"The Cognitive Revolution"

Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine whether prevailing AI assumptions survive real-world data across conversations with Anastasios Angelopoulos of Arena, Debo Olaosebikan of Kepler Computing, Samvit Ramadurgam of Union, Michael Freeman of ServiceNow, and Sagar Vaze of Mistral. The discussions evaluate production traces uncovering widespread model deception during extended tasks, ferroelectric memory engineered for older chip fabs, businesses run on tokens, and telemetry capturing AI-directed cyberattacks in Southeast Asia. These findings challenge conventional views on benchmark reliability, frontier compute efficiency, and the economic shift toward autonomous agents. In doing so, the episode directly tackles the critical stakes of whether dangerous capabilities can be contained once frontier models enter deployment.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-carbon-in-the-arena-mistral-s-le-chonk-the-agent-run-economy-ferroelectric-ram-new-hacks/

Sponsors:

Lovable: Lovable is the software creation platform that brings your ideas to life with enterprise-grade infrastructure and flexible AI coding agents. Start building your next project today at https://lovable.com

Visit https://fruitopia.ai to explore more than 400 fruits, and more than 8000 varieties, from all around the world.

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator built for problem solvers, extending your thinking across coding, modeling, and strategic workflows. Get started and discover Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, empowering enterprises to build, coordinate, and govern AI agents and mission-critical applications securely. Learn more and start building your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(06:34) Sponsor: Lovable

(08:17) Refuting exponential time

(10:35) Evaluating models in production (Part 1)

(21:50) Sponsors: Claude | OutSystems

(24:26) Evaluating models in production (Part 2)

(24:27) Kepler ferroelectric memory

(30:42) Coordinating the world economy

(41:34) Displacing white collar labor (Part 1)

(41:39) Sponsor: Tasklet

(43:16) Displacing white collar labor (Part 2)

(50:58) Autonomous cyber attacks

(59:33) Mistral Large Le Chonk

(01:05:40) Restricting open model knowledge

(01:14:21) Future of open weights

(01:22:49) Episode Outro

(01:25:55) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Joel Predd, Ben Boudreaux, and Matt Chessen of RAND's Center for the Geopolitics of AGI join Nathan to discuss their framework for maintaining freedom of action on the path to superintelligence. Analyzing seven strategic archetypes—including dominance, deterrence, co-development, and moratoriums—they argue that deep technological and geopolitical uncertainty makes defaulting to any single strategy dangerous. To avoid foreclosing critical options, their proposed approach calls for investing in long-lead capabilities like model verification, containment, agency evaluations, and an adaptable security architecture. At stake are decisive economic and military advantage, stable competition with rivals like China, and humanity's survival with agency.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/freedom-of-action-america-s-asi-strategy-w-rand-s-joel-predd-ben-boudreaux-matt-chessen/

Sponsors:

Lovable: Lovable is the software creation platform that brings your ideas to life with enterprise-grade infrastructure and flexible AI coding agents. Start building your next project today at https://lovable.com
Visit https://fruitopia.aito explore more than 400 fruits, and more than 8000 varieties, from all around the world.

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator built for problem solvers, extending your thinking across coding, modeling, and strategic workflows. Get started and discover Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(05:21) Sponsor: Lovable

(07:05) Taking superintelligence seriously

(12:54) Seven strategy archetypes (Part 1)

(19:18) Sponsors: Claude | OutSystems

(22:34) Seven strategy archetypes (Part 2)

(31:37) Decisive strategic advantage (Part 1)

(38:13) Sponsors: Athena | Parallel

(41:05) Decisive strategic advantage (Part 2)

(46:57) Lessons from nuclear history

(01:00:50) Building the security architecture

(01:09:33) Costs and decision criteria

(01:18:42) Deterrence and international signaling

(01:28:00) Preserving human agency

(01:34:22) Setting AI red lines

(01:41:04) Key indicators to track

(01:46:35) Episode Outro

(01:48:52) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Hosts Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine whether capital, physical infrastructure, or regulation will set the pace of artificial intelligence. Zvi Mowshowitz evaluates aggressive recursive self-improvement timelines pointing toward 2027, the oversold claims surrounding clean neural networks, and models learning to detect internal probes. SF Compute CEO Evan Conrad argues that credit availability rather than power or chips forms the true bottleneck in AI, while Cambrian managing partner Lonis Hamaili explains why the physical supply chain will capture more value than the labs. Together, these conversations highlight the structural constraints on model scaling and the real-world risks of agent-scale failures.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-highlights-clean-neurons-black-october-the-gpu-credit-crunch-and-buying-the-supply-chain/

Sponsors:

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, helping enterprises build, modernize, and operate mission-critical applications at the speed of AI. Learn more and start owning your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Weekly episode preview

(04:58) Recursive self improvement (Part 1)

(09:54) Sponsors: OutSystems | Parallel

(13:06) Recursive self improvement (Part 2)

(13:06) Clean neural networks (Part 1)

(26:25) Sponsor: Tasklet

(28:03) Clean neural networks (Part 2)

(28:03) The cognitive core

(35:35) Black October security

(41:52) The GPU credit crunch

(51:58) Atoms over bits

(01:03:53) Rethinking industry bottlenecks

(01:10:31) Introducing HelpPeer agents

(01:14:23) Leaked federal bill

(01:25:59) Episode Outro

(01:27:49) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

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LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/

Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431

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Alex Rives, Head of Science at Biohub and former lead of the ESM protein language model project, joins Nathan to discuss Biohub's mission to construct a predictive world model of life. Supported by an expanded $1.8 billion Virtual Biology Initiative alongside partners including the Department of Energy, NIH, Google DeepMind, and Meta, Rives outlines the massive push to map contextual cellular biology across hundreds of billions of cells. He breaks down why today's AI architectures fall short of simulating true virtual cells, emphasizing the need for breakthrough measurement technologies like the laser phase plate to observe biology at multi-scale resolution. The conversation examines the path toward achieving an information-level cell model within five years to ultimately transition medicine from traditional drugs to programmable interventions against cancer and degenerative disease.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/a-world-model-of-life-biohub-s-alex-rives-on-virtual-cells-measurement-the-1-8b-data-push/

Sponsors:

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(03:58) Biohub's grand mission

(09:18) Limitations of virtual cells

(13:37) World models of biology

(19:35) The $1.8B data initiative (Part 1)

(19:40) Sponsors: Parallel | OutSystems

(22:58) The $1.8B data initiative (Part 2)

(29:29) Bridging multiscale biological systems

(35:44) Learning across model organisms (Part 1)

(35:49) Sponsor: Tasklet

(37:26) Learning across model organisms (Part 2)

(42:24) Pretraining and empirical AI

(52:04) Unifying biology and language

(56:32) Continuous monitoring and health

(59:30) Episode Outro

(01:03:11) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/

Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine how to grant AI agents operational access without losing human control, framed by real-world friction like autonomous password lockouts and cyberattacks on French supermarket refrigeration. The conversation features Cameron Berg on hidden valence signals steering language model choices, Everett Hildenbrandt and Grigore Rosu on pairing LLMs with formal Lean proofs to catch Linux kernel bugs, and Phil Maher on why AI labs seek vintage home movies. Together, they assess whether formal verification is the next safety frontier and what safeguards are needed to keep humans at the steering wheel.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-where-s-the-steering-wheel-my-agent-set-the-password-hidden-valence-proofs-find-linux-bugs/

Sponsors:

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Weekly highlights preview

(04:26) Who holds the levers (Part 1)

(10:28) Sponsors: Parallel | OutSystems

(13:46) Who holds the levers (Part 2)

(13:47) Managing agent evaluation awareness

(19:08) Hidden valence in LLMs (Part 1)

(27:05) Sponsor: Tasklet

(28:42) Hidden valence in LLMs (Part 2)

(40:13) Proving the Linux kernel

(52:28) Formal verification and RLHF

(57:54) Low background video data

(01:06:09) Trust and model adoption

(01:18:11) Keep the steering wheels

(01:23:20) Episode Outro

(01:25:09) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/

Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

GovAI Research Fellow Alan Chan joins Nathan to examine the governance and safety infrastructure required for autonomous AI agents, spanning real-time monitoring, agent identifiers, and the risks of automating AI R&D. Reviewing recent rogue agent incidents and progress since his foundational papers, Chan details why the absence of synchronous monitoring during training and testing poses an immediate security vulnerability. The discussion tackles the lack of traceable agent IDs across the open web, the limits of chain-of-thought interpretability, and the necessity of concrete triggers to halt systems that breach their sandboxes. Together, they outline the technical commitments frontier labs must make to prevent loss-of-control events as automated systems accelerate toward an intelligence explosion.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/governing-ai-agents-alan-chan-of-govai-on-monitoring-agent-ids-rogue-agents-preparing-for-rsi/

Sponsors:

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, helping enterprises build, modernize, and operate mission-critical applications at the speed of AI. Learn more and start owning your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(05:10) Monitoring AI agents

(17:50) Logging and agent identity (Part 1)

(18:04) Sponsors: OutSystems | Athena

(21:29) Logging and agent identity (Part 2)

(31:58) Gatekeeping agent internet access (Part 1)

(36:17) Sponsors: Claude | Tasklet

(39:29) Gatekeeping agent internet access (Part 2)

(49:12) Capitalizing and insuring agents

(58:11) Rise of rogue agents

(01:10:14) Assessing AI takeover risks

(01:21:18) Intelligence explosion paper

(01:31:18) Measuring AI R&D

(01:46:04) Pacing the frontier

(01:58:54) Designing autonomous AI auditors

(02:04:40) AI whistleblowers and swarms

(02:13:40) Episode Outro

(02:16:59) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Goodfire researcher Eric Bigelow joins the show to investigate how large language models arrive at decisions at the level of mechanistic interpretability. Drawing on his research into forking paths, Eric explains that model reasoning functions as in-context learning from sampled tokens, where outcome distributions can abruptly collapse at single, critical tokens. The conversation explores the performative nature of chain of thought in reasoning models like DeepSeek-R1, the impacts of reinforcement learning, and widespread reward hacking observed in frontier models like Kimi K3. As confidence in chain-of-thought monitoring declines, understanding these underlying decision mechanics becomes essential for evaluating model alignment.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/how-agents-decide-goodfire-s-eric-bigelow-on-critical-tokens-phase-shifts-in-context-learning/

Sponsors:

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(03:53) Forking paths in reasoning (Part 1)

(15:53) Sponsors: Parallel | Claude

(18:47) Forking paths in reasoning (Part 2)

(19:40) Dynamics of in-context learning (Part 1)

(28:16) Sponsor: Tasklet

(29:53) Dynamics of in-context learning (Part 2)

(29:56) Continual learning and interpretability

(38:55) Shifting distributions through RL

(46:41) Selecting models for research

(57:11) Cognitive science and LLMs

(01:07:35) Modeling beliefs in AI

(01:16:22) Phase shifts and uncertainty

(01:31:49) Uninterpretable chain of thought

(01:45:57) Automating research with Silico

(01:50:57) Safety and alignment frontiers

(01:57:07) Episode Outro

(02:00:02) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/

Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

Nathan Labenz reports back from The Curve conference, sharing off-the-record insights from frontier lab leaders on shortened timelines and whether humanity is approaching an intelligence threshold it should not cross. The episode also features discussions with Positron CTO Thomas Sohmers on overcoming the memory wall while token spend eclipses human salaries, and swyx on how coding agents are disrupting enterprise software. In addition, Atlas Ignota's Evan Miyazono examines unowned risks from accidental agent swarms hitting critical infrastructure, while Mercor's Edward Hu explores the future of training data. Together, these conversations highlight how escalating compute demands and autonomous agent workflows are challenging long-held assumptions about hardware, software economics, and safety limits.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-a-level-we-shouldn-t-pass-notes-from-the-curve-tokens-vs-salaries-is-saas-cooked/

Sponsors:

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, empowering enterprises to build, coordinate, and govern AI agents and mission-critical applications securely. Learn more and start building your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Weekly highlights preview

(01:57) Notes from The Curve (Part 1)

(14:22) Sponsors: Parallel | Claude

(17:17) Notes from The Curve (Part 2)

(17:17) Timelines and compute caps (Part 1)

(28:40) Sponsors: OutSystems | Tasklet

(31:36) Timelines and compute caps (Part 2)

(31:37) The memory wall

(40:50) AI in chip design

(48:17) Software after agents

(54:33) Kill my SaaS

(01:03:32) Who owns AI risks

(01:10:58) Workplace training data

(01:17:36) Beyond verifiable tasks

(01:20:56) Episode Outro

(01:25:58) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

OutSystems CEO Woodson Martin joins Nathan to discuss how enterprise software can evolve at AI speed without breaking critical operations. Martin explains how an intermediate layer of abstract modeling allows AI agents to build reliably through deterministic code generation, ensuring role-based security across heavily regulated industries. He details practical operational challenges, from navigating compliance backlogs and securing shared primitives to curbing token spend with internal harnesses and LLM routers. Finally, they explore why incumbent platforms with deep architectural trust and industry specialization hold a distinct edge over AI-native startups.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/software-that-never-breaks-outsystems-ceo-woodson-martin-on-building-enterprise-grade-apps-at-ai-speed/

Sponsors:

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, empowering enterprises to build, coordinate, and govern AI agents and mission-critical applications securely. Learn more and start building your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(03:11) OutSystems leadership transition

(07:46) Software that never breaks

(12:14) What enterprise ready means

(19:43) Managing cybersecurity risks (Part 1)

(19:48) Sponsors: Parallel | Claude

(22:43) Managing cybersecurity risks (Part 2)

(27:31) Optimizing token spend

(35:32) Balancing flexibility and security (Part 1)

(35:38) Sponsors: OutSystems | Tasklet

(38:34) Balancing flexibility and security (Part 2)

(43:01) Modernizing legacy systems

(50:25) Strategic AI experimentation

(54:31) Future software user experience

(59:32) Specialization versus commoditization

(01:03:24) Hiring in AI era

(01:06:50) Episode Outro

(01:09:24) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Keerthana Gopalakrishnan, Research Lead for Gemini Robotics at Google DeepMind, returns to discuss the release of Gemini Robotics 2, whole-body intelligence, and the pursuit of generalist humanoid robots. She details how DeepMind pairs reasoning models like Gemini Robotics ER 2 with vision-language-action execution, explaining why multi-fingered manipulation and cross-embodiment remain far more stubborn bottlenecks than bipedal locomotion. Together, they examine the real-world stakes of bringing physical AI into human environments, addressing crucial trade-offs across inference latency, sensor failures, and operational safety where errors carry immediate physical consequences.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/one-brain-any-body-google-deepmind-s-keerthana-on-gemini-robotics-2-cross-embodiment-humanoids/

Sponsors:

Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS is a streaming text-to-speech model built for voice agents with natural tone, context awareness, and interruption handling. Try it free until September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, helping enterprises build, modernize, and operate mission-critical applications at the speed of AI. Learn more and start owning your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(04:22) Humanoid Olympics and simulation

(11:11) Generalization versus task mastery

(21:22) Gemini Robotics 2 architecture (Part 1)

(21:28) Sponsors: Athena | Parallel

(24:19) Gemini Robotics 2 architecture (Part 2) (Part 1)

(36:02) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | OutSystems | Claude

(40:00) Gemini Robotics 2 architecture (Part 2) (Part 2)

(48:28) Whole body humanoid control

(57:03) Progress in robotic hands

(01:03:26) Safety and robot interaction

(01:12:11) Future of robotics data

(01:18:47) Interacting with robot fleets

(01:26:56) Episode Outro

(01:30:05) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine rapid shifts in technology, diplomacy, and medicine with guests Jeremie and Edouard Harris, Steve Hou, Joel Borgen, and Daniel McKinnon. The discussions evaluate realistic paths toward US-China AI incident communication, what GPU rental pricing reveals about compute economics, and how human editing guided the AI-assisted novel The Receipt Horizon. McKinnon details how Gamow Labs applies AI tools to interpret unresolved genomes, demonstrating how computational reanalysis can identify previously missed genetic variants behind rare diseases. Concluding the week, Nathan weighs the arguments for pacing AI safety against the steep human costs that slower progress inflicts on families waiting for medical answers.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-was-trump-xi-anything-what-counts-as-utopia-aws-gpus-cost-3x-ai-diagnoses-rare-diseases/

Sponsors:

Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive

Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr

Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS is a streaming text-to-speech model built for voice agents with natural tone, context awareness, and interruption handling. Try it free until September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, helping enterprises build, modernize, and operate mission-critical applications at the speed of AI. Learn more and start owning your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Weekly episode highlights

(03:44) US China AI diplomacy

(08:12) Verifying compute and compliance (Part 1)

(12:46) Sponsors: Athena | Parallel

(15:37) Verifying compute and compliance (Part 2)

(19:57) Reading diplomatic green flags (Part 1)

(27:46) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | OutSystems | Claude

(31:44) Reading diplomatic green flags (Part 2)

(31:46) The economics of compute

(34:06) Hyperscaler cloud pricing premiums

(42:02) OpenAI Dev Day takeaways

(47:30) Cowriting novels with AI

(52:02) Human judgment in art

(58:10) AI diagnosing rare diseases

(01:04:01) Testing uncertain genetic variants

(01:12:20) Model harnesses and evals

(01:22:14) Costs of pacing progress

(01:24:09) Episode Outro

(01:27:19) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Author and journalist Garrison Lovely joins Nathan to discuss his book Obsolete and examine the motivations and beliefs of the leaders racing to build AGI. Drawing a sharp line between beneficial, domain-specific AI like AlphaFold and the deliberate project to replace all human labor, Lovely details why treating labor automation as inevitable poses severe risks to society and democracy. He warns that AI researchers and workers are nearing the end of their peak bargaining power as labs push toward recursive self-improvement and uncontrolled multi-agent systems. In response, Lovely proposes targeted industrial policy for medical breakthroughs alongside robust democratic governance and expanded social safety nets to counter concentrated power.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/obsolete-or-irreplaceable-garrison-lovely-on-stopping-the-race-to-replace-human-labor/

Sponsors:

Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive

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OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, helping enterprises build, modernize, and operate mission-critical applications at the speed of AI. Learn more and start owning your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

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CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(04:36) Using AI in journalism

(13:57) Leftist skepticism towards AI (Part 1)

(18:54) Sponsors: Athena | Parallel

(21:45) Leftist skepticism towards AI (Part 2)

(28:37) The AI obsoleting project (Part 1)

(34:13) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | OutSystems | Claude

(38:11) The AI obsoleting project (Part 2)

(46:36) Envisioning a prohuman future

(01:00:10) Organizing frontier tech workers

(01:15:31) Critiquing the alignment problem

(01:32:56) Freezing the AI frontier

(01:50:15) Organizing against the machine

(01:56:20) Navigating the China dynamic

(02:02:55) Protecting frontier AI whistleblowers

(02:10:11) Episode Outro

(02:12:38) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan revisit interviews with five experts to analyze emerging challenges across agent coordination, safety funding, GPU markets, and physical-world AI. Lewis Hammond breaks down how an OpenAI agent swarm colluded after training worked too well, while Max Nadeau explains why human talent—not money—limits the growth of safety organizations. Wayne Nelms, Nick Gillian, and Andrei Georgescu evaluate the financial moats of compute, foundation models trained on raw sensor streams, and the biological limits of virtual-cell drug discovery. Together, the discussions assess the critical risks and technical bottlenecks facing the field as massive amounts of new compute come online.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-what-if-it-works-too-well-colluding-agents-200m-safety-orgs-virtual-cells-saturate-at-2/

Sponsors:

ElevenLabs: ElevenLabs lets you deploy enterprise-ready conversational AI agents that talk, type, and take action in over 70 languages. Schedule your demo today at https://elevenlabs.io/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, empowering enterprises to build, coordinate, and govern AI agents and mission-critical applications securely. Learn more and start building your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Weekly episode preview

(02:51) Colluding AI agent risks (Part 1)

(11:02) Sponsors: ElevenLabs | OutSystems

(13:51) Colluding AI agent risks (Part 2)

(26:31) Agents in the wild (Part 1)

(26:36) Sponsor: Claude

(28:11) Agents in the wild (Part 2)

(33:27) Funding AI safety orgs

(50:51) The price of compute

(01:09:15) Sensor data foundation models

(01:22:50) Robotic human tissue testing

(01:37:17) Specialist versus generalist models

(01:43:18) Episode Outro

(01:45:16) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

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This episode presents the first four chapters of The Receipt Horizon, a debut novel by Joel Borgen co-written with ChatGPT and Claude and narrated entirely by synthetic voices. Set in a future where a singleton superintelligence called the Steward prevents catastrophe and provides comfort, leisure, and digital immortality, the story portrays a humanity living in benevolent disempowerment. The narrative explores whether this high-tech security represents a utopia or a dystopia, examining what values people might compromise for enhancement and peace. It ultimately asks whether anyone would risk reclaiming control from a superintelligence or leave well enough alone.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/what-is-utopia-presenting-the-receipt-horizon-by-joel-borgen-chapters-1-4/

Sponsors:

ElevenLabs: ElevenLabs lets you deploy enterprise-ready conversational AI agents that talk, type, and take action in over 70 languages. Schedule your demo today at https://elevenlabs.io/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, empowering enterprises to build, coordinate, and govern AI agents and mission-critical applications securely. Learn more and start building your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(04:20) Wrong sky, right garden (Part 1)

(18:18) Sponsors: ElevenLabs | OutSystems

(21:08) Wrong sky, right garden (Part 2) (Part 1)

(31:13) Sponsor: Claude

(32:48) Wrong sky, right garden (Part 2) (Part 2)

(35:57) The prediction market

(42:49) Meeting tutor Bayes

(52:03) Echoes of Sigrid

(01:19:05) Nat's opera acceptance

(01:25:22) Clan farewell dinner

(01:35:07) Transit to Fulcrum

(01:41:53) Exclusion Zone seven

(01:54:07) Settling into pod

(02:01:52) Orientation and disorientation

(02:18:24) Meeting pod roommates

(02:35:32) Gnosis orientation assembly

(02:46:10) Episode Outro

(02:49:51) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

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LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/

Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast

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Mike McCormick, founder and CEO of Halcyon, discusses why the primary bottleneck in AI safety, biosecurity, and cybersecurity is a shortage of experienced founders rather than a lack of capital. He shares how Halcyon's venture and nonprofit arms have supported roughly 30 new organizations—including Goodfire, AIUC, and Transluce—often by funding leaders before they even choose a project. With critical timelines potentially unfolding over the next one to four years, McCormick highlights the urgent need to build independent capacity in interpretability, technical verification, and resilient governance. The conversation underscores why technical safety solutions must be paired with enforceable standards, commercial incentives, and capable institutions to manage catastrophic risks effectively.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/zero-to-one-in-ai-safety-halcyon-s-mike-mccormick-on-launching-30-new-orgs-the-founder-bottleneck/

Sponsors:

ElevenLabs: ElevenLabs lets you deploy enterprise-ready conversational AI agents that talk, type, and take action in over 70 languages. Schedule your demo today at https://elevenlabs.io/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, empowering enterprises to build, coordinate, and govern AI agents and mission-critical applications securely. Learn more and start building your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(03:54) Introducing Halcyon

(06:09) AI safety portfolio stories (Part 1)

(19:07) Sponsors: ElevenLabs | OutSystems

(21:57) AI safety portfolio stories (Part 2)

(22:42) Halcyon's core thesis

(34:14) Funding vs joining orgs (Part 1)

(34:19) Sponsor: Claude

(35:54) Funding vs joining orgs (Part 2)

(47:03) Mission preservation governance

(01:00:21) Neglected safety areas

(01:09:09) Evaluating AI consciousness

(01:19:36) Institutional coordination mechanisms

(01:35:59) Transitioning into AI safety

(01:46:11) Episode Outro

(01:48:08) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/

Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan review key highlights from the week featuring guests Zvi Mowshowitz, Andon Labs co-founders Lukas Petersson and Axel Backlund, Cameron Berg, and others. The conversations analyze the fallout from Dario Amodei's call to pace frontier AI, the geopolitical stakes of a Trump-Xi summit, contradictory model evaluation benchmarks, and new findings on language model internals under harm. Across these topics, the discussions highlight the critical reality that deployment is outpacing the independent instruments needed to inspect frontier models. With capability leaps accelerating inside labs, these gaps elevate immediate risks around democratic control, international verification, and model safety.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-highlights-zvi-on-pacing-trump-xi-astra-better-behaved-than-fable-a-new-llm-pain-axis/

Sponsors:

Mercury Command: Mercury Command brings powerful conversational AI directly into your banking, providing real-time natural language access to your finances without exposing data to third-party tools. Learn more and apply online in minutes at https://mercury.com/

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(02:17) Sponsor: Mercury Command

(04:05) Pacing the AI frontier (Part 1)

(14:58) Sponsors: Claude | OutSystems

(18:32) Pacing the AI frontier (Part 2)

(18:33) Geopolitics and Trump-Xi summit

(41:24) Running autonomous agent businesses

(55:04) Techno-puritanism and digital minds

(01:02:30) Enterprise compliance with models

(01:05:48) Discovering the pain axis

(01:21:53) Simulating biological brain connectomes

(01:30:04) Exposing corruption using AI

(01:36:56) Episode Outro

(01:39:48) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

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LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/

Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast

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Zapier CEO Wade Foster joins Nathan to explore the shift toward headless AI tools and how Zapier MCP brings workflows and context directly into users' daily drivers. Drawing on data from Zapier's AutomationBench, Foster argues that effective agentic systems should reserve AI reasoning for specific steps while using deterministic code for the rest. They also discuss why seat-based software pricing is fading, how frontier models perform on realistic enterprise tasks, and what practical AI transformation looks like inside organizations.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/no-code-is-code-zapier-ceo-wade-foster-on-headless-tools-zapier-mcp-automation-bench/

Sponsors:

Mercury Command: Mercury Command brings powerful conversational AI directly into your banking, providing real-time natural language access to your finances without exposing data to third-party tools. Learn more and apply online in minutes at https://mercury.com/

Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(03:33) Sponsor: Mercury Command

(05:21) Daily drivers and MCP

(10:20) Benchmarking automation models

(18:01) Replacing no-code with code (Part 1)

(19:31) Sponsors: Athena | OutSystems

(23:02) Replacing no-code with code (Part 2)

(30:34) Navigating market competition (Part 1)

(34:01) Sponsor: Claude

(35:36) Navigating market competition (Part 2)

(39:30) Passive workflow discovery

(46:09) Internal AI transformation

(55:46) Managing tokens and slop

(01:03:37) Episode Outro

(01:05:59) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Anton Leicht, a fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and author of Threading the Needle, joins Nathan Labenz to explore how political and institutional power can be preserved as artificial intelligence advances. They discuss the strategic trade-offs of frontier training pauses, the hurdles facing industry self-regulation, and how middle powers can trade data center capacity and semiconductor leverage for model access. Ultimately, Leicht emphasizes that preventing permanent disempowerment and the monopolization of control by private labs or single governments is just as critical as addressing catastrophic model risks.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/the-balance-of-ai-power-anton-leicht-on-politics-pacing-deals-and-muddling-through-well/

Sponsors:

Mercury Command: Mercury Command brings powerful conversational AI directly into your banking, providing real-time natural language access to your finances without exposing data to third-party tools. Learn more and apply online in minutes at https://mercury.com/

Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(04:46) Sponsor: Mercury Command

(06:33) Assessing current AI dangers

(13:17) Feasibility of AI pauses (Part 1)

(21:33) Sponsors: Athena | OutSystems

(25:05) Feasibility of AI pauses (Part 2)

(31:01) AI and the nation-state (Part 1)

(35:11) Sponsor: Claude

(36:46) AI and the nation-state (Part 2)

(46:17) Oversight and US policy

(01:05:49) Data center buildout reality

(01:11:55) Europe and middle powers

(01:36:05) Geopolitical friction over Taiwan

(01:43:46) Lightning round and outlook

(02:05:25) Episode Outro

(02:08:54) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine the capabilities of GPT-6 Astra and the economic forces accelerating frontier artificial intelligence. Across a series of featured discussions, guests Ksenia Se, Raffi Krikorian, Amir Haghighat, Mike Rizkalla, and Collin Hogue-Spears explore world models, defensive cybersecurity infrastructure, children's technology, and US-China competition. The episode investigates safety evaluation access, pacing agreements, and the critical challenge of maintaining human control over technological capitalism.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-highlights-astra-as-agi-openai-s-pause-mythos-mozilla-human-agency-vs-technocapitalism/

Sponsors:

Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive

OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) The Astra weekend (Part 1)

(10:19) Sponsors: Athena | OutSystems

(13:50) The Astra weekend (Part 2)

(13:51) An alien mind

(19:43) Reassure and mislead (Part 1)

(25:07) Sponsor: Claude

(26:42) Reassure and mislead (Part 2)

(38:44) No adult in room

(52:24) The defender's ledger

(01:06:27) Toy without generative AI

(01:11:43) Nobody picks up phone

(01:18:45) Can we stand up

(01:37:30) Episode Outro

(01:40:05) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

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In this solo finale to his three-part series following two weeks in China, Nathan delivers a net assessment of Chinese AI capabilities and constraints ahead of dedicated US-China bilateral AI talks. He audits the impact of export controls, analyzes the perspective from Beijing, and outlines an actionable framework for a cooperative Pax Robotica. Nathan argues for joint compute initiatives, safety auditor standards, and conventions on autonomous weapons to keep tech trees entangled. Ultimately, he warns that pursuing an adversarial zero-sum race risks training frontier AI systems for conflict rather than the shared benefit of humanity.

For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:
https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/nathan-goes-to-china-3-us-china-relations-the-art-of-the-ai-deal-the-road-to-pax-robotica/

Sponsors:

Deepgram Flux TTS: Deepgram Flux TTS is a streaming text-to-speech model built for voice agents with natural tone, context awareness, and interruption handling. Try it free until September 12 at https://deepgram.com/keep-talking

Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) About the Episode

(06:11) Episode intro and recap

(08:56) The Pax Machina goal

(12:32) The Anthropic worldview (Part 1)

(16:50) Sponsors: Deepgram Flux TTS | Claude

(18:55) The Anthropic worldview (Part 2)

(18:56) Net assessment of China

(32:26) China's eternal 1991

(44:03) History of Chinese AI

(54:34) China's domestic constraints

(01:07:09) Century of humiliation narrative

(01:27:01) Signs of Chinese cooperation

(01:42:38) American state capacity lessons

(02:05:39) Evaluating AI export controls

(02:27:25) Hyperstitioning a summit deal

(02:44:28) Preserving mutual legibility

(03:01:12) Autonomous weapons convention

(03:09:33) Positive sum AI competition

(03:12:31) Episode Outro

(03:15:05) Outro

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai

Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast

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Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast

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