The Living Clean Podcast

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Recovery doesn't mean we stop experiencing emotional pain, spiritual struggles, or moments when life feels overwhelming. Sometimes, even with years clean, we find ourselves facing challenges that shake us to our core. So how do we navigate those moments without losing sight of our recovery?

In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, we continue our study of the Narcotics Anonymous book Living Clean: The Journey Continues, exploring the section "Emotional and Spiritual Crisis," paragraphs 4–9, on pages 111–113.

We're joined by four guests—Amber M., Erik J., Jason B., and Belinda—as we break down these paragraphs, share our personal experiences, and discuss what it means to face emotional and spiritual challenges while staying connected to the principles of recovery.

Together, we explore how difficult experiences can challenge our understanding of ourselves, our relationships, and our Higher Power—and how the tools of Narcotics Anonymous can help us find our way through.

Whether you're going through a crisis right now or simply looking to deepen your understanding of recovery, this conversation reminds us that we don't have to face life's challenges alone.

The heart of NA beats when two addicts share their recovery.

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In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, Francis sits down with Steve A. and Despie B. to explore the history, people, and spirit of the Berkeley Tuesday Night Candlelight meeting of Narcotics Anonymous, which celebrates its 60th anniversary in 2026.

Steve, who got clean in 1983, reaches back into his memories of the members who were carrying the message in those early years. He shares about his relationship with his sponsor, “Papa Ray,” and reflects on Papa Ray’s contribution to the Berkeley Candlelight and the lasting influence he had on Steve’s recovery.

Despie takes us through the history of the meeting and some of the changes she has witnessed over the years. She also shares a deeply personal part of her own journey—how her daughter influenced her decision to return to NA and the quiet, humble leadership that grew from simply showing up and serving.

Despie talks about the years she and her husband, Chris, served the Berkeley Candlelight together and what it has meant to continue carrying on after Chris’s passing.

This is more than the history of a meeting. It is a story about sponsorship, love, loss, service, perseverance, and the people who keep the doors of Narcotics Anonymous open for the next addict.

Berkeley Tuesday Night Candlelight — 1966–2026. Sixty years of carrying the message.

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Join us for another episode of The Living Clean Podcast as Francis takes us along on his big Midwestern adventure! What started as a trip through the heartland turned into a history quest filled with new friendships, unexpected discoveries, and a deeper connection to the history of Narcotics Anonymous.

From attending three different NA conventions to meeting members, hearing their stories, and uncovering pieces of our fellowship’s history, Francis shares the experiences and connections that made this journey special.

Along the way, he spent time with Todd and Kimmy in Kansas City, connected with fellow recovering addicts, and discovered once again how rich our history is and how powerful the bonds of our fellowship can be.

This episode is about more than traveling. It’s about preserving our history, carrying the message, and discovering that wherever we go, we are part of something much bigger than ourselves.

One fellowship. Countless stories. A message that continues to travel.

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Join Francis for a special two-part conversation with Mike R. from Mike and Chris’s Cool NA History Page.

Mike shares his personal journey: finding Narcotics Anonymous, getting clean, and the experiences that shaped his life and his connection to the fellowship.

Francis and Mike dive into their shared passion for Narcotics Anonymous history. They talk about collecting and preserving our history, the stories behind the memorabilia and literature, the people and events that helped shape NA, and why keeping these stories alive matters.

More than an interview, it’s a conversation between two addicts who genuinely love digging into NA’s past and preserving it for the future.

Two addicts. Two history enthusiasts. One shared passion for the story of Narcotics Anonymous.

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What does it take to preserve the history of Narcotics Anonymous, and what happens when a few dedicated members decide that the stories of those who came before us are too important to lose?

In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, we're joined by members of the Northern California History and Archives Committee to discuss their journey from a small history project during the COVID-19 pandemic to becoming an officially recognized regional subcommittee dedicated to preserving the history of NA.

We explore how Art M. and Francis C. began connecting with longtime members and NA predecessors, the challenges they faced in gaining support within the service structure, and how the determination of local Areas helped establish the committee in 2023.

Along the way, we discuss the importance of oral histories, the preservation of photographs, letters, meeting directories, newsletters, and other historical materials, and the incredible work that has gone into recording more than 100 interviews by the end of 2024.

We also talk about the committee's efforts to digitize historical collections, including materials from the San Francisco Area Service Office, and their work documenting the development of NA throughout Northern California.

Looking ahead, we explore one of their most ambitious projects yet: a comprehensive history book documenting the growth of Narcotics Anonymous throughout Northern California.

One of the most powerful messages from this conversation is simple: "You Are the Book." Every member has a story, every Area has a history, and every generation has a responsibility to preserve what was freely given to us.

This episode is a reminder that the history of Narcotics Anonymous isn't just found in old documents or photographs. It lives in the experiences of the addicts who carried the message, built our service structure, opened meeting doors, and helped make recovery possible for those who followed.

Preserving our past. Documenting our journey. Sharing our history with future generations.

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Be the Change SeriesWhat does commitment look like in Narcotics Anonymous service?Sometimes it is as simple as showing http://up.In this special Be the Change episode, Dee M. from Cookeville, Tennessee joins David, Francis, Amanda, and Travis for a conversation about commitment and service and the first exercise in Be the Change #6: Spiritual Principles in NA Service.Exercise 1 — Showing UpSpiritual Principle: Commitment“When we come together in service, we connect with each other in a vital way.”— Guiding Principles, p. 13Commitment doesn't always require doing something big. It can mean arriving a few minutes early, staying until the work is finished, being dependable, and making ourselves available to the fellowship.We explore how simply showing up connects us to something greater than ourselves. When we place our time, energy, and willingness at the service of NA, we help strengthen our groups, support one another, and make sure the message remains available to the addict who still suffers.This week's practice:Arrive a few minutes early.Stay until everything is finished.Then ask yourself: How did simply showing up help carry the message today?Join Dee M., David, Francis, Amanda, and Travis as we talk about commitment, willingness, responsibility, and what happens when recovering addicts keep showing up for each http://other.You don't have to change http://everything.Show up. Be willing. Be the change.Come back for the next exercise in the Be the Change: Spiritual Principles in NA Service series on the Living Clean Podcast.

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This week on The Living Clean Podcast, we continue our journey through the Twelve Steps with Step Ten—the beginning of learning how to practice what we’ve gained in recovery as part of our everyday lives.

Our returning panel of Archer, Pete, and Douglas is back, and this week we’re joined by Ali and Rufus to talk about what it means to continue taking personal inventory.

Step Ten teaches us that recovery isn’t about reaching a point where we stop making mistakes. It’s about becoming willing to recognize them sooner, take responsibility for them, and make things right before they have a chance to pile up. We talk about daily inventory, promptly admitting when we’re wrong, watching for old patterns, and learning the difference between healthy self-examination and beating ourselves up.

We also explore what “promptly” really means, why admitting we’re wrong can still be difficult even after working the first nine steps, and how Step Ten helps prevent resentments, dishonesty, fear, and other problems from quietly building back into our lives.

The first nine steps have helped us clean up much of our past. Step Ten helps us keep today clean.

Join Archer, Pete, Douglas, Ali, and Rufus as we share experience, strength, and hope about living Step Ten—not perfectly, but consistently—and learning how regular inventory, accountability, and course correction can become a way of life.

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Sometimes the best conversations are the ones you don’t plan.

In this spontaneous episode of The Living Clean Podcast, Francis sits down with J.W. for an open and personal conversation about where life has him today. J.W. shares about his current health issues, the spiritual principles that help him navigate difficult circumstances, and what recovery looks like when life shows up on life’s terms.

Along the way, Francis and J.W. talk about The Living Clean Podcast, Narcotics Anonymous, friendship, gratitude, spirituality, service, and a whole lot of other things in between. No agenda. No script. Just two addicts sitting down and sharing their experience with each other.

The heart of NA beats when two addicts share their recovery.

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In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, we sit down with the Māori woman from Aotearoa, New Zealand, who wrote “Kia Ora Koutou,” one of the personal stories published in the Narcotics Anonymous Basic Text.

The episode begins with a narration of her powerful story—a woman who entered treatment kicking and screaming, got clean partly out of stubbornness and spite, and slowly discovered hope through the message of Narcotics Anonymous. She shares honestly about the progression of her addiction, losing the trust of her whānau, surviving her earliest cravings ten minutes at a time, grieving her old way of life, and eventually rebuilding her relationship with her children, earning a university degree, and creating a life she once believed was impossible.

After hearing “Kia Ora Koutou,” we speak directly with its author about the experiences behind those words and everything that has happened during the 23 years since she wrote them. We explore her Māori identity, family, spirituality, recovery, and the many ways her understanding of hope and freedom has continued to grow.

This is more than an update to a story from the Basic Text. It is living proof that an addict can stop using, lose the desire to use, and find a new way to live.

Arohanui—big love.

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The Newcomer Montage returns with a second collection of voices speaking directly to the most important person in Narcotics Anonymous: the newcomer.

This montage covers episodes of The Living Clean Podcast from November 3, 2024, through December 28, 2025—a period that also represents an important chapter in the evolution of the podcast. It begins around the time Francis joins Mason as co-host, and the two begin recording together on a regular weekly basis.

During these conversations, Mason again starts making a point of asking our guests a simple question:

“Is there anything you would like to share with the newcomer?”

The answers were never scripted. Some are brief, some emotional, some practical, and some come from members with decades of experience. Put together, they become a collection of experience, strength, hope, encouragement, and reminders of what helped each person stay clean.

Through this episode, the purpose remains simple: carrying the message to the addict who still suffers.

If you're new, coming back, struggling, or simply need to remember what it felt like when you first walked through the doors, these voices are speaking to you.

Keep coming back. Give yourself a chance. Listen to the people who have walked this road before you. You never have to do this alone.

Welcome home.

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In this Living Clean Book Study episode, we begin the section “Spiritual and Emotional Crisis,” covering the first four paragraphs.

Recovery doesn’t mean we stop going through hard things. Sometimes the crisis isn’t about wanting to use—it’s about feeling disconnected, overwhelmed, uncertain, or struggling to make sense of what we’re going through.

We discuss what Living Clean has to say about these difficult periods, what they can reveal about where we are spiritually and emotionally, and how staying connected to recovery can help us move through them without returning to old ways of coping.

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Mo returns to The Living Clean Podcast to lead a panel discussion exploring gender bias in sponsorship and the traditional “men with men, women with women” approach.

What happens when we look at sponsorship outside of heteronormative and binary thinking? How do gender, sexual orientation, attraction, safety, identification, and personal experience influence who we choose as a sponsor? And most importantly, how can we make sure the newcomer has access to the guidance and support they need?

Mo is joined by a panel representing different communities and perspectives:

Shane C. — Vacaville, California

Elaine — Ben Lomond, California

Veronica M. — Paradise, California

Evan — Tupelo, Mississippi

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This week on The Living Clean Podcast, we sit down with Michael M., who has been clean since August 17, 1975.

Michael takes us back to his early days in recovery and shares what Narcotics Anonymous looked like at that time, including his involvement in the early development of the fellowship in his area and his experience attending the 7th World Convention.

From there, we get into Michael’s many years of service and some of the major changes he witnessed and participated in as NA grew. We talk about his involvement with It Works: How and Why, the Sixth Edition of the Basic Text, the development of the first World Board, and his experience serving as the first chair of the World Board.

Along the way, Michael shares stories from more than 50 years of recovery and service and gives us a firsthand look at some of the people, decisions, challenges, and changes that helped shape Narcotics Anonymous into the worldwide fellowship it is today.

There is a whole lot of NA history in this one, but more importantly, there is a whole lot of recovery.

Join us for a conversation with Michael M., clean since August 17, 1975, on this week’s episode of The Living Clean Podcast.

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The Paradise Strong Book Study presents a special historical meeting commemorating the 40th anniversary of Narcotics Anonymous’ Sixth World Literature Conference, held in Miami, Florida, in September 1981.

The World Literature Conferences were an extraordinary period in NA history. Members from across the Fellowship came together to write, review, organize, and shape the material that would eventually become the Narcotics Anonymous Basic Text. By the time members gathered for the Sixth World Literature Conference, years of work at conferences, regional literature committees, workshops, and through correspondence had brought the Fellowship closer than ever to having its own book.

Chris and Boyd from Preserving the Message join the Paradise Strong Book Study and take us back into that history through a PowerPoint presentation, archival material, and the voices of members who participated in the literature movement.

During the presentation, we hear historical audio from Charles K., Sally Evans, Doug W., and Mary Banner, offering firsthand memories of the conference and the remarkable grassroots effort that surrounded the writing of the Basic Text.

The meeting then opens for discussion and sharing. Bo S., Charles K., Al R., Mark B., Bryant S., Henry S., and Pete B. add their own experience, memories, and reflections on the literature movement and the history being preserved.

The Sixth World Literature Conference represents an important chapter in the story of NA literature—a time when recovering addicts took responsibility for putting their collective experience into words. That work helped carry the Basic Text toward the 1982 World Service Conference, where the book was approved by the Fellowship’s service structure, followed by publication of the First Edition in 1983.

Five years ago, members gathered to remember what had happened forty years earlier. Today, Francis’s Archive brings that meeting back so another generation can hear the history in the voices of those who helped live it.

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This week on The Living Clean Podcast, Francis and Mason mark the 45th anniversary of the 6th World Literature Conference, held in Miami, Florida, September 14–20, 1981.

In Part One of this special episode, we go day by day through the conference, using the original minutes and historical records to look at what was actually happening in the room as members worked to complete the Narcotics Anonymous Basic Text. We talk about the unfinished chapters, the debates over How It Works, the all-night group conscience meetings, the heat, the typewriters and photocopiers, the disagreements, the laughter, and the incredible amount of work that eventually led to one simple sentence being recorded in the minutes on September 20:

“The book is finished.”

This episode sets the stage for Part Two, where you’ll hear firsthand memories from people who were actually there in Miami and participated in this historic conference.

For an even deeper look at the 6th World Literature Conference, visit http://PreservingTheMessage.org and check out the accompanying presentation on the Preserving the Message YouTube channel.

Links to the blog and YouTube presentation are included below.

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What does it really mean when we say, "The therapeutic value of one addict helping another is without parallel"?

In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, Francis sits down with Chris C. from Yreka, California, an active member of Recovery at Work (RAW), to explore one of the most recognizable sentences in Narcotics Anonymous literature.

Using the unique RAW format, Chris thoughtfully breaks down the statement one phrase at a time, revealing the depth, practical application, and spiritual principles contained within these few powerful words. Together, they discuss how addicts carrying a message of hope to other addicts creates a connection that no professional treatment, education, or outside resource can fully duplicate.

Along the way, Francis does his best to navigate the RAW format—with a few stumbles, laughs, and plenty of humility—making for an engaging conversation that's both insightful and entertaining.

Whether you're new to recovery, active in service, or simply curious about why peer-to-peer recovery has transformed millions of lives, this episode offers a fresh perspective on a timeless principle.

Join us for a thoughtful conversation about the simple yet profound power of addicts helping addicts.

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This week on The Living Clean Podcast, we continue our journey through the Twelve Steps with Step Nine—the step where the preparation of Step Eight becomes action.

Our returning panel of Archer, Pete, and Douglas is back, and this week we’re joined by Brandon B. and Lucy for an honest conversation about making direct amends.

We talk about what an amends actually is, the fear that can come before making one, the difference between an apology and an amends, and why repairing the damage from our past is about much more than simply saying “I’m sorry.” We also explore the important qualification built into the step—“except when to do so would injure them or others”—and why willingness, guidance, timing, and our motives matter.

Step Nine gives us an opportunity to stop hiding from the past without becoming trapped in it. We take responsibility for the harm we caused, do what we can to make things right, and begin experiencing a different kind of freedom—the freedom that comes from cleaning up our side of the street.

Join us for Step Nine as Brandon B., Lucy, Archer, Pete, and Douglas share their experience, strength, and hope about making amends and what happens when we finally become willing to face the people and situations we once wanted to avoid.

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September 5 is World Unity Day, and Francis and I decided there was no better reason to jump behind the microphones for a spontaneous special episode of The Living Clean Podcast.

Unity has always been at the heart of Narcotics Anonymous. We come from different places, different backgrounds, and different experiences, but we share a common purpose: to carry the NA message to the addict who still suffers.

In this special episode, Francis and I talk about what unity actually means in NA, why Tradition One — “Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends on NA unity” — matters far beyond the words on the page, and what it means to belong to a worldwide Fellowship.

We’ll also talk about World Unity Day 2026, when NA members around the world will pause together, share the Serenity Prayer, and reflect on the Fellowship and our primary purpose.

No big production. No guest. Just Francis and me having a conversation about something we both love: Narcotics Anonymous, our worldwide Fellowship, and the unity that makes all of this possible.

Happy Unity Day from The Living Clean Podcast.

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What started as a simple message turned into an unexpected journey through the history of Narcotics Anonymous in Indiana.

After receiving a random request for ideas and questions for the Dinosaur Panel at the 40th Annual Fun in the Sun Hog Roast in the South Central Area of Indiana, Francis realized there was a much bigger story waiting to be told. Instead of just helping prepare for the panel, he sat down with Indiana's own NA History Couple, Jessica R. and Tony R., to explore the rich history of the fellowship throughout the Hoosier State.

Whether you're attending the 40th Annual Fun in the Sun Hog Roast, interested in NA history, or simply enjoy hearing how the message of recovery spread one addict at a time, this episode is filled with experience, strength, hope—and a few unexpected turns.

Recovery is built one addict helping another, and our history reminds us how we got here.

The Living Clean Podcast is dedicated to preserving the history of Narcotics Anonymous and sharing the stories of the members who carried the message so that others could find recovery.

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In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, we sit down with Pamela T. to hear her recovery story and explore a journey through Narcotics Anonymous service that has taken her into some fascinating places.

Pamela shares her experience helping establish a new NA area and being involved during the early days of what was, at the time, a groundbreaking approach to service: Consensus-Based Decision Making (CBDM). We talk about what it was like watching those ideas develop, learning a different way of reaching decisions, and seeing how service structures evolve over time.

Her journey eventually took her to the NA World Service Office, where she had the opportunity to serve in different roles and participate in workgroups connected to NA literature. We discuss some of that experience, including her involvement with Guiding Principles: The Spirit of Our Traditions and A Spiritual Principle a Day.

This conversation is part recovery story, part NA history, and part look behind the curtain at how service and literature actually develop. More than anything, it is the story of where saying yes to service can take one recovering addict—and the experiences, relationships, and lessons picked up along the way.