Podcast
Out and Back
Rory Linkletter and Jacob Thomson are professional marathoners chasing fast times and big goals on the roads. Training out of Flagstaff, Arizona, they’ve got plenty of stories from the grind of big mileage, the chaos of race travel, the highs and lows of racing on the world stage and the random stuff that happens between workouts. With a passion for storytelling, running culture, and building community, Rory and Jacob bring listeners behind the scenes of the marathon lifestyle. Training talk with a few detours.
- Running chart
- #15
- Episodes
- 61
- Releases
- Weekly
- Typical length
- 1 hr 8 min
- On air since
- 2025
- Latest episode
- 5 days ago
Episodes
61 episodes, newest first
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1 hr 17 min
#61 - NYC Marathon Preview & Picks with Scott Fauble
Show notes
It's New York City Marathon weekend! Rory and Jacob are joined by two-time NYC Marathon top-10 finisher Scott Fauble to break down the course, preview the elite fields, and make their picks for race day.
Before diving into New York, Jacob recaps his 62:00 half marathon PR in Valencia and the financial side of professional running.
Scott shares his best advice for tackling NYC's notoriously challenging course, why patience matters more than pace, and how the super shoe era has completely changed marathon racing. They also debate Andreas Almgren's highly anticipated marathon debut, break down the top contenders, and share their predictions for Sunday's race.
Plus, Scott catches everyone up on life after professional running, his new role at Avelo Running, and his latest goal of breaking five minutes in the mile.
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1 hr 6 min
#60 - Andreas Almgren: World Half Marathon Champion
Episode 60
Show notes
European record holder and world champion Andreas Almgren joins the Out and Back Podcast ahead of his highly anticipated marathon debut at the New York City Marathon.
Known for his meticulous, self-coached approach to training, Andreas breaks down how he's adapted his famous double threshold system for the marathon, including 40K long runs, massive training weeks, and the data-driven decisions behind his preparation. He shares why he chose New York over a faster course, what success looks like in his debut, and how the marathon fits into his pursuit of Olympic gold in 2028.
They also dive into his approach to altitude and heat training, injury prevention, fueling with 120 grams of carbohydrates per hour, and why his biggest training philosophy is simply "don't be greedy."Before the interview, Rory and Jacob discuss the newly announced 2028 Olympic marathon qualification rules and the latest doping developments in professional running.
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1 hr 8 min
#59 - Between Reps - Shout Out Chicago!
Show notes
Fresh off Chicago Marathon weekend, Jacob and Rory are back in Flagstaff to break down the biggest performances, surprises, and takeaways from the race.
In a special “Shout Out Chicago” episode, they discuss Vinny Mauri's aggressive race strategy, Clayton Young's incredible performance, Galen Rupp's American masters record, and the growing depth of American marathoning. They also share behind-the-scenes stories from pacing Sharon Lokedi and Dakotah Popehn, discuss the impact of the weather, and make a surprise phone call to Clayton Young.
Plus, highlights from their first live show and how Chicago has fueled their motivation heading into Valencia and CIM.
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Blizzard: Explore the Canvas Collection, where athlete-tested ski performance meets original artwork. You can check out the Blizzard Canvas collection at: https://bit.ly/blizzard-outandback
Cure Hydration: Stay hydrated with great-tasting electrolytes made with coconut water, pink Himalayan salt, and real fruit. Get 20% off at https://curehydration.com/outandback with code OUTANDBACK.
OS1st: Keep your feet supported and comfortable with performance socks and recovery gear. Shop at https://os1st.com/ and use code OUTANDBACK or JACOB10 for a discount.
Squirrel's Nut Butter: Prevent chafing and stay comfortable on every run with Flagstaff-made anti-chafe products. Shop at https://squirrelsnutbutter.com/ and use code OUTANDBACK or JACOB10 for a discount.
Floss Point: Get your muscles moving and relieve tightness before your next run with Floss Point bands. Use code OUTANDBACK or JACOB10 for a discount.
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1 hr 8 min
#58 - Live from Chicago with Eric Floberg: Berlin Reflections, Race Day Strategy & Marathon Predictions
Show notes
The Out & Back Podcast hits the road for its first-ever live show! Recorded at Fleet Feet the day before the Chicago Marathon, Rory Linkletter and Jacob are joined by Chicago's own Eric Floberg for a conversation about racing, training, and everything that comes with marathon weekend.
Eric opens up about his recent Berlin Marathon, where a difficult lead-up and unexpected challenges kept him from the race he had hoped for. The three discuss what happens when a marathon doesn't go to plan, the mental side of racing, and the lessons that come from chasing big goals.
They also look ahead to Chicago with course insights, race day advice, bold predictions, and questions from the live audience. It's a special episode celebrating the running community that has grown around Out & Back over its first year.
Support our Sponsors:
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem
Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off.
OS1st: Your shoes are only half the battle on race day! OS1st makes performance socks with targeted compression, including their lightweight Thin Air socks designed to keep your feet cool and comfortable. Find them at https://os1st.com/ or your local Fleet Feet. GIVEAWAY: We're giving away 20 pairs of OS1st Thin Air socks! Head to our Instagram to enter for your chance to win.
Transparent Labs: Fuel your training with protein, creatine, electrolytes, and more from Transparent Labs. Use code FLAGSTAFF for a discount on your first order.
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1 hr 14 min
#57 - Chicago Predictions
Show notes
Fall marathon season is here. Rory and Jacob catch up on their own training before recapping Berlin and looking ahead to Chicago, including their picks for the top Americans, the women’s race up front, and the athletes they’re watching.
Then, with Chicago around the corner, they break down their approach to the final weeks of marathon training: when to schedule the last big workout, how much to taper, what to do when training doesn’t go to plan, and why the biggest goal now is simply not screwing up all the work you’ve already done.
Plus, updates on Valencia and CIM, pacing duties in Chicago, and the Out & Back live show.
Support our Sponsors:
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem
Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off.
Transparent Labs: Fuel your training with protein, creatine, electrolytes, and more from Transparent Labs. Use code FLAGSTAFF for a discount on your first order.
Merch Store:
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Coaching:
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55 min
#56 - Jadyn Keeler Breaks the Canadian Record + What’s Next in the Marathon
Show notes
Fresh off a Canadian half marathon record, Jadyn Keeler joins Rory and Jacob in Flagstaff to break down her 68:03 performance at the World Road Running Championships in Copenhagen.
Jadyn shares how the race unfolded, what changed during her first training block in Flagstaff, and how years of patient development at the University of North Dakota helped set up her breakout performance. She also talks about training under Terrence Mahon, her plans to make her marathon debut this spring, and her bigger goal of making Canada’s 2028 Olympic marathon team.
Plus, Rory and Jacob recap the rest of Copenhagen, including the standout performances, the American results, and Rory’s own experience racing Worlds.
Support our Sponsors:
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem
Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off.
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1 hr
#55 - Vinny Mauri’s 45-Mile Workout Days + World Road Running Champs Preview
Show notes
Rory is in Copenhagen for the World Road Running Championships, Jacob is getting ready to open his season at the Cow Harbor 10K, and Vinny Mauri joins the show three weeks out from the Chicago Marathon.
Vinny takes us inside the unconventional training that has taken over Strava, including 45-mile workout days, 140-mile weeks, massive treadmill sessions at Planet Fitness, and 11 long runs over 25 miles. He explains why he’s leaned so heavily into volume, how he’s making the marathon feel “short,” where his confidence comes from heading into Chicago, and how he plans to taper after his biggest training block yet.
Before and after Vinny, Rory and Jacob preview the World Road Running Championships, catch up on their own training and racing, and break down World Ultimate.
Plus, the guys announce an Out & Back live event during Chicago Marathon weekend. Grab your tickets here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/out-back-podcast-with-rory-linkletter-and-jacob-thomson-tickets-2000969887799
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1 hr
#54 - Ahmed Muhumed Takes on the Marathon
Show notes
Ahmed Muhumed joins Jacob and Rory ahead of the World Road Running Championships in Copenhagen and his highly anticipated marathon debut at the New York City Marathon.
Ahmed talks about what has changed as he makes the jump to 26.2, including running the highest mileage of his career, taking fueling seriously for the first time, and learning from some of the best marathoners around him. He also turns the tables on Jacob and Rory to ask what they’ve learned from their own marathon experience, from surviving the inevitable rough patches to fueling, bottle chaos and building legs that can handle the distance.
They also get into why Ahmed specifically chose New York for his debut, studying every NYC Marathon since 2014, training with a stacked NAZ Elite crew, and what he needs to learn over the next year and a half to put himself in position to contend for the 2028 Olympic team.
Support our Sponsors:
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem
Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
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1 hr 11 min
#53 - Jess McClain Is Thinking Bigger: Boston, World Champs & NYC
Show notes
Jess McClain is back on Out & Back, and a lot has changed since her first visit.
After finishing as the top American and setting the American course record at the Boston Marathon, Jess says the conversation has shifted. Being the top American is still meaningful, but now she wants to see herself as a factor internationally and start thinking about podiums.
Jess joins Jacob and Rory from Flagstaff as she prepares to represent Team USA at the World Half Marathon Championships in Copenhagen before turning her attention to the New York City Marathon. They talk about her close second-place finish at Falmouth, how her mindset around marathon training has changed, the gear-shifting workouts that used to intimidate her, and why she actually turned around for a bottle during Boston.
They also get into clean sport and drug testing, balancing professional running with a life and career outside of the sport, and Jess's new role as a small part owner of The Marathon Project. Plus, Jess shares what she wants out of Copenhagen, including why an American record isn't out of the question, even if racing the people around her comes first.Support our Sponsors:
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem
Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off.
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1 hr 8 min
#52 - Mailbag Episode: Yomif's World Record, World Ultimate Wild Cards, and Listener Q&A
Show notes
Episode 52 kicks off with the announcement of the Out and Back live show at Chicago Marathon weekend, Saturday noon at Fleet Feet Chicago, 100-125 tickets at $15 a pop with a swag bag worth way more than that. Then it's current events: Seb Coe gives Jakob and Kerr wild cards for the World Ultimate Championships so we get the matchup everyone wants, Ethan Strand wins a Diamond League in his first race since Jonah Koech's doping ban was announced, Parker Wolf and Graham Blanks run down Cameron Myers at Zurich, and Yomif Kejelcha runs 56:51 in Buenos Aires for a world record that has some people asking questions about the splits. They also get into the unusual nitrous drink, Sawe scratching from Berlin, and Valencia potentially becoming the fall race of the year. Then it's the mailbag: mistakes athletes make that are easily fixed, training in hot climates, top three exercises for durability, hills, double threshold, why they don't do it twice a week, and where the marathon and half marathon records land by 2030.
Support our Sponsors:
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem
Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
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1 hr 12 min
#51 - Between Reps: NYC Fields, Edmonton Half, European Champs, Race Schedule Updates
Episode 51
Show notes
Jacob is in Kelowna visiting John Gay, and Rory is back in Flagstaff holding it down after defending his Canadian Half Marathon championship in Edmonton, on a course that turned out to be too long. They break down the race, Rory's Tour de France style breakaway attack at 8K and the backwards finish line crossing. Then it's on to European Championships: Jakob's return after ten months away, Almgren lapping the field in the 10K and then announcing a surprise marathon debut at New York City, and Femke Bol continuing her 800 meter experiment with another PR. The crew runs a snake draft of the New York City pro marathon fields, Rory announces his Brussels hour run was canceled, Jacob confirms he's out of Chicago and headed to Valencia and CIM instead, and they close out with the Jonah Koech doping suspension: a US 1500 champion caught by the biological passport, quietly banned for a year before anyone said anything publicly.
Support our Sponsors:
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem
Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off.
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1 hr 21 min
#50: The Call-In Show: Hot Takes, Marathon Relay Drafts, and Desert Island Training Questions
Episode 50
Show notes
Episode 50 means it's time for another call-in show. Six guests phone in with hot takes, hypotheticals, and questions Jacob and Rory answer completely on the fly. No prep, no notes, just riffing.
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1 hr 9 min
#49 Truett Hanes on Chasing the OTQ and Going All In on a Goal That Scares You
Episode 49
Show notes
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Truett Hanes is in Flagstaff for a three-week training camp, halfway through it when this was recorded, and it's the most structured he's ever approached running. You probably know him from the pull-up world record, the blue jean marathons, or the Leadville 100 buckle, but now he's locked in on one thing: the Olympic Trials qualifier. Rory coaches him through Let's Tango, and this conversation covers how someone who bulldozed their way to a 2:29 on pure willpower had to completely rethink their approach, what the training has looked like in Flagstaff, and why the jump from 2:30 to OTQ is a different animal than anything he's done before. They also get into the haters, his dad's 11-minute marathon PR at 58, what it actually means to call your shot publicly, and some genuinely good advice on storytelling and content for anyone trying to build an audience around a big goal.
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1 hr 6 min
#48 Vincent Ciattei on Winning the US 5000m Title, Training as a Miler at Altitude, and the Dark Sky Squad
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Vincent Ciattei comes straight off USA Track and Field Championships in New York where he finished second in the 1500 by five hundredths of a second, sent a message to his college group chat saying he was winning the 5K the next day, and then did exactly that. First Dark Sky teammate on the pod, and one of the more interesting training conversations the show has had. Vincent is a 3:48 miler running 90-mile weeks at 7,000 feet, doing double threshold, hill circuits at Marshall Lake, and long tempos down in Camp Verde, and this year it all clicked. They get into what a training cycle actually looks like for a mid-distance guy, how he thinks about threshold intensity control, why the 5K is becoming a legitimate weapon for elite milers, what Dark Sky's massive training group brings out in each other, and the broader conversation around why the best Americans keep skipping USAs in off years and what could be done about it.
Goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order.
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
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1 hr 5 min
#47 Between Reps: Josh Kerr's Record, USAs, and Training Updates
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Jacob and Rory are back in Flagstaff after weeks on the road, and Jacob gives an update on his Achilles: no pain in four weeks, mileage climbing back up, and marathon training officially back on. They dig into the Chicago Marathon field announcement, with Sharon Lokedi as the headline story and a stacked American men's field chasing fast times. Then Josh Kerr's mile world record takes over, from the race itself to whether he could go after the 1500m record next, and why USA Outdoor Championships keep losing their biggest names to Europe. They close out with listener questions on training locations, gear from their college days, favorite non-major marathons, and what kids at running camp do better than grown adults.
https://www.thomsontraining.run/
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Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
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59 min
#46 Madey Dickson on Running 2:28 at Boston, Working Full Time as a Nurse, and Chasing Big Goals at Berlin
Episode 46
Show notes
Madey Dickson is a full-time ICU and ER nurse who runs 100 miles a week, smashed the OTQ by nine minutes at Boston, and won Puma's Project Three, all while working 12-hour shifts. Rory coaches her and they were teammates at BYU, where she was a middle distance runner who stumbled into the marathon almost by accident. They talk training around a nurse's schedule, self belief, the Berlin build, and what the 2028 Olympic Trials could look like for her.
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1 hr 4 min
#45 Between Reps - Summer Heat Training, Josh Kerr's World Record Attempt, and Fall Marathon Field Rumors With Chris Striegel
Episode 45
Show notes
Jacob, Rory, and Chris Striegel of the Life in Stride Podcast check in for a between reps episode packed with summer training talk and fall marathon buzz. They start with heat training -- what Chris is doing in Kentucky with a newborn, what Jacob survived in Orange Beach, and how to stop panicking about pace when it's 90 degrees and humid. They recap their Fourth of July races in Lexington and Rory's athlete Madey Dixon winning the downtown Flagstaff Mile in a course record. Then it's current events: Josh Kerr's world record attempt in the mile, Faith Kipyegon's first 1500 loss in five years to Nikki Hiltz, and what to watch at USA Track and Field Championships. They close out with fall marathon field speculation, Vinny Mauri's treadmill long run hype, and whether Athing Mu has quietly stepped away from the sport.
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1 hr 14 min
#44 NAZ Elite Coach Jack Mullaney on Building Team Culture, Alex Masai's Breakout, and Marathon Training Philosophy
Show notes
Jack Mullaney, head coach of NAZ Elite, joins Jacob and Rory at the Run Flagstaff studio for episode 44. Jack walked into one of the most storied professional running programs in the country two and a half years ago as a first-time head coach, inheriting a team mid-transition and figuring out how to build something that felt like his own. He talks about how he navigated that, what his five C's of coaching actually look like in practice, and why connection is the foundation he keeps coming back to. The conversation gets into the weeds on training philosophy: his three non-negotiables, why he's skeptical of silver bullet trends, and how he thinks about keeping all paces present year-round. They also deep dive into specifics of some of Jack's athletes' training and performances.
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
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59 min
#43 Steph Bruce on 20 Years as a Pro, Founding Picky Bars, the Stamata Project, and What Comes Next
Show notes
Steph Bruce joins Jacob and Rory at the new Run Flagstaff studio for episode 43 -- recorded six days after she and Rory both ran the Broken Arrow Sky Race Ascent. They start there, comparing notes on what is genuinely the hardest race either of them has ever done, and why neither of them were as prepared as they thought. From there the conversation opens up into Steph's full arc: the origin of Picky Bars, built out of a Eugene apartment with Lauren Fleshman and Jesse Thomas and eventually sold to Laird Hamilton's company; the NAZ Elite years and what that team did to change how professional running groups operate; her current role leading the Tracksmith Stamata project, which supports women chasing the Olympic Trials qualifier; and where she sees herself going now that trail and uphill racing have entered the picture. Nine Olympic Trials, a 15:17 5K, a 2:27 marathon, and she's still figuring out what's next. Honest, funny, and worth the full listen.
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
This episode is brought to you in part by Amazfit. Rory wore the Amazfit T-Rex 3 at Broken Arrow, where pace data goes out the window and elevation, distance, and heart rate are all that matter. Check out his full Broken Arrow race video on his personal YouTube channel here -- one of the best produced videos he's put out yet.
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1 hr 18 min
#42 Listener Q & A - Broken Arrow & MRI Update
Show notes
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Jacob and Rory check in on what's been a rocky few weeks for Jacob's Achilles -- paratendon inflammation that's forced him to pull most of his summer road races and lean hard into cross training. Rory previews his Broken Arrow Sky Race Ascent debut, his first pro trail outing, and explains why he picked the climb over a longer technical race. They also run through current events: Time's Most Influential list snubbing Noah Lyles, Cape Town joining the World Marathon Majors, the Kenyan takeover of NCAA distance running, and that bicarb ad. Then it's a full listener Q&A -- 23 questions covering rest weeks, double threshold training, shoe contracts, beer mile predictions, podcast white whales, and the worst training advice circulating online right now.
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