The Hoffman Podcast

“Hoffman is another place where truth resides, emerges deeper, and allows itself to flourish more in the world, in our world.” – Martin Rutte

International speaker, author, management consultant, and Hoffman Process grad Martin Rutte has lived a life rooted in knowing, on a deeper level, that we can achieve beyond what we believe is possible. In this powerful conversation with Sadie, Martin shares how his life of vision and purpose unfolded with each step taken. As Sadie highlights, the conversation circles the place where Spirit, truth, and an ‘already knowing‘ within each of us meet in something unnameable. This conversation guides us in how to embody and live this in the world.

Martin grew up in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Historically known as Canada’s industrial “Steeltown,” Martin shares that Hamilton had a conservative culture when he was young. At ten, he heard a message from within that set him on his life’s path: “You’re here to change the world.” He felt it was true, and didn’t know what it meant. No one around him spoke of vision or purpose, yet deep inside, he knew he would live a life of purpose.

Throughout his life, Martin met people who shared things he knew to be true within. These moments of truth guided him toward the life he envisioned, one step at a time. During his week at the Process, he realized that the truth emerges from within each of us. As we live this emergent truth from within, it flourishes into the world through the life path we take.

May this wise, generous, generative conversation inspire you to live a life beyond what you believe is possible.

Project Heaven on Earth:

Mid-conversation, Martin shares about “Project Heaven on Earth” and how it came to be. He asks Sadie the three questions he asks those he works with. As Sadie answers, you might consider your own answers. The invitation is to dive deeper into your vision of what heaven on earth can be.

https://youtu.be/Ey0NFV0uSO8

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More about Martin Rutte:

Martin Rutte is an international speaker, author, and management consultant. As President of Livelihood, a management consulting firm with offices in Ranchos De Taos, New Mexico, USA, and Charlottetown, Canada, he explores the deeper meaning of work and its contribution to society.

He has worked with organizations such as The World Bank, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Southern California Edison, Virgin Records, Esso Petroleum, and London Life Insurance, helping them broaden their outlook and position themselves for the future.

Martin and (his wife) Maida Rogerson

Martin has addressed the Corporate Leadership & Ethics Forum of The Harvard Business School, returning for four consecutive years as a keynote speaker. He co-founded and chaired the Board of Canada’s first academic Centre for Spirituality and the Workplace at the Sobey School of Business in Halifax. He is also a past member of the editorial board of The Journal of Management, Spirituality and Religion.

Martin co-authored the New York Times business bestseller Chicken Soup for the Soul at Work, which has sold over one million copies and is translated into 15 languages.

His newest book is Project Heaven on Earth: The 3 simple questions that will help you change the world … easily. This book unlocks your Soul’s longing for a world that works. It empowers a new story about what it means to be human and what it means to be humanity.

Martin will help you discover what Heaven on Earth is for you and what simple, easy, concrete action you can take in the next 24 hours to begin making that real.

http://www.projectheavenonearth.com/

http://www.martinrutte.com/

As mentioned in this episode:

Prince Edward Island, Canada
• Anne of Green Gables

Maida Rogerson:
Canadian actress, author, and public speaker. She is known for her work in television, film, and theater. Maida is also well known as a writer, seminar leader, and storyteller.

Martin shared this quote: “A man is someone who is true to himself.”

Post-Process Weekend:
The two days post-Process are a time for integrating the work of the previous seven days. Listen to our Post-Process Panel on the Hoffman Podcast: After the Process, With Kevin, Steve, and Zeina

Raz and Liza Ingrasci founded the Hoffman Institute Foundation.
Alongside his beloved wife Liza, Charles “Raz” Ingrasci was a guiding force in shaping Hoffman’s mission. Together, their leadership and devotion helped establish Hoffman as the transformative program and community it is today. Raz passed on December 31st, 2025.

Jack Canfield

The Transformational Leadership Council

Listen to Raz on the Hoffman Podcast.
• Raz Ingrasci: Husband, Father, Son
∗ Marissa & Raz Ingrasci: Spiritual Lineage & the Hoffman Process
• Ward Ashman & Raz Ingrasci: Hoffman & the Enneagram

Listen to Raz on the Oprah Podcast:
• Oprah on The Hoffman Process, How to Forgive Your Parents – And Yourself

Tocayo:
In Spanish, tocayo (masculine) or tocaya (feminine) means someone who shares your first name (a name twin or namesake). Pronunciation: toh-KAH-yoh (masculine) / toh-KAH-yah (feminine)

• Usage: If you meet someone named Carlos and your name is also Carlos, you can say, “¡Eres mi tocayo!” (“You’re my name twin!”). It is often used in a friendly or endearing way to create an instant connection.

• Origin: The word comes from the Classical Nahuatl word tōcāyoh (meaning “possessor of a name” or “one who has a name”), derived from tōcāitl

“It is possible to change. You don’t have to repeat all of those patterns. …You’re going to be happy, and it’s okay to be happy.” – Lecia King

During the Hoffman Process, therapist Lecia King found herself feeling settled, and learning that this ‘settledness’ is a quality of being of her Spiritual Self. Through the power of the Process, Lecia began to transform the pain of her past into a deep-seated connection to who she really is.

Years later, now both a seasoned therapist and Hoffman Process teacher, this settledness is omnipresent in Lecia’s life as she lives more and more from her Spiritual Self. You’ll feel and hear it in this conversation with host Sadie. You’ll also sense a quiet joy in Lecia.

Challenge and change run through Lecia’s life story. She experienced a “very chaotic upbringing.” She realized early on that she would have to create a stable life for herself as an adult. Lecia grieved for the child within her that never knew stability. And her adult self has done just that: created a stable life. In her twenties, Lecia bought her first home, determined never to be uprooted from home again. She did healing work around her eating disorders and past family dysfunction. She found healing in a women’s nature circle where she spent time fasting and in nature.

Lecia’s life story reflects a quiet persistence as she moved into adulthood and motherhood, and now moves into an empty nest filled with joy. It is inspirational to witness someone who has met life’s challenges and, through them, come to know and love herself. In teaching the Hoffman Process, Lecia now holds space for others to transform and create lasting change in their lives. In sharing her story here, Lecia offers us an existential possibility of hope and joy. We can transform the pain of our past into a life lived as who we really are. We get to be happy.

We hope you savor this inspiring conversation with Lecia and Sadie.

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Content Warning:

This episode mentions domestic violence, disordered eating, and suicidal feelings. Please use your discretion.

If you need support, call or text 988, the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, available 24/7 in the U.S.

If you need support with disordered eating, call the ANAD Eating Disorders Helpline toll-free at 1-888-375-7767.

More about Lecia King:

Lecia King began her Hoffman journey as a student in 2018. Wanting more of her new quality of Being (Spiritual Self), she was tempted to apply to become a teacher immediately after completing her Process. But with a full-time job and two kids to raise, it didn’t seem feasible. Instead, she applied for a sabbatical and spent the time interning at Hoffman, focusing on bringing the work to therapists. During this time, she realized she needed to commit to Hoffman teacher training to embody the work and bring it to others.

Lecia now works half-time as a Hoffman teacher and coach and half-time as a therapist in the student health center at a local community college. She brings 30 years of social work experience, including serving as the director for a shelter and transitional housing program for battered women and their children, and as the executive and clinical director for a non-profit serving women and teens with eating issues.

Lecia as a child

Lecia has provided social work services for an inpatient psychiatric unit, and co-created the first social work program in Romania after the fall of the communist regime. She has worked at the community college for 14 years, where she deeply appreciates the hugely diverse student population, the wide variety of issues people struggle with, and the ability to serve people regardless of their resources or ability to pay.

Whether providing therapy to students or teaching/coaching Hoffman students, Lecia is interested in others’ experiences facilitating growth, learning, and well-being. She brings compassion, empathy, creativity, enthusiasm, and care to her work and her life. Lecia lives in the North San Francisco Bay Area. She loves to hike, spend time with family and friends, and BE, preferably in nature.

As mentioned in this episode:

The Negative Love Syndrome:
• Read more about The Negative Love Syndrome in A Path to Personal Freedom & Love, written by Bob Hoffman.
• Listen to Hoffman teacher, Andy Milberg, on the Hoffman Podcast: Exploring the Negative Love Syndrome

Year-long Women’s Circle

http://Indeed.com – Job search site

Integration Weekend (Post Process Weekend)
• Listen to the Hoffman Podcast: After the Process, With Kevin, Steve, and Zeina

Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACA or ACoA)
• Now called Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families

I-Am-ness: Presence of the Spiritual Self

.”This is the most creative thing I’ve ever experienced. …I just thought this is so wonderful because I’m not being talked at. I am being engaged, and I am being invited into an experience of myself unlike I’ve ever had.” – Sonia Choquette

Globally celebrated spiritual teacher, intuitive guide, author, and Hoffman Advisory Council member, Sonia Choquette, came to the Process guided by her intuition. Deeply connected to Spirit from a very young age, Sonia came to the Process for relational reasons. She’d noticed too many relationship “collisions” in her marriage. Her family had Holocaust patterns, while her husband had other traumatic familial patterns. She intuitively knew the Process could help.

Sonia loved the Process. She found it the most creative thing she’d ever experienced, and her “soul loves creativity.” She especially loved that the Process engaged her and invited her into new experiences of herself she’d never known before.

After her Process, Sonia became friends with Raz, Liza, and the Ingrasci family. She realized she shared an uncommon worldview with Raz. “We are energetic spirits; we are having a physical experience. Raz and I just got that. We spoke Spirit as much as we spoke English.”

This conversation is brimming with spiritual guidance. Sonia has been teaching profound spiritual truths for over 50 years. She shares multiple tools to reconnect with your Spirit, drop from your head into your heart, and know if you’re speaking from your heart.

The Hoffman Institute is grateful to Sonia for her many years of service through our Hoffman Advisory Council. We hope you enjoy this wise and very practical episode with Sonia and Sadie.

https://youtu.be/PN1gAwrlF6w

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More about Sonia Choquette:

Sonia Choquette is a globally celebrated spiritual teacher, intuitive guide, and transformational author. For more than four decades, she has helped people trust themselves. She has supported them in following their inner guidance and living in alignment with who they truly are.

Sonia has authored 32 books, including the international bestsellers Trust Your Vibes, Ask Your Guides, and The Answer Is Simple. Her work has reached millions of people worldwide, making intuition practical, grounded, and accessible in everyday life. Through her books, teachings, live events, online programs, and global community, Sonia shows people how to move beyond fear, overthinking, and external conditioning and reconnect with the clear, steady voice of Spirit within.

Through the GIFT CERTIFICATION FOR INTUITIVE AND ENERGETIC ALIGNMENT, a professional training, Sonia prepares coaches to recognize intuitive and energetic signals, distinguish true guidance from fear and emotional reactivity, and help others return to authentic alignment.

Known for her warmth, humour, honesty, and direct approach, Sonia brings spirituality down to earth. She shares practical tools that people can use in their relationships, work, decisions, and everyday lives. Her mission is to lead a worldwide intuition revolution—restoring people to their inner authority and empowering them to live with greater confidence, freedom, creativity, connection, and joy.

Find out more about Sonia:

• Learn more about Sonia at SoniaChoquete.net
∗ Follow Sonia on Instagram: @soniachoquette⁠
• Discover more on YouTube: @SoniaChoquette⁠
∗ Check out Sonia on Facebook: @TrustYourVibes

As mentioned in this episode:

Raz Ingrasci’s Celebration of Life
• Listen to Raz on the Hoffman Podcast: Husband, Father, Son

Ingrasci family:
• Raz and Liza: Founders of the Hoffman Institute Foundation.
∗ Marissa Ingrasci: Hoffman teacher and coach.
∗ Mike Ingrasci – Director of Marketing, Hoffman Institute Foundation Podcast.

Transformational Leadership Council

Sonia’s Podcast, with daughters Sabrina and Sonia Tully: It’s All Related.

The Hoffman Process Book by Tim Laurence.
• Listen to Tim on the Hoffman Podcast: A Vale of Tears and a Hill of Laughter.

Hoffman Q2 Intensive

Sonia’s latest book, Soul Mastery: 22 Lessons to Reinvent Your Life

“You can see their eyes brighter, and they finally feel like, Oh, there’s a lot of possibility … to be authentic self. That’s so powerful and meaningful for me to see that happening in China.“ – Jessie Feng

Master Certified Coach, Hoffman Process teacher, and Director of Faculty, Hoffman China, Jessie Feng joins Sadie for an inspiring conversation about growth, possibility, and healing generational patterns.

Although Jessie completed her Process in early 2025, her Process story really begins in 2011. Her relationship with her daughter was strained, so Jessie began coaching training, sure the issue was with her daughter. Many of us think similarly, until we begin our own inner work. Through coaching training and the Process, Jessie underwent a profound transformation. Her awareness grew and sense of self clarified. Her understanding of relationships, and why and how we can struggle in them, did too.

As an integral part of the new Hoffman Institute China, Jessie now teaches the Process in China. Very aware of the traditions between parents and children in her country, she shares how remarkable it is to witness her students realize that long-standing traditions passed down generation to generation are simply patterns. Limiting patterns that do not serve us can be transformed into healthy, freeing alternatives. Jessie explains how remarkable it is that her students now see possibility in their lives. They now realize they can be authentic in their lives and relationships. In doing so, they find compassion and love for themselves and their parents.

This conversation helps illuminate how the Process works in diverse cultures globally. The Process supports each person in finding liberation from limitation and compassion for themselves and those who raised them.

Today, Jessie and her daughter have a great relationship. We hope you enjoy this powerful conversation with Jessie and Sadie.

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More about Jessie Feng:

Jessie Feng is a Master Certified Coach (MCC). She holds an Advanced Certification in Team Coaching (ACTC) credential with the International Coaching Federation. Jessie also holds a Master’s degree in Marketing from the University of New South Wales in Australia and a Master’s degree in Applied Psychology from the California Institute of Integral Studies in the United States.

For more than two decades, Jessie has worked in leadership development, team coaching, and personal transformation, supporting individuals and teams as they navigate complexity, relationships, and change. Having lived and worked in Germany, the United States, Australia, and China, she brings a deeply cross-cultural perspective to her work and a lifelong curiosity about one essential question: How can we live more authentically?

Jessie believes that every person possesses innate wholeness, inner wisdom, and a unique path through life. Her own experience with the Hoffman Process became a significant turning point. It helped her see the patterns that had shaped her life more clearly and opened the possibility of living with greater freedom and choice. This experience eventually led her to become deeply involved in bringing the Hoffman Process to China and developing its teaching locally.

In her work, Jessie often encounters the patterns people have learned to protect themselves—control, anger, pleasing, perfectionism, shame, and fear. Yet what moves her most is what emerges beneath those patterns: something softer, more alive, and deeply human.

Again and again, she is reminded that beyond our different identities, cultures, and life stories, we share a profound longing for love, connection, freedom, and to be truly seen.

For Jessie, growth is not about becoming a “better” version of ourselves. It is about finding the courage to become more fully who we already are—and trusting that beneath our patterns, there is love, light, and life.

Discover more about Hoffman China:

• Hoffman China
• Hoffman China’s The Journey of Life podcast series

Jessie (3rd from right) and fellow Hoffman China teachers at a recent Process (including US teacher, Danny Kim).

As mentioned in this episode:

Co-Active Training Institute

Vicious Cycles

A little more about the Internship portion of Hoffman teacher training:

Phase 2 (of 3) of Hoffman teacher training is the Internship Program, where learning moves into real experience. During this phase, a teacher candidate begins working alongside certified Hoffman teachers, observing and participating in actual Hoffman Processes. Over several internships, the teacher candidate works directly with students, teaches presentations, facilitates experiences, and gradually takes on more responsibility, with guidance and feedback from an experienced training teacher.

Internship is more than learning teaching skills. It is a time when something deeper begins to develop. Through continued immersion in the Hoffman Process, teacher candidates become more aware of patterns, more attuned to what is happening within themselves and with others, and increasingly connected to their own intuition and spiritual awareness. They are learning not only how to teach the Process, but how to embody it. With experience, practice, mentorship, and reflection, the teacher candidate grows into the presence and confidence needed to lead a Process.

Phase 2 is the pathway to certification as a Hoffman Process teacher, a meaningful step in becoming a teacher who can truly hold the space for others.

“The experience of the Process was life in full, in its magnitude, in seven days.” – Natasia Schumacher

Professional Certified Coach, Certified Emotional Intelligence Practitioner, and athlete Natasia Schumacher arrived at White Sulphur Springs to take the Hoffman Process in 2018. She says, “I didn’t choose the Process; it chose me.”

As Natasia poured over her Process homework, this question stopped her: “What is your relationship to spirituality?” Eight years ago, she had no idea what spirituality or spirit meant. Her response to the question? “None.” Looking back, Natasia saw that this was the first indicator of where the Process would lead her.

In Natasia’s Process, she had a profound realization that who she thought she was has never been who she is. Her visceral experience of the Process felt like a turbulent storm: deeply uncomfortable, confronting, and exhausting, while also deeply loving. Natasia shares stories of the profound emotional, intellectual, somatic, and spiritual insights, epiphanies, and transformation during and after her Process.

Many grads discover after the Process that even though they have changed, the people in their lives have not. For Natasia, this dynamic provided more opportunities to release patterns and deepen her sense of who she really is. She describes how she navigated this change with both her husband and mother. Natasia’s ability to articulate what happened is insightful and helpful information. She also found, post-Process, that she needed to connect with the parts of her who weren’t sober. Today, she has been sober for many years.

Natasia speaks of and lives with love and reverence for her true self, her Spirit. As she says, her Spirit “is me.” We hope this articulate, insightful, deeply spiritual conversation inspires you.

Follow Natasia on Instagram and LinkedIn.

Content Warning:

This episode is marked explicit for language and may not be suitable for children. Please use your discretion.

https://youtu.be/TAtO34Z9EWc

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More about Natasia Schumacher:

Natasia Schumacher is the founder of Shift & Play, a Montréal-based self-leadership practice that helps people stay connected to themselves when it matters most — through change, uncertainty, and discomfort.

By her 30s, Natasia had built a life that looked successful from the outside. She held senior leadership roles, carried significant responsibility, and became very good at being who she thought she needed to be. Internally, she was struggling. She was performing life, moving through roles and expectations while becoming increasingly disconnected from herself.

In theHoffman Process, she confronted the gap between the person she presented to the world and who she was underneath it all. It became part of a larger reckoning that included sobriety, motherhood, career reinvention, entrepreneurship, and learning to hear her own voice, trust it, and act from it.

Celebrating Natasia as a child

That journey informs her work today.

A Professional Certified Coach (PCC), Certified Emotional Intelligence Practitioner (EQ-i 2.0), lululemon ambassador, and athlete, Natasia brings mind, heart, and body into her work. Through one-on-one coaching and designed group experiences, she works with high performers who are skilled at achieving, performing, and meeting expectations, but have lost touch with themselves along the way.

Movement is woven into this approach. Natasia believes the body often reveals what the mind has learned to override. She uses movement to help people notice their patterns, meet discomfort, and practice making conscious choices in real time. Currently training for and leading a team through her second 650-kilometre ultra relay, she lives the same practice she invites others into.

For Natasia, self-leadership isn’t something you master. It’s the practice of staying with yourself in discomfort long enough to hear what’s true — and having the courage to choose from there. Follow Natasia on Instagram and LinkedIn.

As mentioned in this episode:

Read about the Hoffman Retreat Site at White Sulphur Springs, CA.

Homework:
The Process homework (or pre-work) takes approximately 10 hours to complete. Filling out this pre-work is really the beginning of your Process experience.

Post-Process weekend:
Listen to our Hoffman teacher panel on the Hoffman Podcast: S10e7: Our Post-Process Panel – After the Process, With Kevin, Steve, and Zeina

“Post-Process… I could see those things differently. I could see them from the bigger view. And I could also feel how good I felt and how proud I was of myself. I knew that I could trust myself.“ – Kari Kuwahara

Kari Kuwahara came to the Hoffman Process knowing the timing was right. After a traumatic life event triggered old traumas and buried feelings, Kari was ready to do the deep work to heal her pain from her relationship with her mother. The Process offered her a way to resolve the pain of her past. Kari was ready for the freedom to come.

Before we dive into emotional terrain, we often fear the power of the feelings we will meet and the unknown chaos we might encounter within. The Process’s cathartic work and safe environment supported Kari as she went deep into her inner world. Her teacher gave her loving guidance when he said, “We’ve got you.” As Kari describes, she realized that she wasn’t doing it alone and that there were “guardrails in place.” Through the expression work, she finally released her anger. Intense, overwhelming grief that had been buried under her anger then flooded in. Kari “was finally able to go there and just let it out.” She realized that this release was, in itself, what she’d been searching for.

After the cathartic expression, Kari journaled. Reading a sentence she’d written back to herself, Kari reached a powerful understanding. Speaking about her mother, she’d written, “I can’t fathom the pain her anger wouldn’t let her feel.” In experiencing the depth of her own pain under her anger, Kari saw her mother. In seeing her mother, Kari saw herself. This is a profound example of the power in healing negative love.

Through her courageous surrender to the Process, Kari found freedom from the pain of her past. We hope this powerful conversation with Kari and Drew moves and inspires you.

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More about Kari Kuwahara:

Kari’s childhood photo

Kari Kuwahara has a diverse background in the food world. She is a chef focused on health-supportive cooking, a culinary event producer, and a retail program and project manager.

Her path has never been entirely linear. After studying at UC Santa Barbara and Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, Kari explored several career directions before a family member’s serious illness shifted her perspective and sparked a deeper interest in healing foods, nutrition, and health. That spark grew, and she enrolled at the Natural Gourmet Institute in New York, with little idea of what a career on the other side might look like. That leap became a turning point.

What began as a job to gain experience in a natural-foods grocery store quickly became a leadership position. At the same time, she stepped into a separate role producing culinary demonstrations for nationally recognized chefs at a large-scale food and wine festival. Driven by curiosity and a desire to grow, she joined a national grocery retailer in a larger regional role, where she developed culinary programs, menus, recipes, venues, and operational systems across the region.

Kari and her partner, Angela

Eventually, Kari moved to Seattle, where she lives today. After several intense years navigating the grocery industry through the COVID era and leading her teams through a large restructuring, she stepped away from that role in search of something that felt more aligned.

Life soon brought another profound shift.

Kari’s partner was diagnosed with cancer, beginning a three-year journey through treatment, recovery, uncertainty, and ultimately, healing. Drawing on her earlier studies in healing foods, nutrition, and health, Kari supported her partner throughout this journey.

But the healing extended beyond the physical. There was also a need to heal emotionally—not only from the toll of her partner’s illness, but from experiences rooted in her own childhood. She and her partner both attended the Hoffman Process in the spring of 2026. Through all her roles, Kari remains deeply curious and committed to nurturing ourselves, our bodies, and our relationships.

Follow Kari on Instagram.

As mentioned in this episode:

Post-Process work:
After completing the Process on Friday, students spend Saturday and Sunday integrating their week.
• Listen to our Post-Process Panel on the Hoffman Podcast: After the Process, With Kevin, Steve, and Zeina

Quad Check:
A practice that supports you in integrating and honoring all four parts of your Quadrinity: Spiritual Self, Intellect, Emotional Self, and your Body.

Instagram Lives:
Join our virtual community Quad-Check at 8:00 am PT on Instagram.

Join our daily Appreciation and Gratitude practice on Instagram at 6:00 pm PT. You’ll find that the Appreciation and Gratitude practice is a nourishing way to reflect on your day. This practice will support your Spiritual Self’s natural desire to appreciate and give thanks for all that life brings you.

Our Instagram Quad-checks and Appreciation and Gratitude practices are open to everyone.

“Over the past few years, I’ve dug deeper into connecting with the universe, connecting with nature, knowing that I am supported by forces outside of me.” – Suha Patel

Suha Patel arrived at the Hoffman Process eight years ago. Her mantra coming in was, “I want to know who I am. I want to love myself. I want to know what I want. And I want to be able to ask for it.” Over those seven days and the eight years since, Suha has worked hard to know the answers to her questions and live into what she has longed for.

Suha as a child

Suha spent the majority of her life in her head, problem-solving everything, including herself. But knowing and loving oneself requires more than intellect. During her Process, the Quadcheck, a Hoffman tool, helped Suha discover her whole self. She dove into her whole self when she discovered her Quadrinity: intellect, body, emotional self, and Spiritual Self. Suha describes coming to know a whole inner community within herself, including her dear inner child. When she talks about her inner child, her voice lights up with joy. By spending time with her inner child, she realized why she stayed small and hadn’t stood up for what she wanted.

For Suha, one of the great gifts of taking the Process has been a deepened spirituality. Growing up in India, she’d never been to a temple or sought out God. At Hoffman, she connected to something greater than herself – the Universe, nature, and the spiritual forces that support her. By the end of her week at Hoffman, Suha realized the first item in her mantra: to know who she is. She found she knew herself in new and beautiful ways. Asking for what she wants has taken longer, but Suha is steadily working toward fulfilling her beautiful mantra. We hope you enjoy this joyful conversation with Suha and Sadie.

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More about Suha Patel:

Suha Patel is a global business leader, mentor, and lifelong student of human behavior whose journey has spanned four continents, executive leadership, and deep personal transformation.

As a biotech executive, she spent decades leading in high-performance environments while quietly believing that staying small and silent was the safest way to move through the world. Her path into self-awareness, nervous system healing, and inner-child work has radically changed the way she understands leadership, relationships, identity, and emotional well-being.

Today, Suha is passionate about exploring the invisible patterns that shape our lives – the survival strategies we mistake for personality, and the ways unresolved emotional experiences quietly influence how we love, lead, speak, and connect. Through honest storytelling and deep reflection, she brings a grounded, compassionate perspective to conversations about healing, self-awareness, emotional regulation, and what it truly means to feel safe enough to become oneself.

Follow Suha on Instagram.

As mentioned in this episode:

Hoffman Q2 Intensive: Our three-day graduate program

The Enneagram (of Personality)

Undefended Love by Jett Psaris

The QuadCheck (Quadrinity Check-in):

A Hoffman tool done daily to check in with all four parts of the Quadrinity: the intellect, the emotional self, the body, and the Spiritual Self.

Instagram Lives:

We host two Instagram Lives daily.

¤ Join our virtual community Quad-Check at 8:00 am PT on Instagram. The Quad Check practice supports you in integrating and honoring your Quadrinity: Spiritual Self, Intellect, Emotional Self, and your Body.

¤ Join our daily Appreciation and Gratitude practice at 6:00 pm PT on Instagram. The Appreciation and Gratitude practice is a beautiful way to reflect on your day. This practice supports your Spiritual Self’s natural desire to appreciate and give thanks for all that life brings you.

Elevators –

17:15 – 18:31 Suha describes what an elevator is and what happened for her when she did them at the Process.

The Hoffman App

After completing a Hoffman course, the Hoffman App can support you as you continue this journey, today and far into the future. The app offers guidance, practices, and visualizations to inspire and help you achieve your personal goals. We like to think of this app as “Hoffman in your pocket.” The Hoffman App is available at the App Store.

Find out more about the creation of Hoffman’s app with Kevin Eyres, Hoffman Teacher, on the Hoffman Podcast: Beyond the Intellect.

The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life, by David Brooks.

“Whether you did the Process with someone in your cohort or you find someone at a coffee shop with a Quadrinity sticker on their water bottle, there’s sort of that immediate recognition of, ‘Hello, another me, myself! Hello, a kindred spirit!‘” – Jasin Deegan

Hoffman Alumni Department Manager Jasin Deegan completed the Hoffman Process at White Sulphur Springs in 2019. Just a few months later, he joined the Hoffman Institute in his first role. Jasin has a hunger to serve others. It’s the nature of his Spirit. And he loves the Process. Six years on, it’s a beautiful match that now serves the global Hoffman community.

Before taking the Process, Jasin completed many personal transformational experiences. He arrived at the Process wanting “all the self-help resources” so he could “finally be this optimal person of service in the world.“ In his Process, he realized this was his own form of Do-Be-Have, trying to find his true Self by collecting more and more tools and resources. In an epiphany, Jasin realized he already was this “person of service.” It was simply time to be himself in a role that brought him joy and purpose. This seed of understanding was planted in his Process. It has steadily grown within him over the past six years at Hoffman.

And now, with ith Jasin at the helm of the Alumni Department, the alumni department team has created the new Hoffman Alumni Home and Hoffman Alumni Circle. These online community spaces are where we can gather as a global alumni community of all Hoffman Programs. As Jasin says, there’s “an immediate recognition” when we meet another Hoffman friend, a kindred spirit.

We hope you enjoy this warm conversation with Jasin and Sadie.

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More about Jasin Deegan:

Jasin Deegan has served as a transformational facilitator and guide for over fifteen years. He is dedicated to serving others on their healing and transformational journeys and is passionate about how peak experiences expand human consciousness.

Jasin completed the Hoffman Process in December of 2019 and has been part of the Hoffman Institute since June 2020. Now serving as Alumni Department Manager, Jasin passionately supports Hoffman graduates who continue to do their post-Process work. As Alumni Department Manager, Jasin has led the development and design of Hoffman Alumni Home. This online community centralizes graduate resources and provides a space where Hoffman graduates can connect and build community.

Before joining the Hoffman Institute, Jasin was a Shamanic Breathwork facilitator, using breathwork, ritual and ceremony, and contemplative practices to support others along their transformational and healing journeys. Jasin is trained and certified in Shamanic Breathwork through Venus Rising Association for Transformation. There, he cultivated his passion and sacred purpose for transformational service work through these direct studies.

Jasin is pursuing his degree in psychology from San Francisco State University and lives with his husband in San Francisco, California.

As mentioned in this episode:

HOFFMAN ALUMNI HOME
https://alumni.hoffmaninstitute.org/feed
Hoffman Alumni Home is a dedicated space for Hoffman graduates to access alumni resources, connect to the community, and continue engaging with the work beyond their foundational Hoffman program.

HOFFMAN ALUMNI CIRCLE
https://alumni.hoffmaninstitute.org/hoffman-alumni-circle
Hoffman Alumni Circle is a membership designed to support graduates’ continued growth, providing exclusive access to master classes and visualizations, teacher-led virtual sessions, early access to and discounts on graduate programming, and more. This paid membership lives within Hoffman Alumni Home and helps graduates sustain and deepen their Hoffman practice.

Liza Ingrasci, Past CEO and President
Liza and her late husband, Raz Ingrasci, founded the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Liza served as CEO and President for many years. She is now retired.

The Ceremony of Integration Dinner:
Before COVID, Hoffman Process graduates could attend this dinner held on the Thursday night of each Process to support the current students on their evening of integration. There is no longer a COI dinner in the US; however, it is still in practice in other countries.

Bob Hoffman
“Fire your therapist and go live your life.”

The Hoffman Q2 Intensive

Hoffman Webclasses
Hosted and led by Hoffman teachers via Zoom, our live, interactive webclasses cover a wide variety of topics, including tools and practices from the Process and Hoffman Essentials.

Graduate Groups

Coaching Programs

The Hoffman Quadrinity Symbol

What is Breathwork?
Jasin is trained to do this breathwork.

Nita Gage, Hoffman Teacher.
• Listen to Nita on the Hoffman Podcast – A Courageous Ripple

Be-Do-Have vs. Do-Have-Be:
Be-Do-Have brings us the life we long for. We get the life we are taught we should strive for when we Do-Have-Be.

Dharma

“Maybe there’s a person who’s written a book, or a professor who’s done some kind of research, and then they build a curriculum based on that perfectly wonderful approach to things. But that is not the Hoffman Process, right? Because, really, Bob Hoffman understood things more intuitively. …This is a wisdom tradition program.“ – Jo Mattoon

Welcome to season 13 of Love’s Everyday Radius. Our guest is beloved Hoffman Process teacher, Jo Mattoon. In this fascinating conversation, Jo shares the ongoing changes happening within Hoffman Institute Foundation and the new Hoffman centers worldwide. Behind the scenes, Hoffman teachers and staff work to support the change and growth needed to meet the desires of those ready to take the Processand of our alumni.

You’ll hear stories about Bob Hoffman and his collaborators who supported him in creating the Process. As Programs Manager, Jo shares how the Process training guide is continually updated while remaining true to its roots. And in the stories about the new Hoffman Center in China, you’ll discover how the wisdom tradition at the heart of the Process can support different cultures worldwide.

From the growth and development of our teaching team, to the occasional updates integrated into the Process, to our new alumni portal, Hoffman Alumni Home, the Hoffman Institute continues to fulfill Bob Hoffman’s vision of “world peace one person at a time.” Hoffman International continues to grow its capacity to offer the Process around the world and shepherd serious change and transformation in those who attend through the opening of new centers around the world.

At the center of everything Hoffman does are the deep roots of wisdom that have grounded the Process since its earliest inception. Deep roots support new strong shoots. We hope you enjoy this grounded, wise conversation.

https://youtu.be/F9iq_XheMDM

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More about Jo Mattoon:

Jo and friends in the Swiss Alps

Jo Mattoon holds a B.A. in the Humanities and a Master’s in Public Administration. Her first career was as a Human Resources executive; her second career was as an executive coach/leadership trainer. She has now found her true purpose in teaching/coaching for the Hoffman Process.

In addition to teaching and coaching, Jo leads the Programs Team for Hoffman Institute Foundation (HIF). The team is responsible for the development and upkeep of all of HIF’s program curriculum, including the Process and alumni offerings.

A fourth-generation Coloradan, Jo loves travel, learning, finding the humor in life, coyotes, the arts, and tasty food. You can find out more about Jo by following her on Instagram.

As mentioned in this episode:

Hoffman Process Canada venue in Calgary, Alberta: Sanctum

Hoffman Center, China
• Discover more about China Hoffman: Hoffman Process® Launches in China.
• Honoring the parents is a cultural value in China:
“Filial piety is the virtue of exhibiting love and respect for one’s parents, elders, and ancestors…” Read more…

Jo Mattoon and Yifeng enjoying tea in China. Yifeng is the logistics/IT/everything else man for Hoffman China.

Hoffman International
• Hoffman International Conference at Hoffman Institute, Germany.
• 17 Hoffman Centers in 14 countries worldwide.

Hoffman teachers & staff mentioned concerning Hoffman China:
¤ Crystal Jenkins, Hoffman teacher and Director of Teacher Training.
• Matt Brannagan, Hoffman teacher and CEO – Listen to Matt on the Hoffman Podcast.
¤ Kevin Eyres, Hoffman teacher – Listen to Kevin on the Hoffman Podcast.
• Michelle Smith – Hoffman logistics.

Bob Hoffman, Founder of the Hoffman Process.

Claudio Naranjo, Chilean psychiatrist and pioneer in integrating psychotherapy and spiritual traditions.

Raz Ingrasci, beloved Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation.
• Listen to Raz on the Hoffman Podcast

Andy Milberg, a beloved Hoffman teacher.
• Listen to Andy on the Hoffman Podcast
• Listen to Andy talking about the Negative Love Syndrome on the Hoffman Podcast

Hoffman Programs Team:
• Jo Mattoon – Programs Manager since 2022.
¤ Shawn McAndrew – Hoffman Editor and Programs Specialist.
• Jason Beegle – Hoffman Process Teacher.
¤ Jess Zimerman – Hoffman Process Teacher.

Jasin Deegan – Alumni Department Manager and creator of Hoffman Alumni Home

HOFFMAN ALUMNI HOME:
Hoffman Alumni Home is a dedicated space for Hoffman graduates to access alumni resources, connect to the community, and continue engaging with the work beyond their foundational Hoffman program.

Hoffman Tools mentioned:

¤ The Cycle of Transformation:

https://youtu.be/EIKfjNdpgsk?si=Sl8B_9hJpTI7aib8

Self-Compassion & Kristin Neff
Listen to Kristin Neff on The Hoffman Podcast
Kristin says that compassion has three components: kindness, mindfulness, and humanity. “Compassion is grounded in a sense of shared humanity.” At its core, compassion is the understanding that we are doing the best we can, moment to moment. That we are human beings. We are part of a much larger whole. Moment by moment, we are doing the best we can, learning and trying with care and love. If we learn this, things become much easier to deal with.

Kristin also writes about Fierce Self-Compassion, as diagrammed below.

“If we imagine fear as this tight fist that says, I’m not going to let go, I need to keep you safe, love comes in as just this warm hug, and it’s like, It’s all right, sweetheart, I’ve got you, you don’t have to hold this burden anymore. And the fear doesn’t want to do this…. It is doing it because it does not believe there is another path for you in order to survive or get your needs met.” – Cory Muscara

Cory and Drew

Cory Muscara

Former monk and down-to-earth spiritual teacher Cory Muscara wraps up Season 12 with a powerful exploration of the lived human experience. Cory is not a graduate of the Hoffman Process, but he has recommended it to many and plans on attending in the near future. The ethos of his work blends beautifully with that of the Process.

After a painful relationship breakup in his twenties, Cory began to meditate as a way to support himself. Realizing he wanted to go deeper into meditation, he headed to a monastery in Burma for a 6-month meditation retreat.

Truly, it is hard to summarize this conversation. Like life, it must be experienced. You can feel the invitation to soften when in Cory’s presence as he articulates the process of internal healing and self-compassion.

Later in the conversation, Drew mentions that a Process is completing just down the hill. He asks Cory what he might tell them. Cory offers a compassionate response to them and ultimately to all of us. He shares that leaving a retreat such as the Process and heading back into life offers us the opportunity to continue the work to heal, realizing that life is the meditation cushion. Life is where the ‘work’ continues. It is also where love can blossom with more ease and grace for ourselves and others.

We hope you enjoy this wise and compassionate conversation with Cory and Drew.

We’ll see you again in late August when we launch season 13. Thanks for listening and watching. We appreciate you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgf3BpOFloY

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More about Cory Muscara:

Cory Muscara is a former monk, host of the Practicing Human podcast, and bestselling author of the book Stop Missing Your Life. With over 1.5MM followers across his social media channels, Cory has gained popularity for his down-to-earth teachings on mindfulness, wellbeing, and mental health.

Cory has taught mindful leadership at Columbia University, is an instructor in Positive Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania, and, for the last decade, has offered mindfulness keynotes, workshops, and retreats around the world, helping people find peace and transformation in a chaotic world. Cory’s meditations have been heard more than 50 million times in over 150 countries. His goal is to share wisdom teachings in a practical and accessible way.

Discover more about Cory here and find resources here. Follow Cory on Instagram and LinkedIn.

As mentioned in this episode:

The monastery Cory resided at is Panditarama Hse Main Gon Forest Meditation Center in Burma.

Cory’s teacher,Sayadaw U Pandita

Sayadaw means “venerable teacher.”

Vipassana Meditation.
• Vipassana means to “see things as they really are.”
• Vipassana meditation is one of India’s most ancient meditation techniques.

Walking meditation:
• Thich Nhat Hanh on How to Take a Mindful Walk

Attunement

Internal Family Systems (IFS)
• IFS Model, Parts, and Protective Patterns
• Richard Schwartz – Listen to Richard on the Hoffman Podcast: IFS & the Unburdening of Self

The productivity tool Cory mentioned is ToDoist.

C.A.R.E. – Connect. Appreciate. Reveal. Empathize.
19:44 (video), 18:47 (audio)

Two levels of pain: Primary and Secondary pain
37:09 (video), 34:40 (audio)

Cory’s episode is the first one we filmed at our new Hoffman Podcast Studio at Santa Sabina.
We celebrated this inaugural episode with a crew photo.

Drew Horning – Host, Cory Muscara – Guest, Julie Daley – Executive Producer, Mike Ingrasci – Director of Marketing, outside the new studio at Hoffman Retreat Center, Santa Sabina.

“It was this conversation between three generations — but I was the only one who could speak. Someone wise told me to recognize the gifts that come with change. That was really a gift. There’s a connection there across generations. And that’s really what Hoffman does.”
– Mike Ingrasci

Drew and Mike/Hoffman Podcast Studio

Hoffman’s Director of Marketing, Mike Ingrasci, sits down with Drew to talk marketing, brand, and his Hoffman experience. The son of Raz and Liza Ingrasci, founders of the Institute, Mike’s experience of Hoffman goes way back. He shares, “I think that I got Hoffman a bit through osmosis, whether it was like whispers in the house, teachers who came to visit at dinner, just the way in which my parents raised us as children. …They really let us be kids, and they were protective of that, because they had done the Process, and they knew what that meant.”

Raz, Mike, and Leo

Since Raz’s passing, Mike has reflected on the gifts that come with change. His friend suggested this as a way through the tough time ahead. Between the day Raz passed away, Dec 31, 2025, and the day of his Celebration of Life in March, Mike and Sara needed to take turns putting Leo to bed. Leo was going through a stage where he didn’t want to be left alone. So every other evening, Mike would lie on the floor by Leo, writing into his Notes app on his phone. One night, he realized that there were three generations linked – father, son, grandson – and only one of them – Mike – could speak. He continued to write the words from this generational connection, eventually sharing them with the over 1500 friends and family gathered. As Mike shares, this is a cornerstone of what Hoffman is about.

Aligning and refining Hoffman’s Brand:

As Director of Marketing, one of Mike’s goals is to align and refine Hoffman’s brand to accurately reflect the decades of powerful transformational experiences of well over 100,000 Process graduates. When young, Mike had a hard time knowing how to talk about the Process. He knew his parents were ‘helping people,’ and that they loved and wholeheartedly believed in the Process. Once Mike took the Process in 2009, he understood, as a lived experience, what he could never conceptualize. And now, it is perfect that he is the guide for this elevation of Hoffman’s brand into something that reflects what it is and makes it welcoming, understandable, and reflective of its organic coolness. Armed with a mood board, Instagram, and a lifetime surrounded by Hoffman, Mike is crafting an ever-evolving invitation into the profound beauty and magic of the Hoffman Process.

For Mike, Brand = Promise + Experience + Reputation. At Hoffman, these three things have always been incredibly strong. The Process delivers on its promise, the experience is transformative, and the reputation speaks for itself. Mike’s approach isn’t about changing any of that…it’s about building the world around it: creating an ecosystem that feels thoughtful, elevated, and welcoming for both people discovering Hoffman for the first time and graduates who continue to engage with it for years. His goal is simple: to make every touchpoint reflect the integrity of the Process, and elevate how Hoffman is experienced and perceived while remaining true to the work itself.

We hope you feel the warmth and care of this invitation and conversation.

https://youtu.be/OlvZy60Vjkc

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Listen on Spotify

More about Mike Ingrasci:

Liza, Mike, Raz, and Marissa

Long before joining the Hoffman Institute as Director of Marketing, Mike Ingrasci was embraced by the Process. His parents, Raz and Liza Ingrasci, served as its stewards for decades. Hoffman was woven into the fabric of Mike’s childhood.

Mike earned a BFA from USC’s School of Cinematic Arts before beginning his career as Director of Video at Rock ‘n’ Roll Fantasy Camp. He joined Barack Obama’s historic 2008 presidential campaign as an intern, then became a key member of the 2012 Obama campaign’s Chicago-based video team. He produced content for the President throughout his successful re-election campaign. This experience reinforced Mike’s belief in the power of storytelling to move people and create change.

Leo, Mike, Sara Ingrasci

Over twelve years, Mike helped build John Elliott into one of the world’s most respected independent fashion brands. He led sales and brand marketing while helping shape its creative voice. During Mike’s tenure, the brand earned accolades, including GQ’s Best New Menswear Designer, presented runway shows in New York and Paris, and collaborated with globally recognized brands Nike, Converse, Gap, and more. That experience shaped Mike’s approach to marketing: the best stories don’t sell — they connect.

Although Mike grew up around Hoffman, the Process itself remained unknown until he attended in 2009. His biggest takeaway? While many of us spend our lives searching for love outside ourselves, we’re ultimately looking for the ability to give more love — and the openness to receive it. This realization underscores Mike’s work, relationships, approach to fatherhood, and the stories he tells.

Mike lives in Northern California with his wife, Sara, and their two-year-old son, Leonardo “Leo” James. Leo’s middle name honors Raz, whose lifelong dedication to the human potential movement inspires Mike’s work and belief in the transformative power of the Process.

Discover more:

Follow Mike on Instagram and Facebook.

As mentioned in this episode:

Raz and Liza Ingrasci, Founders of the Hoffman Institute Foundation
• Liza is the former CEO and President. Raz was a Hoffman teacher and the former Chairman of Hoffman International. Listen to Raz on the Hoffman Podcast: Husband, Father, Son
• Liza and Raz Ingrasci’s stated mission: “Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love in themselves, in each other, and in the world.”

Mike filming during the Obama campaign.
Mike was drawn to the message of hope and change.

Oprah and Raz on the Oprah Podcast

Maria Shriver shares her Process experience on the Oprah Podcast.

Hoffman on Instagram:
Daily 8 am PT Quad checks and 6 pm PT Appreciation and Gratitude posts

Inside(r) Baseball

New Age

Hoffman Process Scholarships

Ongoing Hoffman programs:
The Q2 three-day intensive: Beyond Mom and Dad
Webclasses
One-day Refreshers

The iPhone Notes App

The Ingrasci Family photo, Thanksgiving, 2025

Charles “Raz” James Ingrasci Obituary

Video recording of Charles “Raz” Ingrasci Celebration of Life, March 14, 2026

“Look at the hoop, close your eyes, and think of something you love, and it will go through.” – Raz Ingrasci

“Love is a renewable resource.” – Raz Ingrasci

“There was something about the Process that really allowed me to understand that there’s also a lot of healing that comes from pleasure and play and connection, and to really disentangle the parts of me that were so attached to being a sufferer, to being someone who struggled.” – Sara Bissell Rubin

Sadie and Sara at the Hoffman Podcast Studio, Santa Sabina

Medical Sociologist and Hoffman Process grad, Sara Bissell Rubin, holds a PhD in the neuroscience of pain and is a chronic pain educator. Sara joins Sadie to talk about the physical and emotional experience of pain, the science behind pain, and her experience in the Process as someone who lives with a chronic pain condition.

Special note: Sara’s video episode is one of the first recorded in our new Hoffman Podcast Studio at Santa Sabina, our new retreat site. So, welcome, Sara, and welcome all to our new podcast studio home.

This conversation is a warm doorway into a topic most of us would rather not discuss. With Sara’s wisdom and compassion, we can begin to change how we relate to our own pain. Sara shares that it can be hard to see our way out of pain when we’re in it. We learn to relate to pain in our childhood and take those patterns into adulthood. By disconnecting from these patterns through the Process, we can begin to relate to pain in a new way.

During her Process, Sara did exactly this. She saw that she tended to relate to pain through suffering and struggle. Through the Process, Sara found that play, pleasure, and connection are powerful allies in healing. Sara says she trusts in love and compassion and is reclaiming self-trust in relation to pain.

We hope you enjoy this healing conversation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPmSCfAfauM

Listen on Apple Podcasts

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More about Sara Bissell Rubin:

Sara Bissell Rubin has spent a lot of her life thinking about pain. A medical sociologist and chronic pain educator, Sara received her PhD from UCSF. There, she studied how neuroscience makes sense of pain and how those understandings shape the way we think about and treat it. Before that, she was a clinical bodyworker providing hands-on care for people with severe chronic pain and PTSD.

During grad school, Sara developed her own chronic pain condition. This lent a layer of urgency and fervent curiosity to her research topic. She brings these three ways of knowing – academic, somatic, and lived experience – to her work as she guides individuals and groups towards finding their own resolution from chronic pain.

In part because of the nature of her work, which involves walking with people through the most difficult areas of their lives, Sara came to the Hoffman Process strongly identified with her dark side. She held a strong belief that life’s struggles were where the truth lay, and that embracing them was the only path to real healing. Sara also had a secret wish that the Process would finally fix her for good. Although she advocated in her research and her work for the human capacity for agency, she didn’t truly believe that change was possible because she hadn’t experienced any lasting change in herself. During her Process, Sara realized that the constant striving to be fixed was reinforcing the shame message that she was broken and in need of fixing in the first place, and that, for her, real growth comes from love, play, and connection.

Discover more:

Learn more about Sara at http://www.painfermata.com/. Follow Sara on Instagram and Facebook.

As mentioned in this episode:

Michael Klein, PhD, Therapist and teacher of Mindfulness and Self-Compassion

Chronic Daily Migraine

Sara’s teacher, Jason Beegle.
• Listen to Jason on The Hoffman Podcast: Our Pre-Process Panel – with Regina, Marc, and Jason

“It was always in a weird way, I wouldn’t say triggering, but I just didn’t like it. And then by the end, I really did love it. It just felt really heartwarming when different people in the Process, even still, since we all – a lot of us still keep in touch, and they call me Bubba, it makes me smile.” – Julie Shapiro

Hoffman grad, Julie Shapiro, found herself at a crossroads. She knew what she wanted to change in herself. Yet, she also felt unable to make that change. There’s change we can make through our choices, and then there’s change that must come from deeper within. The Hoffman Process works in this deeper place within us through the Cycle of Transformation. This is the place where the “magic” of the Process happens.

Julie’s story is one of courage, desire, and willingness. She came to the Process with profound scepticism. But she also came with a willingness to fully enter into the Process to allow change to happen within her, even though she couldn’t understand how it would happen.

In moments of silence in nature, time with a Buddha, and places where Julie knew she had to go deeper, the “magic” of transformation happened. She gained new insights and saw a deeply rooted pattern. In one moment that allowed her Process to go deeper, Julie realized she had to use the childhood nickname her father had given her on her name tag rather than her given name. She knew that, even though her nickname, Bubba, triggered her, using it would be important. And it turned out to be. As Julie shares, using Bubba “was the real way to connect with my childhood, connect with my parent relationship, work through some things that I may not have had the opportunity to do before he died, and just really connect with him.“ Connecting with her childhood unlocked something deeper within. Hearing fellow students call her Bubba began to bring her joy.

Beautiful, ineffable things can happen when you surrender to the Process, as Julie did. We hope you enjoy this heartfelt conversation with Julie and Sadie.

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Spotify

More about Julie Shapiro:

Have you ever known exactly what you wanted to change about yourself — but felt unable actually to make the change?

It was at that crossroads that Julie Shapiro signed up for the Hoffman Process. At 42, she felt that certain milestones, like marriage and starting a family, were out of reach. A lifelong New Yorker, she’d recently moved to Los Angeles and unexpectedly lost her dad within weeks of moving. A Stanford graduate, she set impossibly high standards for herself, both personally and professionally.

http://hoffmaninstitute.org/the-process/

Little Bubba

Julie had spent years in therapy, taken meditation courses, and tried other modalities to reduce anxiety. She was self-aware and could name her patterns. But awareness alone wasn’t moving the needle to evoke the changes she wanted.

The Hoffman Process was not something she ever would have considered. She expected it to be “woo woo” and couldn’t imagine that a one-week retreat had any long-term benefits. But despite her skepticism, she attended the Process in 2024, hoping it might unlock something within her.

The Process did just that. Through the Cycle of Transformation, Julie was able to move beyond her lawyer-trained intellect and tap into her emotional and spiritual selves. She discovered a deeply rooted pattern of living in survival mode — pushing through things that made her unhappy just to achieve the end goal. As the Process week unfolded, she began to believe that a spirit-led life, focused on “being” rather than “having,” was not only possible, but available to her.

One year later, in 2025, Julie returned for the Q2 graduate program to deepen her Hoffman toolkit. She is actively reorienting her life around who and what truly light her up — and redefining achievement along the way, from her tangible accomplishments to the person she is becoming. Follow Julie on Instagram.

As mentioned in this episode:

Hoffman’s Q2 is a three-day program for Process graduates.

Early-onset Alzheimers

Drew Horning:
Julie’s Hoffman teacher and one of the Hoffman Podcast hosts.

The Crossword

Hoffman Terminology and Tools:

Awareness Hell:
In the Hoffman Process, when we’re in awareness hell, we know we are aware of our patterns and the things we do that we wish we didn’t, but we are still unable to change. We understand, but feel stuck in this place of hell, even though our awareness keeps expanding. To get out of awareness hell, our work to grow and transform must include three additional steps for change to take place. These three steps are Expression, Compassion, and New Ways of Being. All four make up the Cycle of Transformation.

The Cycle of Transformation:
The four steps in the cycle are Awareness, Expression, Compassion, and New Ways of Being. All four make up the Cycle of Transformation.

Be-Do-Have vs. Do-Have-Be:
The life we long for comes from Be-Do-Have; the life we are taught we should strive for comes from Do-Have-Be.

Recycling/pre-cycling is a tool and a practice for receiving wisdom from your own Spiritual Self, which gives you qualities that lead you directly to new behavior, authenticity, and the freedom to respond rather than react to patterns. You replace a pattern with an authentic quality of your Spiritual Self and embody that quality. You create new behavior from this embodiment.

• When recycling, you use a scene from your recent past when you acted out the pattern.
• In pre-cycling, you use an imagined scene when you act out the pattern at some point in the future.

Your Spiritual Self ultimately guides you on how to BE so that you DO what supports your being and HAVE what you need to support your living.

Read about Dark Side work in the Hoffman Q2.

“I often feel like the work is kind of a disintegrative work that we’re doing, we’re allowing the patterns and the structures to release, so that there’s sort of nowhere left to go, because there’s nothing left to lose.” – Julia Bodkin

Beloved Hoffman Process facilitator and psychotherapist, Julia Bodkin, first took the Process in India in her very early adulthood. After living quite a bit of life, she took it again in Australia. Now, as a trained professional in many healing modalities, Julia facilitates the Process in the U.K. She brings a lifetime of experience, wisdom, and expertise, along with her generous, vulnerable heart.

In her youth, Julia wondered if there could be more to life than just getting a job and settling down. She grew up in a middle-class British family that, to her, seemed very “dull.” So she left the U.K. and travelled around India until she came to Pune, India, where she studied on and off for ten years.

Along her journey, having worked within many of the great schools of spiritual transformation, Julia knew she was seeking enlightenment and an “everlasting blissful state.” Through study, teaching, and much meditation, she’s, over time, found herself settling into an awakening and the embodiment of her true nature. Julia now sees it as “settling into what is.”

In teaching the Process, Julia shares how beautiful it is to watch students soften into themselves. She shares that in shedding patterns, they start “to get familiar with something that they’ve been trying to avoid, and realize how beautiful it is, and how much more open, and how much sweeter it is to have that connection with themselves.“

We know you’ll love this conversation with Julia and Drew. It’s filled with many bits of Hoffman history that might be new to you.

Listen on Apple Podcasts

More about Julia Bodkin:

Julia Bodkin has been a Hoffman Process facilitator since 2014. She completed the Process, trained in Australia, and is now based in Devon, in the U.K., where she has a private psychotherapy practice.

Julia’s work is inspired by more than 35 years of personal and professional immersion in different schools of psychotherapy and meditation. She has a degree in psychotherapy and a long career as a therapist in private practice, individually and with groups. Julia has worked as an addiction therapist at the original Priory Hospital in London.

For 15 years, Julia was a co-creator and a senior facilitator of The Path of Love process. She has been a senior teacher of the Diamond Logos Teaching since the late 1990’s. She has expertise and experience in Trauma Healing/SE®, Addiction Treatment, Gestalt Therapy, Group Therapy, Family Therapy & Family Constellation, and is also a Craniosacral Therapy practitioner.

As a traveller, Julia has lived and worked on several continents and is passionate about supporting people in reconnecting with their true nature.

As mentioned in this episode:

County of Devon, South West England.
• Dartmoor, an upland area in southern

Bob Hoffman, Founder of the Hoffman Process

Osho Ashram, Pune, India

Pokhara, Nepal
• White water rafting

North of India, in the Tibetan Buddhist area of Ladakh

The Path of Love

Faisal Muqaddam
Diamond Logos™ Teachings

The Diamond Approach, Ridhwan School
• Ali Hameed Almaas (A. H. Almaas)
• Karen Johnson

Claudio Naranjo
• Enneagram
• SAT: Seekers After Truth

The Priory, London, England

Negative Love
• A Path to Personal Freedom & Love: Written by Bob Hoffman. Download and read in PDF form.
• Listen to Drew and Andy Milberg, Hoffman teacher: Exploring the Negative Love Syndrome

Zen Buddhist Koans
• How to practice Zen Koans.

Spiritual Self
• Essence, the Essential Self, your True Nature

“At the very end, we’re all the same, and we want the same thing, which is we want to feel like we’re worthy of love and belonging.”
— Markus Bihler

Markus Bihler | Chairman, Hoffman South Africa

The Chairman of Hoffman Institute South Africa, Markus Bihler, is a different person than he was before taking the Hoffman Process. One beautiful outcome of his Process was the journey he made from his head to his heart.

Markus spent 35-plus years of his life as a “medical anomaly,” namely, “as somebody who had a head but no body.” He lived in his intellect. During the week of his Process, Markus cried more than he had ever cried in his adult life. Calling it a “liberating experience,” he now knows that all emotions are legitimate and have a reason for being. And he found deep empathy for young Markus, which led to empathy for his family and people in general.

After his Process, not only did Markus change, but his life changed, too. He and his wife, Angelina, moved home to South Africa. Once there, one of the first things he did was look for a Hoffman grad group. When he realized there was no Hoffman Institute South Africa, he and Angelina rolled up their sleeves to create one. They have opened and now run the Hoffman Institute in South Africa. They held their first Process this past Spring.

Using powerful metaphor and analogy, Markus shares his experience and knowledge of the Process in ways that bring its gifts into clear focus. He also speaks to the business side of Hoffman. For Markus and Angelina, the ‘business’ of Hoffman is not to make money. It is to “provide scale for this Process to permeate further into the world.” Their expertise and enthusiasm for the Process’s growth are helping to bring Bob Hoffman’s vision, “world peace, one person at a time,” more fully into reality.

Listen on Apple Podcasts

More about Markus Bihler:

Markus and Angelina Bihler

Angelina and Markus Bihler have started the Hoffman Institute South Africa, based in Cape Town, where they live with their two young sons after a global career in tech and finance, respectively.

Markus Bihler is a director, investor, and former CEO with a background spanning global consumer and investment businesses. He has worked across Europe, Southeast Asia, and international markets, including leading two successful CEO-led exits and founding a global long/short hedge fund focused on consumer equities. Earlier in his career, he was with Blackstone and EQT in private equity. Markus is a graduate of Oxford University and a Professor of Finance at the University of Cape Town.

Follow Markus on LinkedIn. Find out more about Hoffman South Africa’s upcoming Process dates here and their global press coverage here, and follow them on Instagram.

As mentioned in this episode:

Hoffman Institute UK

• Serena Gordon and the UK team
• Serena on the Hoffman Podcast: The Treasures of Your Past

Read more about the new China Hoffman Center.

• Rao Rao, Hoffman China teacher, on the Hoffman Podcast: Across the World, We Share the Same Humanity

Matt Brannagan, CEO of Hoffman Institute.

• Matt on the Hoffman Podcast: Our New CEO for Hoffman 3.0, Communities of Meaning

Read more about Bob Hoffman, founder of the Hoffman Process.

Raz Ingrasci, Founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation, USA.

• Raz on the Hoffman Podcast: Husband, Father, Son
• Raz and Marissia Ingrasci on the Hoffman Podcast: Spiritual Lineage and the Hoffman Process

Hoffman South Africa Process venue:
• Mont Fleur Conference Venue in the heart of the Stellenbosch winelands. Nestled in the Blaauwklippen Valley, Mont Fleur is a small, family-run venue. read more…

“Wisdom is a little bit more than just knowledge or experience; it’s a felt sense of truth and what reality is, and it’s a very tricky thing, because no one really has the final say on some of these things.” – Tyson Fok

When philosopher, designer, innovative creator, and Hoffman Process grad, Tyson Fok, tells his story, he weaves together his life experiences with his joyful pursuit of wisdom, an open sense of wonder, and a deeper quest for understanding. In doing so, he reveals a thoughtful retelling of a dynamic life path.

There are many powerful threads to this conversation with Tyson and Sadie. What stands out is Tyson’s way of navigating the world and relationships with his fellow human beings. Since he was young, Tyson has explored his curiosity and sense of wonder. The question of ‘Why?’ has been at the heart of this exploration. He came to the Hoffman Process in 2019, having completed a ten-day silent retreat prior. Tyson touches on multiple outcomes from his Process. One is a deeper relationship with his wife. Another is the desire to leave awareness hell and venture into an active exploration of turning his ideas into reality. And a third is a profound understanding of his parents’ stories, separate and together, which helped him express his appreciation and love for them.

Tyson shares, “My mother is an immigrant from Macau. My father’s family is from Hong Kong. And it’s such a different reality than what I grew up with. And to understand their story, where they came from, has given me just a whole different level of appreciation of my life. That was a huge shift for me that came out of Hoffman.”

After the Process, and during COVID, Tyson decided to start a podcast. Eventually, his podcast morphed into what it is now, Mixtape Memories. The podcast has blossomed into a physical card game and an app.

We hope you enjoy this wise and wonderful exploration of the question of ‘Why?’ with Tyson and Sadie.

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More about Tyson Fok:

Tyson Fok is an interior designer, podcast host, and creative producer working at the intersection of space, story, and human connection. His design practice centers on creating environments that are not only visually compelling, but deeply aligned with the lives people want to live—spaces that function as both backdrop and catalyst for meaningful experience.

He is the creator of Mixtape Memories, an ongoing storytelling project that explores identity through the music that shapes us. Through its podcast, Songversation card game, and companion app, the project invites people to reflect on their lives through song—transforming personal memory into a shared language of connection.

Across his work, Tyson is driven by a core question: how do we design for a more intentional, connected life? This inquiry extends beyond interiors into the gatherings and communities he builds. As a community and event organizer, he creates spaces—both physical and social—where people can engage more honestly with themselves and each other, often blending elements of storytelling, design, and facilitated conversation.

His approach is interdisciplinary but precise: remove noise, surface what matters, and design environments—whether a room, a conversation, or an experience—that make those priorities tangible and actionable.

Follow Tyson on Instagram.

As mentioned in this episode:

The Mormon Church

The Boy Scouts, now called Scouting America

Japanese Buddhist Temple in Sebastopol, California

10-Day Meditation Retreat:
This is usually a reference to a Vipassana Meditation retreat taught by S.N. Goenka.

Awareness Hell:
At the Hoffman Process, when we’re in awareness hell, we know we are aware of our patterns and the things we do we wish we didn’t do, but we are still unable to change. We understand, but feel stuck in this place of hell, even though our awareness keeps expanding. To get out of awareness hell, our work to grow and transform must include three additional steps for change to take place. These three steps are Expression, Compassion, and New Ways of Being. All four make up the Cycle of Transformation.

Mixtape Memories:
Mixtape Memories is an ongoing storytelling project that explores identity through the music that shapes us.

This is Water, David Foster Wallace’s Commencement Speech

A Songversation Game

Mixtape Memories App

1980’s Culture

Mixtape

MTV

Macau

Hong Kong

Peace Piece, by Bill Evans
• Listen to Peace Piece

“It’s not just a job. It’s really a mission, a purpose to be part of something that really does contribute to the rest of the world.
It’s healing for people. It’s love for people. It’s Spirit for people.” – Robin Linde

Today’s episode is an exciting two-for-one. Robin Linde, Senior Director of Operations – Infrastructure, joins Drew for a video walkabout of Santa Sabina, Hoffman’s new retreat site. A ’97 Hoffman grad, Robin also sits down with Drew for a conversation about her relationship to the Process and to Hoffman.

Robin and Drew

After completing her Process, Robin worked for Hoffman for a short time before returning home to Minnesota to care for her aging grandparents. Her time at the Process helped her see that serving the world doesn’t have to be big and flashy. Robin’s service was to be with her grandparents, and ultimately with her grandmother, for ten years after her grandfather died. Upon her grandmother’s death, she returned to the Bay Area and to Hoffman for a second stint.

Her timing impeccable, Robin returned to work for Hoffman for the fourth time in 2024. We were ready to renovate our newly acquired Santa Sabina. Someone with the right experience and a deep familiarity with Hoffman was needed to shepherd the renovation. Robin was perfect for the role.

We’re excited to share Santa Sabina with you. Walk through Santa Sabina with us and hear some of its history and key features. Then, listen in to hear more of Robin’s story and why working for Hoffman is more of a mission than a job. We hope to welcome you into Santa Sabina one day soon, either for the Process or the Q2, our three-day graduate retreat.

https://youtu.be/3tv1vL5qYKA

Listen on Apple Podcasts

More about Robin Linde

Robin Linde is Senior Director of Operations – Infrastructure at the Hoffman Institute Foundation. She oversees retreat site operations across California, Connecticut, and Alberta, Canada. Robin also manages internal operations for Human Resources and IT.

Robin brings a diverse professional background and unique operational experience supporting start-up companies and organizations going through periods of significant transition. She served as the primary liaison between Hoffman and the construction project team for the renovation and transition of Santa Sabina Center, overseeing the work from planning through execution and positioning the site for its next chapter of hosting Hoffman programs.

More about Santa Sabina:

Architect Arthur Constable

Mother Raymond O’Connor, OP

Nestled in the hills of San Rafael, California, historic Santa Sabina Retreat Center has roots dating back to 1939. It was named after the Basilica of Santa Sabina on the Aventine Hill in Rome, the historic mother church of the Dominican Order.

Santa Sabina was designed by architect Arthur Constable for Mother Raymond O’Connor, OP. The architecture is Tudor-Gothic, influenced by the Dominican Monastery at Stoke-on-Trent in England. It originally included a chapel, library, and courtyard garden. It served as a novitiate house of spiritual formation for women joining the Dominican Sisters of San Rafael until 1970.

From 1970–2023, Santa Sabina was open to the public for retreats, fostering a space for meditation, reflection, and spiritual growth, serving thousands of guests of a variety of denominations.

In 2024, the Dominican Sisters of San Rafael sold the property to the Hoffman Institute. Renovating it into a modern retreat center, Hoffman maintained its historic character, such as the chapel painting by E. Charlton Fortune. Thoughtfully redesigned for the next generation of seekers, the campus features a light-filled classroom, a welcoming dining hall and kitchen, and 47 private bedrooms designed for rest and renewal.

In April of 2026, the first Hoffman Process was held in the newly renovated Santa Sabina Retreat Center. The former chapel, now de-sanctified and free of religious iconography, has been transformed into The Sanctuary. Reimagined as a space for Hoffman’s non-religious spiritual work, The Sanctuary is where participants gather for reflection, transformation, and connection, a space that holds the essence of Hoffman’s mission to nurture healing and awakening. Set on two secluded acres of landscaped grounds, Santa Sabina provides an environment for the Hoffman Process to continue fostering growth, discovery, and profound personal change well into the future.

As mentioned in this episode:

Dominican University of California

Drew and Robin

“I feel like we are our own greatest science experiment.” – Jake Daigle

As Hoffman’s Facility and Land Manager, Jake Daigle weaves his love and care for the land with his love and care for the Hoffman Process. He found an intimacy with the land and wildlife at the IONS site in Petaluma when he and his wife, Christine, were caretakers there for many years. Now, as we transition to Santa Sabina, Jake looks back on his time at the Hoffman Retreat Site in Petaluma, working for Hoffman and supporting the students who have transformed there over the years.

There is something beautiful and yet understated in how Jake weaves these two together – the Process and the land. At the core, these are his deep values. When you look at who he is and how he embodies his love, you grasp that he truly is Farmer Jake, as he is known in his Instagram profile. Rooted in the growth of life all around him, he tends and cultivates, holds and supports.

Jake and Christine

Jake took the Process at White Sulphur Springs, where his Process’s pivotal moments revolved around the land. The creek running through, the sulphur springs, and the redwood grove all supported his deep work. After his Process, Liza Ingrasci asked Jake and Christine to create a labyrinth there. So many of us came to know intimately. Jake now brings his care for and knowledge of White Sulpher Springs and our Petaluma site, his knowledge of both flora and fauna, and the sacred places they hold, to his tending of the Santa Sabina site.

Referring to North America as Turtle Island, Jake shares that each place Hoffman calls home is a distinct part of the turtle’s back. All are connected.

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More about Jake Daigle:

Jake Daigle is a farmer and consultant focused on organic agriculture, ecological stewardship, and the long-term vitality of working landscapes. After Hurricane Katrina flooded his home in New Orleans, he moved to the Bay Area, finding refuge in nature and discovered that a holistic approach to health and wellness began with the awareness of our interconnection with all beings.

After graduating from the Hoffman Process, Jake put in years of hands-on experience in diversified organic farming. Jake has contributed to education and skill-building at the Indian Valley Organic Farm and Garden, where he supported both new and experienced growers through mentorship and practical training. He was also part of the founding of Live Oak Farm, helping shape a model that integrates agriculture, community, and place-based stewardship. This work reflects Jake’s view of farms as spaces not only for production, but for art, education, connection, and resilience.

Young Jake

Currently working with the Hoffman Institute at Santa Sabina, Jake is also developing Headwaters Farm at SOMO Village. The project is designed as a living example of regenerative organic agriculture, combining food production with education, community engagement, and local food systems.

In partnership with Credo High School, he is also planning a culinary arts program set to launch in 2027. The program will connect students to the full cycle of food—from growing and harvesting to cooking and sales—offering hands-on learning that ties together agriculture, nutrition, and ecology.

Through consulting, teaching, and fieldwork, Jake helps farmers and land stewards think strategically about soil health, crop planning, and whole-farm systems. His work emphasizes practical, economically viable approaches to building resilient agricultural operations.

Across all his roles, Jake brings a collaborative, observant, and grounded approach, guided by a commitment to organic practices, continual learning, and the relationship between healthy land, food, and communities.

Social Media:

Follow Jake on Instagram.

As mentioned in this episode:

Christine Falcon-Daigle:
Christine is the Assistant Retreat Site Manager for the Hoffman Institute.

Jake and Christine with Aia-Jo.
Aia-Jo recently passed away.

Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS)

Frank Ferrante:
• Book: May I Be Frank?
• Documentary: May I Be Frank?

Edgar Mitchell, Astronaut, Hoffman Graduate:
• The Overview Effect
• “Earthrise: Earthrise is a photograph of Earth taken from lunar orbit by astronaut William Anders on December 24, 1968, during the Apollo 8 mission…” read more…

Olompali State Historic Park

John Muir:
“The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.” – John Muir

White Sulphur Springs, St Helena
• Hoffman Retreat Site at White Sulphur Springs

Guardian rock:
A large rock that stands on the land in Petaluma, which was the home of the Hoffman Process.

Guardian Rock, photo by Drew Horning

“As above, so below.”

Shamanism (Shamanic work)

Riparian zone

Mount Burdell Preserve

Mount Tamalpais

“The turtle’s back…” refers to Turtle Island.

Flora mentioned:

Madrone

Manzanita

Valley Oak

Live Oak

Buckeye

Bay tree

Manzanita

“You know, there’s that old saying, anywhere you go, there you are.
The Hoffman Process brings that magic with it wherever it goes.”
– Perry Dorsey Jr.

Today’s guest is Perry Dorsey Jr., Hoffman Institute’s retreat site manager and a beautiful human being. As we transition from Petaluma Retreat Center to our new Santa Sabina Retreat Center, we invited Perry to share his wisdom with you. He tells the story of how the land nurtured him during his Process. The land continued to do so as he stepped into his important role at Hoffman.

Perry’s relationship with the land at our site in Petaluma has been foundational to his care for the site, his fellow Petaluma staff, and the students who come to do the Hoffman Process. Perry completed his own Process at White Sulphur Springs, our old retreat site. He supported the opening of our new site, Santa Sabina. Perry is managing both Petaluma and Santa Sabina during our crossover period in April and May, with programs in both places.

Perry holds a reverent long view of Hoffman from the perspective of the land. Over time, he has witnessed how it interplays with students there to do the deep work of the Process. In hearing his experiences witnessing the students interact with nature, we begin to get a sense of this important interrelation with the land.

As Perry says, the land feels “the vibrations and the energy of all the hard work and love that is held there. You know, there’s that old saying, anywhere you go, there you are. The Hoffman process brings that magic with it wherever it goes.” The land at White Sulphur Springs and the Petaluma Retreat Center will remember all who opened their hearts there, as new students open theirs at Santa Sabina.

A special addition to Perry’s episode:

The land blessing ceremony, led by (Clockwise from top-left) Jessica Harjo, Matt Brannagan, CEO, Karen Waconda-Lewis, and Jessica’s daughter.

In the last portion, Sadie and Perry welcome Jessica Harjo to the conversation. Jessica shares a bit about the land blessing we held onsite for Santa Sabina the morning before the first students arrived for their Process there. Jessica was integral to our land blessing for Santa Sabina. After the circle of Indigenous leaders, including Jessica, Karen Waconda-Lewis, and Jessica’s daughter, led the blessing ceremony, various attendees read the Thanksgiving Address. Jessica reads a portion of this address in this episode.

Jessica’s multicultural ancestry (Indigenous/San Carlos Apache, Indigenous/Chicana/Mexican, Filipina, Japanese, and European) has been a source of strength in her life. It is reflected in her work in recognizing and uplifting multicultural and Indigenous knowledge.

We hope you enjoy this loving conversation with Perry, Sadie, and Jessica.

Listen on Apple Podcasts

More about Perry Dorsey Jr.:

As the Retreat Site Manager for the Hoffman Institute, Perry currently oversees operations at our Petaluma site and the new Santa Sabina site. His history with the institute began at White Sulphur Springs. There, he supported the daily operations before leaving to pursue his graduate degree. After four years away, Perry returned to the Hoffman Institute to manage the Petaluma site. He brought a perspective deeply influenced by the profound changes he experienced during his own Process at White Sulphur Springs in 2017.

Perry’s professional approach is shaped by a Master’s in Diverse Community Development Leadership from Cal State University, Northridge, and his time living on the Big Island of Hawaii. Those experiences were foundational in shaping his passion for food security. Perry has supported the development of food hubs and helped create sustainable operational practices for small, localized businesses. They also deepened Perry’s understanding of how essential community is, not just for individual growth, but for our collective resilience. He now carries that into his work. He helps create spaces where students can open up, feel supported, and fully step into the work in a way that’s meaningful and impactful.

Follow Perry on Instagram and Facebook.

More about Jessica Harjo:

Jessica Harjo is a soul-embodied human being and lifelong learner. She’s a proud homemaker and mother of three daughters, three stepchildren, and four grandchildren. For the past eighteen years, Jessica has worked in the nonprofit sector as the Director of Operations for the Tribal Law and Policy Institute.

A nonprofit leader, Jessica specializes in policy development, administrative infrastructure, team development, project management, HR implementation, and business and financial operations management. She holds a Bachelor of Science in Film, Media, and Social Justice and a minor in Business Administration. Jessica also holds an MBA from Mount Saint Mary’s University. Mount Saint Mary’s is the only women’s university in Los Angeles. It is known for its annual report on the Status of Women and Girls in California.

Jessica has volunteered on numerous nonprofit boards that serve Indigenous communities. She’s an active volunteer for the Hoffman Inner Work for Indigenous Leaders Advisory Circle and the Indigenous outreach team. She provides support for other Indigenous Process fellows and graduates.

A student of Yoga philosophy, Nichiren Buddhism, and Indigenous Mindfulness, Jessica is currently working on her RYT500 Yoga Teacher Training. She regularly uses her Hoffman tools to continue healing, visualizing, and growing. This has been the journey of her lifetime. The Process brought her to herself, and the BIPOC Q2 brought her home.

Jessica and her husband, Tim Harjo, live in Oklahoma. They balance their careers, family life, and running Sovereign Ranch, a first-generation, Native-owned bison ranch.

Listen to Jessica on The Hoffman Podcast: My Ancestry Is My Soil, My Foundation

As mentioned in this episode:

California Hoffman Retreat Centers:
• Santa Sabina Retreat Center, San Rafael
• Petaluma Retreat Center, Petaluma
• White Sulphur Springs Retreat Center, St Helena

The Thanksgiving Address, read by Jessica Harjo.

How can I just be in the sensing of my life and the experiences that I have,
rather than having to wrestle and fight those?” – Cindy Murray

We are thrilled to have beloved Hoffman teacher and coach, Cindy Murray, as our guest today. Cindy responds to Drew’s question – Why the Process? – sharing a few reasons. Cindy had been very successful in her career as a psychotherapist and educator. After suffering a traumatic brain injury, Cindy was shaken. She’d relied heavily on her intellect in her career for success. How would she move forward now with this brain injury?

Cindy also found herself “in a conundrum within.” She’d grown up in a loving home with all her needs met. Her parents didn’t discuss feelings, but they were a beautiful, loving couple. Their marriage was Cindy’s role model for relationships, one that lasted more than 50 years. Then, Cindy fell deeply in love with a woman after being married to a man for about 10 years. Suddenly, she realized she had been living the model her parents taught her, but deep within, she understood this wasn’t who she truly is.

During her time at the Process, Cindy reclaimed her true self. Post-Process, Cindy integrated what she learned and began to trust this new relationship with her Spiritual Self. Now, through her work as a Hoffman Process teacher, she holds space for her students to do the same. Listen in to hear Cindy’s journey to learn how to stop wrestling and fighting so she could come to meet her life as it unfolds.

Content Warning:

This episode references child sexual abuse and may not be suitable for all audiences. Please use your discretion.

Watch and listen to Cindy & Drew:

https://youtu.be/-tG6xa3SMos

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Spotify

More about Cindy Murray:

Cindy, doing what she loves

Hoffman Process teacher, Cindy Murray, earned a Master of Clinical Social Work from Western Michigan University and is a graduate of the clinical training program in Analytical Psychotherapy from the CG Jung Institute of Chicago.

Cindy’s own Process was pivotal in her personal growth, leading her on the path of connection and presence. As a Hoffman Process teacher, she believes in helping students to further their own deep connection with themselves and to hold presence within themselves and in the world for those they love.

Cindy also teaches in the Social Work Department at Western Michigan University and volunteers for the LoveYourBrain Foundation, which empowers people with brain injury and caregivers to feel more resilient, connected, and able to lead fulfilling lives.

Originally from Kalamazoo, Michigan, Cindy currently lives in Cochrane, Alberta, Canada, near the Hoffman Canadian retreat site. She enjoys hiking and skiing in the mountains and swimming in the glacial lakes as often as she can.

As mentioned in this episode:

Love Your Brain Foundation