For The Long Run: Exploring the Why Behind Running

Tara Dower has accomplished some incredible things in ultrarunning, but her journey hasn't been without challenges. From battling anxiety on the Appalachian Trail to taking on Western States and Hardrock just 13 days apart, Tara has learned a lot about resilience, mental health, and knowing her limits.

In this episode of For The Long Run, Tara joins Jon to discuss building mental toughness, the physical and emotional toll of racing, and how injury forced her to rethink her relationship with running.

They also dive into the realities of professional ultrarunning, her podcast DNF Diaries, and why she's rediscovering the joy of running without pressure.

Stay connected:

Tara on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tara.dower/

Tara on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@taratreks

Tara's podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dnf-diaries/id1796896599

Support our Sponsors:

CEP compression socks and sleeves are built to support runners through the full race experience, from long travel days to race-day miles and post-race recovery. Shop CEP at https://ceprunning.com and make compression part of your next race plan.

TrainingPeaks helps runners turn their training data into actionable insights, track fitness and recovery, and seamlessly sync workouts to their watches. Get started for free here!

FlyKitt helps take the jet lag out of travel with a personalized plan built around your specific flight, so you can arrive ready to run, work, or explore. Use code FTLR at https://flykitt.com.

Amanda Vestri isn't playing it safe heading into the New York City Marathon. After leaving Boston feeling like she hadn't pushed her limits, the Brooks professional runner committed to doing things differently: going to Boulder for altitude training, increasing her mileage, embracing harder workouts, and taking risks she's never taken before.

Amanda joins us to share what it's been like to push through 115-mile training weeks, why working with coach David Roche has changed her approach to running, and how she's learned that fueling and recovery are just as important as the miles themselves. She also opens up about managing self-doubt, finding confidence in uncomfortable situations, and why she believes the lessons from Boston could help her achieve her ultimate goal of making the 2028 Olympic team.

With New York just around the corner, Amanda is ready to find out what she's capable of.

Stay connected:

Amanda on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/a_vestri/?hl=en

Support our Sponsors:

CEP compression socks and sleeves are built to support runners through the full race experience, from long travel days to race-day miles and post-race recovery. Shop CEP at https://ceprunning.com and make compression part of your next race plan.

TrainingPeaks helps runners turn their training data into actionable insights, track fitness and recovery, and seamlessly sync workouts to their watches. Get started for free here!

Avelo just launched the Supertrainer One, a running shoe with built-in biomechanics technology that delivers real-time insights and personalized coaching with every stride. Visit https://avelorunning.com/ to get your pair!

Vikash Sharma is a physical therapist, runner, and founder of Perfect Stride Physical Therapy in New York City and Running for Life Education. After 14 years of working with runners, he's seen firsthand how often injuries come down to being underprepared for the demands of training rather than simply doing too much.

Vikash joins Jon to talk about when runners should seek physical therapy, how to distinguish pain you can work through from pain that requires rest, and why heavy strength training and plyometrics deserve a place in every runner's routine. They also discuss how travel disrupts training, ways to maintain fitness when your schedule changes, and practical strategies for arriving at race day ready to perform.

With the New York City Marathon approaching, Vikash also shares his advice for navigating the course, preparing for its toughest sections, and making the most of one of running's biggest days.

Join us in New York with CEP on Friday afternoon! https://www.heylo.com/event/-P2p2YiMh-m_r2_pYrfm

Support our Sponsors:

CEP compression socks and sleeves are built to support runners through the full race experience, from long travel days to race-day miles and post-race recovery. Shop CEP at https://ceprunning.com and make compression part of your next race plan.

TrainingPeaks helps runners turn their training data into actionable insights, track fitness and recovery, and seamlessly sync workouts to their watches. Get started for free here!

How much data do we really need to become better runners?

Recorded live in Chamonix during UTMB week, Jon Levitt hosts a panel discussion presented by TrainingPeaks with Alison Lynch of Amazfit, Arnar Larusson of Tymewear, professional athlete and coach Corrine Malcolm, and Doug Stewart of the Elite Trail Team.

They explore how wearable technology is changing the way we train, what metrics actually matter, and why more data doesn't always mean better decisions. The conversation also digs into the gaps in women's health research, the role of AI in coaching, and how technology can help everyday runners balance training with the demands of life.

At the heart of the discussion is a question worth asking: How do we use technology to become better runners without losing the joy of running in the first place?

Support our Sponsors:

CEP compression socks and sleeves are built to support runners through the full race experience, from long travel days to race-day miles and post-race recovery. Shop CEP at https://ceprunning.com and make compression part of your next race plan.

FlyKitt helps take the jet lag out of travel with a personalized plan built around your specific flight, so you can arrive ready to run, work, or explore. Use code FTLR at https://flykitt.com.

Tifosi Optics: From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

Dakota Jones has been running ultras for more than half his life, but these days, running means a lot more to him than results.

Recorded in Chamonix ahead of CCC, Dakota joins the podcast to talk about the experiences that have kept him connected to trail running, why some of his most meaningful days in the sport have had nothing to do with winning, and how running has become a vehicle for community, adventure, and environmental action.

They talk about Dakota’s work with Footprints, riding his bike 650 miles to Western States, his partnership with NNormal and the brand’s approach to sustainability, and why individual action doesn’t have to be perfect to matter. Dakota also shares how he thinks about excellence today, the importance of making change at the community level, and his upcoming Great Salt Lake Project, where he’ll run 260 miles around the lake over five days to bring attention to its future.

For Dakota, running isn’t the end goal. It’s a way to connect with people, explore what’s possible, and hopefully leave things a little better than he found them.

Stay connected:

Dakota on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thatdakotajones/?hl=en

Support our Sponsors:

CEP compression socks and sleeves are built to support runners through the full race experience, from long travel days to race-day miles and post-race recovery. Shop CEP at https://ceprunning.com and make compression part of your next race plan.

FlyKitt helps take the jet lag out of travel with a personalized plan built around your specific flight, so you can arrive ready to run, work, or explore. Use code FTLR at https://flykitt.com.

Tifosi Optics: From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

What happens when running becomes less about the numbers and more about finding the edge of what’s possible?

Victor Zetouine is an ultrarunner, entrepreneur, and founder of Party Place who has taken on some wildly ambitious endurance challenges, including running The Speed Project solo from Los Angeles to Las Vegas and racing hundreds of miles across Chile’s Atacama Desert.

Victor joins Jon to talk about going from barely running half a mile to chasing huge endurance adventures, why a stress fracture ultimately led him to ditch his watch, and how losing a close friend changed the direction of his running. They dig into what Victor finds when he’s completely alone in the desert, why the hardest adventures can make the rest of life feel more meaningful, and the difference between goals that scare you and goals that paralyze you.

They also explore the overlap between ultrarunning and entrepreneurship, why perseverance often matters more than talent, breaking enormous goals into the next manageable step, and why Victor believes that every time you think you’ve found your limit, there’s still more to discover.

Stay connected:

Victor on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vic_zee/

Support our Sponsors:

CEP compression socks and sleeves are built to support runners through the full race experience, from long travel days to race-day miles and post-race recovery. Shop CEP at http://ceprunning.com and make compression part of your next race plan.

FlyKitt helps take the jet lag out of travel with a personalized plan built around your specific flight, so you can arrive ready to run, work, or explore. Use code FTLR at https://flykitt.com.

Join us for a pre-race meetup at Pattern Break Brewing the day before Boulderthon! Whether you used our code or just love running, come hang out with us from 2–5pm on Friday, September 25th. Reserve your spot here.

Kila makes custom 3D-printed insoles out of super shoe foams, built to your exact feet and shipped straight to your door. Head to https://kilarun.com and use code FTLR for $50 off your first order.

Emma Zeiger knows a lot about doing hard things and finding meaning in them.

After losing her dad when she was nine, Emma eventually found community through Experience Camps, a free camp for children who have lost a parent, sibling, or primary caregiver. That experience helped inspire Ghosted by Grief, her podcast and community built around making hard conversations easier to have.

Now, after two marathon attempts were derailed by health issues and surgeries, Emma is training for the New York City Marathon while raising money for Experience Camps through her “Grief Is a Long Run” campaign. The idea: grief, like running, isn’t linear. Mile six can feel impossible and mile 19 can feel easy. You just have to keep moving.

Emma and Jonathan talk about grief, finding community through endurance sports, the pressure we put on ourselves, and learning to accept what our bodies can do. Ultimately, it’s about doing hard things, finding joy along the way, and making those hard things a little less lonely for someone else.

Stay Connected:

Emma's Podcast: Ghosted

Emma on Instagram

Support our Sponsors:

Boulderthon: Whether you're hunting for a PR or just looking for an excuse to visit Colorado in early fall, Boulderthon has a race for you. Register at https://Boulderthon.org and use code FTLR2026 for $20 off the Half or the Full.

CEP compression socks and sleeves are built to support runners through the full race experience, from long travel days to race-day miles and post-race recovery. Shop CEP at http://ceprunning.com and make compression part of your next race plan.

FlyKitt helps take the jet lag out of travel with a personalized plan built around your specific flight, so you can arrive ready to run, work, or explore. Use code FTLR at https://flykitt.com.

What happens when 100 miles is no longer far enough?

Ekta Basu joins Jon after finishing the Tahoe 200, a journey that took her more than four days and pushed her further than she had ever gone before. She shares how she went from a self-described “mile junkie” with little structure to training intentionally for 200 miles, and why the process taught her as much as the race itself.

Ekta takes us inside the highs and very low lows of Tahoe, from early blisters and chasing cutoffs to spending the final 20 miles hunched over with a failing back. She talks about the crew and community that kept her moving, seeing her son cry at the finish line, and the realization waiting for her after 200 miles: everything she needed to keep going was already within her.

They also talk about doing hard things, the freedom of running, why every step is a choice, and the curiosity that keeps Ekta wondering just how far she can go.

Stay connected:

Follow Ekta on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ekta_runs/

Support our Sponsors:

Boulderthon

Whether you're chasing a PR or looking for an unforgettable race weekend, Boulderthon offers a 5K, 10K, half marathon, full marathon, and kids races in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. Register at https://Boulderthon.com and use code FTLR2026 to save $20 on your half or full marathon registration.

Tifosi Optics

From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

FlyKitt

FlyKitt helps take the jet lag out of travel with a personalized plan built around your specific flight, so you can arrive ready to run, work, or explore. Use code FTLR at https://flykitt.com.

Professional skier, mountaineer, endurance athlete, activist, and former U.S. Senate candidate Caroline Gleich joins Jon for a wide-ranging conversation about sport, advocacy, and having the courage to stand for something.

Caroline shares how running became part of her life after a major ankle injury, how she built an unconventional career as a professional athlete, and why endurance sport has given her the confidence and self-belief to take on challenges far beyond the mountains. She reflects on running for U.S. Senate in Utah, the grit she gained from the campaign, and what she learned about speaking up, finding common ground, and staying true to her values even when there are consequences.

Jon and Caroline also talk about the responsibility athletes have to use their platforms, navigating brand partnerships while being outspoken, the role of sport in building resilience, supporting a partner with equally big goals, and her concerns about AI, data centers, and the future of creators.

At the heart of the conversation is a simple idea: doing hard things in sport can teach us how to show up for the hard things that matter outside of it, too.

Support our Sponsors:

Boulderthon

Whether you're chasing a PR or looking for an unforgettable race weekend, Boulderthon offers a 5K, 10K, half marathon, full marathon, and kids races in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. Register at https://Boulderthon.com and use code FTLR2026 to save $20 on your half or full marathon registration.

Kila

Kila makes custom 3D-printed insoles out of super shoe foams, built to your exact feet and shipped straight to your door. Head to https://kilarun.com and use code FTLR for $50 off your first order.

Tifosi Optics

From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

Ben Dhiman won UTMB. One of the most competitive ultra trail races in the world, and he won it. This conversation was recorded not long after, when the dust had barely settled and he was still figuring out what it all meant.

Ben talks about the race itself, what the final miles felt like, the weight of expectation that came with being a contender, what winning actually gave him versus what he thought it would, and who he is when he's not running.

Joe Corcione returns to talk through his Western States race, why he considers it his best race ever despite missing his time goal, and how he defines success through process and effort rather than placement or pace. He also breaks down the mindset tools he used late in the race, the role of sober living and personal growth in his why, and the bigger mission behind Everyday Ultra.

This is an interview centered on performance, identity, and purpose, with strong crossover into coaching, business, and community-building. Joe shares the practical and mental framework he uses for racing and for running a business that he believes should change lives, not just improve times.

Support our Sponsors:

Boulderthon

Whether you're chasing a PR or looking for an unforgettable race weekend, Boulderthon offers a 5K, 10K, half marathon, full marathon, and kids races in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. Register at https://Boulderthon.com and use code FTLR2026 to save $20 on your half or full marathon registration.

Go Brewing

This episode is brought to you by Go Brewing, a small family-run brewery outside Chicago making non-alcoholic IPAs, lagers, and hazies that actually taste like beer, with most cans under 60 calories and no added sugar, so try favorites like the Jab Jab Grapefruit IPA, New School Sour Berry, or Baller Melon at https://gobrewing.com and use code FTLR2026 for 20% off your first order.

Daniel Berk was 32 years old, about 50 pounds overweight, and hadn't sprinted since college when he posted a tweet saying he was going to become a runner. He didn't know what he was doing. His first 5K took 50 minutes. He described himself as a blubbery, slow, out-of-breath whale. And then he just kept going.

Two and a half years later he's lost 50 pounds, run four half marathons, and is sixteen weeks out from his first full marathon at Chicago. He's also an entrepreneur, a content creator, a father of two with a third on the way, and someone who thinks about running and business in almost exactly the same terms.

This conversation is about what happens when you show up publicly with a goal you're not sure you can achieve — and what that does for you in every other part of life.

Topics covered:

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What pushed Daniel over the edge to start running — a family heart scare and a TikTok

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His first 50-minute 5K and why he kept going anyway

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When the runner's high finally hit and why he describes it like a drug

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Breaking the 30-minute 5K and what that meant to him

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How the mental game of running mirrors the mental game of entrepreneurship

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Why he used to downplay his progress and how Jon pushed back on that

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The Gap and the Gain — looking back at how far you've come versus the gap to where you want to be

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Being publicly curious and what that's done for his career and his running

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Chicago marathon prep — training block, fueling experiments, shoe rotation

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What he's thinking about at the start line with his pregnant wife and two kids waiting at mile markers

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Chunking as a framework for getting through long runs and hard things

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What's going through his head the moment he crosses the finish line

Support our sponsors:

Training Peaks

The coaches behind UTMB winners and the athletes you've heard on this show are all using the same platform — and that's not a coincidence. Get 20% off Training Peaks premium with code FTLR here!

Boulderthon

Whether you're hunting for a PR or just looking for an excuse to visit Colorado in early fall, Boulderthon has a race for you. Register at https://Boulderthon.org and use code FTLR2026 for $20 off the Half or the Full.

Kila makes custom 3D-printed insoles out of super shoe foams, built to your exact feet and shipped straight to your door. Head to https://kilarun.com and use code FTLR for $50 off your first order.

Quick note before you press play. This conversation with Des Linden first aired on Long Run Labs, my podcast about the business of endurance and the outdoor industry. Des is one of the most thoughtful people in running when it comes to how athletes can build something lasting beyond their competitive years, so I figured her story was worth putting in front of the For the Long Run audience too.

Des Linden won the 2018 Boston Marathon in one of the most iconic performances in the history of the race. But this conversation is not about that day. It is about what she has built since and how she thinks about the next chapter.

Des and Jon chat about:

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how Des started seeing the business side of running as early as 2011

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what twenty years of loyalty with Brooks actually looks like in practice

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why winning Boston in 2018 gave her permission to flip the switch

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her transition to trail and why she is entering that space carefully

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why gravel running might be the most underrated opportunity in the sport right now

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the financial literacy gap in professional running and why it matters

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what she would tell a current athlete who wants to build something beyond competition

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the one brand she has not pitched yet but absolutely should

Support our sponsors:

Training Peaks

The coaches behind UTMB winners and the athletes you've heard on this show are all using the same platform — and that's not a coincidence. Get 20% off Training Peaks premium with code FTLR here!

Boulderthon

Whether you're hunting for a PR or just looking for an excuse to visit Colorado in early fall, Boulderthon has a race for you. Register at https://Boulderthon.org and use code FTLR2026 for $20 off the Half or the Full.

Tifosi Optics

From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

Kila makes custom 3D-printed insoles out of super shoe foams, built to your exact feet and shipped straight to your door. Head to https://kilarun.com and use code FTLR for $50 off your first order.

Kelsey Walla is a CPA by day and a triathlete, runner, and community builder by everything else. She grew up hating running, never touched a weight until college, and didn't get on a bike until she found one at a garage sale for twenty bucks. Then she had a serious skiing accident that took away her ability to walk, and everything changed.

This is a conversation about what happens when your body forces you to stop — and what you do when it lets you go again.

Topics covered:

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The skiing accident that ripped everything in her knee and why she's grateful for it

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Going from hating running to signing up for a half marathon at elevation

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How hitting one goal immediately creates the next one

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Building Wild Coyote Club in Longmont and why she walks at the back every Monday night

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Creating space for the middle and back of the pack runner

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What community actually means and why it changes everything

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The relationship that made her believe she could do the impossible

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Imposter syndrome — why even Olympic medalists feel it and why it might be a good thing

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Sharing the real and raw parts of life on social media and what that's led to

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Working with Popfly and professionalizing her content while keeping a full time job

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Why YOLO is both her mantra and possibly her next tattoo

Stay connected:

Kelsey on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wallakelseyy/?hl=en

Support our sponsors:

Training Peaks

The coaches behind UTMB winners and the athletes you've heard on this show are all using the same platform — and that's not a coincidence. Get 20% off Training Peaks premium with code FTLR here!

Boulderthon

Whether you're hunting for a PR or just looking for an excuse to visit Colorado in early fall, Boulderthon has a race for you. Register at https://Boulderthon.org and use code FTLR2026 for $20 off the Half or the Full.

Tifosi Optics

From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

Kila makes custom 3D-printed insoles out of super shoe foams, built to your exact feet and shipped straight to your door. Head to https://kilarun.com and use code FTLR for $50 off your first order.

Molly Seidel was running well at Western States. In the top ten for the first fifty-ish miles, racing where she knew she belonged. Then by mile sixty-two she was ready to quit, in pain, angry at herself, with thirty-eight miles left and nothing to race for competitively.

She ran them anyway.

This is a conversation about what those last twelve hours taught her that the first fifty never could have — about trail running, about herself, and about why finishing a race you're no longer competing in can be more meaningful than winning one.

Topics covered:

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What went wrong at Western States and why she kept going

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The ego death of being a rookie after winning an Olympic medal

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Whether trail can save itself from becoming what road racing already is

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The people in her corner — Kelly Newland, Cliff, Steph Howe

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What she'd say to the Molly of 2021 and 2024

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OCC and Javelina coming up this fall

Stay connected:

Molly on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bygolly.molly/

Support our sponsors:

Training Peaks

The coaches behind UTMB winners and the athletes you've heard on this show are all using the same platform — and that's not a coincidence. Get 20% off Training Peaks premium with code FTLR here!

Boulderthon

Whether you're hunting for a PR or just looking for an excuse to visit Colorado in early fall, Boulderthon has a race for you. Register at https://Boulderthon.org and use code FTLR2026 for $20 off the Half or the Full.

Precision Fuel & Hydration

Precision Fuel & Hydration's new Watermelon Chew was developed with trail ultrarunner Rachel Entrekin to help athletes combat flavor fatigue while fueling long efforts. Shop at Precision Fuel & Hydration and use code LongRun26 for 15% off your order at precisionhydration.com

Go Brewing

This episode is brought to you by Go Brewing, a small family-run brewery outside Chicago making non-alcoholic IPAs, lagers, and hazies that actually taste like beer, with most cans under 60 calories and no added sugar, so try favorites like the Jab Jab Grapefruit IPA, New School Sour Berry, or Baller Melon at https://gobrewing.com and use code FTLR2026 for 20% off your first order.

Hildee Weiss is a wife, mother of five, grandmother, freelance writer, and runner. She started running at age 46 with a hand injury, a trainer named Jeff who believed in her before she believed in herself, and a head full of reasons why she couldn't do it. Twelve years later she has run 5Ks, 10Ks, half marathons, Spartan races, and trail runs. She has broken bones, had surgery, lost her motivation, and found it again. And she just wrote a book about all of it.

This conversation is about what happens when you finally decide to do something for yourself after years of doing everything for everyone else. It's about identity, self-belief, the difference between I have to run and I get to run, and why it's never too late to start.

Topics covered:

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Who Hildee was at 46 and what finally pushed her to make a change

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Why she looked out the window at runners and thought not me

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Meeting trainer Jeff and what it means to have someone believe in you before you believe in yourself

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Her first 5K, her broken foot, and how she came back from both

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What running unlocked in the rest of her life — raising five kids, handling hard things, finding inner strength

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The shift from I have to run to I get to run

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How a surprise five-mile group run helped her find the joy again after surgery

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Why she stopped obsessing over pace and data and had her fastest run in years

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Writing the book Embracing My Inner Athlete and what the process looked like

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What success actually means — and why it has nothing to do with pace or medals

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Why she wants to be that woman on the podium in her eighties

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The night run in Jerusalem she's training for with her kids

Stay connected:

Hildee's book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Embracing-My-Inner-Athlete/Hildee-Weiss/9798894410326

Hildee on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/momoffive68/

Support our Sponsors:

Boulderthon

Whether you're chasing a PR or looking for an unforgettable race weekend, Boulderthon offers a 5K, 10K, half marathon, full marathon, and kids races in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. Register at https://Boulderthon.com and use code FTLR2026 to save $20 on your half or full marathon registration.

Precision Fuel & Hydration

Precision Fuel & Hydration's new Watermelon Chew was developed with trail ultrarunner Rachel Entrekin to help athletes combat flavor fatigue while fueling long efforts. Shop at Precision Fuel & Hydration and use code LongRun26 for 15% off your order at https://precisionhydration.com

Tifosi Optics

From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

Go Brewing

This episode is brought to you by Go Brewing, a small family-run brewery outside Chicago making non-alcoholic IPAs, lagers, and hazies that actually taste like beer, with most cans under 60 calories and no added sugar, so try favorites like the Jab Jab Grapefruit IPA, New School Sour Berry, or Baller Melon at https://gobrewing.com and use code FTLR2026 for 20% off your first order.

Shad Mika has been running ultras for over twenty years. He went from two hundred and forty pounds and a divorce to a duathlon, to Leadville, to Hardrock — and he's still going. He DNF'd his first two hundred mile attempts before he finally figured out it was supposed to hurt that bad. He's paced friends through Cocodona, volunteered at Hardrock for twelve years before he ever got in, and left his dog's ashes on top of Handies Peak. He blogs about it all at a site he's kept going since 2006 and has no plans to stop.

This conversation was recorded the week before Hardrock with wildfires burning near Ouray and real uncertainty around whether the race would happen. He showed up anyway.

Topics covered:

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How running found Shad after a divorce and two hundred and forty pounds

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His first trail run on the Mesa Trail in REI shoes and why he never looked back

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Sleeping under the bleachers at Leadville watching people finish all night and deciding he had to do it

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DNFing his first two Leadville attempts and what it taught him about suffering

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Why he's still scared at every single start line after twenty plus years

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The memories he makes with friends out there and why pacers matter to him

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Twelve hours running through the jungles of Hawaii in silence after a volunteer dumped water on his hearing aid

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The yin and yang of trail running's growth — old school culture versus the UTMB era

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Hardrock and why fewer people have finished it than have climbed Everest

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East Coast versus West Coast trail running and why they're basically different languages

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How to pick races that actually inspire you

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What doing hard things has taught him about everything passing

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His first two hundred mile attempt at Tahoe next year and why his fiancée is on board with it

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Guidance for road runners who are trail curious

Support our Sponsors:

Boulderthon

Whether you're chasing a PR or looking for an unforgettable race weekend, Boulderthon offers a 5K, 10K, half marathon, full marathon, and kids races in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. Register at https://Boulderthon.com and use code FTLR2026 to save $20 on your half or full marathon registration.

Precision Fuel & Hydration

Precision Fuel & Hydration's new Watermelon Chew was developed with trail ultrarunner Rachel Entrekin to help athletes combat flavor fatigue while fueling long efforts. Shop at Precision Fuel & Hydration and use code LongRun26 for 15% off your order at https://precisionhydration.com

Tifosi Optics

From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

Go Brewing

This episode is brought to you by Go Brewing, a small family-run brewery outside Chicago making non-alcoholic IPAs, lagers, and hazies that actually taste like beer, with most cans under 60 calories and no added sugar, so try favorites like the Jab Jab Grapefruit IPA, New School Sour Berry, or Baller Melon at https://gobrewing.com and use code FTLR2026 for 20% off your first order.

This one is a little different. Jon hosted a live panel in Boulder with three people who between them have worked with Olympic athletes, NBA teams, professional runners, and tens of thousands of recreational athletes. The topic was fueling, strength training, and the fundamentals that most runners are still getting wrong.

Charlie Sweeney is a professional marathoner who has lived the training load most people only read about — 140 miles a week, two sessions a day five days a week, and 110 grams of carbohydrate per hour at Boston this year. Dr. Marc Bubbs is the founder of ProBio, a performance nutritionist, and author who has spent his career in elite sport locker rooms translating research into what athletes actually do every day — from Canada Basketball to NBA and NHL teams to Olympic track clubs. Jason Fitzgerald has been coaching runners since 2010 and works primarily with adult recreational athletes.

The conversation is practical, honest, and occasionally funny. There's pizza involved.

Topics covered:

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What runners think they're doing right that might actually be hurting them

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Why fueling is deeply individual and how to stop copying what your favorite runner eats

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How carbohydrate recommendations have changed and why the pendulum has swung so far

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Fast carbs versus slow carbs and when to use each

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What 700 grams of carbohydrate a day actually looks like in practice

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How Charlie went from 20-mile runs on water to 110 grams per hour at Boston

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The 75 to 90 minute threshold for when to start fueling during a run

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Why the marathon specific long run is the one workout you should fuel at 100 percent

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What ProBio is, why it exists, and the compliance problem it was built to solve

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Vitamin D, B12, magnesium, and why elite bloodwork is often surprisingly average

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Why you can't just eat plants if you're running 140 miles a week

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Charlie's strength training breakdown — 90 minutes once a week, earn the massage first

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How to periodize strength training alongside your running

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When to taper your lifting before race day and what race week actually looks like in the gym

No sponsors on this one. If For The Long Run is a show you look forward to, you can support it directly at https://forthelong.run/subscribe — $8 a month or $80 for the year. The goal is fewer ads over time, and eventually none at all. That happens with your help.

Quick note before you press play. This conversation with Andy Blow first aired on Long Run Labs, Jon's podcast about the business of endurance and the outdoor industry. Andy is the co-founder of Precision Fuel and Hydration and one of the most thoughtful people in the sport when it comes to how athletes should actually be fueling. Precision sponsors For the Long Run, but this episode wasn't recorded out of obligation — it was recorded because Andy's story is genuinely worth hearing and there's a lot of tactically useful information in here for anyone who runs long.

If you like going behind the scenes on how the endurance world actually gets built, Long Run Labs is worth finding. Guests include sports marketers from Salomon, Garmin, ASICS, and Amazfit, founders from brands like Ketone IQ and Lagoon, and athletes turned media like Des Linden, Kara Goucher, and Dylan Bowman.

Andy Blow started Precision as a sweat test, not a product. He was a triathlete who kept ending up in the medical tent with hyponatremia in hot races, figured out he was a heavy sodium sweater, changed his approach, and built a company around the idea that electrolyte loss is individual and most athletes have no idea what their actual numbers are. Fifteen years later, Precision is crewing eleven athletes at Western States and working with Rachel Entrekin on the data that backed her Cocodona course record.

This conversation covers the science and the business in equal measure.

Topics covered:

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Why Andy ended up in the medical tent at races and what that led to

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How sweat testing became a product line and then a company

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Why Precision separates fuel from hydration and what the three levers actually are

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The low carb debate and what the pro peloton actually proves

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What amateur athletes are still getting wrong about race nutrition

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The free fuel and hydration planner and how to actually use it

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How Precision builds athlete relationships and why authenticity isn't just marketing language

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What F1 taught Andy about sports science and brand building

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What he believes now that he would have laughed at in 2011

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Stepping out of the CEO role after 15 years and what comes next

Boulderthon

Whether you're chasing a PR or looking for an unforgettable race weekend, Boulderthon offers a 5K, 10K, half marathon, full marathon, and kids races in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. Register at https://Boulderthon.com and use code FTLR2026 to save $20 on your half or full marathon registration.

Precision Fuel & Hydration

Precision Fuel & Hydration's new Watermelon Chew was developed with trail ultrarunner Rachel Entrekin to help athletes combat flavor fatigue while fueling long efforts. Shop at Precision Fuel & Hydration and use code LongRun26 for 15% off your order at precisionhydration.com

Tifosi Optics

From bright sunshine to overcast mornings, Tifosi offers performance eyewear designed for every running condition, with prescription options available as well. Shop at https://TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 to save 20% on your order.

Lindsey Dwyer started running before she could remember choosing it. Her mom ran while pregnant with her, and Lindsey was in a stroller on the course not long after. By seventh grade she'd quietly trained for and finished a half marathon without telling anyone until she needed a ride to the start line. By college, marathons felt routine. So she went longer.

Now she's one of the top finishers at Cocodona 250, a point-to-point 253-mile race through Arizona that's become one of the most-watched ultras in the world outside of Western States and UTMB. This year she finished fifth overall, running the final 200 miles with a knee injury that started at mile 50 and never went away.

Jonathan and Lindsey get into what it actually takes to compete across 80-plus hours of racing, how she thinks about crew and pacing at that scale, and why she believes the mental puzzle of ultras is the whole point. They also talk about the role of gratitude when things get hard, what her first 50-mile race recap on Facebook revealed about how little her navigation skills have improved, and how the "gap and the gain" framework applies to an athlete who's been quietly building toward this her whole life.

Lindsey is also heading to Tahoe Rim Trail and Mammoth 200 later this season and is partnered with Precision Fuel & Hydration.

Topics covered:

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Growing up running alongside her mom and sneaking into a half marathon at 13

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Why she chose longer over faster when marathons stopped feeling like a mystery

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What she loves about long runs and why she never looks at her watch

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Racing Cocodona 250 twice, finishing 2nd in 2024 and 5th in 2025 seven hours faster

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Managing a knee injury from mile 50 through the final 200 miles

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How to crew and pace well, and why communication before the race matters more than anything said during it

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Using gratitude as a practical tool in a low point

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The Gap and the Gain, and why reflecting back matters as much as looking forward

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Fueling strategy and how she ended up working with Precision Fuel & Hydration

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A very important Facebook post from her first 50-miler, featuring 48 Oreos and 6 bonus miles

Go Brewing

This episode is brought to you by Go Brewing, a small family-run brewery outside Chicago making non-alcoholic IPAs, lagers, and hazies that actually taste like beer, with most cans under 60 calories and no added sugar, so try favorites like the Jab Jab Grapefruit IPA, New School Sour Berry, or Baller Melon at https://gobrewing.com and use code FTLR2026 for 20% off your first order.

Boulderthon

Whether you're chasing a PR or looking for an unforgettable race weekend, Boulderthon offers a 5K, 10K, half marathon, full marathon, and kids races in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. Register at Boulderthon.com and use code FTLR2026 to save $20 on your half or full marathon registration.

Precision Fuel & Hydration

Precision Fuel & Hydration's new Watermelon Chew was developed with trail ultrarunner Rachel Entrekin to help athletes combat flavor fatigue while fueling long efforts. Shop at Precision Fuel & Hydration and use code LongRun26 for 15% off your order.

Vacation Races

The Rocky Mountain Half and 5K in Estes Park, Colorado this August. Run both and earn the Elk Double. Use code FTLR when you register at vacationraces.com.