Songwriter Soup

Maren Morris ("My Church", "The Bones") parks it on the Soup couch this week for a deep dive on some of the most unexplored topics in the music industry. She unpacks the baffling reality of why producers get points but songwriters don't in the streaming age, spills the tea on how country radio works and the conversations artists are afraid of. She also covers a LOT about navigating major label deals, renegotiating contracts, and the crucial importance of creatives supporting creatives. Enjoy guys!

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Deric Ruttan (“What Was I Thinking” Dierks Bentley, “Mine Would Be You” Blake Shelton, “Any Ol’ Barstool” Jason Aldean) joins the trio this week to unlock the secret to staying in this business for a lifetime. He opens up about the emotional toll of the built in rejection part of this gig, the importance of separating work from identity for his own sanity, and how he manages to stay grounded in this topsy turvy industry. We discuss that magic male energy that can handle very strong women in creative spaces (which Deric has mastered in my opinion… oh hey, it’s Laura writing this). We also break down the paradox of a songwriter’s need to stay so so so vulnerable in the writing room, while also being so so so thick skinned the moment the song leaves the writing room…. A really challenging combo! Deric has managed to keep slinging hits for roughly three decades. If you’re one of those people who wants to do this forever and ever, amen, this is the episode for you!

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Joybeth Taylor (“Choosin’ Texas” Ella Langley, “I Can’t Love You Anymore” Ella Langley & Morgan Wallen, “Empty Words” Corey Kent) is living through once-in-a-lifetime songwriter success with faith, grace and open hands. JoyBeth’s experience on music row is the quintessential Nashville journey—artist turned songwriter (waiter / nanny / lifeguard / day job / day job / day job…..) to revered addition to the writing room. The moment this story becomes singularly JoyBeth’s is through her long time partnership with record breaking artist, Ella Langley, whom she casually met while fishing. Joybeth is a fantastic example of patience and calm for anyone just starting out in this business, as well as those passing through a moment of success. Keep calm and carry on.

She is also Songwriter Soup’s first guest as a non-profit! Welcome to season 5-01c3!!

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This week, we have Nashville’s most considerate publisher, Creative Nation’s Beth Laird on the podcast. Married to a hit songwriter (Soup season 1 alum, Luke Laird), Beth has a front row seat to the hearts, habits and creature comforts of creative minds. We talk about how Beth and Luke went against the publishing company grain when they started Creative Nation and how those decisions remain the core of the company’s ethos. We cover topics like the evolution of women in Nashville music, the emotional core of nurturing songwriters, the changing landscape of music consumption, and why sometimes, all you need is a good snack strategy to make people feel loved and seen. Beth is one of the good ones. Enjoy this episode!

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This week’s guest, artist and songwriter, Alana Springsteen (“ghost in my guitar”, “Hot Honey” and her latest album I Hope This Helps), discusses the burn out that comes with starting out in the music business at a young age, and the breaking points that led her back to making music for her own soul. Alana and the trio talk about how difficult it is to maintain a sense of genuine purpose in an industry that often props up the optics of monthly listenership and streams, while disregarding the potential and importance of a smaller, passionate, loyal audience. They discuss the evolving role of songwriters in artists’ lives, how a 'no matter what' mindset can transform your creative process and connect you with fans on a deeper level. Enjoy this episode!

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In this deeply honest and illuminating episode of Songwriter Soup, Nashville songwriter Nell Maynard (“Opti-MYSTIC” Abbie Callahan, “Blueneck” Chris Housman, “Like A Boy” LEW) joins us for a wide-ranging conversation that challenges traditional music industry norms.

From securing a highly unusual publishing deal that grants her 100% ownership of her writing and publishing with zero advance, to opening up about asking her parents for a "values-aligned investment" to replace her $14/hour side jobs, Nell offers a masterclass in transparency.

The episode explores the stigma around financial privilege, why historical patronage of the arts is essential when DSPs underpay creators, how to stop over-booking writing calendars out of insecurity and the mindset of "Fear vs. Love.” Nell is full of wisdom and I’ll bet songwriters of all stages have something to learn from her. Enjoy this episode!

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Blake Pendergrass (“Just In Case” Morgan Wallen, “Brunette” Tucker Wetmore, “ROCKSTAR” Hardy) is on the Songwriter Soup couch this week breaking down his bizarre entrance into the music industry-an emphatic push from his lawyer parents to skip normal people school and pursue music.

Blake walks us thru the typical ten year town songwriter experience of waiting tables, finding community & cowriters doing the same thing, and that first song that gets the ball rolling. We talk “outside” songs (when artists cut songs they didn’t write), and Morgan Wallen, who cuts outside songs while a lot of artists won’t.

How many songs does it takes to land one of those? Hint: it’s a lot!! We also break down toxic frugality, the fear that the money you finally made will disappear for no reason and with no explanation. Blake is a fabulous guest we hope you’ll enjoy this episode!

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Hit Songwriter, founder of Hope On The Row, and overall angel, Ava Suppelsa (“Better Me For You (Brown Eyes)” Max McKnown, “Critic” Avery Anna, “Salt, Lime & Tequila” Ryan Griffin) joins the trio on the couch this week.

Ava is one of those people that knows how to human. From quitting a cushy record label job to clean up bachelorette confetti in order to pursue her songwriter dream, to her first huge hit with Max McKnown, she approaches her journey with a sense of gratitude, humor and confidence that is simply inspiring.

She is also the founder of Hope On The Row, a weekly outreach non-profit that feeds Nashville’s unhoused community, which has also become a place where songwriters can connect with each other while doing something good for humanity. What a bad b*tch! We love Ava and this episode.

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Mags Duval (“Ordinary” Alex Warren, “To Love Someone” Benson Boone, “Flame” Teddy Swims) has one of the most interesting songwriter stories we’ve ever heard on the podcast.

Born with singular voice and style, she was meant for this from a very early age. In fact, her one and only song, managed to wow Nick Cannon, and jump start her career at thirteen years old (13!). But with all the luck and talent in the world, as it often does, it still took forever to hit.

Mags describes the risks and pay offs of staying authentic to her own art making, the toggles between LA and Nashville and how to squeeze the most juice out of both, as well as a quick lesson in recoupment publishing deals (yikes), writing camps, pandemic delays and The Girls Of Nashville.

She also walks us through what it’s like to have your first hit literally shift the earth’s crust under your feet (ever heard of a little song called “Ordinary”)? Songwriting is nuts, and this story is sure to give you hope, determination and renew your vows to staying true to yourself. Enjoy!

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Artist and genuine songwriter advocate, Ashley McBryde (“Girl Goin Nowhere”, “Martha Divine,” “Bible and a .44”) pulls up some couch this week to bring a massive, unfiltered perspective to the pod.

We go everywhere in this one—from Ashley's early days running loss prevention at Guitar Center and getting paid in chicken strips for writers' rounds. We discuss the difference between an artist and a star, as well as the multifaceted experience that comes with pandering to the radio... or not.

But the real crux of this conversation is a heavy, unprotected look at the business side of the artist-writer relationship. The crew breaks down the critical necessity for new artists to negotiate earmarked master points for their songwriters before signing a major label deal (or any deal really!

Indie deals, management deals, etc), and why having the humility to admit you don't actually know your own contract's point structure is (or how it works) might be the vital first step to fixing a broken ecosystem. Listen, learn, change it. IF THERE WERE MORE ASHLEY’s IN THE ARTIST WORLD, this could change EVERYTHING for us.

This is a must listen for anyone in the music industry - artists, songwriters, label people, publishers, managers. We have to change the way we think about a song and its value or songwriters will not be able to afford to be where they belong—-in songwriter rooms.

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Ben Johnson (“All The Way” BigXThaPlug & Bailey Zimmerman, “TRUCK BED” Hardy, “Dying Man” Morgan Wallen) is on the pod this week to discuss family, outliers, finding co-writers and lawyers.

We cover some new territory as it pertains to picking lawyers. We have sadly noticed how often the first lawyer you pick is a name you got from the person you actually negotiate against. We’re too trusting, my loves! Find your own lawyer.

Ben is such a fabulous guest, writer and songwriter/publisher. His deals are different than the ones he signed and he explains why. We love Ben! Enjoy this episode.

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This week, the Songwriter Soup crew interviews Lauren Hungate (“Holy Smokes” Bailey Zimmerman, “Break First” Tucker Wetmore, “The Aftermath” Carter Faith).

We jump around from being a mom & songwriter at the same time, the ideal ballad to bop ratio, social media (friend or foe), discovering artists at the ground floor only to watch them end up in fancier rooms and how to handle that with poise.

We also go hard on the use of AI in songwriting and its similarity to Covid (remember getting the Zoomies? — iykyk)…. By that we mean, both are bringing those of us who truly love the art of it to the forefront and how survival of the fittest is alive and well as we live through yet another challenging era for songwriters.

We loved this conversation! We think you will too. Enjoy!

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Laura collected, sifted, and solicited and we have round of listener questions we’ll be addressing this week. We cover the most asked questions like how to get some decent song feedback, and where not to go for that. We discuss being socially awkward while networking, which feels like a curse for... some of us. We also discuss the delicate nature of songwriters existing in other parts of the music industry. Tricky! Anyhoo, enjoy this episode!

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Mike Robinson (“For The Rest Of Your Life” - Teddy Swims, “Umbrella” Fitz and The Tantrums, “4runner” Brenn!) joins the Songwriter Soup trio this week to discuss how being a no-brainer hit songwriter still involves a load of patience while you wait for the proof (a big ol fat hit) to show up.

Mike shares his approach on his career as he makes his way through-continue to show up, kick ass (which he does with ease) and most importantly, have a fantastic time doing the job. We think this is the cocktail that can almost guarantee success at this stage of the game, so anyone on their way, but not quite there, would benefit from a listen to this episode.

We also discuss some songwriter room dynamics never discussed on the pod.. like that moment when the song has soured and it’s time to maybe, sorta, kinda consider starting fresh. Enjoy this episode!

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The crew is joined by Austin Goodloe (“Dandelion” Ella Langley, “Rocky Mountain Low” Corey Kent & Koe Wetzel, “I Can’t Love You Anymore" Ella Langley & Morgan Wallen) to discuss the difference between confidence and cockiness, obsession with music, and not letting tenure spoil the magic of this crazy career.

Austin shares stories about how Jelly Roll helped get him signed to a publishing deal, how Ben Rector’s golf game taught him about career stamina and how being a producer is an advantage in the writing room, but also, how it can also put you in a position to be taken advantage of (that whole “sending stems” situation).

The group was also joined by The Tennessean so if you’re here because of that article, welcome and enjoy this episode!

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Producer and songwriter David Spencer parks it on the Soup couch this week, bringing a massive amount of cross-genre perspective, jumping from Christian radio hits like Katie Nichole’s "In Jesus Name" to producing a viral TikTok pop smash for Neoni, and even helming Jo Dee Messina’s highly anticipated upcoming return album.

But before the chaotic six-week period in 2022 where his career exploded all at once, David lived a gruelling double life. He pulls back the curtain on the reality of the Nashville hustle: spending his mornings chasing cuts and his evenings running a private music lesson business, missing family dinners for almost a decade just to keep his dream afloat.

The crew digs into the psychology of songwriting with a day job and the gut wrenching moment you decide to give up a steady income to lean into the dream.

It’s a beautiful conversation about surviving the terrifying dips of the music business, why you have to wear multiple hats to survive, and the crucial difference between stubbornly "never giving up" and staying curious enough to just "keep going."

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This week the trio sits down with the tallest man to ever enter the Songwriter Soup lair: producer and songwriter Paul DiGiovanni (“How Not To” Dan + Shay, "The Ones That Didn’t Make It Back Home” Justin Moore, “Lose You” Jordan Davis).

Paul’s journey is a masterclass in the winding road of the music industry, traversing from the height of 2000s emo with Boys Like Girls ("The Great Escape”) to the final frontier of guitars in Nashville. He pulls back the curtain on the raw reality of starting over from scratch - trading TRL interviews and Taylor Swift collabs for a two-bedroom house shared by four dudes in East Nashville. Paul shares his moving-the-dirt philosophy, reminding every new writer that you have to show up for the bad days if you ever want to strike gold.

The crew digs into the nitty gritty of the producer-writer life, exploring why production feels a lot like getting a painful tattoo: a mix of initial excitement, mid-project agony, and a high that only hits once the ink (or the track) is dry.

Between his swoopy-haired band roots and his country success, Paul has plenty of perspective (and tea!) on the music business. It’s a candid look at why you need "that dog" in you to survive the industry’s toxicity and why winning the day in the room is the only drug that keeps the real ones coming back.

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This week we host songwriting couple (each a BMI Songwriters Of The Year of years past), Nicolle Galyon & Rodney Clawson.

We cover the importance of acknowledging your “money scripts” - those things you knew to be true about money when you were a kid that you dragged into your adulthood. We also touch on that moment when success as a songwriter becomes a temptation to delve into different sides of the music industry.

We cover how dynamics at home are affected when spouses bring identical work issues, triumphs and disappointments to the dinner table, and some theories on how to prevent your children from turning into assholes.

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Producer and songwriter Gabe Simon (“Stick Season” Noah Kahan, “Blue Banisters” Lana Del Ray, “The Man That Came Back” Jessie Murph) shares his journey from driving Uber while on a publishing deal to producing career-defining records for Noah Kahan, Dermot Kennedy, and Lana Del Rey.

This conversation explores the financial realities of the music business, the importance of community over competition, and how to build sustainable creative careers. Gabe and the crew delve into some new topics for Songwriter Soup, hope you enjoy.

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Trio de Songwriter Soup delve into art/business relationships and more on today’s episode. When it comes to a songwriter’s relationship with an artist, what is loyalty exactly? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing?

Man, it sure can get tricky as people come and go (and come and go again). Holding too tightly and/or getting one’s feelings hurt can do damage, internally and externally. Let’s talk about it! But wait, are we even talking about songwriting? Totally.

Are we talking about EVERYTHING? Perhaps? Either way, hope it helps!

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