The TrainingBeta Podcast: A Climbing Training Podcast

Dr. Jared Vagy, “The Climbing Doctor,” is back on the podcast to talk about crimping. Specifically, he covers the finger and hand muscles most climbers never train, and why that might be important for your pulleys and overall hand health.

Jared has a new book, The Resilient Climber, which breaks down 40 climbing movements by their mobility, strength, and movement demands. In this episode he applies that framework to the crimp. His core argument: climbers train their long finger flexors in one direction, over and over. That’s a lot like runners who build huge quads and hamstrings but neglect the side-hip muscles that stabilize the knee. The smaller stabilizing muscles in the hand get left behind, and Jared sees that pattern constantly in injured climbers.

Show Links

• The Climbing Doctor: Jared’s site, with free blog posts and programs
• The Resilient Climber
• Climb Injury-Free
• Videos from the episode:

• Finger extensor strengthening
• Pom-pom gripping
• Pen rolling
• Finger joint decompression

• Jared sees climbers in person in Los Angeles and does remote sessions for climbers in CO, UT, and CA. He also keeps a referral list of climbing-savvy providers on his site.

Coach Matt Pincus recently got back from an extremely productive 2-month bouldering trip to Rocklands in South Africa, and he’s on the podcast to tell us all about it.

Matt’s hardest boulder to date is V12, and on this trip he sent 36 new boulders:

• 3 x V11
• 4 x V10
• 4 x V9 (1 flash)
• 9 x V8
• 1 x V7
• 9 x V6
• and a bunch of V5 and lower

At one point, he sent a double digit boulder 6 sessions in a row climbing day on day off!

In the episode, he explains:

• how he prepared for the trip (not much)
• how he planned out his climbing schedule
• how he maintained his skin
• why he didn’t focus on any one boulder for very long
• what he realized he needs to train that he's been neglecting for years

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Matt had such an amazing trip after making the lifestyle changes this past year that he talked about in ​his last interview​.

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Or find episode 319 of The TrainingBeta Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

This episode was just super exciting to hear about all the success Matt had – sending is fun, and it’s gratifying to see all of Matt’s hard work as a climber pay off for him this year.

Matt Can Help You Send Too

Matt can help you reach your own climbing goals, whether they’re with bouldering or route climbing. He’s available for coaching commitments where he’ll talk with you over zoom and create a program for you and keep in touch with you via the TrueCoach app throughout the duration of your training program.

He’ll help you get stronger and he’ll cater to your specific goals so that you can go out and send your dream boulders and routes.

​Learn More about Working with Matt

Coach Zoe Sayetta is back on the show, and this time she’s talking about something she’s been seeing constantly in her coaching: athletes who have trouble holding two feelings about the same performance at once. You either crushed it or you blew it. You’re a good slab climber or a bad one. There’s no room for “I’m proud of this AND I’m disappointed by this,” and Zoe thinks that binary trap is quietly shaping how climbers see themselves, compete, and recover from setbacks.

We get into how to actually sit with disappointment instead of talking yourself out of it, why social comparison isn’t automatically the enemy, what it looks like to let a competitive “killer instinct” back into a team culture built on support, and why owning your biggest goals out loud matters more than people think. We close on a heavier but important topic: body image, RED-S, and eating disorders among elite climbers, and how coaches can respond responsibly when they see an athlete in trouble. Find Zoe at http://www.sayettacoaching.com.

Coach Alex Stiger joins Neely to break down what a "plateau" actually is — because most climbers lump together very different problems under that one word, and that's part of why it's so hard to get unstuck.

In this episode:

• The three patterns of progress: linear, growth-spurt, and wave
• Four types of plateaus — psych, strength, grade, and mental — and why the fix is different for each
• Why some plateaus don't need fixing at all
• Zooming out before zooming in: consistency, overusing what already worked, trap grades, recovery, and structure
• Alex's story of climbing better while getting weaker, and what that reveals about false narratives
• Practical tools to progress in every session
• Why changing your partner, gym, or discipline is one of the fastest ways out of a rut

Alex has three coaching spots open right now for the first time in a long time! Email her at alex@trainingbeta.com to work with her.

Lillian Frances is a rock climber, music producer, and the author of Finger Banging for Climber Boys, a 50-page illustrated guide to female sexual pleasure, consent, and communication written for the climbing community. She makes a compelling case that asking for what you want isn't a mood-killer: it's the thing that makes everything better, on the wall and off it.

We talk about how to set boundaries before a sexy situation escalates, why saying no is actually hot, how "belay on / climb on" is consent too, and why the way a partner reacts to a "no" tells you everything you need to know about them. Fair warning: we use explicit language throughout.

Chuck Odette is 70 years old, has been climbing for 47 years, and is currently projecting 5.13 with a hip replacement on the horizon and a shoulder replacement behind him. His partner Maggie is 56 and working toward yet another 5.14 send a year out from her own shoulder surgery. Together they've been living and climbing full-time out of a trailer for 11 years, having retired at 59 and 45. In this episode, we talk about living peacefully together in small quarters, navigating a number of surgeries, why Chuck has always prioritized building muscle over staying light, Maggie's experience with menopause and rebuilding muscle in her 50s, how they train outdoors full-time, and the dietary shift in Chuck's early 40s that took him from 5.13- to his first 5.14a in a six-month period — the same year he became a grandfather. This one is for anyone who has ever wondered if you can still climb hard past your 30s and 40s.

Coach Matt Pincus recently sent a three-season project at Wolf Point, and we thought you might be able to take something away from his experience on it. He changed a lot of things about his life in order to send this route. While Matt has sent numerous 5.14a's and b's at Wolf Point, this route was 5.13d, but it was more challenging for him in a few ways. In this episode, we talk about exactly what he changed in his training and his lifestyle in order to send the route and become a healthier human in the process.

Dr. Maria Stefania Ionel is a clinical and sport psychologist, postdoctoral researcher, and 8b climber based in Romania who has spent the last decade studying the psychology of climbing specifically. In this episode we talk about what personality traits actually predict climbing performance (grit and openness to experience top the list), the difference between fear of falling and climbing anxiety, perfectionism as a double-edged sword, and how to recognize athletic burnout before it becomes something more serious.

Maria is currently running a research study on stress, burnout, and mental health in climbers of all levels. If you've been climbing for at least a year — any discipline, any level — you qualify. It's four surveys over four weeks and fully anonymous.

👉 Take the survey: https://unibuc.questionpro.com/a/TakeSurvey?tt=T/9YT60gbdYECHrPeIW9eQ%3D%3D

Full show notes with links to Maria's research and contact info: trainingbeta.com/media/maria-stefania-ionel-burnout

Neely Quinn and climbing coach Alex sit down to talk through one of the most common — and least discussed — challenges in climbing: the friction between partners. They cover emotional projection, mismatched goals, unsolicited beta, belay trust issues, passive aggression, sacrifice dynamics, competition between partners, and trip planning stress. Both share candid stories from their own partnerships, and Neely explains what couples coaching for climbers actually looks like and how she helps partners hear each other differently. Whether you climb with a romantic partner, a close friend, or a family member, this one will resonate.

Matt Pincus is back, and this time we're going deep on the how of board climbing — not the pros and cons of each board like we talked about last time. Matt will tell you how to use boards well and have good etiquette while you're doing it. Whether you're getting in your head about crowded sessions, unsure if you're working the right problems, or stuck in a plateau you can't explain, this episode is for you. Matt coaches athletes on board climbing regularly, and this conversation is essentially a distillation of the most common friction points he hears — along with his direct, practical answers. I add my own experience throughout, and together we cover a lot of ground.

In this episode, I talk with neurologist and headache specialist Dr. Danielle Wilhour about migraine headaches and how they affect climbers and athletes, in general. We discuss common triggers, exercise and recovery, hormonal influences, and the role of medications, supplements, and lifestyle factors in managing migraines. Dr. Wilhour also explains the different phases of a migraine and shares practical strategies for prevention and treatment.

In this solo episode, host and integrative nutrition therapist Neely Quinn digs into a topic that doesn't get enough airtime in the climbing world: food anxiety. Neely breaks down the most common reasons climbers feel stressed about what they eat — from carb fear and fullness phobia to rigid food rules and weight-gain worry — and shares practical, compassionate strategies for each one.

She also opens up about her own recent experience adjusting her diet after starting hormone replacement therapy, and what it looked like to approach that change as a scientist rather than from a place of shame. Whether your anxiety around food is mild or it's genuinely affecting your daily life, this episode will leave you with new ways to think about eating — and more space in your brain for climbing.

Topics covered: carb fear, fullness anxiety, food myths, food rules, weight management, eating disorder resources, and working with a nutrition or mindset coach.

In this episode, Coach Alex Stiger and I talked about the ways we see our clients overtraining and the consequences it has on their bodies, minds, and climbing performance. We also share how we overdo it ourselves, and how that has affected us. We go into the causes of overtraining: feeling like more is better, fearing falling behind, not knowing how much training is enough, and as Alex calls it, "chasing fatigue." I talk about the ways I work with my mindset coaching clients on this to help them gain perspective and talk to themselves differently.

Coach Matt Pincus came on the show to talk about something he knows a LOT about: board climbing! It’s a popular topic and he gets a lot of questions from his clients about which board to use, how to use it, and for what, so we’re going to cover a bunch of info about it today. Matt is one of our coaches here at TrainingBeta and he uses boards in his own training and in his clients’ training (and just for fun and performance purposes).

Details

• Most common questions he gets from clients about boards
• Who should NOT use boards, if anyone
• Training value of boards
• Pros and cons of the popular boards (Moon, Kilter, Tension, spray wall)
• 3 session types to train each of the energy systems
• Common pitfalls with board climbing
• What to use the boards for
• What grades Matt sends on boards vs. outdoors
• How to not get wrapped up in board grades

Show Links

• Performance Bouldering Training Program ($18/mo with a 7-day free trial)
• Performance Route Climbing Training Program ($18/mo with 7-day free trial)
• Train with Coach Matt Pincus

Train with Matt Pincus

If you want Matt to help you with your own goals, whether they’re with bouldering or route climbing, he’s available for month-long commitments where he’ll talk with you over zoom and create a program for you and keep in touch with you via the TrueCoach app throughout the month.

He’ll help you get stronger and he’ll cater to your specific goals so that the timing is right for you to send when it’s time to send.

Learn More about Working with Matt

Therapist Emma McAdam discusses using exposure therapy, mindfulness, and self compassion to decrease fear of falling in climbing. Emma is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in Utah who has a youtube channel (@TherapyInANutshell) and online courses on her website www.therapyinanutshell.com where you can learn therapeutic tools on your own time. I really appreciate Emma's warm, down-to-Earth approach and her relatable way of speaking and teaching. Emma is also a climber and has a video specifically about how to use exposure therapy and self-compassion to decrease fear of falling in climbing.

What we covered in the interview:

• Where to start with fear of falling
• How to practice teaching your brain it's safe to fall
• 2 things that fuel anxiety
• What is the emotion of fear asking you?
• Building an exposure hierarchy
• How to practice falling in a productive way
• Difference between risk "tolerance" and risk "choice"

In this episode, Coach Alex Stiger gives some sage advice to beginner climbers about how to get off to a great start in your climbing journey. Alex is a climbing coach to all levels of climbers all over the world, but she was also the program director and head coach at a climbing gym for years. She knows a LOT about the proper ways to spend your time, invest in resources, and self-reflect in order to become the best climber you can be in the shortest amount of time.

Interview Details

• Classes and instruction you should get
• 6 Biggest mistakes to avoid (shoes, poor movement habits, etc.)
• 8 Technique and skill tips that will make a huge difference
• How to avoid injury
• Cultivating good climbing relationships

I think that even if you’ve been climbing for a couple of years, this episode could have a lot of great information for you, or if you hang out with beginner climbers, this episode will give you a lot of knowledge to share with them!

Join Alex's wait list to work with her as your coach at trainingbeta.com/waitlist.

In this episode I do a full mindset coaching session with Maren Krammer, a 33-yr-old climber who struggles to feel like she is a part of the community when she’s surrounded by stronger climbers than herself. She feels shy, stifled, and unwilling to try hard for fear of judgment and rejection from others. It affects her self-esteem and hinders her climbing progression, and she wanted to work through it.

We do a full 60-minute mindset coaching session where we break down her thoughts, emotions, limiting beliefs, and gremlin talk (the voice that says “you’re not good enough”). By the end, Maren has a clearer understanding of why she feels so intimidated around stronger climbers and tools to help her be confident in herself and feel more a part of the community.

Work with Me on Your Mindset in Climbing

If you want to work with me one-on-one, I’m accepting new mindset coaching clients. We can work on your fears in climbing, performance anxiety, and anything that is holding you back from enjoying climbing. Go totrainingbeta.com/mindset for more info.

Natalia Grossman is a 24-year-old American professional climber who lives in Salt Lake City, Utah. She broke onto the World Cup scene in 2021 when she became the overall Bouldering World Cup champion and finished in second place in the overall Lead World Cup. That same year, she won World Championships in Moscow in Bouldering and placed 2nd in Lead.

She proceeded to win the overall Bouldering World Cup in 2022, 2023, and 2024, making her the most successful American World Cup climber in history. In 2022 she came in 3rd place for the overall Lead World Cup season. In 2023 she also won the Pan Am Games in Santiago in both Bouldering and Lead. She qualified for the Olympics in 2024 and finished in 11th place.

In February of this year (2025), she unfortunately tore her ACL and meniscus, and sprained her MCL during a training session and had to have surgery. She is now about 9 months out from surgery and has won both competitions she entered: the Lead North American Cup in Salt Lake in August and the Bouldering Pan American Cup in Colombia in November.

Besides competition climbing, she has sent up to V14 and 5.14c outside, but has focused most of her time and training on World Cup comps. Natalia graduated from University of Colorado at Boulder with a degree in psychology and is considering getting her master’s in mental health counseling.

In this interview, we talk about her comeback from her surgery, her mindset for competition climbing, and her training, among many other things:

More Details:

• How she injured herself
• Her injury rehab and how it’s changed her as a climber
• How she got so good at climbing
• What impact her coaches have had on her
• What sets her apart from other climbers
• What it’s like competing with your best friends
• How the pressures to be light have affected her
• What she eats
• What she sacrifices to be a champion
• How she trains

It was an honor to interview someone I have watched compete for years (I love watching World Cups!), and I appreciated Natalia giving us her time and being so vulnerable in sharing about her life.

In this episode, Coach Alex Stiger and I reflect on the important lessons and mindset shifts we've gained after NOT sending projects. Whether it's a renewed motivation to train and grow as a climber or the realization that we just don't want to try that hard anyore, we go through the gammut of what we have experienced as a result of not sending. Alex asked her clients about their own learnings from not sending and shares them in this episode.

Some Things We Talked About

• What deconstructing that attachment to sending can do for our climbing and life
• Tools that have helped Alex and her clients start approaching possible failure with curiosity, confidence, and even some joy vs avoidance, anxiety, and dread
• Fact vs. fiction about what the experience of sending/not sending actually does to us

Coach Matt Pincus and I sat down and talked through 3 habits that we have formed over months or years that have led us to become better climbers.

Matt’s 3 Habits

• Doing his finger training as part of his warmup for indoor sessions
• Having a clear plan/objective for every day out
• Questioning why he falls off by asking, “Why?” three to five times

Neely's 3 Habits

• My "Three Questions" that keep me in a positive headspace
• Continual fall practice
• Nudging myself to get on things that intimidate me

Link to Matt's 6-Month Coaching Package - www.trainingbeta.com/matt