54:00 – Grizzly Bear Encounter | Sow with three cubs, bear spray + pistol double-fisted, fog rolls in, the Snapchat decision
1:02:00 – Getting Back on the Horse | Overcoming the fear, returning to the same hillside, the mental win of facing it
1:05:30 – Wolf Country | Multiple wolf encounters — road wolves, pack following them out of the timber, wolves lighting off after a bugle
1:13:00 – Predator Management Frustration | Grizzly population, government inaction, hound hunting, trapping, and the reality of wolf numbers in North Idaho
1:18:00 – Bull Moose Problems | Moose responding to elk calls, moose following, Brandon's very close call with a bull moose 4 yards away
1:20:00 – Wrap-Up & Good Luck | Final thoughts, gratitude, planning a return episode after the kill

3 Key Takeaways

1. Stop Trying to Kill the Elk — Start Trying to Stay Close to It
One of the most useful mindset shifts in this episode: instead of putting the pressure of "I need to kill this elk tonight" on every single move, just focus on getting into striking distance and staying there. Elk hunting rarely goes according to the exact plan, but things tend to happen when you're consistently close. Measure your days by time spent within range of elk, not by whether a shot materialized. This single reframe takes the anxiety out of solo hunting and keeps you in the game longer.

2. Let Curiosity Kill the Cat — Silence Is a Weapon
When a bull hangs up and won't commit, most hunters feel compelled to keep calling. Big mistake. A quiet elk is a suspicious elk — a quiet *location* is a curious elk. When you go dark after a bull responds, you're not losing the conversation, you're winning it. He'll start wondering where you went, and that curiosity will often pull him toward you. Learn to sit on your hands, let the shot clock run a little, and only break the silence if you truly feel him losing interest. When you do break it, try raking over calling — it's less demanding and gives you the chance to move.

3. The Decision Fatigue Problem Is Real — Have a Plan and Commit to It
Being physically tough enough to elk hunt is table stakes. The thing that actually determines success — especially for solo hunters — is the mental discipline to stick to a plan when everything is going sideways. It's easy to leave a drainage after a tough morning and convince yourself the elk blew out. It's harder to say "I committed to this spot for two days and I'm seeing it through." The hunters who string together good at-bats aren't necessarily the ones who work the hardest — they're the ones who make fewer panic decisions and have the confidence (sometimes fake confidence) to stay the course when doubt creeps in.

What does it actually take to stick it out on a 28-day elk hunt, fail over and over again, and still come home with a bull? This week I sat down with Matt Hartsky of Backbone Unlimited, a Wyoming bowhunter and podcaster who's as honest about his failures as he is addicted to the grind. If you've ever watched elk disappear into thin air, wondered why your calling fell flat, or felt like packing it in on day five — this one's for you.

Matt walked me through his entire 2023 archery season in southeast Wyoming: hunting public land over-the-counter tags, chasing one particular herd bull from four cows to nearly three dozen, learning the hard lesson of open-country thermals, and finally closing the distance to four yards on September 28th after 28 days in the field. It's the kind of season most elk hunters dream about — and the kind most would've quit on by day ten.

We also get into the fundamentals that separate elk hunters who fill tags from those who go home empty-handed: how to build a real plan in OnX beyond just dropping pins, why transition-area hunting is the most underrated tactic for early season bulls who refuse to bugle, how elk behavior changes day to day and week to week through September, and why the single biggest advantage you can give yourself is just more days in the woods. Matt also pulls back the curtain on what makes a herd bull so uniquely difficult to hunt — and why peak rut may not be when you think it is.

And beyond the hunting, Matt shares something personal: why Backbone Unlimited is about more than elk content, and what drives him to keep connecting with hunters across the country. This is exactly the kind of conversation that reminds you why we all love this sport.

This Episode's Sponsors

Tricer Tripods

I've been running Tricer gear hard and I'm not going back. They make everything fast, light, and simple — from their seriously dialed tripods and bino mounts to pan heads, truck mounts, and the bipod I've been killing critters with all season. If your glassing setup feels clunky or your rifle needs a more stable platform in the field, Tricer has the answer. These are awesome dudes making great products, and it shows in every piece of gear they put out.

https://tricer.com Use code TRO — save 10%

Stone Glacier

My Stone Glacier Sky Archer 6400 has been to Alaska, British Columbia, Wyoming, and Montana this year. Ten-day backpack hunt or a quick day hunt off the side-by-side — this pack handles it all because it's designed to be minimalist and lightweight without sacrificing a thing. Stone Glacier builds an entire lineup of hardcore mountain hunting gear and every piece is built the same way: for hunters who actually go deep. If you're in the market for a pack or any mountain hunting gear, do yourself a favor.

https://stoneglacier.com Use code TRO — save at checkout

Episode Chapters

• 0:00Intro & SponsorsTricer Tripods and Stone Glacier Gear
• 3:10Meet Matt HartskyBackbone Unlimited, Wyoming public land hunter, and the "everybody's got a plan" mindset
• 6:45The 28-Day Hunt BeginsSoutheast Wyoming public land, a grueling access hike, and finding the bull for the first time
• 13:20Four Cows to Three DozenWatching a herd bull accumulate cows through September and what that does to your strategy
• 19:55The Open-Country Thermal LessonHow a cool finger in 80-degree heat cost Matt a chip-shot opportunity and what it taught him
• 24:30Why the Bull Wouldn't Come InHerd bulls, satellite bulls, the rut timeline, and understanding why a bull just doesn't need you
• 30:15Peak Rut Isn't When You ThinkWhat biologists say about when cows are bred and why late September may be your best window
• 35:40Transition Area Hunting BreakdownHow to find, plan, and hunt feed-to-bed transitions — and why it works when nothing else does
• 41:00What Most Hunters Do WrongPoor e-scouting habits, bugle-chasing, and not understanding elk behavior by time of month
• 46:20Morning vs. Evening — The DebateMatt's morning bias, Cody's evening argument, and why temperature may matter more than time of day
• 50:45The Value of Failure & More DaysWhy every great elk hunter says the same thing, and what 16 blown shots inside 40 yards taught Matt
• 54:30Backbone Unlimited & Matt's Son SaxtonEight bulls in nine seasons, why the platform exists, and what it means to truly connect with hunters
• 56:10Outro & Free Hunt PlannerWhere to find Matt and how to grab the free download at elkhunt201.com

3 Key Takeaways

• 01 Peak rut may be later than you think — and that's when a herd bull is finally vulnerable. Most hunters treat the whole month of September as "rut season," but the biologists Matt talks to estimate that 90%+ of cows are actually bred in the final days of the month. A herd bull managing 30+ cows has zero reason to leave his ladies for your call until he's actively breeding and feels threatened. Stop counting on early bugling as your primary metric for elk activity, and think hard about your late-September strategy.
• 02 If elk aren't talking, transition areas are your best friend. The single most practical tactic in this episode: find a feed area, identify the most likely bedding spot, and set up in the funnel between them — before first light, with the wind locked in your favor, and soft cow calls at most. You don't need a bugle to find bulls this way. In fact, some of the best setups happen in total silence. This works even when you're hunting new country for the first time, which makes it a game-changer for out-of-state hunters who can't rely on years of local knowledge.
• 03 There is no substitute for more days — but confidence in elk behavior is what keeps you from quitting. Matt says it plainly: he's not a great elk hunter, he's a stubborn one who spends a lot of time in the field. But the part that actually keeps him going on day 22 when the bull vanishes again isn't stubbornness alone — it's knowing how elk behave well enough to trust they didn't leave the county. Understanding bedding, feeding, thermals, and daily movement patterns gives you a reason to come back when everything feels hopeless. Build that knowledge base, and the "punched in the mouth" moments start to feel a lot more survivable.

You already know Montana gets talked about a lot in Western elk hunting circles — but are hunters actually hunting it right? This week, Cody sits down with Gibson Butler, a Montana-bred elk hunter who's put in the time, miles, and boot leather to figure out what it really takes to tag a mature bull on a general tag in the Treasure State.

Gibson breaks down his 2024 season in full detail — from the early September frustrations of finding a stud seven by eight and losing him, to going deep into a hard, committing piece of country in October and coming out the other side with a 58-inch main beam giant. This is a real, honest account of what a serious DIY public land elk hunt looks like — the setbacks, the patience, the weather, and the moment it all comes together.

Beyond the story, Cody and Gibson get into the strategy that makes or breaks general unit Montana hunts: why most non-resident hunters funnel into the same mountain ranges, how private land dynamics are shifting, why calling with a Hoochie Mama in Eastern Montana might be the worst thing you can do, and the underrated value of hunting October when everybody else has gone home.
If you've been thinking about Montana, applying for points, or trying to level up your open-country elk game, this episode is going to hit different. Gibson's a student of the craft, and the insights he drops on big bull behavior, elk density versus hunter density, and hunting elk like mule deer are the kind of stuff you don't find on YouTube.

SPONSORS

This episode is proudly brought to you by two brands that Cody trusts in the field season after season:

Tricer Tripods
Fast, light, and simple — that's the Tricer way. From top-of-the-line tripods and bino mounts to pan heads, truck mounts, and their new bipod lineup, Tricer makes glass-and-glass accessories for hunters who take their optics seriously. Cody's been running the Tricer bipod hard and putting critters down with it. If you want to upgrade your glassing system, Tricer is the move.
Website: tricer.com | Use code TRO at checkout for your discount.

Stone Glacier
Stone Glacier builds hardcore mountain hunting gear for the serious backcountry hunter. Cody's Sky Archer 6400 pack has logged miles in Alaska, British Columbia, Wyoming, and Montana — equally at home on a 10-day alpine backpack hunt as it is on a day hunt off the side-by-side. Minimalist, lightweight, and built to last, Stone Glacier makes an entire suite of gear designed around the demands of mountain hunting.

Website: stoneglacier.com | Use code TRO at checkout for your discount.

TIMESTAMP CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro & Sponsor Read — Tricer and Stone Glacier ads.
2:30 The General Tag Situation — Gibson reveals he drew a Montana general tag — and Cody breaks down where general Montana archery fits in the Western draw tag hierarchy.
7:00 Public/Private Dynamics in Montana — How ranch ownership changes are shifting elk movement and sanctuary availability across the state.
12:00 Non-Residents and the Mountain Range Problem — Why 90% of out-of-state hunters funnel into the same few ranges and how to think differently about unit selection.
17:30 Gibson's 2024 Season — September Struggles — Four weekends of finding big bulls and losing them, including a near-miss on a giant symmetrical seven.
24:00 Going Deep in October — Gibson commits to a hard-access piece of country with one Peak Refuel and no water — and finds nearly 100 elk.
31:00 Watching the Herd for Two Days — Why Gibson didn't attempt a stalk immediately — broken six, a stud seven, swirling winds, and a giant donut of cows.
37:00 The Kill Shot — Rain sideways, foggy binos, Pink Panther stalking through satellites, and a 70-yard arrow eight inches back. Still double-lunged.
43:00 Big Bull Behavior — When to Strike — October elk movement, the 'cranky grandpa' bull theory, nomadic giants, and why routine bulls get killed.
50:00 The Case for October — Why Cody and Gibson love hunting the back half of the archery season — fewer people, cooler temps, and more active bulls.
55:00 What Most Hunters Get Wrong — The Hoochie Mama problem in Eastern Montana, elk density vs. hunter density, and why 'going deep' doesn't always mean going alone.
1:02:00 Covering Ground — The Eastern Montana Way — Using online research, rapid-fire glassing points, and moving smart to find elk in low-density country.
1:07:00 Calling vs. Glassing — An Honest Take — The evolution from stress-bugling everything to hunting elk like deer, and where calling still fits.
1:10:00 Wrap-Up & Outro — Links to Gibson's blog on elkhunt201.com, plus the free hunt planner resource.

THREE KEY TAKEAWAYS

1. Most Hunters Are Competing for the Same Ground
The natural way hunters research general Montana tags — looking at population numbers, picking obvious mountain ranges, following social media threads — funnels the majority of non-residents into a handful of the same units. The elk in those areas either end up on private land or go quiet from pressure. The guys killing mature bulls consistently are actively avoiding the herd mentality and looking for the anomaly: ground that doesn't show up in 15 Rock Slide threads, offshoots of established herds expanding into new territory, and country that doesn't look like a classic elk postcard.

2. Big Bulls Don't Get Old by Being Smart — They Get Old by Being Sporadic
One of the most honest and applicable insights of the episode: mature bulls aren't necessarily intelligent, they're unpredictable. The same wandering, nomadic behavior that keeps a bull alive for years is also what occasionally gets him killed — walking across the wrong piece of ground at the wrong time. If you're hunting for age class, you have to be ready to recognize and capitalize on those brief windows of vulnerability, like weather events, rut chaos, or the moment a bull is locked down and distracted by a hot cow. Patience and preparation matter more than calling or aggressive play.

3. Elk Density and Hunting Opportunity Are Not the Same Thing
More elk does not mean more at-bats — it means more hunters, which means more pressure, which means elk that stop bugling, leave timber late, and camp on private. The sweet spot for a serious DIY hunter is finding unmolested elk that still act like elk. That often means lower density areas where you have to cover serious ground to find them, but when you do, you're dealing with animals behaving naturally. Whether it's a glassable open-country unit or a commitment-heavy piece of backcountry, the goal is always the same: find elk that haven't been messed with.

This week I sat down with Cody Nelson, a man who has spent the better part of 12–13 years in elk and deer camps across Arizona and the West, helping legendary hunters like Jay Scott and Steve Chapa put tags on bulls by doing one thing better than just about anyone alive: finding game before the hunt ever starts.

Cody just made a move over to Tricer as their Director of Innovation — and if you've been paying attention to what Drew has been building over there, this hire makes a whole lot of sense. Cody has been quietly consulting and pushing ideas on Drew for years, and now it's official. Big things are coming from that crew.

But this episode isn't a gear ad. This is a masterclass. We dig deep into glassing as a genuine hunting skill — not just a tactic, but a discipline that separates average hunters from the ones who consistently find and kill mature animals. Cody breaks down why most hunters are simply in too much of a hurry, what his three pillars of effective glassing actually look like in the field, and why patience behind the glass is the single most underrated skill in the hunting community.

We cover the binocular debate that never gets old — 10s vs. 12s vs. 15s — and actually give you a real answer that depends on where you hunt and what you're doing. We get into the stabilized binocular conversation, and Cody shares an honest take that goes beyond the hype. We talk tripods, the micro pan head, the weight-versus-stability trade-off, and why Cody would rather forget his rifle than forget his tripod.

And then there's the story. The Unit 23 bull. A bull over 430 inches that Cody found by accident, locked onto for an entire day without breaking, and helped orchestrate one of the most incredible archery kills I've heard in a long time. If that story doesn't make you want to sit behind your glass longer, nothing will.

We also talk about hunting for tomorrow — the concept of letting your glass do the work so your boots don't blow up your opportunity — and why the hunters who consistently win are the ones willing to look into the dark, nasty, quiet pockets that everyone else drives past.

This one is worth a second listen. Lock it in.

Sponsors
This episode is proudly brought to you by three brands that actually make a difference in the backcountry. These are products I use personally and trust — no exceptions.

Tricer Tripods
Fast, light, and simple — Tricer builds the best tripod system in the hunting space. From backcountry-ready tripods and bino mounts to panhead truck mounts and bipods, every piece of Tricer gear is engineered to make you a more effective glasser in the field. If you're serious about finding more game, your glass needs a home. Tricer is that home.

Discount Code: TRO — saves you 10% at checkout

Stone Glacier Gear
I've had my Stone Glacier Sky Archer 6,400 in Alaska, British Columbia, Wyoming, and Montana this year alone. Whether you're on a 10-day alpine backpack hunt or running a side-by-side along a canyon edge, Stone Glacier's full suite of mountain hunting gear is built minimalist, built light, and built to last. This is hardcore mountain hunting gear — no fluff, no filler.

Discount Code: TRO — saves you 10% at checkout

onX Maps
I don't go anywhere without onX. From e-scouting potential glassing knobs before the season to navigating unfamiliar units during the hunt, onX is the single most powerful scouting and navigation tool available to DIY hunters today. Hunt smarter. Know where to go.

Discount Code: TRO — saves you 10% at checkout

Timestamp Chapters
0:00 Intro & Cold Open — Cody Rich welcomes listeners and introduces the episode topic — glassing as a skill.
2:15 Sponsor Read — Tricer Tripods — Fast, light, simple. Use code TRO for 10% off at tricer.com.
4:30 Sponsor Read — Stone Glacier — The Sky Archer 6,400 and a full suite of mountain hunting gear. Use code TRO at stoneglacier.com.
6:00 Welcome Cody Nelson / Two Cody's Walk Into a Podcast — Introductions, backstory on past phone calls, and how Cody Nelson ended up at Tricer.
10:30 Cody Nelson's Background — Arizona, Jay Scott & 12 Years in Elk Camp — How glassing shaped Cody's entire hunting philosophy and career.
15:00 Why Most Hunters Suck at Glassing — The #1 problem: people are simply in too big of a hurry. The three pillars of effective glassing introduced.
20:45 Hunting for Tomorrow — The Philosophy — Find the elk today. Hunt them tomorrow. How patience and observation beat boots-on-the-ground every time.
26:00 How to Choose the Right Glassing Spot — Reading terrain, using timing, understanding elk movement pre-rut vs. rut, and looking into the dark pockets everyone else ignores.
33:30 The Randy Ulmer Lesson — Looking Into the Sun — How flipping conventional wisdom opened up new opportunities and why big country rewards unconventional thinking.
38:00 10s vs 12s vs 15s — The Real Answer — Field of view, brightness, exit pupil, and why the honest answer always starts with: where are you hunting?
44:30 Stabilized Binoculars — Honest Take — What they do brilliantly, where they fall short, field of view trade-offs, and the pet peeve Cody can't shake on a glassing knob.
52:00 Stabilized Spotting Scopes & The Wind Factor — Why stabilization matters more for spotters than binos, cutting wind shimmer on long-range glassing, and the Epoch Outdoors app.
57:30 What Makes a Great Glasser — Muscle memory, terrain familiarity, patience — and why there are no real shortcuts to building this skill.
1:03:00 Tripod Philosophy — The Force Multiplier — Why any tripod beats no tripod. The micro pan head, the AD vs. BC, LP for backpacking, and Cody's 30+ tripod collection.
1:10:30 Chair vs. Ground — And Not Skylining Yourself — Eye fatigue, hours in the glass, and how your setup affects how long you can actually hunt.
1:16:00 THE STORY — The Unit 23 Bull Over 430 Inches — A flat tire, a spike road, one bull of a lifetime, and a full day locked onto a single tree. Michael Parks. Jay Scott. One of the greatest archery bulls ever killed in Arizona.
1:22:00 Cody Nelson's New Role at Tricer — Director of Innovation, what he's been consulting on for years, and what's coming next from the Tricer team.
1:24:00 Wrap-Up & Outro — Final thoughts, where to find Cody Nelson, free hunt planner link, and thanks for listening.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Patience Is the Most Underrated Glassing Skill — and It's Completely Free
Cody Nelson has three pillars of effective glassing: buy quality glass, put it on a tripod, and slow down. The third one is the hardest and the most important. Most hunters are in a hurry — they crest a ridge, look for 14 seconds, and move on. The elk are often right there. A methodical, unhurried approach to covering a hillside will reveal animals that the speed-hikers will never see. You don't need the best glass in the world if you're willing to be the most patient person on the mountain.

2. Stop Looking for a Giant View — Start Looking Into the Dark Pockets
There's a common assumption that good glassing means finding the biggest vantage point you can and looking at the most country possible. The hunters who consistently find mature bulls do the opposite — they look for the small, ugly, nasty pockets that are hard to see into. Late season bulls especially want to be left alone in deep timber, on north-facing slopes, in spots where most hunters won't bother to look. The goal isn't to cover the most acres. It's to look where the animals actually are — and they're usually not standing on a skyline waiting for you.

3. Your Tripod Is More Important Than Your Rifle — Seriously
Cody made a statement at a seminar that stopped the room cold: he'd rather forget his rifle than forget his tripod. Why? Because without a rifle, you can still find game, watch patterns, and come back tomorrow without disturbing anything. Without your tripod, you're fighting eye fatigue from the first hour, you're missing animals in terrain that requires steady glass, and you're giving up precious hunting time every time your eyes give out. A tripod isn't a luxury accessory. It's the tool that multiplies every other piece of glass you own — including your $50 binoculars from the garage.

What's up everyone! This week I've got Dillon Deitz back on the podcast—probably for the ninth time, which makes him the most requested guest in the history of Elk Hunt. And by "requested," I mean Dillon requests to be on the podcast. But honestly, I love having this guy on because he's genuinely one of the most passionate people I know about getting new hunters into the game.

Dillon just dropped a new film series called "The Rookie Season," and it's honestly one of the coolest projects I've seen in the hunting space in a long time. The premise is simple but powerful: take grown adults with zero hunting background—I'm talking computer geeks, software engineers, people who've never even thought about hunting—and show them that hunting isn't some secret club reserved for people who grew up doing it. The tagline says it all: "Hunting is not for everybody, but it could be for you."

Over the course of the series, Dillon takes three complete rookies—people who didn't even know why you have to check the wind—and teaches them everything from hunter safety to field dressing to making ethical long-range shots. And here's the wild part: all three of them filled deer tags within a couple days. We're talking a one-handed Asian kid named Brandon who almost died on a mile packout, a guy named Solomon who made a 600-yard shot on his first hunt and then packed a deer seven miles in five-degree weather (oh, and he forgot his inhaler because he has bad asthma), and a hundred percent disabled veteran named Steven who Dillon rattled in a buck for after scrambling to get him a tag at the last minute.

This conversation is part tactics, part philosophy, and part Dillon being sick as a dog but refusing to quit (which is very on-brand). We dive into why deer hunting is the perfect gateway for new hunters, why Dillon is obsessed with mountain whitetails instead of the yard deer everyone else shoots, and his absolute deadly system for rattling in bucks during pre-rut. Spoiler: he's rattled in five or six bucks this year alone, and his method is shockingly simple.

We also get into why Dillon believes taking new hunters into the field reminded him of the magic he'd been taking for granted—like watching a moose for the first time through someone else's eyes and realizing how cool this whole thing actually is. It's the same feeling you get when you invite someone to your house for the first time and suddenly notice everything differently.

If you're someone who's ever thought about getting into hunting but felt intimidated, or if you've been hunting for years and want to remember why you fell in love with it in the first place, go watch The Rookie Season on Dillon's YouTube channel. And if you're already a hunter, share this episode with someone who's been on the fence about trying it. Dillon's proving that hunting is accessible to anyone willing to put in the work—and that's something we need more of.

Sponsors

OnX Hunt - If you're not using the new LiDAR feature on OnX yet, you're literally leaving elk on the table. LiDAR cuts through the trees and shows you micro terrain details—benches, contours, hidden pockets—that regular topo maps just can't show. It takes your mapping to the next level and makes you a better hunter. If you're not an Elite member yet, now's the time. Head to https://www.onxmaps.com and use code TRO to save 20%.

Tricer - Big news from Tricer—they just dropped the updated AD and BC tripods with new TriTech technology. The center post is now a T-post, which makes it smaller diameter, packs down tighter, and a couple inches shorter. Drew is constantly innovating and coming up with new ideas, and this tripod system is cleaner and simpler than ever. If you're on the fence, check out the new setup. Head to https://www.tricer.com and use code TRO to save 10%.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro: The most requested guest ever (sort of)
03:30 - Dillon's new film series: The Rookie Season
08:45 - Why deer hunting instead of elk for first-timers?
13:20 - Do we put elk on too much of a pedestal?
18:50 - Teaching grown adults the absolute basics
24:15 - Brandon's story: One-handed Asian kid's first hunt
29:40 - Solomon's 600-yard shot and 7-mile packout with asthma
35:10 - Steven the disabled vet and the last-minute tag scramble
40:30 - Rattling in mountain whitetails during pre-rut
46:20 - Dillon's rattling system: Why 11 AM is the witching hour
52:15 - Mountain whitetails vs. yard deer: Why Dillon won't shoot his backyard bucks
56:40 - Calling black bears for 30-40 minutes straight
1:00:15 - Where to watch The Rookie Season and closing thoughts

Three Key Takeaways

• Hunting Through Fresh Eyes Renews Your Own Passion - Dillon talks about how taking first-time hunters into the field made him hyper-aware of all the things he'd been taking for granted. Watching a grown man see a moose for the first time and say "if I don't see another animal this whole trip, this was worth it" reminded Dillon why he fell in love with hunting in the first place. When you teach someone else, you stop just doing and start seeing again. It's like inviting someone to your house—you notice everything differently.
• Pre-Rut Rattling is Deadlier Than You Think - Dillon has rattled in five or six mountain whitetail bucks this year using a simple system: hunt pre-rut (late October through early November), blind call for about two minutes, then wait 30 minutes and go harder. Bucks are curious but not committed yet, so they'll come check things out within a couple hundred yards. He's had way more success pre-rut than during the rut when bucks already have does locked down. Think of it like calling a bull that doesn't have cows yet versus one that's already got his harem.
• Deer Hunting is the Perfect Gateway, Not a Lesser Hunt - Dillon deliberately chose deer over elk for his rookie series because it's more accessible—tags are easier, success rates are higher, and the physical demand can be scaled to the person. But that doesn't mean it's easy. Solomon killed his first buck in some of the nastiest country Dillon hunts, made a 600-yard shot, and packed it seven miles. The lesson: don't gatekeep hunting by making people think they have to start with the "hardest" species. Meet people where they are, give them a win, and build from there.

Welcome back to the Elk Hunt Podcast, your go-to source for everything elk hunting. I’m your host, Cody Rich, and this week I’m joined by the legendary Bob Terilliger, a man who’s been living the elk hunting dream for over three decades. From his roots hunting whitetails and turkeys in New York to guiding full-time elk hunts in Colorado, Bob shares stories, wisdom, and hard-earned lessons from a lifetime chasing bulls in some of the toughest country out there.

We dive deep into Bob’s journey—from moving west in the ’90s, killing his first bull, to guiding for nearly two decades, and how staying in shape and embracing the grind made all the difference. Whether you’re a DIY hunter or chasing your first bull, Bob’s insights on packing elk, learning the land, and hunting smarter will get you fired up for the season ahead.

Sponsored By:

Tricer Tripods — If you want gear that’s fast, light, and simple, Tricer’s your go-to. From tripods to bino mounts and bipods, their gear helps you glass better and hunt smarter. I’ve been using their bipod for years and it’s a game changer. Check them out at https://tricer.com/ and use code TRO for 10% off your order.

Stone Glacier Gear — I’ve packed out more animals than I can count with my Stone Glacier Sky Archery 6,400 pack. Whether you’re day hunting or on a 10-day alpine trek, their minimalist, lightweight gear stands up to the toughest mountain hunts. Visit https://www.stoneglacier.com/ and use code TRO for a discount on gear that lasts.

OnX Maps — The ultimate tool for elk hunters who want to own the mountain. OnX Maps helps you navigate private and public lands with confidence, so you can spend more time hunting and less time guessing. Head to onxmaps.com and enter code TRO for savings on your subscription.

Time Stamp Chapters

00:00 — Introduction & Sponsor Shoutouts
05:00 — Bob’s Hunting Roots & Early Years in New York
12:30 — Moving to Colorado: The Dream Begins
20:45 — First Bull & Learning the Elk Country
30:00 — Transitioning from Corporate to Full-Time Guide
40:15 — Lessons Learned: Fitness & Hard Work in Elk Hunting
50:00 — Guiding Stories & Memorable Hunts
58:00 — Staying Active & Hunting Into Your 60s and Beyond
1:05:00 — Final Thoughts & Advice for Elk Hunters

Three Key Takeaways:

Fitness is your greatest asset — Bob’s success came from being in top shape, allowing him to access tough country others wouldn’t dare tackle. Elk hunting is as much about endurance as it is skill.

Learn the land, pack smart — From horses to packing techniques, understanding your environment and how to move efficiently with heavy loads can make or break your hunt.

Adapt and evolve — Bob’s journey from corporate life to full-time guide shows the power of following your passion and adapting your lifestyle to live the dream.

What's up everyone! This week I'm sitting down with Jerrod Lile, CEO of Hunting Fool and one of the most underrated elk hunters you've never heard enough from. Jerrod spent 14 years working alongside Dan Evans at Trophy Taker—yeah, THE Dan Evans—and the stories and lessons he picked up during that time are absolute gold.

This conversation goes deep. We talk about how Jerrod went from being a good shooter to a great archer after Dan called him out on his bad habits, the mental game required to perform under pressure (spoiler: it's just like you to make a good shot), and why he's helped 15 first-time bowhunters kill their first elk. Jerrod breaks down his hunting philosophy into one simple mantra: get as close as you can for as long as you can, and good stuff will happen.

But this episode isn't all tactics and tips. Jerrod gets brutally honest about the emotional rollercoaster of elk hunting—from getting too cocky after a string of successes and missing a giant bull at 35 yards, to the heartbreak of his father passing away in the middle of a 23-point Arizona hunt. That story alone is worth the listen. It's raw, it's real, and it's a reminder that elk hunting is about so much more than antlers.

We also dive into the psychology of hunting with other people (spoiler: it usually makes you worse), why repeating the same game plan year after year is a trap, and how to pivot when things aren't working. Jerrod doesn't hold back on his mistakes—like setting up a comfy wall tent camp in Arizona and being too stubborn to relocate when the pressure got heavy—and the lessons he's learned from them.

If you want to hear from someone who's been in the trenches for decades, worked with legends, and still gets humbled by elk every single season, this is the episode for you. Jerrod is humble, authentic, and full of hard-earned wisdom that only comes from putting in the work year after year.

Sponsors

Stone Glacier - If you're in the market for a new pack, Jerrod and I both run Stone Glacier gear. I packed out a lot of animals this year with the Sky Archer 6400, including a couple elk. The thing I love about Stone Glacier packs is they work whether you're on a 10-day backpack trip or day hunting from the truck. Minimalist design, tough as nails, and they collapse down so you don't need multiple packs. Built by mountain hunters for mountain hunters. Check out the Sky Archer 6400 at stoneglacier.com and use code TRO.

Tricer - Tricer makes way more than just tripods. One of my favorite products is the RP Bipod—a legit hunting bipod with all the features you'd expect from a high-dollar setup. At 10.5 ounces, it's lightweight enough to take on any hunt. Comes with everything: long legs, short legs, works on Picatinny or Arca. For $350, it's a no-brainer. I've shot a lot of critters off mine. Head to https://www.tricer.com and use code TRO to save 10%.

OnX Hunt - We didn't have an OnX ad in this episode, but if you're a Hunting Fool member or thinking about becoming one, OnX Elite members get Hunting Fool for free. Plus, OnX is running a giveaway right now through April 15th—a hunt for two, no charge to enter. Just visit the OnX website, click the single sign-on button, and you're automatically entered. Check it out at https://www.onxmaps.com.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro: The underrated elk hunter you need to hear from
04:30 - Working alongside Dan Evans at Trophy Taker
09:15 - Going to first and second grade together
14:20 - The story that changed everything: Dan circles a bull in New Mexico
19:45 - "Iron Elk Syndrome" and why calling is the default trap
24:30 - Helping 15 first-time bowhunters kill their first elk
28:50 - The mantra: Get as close as you can for as long as you can
32:40 - Managing the emotional rollercoaster of new hunters
37:10 - Dan breaking down Jerrod's shooting and rebuilding it
42:20 - "It's like me to make a good shot" - the mental game
46:15 - Getting cocky and missing a giant bull at 35 yards
50:30 - Arizona 2023: Hunting with his son and running into people
55:40 - The lesson: Don't repeat the same game plan year after year
58:20 - Hunting with multiple people makes you worse
1:02:15 - The 23-point Arizona hunt and losing his father mid-hunt
1:08:45 - Shooting the bull on the last night with 15 minutes of light
1:12:30 - Carrying his dad's ashes on every hunt
1:15:00 - Hunting Fool giveaway and closing thoughts

Three Key Takeaways

• Master the Mental Game of Archery - Jerrod learned from Dan Evans that you can control every variable in elk hunting except whether you'll panic when the moment comes. He spent months blind bailing, shooting 5-spots, and reading books like With Winning in Mind to build his mental game. His mantra under pressure: "It's like me to make a good shot." Repeating that phrase in third person creates psychological distance from the pressure and keeps you focused on execution. Great elk hunters aren't just good woodsmen—they're elite archers who can perform when it counts.
• Hunting with Others Usually Makes You Worse - Jerrod's favorite way to hunt with buddies? Share camp, high-five in the morning, split up, and reconvene at night. When you're constantly consulting with a partner—should we go this way? Should we move?—you have 15 mini-meetings a day and 0.5x the decision-making power. Even worse, if your gut disagrees with your partner's call, you'll be less committed, step on a stick, or miss the subtle cues that lead to success. Pick a point person, trust them completely, or hunt solo.
• Don't Fall in Love with Last Year's Game Plan - Jerrod burned his Arizona hunt by repeating the same meal plan that worked the year before. Just because elk were in a certain spot last year (or the last three years) doesn't mean they'll be there this year. People change, pressure changes, and elk are nomadic. If you're consistently running into hunters or the elk aren't doing what they did before, pivot early. Don't lose four days being stubborn. The devil you don't know might be better than the devil you do.

What's up everyone! This week I'm sitting down with Chris Burandt—yeah, THE Chris Burandt. X Games gold medalist, backcountry snowmobile legend, and someone I've looked up to since the original Schooled videos dropped. If you grew up watching extreme snowmobiling, you know exactly who this guy is. But what a lot of people don't know is that Chris is also a serious elk hunter who's been chasing bulls with a bow for over 25 years.

This conversation is incredible because we dive deep into what it takes to master a craft—whether that's throwing backflips at X Games or stalking a giant public land bull for 20 straight days. Chris breaks down his journey from hating hunting as a kid (sitting in the cold while his dad napped) to becoming obsessed with bowhunting after reading Cam Hanes' book and having his mind blown on his very first day in the woods.

We talk about the parallels between high-level snowmobiling and elk hunting, why both require you to get comfortable being uncomfortable, and how Chris's ability to read terrain from a snowmobile gives him a massive advantage when hunting big country. He also gets brutally honest about the mistakes he's made—including missing a giant bull at 46 yards after spending an entire season prepping for that exact moment, and what he learned from it.

One of the most fascinating parts of this episode is Chris talking about spending 20 days hunting ONE bull on public land in Colorado without making a single call until the moment he shot. We break down the chess match, the patience required, and whether he should've been more aggressive. This is a masterclass in strategic hunting, mental preparation, and the sacrifice required to be a true 10-percenter.

If you want to hear from someone who's mastered pressure situations at the highest level and is now applying that same intensity to archery elk hunting, this episode is for you. Chris is real, humble, and just getting started in this game—and that makes his perspective incredibly valuable.

Sponsors

Tricer - I run Tricer gear, and for good reason. They just dropped the updated AD and BC tripods with new TriTech technology—smaller diameter center post, packs down smaller, couple inches shorter, and a cleaner top. Drew is constantly innovating and pushing the limits on what a tripod system can do. From tripods to bino mounts, panheads, and bipods, Tricer makes gear that's fast, light, and simple. Head to https://www.tricer.com and use code TRO to save 10% at checkout.

Stone Glacier - If you're a mountain hunter, you know gear weight matters. Every ounce counts when you're grinding up and down mountains all day. Stone Glacier was built by Kurt, a legit mountain sheep hunter who designed minimalist, lightweight gear that actually holds up in the nastiest conditions. No gimmicks, no BS—just mountain gear built by mountain hunters. Whether it's packs, sleeping bags, or shelters, they've got you covered. Check them out at https://www.stoneglaciergear.com and use code TRO at checkout.

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Timestamps

00:00 - Intro: Meeting a childhood hero
04:15 - Why Chris kept elk hunting separate from his snowmobile career
08:30 - Growing up hating rifle hunting with his dad
12:20 - Reading Cam's book and the first day bowhunting (running at a bull)
18:45 - The path from beginner to deadly: Steps 1-5
24:10 - Signing up for Mountain Tough and learning you have to train
28:50 - Giving up three hunting seasons to guide for experience
33:20 - Why 10% of hunters kill 90% of the elk
37:40 - Reading terrain like a snowmobile rider vs. a hunter
42:15 - Hunting one mountain vs. bouncing around
46:30 - The 2023 hunt: Drawing a dream tag and going all in
51:00 - Missing the giant bull at 46 yards and what he learned
55:20 - The mental difference between X Games pressure and elk hunting
59:45 - 20 days hunting one bull without calling
1:03:30 - Should he have been more aggressive? Tactics breakdown
1:06:15 - Advice for new bowhunters and closing thoughts

Three Key Takeaways

• Guiding for Experience is Underrated - Chris gave up three of his own hunting seasons to guide on private land, not for the money, but for the reps. Being around elk every single day, getting multiple "at bats" in a season instead of hoping for one opportunity on public land, accelerated his learning curve by years. If you want to get better fast, find ways to be around elk as much as possible—even if it means helping friends on their hunts or volunteering to pack out.
• Control the Controllables, Then Trust the Process - Chris went all-in preparing for his 2023 dream tag—quit drinking, worked out every day, scouted relentlessly, dialed his gear—but he neglected shooting practice. He had a 46-yard shot on a giant bull and missed because he split the wrong pins. His lesson: You can do 99% of it right and still fail if you don't master the fundamentals. Shooting your bow consistently, year-round, is non-negotiable if you want to capitalize when the moment comes.
• Reading Terrain Like a Snowmobiler Gives You a Massive Edge - Chris's ability to see mountains on a macro level (from snowmobiling hundreds of miles and connecting drainages) gives him a huge advantage over hunters who think micro. Most hunters pick a trailhead and hunt one drainage. Elite hunters understand how the entire mountain system works—where elk can move between basins, what routes they'll take, and how to cut them off. If you want to be a 10-percenter, stop thinking small and start hunting the whole mountain.

What's up, elk hunters! This week I'm sitting down with Jace Guymon, and holy crap—talk about a banner year. This guy drew a Nevada late rifle tag AND a Utah late archery tag in the same season, with hunt dates less than a week apart. Yeah, you read that right.

Jace takes us through the entire journey of crushing a 394" bull on his Nevada hunt opening morning, then immediately pivoting to Utah where he arrows a massive late-season giant. We're talking about hunting two of the most coveted elk tags in the West back-to-back, and somehow making it all come together.

What I love about this episode is how raw and honest Jace is about the process. He'd never even been to Nevada before, had minimal scouting time because of his guiding schedule, and still managed to execute on both hunts. We dive deep into his e-scouting strategy, why he focuses on covering massive amounts of country from glassing knobs, and how being aggressive—like actually jogging to close the distance on bulls—has been the key to his success.

We also get into some real tactical stuff about late-season elk hunting: why north-facing slopes matter more than you think, how to move through crunchy snow without spooking bulls, and why patience behind the glass is non-negotiable this time of year. Plus, Jace drops some truth bombs about physical fitness and why most hunters aren't aggressive enough when it matters.

Whether you're chasing premium tags or just trying to become a better late-season elk hunter, this episode is packed with actionable advice from a guy who's been guiding for years and knows how to close the deal when the pressure's on. Let's get into it.

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Chapter Timestamps

• 0:00 - Intro: Banner Year with Jace Guymon
• 2:15 - Drawing Nevada Late Rifle & Utah Late Archery Back-to-Back
• 5:30 - Zero Knowledge of Nevada: E-Scouting Strategy
• 9:00 - Limited Scouting Time: Making It Work
• 12:45 - Spotting the Bull: 4.6 Miles Away
• 16:00 - Nine Buddies Show Up: Decision Time
• 19:30 - Opening Morning Execution & The Miss
• 23:00 - 394" Bull Down: What Nevada Hunting is Really Like
• 27:15 - Was It Too Easy? Outfitters Struggled This Year
• 31:00 - Pine Nut Crop Impact on Nevada Elk & Deer
• 34:30 - Pivot to Utah: The Late Archery Grind
• 38:00 - Spotting a 10-Year-Old Bull Running Cows in Late November
• 41:45 - The Aggressive Stalk: 1.4 Miles in Under an Hour
• 45:30 - Seven Arrows, Rotator Cuff Injury & Dead Bull
• 49:00 - Late Season Bull Behavior: North vs. South Slopes
• 52:15 - Physical Fitness & Aggressiveness: The Two Big Mistakes
• 56:00 - Late Season Tactics: Walking vs. Sneaking
• 58:00 - Final Advice for Late Season Success

Three Key Takeaways

• Be More Aggressive Than You Think You Need To Be - Jace's biggest piece of advice: 95% of the time, you should be going NOW. Most hunters wait too long to make a move, trying to let situations "develop" when they should be jogging uphill to close distance. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, and even a 2% chance of success is better than watching a bull walk away at dark. The difference between successful guides and struggling clients often comes down to one thing: guides move FAST when it's time to move.
• North-Facing Slopes Are Critical for Late Season Bulls - While everyone focuses on south-facing slopes for feeding, mature bulls in late season are often bedded on north slopes where they can stay cool in their thick winter coats. Jace actually prioritizes glassing north-facing slopes because bulls will be bedded in cover there, whereas south slopes are easier to scan quickly. Look for trails leading over ridgelines to north-facing timber—that's where the big bulls are hiding.
• Patience Behind the Glass Will Outperform Covering Ground - Late season success comes down to being comfortable sitting on a glassing knob for 4+ hours straight. Bulls bedded in junipers disappear completely—you can scan right over a 400" bull for 45 minutes until he finally stands up. The difference between 0% success units and killing giants often isn't location or fitness—it's the willingness to sit and actually GLASS rather than covering ground. Pick big vantage points where you can see maximum country and commit to them.

$10,000 Elk Voucher Giveaway!

Before we jump in, I've got to tell you about an incredible giveaway we're running with Hunting Fool Adventures. We're giving away a $10,000 elk voucher that's good for a landowner tag, a fully guided hunt, or credit toward whatever you want for next elk season. Here

Here's how to enter: For the last three years, I've been building a smartwatch specifically for hunters - the Reckon Founder Series. I was frustrated with the smartwatches out there and thought we could do better. Turns out, we can. If you're a smartwatch person, you're going to love this product. Trust me.

Head over and hit the presale on the Reckon Founder Series watch right now and use code HF - you'll be automatically entered to win this $10,000 elk voucher from Hunting Fool. Whether you're looking for a landowner tag, a full guided hunt, or anything else, this voucher has you covered. If you've ever thought about getting a new watch, now's the time. Go check it out and throw your name in the hat!

What's up, elk hunters! This week on the Elk Hunt Podcast, I sat down with my buddy Jared Miller, and man, this conversation went deep. We started talking about rifle hunting versus archery hunting elk (spoiler: Jared thinks rifle hunting elk in Montana is way harder than bow hunting), and somehow ended up diving into the mental game of archery, bow tuning secrets, and his insane Matthews hunt that we filmed this fall.

Jared's one of those guys who's just obsessed with the process - whether it's shooting Vegas rounds every single day, torque tuning his bow, or working through Joel Turner's shot control process. We get into all of it. He shares some wild stories from this season, including a two-day Montana archery hunt that turned into one of the best films we've put out, and breaks down exactly how he stalked to 20 yards on a bedded bull in socks.

If you're into archery hunting, this episode is packed with gold. We talk about grip pressure, forgiveness in bow setups, the mental side of executing under pressure, and why Jared shoots 30-60 arrows a day leading into season. Plus, he drops some serious knowledge on open country elk hunting and what he's learned about where these bulls actually bed.

This one's a bit different from our usual episodes - less tactical talk, more mental game and archery deep dive - but I think you're gonna love it. Let's get into it.

Jared's Matthews Film - Immersion

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Stone Glacier - My Sky Archer 6400 has been everywhere with me this year - Alaska, British Columbia, Wyoming, Montana. Whether it's a 10-day backpack hunt or day hunting from the side-by-side, Stone Glacier makes minimalist, lightweight gear that works for everything. They've got a full suite of hardcore mountain hunting gear, so if you're in the market, check out http://www.stoneglacier.com and use code TRO for a discount.

Chapters

• 0:00 - Intro & $10K Hunting Fool Elk Voucher Giveaway
• 3:15 - Rifle vs. Archery Elk Hunting
• 8:30 - Montana Rifle Season Grind
• 12:45 - Wyoming October Rifle Hunt
• 18:20 - Getting the New Matthews Bow
• 24:10 - Bow Setup & Tuning Philosophy
• 31:40 - Joel Turner Shot Process & Target Panic
• 40:25 - Forgiveness in Bow Setups
• 46:50 - String Angle & Slow-Mo Arrow Flight
• 52:15 - Alaska Blacktail Mental Rollercoaster
• 58:40 - The Matthews Film Hunt Begins
• 1:02:30 - The Stalk & Kill Shot
• 1:07:45 - Zach's Seven by Eight
• 1:10:20 - Open Country Hunting Tips
• 1:12:00 - Outro

Three Key Takeaways

• Trust Your Instincts Under Pressure - Jared talks about how he played it too safe on his first couple stalks trying to accommodate the camera crew, but once he went back to his aggressive, instinctual hunting style, he closed the deal at 20 yards on a bedded bull. The lesson: find what works for you and stick to it, especially when the pressure is on.
• Forgiveness Over Speed in Bow Setup - Instead of chasing maximum speed, Jared prioritizes forgiveness in his bow setup (shooting around 280-285 fps, lots of vane, torque tuning). He explains how you can find an "equilibrium" where your bow hits center even when you torque left or right - critical for real hunting situations when you're not perfect.
• Mental Reps Are Everything - Jared shoots 30-60 arrows a day, but not just for physical strength. He's training his mental process - getting comfortable operating in a state of awareness, managing shot anticipation, and executing controlled shots even when his pin is floating. He credits Joel Turner's process for helping him overcome severe target panic that had even started affecting his rifle shooting.