Distance To Empty

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Open Fuel: Code DISTANCE for 20% off

Nickademus de La Rosa is back on Distance to Empty! Since his last visit in 2024, Nick has finished his master’s in sports and performance psychology, moved to Canada, and launched Imperfect Mental Performance. He and Kevin compare brutal European 200s like Tor des Géants and Swiss Peaks 360 with the US 200 scene. They cover why these races keep getting faster and why the “specialist” is dead. They also get into how training theory has shifted from pure vert to running economy to fatigue resistance. Nick shares his favorite sports-psych tools: separating self-worth from performance, racing from curiosity, and setting a goal your ego hates. Plus: Kevin’s 100-mile PR at Canal Corridor, Peter’s 73 untrained miles, and an updated take on whether Tor is harder than Barkley.

Show Notes

In this episode

• What Nick’s been up to: graduating from University of Western States, moving to Canada (and getting turned around at the border with a U-Haul), and working with endurance athletes on the mental game
• How Nick’s approach has shifted from Internal Family Systems toward CBT and behavior chains, using “the lower dose” when that’s all an athlete needs
• Kevin’s 18:21 100-mile PR at Canal Corridor, and why low-pressure races create room for curiosity, joy, and presence
• Hot takes from Tor des Géants and Swiss Peaks 360: faster finishing times, top 100-milers moving to 200s, and sleep strategies (early naps vs. 15–20 minute micro-naps)
• Mammoth 200: Kevin finished ninth in 58 hours with zero sleep, and the front of the pack is tighter than ever
• The culture gap: social media and the “hybrid athlete” crowd at US 200s vs. European races, plus thoughts on the Moab 240 cancellation
• Mental prep for long races: appraising your abilities accurately, managing expectations, and fighting the “existential pointlessness” of days three and four (“this inch still matters on day four”)
• Looking back at Kevin’s 2023 Tor: hitting an emotional low six miles in, and what he’d do differently
• Training evolution: big vert, then running economy, then fatigue resistance and durability. Can you still climb at the same pace in hour five of a six-hour day?
• Why the long descents are the hardest thing to prepare for in the US, and why training on the course is the real secret
• Nick’s litmus test for anyone eyeing Tor: a three-day block of steep repeats on 1,000 ft/mile climbs
• “If your ego hates the goal, you’ve appraised it correctly”
• Kevin’s upcoming Oslo Bergen Trail 500K
• Revisiting Nick’s claim that Tor is harder than Barkley: “easier to finish” vs. “easier”

Coaching with Distance to Empty

• Full Tank tier on Patreon ($119/month): light-touch personalized coaching with a plan built for you, plus bonus episodes and Discord access. It’s the first link in the show notes.
• One-on-one coaching with Kevin for the 2027 season

Sponsors & Swag

• TrainingPeaks: Sign up for a free account at trainingpeaks.com, show us, and we’ll send you bib boards. (Kevin works at TrainingPeaks in the Coach Match program.)
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Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

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The turn has tabled! This time Peter interviews Kevin about his Badwater 135. After years of saying he'd never run it, Kevin crewed Francis in 2024 and Peter in 2025, then decided he had to see what it felt like to cross Death Valley on foot. He started the 9 PM wave feeling the best he'd ever felt in a race. He ran sub-10 miles in 118°F heat and hit mile 50 by sunrise. Around mile 20, though, a mild pain in his lower left shin started and steadily got worse. He held on through Towne Pass, Father Crowley, and the long flat stretch to Lone Pine, reached mile 100 in under 21 hours, and ground up the Whitney Portal Road to finish in just under 31 hours. A few hours later, the ER in Lone Pine diagnosed cellulitis.

We also cover:

• Kevin's 18-hour, 21-minute 100-mile PR and Western States qualifier at Canal Corridor 100, and Peter's truly untrained 73 miles
• Heat acclimation from altitude training in Leadville plus sauna sessions
• Kevin's fueling plan: about 70g of carbs per hour with Open Fuel and gels
• The Badwater hotel puzzle that comes before the race itself
• Peter's birthday unicycle
• Starlink in Death Valley, walkie-talkie mischief, and Chris's homemade battery-powered misting pack
• A surprise dinosaur in Lone Pine
• The ER trip, a "syphilis" scare, and a recovery drive to Bishop (with a stop at Schat's)

Welcome, Open Fuel! We're excited to announce Open Fuel as our newest sponsor. Use code DISTANCE for 20% off.

Our other partners:

• Mount to Coast: Use code DISTANCE. Kevin and the crew ran in the Badwater-edition C135s.
• Janji: In the post-purchase survey, select "Podcast," then "Distance to Empty."
• TrainingPeaks: Create a free account and send us your welcome email, and we'll mail you some Distance to Empty bib boards.

Swag: Send a screenshot of your receipt or survey to @distancetoemptypod on Instagram or distancetoemptypod@gmail.com for free swag. Options include new "Normalize Crying in Ultras" hats, "Have a Nice Run" shirts, and bib boards. For a limited time, any Open Fuel, Mount to Coast, or Janji order over $50 also gets you one of Kevin's TrainingPeaks training plans of your choice, free.

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Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

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Moab 240 2026 Course Preview: Every Section, Every Change, with Head Trail Marker Jameson Collins

The Moab 240 starts this week, and we've got a full section-by-section breakdown of the 2026 course. Kevin is joined by Jameson Collins, head trail marker for Destination Trail. Jameson is a two-time Moab finisher and has spent this week out marking the course, so he has current, on-the-ground details on what runners will face.

Kevin and Jameson cover every leg from the arch in downtown Moab, through the desert of Lockhart Basin, up into the Abajos and the La Sals, and back to town. They rate each section from 1 to 5, ski-slope style, so runners know when they're on a green run and when they're on a double black. They also go through what's new this year:

• The start moves back to 6 AM, and they explain the reasoning behind it.
• There's a new 3-liter minimum water carry out of Base Camp, with a 1-liter maximum top-off at the Lockhart water stop. They explain why it exists and how much water you should actually carry.
• Drop bags are now available at Base Camp and the Oasis.
• Bridger Jack is a new sleep station.
• The fire reroute has been cleared. Runners will still pass through burn areas on Shea and the climb from Shea to Monticello Lake.
• Green and yellow crew groups apply at Shea Mountain and Monticello Lake, along with the pacer drop-off rules.
• The final section has a construction detour. Runners now come down through Sand Flats and the Falcon Flow trail and finish by running through downtown Moab.

Along the way you'll hear about the Oasis "mirage," the double climb on Shea, why Road 46 might be the most important aid station on the course, and Jameson's advice for crews: get out and enjoy Moab while you wait.

In the outro, Peter Noyes is back with his top tip for the race (spoiler: sleep at Road 46), a message for runners listening mid-race, a quick round of Let's Get Deep, and some questionable prep for his own 100-miler this weekend.

Chapters (main episode)
00:00 Intro with Jameson Collins
02:46 What's new for 2026
07:03 Rating system and Start → Hidden Valley
12:21 Hidden Valley → Amasa Back
19:53 Amasa Back → Base Camp (Jackson's Ladder)
25:10 Base Camp → Oasis via Lockhart (water carry rules)
33:30 Oasis → Indian Creek
35:40 Indian Creek → The Island
40:56 The Island → Bridger Jack
46:23 Bridger Jack → Shea Mountain
51:40 Green and yellow crew groups explained
55:31 Shea Mountain → Monticello Lake
58:29 Monticello Lake → Dry Valley
1:01:27 Dry Valley → Needles → Road 46
1:05:23 Road 46 → Pole Canyon
1:09:32 Pole Canyon → Geyser Pass
1:14:48 Geyser Pass → Porcupine Rim
1:19:02 Porcupine Rim → Finish (new 2026 route)
1:24:10 Closing advice
Outro: Peter's tips, a message for runners on course, and Let's Get Deep

Support the show and get free swag
Place an order with Mount to Coast using code DISTANCE for 10% off, or order from Janji and select "Podcast → Distance to Empty" at checkout. Then send your receipt screenshot, size, and address to @distancetoemptypod on Instagram or distancetoemptypod@gmail.com. If you order or leave a review while you're out on the Moab course, we'll send you something extra special.

Join our Patreon for the Discord community and bonus content. It's the first link in the show notes.

Good luck out there, Moab runners. Stay in the fight.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

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Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

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Meet the Mammoths — Bailey Gripshover: The ICU, the PCT, and the Potato Lifestyle

Today's guest spends her working life in a cardiothoracic ICU in Seattle, with patients having the worst days of their lives. When she's not there, she's choosing to suffer on trails — a contrast she says keeps everything in perspective when a race doesn't go the way she hoped.

Bailey Gripshover finished top 10 in her 200-mile debut at Cocodona 250 this past May, and held the lead in the inaugural MBA at Mingus for a while after sinking a shot she fully expected to miss. This October she's back for a second crack at the distance at Mammoth.

We talk about what it's like running these races with a medical background: knowing when to pull the plug on an Arizona Trail FKT attempt because of a swollen Achilles, and also completely botching her own electrolytes at Javelina despite managing electrolyte imbalances at work every single day. She also makes a strong case for being the best-prepared person in the field on sleep — 12-to-14-hour ICU shifts, flip-flopping between days and nights, operating at a high level while exhausted because there isn't another option.

Plus: how hiking the PCT in 2019 introduced her to the idea that people race these distances at all, why the Eastern Sierra is family terrain (her grandpa did the JMT, and she summited Whitney with her mom and sister for her mom's 60th), and her Mammoth 200 video game result — currently second on our leaderboard at 68 hours, after a first attempt where she DNF'd because her feet disintegrated on the pumice. She is now, genuinely, reconsidering gaiters.

In this episode:

• Perspective from the ICU, and why it's "just running"
• When medical knowledge helps, and when it doesn't
• Shift work as accidental sleep-deprivation training
• Four hours of sleep and almost no hallucinations at Cocodona
• A virtual DNF by foot destruction, and a potential gaiter conversion
• Making a basket at Mingus and riding the high
• Her prediction: this will have the best aid station food in ultrarunning
• Peter's preferred potato orientation

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

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Kevin and Peter break down the 2026 Mammoth 200 course, just days before race weekend. Kevin ran the race last year and shares his memories of each section, while Peter, who hasn't run it, serves as emotional support co-host. They cover what's changed for 2026 and go through the course section by section, with difficulty ratings, crew tips, and where things get tough.

What's new in 2026

• Start time is 9 AM, an hour later than last year, and the race is a week later in the calendar
• The course is now billed at 218 miles (up from 214), and the cutoff has been extended to 109 hours
• GU Energy Labs replaces Never Second as the nutrition sponsor, and all aid stations are cupless
• Duck Pass (mile 17) is now water only
• The first crew-accessible stop is now CRC at mile 24, about 8 miles sooner than last year's Sherwin Creek
• The longest gap between aid stations is now 15.4 miles (CRC to Convict Lake)
• Crowley Lake has moved to the ball field
• Green Church is now Watterson Summit
• Lee Vining has moved to Gus Hess Community Park, with an outdoor sleep station
• Runners now pass under Highway 395 at the Rush Creek Overpass instead of crossing with a crossing guard
• Walker Lake is now a full aid station
• There's a new water drop at the bottom of the Parker Bench descent
• June Lake Junction replaces Obsidian Dome, and Upper Deadman (Glass Creek) replaces Inyo Craters
• The indoor Main Lodge aid station (mile 207) replaces Minaret Vista, followed by a steeper, shorter climb to the summit

The course by the numbers

• 218 miles, roughly 31,000 feet of gain and loss
• High point of 11,053 feet, with an average elevation around 8,000 feet
• A loop around a caldera roughly 760,000 years old

Section-by-section highlights

• Village to CRC: the Dragon's Back descent is the most technical part of the course
• CRC to Crowley Lake: a hot valley-floor gravel road, then the Convict Lake loop at sunset
• Crowley Lake to Watterson Summit: sandy, punchy double track and the Lion's Den tunnel
• Watterson to Sawmill to Taylor Canyon: some of the hardest miles on the course, with pumice, exposure, and a non-crew aid station
• Taylor Canyon to Crater Mountain: fast, runnable double track through Jeffrey pine forest
• Crater Mountain to Lee Vining: moonscape views, a long descent, and one easy-to-miss turn
• Lee Vining to Upper Deadman: Parker Bench, an overgrown descent, and a steep climb out of June Lake
• The final push: Main Lodge, the summit, and a 3,000-foot descent to the village

Kevin and Peter also share crew logistics, including a reminder to double-check driving directions to Watterson Summit and Crooked Meadows, since Google Maps often gets them wrong. They wrap up with advice for the weekend: be ready for anything the Sierra weather throws at you, and keep troubleshooting.

Important: Always verify details against the current official race and course manual, since changes often happen after recording.

Also mentioned

• The Canal Corridor Hundred on October 10, where Kevin and Peter are running
• The free Oregon Trail-style Mammoth video game (link in show notes)
• The Meet the Mammoth series and last year's course preview with Hillary

Sponsors

• Janji: Order, choose "podcast" then "Distance to Empty" on the post-purchase survey, and send us a screenshot for free Distance to Empty swag.
• Mount to Coast: Use code DISTANCE for 10% off.

Support the show: Check out our Patreon for coaching options (first link in the show notes).

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

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Meet the Mammoths — Amber Weibel: Second Place, and Back for More

Amber ran her first official 200-mile race last year at Mammoth and finished in 55 hours and 40 minutes, second place female. She holds fastest known times on both the Tahoe Rim Trail and the John Muir Trail. And with one week to go until the 2026 race, she's back.

Amber Weibel joins us to talk about picking Mammoth because it let her kids finish out their school week before driving down to crew — a genuinely practical reason that says a lot about where she is in her life right now. She describes what a race feels like after years of unsupported FKTs, where nobody is waiting at the next aid station and the energy bump of seeing family simply doesn't exist. Mammoth, she says, was strangely hard, and her husband had never seen her in a low quite like the one she hit on night two.

We get into the question that's been nagging at us since we researched this episode: she's run the Tahoe Rim Trail both supported and unsupported, and the crewed version was only 22 minutes faster. Her answer is about what a level playing field actually looks like, and why she'd rather be in the wilderness on her own.

She also explains the lie she told herself all the way around the Mammoth course last year, her path from cyclist to Ultraman world champion to trail running, why she'll happily spend four minutes changing shoes to avoid blisters, and her Mammoth 200 video game result — which she'll admit came after a first attempt she describes as embarrassingly slow.

In this episode:

• Picking a race that fits around an 8- and 9-year-old's school week
• Unsupported FKTs versus a supported 200, and what changes
• Twenty-two minutes: what a crew is actually for
• The lie she kept telling herself at Mammoth last year
• Four pairs of shoes, zero blisters
• A 105-hour first attempt at the video game, and a much better second
• Her non-placement goal: showing her kids what working through hard things looks like
• A weather prediction from someone who got caught in lightning on the second summit

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

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Meet the Mammoths — Gabe Joyes: 200-Mile Curious, Properly Intimidated

Today's guest has raced almost everything this sport has to offer. Gabe Joyes has been top 10 at Hardrock, runner-up at HURT 100 this past January, and finished the Dragon's Back Race, the 240-mile stage race across Wales. He's a coach at Uphill Athlete and a race director himself. What he's never done is a continuous, single-push 200 — until this October.

Gabe joins us to explain why he's been "200-mile curious" for years but properly intimidated, and why the Mammoth course was the one that finally got him to sign up. He also has a compelling theory about what these races actually are: not eating competitions, but problem-solving competitions, where the plan holds for some unknown number of hours and everything after that is jazz.

We also get into something few runners have had to reckon with. A few years ago Gabe fell on his trekking pole while running downhill fast, nearly bled to death on the trail, and was helicoptered to a hospital. He talks openly about how long it took to move past that, why he still uses poles, and the one rule he's never broken since: he does not run downhill with them out. Ever.

Plus: sleep strategy after a 47-hour unsupported Wind River High Route push that went sideways past hour 40, a refreshingly honest answer about having six shoes still in contention a month out, and the single best homework excuse of the series — Gabe outsourced his Mammoth 200 video game playthrough to his 11- and 14-year-old kids, who ran five or six attempts, posted times between 88 and 96 hours, and logged exactly one DNF.

In this episode:

• Why Mammoth was the course worth breaking the 200 seal for
• Plans, chaos, and treating a race as a problem-solving competition
• The trekking pole accident, and how he uses poles now
• Caffeine, hallucinations, and what happens past hour 40
• Six shoes, one month out, zero decisions made
• Homework delegated to the kids (a 100% honest disclosure)
• His non-placement goal: making sure his crew has a good time
• A prediction about the stories that'll come out of race weekend

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

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Meet the Mammoths — Jake Jackson: Round Two

Today's guest is no stranger to this distance. Jake Jackson finished the inaugural Mammoth 200 last September, has run Cocodona more than once, and is a husband, a father of three, and a UPS driver — who is, for the record, recording this episode from his truck on his lunch break.

Jake joins us to talk about what it's like standing on that start line the second time, knowing exactly what the course is going to do to you. He also had a front-row seat to one of Kevin's worst falls in ultrarunning, around mile 11 coming off Mammoth Mountain, and describes watching the whole thing unfold in slow motion.

He's honest about last year: stomach issues on night one that wrecked his nutrition plan, running the whole thing solo without crew or pacers, and seeing Mono Lake and Obsidian Dome entirely in the dark. He finished — but says he's yet to complete a 200 and feel like he actually nailed it, rather than dragging a dead body across the line. This year he's going solo again, and the goal is to finish feeling accomplished instead of just finished.

Plus, the best homework story of the series: Jake emailed his game result at 3:52pm, then emailed better game results four hours later after knocking it down to sub-70 — and admits it was eating at him at work all afternoon. He also discovered that running as an influencer is faster than running as an elite athlete, mostly because he refused to stop for photos.

In this episode:

• Knowing too much versus knowing nothing on a start line
• Kevin's slow-motion fall on the Dragon's Back descent
• Night one stomach problems and a solo race in the dark
• Why he's never finished a 200 feeling like he got it right
• A training block he's honest about, and why that might be a good sign
• Three game attempts, two emails, and a sub-70 finish
• H1s last year, M1s this year
• A prediction squarely aimed at aid station food

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

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Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

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Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Elliot Chisholm: 18 Years Old, Two Cocodonas, and a First 200 Ahead

Today's guest has been on this podcast before. So has his whole family. Elliot Chisholm hiked the Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail, and the Continental Divide Trail with his mom and three brothers — the full Triple Crown — before most people his age have a driver's license. He's 18, and as far as we can tell, the youngest entrant in this year's Mammoth 200. He's also still looking for his first 200-mile finish.

Elliot joins us to talk about how the family stumbled into this sport in 2023, watching Cocodona from afar with a friend and realizing that a race combining running and fast hiking was exactly what they'd already been doing across the country.

He's honest about both Cocodona attempts: going into 2025 sick at sixteen, throwing up everything he ate, and dropping somewhere past Crown King. Then coming back in 2026, getting his sodium badly wrong, developing rhabdo, and having his body shut down at mile 150 even as his mind wanted to keep going. Forty-something miles to a hundred and fifty in a single year — and a lot learned about nutrition and problem-solving along the way.

Mammoth is different: he's blazing the trail for his family this time, nobody's run it before him. He talks about training for runnable terrain instead of the jagged White Mountains he trains on in New Hampshire, heading to altitude from 400 feet of elevation, and why he plans to start the race in road shoes.

Plus: his virtual Mammoth 200 finish of 73 hours currently sits third on our leaderboard, his brother Asher helped him make decisions along the way, and he's pre-committed to the Mammoth Basketball League.

In this episode:

• The Triple Crown, and finding ultrarunning by accident
• Two Cocodona DNFs, a stomach bug and a case of rhabdo
• Why Mammoth, and blazing a trail ahead of his family for once
• Training for runnable terrain in the White Mountains
• Sea-level kid heading to altitude
• Third place on the game leaderboard
• A prediction: questioning every decision that led him to the start line — and looking forward to it

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Jill Dennes: Thirteen Hundreds, and Now the Next Thing

Today's guest is a personal trainer and ultrarunning coach out of Nashville who has quietly built one of the more impressive résumés on the Eastern trail circuit — a runner-up overall finish at the Black Hills 100, a start at UTMB last year, and wins and podiums up and down the East. She's run roughly thirteen hundred-milers. She has never gone 200 miles in a single push. That changes this October.

Jill Dennes joins us to talk about why, after that many hundreds, the 200 felt like the only thing left to try — and the refreshingly honest reason she picked Mammoth: it had the shortest waitlist, so she got in first. (Naturally, she then got off almost every other waitlist she was on.)

We get into what UTMB taught her, including a race that started in light rain and turned into a full blizzard, and why a Pennsylvania upbringing on "Rocksylvania" trails still didn't prepare her for Chamonix. She also talks about practicing what she preaches as a coach: consistency, strength training three to four days a week, and the simple rule of getting the race on the calendar so the training actually happens.

For a first 200, her approach is proudly loose. She barely studies the course, doesn't have a sleep plan, has never really hallucinated, and is heading from Nashville's roughly 500 feet of elevation to the Sierra. She's winging it on purpose — and explains why expectations can do more harm than good.

Plus: a former high school point guard enters the Mammoth Basketball League, asks whether made shots come with time bonuses, and reveals a sweet tooth that may be the most dangerous thing in her crew bag.

In this episode:

• Thirteen hundreds, and why the 200 was the natural next step
• Picking Mammoth for the shortest waitlist
• UTMB, a mid-race blizzard, and preparing for anything
• Coaching consistency, strength work, and getting it on the calendar
• No sleep plan, no hallucinations yet, and a sea-level runner heading to altitude
• Homework not done, and a point guard ready for the MBL
• Finish-line firsts: pizza, a burger, sour candy, and a shower
• Her non-placement goal: keeping her gut happy for 200 miles

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Yassine Diboun: Twenty Years In, One Day at a Time

Today's guest represented the United States at the 2015 IAU Trail World Championships, where his team came home with silver. He's finished Western States multiple times, podiumed at HURT 100, and just completed his 20th hundred-miler at Bighorn this past June. He's also built one of the most respected trail communities in the country through Wy'east Wolfpack in Portland — and he's more than twenty years into recovery from addiction.

Yassine Diboun joins us to talk about why, two decades into this sport, Mammoth is the thing that finally gave him butterflies again. He tells the full story behind a moment at Hardrock in 2023: sprained ankle, deep in a funk on a hot dirt road, when a runner pulled alongside to say he'd heard Yassine talk about his drinking on a podcast and had just hit five years sober. (The runner then dropped him. Yassine passed him back at mile 88.)

We get into the parallels between recovery and ultrarunning — one day at a time, one aid station at a time — plus the origins of Wy'east Wolfpack, and Run TRG, the free running program he built with Portland's Alano Club for people in or seeking recovery. He also describes Move Through Darkness, the December sunset-to-sunrise run he started after a member of the community took his own life, and the year it poured for fifteen straight hours.

Mammoth will be his first 200-mile race, though not his first multi-day effort — he ran the entire Oregon section of the PCT, roughly 450 miles, about a decade ago. Sleep is the thing he genuinely doesn't know about yet, to the point that he's had an anxiety dream about negotiating a nap with his own crew.

Plus: Yassine took our Mingus basketball idea and ran his own version at an aid station in Oregon, where it was such a hit his race directors made it a permanent fixture. He's one of the few guests who arrives already knowing what he's in for — and he's calling his shot for a three-pointer at Mammoth.

In this episode:

• Why a 200 now, after 20 hundred-milers
• The runner at Hardrock, and why he stopped keeping his recovery private
• Wy'east Wolfpack, Run TRG, and Move Through Darkness
• 450 miles on the Oregon PCT and what it did and didn't teach him about sleep
• A dream about convincing his crew to let him sleep
• Basketball at aid stations, and the Mingus idea going national
• A prediction: good weather, sub-60, and a three-pointer

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Cole Crosby: From Pacer to Racer

Today's guest holds the course record for the Vermont 100K and the fastest known time on the 230-mile Bay Circuit Trail around Boston. He's run over 224 miles in 48 hours at Across the Years. And this past July, he became the first Rhode Islander ever to finish Badwater 135 — with Kevin somewhere out on that same course behind him.

Last October, Cole was at Mammoth 200 but not racing it. He was keeping Kevin company late in the race, pacing him through a stretch of not sleeping at all. This year he's on the other side of it.

Cole joins us to talk about what he took from watching a race fall apart in real time, the strange work of transitioning from Badwater's hyper-specific pavement training back into trail legs, and why running punchy, rocky, endlessly up-and-down terrain in Rhode Island may be better Mammoth prep than it sounds.

We also get one of the best video game stories of the series so far: Cole was on pace for a mid-50-hour virtual finish — a time Kevin still hasn't managed — when a pop-up appeared near the second-to-last aid station. He scrolled, tapped without reading, and was immediately disqualified for accepting aid outside an aid station. His wife Ashley, meanwhile, finished in the low 60s on her very first try, which Cole attributes to thirteen years of crewing him.

Plus: the MBA's expansion structure gets formalized (Mingus is the league, Mammoth gets the MBL), Cole reveals a free-throw percentage in the high 80s, and we float a future episode on the psychology of fun in ultrarunning.

In this episode:

• Pacing at Mammoth last year and what it taught him about racing it
• Post-Badwater recovery and getting trail legs back
• Rhode Island training terrain and why it maps well to Mammoth
• The DNF heard round the world: reading the fine print in a video game

• Jerseys, free throws, and the birth of the Mammoth Basketball League
• A course record prediction, and why tactics may matter more than early speed

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Ethan Herrera: Round Two on a Course That Humbled Him

Today's guest was one of roughly ninety people who finished the inaugural Mammoth 200 back in September 2025 — before any of us knew what this course actually demanded. He's kept racing well since, including a strong second-place finish at the Siskiyou Out and Back 100 this past July. And now he's back for round two.

Ethan Herrera joins us to talk honestly about a race that didn't go how he wanted: a rolled ankle early, asthma issues he fell behind on, hallucinations worse than he'd ever had, and the feeling of just getting worse and worse as the miles went on. He calls it "a special kind of bad" — and then explains why he took it as a lesson from the mountains rather than a failure, and what he's doing differently this year.

We also get into the descent off Mammoth Mountain that blew up his legs in the first ten miles, why Obsidian Dome's grapefruit-sized rocks make for such a strange contrast with the course's buttery singletrack, his advice for first-timers (the race doesn't really start until the second half), and a genuinely great moment at mile 130 when a massive herd of sheep — and one very watchful sheepdog — stopped him in his tracks and reset his whole race.

Plus: Ethan's background at the Speed Project, his path from climbing the Eastern Sierra to running through it, his work with Roark, and a confident promise to boldly miss a three-pointer if we put a hoop in front of him.

In this episode:

• What an inaugural race teaches you that nobody can tell you in advance
• "A special kind of bad" — asthma, hallucinations, and losing control of a race
• Looking for the life jackets in the pain cave
• The sheep, the sheepdog, and a mile-130 gratitude reset
• Advice for anyone running Mammoth for the first time this year
• Homework not done (he's not the first), and late submissions accepted
• A sub-60 goal, and Kevin offering up his splits

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Devon Yanko: Twenty Years In, and Her First 200

Today's guest has been racing at the front of this sport for the better part of two decades. She's run Western States multiple times, kept winning races through a lupus diagnosis, moved up to altitude outside Salida, Colorado, and won the Tarawera Ultra in New Zealand outright this year. She has never run an official 200-mile race. That changes this October.

Devon Yanko joins us to explain how crewing Heather Jackson at Cocodona led directly to her pulling over on the side of the road an hour outside Flagstaff to email Tim Tollefson and sign up for Mammoth — right after deciding she'd never do anything like it. She talks about what she learned watching Heather's race up close, why adaptability beats a perfect plan, and how tearing a tendon at mile six of Scout Mountain 100 turned into the best possible rehearsal for a 200.

We also get into sleep — she's a self-described terrible sleeper who's never taken a dirt nap and has never hallucinated — plus a 2016 Western States chair, an hour lost, and the lesson she's been practicing for ten years since.

And then there's basketball. Devon owns one of the coveted MBA jerseys from Mingus, and it turns out there's a very good reason for that: she played Division I basketball at Fresno State, and won her state's three-point shooting contest as a high school senior, beating a future WNBA player. We're comfortable calling her the best basketball player in ultrarunning.

In this episode:

• The roadside email that got her into Mammoth
• Crewing Heather Jackson at Cocodona, and what it taught her about problem-solving
• Running Tarawera through knee-deep mud, trench foot, and a dead watch
• Sleep strategy from someone who genuinely can't sleep
• Playing the Mammoth 200 video game as an Oregon Trail veteran
• A D1 basketball résumé and a pre-committed yes to the MBA
• Finish-line firsts, including a hug for Tim that may or may not be a strangle

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California — 214 miles around a 760,000-year-old caldera, bookended by two summits of Mammoth Mountain. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Brian Reynolds' Four-Year Journey at Leadville to Becoming the First Double Amputee to Finish a 100-Mile Race

On this episode of Distance to Empty, Kevin sits down with Brian, who just days earlier became the first below-the-knee double amputee to finish a 100-mile trail race — completing the legendary Leadville Trail 100 in 28 hours and 55 minutes.

Brian takes us inside four years and four attempts at Leadville, from a first-year DNF where he had "absolutely zero idea" what he was doing, to prosthetic tread failures that cost him the race in years two and three, to finally crossing the finish line on Sixth Street surrounded by a 19-person crew. Along the way, he breaks down the engineering behind his running blades vs. hiking legs, why aid-station transitions can take eight-plus minutes of stripping down, drying off, and re-taping, and how he trains over 20 hours of weekly cardio without the mileage most ultrarunners rely on.

We also get into the mental side of the sport: hiding his legs under pants until his mid-twenties, the moment he stopped caring what people thought and started pushing his own limits, and why — despite training in the dark ages before adaptive-sports role models existed — he now gets to be the person others reach out to for answers.

Topics covered:

• The difference between running blades, walking legs, and hiking legs — and why weight and heel flexion matter on a course like Hope Pass
• Three straight years of prosthetic equipment failures and how he engineered his way past them
• Why he skipped every shorter distance and went straight to a 100-miler
• The 38%-higher energy cost of running as a double amputee, and how he fuels for it
• His 19-person Leadville crew and the community that kept bringing him back
• What's next: rim-to-rim-to-rim, Comrades, and a very unofficial 99% "no" to 200-milers

Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Lindsey Dwyer: From the Crew Car to the Start Line

Today's guest is a middle school PE teacher who finished 5th at Cocodona 250 this year in 72 hours, cutting seven hours off her own time from the year before. She's got a UTMB top-20 and a Rio del Lago course record on her résumé. And last October, she spent the inaugural Mammoth 200 crewing and pacing her husband Matt — a job she describes as running on about five hours of sleep across the entire race.

Lindsey Dwyer joins us to talk about why it took roughly no time at all to decide she wanted to run it herself, what she's cleaning up from Cocodona (including a fueling problem most ultrarunners would love to have — she thinks she was eating too much), and the altitude tent she just rented as a sea-level runner heading to 8,000+ feet.

We also get into the Mammoth 200 video game, where her household holds a record we still can't fully explain: Matt's 43-hour virtual finish is faster than anyone else who's played, and — as Kevin points out — faster than the game was designed to allow. Lindsey ran 82. There's a family strategy session pending.

Plus: a genuinely great story about pacing Matt through last year's storm on the second summit, lightning overhead, and discovering that abandoning your runner mid-mountain is an extremely effective pacing technique.

In this episode:

• Deciding to race Mammoth roughly instantly after crewing it
• Eating too much at Cocodona, and dialing in fueling with lab testing
• Renting an altitude tent as a sea-level runner (Peter has thoughts)
• Why a runnable course is exactly what she wants
• Matt's 43-hour virtual time, and a swag bounty for anyone who can beat it
• A pass on the weather question, and a lightning story that more than makes up for it
• Finish-line firsts: chocolate pudding, a hot bath, and a growing shopping list for Matt

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California — 214 miles around a 760,000-year-old caldera, bookended by two summits of Mammoth Mountain. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Callie Vinson: Back for Round Two, and a Film Crew Along the Way

Our very first recording for this series, and it's with someone who's been here before: last September, Callie Vinson spent her birthday finishing the inaugural Mammoth 200 in just over 101 hours — right through a snowstorm that got her rerouted off the second summit and held at an aid station for six hours during a lightning delay. This October, she's back for round two.

Callie talks about getting talked into a second lap by race director Tim, why Mammoth's relatively "approachable" terrain works for a self-described clumsy, height-fearing trail runner, and a genuine bit of news: she and Tim are working on a documentary film, much of which will be shot during this year's race in Mammoth Lakes. We also get into her strategy for round two — same pacing plan, same reliance on Gu Roctane and aid-station ramen, same "walk every step" approach that's carried her through Cocodona, Moab, and her own Phoenix FKT — and a stacked crew lineup including Scott, Jen, Carol, Abby, and Cortes.

And we dig into her actual Mammoth 200 video game card: 84 hours 25 minutes, Local Legend class, ten potatoes, zero hallucinations — a result she now admits was way too conservative, and a mistake she's already planning to fix on a second playthrough.

In this episode:

• The snowstorm, the six-hour lightning hold, and getting rerouted off the second summit
• Why Mammoth is the rare mountain 200 that works for someone afraid of heights
• A documentary film in the works, shooting live during this year's race
• Her virtual Mammoth 200 run — and why she's replaying it less conservatively
• A prediction for race week: more rain, cooler temps, hopefully no lightning
• A pre-committed yes to the Mammoth Basketball Association, if the hoop shows up

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California — 214 miles around a 760,000-year-old caldera, bookended by two summits of Mammoth Mountain. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Kyla Maher: The Red Puffy Returns

Today's guest showed up on our Flagstaff Bound series having never run anything longer than 100 miles, wrote "please help" on her scheduling form, and finished Cocodona 250 anyway — all while working as athlete manager at Janji. She's since made the jump to Satisfy, and according to the card she sent us, she's already finished the Mammoth 200 — virtually, at least.

Kyla Maher joins us for round two of 200-mile racing, and this episode has everything: peer pressure as a training plan (courtesy of race director Tim), a real conversation about what nothing can prepare you for the first time you go past 100 miles, and the full, unfiltered story behind the bright red rented puffy jacket that followed her through increasingly rough stages of Cocodona 250 — including the reveal of exactly which subscription clothing service is getting a very pointed callout in this episode.

We also get into her jump from Janji to Satisfy, an honest answer about whether finishing a 250-mile race ever actually satisfies a "dopamine deprived" personality, and her official Mammoth 200 video game card — 214.6 miles in 89 hours 28 minutes, Seasoned Mid-Packer, nine acorns collected — plus a request for an entirely new game category that better reflects her Cocodona finish.

In this episode:

• The jacket: rented again, or new colorway this time?
• What real pain threshold change actually feels like the first time you go past 100 miles
• Janji to Satisfy — what's changed, what hasn't
• Her Mammoth 200 video game card, and a proposed new class category
• A crew status update (spoiler: she doesn't have one yet)
• Her prediction for race week weather — and it directly contradicts a previous guest's

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California — 214 miles around a 760,000-year-old caldera, bookended by two summits of Mammoth Mountain. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠ Video Game!

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Meet the Mammoths — Sarah Ostaszewski: From Crewing the Storm to Racing It Herself

Today's guest has won Cocodona 250, won Moab 240, and won Ouray 100 twice. This year, after a decade in the Western States lottery, she finally toed the line and came home with a sub-24-hour silver buckle. She's one of the most accomplished names in the sport — and this October, she's racing a course she's never touched.

Sarah Ostaszewski wasn't a stranger to the Mammoth 200 before signing up herself — she crewed and paced her friend Michael Robertson through the inaugural race last year, including a stretch that got hit by a full-blown storm with two separate lightning holds on the mountain. She talks about what that day taught her about the course, why she signed up to actually race it herself this time, and how she thinks about competing in an era where course records keep getting rewritten within a year or two of anyone setting them.

We also get into her post–Western States headspace, what she tells her own coached athletes before their first 200-mile race, and — a series first — a guest who didn't do her homework. Sarah's virtual Mammoth 200 game time is still pending, and we'll update the show notes once she submits it late.

In this episode:

• Crewing a storm-hit inaugural Mammoth 200 in 2025, and what made her want to race it herself
• Competing in a sport where the record books keep moving under everyone's feet
• Finally getting off the Western States waitlist after ten years, and the "chapter closing" feeling that came with it
• Advice she gives her own athletes before their first 200 — and whether she follows it herself
• A homework assignment gone late, and a tentative yes to the Mammoth Basketball Association
• Her prediction for race week: expect another storm

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California — 214 miles around a 760,000-year-old caldera. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

Play The Mammoth 200 Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Lexi Corcione: From Spartan Obstacles to 214 Miles

Before she ever considered herself a trail runner, today's guest ran more than 30 Spartan Races. Lexi Corcione is a strength and performance coach based in Scottsdale, Arizona, and this October she's stepping up to her first-ever race over 200 miles at the Mammoth 200 — just months after finishing the notoriously tough Sedona Canyons 125.

In this episode, Lexi talks about the moment obstacle racing stopped being enough, what it's actually like living in a house with two professional endurance coaches (her husband Joe coaches ultrarunners for a living), and why she thinks strength training — not just mileage — is the most overlooked piece of long-distance success. She also walks us through her playthrough of the official Mammoth 200 video game, including an Easter egg involving sheep dogs, gels, and a blister named Gary.

We close things out with our usual final stretch: the loop question, her finish-line order (hint: a cheeseburger is involved), her non-placement goal for the race, and a prediction for race week weather that involves snow.

In this episode:

• From 30+ Spartan Races to her first-ever 200-mile race
• Married to her running coach — how that actually works day to day
• Why stabilizer strength matters more than the "sexy" lifts
• Her Mammoth 200 video game playthrough (and the hidden Easter eggs)
• A tease of a possible basketball activation coming to Mammoth this year
• Her prediction for race week: sun, snow, or something in between

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California — Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.