The CIRS Group Podcast

In this CIRS Group podcast episode, Jacie and Barbara discuss ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as Lou Gehrig’s disease, describing it as a rare, progressive, fatal motor neuron disease that leads to muscle weakness, speech and swallowing difficulties, and eventually respiratory failure. They explain that most cases are considered sporadic, prompting research into environmental “multi-hit” contributors alongside genetic susceptibility. The conversation focuses on evidence connecting cyanobacteria and the neurotoxin BMAA to ALS, including the Guam ALS/Parkinsonism-dementia complex, ALS clustering around Lake Mascoma in New Hampshire, broader regional clusters in New England, and studies linking poor lake quality and cyanobacterial markers to higher ALS risk, with possible airborne exposure. They also explore overlaps with CIRS/mold illness mechanisms, mention home testing options for cyanobacteria, and review preliminary research on L-serine as a potential way to slow functional decline.

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Welcome and ALS Overview
00:39 Why ALS Matters Here
03:14 CIRS Connection and Disclaimers
05:47 What ALS Does to the Body
06:53 Sporadic ALS and Multi Hit Theory
08:50 Guam Clues and BMAA Toxin
10:01 New England Lake Hotspots
12:10 Airborne Exposure and Protein Folding
14:56 Where CIRS Fits In
17:48 Practical Steps and Home Testing
20:13 L Serine Research and Dosing
22:11 CIRS Next Steps and Wrap Up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie discuss COVID, spike protein, long COVID, and possible connections to CIRS. DISCLAIMER: This is educational and not medical advice. Always consult your own medical professional before doing any of the protocols discussed here.

They explain spike protein’s role in viral cell entry via ACE2 receptors, note it can be produced during infection and temporarily after certain vaccinations, and share Jacie’s experience of worsening health during COVID times that improved after a spike protein protocol. They describe theories for persistent symptoms (viral reservoirs, ongoing replication), symptom overlap with CIRS (inflammation, clotting, neuro issues), and available testing—especially LabCorp spike antibody testing, plus a Texas lab option to measure spike protein directly. They reference Shoemaker’s 2021 genomic study on persistent symptoms and discuss i-Recover/Independent Medical Alliance approaches such as intermittent fasting, nattokinase, bromelain, quercetin, ivermectin, LDN, melatonin, NAC, and graded exercise, as well as any potential adverse effects. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro and disclaimer
01:11 Jacie's personal spike protocol story
02:51 What spike protein does
03:43 Vaccines and shedding debate
06:24 Why spike protein persists in the body
07:42 How to test for spike antibodies
10:55 How spike protein affects the body
14:38 CIRS Research liked to Long COVID
17:44 Treatment side quests
18:31 i-Recover protocol basics
21:25 Benefits of intermittent fasting (14 hours)
22:25 Nattokinase: benefits and risks
26:05 Bromelain: benefits and risks
27:23 Quercetin: for inflammation
30:16 Ivermectin: benefits and risks
33:45 Other IMA / i-Recover suggestions
37:28 Slowly graded exercise
38:11 Should you test for spike protein?
41:16 Outro

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Any Lab Now Spike Protein test (or search their site to find one in your area): https://www.anylabtestnow.com/henderson-89074/tests/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-generated-antibody-test/
LabCorp COVID-19 antibody test: https://www.ondemand.labcorp.com/lab-tests/covid-19-antibody-test
Dr. Shoemaker's published research on COVID: https://www.survivingmold.com/Publications/MRA_FINAL_6_14_21_Treatable_metabolic_and_inflammatory_abnormalities_in_Pos.pdf
Our interview about LPS (endotoxins) in the gut: https://youtu.be/7H6CKEhIMSU?si=EFJfBoUlSn4Pzv0u
i-Recover Protocol: https://imahealth.org/protocol/i-recover-long-covid-treatment/

Research cited during this episode:
Spike Protein and Bacterial Endotoxin Interactions: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7799037/
Nattokinase and Spike Protein Degradation: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9458005/
Bromelain and SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7811777/
Quercetin and Spike-Mediated Cell Fusion: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10811921/
2026 Study: Persistent SARS-CoV-2 Antigens and Long COVID: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/42323109/
IMA/FLCCC I-RECOVER Treatment Protocol: https://imahealth.org/protocol/i-recover-long-covid-treatment/

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie discuss what to do when the Shoemaker protocol/CIRS treatment feels intolerable. They stress testing the home (ERMI or HERTSMI-2 dust testing at minimum, ideally including actinos and endotoxins) and choosing to leave, remediate, or use temporary “Band-Aids” like a safe room with an Air Oasis, frequent cleaning, or even sleeping outside in a low-VOC tent. They cover cautious binder use (especially if still in exposure), avoiding risky “crazy supports” like Neuro Plasmalogens too early, and using stabilizing supportive strategies such as morning sunlight, sleep, omega-3s, and ensuring daily bowel movements. They compare binders from gentlest to strongest (chitosan, MycoBind, Welchol, compounded CSM) and suggest re-checking other exposures (Lyme/tick-borne, spike protein, dental issues, implants) if binders aren’t tolerated. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro and disclaimer
00:39 When the protocol feels impossible
02:30 How to deal with exposure
04:10 Leave or remediate?
06:00 Create a safe room
07:40 Camping: living in tents
09:29 Low dose Binders while in exposure
12:06 Avoid risky supplements
15:31 More tolerable supports and strategies: sun, sleep, mindset
17:39 Prep for binders: Omega 3s and regular bowel movements
22:27 Binder options ranked
25:38 If you really can't tolerate the binders at all
29:46 Detoxing with self care

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Our episode on dust testing: https://youtu.be/ugKumIiWyGY?si=T80EPSsPO9GG9ziq
Our episode on renting with CIRS: https://youtu.be/ZCjCbxKeYQ0?si=5MYBmS-BfejLXiII
Our episodes on remediation:
Bill Weber: https://youtu.be/RlKjTqVAeNU?si=lQyBtsgDQIXAaY5c
Michael Schrantz: https://youtu.be/_BEwFVdpRcY?si=c-6A3TaoI8G0Xcc_
Max McCord: https://youtu.be/FqixkBGj4Bo?si=ghBshOOv0mNdsg5Z
Low VOC Tent: https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/2021/01/camping-with-mcs.html
Our plasmalogens episode: https://youtu.be/wnTYoYYP15k?si=3itC8krsopRfsKbI
our episode about tick borne illness with Dr. Milani: https://youtu.be/kaao2kwt1mA?si=pLFj_UGQHNGTvnt5
Our Chris Williamson episode: https://youtu.be/5uTs5B6ySHQ?si=xVkyCZfHcq772_uo

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Dust Testing Showdown: EnviroBiomics vs Liz Biotech vs Mycometrics (ERMI/HERTSMI-2 Experiment)

In this CIRS Group Podcast episode, Barbara describes a controlled dust-test experiment comparing MSQ PCR/ERMI results across three CIRS-relevant labs—EnviroBiomics, Liz Biotech, and Mycometrics—using dust collected the same day from the same home and surfaces, divided into left/middle/right sections to reduce sampling bias. The labs returned very different ERMI/HERTSMI-2 scores (Mycometrics 7.4/12, Liz Biotech 13.4/18, EnviroBiomics 18.8/20), while showing broadly similar mold “fingerprints,” suggesting major differences in reported concentrations rather than species detected. They emphasize the test does not prove which lab is correct, recommend using the same lab for pre/post remediation comparisons, and focusing more on individual species profiles than top-line scores. Because all tests detected Stachybotrys and Chaetomium, Barbara suggests repeated deep cleaning, room-by-room retesting with one lab, and involving a CIRS-literate IEP if results remain concerning, while also sharing pricing, feature differences, and a prior EnviroBiomics reporting/customer-service issue.

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Welcome and Setup
01:17 Why Compare Labs
03:33 Experiment Design
04:39 Sampling Strategy
07:22 Undercover Customer Mode
08:48 Results Big Score Gaps
11:44 What It Means
14:18 Practical Takeaways
15:26 Reading Species Profiles
21:58 Advice for This Home
25:45 Lab Pros Cons and Costs
35:53 Final Wrap Up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara welcomes Dr. Kellyn Milani, a naturopathic doctor and primary care physician specializing in complex environmentally acquired illnesses, to discuss tick-borne illness in the context of CIRS aka mold illness. Dr. Milani explains that tick-borne disease is a major trigger for CIRS, emphasizes Lyme occurs in all 50 states, and outlines why testing is limited and Lyme is primarily a clinical diagnosis. She reviews symptom patterns that raise suspicion for Lyme and common co-infections (including Babesia, Bartonella, Anaplasma, Ehrlichia, tick-borne relapsing fever, and Rocky Mountain spotted fever), offers practical guidance for tick removal and testing, and discusses treatment sequencing with the Shoemaker protocol, typical chronic treatment timelines, and managing intensification reactions. She also shares her approach using pulsed antibiotics, herbs, biofilm support, and foundational anti-inflammatory and lifestyle prep, plus ways to connect with her via social platforms, her Skool community, and her clinic wait list.

THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, please consult your own practitioner or work with Dr. Milani for your specific health concerns.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
01:37 Why tick-borne illness matters
02:59 When to consider tick-borne testing
06:00 Testing and clinical diagnosis
08:50 Key symptoms to watch for in Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, etc.
15:39 Timing of treatment
18:42 Treatment strategies: antibiotics, herbals, biofilm busting
23:06 How long treatment can take
26:58 Symptom flares and prep tips
33:08 Supportive activities
35:52 How to Work With Dr. Milani
39:50 Outro

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Dr. Milani's instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drkellynmilani/
Dr. Milani's Skool community: https://www.skool.com/drkellyn/
Dr. Milani's website (join her waitlist): https://remedynaturalhealth.com/

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

On today's episode of The CIRS Group Podcast, Barbara shares a health update. She reports a smoother-than-expected recovery from an August 2025 L5-S1 PLIF spinal fusion, major symptom improvements after going gluten- and dairy-free, adding gut supplements, and tracking with stool testing. She began tick-borne treatment with a specialist using pulsed antibiotics plus biofilm support and albendazole, noting microbiome changes and a post-treatment drop in MSH while continuing low-dose binders and passing the VCS.

Ongoing issues include stubborn MARCoNS and sinus imbalance (multiple rinses/sprays, EDTA+silver side effects, considering ENT evaluation, sleep study, and possibly nebulized treatment). She discusses hormone testing (DUTCH/bloodwork), fibroids/adenomyosis management with oral progesterone, low-dose morning hydrocortisone, and starting testosterone cream. Barbara also covers difficult EMDR therapy attempts, learning shutdown vs fight/flight in Jacie’s nervous system cohort, and supportive care like acupuncture and NUCCA chiropractic. In the next update, she'll cover upcoming labs, retesting results, actino cleaning, and possible iron infusions. She also adds a couple exciting personal life updates: getting married and adopting a puppy!

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro and medical disclaimer
01:11 Spinal fusion recovery
02:02 Gut changes and diet
04:09 Tick Borne treatment
06:34 Why the Shoemaker Protocol didn't work on it's own
08:59 Grief and autoimmune flare
10:20 Upcoming labwork
11:19 MARCoNS sinus battle
13:25 Sleep Study and ENT appointment
15:43 Hormone testing
17:57 Fibroids, progesterone, and cortisol support
21:39 Testosterone treatment and cautions
23:18 Therapy: EMDR fails and incorporation of nicotine
26:13 Shutdown: nervous system regulation tools
31:30 Acupuncture and NUCCA chiropractic adjustments
33:19 TLDR - What's working and what's not
36:15 Happy life updates!
37:40 Future podcast guests and group events

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

HELPFUL LINKS:
Jacie's recent health update: https://youtu.be/pGBCx3fwxMk?si=3e8YQzhZdG3bMv43
Barbara's last health update: https://youtu.be/IkcKvfcIIdA?si=1QdRUeqBYIAWI0JS
Our hormone episode: https://youtu.be/OStNHRNffqw?si=9cLRWroxRmiwfacQ
Learn more about Jacie's nervous system resources: https://builttoregulate.com/

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this The CIRS Group Podcast episode, hosts Jacie and Barbara interview Max McCord, an indoor environmental professional and president of the Stonecrest Team, about why mold remediation projects can fail even after visible mold is removed. Max explains that the biggest misses are often hidden, hard-to-see species like whitish Aspergillus, and that relying on basic air sampling can wrongly suggest a home is “clear,” while PCR-based testing, such as ERMI dust tests, can reveal what was missed.

He describes using detailed building history, CIRS-focused building science, macro photography, and advanced thermography to identify microclimates, insulation and vapor issues, and other hidden sources. The conversation also covers common containment and demolition mistakes that spread contamination, why coordination among IEPs, remediators, HVAC and insulation contractors matters, and how post-remediation “clearance” can be undone during remodeling by contaminated tools and materials. Max shares his personal CIRS diagnosis and his work with Christian Medical Ministries. Check out https://www.stonecrest.team and https://www.christianmedicalministries.org to learn more.

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro - meet Max McCord
03:20 Why remediation fails
07:46 Tools to detect hidden mold
13:09 Teamwork between IEPs, remediators and contractors
16:28 Containment done right
20:22 Tips to make sure things are done correctly
26:52 Max shares his own CIRS diagnosis
31:02 Ministry and Resources
34:15 Wrap Up and Next Steps

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS:
Work with Max McCord: https://www.stonecrest.team/
Christian Medical Ministries: https://www.christianmedicalministries.org/our-board

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Jacie and Barbara share some suggestions for a “CIRS starter pack” inspired by their community: a menu of practical, non-medical supports to help CIRS patients feel better while waiting to see a provider and pursuing root-cause treatment. They cover environmental steps like using an Air Oasis air purifier and improving cleaning/laundry and bedding routines, plus daily hygiene tools like acidifying body wash. They discuss sleep basics (consistent schedule, morning light for MSH, and optimizing light/sound/temperature), hydration and electrolytes for ADH/osmolality issues, nutrition with adequate calories and protein, and the importance of daily bowel movements for binder-based toxin elimination. Gut support includes going gluten-free, ProButyrate, prebiotics (Sunfiber, HMO, beans/edamame), and probiotics (Probiotic Pro, Florastor). They also address slow, titrated movement, recovery tools (sauna, red light, Epsom baths/magnesium spray), nervous system regulation and supportive community, histamine/mast cell strategies (Zyrtec, cromolyn nasal spray, DAO, HistaAid), as well as their own personal starter-pack essentials. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro and disclaimer
01:14 How to use this menu
02:19 Disclaimer
02:58 Environment hacks
08:12 Sleep routine and tips
11:44 Hydration and electrolytes
13:09 Nutrition and diet
15:54 Poop!
17:19 Gut Support: gluten free diet, supplements, beans
21:23 Movement and recovery
24:20 Community
26:46 Nervous System Regulation
31:19 Histamine and mast cell support
32:28 Suggested supplement starter stack
33:48 Feel better while healing (or waiting to heal)
36:09 Jacie and Barbara's personal Starter Packs
39:16 Wrap Up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS MENTIONED:
Air Oasis filter: https://www.airoasis.com/
Our insomnia episode: https://youtu.be/1Qj2XRDurUs?si=DnK1wfUBJKqjbbmF
Our Dr. Lacey interview: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=_s1jQ3_rNQHTF22S
Jacie's Nervous System Resources: https://builttoregulate.com/

CIRS communities:
The CIRS Group: https://thecirsgroup.com
CIRSLab: https://www.cirslab.com/
CIRS Healing Collective: https://simplifiedwellnessdesigns.com/cirs-healing-collective

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie discuss insomnia as a common CIRS symptom, explaining that CIRS (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) can occur in genetically predisposed people exposed to biotoxins like mold, algae blooms, or venomous spider bites, leading to chronic inflammation, cytokine activity, low MSH, and downstream disruption of melatonin, cortisol, and other hormones. They share ways to improve falling asleep (morning sunlight, dim evening lighting, low-dose melatonin, bedtime grounding routines, time-boxing bed use, and acupuncture) and staying asleep (addressing nighttime blood sugar drops with a protein/fat or protein/fiber snack, and managing nocturia from ADH/osmolality dysregulation with electrolytes, fluid timing, and pre-bed bathroom trips). They also cover unrefreshing sleep, sleep environment optimization, hormone testing (including DUTCH panels), and supplements and supports they use, including magnesium, L-theanine, glycine, and KPV, emphasizing practitioner guidance and treating CIRS as the root cause. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Sleep: intro and disclaimer
00:45 What Is CIRS?
02:01 Low MSH and poor sleep connection
03:51 Circadian rhythm resets
05:55 Lighting to support sleep
06:23 Melatonin Done Right
06:46 Anxiety disrupting sleep (cell danger response)
08:37 Benefits of acupuncture
10:09 Why you have trouble staying asleep
11:00 Tips to stabilize your blood sugar
11:53 Nocturia (needing to pee in the middle of the night)
14:00 Unrefreshing Sleep: tips and tricks
15:40 Hormones and Testing
18:33 Personal Sleep Stacks
20:48 Ashwagandha Nightshade PSA
21:31 KPV for Low MSH
22:27 Wrap Up and Next Steps

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Our episode on what CIRS is: https://youtu.be/eqso4R0cQhg?si=9klrfHeuyKGfUJ4n

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this CIRS Group Podcast episode, hosts Jacie and Barbara interview Brian Tinker, founder of Breathe Well Homes and a master builder with 30+ years of experience, whose work became personal after his wife’s CIRS diagnosis revealed their home’s role in her illness. Brian explains how moisture control is the core issue behind mold problems and why modern “tighter” energy codes can create sick homes without proper ventilation. He highlights common high-risk materials and methods (e.g., OSB, MDF, spray foam off-gassing, flex ducting, traditional grout), shares practical strategies for moisture management, wall assemblies that can dry, and using ERV/HRV systems to keep homes breathing. He discusses cost increases (about 35–45%), his course and consultations, remote build guidance, and his newer Breathe Well Vans concept, plus interest in manufactured homes for faster, lower-cost options. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Timestamps

00:00 Intro and disclaimer
02:00 Brian’s CIRS-aware home building journey
04:52 Why modern homes are so prone to getting mold
07:34 Common building materials that promote mold and trigger CIRS
10:58 Brian's opinion of the best era for older homes
13:14 Moisture management for the modern home
17:19 Is there a compromise between energy efficiency and clean air?
21:40 What is a passive house?
23:39 The cost of building a CIRS-aware home
28:32 The Breathe Well Homes mission, and vans!
35:05 Post-interview wrap up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Brian's website: https://breathewellhomes.com/
Breathe Well Vans: https://www.instagram.com/breathewellvans

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie are back, this time to share Jacie’s personal health update while she deals with a CIRS relapse after moving into a new apartment. Jacie describes worsening histamine flares, a return of autoimmune symptoms like uveitis, and home testing that showed borderline endotoxins (100), and extremely high actinos (6 million). This prompted a small-particle cleaning and skin/environment retesting that suggested her boyfriend’s microbes were contributing. While waiting to see CIRS clinician Dr. Andrea Jordheim, Jacie used an AIP diet, curcumin, astaxanthin, acupuncture, and a vibration plate to feel better. She reviews her extensive testing results (GI, infections, metabolomics, sinus, spike protein), her boyfriend’s gut results (high Campylobacter, low Akkermansia), her dysbiotic gut findings and leaky-gut indicators, a very high spike protein result (23,000 vs 0.08), and next steps including fasting, nattokinase, quercetin, methylation and genetic testing. In her next update, she’ll share MARCoNS and water testing (for uranium) results. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro and disclaimer
01:06 Surprise puppy Story
02:20 Jacie's CIRS relapse
03:27 Histamine flares and uveitis
04:41 Home dust tests and skin tests to check for exposure
06:22 Feel better while waiting for your doctor: nutrition and supplements
07:44 Acupuncture and vibration plate
09:54 Doctor appointment and labwork
12:02 All the tests!
14:29 Working with Dr. Andrea Jordheim
15:55 Jacie's boyfriend's gut results
16:50 Jacie's GI dysbiosis findings
19:55 Spike protein test results and FLCCC protocol
22:17 Remaining tests
23:00 Concerning uranium levels in water
24:07 Minerals and methylation
26:16 Difficulty using carbs for fuel
29:06 Celiac genes, staying gluten free
31:46 High MPO may indicate endotoxins
33:05 Hormones, methylation, and hydration
34:38 Next testing, and supplements prioritized
36:10 The importance of collaborative care with your doctor
38:56 Wrap up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Work with Dr. Andrea Jordheim: https://mytransformationwellness.com/
Our interview with Dr. Lacey Venanzi: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=2HQ43ju_lV7PwC3w
Celiac blood test: https://www.rupahealth.com/lab-tests/cyrex-array-3x

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this final CIRSx 2026 recap, Jacie and Barbara cover the conference’s lifestyle-focused talks and share takeaways for listeners. They highlight Mike Pelletier's practical strategies to accelerate CIRS recovery, including prioritizing sleep (consistent bedtime/wake time, cool room, morning light, lowering bedroom CO2, reducing nocturia by shifting fluid intake earlier, and improving nasal breathing), plus frequent “exercise snacks,” movement, and whole-food nutrition. They discuss Lauren Loewenstein's talk on sharing CIRS stories via social media and how coaches can bridge patients, physicians, and remediation teams. They also cover Dr. Hamid's talk on acupuncture as an adjunct for anxiety and autonomic dysregulation, including self-regulation tools like breathing and HRV training. They summarize Dr. Craig Tanio’s Aventhea Trial emphasizing multi-root-cause precision medicine and prevention. Finally, they recap interior designer Kaleigh Concannon's talk on creating low-tox homes, noting challenges with foam/off-gassing in mattresses and couches and focusing on practical risk reduction over perfection. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Timestamps
00:00 Intro and disclaimer
01:40 Mike Pelletier's lifestyle tips
03:54 Sleep Optimization Tips: sleep, sunlight, lower CO2
06:52 Mouth Taping Debate
08:40 Exercise snacks, temperature, bedding, UV index, movement
14:28 Lauren Lowenstein: leveraging social media to share your story
18:44 Dr. Ilyas Hamid: acupuncture for nervous system regulation
25:52 Dr. Craig Tanio's research on reversing neurodegeneration
29:24 Kaleigh Concannon: low toxicity home design
33:52 Final Thoughts

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Reach out to Mike Pelletier to work with him: mike@thrivalhealth.com
Collagen infused mouth tape: https://taped.co/products/mt?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23832672398&gbraid=0AAAABBabV6YK8NK1i2DgtSefZ-Zp7G17B&gclid=CjwKCAjwpqHTBhAcEiwAj2AfuhpIoyBoY6Nl5w2f6VNNrw8O9yqsQVCh0s3ogzbeuHjKseVQ-C83JhoCU1MQAvD_BwE
Weird chin strap thing (may or may not work lol): https://www.amazon.com/facelift-compression-garment/s?k=facelift+compression+garment
Lauren's instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebiotoxinlady
Jacie's favorite Qi Gong video: https://youtu.be/onA4pogScVg?is=Shg-9oM-_C7onpwW
Dr. Ilyas Hamid's website: https://acuhollywood.com/
Dr. Craig Tanio's website: https://www.rezilirhealth.com/doctors/craig-p-tanio/
Sign up to Kaleigh's low tox newsletter: https://www.uniquelyyoudecor.com/newsletter

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie continue their CIRSx 2026 recap with the medical talks, emphasizing that the episode should not be considered medical advice and encouraging listeners to consult their own CIRS practitioners. They summarize Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker’s talk on “triple positives” on GENIE (AKT, RELA, tubulin) as an early risk pattern for neurodegeneration including Parkinson’s, highlighting the promise of early intervention. Dr. Lacey Venanzi focused on gut-driven inflammation in CIRS via LPS, dysbiosis, permeability tied to low MSH, and discussed preferred microbiome testing. Dr. Kellen Milani shared a stalking experience and the need for practitioner boundaries. Louise Carter reviewed GENIE/HLA patterns, suggesting CIRS subtypes and vascular dysregulation. Dr. Eric Dorninger covered step five of the Shoemaker Protocol: androgen correction, especially DHEA, plus additional testing options like DUTCH. Dr. Scott McMahon critiqued overly broad test interpretation. Dr. Oseni discussed pulmonary manifestations of CIRS and spirometry, noting TGF-beta1 and fibrosis. Dr. Peg DiTulio reviews MARCoNS treatment data, maintenance strategies to prevent recolonization, and when to consider ENT/dental issues. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro and disclaimer
01:00 Dr. Shoemaker on Triple Positives
03:34 Dr. Lacey Venanzi: Gut Endotoxins and Actinos
10:03 Dr. Milani: her story of being stalked by a patient
15:58 Louise Carder's talk on GENIE subtypes
20:46 Dr. Eric Dorninger's hormone support talk
24:52 Dr. Scott McMahon on proper medical terms
32:18 Dr. Oseni on testing lung capacity
35:57 Dr. Peg DiTullio: lessons from treating MARCoNs
42:59 Wrap Up Next Episode

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS:
Dr. Lacey Venanzi's website: https://www.drlacey.org/
Our interview with Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=A4SrJ6tmY_zr1u53
Dr. Lacey's new podcast with Dr. Christian: https://www.coherencedx.com/
Dr. Kellyn Milani's website: https://remedynaturalhealth.com/
Louise Carder's website (for UK based patients): https://www.colabeu.com/
Dr. Eric Dorninger's website: https://drdorninger.com/
Our interview with Dr. Anjali Noble about hormones and menopause: https://youtu.be/OStNHRNffqw?si=PUfXfmfcAoVbvFR1
Our episode on urinary mycotoxin tests: https://youtu.be/qWIIBaMybFA?si=5yoXqYTGvDSC6YG6
Our interview with Dr. Peg re: tick borne illness: https://youtu.be/czSjykCdOR4?si=P-oePTLGCG-ujip6
Dr. Peg DiTulio's website: https://regenixhealing.com/
Our episode all about MARCoNs: https://youtu.be/wOSmKcZr06s?si=7s7wJKQQa7EidDel

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie kick off their annual CIRSx 2026 Conference recap series, focusing this episode on remediation and environmental talks, with a reminder to consult an indoor environmental professional (IEP) for climate-specific guidance. They summarize key presentations: Bill Weber and Christine Semabeu on prevention-first building and homeowner maintenance (leak management, access panels, alarms, early mechanical planning, and the book “Mold Controlled” by John Banta); contractor Brian Tinker on why building code isn’t sufficient for “medically clean homes,” the need to budget for mold-safer materials, identify dust reservoirs, and validate with testing throughout construction; forensic engineer Joe Lstiburek’s moisture-management building science emphasizing drying potential and prioritizing people/building health over energy efficiency; Air Oasis updates including a planned 2027 model with requested features and current 2.0 model features; Max McCord on using thermal imaging to find hidden moisture; Osman Zelaya on making inspection reports function like construction blueprints through clearer communication; and Jack Getz’s case study building an 800 sq ft CIRS-friendly home over a garage with detailed design choices and costs. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro and disclaimer
01:40 Bill Weber and Christine Cimabue: Prevention is better than remediation
07:00 Brian Tinker: building beyond code
12:03 Joseph Lstiburek - Building Science Masterclass: Don't do stupid things
16:07 Brad Baxter, COO of Air Oasis: new model in 2027
21:17 Max McCord: finding hidden moisture
24:51 Osmin Zelaya: better inspection reports - better communication
28:06 CIRS Friendly Home Case Study
35:09 Key Takeaways and Wrap Up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS:
Bill Weber's website: https://avelar.net/articles_publications/team/bill-weber/
Christine Cimabue's website: https://byholistichomes.com/
John Banta's book, Mold Controlled: https://www.johncbanta.com/publications
Brian Tinker's website: https://breathewellhomes.com/
Joseph Lstiburek's website: https://buildingscience.com/users/jlstiburek
Air Oasis air filters: https://www.airoasis.com/
Max McCord's website: https://www.stonecrest.team/
Osmin Zelaya's website: https://medviro.com/Leadership
John Goetz's recommendation for people interested in building their own CIRS safe home: https://buildshownetwork.com/

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie share “hot takes” after CIRSx 2026 in Fort Lauderdale. Barbara attended in person and Jacie watched virtually. They discuss feeling “weird vibes” and a more corporate yet conflicted identity, with misalignment about whether the conference is for providers, patients, or remediators, and concerns about limited innovation within the Shoemaker community. They encourage practitioners to seek innovation through CIRS Lab and mention Dr. Lacey Venanzi and Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres’ work. They highlight standout talks from Brian Tinker on safe homes, Dr. Venanzi on endotoxemia/actinos in the gut, Mike Pelletier on patient lifestyle changes, Dr. Kellyn Milani on being stalked by a patient, Louise Carter on GENIE patterns, Jack Goetz on building a CIRS-conscious home, and Kayleigh Concannon on low-tox furnishings, while noting many other talks felt unhelpful and lacking actionable takeaways.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro: CIRSx
01:11 Hot Takes explained
03:25 Medical Disclaimer
03:48 Weird Conference Vibes
06:30 Who is CIRSx for?
07:57 Innovation beyond Shoemaker
10:56 Gatekeeping and publishing pressure
14:53 Tell me why I'm watching this
18:22 Standout talks and teasers
30:00 Up next!

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
If you're a health coach or practitioner in the CIRS space, join the practitioner membership at https://www.cirslab.com/
Our recent episode with Dr. Christian and Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/7H6CKEhIMSU?si=Dr18_Gg8fpZfkKsh
Dr. Christian and Dr. Lacey's new podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@CoherenceDX

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this The CIRS Group Podcast episode, Jacie and Barbara explain MARCoNS (multiple antibiotic resistant coagulase-negative staphylococci) as a common deep nasal colonization in CIRS patients and why it’s addressed as step three in the Shoemaker Protocol (after leaving exposure and using binders). They discuss how MARCoNS may perpetuate inflammation and low MSH, what symptoms can look like, and how to test via a deep nasal swab (ordered from MicrobiologyDX). They review Shoemaker-style treatments such as EDTA with silver, BEG spray, plus alternatives like xylitol sprays, ozone, red light therapy, and propolis sprays, along with titration and irritation considerations. They also cover why MARCoNS can recur (ongoing exposure, incomplete eradication, pets, personal items), debate whether MARCoNS is cause vs result, and mention broader nasal testing (MicroGenDX Sinus Key) and evolving approaches beyond the patented Shoemaker Protocol. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
01:31 What MARCoNS Means
02:41 Colonization vs Infection
03:30 Why you should care about MARCoNs
05:56 MARCoNs Symptoms
09:29 Timing your treatment for MARCoNs
10:41 Testing technique
14:32 How to understand your test results
15:55 Shoemaker-endorsed treatment for MARCoNs
20:37 Other options for treatment
28:58 Why do MARCoNs take hold, and why does it keep it from coming back
32:11 Do MARCoNS really matter?
34:49 Beyond MARCoNS sinus testing
36:40 The next frontier of sinus testing and treatment

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Order your own MARCoNs test: https://www.microbiologydx.com/order-collection-kits
Our interview with Dr. Andrew Heyman: https://youtu.be/WwTRQTuUeC8?si=3HfIk0fE7OCCygj6
The CIRS Summit (to view Christian's talk on nasal treatments): https://cirs-summit-2025.heysummit.com/talks/how-the-latest-nasal-swab-testing-can-help-you-heal/
Order your own SinusKey test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskey

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

On this episode of The CIRS Group podcast, hosts Jacie and Barbara interview Dr. Andrew Heyman about Dr. Naviaux’s cell danger response (CDR) framework and why it can explain stalled recoveries in chronic mold-related illness and CIRS. Heyman describes how mitochondrial “danger mode” drives three phases: initial inflammation (innate immune activation), rebuilding via aerobic glycolysis, and reintegration requiring “all clear” signals like VIP, which positions CIRS as a subset of CDR. He emphasizes total toxic load (mold/biotoxins plus chemicals, metals, infections, gut-derived endotoxins, physical trauma, and emotional trauma), and discusses the neuroendocrine-immune axis (VIP, MSH, PACAP) and autonomic/vagal tone as key to recovery. He outlines his BeyondMold.com five-phase clinical program: environment/binders and chemical detox support, pathogen work, gut optimization, metabolic/hormone rebuilding with nervous system support, and a final readiness-to-heal/phenotyping phase using targeted safety signals (including VIP forms).

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro to Dr. Andrew Heyman
02:38 What Is Cell Danger Response?
06:38 CIRS in the context of Cell Danger Response: changing gene expression
12:18 The role of total toxic load and co-infections
16:52 How the nervous system is affected by Cell Danger Response
22:27 Why having a solid practitioner in your corner is so important
23:56 The limitations of CIRS diagnostic testing
28:47 Beyond Mold framework for healing in five phases
37:18 Are you ready to heal?
46:16 Advice for stalled patients
51:14 How to work with Dr. Heyman and Beyond Mold

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

WORK WITH DR. HEYMAN: https://beyondmold.com/
Dr. Heyman Q&A mentioned in the outro: https://www.youtube.com/live/EWoki09eHhk

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie wrap up their five-part Shoemaker Protocol series with Phase 5: Repair and Restore. This phase focuses on normalizing innate immune markers (MMP-9, C3a, C4a, and TGFb1) and restoring brain volume. They explain that low-starch/gluten-free diet helps bring down MMP-9, while persistently elevated C3a/C4a or TGFb1 often signal ongoing exposure, gut issues, tick-borne illness, or dental cavitations. The episode culminates with VIP (vasoactive intestinal peptide) nasal spray (the most anticipated step of the entire protocol!) which supports anti-inflammatory pathways, neurological function, and brain volume restoration over 6–12 months.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction: Phase Five
01:24 Medical Disclaimer
01:55 Innate Immune Markers and VIP Nasal Spray
02:50 Understanding MMP-9
05:14 C3a and C4a Markers
07:20 TGFb1
08:18 VIP Spray Treatment
10:34 Closing Thoughts

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this CIRS Group Podcast episode, Jacie and Barbara cover phase four of the Shoemaker Protocol, focused on restoring normal metabolic function after biotoxin elimination. They explain that this phase may include supporting detox pathways for “normal” toxins and heavy metals (e.g., daily bowel movements, B vitamins, methylation support, sauna or hot baths, lymphatic techniques, and using binders like charcoal or clay for inorganic toxins), addressing androgen/sex hormone imbalance linked to low MSH (including signs of low testosterone or estrogen dominance, supplementing DHEA), and correcting fluid/electrolyte balance via ADH regulation (symptoms like thirst, frequent urination, nocturia, and static shocks). They discuss electrolyte options, a DIY recipe, and provider-monitored desmopressin if needed, and note this phase can also involve investigating other lingering issues or co-infections before moving to phase five. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Welcome to Phase Four
01:00 The purpose of repairing damage done by CIRS
03:14 Detox Pathways basics
05:33 Binders for heavy metals
07:05 Androgen & hormone balance
09:40 Fluid and Electrolyte Issues: ADH/Osmolality
12:21 Electrolyte options
14:12 Desmopressin reset explained
15:41 Tidying up and co-infections
17:22 Next Phase and wrap up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Electrolyte caps Barbara uses: https://redmond.life/products/re-lyte-hydration-support-plus-caps
LMNT Recipe (check FAQ): https://drinklmnt.com/pages/ingredients

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Struggling with stubborn biotoxin illness (CIRS) and feeling stuck in your recovery? In this episode, we break down some of the most important (and often overlooked) steps in the Shoemaker Protocol, including binders, MARCoNS treatment, and gut support. Learn how binders like cholestyramine and Welchol work differently to remove biotoxins, why the wrong detox approach can trigger setbacks, and how to track your progress with tools like the Visual Contrast Sensitivity (VCS) test. We also dive into MARCoNS: why it's so common in CIRS patients, how it impacts MSH and overall health, and the treatment options available, from prescription nasal sprays to over-the-counter approaches. Plus, we discuss biofilms, reinfection risks, pet testing, and practical strategies for breaking the cycle. Whether you're just getting started or looking to optimize your treatment plan, this episode will help you better understand the next critical steps in recovering from CIRS and mold-related illness. None of this is medical advice: always consult your CIRS practitioner for what treatment is right for you.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Introduction & Recap
02:54 - Why phase three is the most anticipated part of recovery
03:26 - The most effective binders for detoxification: Cholestyramine and Welchol
06:00 - Over-the-counter binder options: Mycobind and Chitosan
07:05 - The importance of using the correctly charged binders
09:21 - Visual Contrast Sensitivity test: tracking biotoxin effects
13:00 - Treating MARCoNs: nasal testing, nasal sprays, and herbal options
14:15 - Cycle of MARCoNs and MSH depletion
16:19 - Nasal testing resources and nasal spray treatments (EDTA, BEG spray, X Lear)
17:35 - Testing the nasal biome with Sinus Key
19:14 - Impact of diet, microbiome, and specific food sensitivities on gut healing
25:14 - Supporting detox through bowel movements with magnesium
26:26 - The importance of sequencing treatment steps for optimum results
27:23 - Encouragement to stay on track, subscribe, and support the channel

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Our Binders episode: https://youtu.be/KAQfLXuPjFI?si=TcJo-YDEjVLNInqW
Visual Contrast Sensitivity (VCS) test options:
https://www.vcstest.com/
https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screening
https://beyondmold.com/product/visual-contrast-sensitivity-test/
MARCoNs test: https://www.microbiologydx.com/order-collection-kits
SinusKey test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskey
Actinos episode where we reference the SinusKey: https://youtu.be/2rCXhUP6dbY?si=MBT7_esd0edmfhCX
Dr. Christian Navarro Torres' website to book a consult: https://www.cirslab.com/
Dr. Andrea Jordheim's website to work with her: https://mytransformationwellness.com/
Our interview with Dr. Lacey Venanzi: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=wExZGivhkEALSR4O
Our second interview with Dr. Lacey: https://youtu.be/7H6CKEhIMSU?si=WrMPttnfyRq2aMvC
Dr. Lacey's website to work with her: https://www.drlacey.org/

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group:
Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources:
Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory
Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching:
Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.