Therapist Uncensored Podcast

When life changes overnight, how do we find our way forward?

After losing Thomas’s mother to pancreatic cancer and navigating Thomas’s aggressive leukemia diagnosis, bone marrow transplant, relapse, and ongoing recovery, Lindsay and Thomas join Dr. Ann Kelley to share their deeply personal journey through cancer, caregiving, grief, and resilience. Together, they explore the emotional realities of serious illness, the often-overlooked grief experienced by caregivers, and how vulnerability, honest communication, and mutual support can strengthen relationships during life’s most uncertain moments.

“If I’m going to go through this, I want to grow through this.” – Thomas Kealey

Time Stamps for The Other Side of Caregiving: Grief, Vulnerability & Finding Joy with Lindsey & Thomas Kealey (315)

03:59 Transition from caregiver to patient
09:52 Keys to acceptance and trust in medical care
24:51 Supporting each other through grief and fear
34:59 Practical tools for caregivers and patients
45:11 Talking about fear and end-of-life conversations
55:10 Creating normalcy and connection in the hospital
59:51 Living with uncertainty and foreboding joy

About our Guests – Lindsey & Thomas Kealey

Thomas is a dedicated Preoperative & Post Anesthesia charge nurse in Bend, Oregon. As a co-host of the Brain it On! Podcast, he shares insights from his personal journey with Multiple Phenotype Acute Leukemia (MPAL) and a bone marrow transplant. His mission is strengthened by the mutual support he shared with his mother, who had pancreatic cancer, to inspire and help others facing medical challenges.

Lindsey is an instructor of Human Development and Family Sciences at Oregon State University and the author of PAWsitive Choices Social and Emotional Learning. Her experience teaching in elementary schools and higher education led her to create a curriculum that integrates neuroscience and problem-solving to foster children’s resilience. As a co-host of the Brain it On! Podcast, she shares key learnings from her journey through her husband’s cancer treatment to help others navigate adversity.

Resources for The Other Side of Caregiving: Grief, Vulnerability & Finding Joy with Lindsey & Thomas Kealey (315)

Brain It On! – Thomas and Lindsey’s podcast

The Comfort & Healing Companion: A Patient and Caregiver Toolkit for Treatment, Recovery, and Beyond– Thomas &Lindsey’s book, get your copy!

Instagram – Following the Brain It On podcast’s profile

YouTube – Check out their Youtube channel

Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all!

Therapy can be costly, but part of the mission of Talkspace is to provide quality care that is accessible and affordable—whether or not you are insured. As a listener of this podcast, you’ll get $80 off of your first month with Talkspace when you go to http://talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80.

Talkiatry is a 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses, and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression, and more. Head to http://Talkiatry.com/TU to complete the shorhttp://talkiatry.com/tut assessment and get matched with an in‑network psychiatrist in just a few minutes.

Many new events coming up at TU – Check out our events page to see our highlights and happenings!

http://therapistuncensored.com/vitalityhttp://https://www.traumatherapistinstitute.com/disorganized-attachment-traininghttp://https://www.traumatherapistinstitute.com/modern-attachment-spectrum-trauma-therapy-techniques?kuid=d2fdfc68-8fa3-49c0-ad38-e458291e1944-1792987165&kref=https%3A%2F%2Ftherapistuncensored.com%2Fupcoming_events%2F

Just a few of our fun opportunities!

Beyond Attachment Styles –

Deepening Security in Yourself and Fostering More Secure Relationships

Course available NOW – New LIVE Q&A Coming December 2026!

Everyone’s heard of attachment styles – but you likely don’t know how much the popular press gets wrong and what the science actually says about how to improve your relationships long term (including how we relate to ourselves). This course is for anyone wanting to more deeply understand attachment (styles vs patterns), unconscious defense activation patterns, implicit scripts… and most importantly, what to do once you do get activated! Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout.

Ready to dive deeper into Secure Relating? Grab the book or explore the course, and use code BAS15 for a limited-time listener discount.

http://www.securerelatingbook.com/Or read Marriott & Kelley’s critically-acclaimed book, Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World(HarperCollins,2023) for the most in-depth experience of learning about Secure Relating.

Therapists love it, but it’s accessible to everyone. If you aren’t interested in the background science, just start at Part 2 and we will be talking directly to you – it’s fun!

http://therapistuncensored.com/join

Attention self-proclaimed Neuronerds!🚨

If you refer others to the pod, use it in your professional life or just love this stuff – you’re in the right place!

Your fellow Neuronerds are waiting – Join our exclusive community to get exclusive bonus content, early access to training opportunities, and an ad-free, private podcast feed. It’s this warm community that allows us to donate half of all corporate profits to mental health access for marginalized peoples.

Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

http://therapistuncensored.com/join

Patreon/Supercast Special Release –

Bonus – Curiosity Over Certainty: The Secret to More Secure Relationships with Ann & Sue (314)

This is a sneak peek of our newest episode – available only on our Premium Supercast and Patreon platforms. For as little as $5/month you can have access to special releases like this one, first-to-know about upcoming events and discounts and an ad-free feed.

Click here to join & finish the episode!!

Are you curious—or just looking for reassurance?

Sue and Ann are back to explore why genuine curiosity is harder than it sounds—and why our need for certainty can quietly interfere with connection. Through relatable examples, attachment science, and a little self-reflection, Ann and Sue highlight the difference between seeking answers and cultivating true curiosity. They explore how our assumptions about ourselves and others shape our relationships, why uncertainty can feel threatening, and how learning to sit with discomfort can open the door to deeper understanding. From challenging the stories we tell ourselves to recognizing our own emotional reactions, discover practical ways to move beyond defensiveness, strengthen self-awareness, and build more secure, connected relationships—starting with yourself.

“You need to point your curiosity inward first.” – Sue Marriott, LCSW CGP

Time Stamps for Bonus – Curiosity Over Certainty: The Secret to More Secure Relationships with Ann & Sue (314)

01:05 Exploring curiosity as a tool for connection
09:35 Understanding our stories and assumptions
14:47 The importance of self-reflection in curiosity
25:12 Challenging certainty
31:59 The role of attachment in curiosity
39:47 Practical steps to cultivate curiosity

Looking for our Upcoming Events? Click here!! – Ann & Sue have LIVE training sessions in November and December in partnership with the Trauma Therapist Institute…you won’t want to miss them!

Our Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

• Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout
• Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s – Next Q&A Coming December 11th 2026!

…and the course pairs wonderfully with our book – Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World – get your copy HERE!

“Comprehensive, courageous, creative and clear, Sue Marriott and Ann Kelley expertly and compassionately guide us through a deep understanding of attachment and how to rewire our nervous systems toward more secure and fulfilling relationships. This is a cutting-edge essential read for those at any stage of the self-discovery journey who seek to make meaningful changes in their lives. A wonderful contribution to our collective conversation about how to make our shared world a better place for us all.” – Daniel Siegel, M.D.

Testimony is more than telling your story—it’s reclaiming the power to heal

Psychologist, scholar, and activist Dr. Makungu Akinyela explores Testimony Therapy, an African-centered approach that emphasizes storytelling, cultural identity, ancestral wisdom, and community connection. Alongside co-host Sue Marriott, they examine how colonialism and systemic oppression shape mental health, the power of oral traditions in healing, and why meaningful change requires moving beyondhttp://https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/testimony-therapy-makungu-m-akinyela-phd-lmft/1148218071?ean=9781324082422 individual treatment toward collective healing and liberation.

“The story is not just one person’s story. It’s a shared story.” – Dr. Makungu Akinyela

Time Stamps for Beyond Western Psychology: Decolonizing Mental Health Through Testimony Therapy with Dr. Makungu Akinyela (313)

01:09 Dr. Akinyela’s background and activism
02:22 The influence of Western psychology and decolonial thought
03:56 Fanon, Du Bois, and the roots of testimony therapy
10:32 Testimony therapy and the question of cultural narratives
13:40 Double consciousness and the experience of Blackness
17:58 Colorism, internalized racism, and social trauma
21:28 Fanon’s zone of non-being and political realities
28:10 African-centered worldview and community healing
34:04 Orality, storytelling, and the power of testimony
42:53 Signification, rhythm, and body in oral traditions
48:41 Cultural practices and healing modalities
58:13 Decentering the therapist and collaborative healing
01:02:03 Global resistance and decolonial mental health movements

About our Guest – Dr. Makungu M. Akinyela

Dr. Makungu M. Akinyela (Mah-koon-goo Ah-keen-yay-Lah) is a leading authority on cultural democracy, narrative practice, anti-racist resistance, and mental health. He is a licensed psychotherapist practicing in Atlanta, Georgia, and an Associate Professor of Africana Studies at Georgia State University. He is the creator of the African-centered approach to narrative practice called testimony therapy and the author of the book Testimony Therapy: Decolonizing Mental Health for Black Therapists and Clients, published by W.W. Norton. He is also the author of the book Culture, Politics, Spirituality and Practice: A book of resistance and critical theory for disturbing times, published by Dulwich Publications. As a scholar activist and a therapist. Dr. Akinyela is a lifelong committed social justice organizer with a focus on struggles for human rights and justice for Black people in the United States and the African diaspora. His research and writing include such subjects as cultural democracy and mental health care; cultural domination and therapeutic resistance; reparations and the role of mental health workers in repairing oppressive wounds; and African-centered family therapy. He is a Clinical Fellow and an Approved Supervisor of the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy (AAMFT).

Resources for Beyond Western Psychology: Decolonizing Mental Health Through Testimony Therapy with Dr. Makungu Akinyela (313)

Testimony Therapy: Decolonizing Mental Health for Black Therapists and Clients – Get your copy of Dr. Akinyela’s book

Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all!

Therapy can be costly, but part of the mission of Talkspace is to provide quality care that is accessible and affordable—whether or not you are insured. As a listener of this podcast, you’ll get $80 off of your first month with Talkspace when you go to http://talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80.

Beyond Attachment Styles –

Deepening Security in Yourself and Fostering More Secure Relationships

Course available NOW – New LIVE Q&A Coming December 2026!

Everyone’s heard of attachment styles – but you likely don’t know how much the popular press gets wrong and what the science actually says about how to improve your relationships long term (including how we relate to ourselves). This course is for anyone wanting to more deeply understand attachment (styles vs patterns), unconscious defense activation patterns, implicit scripts… and most importantly, what to do once you do get activated! Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout.

Ready to dive deeper into Secure Relating? Grab the book or explore the course, and use code BAS15 for a limited-time listener discount.

http://www.securerelatingbook.com/Or read Marriott & Kelley’s critically-acclaimed book, Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World(HarperCollins,2023) for the most in-depth experience of learning about Secure Relating.

Therapists love it, but it’s accessible to everyone. If you aren’t interested in the background science, just start at Part 2 and we will be talking directly to you – it’s fun!

http://therapistuncensored.com/join

Attention self-proclaimed Neuronerds!🚨

If you refer others to the pod, use it in your professional life or just love this stuff – you’re in the right place!

Your fellow Neuronerds are waiting – Join our exclusive community to get exclusive bonus content, early access to training opportunities, and an ad-free, private podcast feed. It’s this warm community that allows us to donate half of all corporate profits to mental health access for marginalized peoples.

Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

What does self-worth really look like when we stop trying to be perfectly secure?http://https://drmarisagfranco.com/worth-the-book/

Dr. Ann Kelley talks with psychologist and bestselling author Dr. Marisa G. Franco about her new book, Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment. Dr. Franco challenges the idea that healing means becoming perfectly “secure,” arguing instead for becoming “secure-ish”—learning to acknowledge insecurity, shame, vulnerability, and other difficult emotions without judging or rejecting those parts of ourselves. She explores the difference between self-esteem and true self-worth, why some people struggle to receive love or positive feedback, and how our deeply held stories about ourselves can shape the relationships and experiences we seek out. The conversation also navigates into the science of memory and memory reconsolidation, including how past experiences can continue to influence our emotions and reactions even when we don’t consciously remember them.

“Being a steward of self-worth for self and for others is about allowing people to make mistakes and be imperfect.” – Dr. Marisa G. Franco

Time Stamps for Secure-ish: Rethinking Self-Worth & Attachment with Dr. Marisa G. Franco (312)

01:57 Why friendship matters more than we think
04:01 The problem with attachment styles as status symbols
08:00 Memory as the database of self-perception
13:58 The role of implicit and explicit memory
25:59 The role of body sensations in healing
31:59 Overcoming self-criticism and building resilience
36:07 The Science of Memory and Emotional Triggers
40:02 Addressing detachment and dissociation
47:57 Practical tools for lasting change
49:55 The Future of Self-Worth and Emotional Freedom

About our Guest – Dr. Marisa G. Franco

An enlightening psychologist, international speaker, and New York Times bestselling author, Dr. Marisa G Franco is known for digesting and communicating science in ways that resonate deeply enough with people to change their lives. She works as a professor at The University of Maryland and authored the New York Times bestseller Platonic: How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make—and Keep—Friends and Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment. She writes about friendship for Psychology Today and has been a featured connection expert for major publications like The New York Times, The Telegraph, and Vice. She speaks on belonging and self-worth at corporations, government agencies, non-profits, and universities. For tips on friendship, you can follow her on Instagram (DrMarisaGFranco), or go to her website, https://drmarisagfranco.com/, where you can take a quiz to assess your strengths and weaknesses as a friend & reach out for speaking engagements. Dr. Marisa G. Franco professor, speaker, and author of Platonic and the forthcoming Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment.

Resources for Secure-ish: Rethinking Self-Worth & Attachment with Dr. Marisa G. Franco (312)

Worth: The New Science of Self-Esteem and Secure Attachment – Marisa’s book, get your copy!

Dr. Franco’s LinkedIn – Profile

@DrMarisaGFranco – Instagram profile

Newsletter – Subscribe to receives yours

Website – Information, speaking engagements and more

Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all!

http://simplepractice.com/tu

SimplePractice is an all-in-one EHR that is HIPPA compliant, HITRUST certified and built specifically for therapists.

If you are ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try SimplePractice. Start with a 7-day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to http://simplepractice.com/ to claim the offer.

Beyond Attachment Styles –

Deepening Security in Yourself and Fostering More Secure Relationships

Course available NOW!

Everyone’s heard of attachment styles – but you likely don’t know how much the popular press gets wrong and what the science actually says about how to improve your relationships long term (including how we relate to ourselves). This course is for anyone wanting to more deeply understand attachment (styles vs patterns), unconscious defense activation patterns, implicit scripts… and most importantly, what to do once you do get activated! Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout.

Ready to dive deeper into Secure Relating? Grab the book or explore the course, and use code BAS15 for a limited-time listener discount.http://therapistuncensored.com/bas

http://www.securerelatingbook.com/Or read Marriott & Kelley’s critically-acclaimed book, Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World(HarperCollins,2023) for the most in-depth experience of learning about Secure Relating.

Therapists love it, but it’s accessible to everyone. If you aren’t interested in the background science, just start at Part 2 and we will be talking directly to you – it’s fun!

http://therapistuncensored.com/join

Attention self-proclaimed Neuronerds!🚨

If you refer others to the pod, use it in your professional life or just love this stuff – you’re in the right place!

Your fellow Neuronerds are waiting – Join our exclusive community to get exclusive bonus content, early access to training opportunities, and an ad-free, private podcast feed. It’s this warm community that allows us to donate half of all corporate profits to mental health access for marginalized peoples.

Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

Explore expanded states of consciousness with Patty Nagle's insights on breathwork and psychedelics for personal transformation.

Learn how attachment healing can improve your relationships and foster deeper connections within your community and beyond.

Discover how DBT can cultivate joy and self-acceptance, addressing the effects of chronic invalidation on queer identities.

Delve into Mentalization-Based Treatment to support those with Borderline Narcissistic traits and strengthen emotional intelligence.

Borderline and narcissism are often misunderstood—this episode separates myth from science.

Robert Drozek explores the science behind borderline and narcissistic personality disorders, separating common myths from current research. Together, he and Sue discuss attachment, trauma, genetics, parenting, evidence-based treatments, and why understanding these often misunderstood conditions can bring greater compassion, hope, and healthier relationships.

“Borderline is driven by a need to reconnect.” – Robert P. Drozek, LICSW

Time Stamps for Challenging Personalities: Understanding Borderline & Narcissism with Robert Drozek (307)

04:14 Understanding Borderline Personality Disorder
09:25 Exploring narcissism: Definitions and types
13:29 Vulnerable vs. grandiose narcissism
18:56 The Role of Trauma in Personality Disorders
22:25 Parenting styles and their impact on narcissism
27:14 Identifying narcissism in relationships
33:34 Treatment approaches for Borderline Personality Disorder
36:45 Challenges in treating Narcissistic Personality Disorder
45:26 Navigating relationships with narcissistic individuals

About our Guest – Robert P. Drozek, LICSW

Robert P. Drozek, LICSW is the clinical director of the Mentalization-Based Treatment Clinic at McLean Hospital in Belmont, Massachusetts. He is a teaching associate in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, specializing in the treatment of
borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, and post-traumatic stress disorder. He is author of the new book, Mentalization: Utilizing reflection to heal from borderline personality disorder—the first book for the general public about
mentalization-based treatment.

Resources for Challenging Personalities: Understanding Borderline & Narcissism with Robert Drozek (307)

Download page – Free worksheets and handouts from the book

Mentalization Coach App – The first mobile app for mentalization and MBT,
adapted from my new book

Mentalization-based Treatment for Pathological Narcissism – Handbook

Mentalization-based Treatment for Personality Disorders– A practical guide

Cambridge Guide to Mentalization-based Treatment

Anna Freud Centre – The worldwide training hub for mentalization-based
treatment (MBT)

NPD Basic – A free guide to narcissistic personality disorder

MBT Boston– An organization that Robert co-founded that offers training and supervision to clinicians across the world in MBT

MBT USA – A consortium of MBT providers and organizations in the United

Robert’s faculty page at McLean Hospital

Instagram: @RobertDrozek

Mentalization book – Facebook page

Get your copy of Mentalization: Utilizing Reflection to Heal from Borderline Personality Disorder here!

Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all!

http://simplepractice.com/tu

SimplePractice is an all-in-one EHR that is HIPPA compliant, HITRUST certified and built specifically for therapists.

If you are ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try SimplePractice. Start with a 7-day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to http://simplepractice.comto claim the offer.

Beyond Attachment Styles –

Deepening Security in Yourself and Fostering More Secure Relationships

Course available NOW!

Everyone’s heard of attachment styles – but you likely don’t know how much the popular press gets wrong and what the science actually says about how to improve your relationships long term (including how we relate to ourselves). This course is for anyone wanting to more deeply understand attachment (styles vs patterns), unconscious defense activation patterns, implicit scripts… and most importantly, what to do once you do get activated! Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout. http://www.therapistuncensored.com/bas

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

http://www.securerelatingbook.comOr read Marriott & Kelley’s critically-acclaimed book, Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World(HarperCollins,2023)

for the most in-depth experience of learning about Secure Relating.

Therapists love it, but it’s accessible to everyone. If you aren’t interested in the background science, just start at Part 2 and we will be talking directly to you – it’s fun!

http://therapistuncensored.com/join

You are invited!

OK for those of you who refer others to the pod, use it professionally or consider yourself nerdy and just love this stuff, hello, you are our people!

Join our exclusive community to get exclusive bonus content, early access to training opportunities, and an ad-free, private podcast feed. It’s this warm community that allows us to donate half of all corportate profits to mental health access for marginalized peoples. Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

What is responsible externalization?
Learn how therapists can address systematic trauma and create space for grief and imagination in their practices. This episode brought to you by Simple Practice and www.therapistuncensored.com/join.

The leadership skill that changes everything

Special guest Amy Holloway explores how trust shapes thriving communities, effective leadership, and long-term economic growth. Drawing from interviews with leaders across the United States, Amy shares the simple but powerful behaviors that build trust, strengthen collaboration, and create meaningful change – whether in organizations, neighborhoods, or entire cities. Together, Amy and Ann discuss the leadership traits that foster connection, the behaviors that erode trust, and why building community starts with intentional relationships.

“Trust-building is within everyone’s power.” – Amy Holloway

Time Stamps for Trust Builders: Leadership That Creates Change with Amy Holloway (305)

00:15 Importance of establishing trust in communities
07:32 Trust breakers vs. trust builders
14:18 Characteristics of effective community leaders
19:52 Insights from interviews with local leaders
25:33 Crisis management and community recovery

About our Guest – Amy Holloway, President of Aha!

Amy Holloway is the president of Aha!, an economic development consultancy specializing in strategic planning, and a practitioner-in-residence with Harvard Kennedy School’s Reimagining the Economy Project. Over a 30-year career, she has helped more than 200 places design strategies for long-term economic growth and community prosperity. A retired partner at Ernst & Young and leader of the firms national economic development practice, Amy previously founded and led Avalanche Consulting, one of the nation’s leading strategic planning firms. With her upbeat, welcoming style, she brings local leaders together through conversations that spark “aha!” moments and shared action. Her new #1 bestselling book, Trust Builders: The Key To Thriving Communities, is the culmination of Amy’s career-long belief that trust among local leaders is the single most powerful force shaping thriving communities. Amy lives in Asheville, North Carolina. In her free time, she enjoys hiking, painting, and teaching Pilates.

Resources for Trust Builders: Leadership That Creates Change with Amy Holloway (305)

Trust Builders: The Key to Thriving Communities – Get your copy of Amy’s book today!!

Aha! Advisor – Aha! is where leaders unite to make a lasting impact, learn more

Trust Strengths Assessment – Take your assessment here!!

Reimagining the Economy Project, Harvard Kennedy School – Rohan Sandhu, Tony Ditta, Monserrat Magana Ocana

The Social Capital Atlas – Raj Chetty, Matthew O. Jackson, Theresa Kuchler, Johannes Stroebel. Abigail Hiller, Sarah Oppenheimer * The Opportunity Insights Team

Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others. Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

Get your copy of Secure Relating here!!

In the ongoing effort to expand perspectives, Sue Marriott talks with Dr. Sabrina N'Diaye. Sister Sabrina as she calls herself shares incredible stories and surprising insights that help to widen our mental health perspective. She focuses on a more holistic approach to healing that blends spirituality, therapy, ancestral wisdom, and community connection. Together, they explore the transformative power of writing, forgiveness, and intentional rituals, while discussing how self-love, collective healing, and honoring every emotion can help us reconnect with ourselves and move through trauma with greater compassion and resilience.

OCD isn't just about managing symptoms—it's about understanding the parts beneath them
In the third and final part of our OCD series, expert Melissa Mose explores the complexities of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), discussing evidence-based treatments like Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) and how Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy can complement traditional approaches. Drawing from both professional expertise and personal experience, Melissa shares practical strategies for navigating OCD, while highlighting the roles of self-leadership, compassion, and understanding the different "parts" that influence thoughts, fears, and behaviors.

"ERP has been shown to be the most effective treatment. Exposures help the brain rewire and learn resilience." - Melissa Mose

Time Stamps for The Hidden Parts of OCD: ERP, IFS, and Self-Leadership with Melissa Mose (303)
00:12 Introduction to OCD and treatment
02:58 Understanding exposure and response prevention (ERP)
08:13 The role of the therapist in ERP
10:45 Integrating internal family systems (IFS) with ERP
13:30 The impact of shame in OCD
16:09 Differentiating reassurance from compulsions
36:25 Understanding exiled parts in therapy
40:58 Obsessive and compulsive parts: A closer look
43:38 Navigating the helicopter parent dynamic
47:40 Differentiating between anxiety and OCD
55:45 The connection between attachment and OCD
About our Guest - Melissa Mose, LMFT
Melissa Mose is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist with a private practice in Los Angeles since 1995. She has specialized in the treatment of OCD and anxiety since 2011 and currently trains and supervises associates in her group practice. Melissa is also an Internal Family Systems therapist. She is Level 3 trained and Certified and an IFSI-approved clinical consultant. She has served on staff as a PA for multiple Level 1 and Level 2 experiential IFS trainings through the IFS Institute. Melissa’s experience as the parent of a child with OCD led her to specialize in the treatment of individuals with anxiety and OCD as well as their families. She is a graduate of the IOCDF’s general, pediatric and advanced Behavior Therapy Training Institutes (BTTI) as well as the Supportive Parenting for Anxious Childhood Emotions (SPACE) program and Cognitive-behavioral Intervention for Tics training (CBIT). Her fifteen years of experience prior to that specialization provided a broad foundation of skills and approaches that infuse her integrative approach. With a background in family systems and mindfulness practices, she became driven to find more compassionate and accessible treatment for OCD. Melissa has developed an integrative approach that utilizes an IFS framework to provide evidence-based exposure therapy for OCD. She is an international speaker and educator on obsessive compulsive disorder and its treatment, and she is currently the president of the board of directors of OCD Southern California, an affiliate of the International OCD Foundation. In her role on the board of OCD SoCal advocates for individuals with OCD, hosts speakers’ series, trainings, and one of largest virtual OCD conferences worldwide. It is her mission to raise awareness, improve early identification and greater treatment accessibility for individuals with OCD and their families.
Resources for The Hidden Parts of OCD: ERP, IFS, and Self-Leadership with Melissa Mose (303)
Melissa's website - Resources & information
IFS for OCD Clinician's Guide - Melissa's book - Internal Family Systems for OCD: A Clinician's Guide

www.OCDSoCal.org - Melissa is president of OCD Southern California

Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!
Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others. Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A's! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

You are invited!
Join our exclusive community to get early access and discounts to things we produce, plus an ad-free, private feed. In addition, receive exclusive episodes recorded just for you. Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

Get your copy of Secure Relating here!!

Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all!

A coffee alternative with 4 adaptogenic mushrooms and ayurvedic herbs. With only a fraction of caffeine as a cup of coffee, you get energy without the anxiety, jitters, or crash of coffee
Go to mudwtr.com/tu to support the show and use code TU for 15% off

Patreon/Supercast Special Release –
Bonus - Living Beyond the OCD Loop with Ally Kristan (302)
This is a sneak peek of our episode with Ally Kristan, and part two of our three part series on OCD – available only on our Premium Supercast and Patreon platforms. For as little as $5/month you can have access to special releases like this one, first-to-know about upcoming events and discounts and an ad-free feed.
Click here to join & finish the episode!!

What is OCD really like beyond the stereotypes?
In part two of our three part series on deepening the understanding OCD, Marine biologist and author Ally Kristan shares her lifelong experience living with OCD, challenging common misconceptions that reduce the disorder to cleanliness or organization. Ally discusses the intrusive thoughts, compulsions, shame, and relentless search for certainty that characterize OCD, as well as the relief of finally receiving a diagnosis and effective support. Together, Ally and Dr. Ann Kelley explore themes of control, uncertainty, mindfulness, relationships, self-compassion, and how healing can come from understanding—not fighting—the parts of ourselves that struggle. The episode offers an honest, hopeful look at living with OCD and finding ways to transform fear into meaning and connection.

"We're not out of touch with reality. We know that what we're doing doesn't make sense, but we just can't help doing it anyway." - Ally Kristan

Time Stamps for Bonus - Living Beyond the OCD Loop with Ally Kristan (302)
06:34 Personal journey: Discovering my OCD
11:34 Therapeutic insights: The role of specialists
16:19 The OCD loop: Understanding the cycle
23:01 Transforming OCD: Finding positive outlets
31:03 Radical acceptance and its challenges
35:10 Finding Authenticity in Confrontation
42:23 Transforming compulsions into positive rituals
52:28 The balance of reassurance in relationships
55:59 The intersection of OCD and career choices
58:00 Lessons from penguins: Resilience and love
01:00:54 Conservation concerns: The krill catastrophe
01:07:28 Coping tools and resources for OCD
About our Guest - Ally Kristan
Ally Kristan is a marine conservation biologist, Antarctic expert and OCD advocate originally from Raleigh, North Carolina. She holds a B.S. in Marine Biology from UNC Wilmington and an M.S. in Oceanography & Coastal Sciences from Louisiana State University. A salient voice for wildlife protection, Ally has appeared in National Public Radio (NPR), National Audubon Society and Hakai Magazine. Her work has brought her from a sea turtle hospital in North Carolina to whale watch boats in Maui to raucous seabird colonies in Florida, then from the U.S. National Science Foundation in Washington D.C. to McMurdo Station, Antarctica. Ally now resides on the North Carolina coast where, when not working in the lab, she can be found amongst animals.

Resources for Living Beyond the OCD Loop with Ally Kristan (302)
Ally Kristan's website - Additional resources & information

Get your copy of her book, "Braving the Waves" here!!

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You can't think your way out of OCD
In part one of our three-part series on Anxiety and OCD, Dr. Jon Abramowitz helps us understand why intrusive thoughts are normal, how OCD turns them into a source of distress, and what keeps the cycle going. We explore uncertainty, reassurance-seeking, relationship dynamics, and the research-backed treatments that help people reclaim their lives from OCD.In this conversation, we unpack the surprising truth about intrusive thoughts, why reassurance often backfires, and how learning to tolerate uncertainty can be a powerful path toward recovery.

"There is no such thing as absolute certainty." - Dr. Jon Abramowitz

Time Stamps for Why Certainty Isn't the Answer: OCD, Intrusive Thoughts & Recovery with Dr. Jon Abramowitz (301)
02:40 Understanding anxiety and its disorders
05:46 Distinguishing normal anxiety from OCD
08:21 The nature of obsessional thoughts
14:09 The cycle of OCD and compulsions
16:53 The role of exposure and response prevention
19:44 Understanding scrupulosity in OCD
25:25 Treatment approaches for OCD
33:34 Managing distress in OCD therapy
36:55 Understanding control and uncertainty in OCD
40:41 Distinguishing OCD from Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder
50:02 Supporting loved ones with OCD
About our Guest - Dr. Jon Abramowitz (301)
Jonathan (Jon) Abramowitz, Ph.D., is Professor and Director of Clinical Training in the Department of Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. His research and clinical work focuses on obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) and anxiety disorders, including fears and phobias, health anxiety, and panic attacks. He has authored over 350 scientific publications and 20 books, which have been translated into several languages. He served as President of the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies and as Editor or Associate Editor of several academic journals. Dr. Abramowitz has received wide recognition for his scholarly work and contributions.

Resources for Why Certainty Isn't the Answer: OCD, Intrusive Thoughts & Recovery with Dr. Jon Abramowitz (301)
Dr. Abramowitz website - Resources and information

OCD resources for clinicians and consumers
Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!
Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others. Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A's! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

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Join our exclusive community to get early access and discounts to things we produce, plus an ad-free, private feed. In addition, receive exclusive episodes recorded just for you. Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

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Celebrating 300 episodes with one of the hardest relationship skills: feedback.
Sue and Ann reflect on a decade of podcasting and dive into one of the the most challenging parts of any relationship: giving and receiving feedback. Through candid personal stories, humor, and clinical insight, they explore how attachment history, defensiveness, trauma, and vulnerability shape the way we handle conflict and communication. This conversation explains why feedback can feel so threatening, how couples get stuck arguing facts instead of feelings, and why repair—not perfection—is the foundation of healthy relationships.

"Feedback is a bid for connection." - Sue Marriott, LCSW CGP

Time Stamps for 300 Episodes In: Why Feedback Is So Hard (300)
01:56 The challenge of feedback: Giving and receiving
07:29 Understanding the difficulty of giving feedback
11:06 The fear of feedback: Avoidance and anticipation
16:15 The overestimation of awareness: Why we hold back
26:32 Navigating the receiving end of feedback
32:34 Impact over intent: The key to effective communication
34:54 Navigating feedback and racial sensitivity
41:08 Defensiveness in relationships
52:09 The role of trauma in relationships

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Go to mudwtr.com/tu to support the show and use code TU for 15% off

Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!
Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others. Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A's! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

You are invited!
Join our exclusive community to get early access and discounts to things we produce, plus an ad-free, private feed. In addition, receive exclusive episodes recorded just for you. Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

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Sex can feel complicated when our parts get involved
Patricia Rich introduces the concept of self-led sexuality — approaching sexuality from curiosity, compassion, and connection rather than fear or conditioning. She explains how understanding our internal “parts” can help individuals navigate conflicting desires, deepen consent, and create greater safety within themselves and their relationships. Explore the complexities of sexuality, emphasizing the importance of self-led sexuality and the integration of Internal Family Systems (IFS) in sexual therapy. The conversation also examines the broader cultural forces that influence sexuality, including capitalism, gender expectations, and the silence many therapists themselves experience around sexual topics. Grounded in both clinical insight and humanity, this episode offers a refreshing framework for understanding sexuality as a space for healing, embodiment, and authentic connection.

"Listening to our desires doesn't mean we have to act on them all. Simply acknowledging the parts of ourselves who hold those desires and validating their longings can bring inner connection and vitality." - Patricia Rich, LCSW CST-S

Time Stamps for Bonus - Self-Led Sexuality: Reclaiming Intimacy Through IFS with Patricia Rich, LCSW CST-S (299)
01:51 The challenges of discussing sexuality
07:53 Integrating IFS into sexual therapy
13:39 The positive intentions of our parts
22:17 Self-led sexuality: Leading from within
28:01 Therapists' relationship with sexuality
35:51 The six S's of sexual self-energy
40:28 Creating Safety in Sexual Conversations
45:03 Exploring sensuality and its barriers
01:01:10 Exploring exiled parts and performance pressure
01:05:07 The concept of internal consent
01:11:36 Cultural influences on sexuality and self-perception

About our Guest - Patricia Rich, LCSW, CST-S (She/Her)

Patricia Rich, LCSW, CST-S (she/her) is an IFS Institute Certified Level 3 IFS Therapist and Approved Consultant and an AASECT Certified Sex Therapist and Supervisor. She has developed a unique integrative model for Self-Led Sexuality to help people findmore ease, joy, and confidence in the bedroom and beyond. She has originated IFS- informed concepts such as Internal Consent and The Six S’s of Sexual Self-Energy. Patty has presented at the IFS Annual Conference, taught a module for the IFS Institute Online Continuity program, led workshops internationally, and authored a chapter in Altogether Us: Integrating the IFS Model with Key Modalities, Communities and Trends. She offers training and consultation to professionals and loves helping people to BeHold and Lead their Internal Sexual Systems (BLISS)TM. She hosts “Self-Led in Bed: An IFS & Sexuality Podcast” and lives in the Philadelphia area where she also has a private practice. You can get her free guide to The Six S’s and learn more about her offerings at www.patriciarich.com or follow her on Instagram @patriciarichconsulting.
Resources for Bonus - Self-Led Sexuality: Reclaiming Intimacy Through IFS with Patricia Rich, LCSW CST-S (299)
Self-Led in Bed: An IFS & Sexuality Podcast - Patricia's podcast

Patricia's website - Information & resources

IFS Integration: A Comprehensive Guide to Applying Internal Family Systems Across Modalities, Populations, and Clinical Presentations - Check out Patricia's chapter in this book

Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!
Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others. Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A's! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

What does it mean to belong to more than one world at once?
Sahaj Kohli—founder of Brown Girl Therapy and author of What Will People Say?—explores the emotional complexity of bicultural identity, the immigrant experience, and the hidden pressures of being “culturally enough.” Together, we explore how culture shapes mental health, why many therapy models miss the mark for marginalized communities, and what truly culturally responsive care can look like. Sahaj also shares how social media became a lifeline for connection, community, and healing for people navigating multiple identities. This episode offers powerful insight for therapists, helpers, and anyone balancing family expectations, identity, and belonging across cultures.

"Collectives are made of individuals, and we can't be our best selves within those collectives and in those roles if we are not also taking care of ourselves. Yet we can't be our best selves as individuals without considering the collective and our communities.” - Sahaj Kohli

Time Stamps for Between Two Worlds: Navigating Bicultural Identity with Sahaj Kohli (298)
03:46 Cultural identity and the immigrant experience
07:28 The birth of Brown Girl Therapy
11:22 Understanding the dominant narrative
15:07 Cultural differences in communication and boundaries
19:05 Cultural responsiveness in therapy
26:49 The burden of cultural "enoughness"
29:11 Navigating pride and shame in biculturalism
31:08 Grief and loss in cultural transition
39:20 Resources for bicultural and multicultural understanding
About our Guest - Sahaj Kohli MA.Ed, LGPC, NCC
Sahaj Kohli by Beowulf Sheehan

Sahaj Kaur Kohli MA.Ed, LGPC, NCC is an award-winning therapist and mental health educator. She is the founder of Brown Girl Therapy (@browngirltherapy), the first and largest mental health and wellness community organization for adult children of immigrants, an advice columnist for the Washington Post, and host and creator of the limited series podcast, So We’ve Been Told. Sahaj is also author of the book, "But What Will People Say: Navigating Mental Health, Identity, Love and Family Between Cultures" named one of Audible’s “best of” in 2024. With a 6+ year career in journalism under her belt, Sahaj's passion lies at the intersection of narrative storytelling and mental health advocacy. You can follow Sahaj’s writing on Substack: Culturally Enough. is a resource for the community and The Bicultural Brief is a resource for clinicians who want to be more culturally responsive in their care. Sahaj’s words and work have been featured across media, like in Today, NPR, Good Morning America, CNN, The New York Times, and others. Sahaj also serves as a corporate consultant, educator and international speaker.
Resources for Between Two Worlds: Navigating Bicultural Identity with Sahaj Kohli (298)
@BrownGirlTherapy - Sahaj's Instagram profile

Sahaj's Website - Resources, information, events & more

But What Will People Say? Navigating Mental Health, Identity, Love, and Family Between Cultures - Get your copy today!!

Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!
Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others. Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A's! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

You are invited!
Join our exclusive community to get early access and discounts to things we produce, plus an ad-free, private feed. In addition, receive exclusive episodes recorded just for you. Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!
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Therapist and author Oona Metz draws on three decades of experience supporting women through divorce. She breaks down the emotional arc of separation through her five-phase model, offering a clear lens into the grief, upheaval, and eventual growth that can unfold. The episode also explores common misconceptions, practical guidance for clinicians and individuals, and the powerful role of support groups in the healing process. Listen now at TherapistUncensored.com/TU297

Explore the role of equanimity, mindfulness, and compassion in navigating an increasingly complex world. Special guest
Margaret Cullen alongside co-host Sue Marriott discuss the evolution of mindfulness in modern culture, the foundations of compassion-based practices, and how these approaches can support resilience and emotional balance. Grounded in both clinical insight and lived practice, this conversation offers a thoughtful, accessible perspective on cultivating steadiness and clarity in the midst of ongoing challenges. Listen to the full episode now at TherapistUncensored.com/TU296