Kohn's Zone

November 1, 2026

Learning to Think Like a Scientist

“The heart of science,” said the educator Sylvia Farnham-Diggory, “is the drive to discover, not the mastery of laboratory procedures and report formalities or the ability to recite facts from textbooks.” Traditional science teaching, often geared to memorizing information that will be on a test, is a bad bet in several ways. Students remember little of what they were taught, fail to move past sticky misconceptions about how the world works, and end up with little interest in science. Research tells us that the outcomes are far better in classrooms (from elementary school on up) that feature student-centered projects originating with kids’ questions, where the learning is both hands-on and minds-on. When students actually do science, they’re more likely to acquire an aptitude for thinking like a scientist and to develop a taste for the excitement that comes from discovery.

RESOURCES:

Marvin F. Wideen et al.,, “High-Stakes Testing and the Teaching of Science,” Canadian Journal of Education 22 (1997): 428-44 – https://tinyurl.com/53b9z2wy
Kevin C. Wise, “Strategies for Teaching Science: What Works?”, The Clearing House, July/August 1996: 337-38.
Eric M. Anderman & Allison J. Young, “Motivation and Strategy Use in Science,” Journal of Research in Science Teaching 31 (1994): 811-31
Ted Bredderman, “Effects of Activity-based Elementary Science on Student Outcomes,” Review of Educational Research 53 (1983): 499-518

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

October 15, 2026

Aggressive Nostalgia

“Schools are getting worse and worse; young people today can barely read and write! In the old days, education standards were higher, kids were less self-centered, and people were more moral.” Except…social scientists have shown that none of this is true — and that people have been insisting that things were better back when they were young pretty much forever. Such pronouncements tell us more about the individuals making them than about the reality they purport to describe. Moreover, myths of a halcyon past are wielded by right-wing demagogues and are used to justify authoritarian, “Because I said so!” parenting and back-to-basics, bunch o’ facts teaching.

RESOURCES

David Berliner & Bruce Biddle, The Manufactured Crisis (Addison-Wesley, 1995)
Richard Rothstein, The Way We Were​? (Century Foundation Press, 1998)
Adam Mastroianni & Daniel Gilbert, “The Illusion of Moral Decline,” Nature, June 7, 2023 – https://tinyurl.com/ypurm6j4
John Protzko & Jonathan Schooler, “Kids These Days,” Science Advances, October 16, 2019 – https://tinyurl.com/4cejw3ax

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

October 1, 2026

Raising the Scores, Ruining the Schools

More than a quarter-century after “No Child Left Behind” deliberately left millions of children behind by imposing nationwide punitive high-stakes testing, U.S. students are still tested constantly, starting early in elementary school. Children in many states may be forced to repeat a grade based solely on their scores. In a memorable conversation, FAIRTEST director Harry Feder helps us understand just how pervasive testing has become and why that’s very bad news. Standardized exams have largely become, in his words, “tests of test-taking skills” rather than of academic proficiency. Moreover, NCLB and its legacy of constant testing (and test-oriented instruction) has a disproportionately damaging impact on low-income and minority students. Feder explains that authentic, performance-based assessments are not just realistic alternatives to standardized tests but produce far more meaningful results while avoiding the deadening effects of a test-prep curriculum. In short, people who who claim that standardized testing is necessary or useful are those who know the least about assessment and learning.

RESOURCES:
– https://fairtest.org
– https://www.performanceassessment.org/
– Alfie Kohn, The Case Against Standardized Testing (Heinemann, 2000) – https://tinyurl.com/4akzwzf8
– Sixteen essential books about testing: https://tinyurl.com/2n44b5ux
– Stephen G. Sireci, “Standardization and UNDERSTANDardization in Educational Assessment,” Educational Measurement 39 (2020) – https://tinyurl.com/3afbv5p5

A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution — ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I’d be grateful if you’d support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it! And if you have feedback about an episode you’ve just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).

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ART: Abi Kohn

September 15, 2026

Caution: Contents Under Pressure

The psychological consequences of pressuring children to perform well academically (and, worse, to outperform their peers) are distressingly obvious. But some adults rationalize their actions by claiming that pressure can be productive. Here we consider psychological research on different amounts and types of stress, as well as asking what exactly we view as a “productive” outcome. It turns out that internal pressure can be as damaging as external, and pressure on educators (e.g., to raise students’ test scores) can undermine the quality of teaching — and, thus, of learning. Likewise, “no pain, no gain” – a particularly toxic credo often taught to males – is driven more by ideology than by any evidence of practical value.

RESOURCES

Suniya Luthar and Bronwyn Becker, “Privileged but Pressured?” Child Development 73 (2002) – https://tinyurl.com/4r5arxa4

Abiola Keller et al., “Does the Perception that Stress Affects Health Matter?”, Health Psychology 31 (2012) – https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2011-30116-001

Thomas Curran et al., “Perfectionism is Accelerating Over Time,” Psychological Bulletin 152 (2026) – https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2027-72800-001.html

Cheryl Flink et al., “Controlling Teaching Strategies,” Journal of Personality & Social Psychology 59 (1990) – https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1991-13808-001

Edward L. Deci et al., “Effects of Performance Standards on Teaching Styles,” Journal of Educational Psychology 74 (1982) – https://tinyurl.com/3nekpbyw

Alfie Kohn, The Myth of the Spoiled Child (Beacon Press, 2016) – https://www.alfiekohn.org/myth-spoiled-child/

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

September 1, 2026

How Not to Deal with Bullying

The amount of bullying that goes on in schools is as sobering as the psychological impact it has on its victims, sometimes lasting into adulthood. Alas, common strategies for dealing with this problem are often ineffective and even counterproductive. In fact, we may inadvertently create a climate conducive to bullying by relying on punitive discipline and also by pitting students against each other in contests. Rather than just trying to protect individual kids — or, worse, punishing bullies — we need to work with all students (and adults) to restructure the school’s culture and norms.

RESOURCES:

Barbara Coloroso, The Bully, The Bullied, and the Not-So-Innocent Bystander (William Morrow, 2004/2016) – https://tinyurl.com/4z3nmyur

Katherine Schaeffer, “9 Facts About Bullying in the U.S.,” Pew Resarch Report, 2023 – https://tinyurl.com/ybe5axjh

Frank Elgar et al., “Income Inequality and School Bullying,” Journal of Adolescent Health 45 (2009) – https://tinyurl.com/4rj6fs98

Suzet Tanya Lereya et al., “Parenting Behavior and the Risk of Becoming a Victim and a Bully/Victim,” Child Abuse & Neglect 37 (2013) – https://tinyurl.com/4ncaecv5

Kyriaki Fousiani et al., “Perceived Parenting and Adolescent Cyber-Bullying,” Journal of Child and Family Studies 25 (2016) – https://is.gd/ziVkTJ

William E. Copeland et al., ” Adult Psychiatric Outcomes of Bullying and Being Bullied…,” JAMA Psychiatry 70 (2013) – https://tinyurl.com/wk6du7ba

Mark J. Van Ryzin & Cary J. Roseth, “Cooperative Learning in Middle School, Journal of Educational Psychology 110 (2018) – https://is.gd/k04lUr

Maria Rosaria Di Stasio et al., “Social Comparison, Competition, and Teacher-Student Relationships…Predicts Bullying and Victimization,” Journal of Adolescence 53 (2016) – https://tinyurl.com/bdddtdej

Sung Hyeon Cheon et al., “Cluster Randomized Control Trial to Reduce Peer Victimization,” American Psychologist 78(2023) – https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36701523/

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

August 15, 2026

Teaching Kindness

How can schools help children to become not only good learners but also good people? What’s involved in cultivating a genuine concern about others, an enduring commitment to helping and caring? Here we consider several strategies, which require us to look beyond behaviors and think about motives: the care we express for students, the prosocial examples we set, the beliefs we hold about them, the explanations we offer (about how their actions affect others), and the opportunities we create to practice caring. Particularly important for helping students to grow into caring people is the (eminently teachable) capacity to imagine the perspective of others, which promotes intellectual as well as moral growth.

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

August 1, 2026

The Pseudoscience of Reading

What the real science of reading shows is that there isn’t a single method for learning how to read that’s ideal for all children. Moreover, reading is not just about letter-sound relationships; it’s about making meaning — reading (and talking about) real books for real reasons. In an eye-opening conversation, literacy expert Catherine Compton-Lilly helps us dissect the dishonest claims of the so-called “Science of Reading” campaign and understand why an overemphasis on phonics (mechanical decoding) is not just unhelpful but actively harmful. SOR mandates amount to a kind of “educational malpractice” that ultimately diminish kids’ understanding of what they read and their enthusiasm about reading itself. Compton-Lilly describes what high-quality language-arts instruction looks like in the primary grades and beyond, as well as how thoughtful teachers assess kids’ reading proficiency (hint: not with tests!).

RESOURCES

Catherine Compton-Lilly et al., “Stories Grounded in Decades of Research: What We Truly Know about the Teaching of Reading,” The Reading Teacher 77 (2023): 392-400 – https://ila.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/trtr.2258

Catherine Compton-Lilly, “Centering Children and Working Towards Equity: Teaching All Children to Read,” Journal of Reading Recovery 24 (2025): 5-16 – https://tinyurl.com/zn9pa3yu

Robert J. Tierney and P David Pearson, Fact-Checking the Science of Reading (Literacy Research Commons, 2024) – https://is.gd/3CboHH

David Reinking et al., “Legislating Phonics: Settled Science or Political Polemics?”, Teachers College Record 125 (2023): 104-31 – https://is.gd/FChhv3

Alfie Kohn, “On Teaching Reading…” (excerpt from The Schools Our Children Deserve [Houghton Mifflin, 1999]) – https://is.gd/h32VeY

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

July 15, 2026

The Remarkable Benefits of Diversity

Even if you aren’t ideologically opposed to segregation in schools, research shows that it doesn’t make sense for practical reasons — and that goes not only for segregation by race but also segregation by gender, ability, or age. What generally proves beneficial, from preschool to college, are heterogeneous environments — diverse schools and, equally important, diverse classrooms. But because proximity doesn’t guarantee affection, the optimal arrangement also provides support for interdependence: guided heterogeneity in which learning is structured to promote shared goals and perspective taking.

RESOURCES

For citations to the research mentioned in this episode, please see “Heterogenius,” the essay on which it’s based.

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ART: Abi Kohn

July 1, 2026

Raising Reflective Rebels

We’re faced with a silent epidemic of obedience, a pervasive failure to become outraged by outrageous things. Adults whose highest accolade for a child is “well-behaved” often themselves suffer from a crisis of moral courage. This episode offers practical suggestions for teachers and parents who want to help kids acquire not only the capacity but the inclination to question what they’re told — and, when necessary, to refuse to go along.

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

June 15, 2026

Fun Without Winning or Losing

We have been raised – and, in turn, raise our children – to take on faith that recreation requires competition, that half the people playing a game must try to defeat the other half. (They “cooperate” only with their teammates, and only in order to triumph over the other team.) In a true cooperative game, by contrast, everyone on the field – or gathered around a table indoors, in the case of cooperative board games – is working together toward the same goal. There are loads of such games for kids and adults, and you have to experience them to realize just how much fun competition isn’t.

RESOURCES:

Alfie Kohn, No Contest: The Case Against Competition (Houghton Mifflin, 1986/1992) – https://www.alfiekohn.org/contest/

Terry Orlick, The Cooperative Sports & Games Book (Pantheon, 1978) – https://amzn.to/33rltfY

https://www.cooperativegames.com/

https://familypastimes.com

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you have comments or questions about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to help keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

June 1, 2026

“PROGRESSIVE HIGH SCHOOL” IS NOT AN OXYMORON

In theory, the fact that all but a handful of states have eliminated do-or-die exit exams allows high schools to finally do right by teenagers, to help them become engaged intellectuals and caring people. A leading theorist and practitioner of secondary education – author, professor, and long-time Midwestern principal George Wood – examines the barriers to creating meaningful high school reform as well as how they can be overcome. That means reducing school size and class size; having students take fewer classes and giving them more autonomy; eliminating tracking; creating advisory systems and interdisciplinary faculty teams; promoting deep intellectual inquiry in place of mere transmission of knowledge; creating authentic assessment and opportunities for cross-age interaction. If all of this can be done in a low-income public school district in rural Ohio, it can be done anywhere.

RESOURCES:

George H. Wood, Time to Learn, 2nd ed. (Heinemann, 2005) – https://tinyurl.com/2z25vd9m

George H. Wood, Schools That Work (Plume, 1993) – https://tinyurl.com/2zpccmhu

Theodore R. Sizer, Horace’s Compromise (Harper, 1984/2004) – https://tinyurl.com/bdhyvtr7

Deborah Meier, The Power of Their Ideas (Beacon, 1995) – https://tinyurl.com/2u9cbkaw

Harvey Daniels et al., Rethinking High School (Heinemann, 2000) – https://tinyurl.com/3t22mfxf

Eliot Levine, One Kid at a Time (Teachers College Press, 2001) – https://tinyurl.com/59ddwzyw

3 videos illustrating progressive education at a public high school (Urban Academy):

“Talk Talk Talk”: https://vimeo.com/590281072

“Looking for an Argument”: https://vimeo.com/453359582

“Back to the Books”: https://is.gd/WH5JCZ

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it.

If you have comments or questions about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

And if you’re willing to help keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

May 15, 2026

Grade Inflation Is Not the Problem
When you look at student transcripts (rather than at self-reports), it's less clear that average grades are rising over time. And even if some grades are higher, that doesn't mean they're "inflated" (i.e., undeserved). But many conservative critics don't seem troubled by their inability to prove those claims; they're indignant whenever a lot of kids get high grades, as if that outcome were inherently objectionable. Four troubling assumptions inform their outrage: that higher grades imply lower standards; that a teacher's job is to sort students (rather than to help everyone succeed); that stringent grading motivates students (which conflates extrinsic with intrinsic motivation and is unsupported by data); and that students should be pitted against each other in a race for artificially scarce high grades (so that no matter how well everyone does, there must always be losers). If there is a crisis in education, it's not how many students get A's -- it's how many think the point of school is to get A's (rather than to learn).
RESOURCES:
Lester H. Hunt, ed., Grade Inflation: Academic Standards in Higher Education (SUNY Press, 2008) -- https://tinyurl.com/3phxfp5j
Alfie Kohn, "Can Everyone Be Excellent?", New York Times, June 16, 2019 -- https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/excellence/

A note from Alfie Kohn:
If you're enjoying Kohn's Zone, please tell other people about it.
If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.
And if you're willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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ART: Abi Kohn

May 1, 2026

Beneath the What and the How Is the Why
In the absence of an affirmative definition of mental health, psychology doesn't become value-free; its values - and the goals of therapy - are just driven underground. Similarly, if we don't reflect on the purpose of education, schooling by default is oriented just to collecting a credential. The point of this episode is not to recommend one specific educational goal but to sharpen the questions we ask about that topic (and emphasize the importance of asking them). For example: Should the goal(s) of education be the same for all students? Do we favor intellectual, as opposed to purely vocational, outcomes - and, if so, are they more about transmitting knowledge or developing the capacity for critical thinking? Is the point to benefit individual students or our society -- and, if the latter, does that mean boosting the economy or sustaining democracy? And what role should students themselves play in determining the reasons for learning?
RESOURCE:
Labaree, How to Succeed in School Without Really Learning (Yale Univ. Press, 1999) -- https://tinyurl.com/2cz5mmyp

If you're enjoying Kohn's Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you're willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, kindly click on the donate button. Thanks!

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April 15, 2026

The Best Classroom Discussions, Hands Down
In traditional classrooms, students may contribute to a discussion only by raising their hands and waiting for the teacher to call on them. In even more controlling environments, students must contribute when the teacher calls on them, even if they'd rather not. The latter practice, "cold calling," puts kids on the spot and forces them to perform on command. But the former practice, too, could be described as teacher-centered. Is there a way to change this dynamic in such a way that everyone won't talk at once while also making sure that a few outspoken students won't dominate the discussion? What would it mean for teachers to create a more democratic learning community by relinquishing the power to unilaterally decide who speaks when?
RESOURCES:
"Raising Hands" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqzSlO9dp0c#t=00m25s
Kassia Omohundro Wedekind & Christy Hermann Thompson, Hands Down, Speak Out (Routledge, 2020) -- https://tinyurl.com/26ccz97f

A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
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ART: Abi Kohn

April 1, 2026

The Assault on Public Education: A Conversation with Jennifer Berkshire
Public schools, says Jennifer Berkshire, are the places "where we start to solve problems together" and from which no child can be excluded even if she has special needs or two moms. Public education is really the foundation of a pluralistic secular democracy, which is precisely why it has long been the target of the religious right. This extended episode of Kohn's Zone features a conversation with Berkshire, who expertly guides us through efforts not only to impose religion, book bans, and a right-wing curriculum on public schools but to undermine the institution itself. Voucher plans are unpopular even in red states, but that reflects anti-government fervor more than support for public education, she explains. Liberals may be frustrated when schools fail to create a more egalitarian society, whereas conservatives fear that schools may succeed at this. Can a shared suspicion of wealthy interests -- or opposition to standardized testing -- fend off "school choice" plans? And where do charter schools fit in? Don't miss this illuminating conversation.
RESOURCES:
Jennifer C. Berkshire and Jack Schneider, The Education Wars (New Press, 2024) -- https://is.gd/9sZcHF
Jack Schneider and Jennifer C. Berkshire, A Wolf at the Schoolhouse Door (New Press, 2023) -- https://is.gd/RCGOEa
https://www.haveyouheardpodcast.com/

A note from Alfie Kohn:
My sincere thanks to the listeners who have taken a minute to click on the DONATE link (or to visit coff.ee/kohnszone) and helped to cover our production costs, thereby keeping the podcast ad- and paywall-free. If you are not yet one of the listeners who has done this, it's not too late. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so right now would be even better.
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it.

Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
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ART: Abi Kohn

March 15, 2026

Friendly Excursions into Disequilibrium
Enforced harmony is counterproductive. Pushing students (or employees) to come to agreement prematurely tends to undermine learning (or produce bad decisions). Sometimes that's motivated by a desire to avoid conflict. But conflict handled carefully is not only tolerable; it's valuable. What's problematic is debate - disagreement where the point is not to learn or seek the truth but to win. The ideal arrangement in a classroom (or workplace) is cooperative conflict, where spirited disagreement is non-adversarial and nested in a caring environment.
RESOURCES:
David W. Johnson & Roger T. Johnson, "Energizing Learning: The Instructional Power of Conflict," Educational Researcher (2009) -- https://tinyurl.com/yc7t265j
Karl Smith et al., "Can Conflict Be Constructive?" Journal of Educational Psychology (1981) -- https://tinyurl.com/474ja9bu
Alfie Kohn, No Contest: The Case Against Competition, rev. ed. (Houghton Mifflin, 1992) -- https://www.alfiekohn.org/contest/

A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn

March 1, 2026

Who's Cheating Whom?
We're often warned about an "epidemic" of academic cheating and urged to do more to deter and punish the devious culprits. But we've had a century of research showing that the frequency of cheating is predicted not by the compromised morality of individual students but by the policies, priorities, and practices of schools. Specifically, cheating is far more common in competitive, achievement-oriented environments and much rarer when students experience the learning as meaningful and engaging and believe that their teachers care about them. In this episode we consider how systemic features not only increase the likelihood of cheating but are responsible for determining which actions (such as collaborating or consulting reference sources) constitute cheating in the first place.
RESOURCES:
Eric M. Anderman and Tamera B. Murdock, Psychology of Academic Cheating (Elsevier, 2007)
Character Education Inquiry, Studies in the Nature of Character. Volume 1: Studies in Deceit (New York: Macmillan, 1928) -- https://tinyurl.com/72jrrnrz
Y. Kanat-Maymon et al., "The Role of Basic Need-Fulfillment in Academic Dishonesty," Contemporary Educational Psychology 43 (2015) -- https://tinyurl.com/yjvxswsy

A note from Alfie Kohn:
If you've been enjoying, or at least listening to, the podcast but have put off supporting it with a modest quantity of cash, I am pleased to inform you that it is not too late to do so. It will also not be too late to do so tomorrow, but doing so today would be even better. Microphones, as my late father might have said, do not grow on trees.
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

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ART: Abi Kohn

February 15, 2026

The Whole Point Is That There's No Point
Early-childhood educators remind us how vital it is for kids to have plentiful opportunities to engage in free play - which, sadly, is often denied to them as academic pressures are imposed too early and too intensely. But let's consider some perspectives on play that are less obvious: how the word is sometimes applied to activities that really aren't play at all; how important play is for older students and adults, too; how play isn't the only alternative to "work" in a school setting; and why we shouldn't try to justify play on the basis of the skills or dispositions it supposedly helps children to acquire. True play has no goal other than itself, and the chance to enjoy it shouldn't be conditioned on whether it proves to be useful.
RESOURCES:
https://allianceforchildhood.org/
https://www.naeyc.org/
NIFplay.org
Deborah Meier et al., Playing for Keeps (Teachers College Press, 2010): https://tinyurl.com/2hbamnpt
Vivian Gussin Paley, A Child’s Work (Univ. of Chicago Press, 2005): https://tinyurl.com/34yzzscw
David Elkind, The Power of Play (Hachette, 2007): https://tinyurl.com/y94mhxfz
A. Kohn, "Students Don't 'Work' -- They Learn," Education Week, September 3, 1997: https://tinyurl.com/yzzwbkxx

A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn

February 1, 2026

Beyond "Electronic Flashcards": A Conversation with Gary Stager
Computers in classrooms may have the potential to radically enrich and democratize student learning, but the reality of ed tech typically looks very different. This extended episode of Kohn's Zone features a stimulating conversation with Gary Stager, one of our foremost experts on this topic. He takes us beyond banal generalities ("technology has pluses and minuses") in order to tease out which types, uses, and purposes are constructive and which are a waste of time - or worse. In what he calls our current "age of rising pedagogical authoritarianism," tech often is put in the service of "managing children, 'delivering' instruction, narrowing the curriculum, and turn[ing] kids into question-answering ATMs." Whereas, Stager insists, computers can and should help students to mess around with possibilities, create thrilling projects, and make sense of the world.
RESOURCES
Sylvia Libow Martinez and Gary Stager, Invent to Learn: Making, Tinkering, and Engineering in the Classroom (2nd ed.), 2019: https://tinyurl.com/33k48zd8
Gary Stager, Twenty Things to Do with a Computer - Forward 50, 2021: https://tinyurl.com/mpdky2cw
https://constructingmodernknowledge.com/
Alfie Kohn, "The Sneaky Conservatism of Ed Tech," Education Week, September 27, 2023: https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/tech-conservatism/

A note from Alfie Kohn:
My sincere thanks to the listeners who have taken a minute to click on the DONATE link and helped to cover our production costs, thereby keeping the podcast ad- and paywall-free. If you are not yet one of the listeners who has done this, it's not too late. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so right now would be even better.
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it!

Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
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PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn

January 15, 2026

How to Kill Kids' Interest in Reading
Surveys reveal that fewer children and adults are reading for pleasure. This might be due partly to social media, but certain classroom strategies and school policies likely play a role. In this episode we come at the issue backwards: What would teachers do if their goal was to extinguish kids' enthusiasm about books? Well, they would adopt a "fonix fetish" when teaching young children. They would require older students to read for a certain length of time -- and keep a log to prove they complied. They would assign books rather than letting kids choose, test them on the content, and offer rewards for reading. These and other traditional practices are extremely effective...at leading kids to regard reading as an activity to be endured rather than enjoyed.
RESOURCES:
Jessica K. Bone et al., "The Decline in Reading for Pleasure Over 20 Years...," iScience, 2025: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12496190/
Teresa Cremin, "Reading for Pleasure," Language and Education, 2024: https://tinyurl.com/376jcra8
Katherine Marsh, "Why Kids Aren't Falling in Love with Reading," The Atlantic, March 2023: https://tinyurl.com/mrxyfdpd
Alfie Kohn, "A Closer Look at Reading Incentive Programs," excerpt from Punished by Rewards (1993/2018): https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/reading-incentives/
For a list of sources debunking claims of the "Science of Reading" campaign about phonics instruction, see note 11 of A. Kohn, "The Siren Song of 'Evidence-Based Instruction," 2024: https://tinyurl.com/24nyam6y.
Seth A. Parsons & Joy Dangora Erickson, “Where Is Motivation in the Science of Reading?“, Phi Delta Kappan, 2024: https://tinyurl.com/mus7vn5p
Michael Becker et al., “Intrinsic and Extrinsic Reading Motivation as Predictors of Reading Literacy,” J of Educational Psych, 2010: https://tinyurl.com/3z34ctdd
Linda M. Pavonetti et al., “Accelerated Reader: What Are the Lasting Effects...?", J of Adolescent & Adult Literacy, 2002/2003: https://tinyurl.com/yj8dfnwb
Barbara A. Marinak & Linda B. Gambrell, “Intrinsic Motivation and Rewards,” Literacy Research & Instruction, 2008: https://tinyurl.com/2yc3zrjp

A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution -- ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I'd be grateful if you'd support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. And if you have feedback about an episode you've just listened to, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

Please click the button below to donate.
If you don’t see a button, please go to this page (https://coff.ee/kohnszone).
Donate
PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Ultraviolet Audio
ART: Abi Kohn